Priced Out

[edhopper]

It's how I feel about everything more and more.
I live in NY, we are priced out of buying anything and soon might be priced out of renting.
And that pretty much goes for the NE Coast from Washington to Boston.
Probably the same for the West Coast.
Moving to a more affordable area only makes sense if there is work there. But this is where my work is, and I like where I live.
I get the sense that that is how it is for more and more Americans, priced out of a good place to live, a nice vacation, a nice meal out, etc..
The Country looks more and more like a place for and about the 1%.
Am I just myopic about my situation, or is this going to be the norm?

[IcyPeas]

1. a similar thread on this topic

renters being evicted so investors can build million dollar condos on the property:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026876857

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Beverly-Grove-Residents-Plan-to-Protest-Eviction-Ellis-Act-305281501.html

[abelenkpe]

53. It's crazy in this area

So many elderly folks on fixed incomes have been forced out. It's sad. Not just the apartment buildings either. Many mansions that take up every square foot of the lot have been replacing 1930s Spanish style 2 and 3 bedroom homes. They then end up bought by investors who rent them out for insane amounts of money.

[dixiegrrrrl]

141. If by "this area" you mean Cal. or the SW

Those rentals are gonna dry up...literally.
Already the water issue is causing real estate problems in Cal.

[abelenkpe]

162. Certainly seems likely should the drought persist.

Have you seen any news of this though?

I do remember the last big quake discouraging buying as well. We are due for another. Plus drought....not a good mix.

Thing that kills me about all the new building is they aren't energy efficient at all. New construction should take advantage of solar, build to naturally heat and cool. Instead the mansions going up are high ceilinged boxes with walls of glass facing west. It's like the designers are completely oblivious to the environment they're building in.

[dixiegrrrrl]

163. There was post here on DU

that linked to a news story about how the wealthy in Ranchero something or the other down in S. Cal. were reacting to water restrictions. Hint: not at all well.
And in the story it mentioned that the drought was affecting sales of homes.
Which does make sense...houses are expensive out there, and who wants a hassle over water use?

[mahina]

154. Maybe it's not all where, but how we live. Intentional communities, self-organized groups

created not to profit a developer, but support a community, seems like a good idea to explore.

Since so many of us are getting older and don't want to live completely alone:
http://www.ic.org/directory/

[AllTooEasy]

161. Well, Get the HELL out of NYC! And the rest of the East Coast.

NYC sucks. I left that concrete prison 22 years ago to live in Phoenix, and never considered returning. I go back to see family during the holidays, but they learned real quick not to insult my intelligence with questions like "So when are you coming back home?". I am home.

I've had twice the fun for half the price. I own a 5 bedroom, 3 bath house, 3 car garage house in a major metropolitan city with all the sports teams and great weather 9 months out the year...and I don't have to make 6 figures to do it. NYC's weather is CRAP 9 months of the year, and NYCers are 1/10th as hospitable. None of my ex-NYCer friends from school, work(Manhattan), or around the way(Brooklyn) miss that effing place. As for your work, unless it's theater related, you can find the same work somewhere else. Don't buy into the BS that NYC is America's "Land the Opportunity"...like 10 million other idiots you and I know. In fact, outside employers will be more motivated to hire you after learning that you work/worked in NYC...as if you must be the cream of the crop to work in grand NYC. It's insanely stupid, but it's benefited me, so I'm not complaining.

Don't fall into that myth that NYC is EVERYTHING...that you're SOOOOO blessed to be there. Don't just look towards the West Coast either. Phx, Dallas, San Antonio, DENVER, Charlotte, AUSTIN, Ft. Lauderdale, TAMPA, Atlanta, and anywhere else in the South if you are White and Straight are superior(weather, lifestyle, cleanliness, traffic, friendliness) and affordable places.

If you're adventurous, US citizens can obtain visas to work in Australia and New Zealand. THAAAAT'S where you should go!

I'm sorry, but I can't feel sad for people who cry about the living in East Coast cities when there are so many BETTER options. GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE! Get on the bus now! Catch the next flight to Australia! GO!

[CTyankee]

2. I don't know how my son and dtr in law manage in Manhattan...

they are in a 2 BR co-op in the lower east side, raising my adorable 2 yr. old grandson, and he is a prosecutor in the Brooklyn DA's office and she is a book editor working from home. He's got good benefits and a good, not extravagant, salary. Day care for the little one is coming and that will be a better deal than a part time nanny.

It's hard for a family to make it in NY or lots of places in the NE. But it's no better in Los Angeles. My dtr there is having a very hard time finding a job. Her husband is a musician working full time at both playing and teaching. But costs are brutal there, too...

[Cleita]

3. I'm on the West Coast and have to get by on SS.

The cost of living has far outpaced the COLAs on SS. I'm actually hoping I don't live to a ripe old age because I have no more budget adjustments I can make.

[edhopper]

6. I feel for you.

[Cleita]

91. See my post # 90

[daleanime]

39. ......

[Cleita]

92. See my post #90.

[DJ13]

84. My wife and I are in the same situation

[Cleita]

90. This is why Bernie Sanders is not just a comic candidate like the

media and Hillary supporters try to paint him. He has clearly spelled out the need to give recipients of SS a big boost in payments. He has told the truth that the fund has trillions of dollars in it and this can happen tomorrow almost. Making up for any deficits is making very rich people pay into it a lot more. This is how desperate many of us are. Bernie is the only politician who has spoken about this for years. Sure, maybe Hillary will get around to it, but she hasn't spoken about it for years.

[heaven05]

158. truth

[dixiegrrrrl]

142. OH man, I hear you so clearly.

When Mr. Dixie and I were in SF, planning our retirement on our future budget, it became obvious we could not afford to live in the state.
Nor on the West Coast or the SW.
Luckily, I had lived here in Ala. for many years and knew what the cost of living was, so we moved back to the lil
town I had left when I went out to Cal.
Costs are about 1/3 of the West Coast, seniors who own their homes pay zero property taxes, which are already laughably low.
Not an easy decision when your families are on the West Coast.

[heaven05]

150. I'm in the midwest

on SS. I eat, everyday, one good meal and try to eat apples and bananas, oranges, yogurt, slices of bread to pad out my day. I usually have to borrow before the end of the month and that further exacerbates my financial inadequacy. COLA is a fucking JOKE!!!!!

[Cleita]

153. I find that problem too, putting grocery purchases at the end of the month on a

credit card. If I have a catastrophic incident like an unexpected car repair, it really sets me behind. My CC balances are getting larger as I can only pay the minimum.

[heaven05]

156. Yep, I have pets

I'm deep in the hole to a good vet, but I still owe. I know about those unexpected emergencies. I just hope I can keep a roof over my and my pets head. Need tires, can't afford them. It just goes on and on. I do feel you

[Cleita]

157. We're in it altogether. I hope Bernie will be able to get that raise through

for us that he's trying to do, whether or not he gets to be President. And I mean for everyone who responded to my post who are in the same boat.

[davidn3600]

4. That's what happens when you have stagnant wages and everything else increases

And the way our politicians in Washington act, they don't care.....especially the Democrats that support the TPP. Corporations are far more important than people.

[edhopper]

7. Yes

wage stagnation is a big part.
I make less in actual dollars than I did 20 years ago.

[laundry_queen]

96. Same here, and I have a degree now (and didn't back then)

What baffles me is I have heard many investors on tv, economic gurus and so on, proclaim that wage stagnation is a huge problem and could bring the economy down. THEY seem to be begging corporations to raise wages. However this has been a problem for so long, I'm not sure how they could possibly catch up. I make now what my mom made as a secretary 30 years ago. My wages would have to more than double to put me on par with where she was at that time. Plus housing around here has more than quadrupled since that time, so even then I wouldn't have caught up. It feels totally pointless and hopeless.

[awoke_in_2003]

139. Yep. Every year I work my tail off

and get excellent reviews. Every year I get a 3% increase. That doesn't begin to keep up. Hell, I am getting price out of rib eyes- over $12 a pound. Of course I shouldn't complain- many don't get what I do. Like Winston Smith in 1984- you feel like things didn't always used to be this way, but it is hard to point out any proof of that.

[edhopper]

5. There has been lip service about affordable middle class housing here

Bloomberg did close to nothing and pushed for all the new luxury buildings.
Di Blasio is trying, but it will be too little to late.
My rent is 75% of my income some months.

[geek tragedy]

8. We were lucky enough to buy in 2009-2010

in western Crown Heights. There are still some areas where buying is semi-possible but they're mostly in Queens and the Bronx, especially if you need public transportation.

[edhopper]

10. You mean if you DON'T need public transportation

But even here in Queens those places go for near $1/2 million.

And COOPs have maintenance as high as rent sometimes.

[geek tragedy]

12. I meant that if you need public transportation

BK and Manhattan are out of reach.

Coops can have high maintenance though part of that is usually tax deductible.

[edhopper]

13. Okay

Same thing, flip side.

Tax deductions are good if you have the income that needs them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. The way things are

when we retire we will have to move somewhere ELSE. We cannot afford it, period.

It used to be we were in a very affordable city, but not anymore.

Something will have to give.

[SoCalDem]

19. We are selling our 4 br 2 ba here in SoCal and are moving to WA

With what we have saved and what we should net, we can buy a better house with the huge bldg my husband needs for his damned toys & tools and his precious pick up and I can finally get my walk in pantry ..and we can do for next to nothing every month..

We have only SS (his and mine) and a small pension (mine)..

SoCal forever will eat us alive..

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

57. Yes and many of us in Washington are suffering from the same shit

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10824330

[HeiressofBickworth]

97. You must be moving to somewhere other than the Seattle area

Property as you describe it in Seattle is priced out of reach for anyone other than a dual-high-income couple. Eastern Washington isn't so bad, however. I'm fortunate enough to have acquired my house in the 1970's and the mortgage is paid off.

[SoCalDem]

98. Probably Longview/Kelso area

Seattle area is too congested,expensive for us old folks

[dixiegrrrrl]

144. How soon can you sell?

I am reading how the drought is starting to affect real estate prices.

[SoCalDem]

164. Where we are, they are building like crazy and our house would be a bargain

so we should have no trouble selling.. Even with drought, people will still want to live in CA..go figure..

[fizzgig]

11. husband and i are damned near priced out of where we live

college town with a fair number of tech jobs, population around 140k ish when school is in. we're technically lower middle class, but average rent for a two bed is half our monthly income and we can't even get a reasonably-sized one bed at a good price. our place isn't bad and we moved in before rent got really outrageous.

before anyone beats up on us for not just living in a one bed, husband does electronics repair for extra money and records music as a hobby, so we need the space. moving to a one-bed at this point would only increase the rent while decreasing living space.

at this point we can't afford to move to another place in town. we could move out of town, but the extra gas would make it a wash.

[edhopper]

14. No one should beat up on you

you aren't saying you need a mansion, just some extra space.
Something that use to be affordable.

At this point the only States that look affordable are hideous Southern ones, ruled by the racist GOP.
Or unlivable places like the Dakotas.
I can't go there.

[fizzgig]

20. posters here have proclaimed couples don't need two bedrooms

husband and i did 650 square feet for a couple years. it was hard to have any space and it was bad for our marriage.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

29. I tolerated that little space in college.

But hated hearing every single bathroom noise from surrounding apartments, every overly loud party on nights before I had a test the next morning. And pretty much any sort of attempt at creating income streams apart from working elsewhere requires space, if only to store inventory. Want a pet larger than a hamster or a child? You gotta have the space.

[fizzgig]

50. this place was a shit hole all around

it was what we could afford at the time, but it will have to be a disaster before i go to that little space again.

[1939]

130. College dorm life

I lived in a 12 X 20 room with three other guys and a bathroom about 150 feet away. 3 feet of open closet space, 3 feet of bookshelf, and a 12" x 12" locker five foot tall for underwear, socks, and towels.

You don't need a "pad" in college.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

140. I don't think my roughly 5000 books at the time would have fit on your 3 ft shelf.

I seem to recall bookshelves took up most of my space in college. Even having given away over half of them to a charity organization, books take up a heck of a lot of room in my place now.

[SusanCalvin]

30. You need what you need.

There's no reason, except the money being Hoovered upwards, that families now should not be like mine as a child. One lower-middle-class income supported Mom, Dad, and me in a nice house with one car, which was traded in for a new one every two years over my protests because I got attached to them. Yeah, there was more bigotry and I'm glad that has improved, but economically things have gone way downhill for the supposed middle class then compared to now.

[fizzgig]

55. my folks were better off when i was growing up in the 80s than husband and i are now

mom sometimes worked part time, but we we lived in a nice hours and were able to pretty much get by on dad's pay. we had a couple of older cars and vacation meant camping close to home, but you are right in that there is no reason for this to not be the norm.

[SusanCalvin]

65. Yep.

We've been robbed blind for some time. I'm sick of it. I'm for a *maximum* wage. No, maximum *income* - no way some of those people *earn* what they make (off with).

[PasadenaTrudy]

40. NM is nice

I may leave SoCal some day for cheaper NM.

[SheilaT]

44. NM is quite nice.

I live there.

Do NOT believe the b.s. that Santa Fe is only for millionaires. I live there, and trust me I don't have a million dollar place. What I do have is a two bedroom, two bathroom, 3 skylight little townhouse. About 900 square feet. I'm attached on both sides, but have a decent sized back yard. And incredible night skies.

[SusanCalvin]

66. Interesting.

If I may ask, what is the job market like for older people?

[SheilaT]

69. I was 60 when I moved here.

I was able to get work pretty easily, because I was always entry level and I have good basic office skills. Never had a career, had stayed home for 25 years while raising children. I did get a paralegal degree shortly before the divorce that triggered my move here. I got a job in that field, although it was more purely a legal secretary position, and I simply was not good at it, so I was fired. I was also let go after two days at an art gallery. Only times in my life that ever happened.

Then, at the suggestion of a cousin who is a nurse on the east coast, I looked at the one hospital here and was able to get a job doing outpatient registration: people who were there for blood work, x-rays, that sort of thing. For entry level work it paid decently, and the benefits were quite good. I then switched to working the information desk, which was part time: Monday through Friday 4-8pm. Again, with benefits. I left that job a year ago and no longer work.

There is a myth out there that no one over 60, or maybe 50, or possibly 40, ever gets hired. Nonsense. I do understand that if you were in IT for a long time and let go, your chance of getting another IT position is criminally low. That's probably true of other professions I know little about. But work is out there, even for the older worker. I occasionally think I ought to go back and do some temp work, because it's always nice to have a little extra money, but I have never liked a regular day shift job. My first hospital position was noon to 8:30, and then an even later start on the information desk. I could always see about a retail job, because many stores don't open very early, but at the moment I really enjoy not working. Plus I'm doing a lot of travelling, so a job just wouldn't be very convenient.

I can tell you that for several months in late 2008 and early 2009, the temp jobs almost totally dried up, except for accounting or bookkeeping ones. The agencies kept on telling me if I could do that I'd have work. I don't have those skills. It was in that period of no temp jobs that the cousin suggested the hospital.

I slightly wish I'd stayed with temping longer, or had tried harder to get another art gallery job, since this is such a huge art place. One thing that helps is that Santa Fe has a living wage ordinance, and the current minimum is $10.66/hour. As a consequence, a surprising number of people commute from Albuquerque to work here. I think they're nuts, but there's a commuter train, the RailRunner that makes it easier.

Also, this is the state capitol, so at least in theory state jobs are available. In reality, this is a very small city (population 60,00) and about three quarters of them are people whose ancestors came here in 1600 or so, and they are all related to each other, meaning certain jobs, especially in things like the state government, tend to go to a relative. The hospital, while there is some nepotism there, isn't quite as bad as other places.

The tourism aspect of this place colors a lot. Where the tourists are will be very expensive. Plus, we have a bunch of movie stars who live here, full or part time. Gene Hackman, Ali McGraw, and Shirley MacLaine are probably the most notable. A lot of movies are filmed at least partially here, and various TV shows, the most notable being Breaking Bad and Longmire. As a consequence there are jobs in that field, although I'm sure they're hard to get and of course it's on-again off-again work. But Santa Fe Community College has a program for TV/movies, and a lot of the course work is on the technical side, and I'm under the impression they do a good job of placing students and graduates in jobs.

Can't think of anything else at the moment. Hope this is helpful.

SheilaT

[SusanCalvin]

73. Oh wow.

I think I want to move.

To presume even more on your helpfulness, do you happen to know if NM honors/transfers TX teaching certificates?

[SheilaT]

77. Haven't a clue, but here's

a link to the local school district: http://www.sfps.info/

I do have a friend who is 72, officially a retired elementary school teacher who has been doing tutoring of the young ones that last couple of years, and then this past semester, did teach full time. So the teaching jobs are there.

Just have to warn you: depending on grade or subject matter, a lot of the young kids come in speaking very little English, so if you speak Spanish it will be helpful, but not required. Also, the friend tells me, many of them come in unable to count to ten, do not know the alphabet, and it's quite an uphill struggle.

Like any city, there are also some private schools. St Michael's is a Catholic school, and there's Santa Fe Prep which is a secular independent school. And various charter schools.

[SusanCalvin]

79. Oh thank you so much.

I will definitely do further research.

[SheilaT]

80. Good luck to you.

I love living here. I have found it a great place for an older woman to re-invent herself.

If you are someone who does well with organized religion, there are many denominations of many sorts here, including a mosque, a couple of synagogues, and a Sikh temple. Oh, and a Buddhist one also. There is also a very good and strong interfaith cooperation here. They run one of the homeless shelters, and I do volunteer work there.

[NM_Birder]

106. New Mexico is a horrible, desolate, sphincter sucking place..............

it has terrible weather, horrible sunsets, disgusting food, it's over crowded, expensive, there are no jobs, high taxes .... and the weekend grower markets only sell tumbleweed sandwiches and ditchwater coffee.

and...and ...and republicans,..... yeah it's full of republican klan members, human sacrifice, an open market slave trade and Christ ....... there are still people who think you need a passport and shots to visit here.

We once had a tornado that blew a tree down and collapsed a storage shed at the fairgrounds, It snowed so hard once that school was delayed, some on the best back country hiking in the country is constantly ruined by all the wildlife, the world class elk hunting and fly fishing are a constant source of shame.

And finally, all those god damned hippie art shows all over the place, craft shops, street festivals and zoo music nights are enough to make you not want to ski, snowboard, or shop all the mountain hick filled scenic towns of northern Nm.

Save yourselves, ............save your sanity ...... stay away from NM.

[PasadenaTrudy]

122. Haha, very funny n/t

[Stonepounder]

46. Please don't lump everything Southern together.

Yes, there southern states that are governed by the Tea Party, but then again, there are some northern and southwestern states that are run by the Tea Party as well. However, if you look closely, many times the urban areas are reasonably liberal. It is the rural areas that vote in the Tea Party. We live in No KY, just across the river from Cincinnati.

When I retired, re bought a repo double wide mobile in a lovely, wooded, park. The lots are large and, since we are over 65, we get a 'homestead exemption' on our property tax that exceeds the assessed valuation of our home, which means we pay no property tax. Yes, it is predominantly white, but there are several black families living in the park as well and nobody thinks anything about it. The nice thing is that, since we bought our home outright, we pay only the lot rent (which is less than half the cost of a lot about 1/3 the size in the San Jose, CA area).

Yes, Ky has a couple of assh**e Senators, and the turtle, but the State government is pretty reasonable. We have a Dem Governor, Lt. Gov, and AG. Yes, they would have been Republicans 40 years ago, but then, so would most Dems. When they owner of the 'Creationism Museum' wanted to build a theme park based on the Bible, he managed to get some tax concessions from Frankfort based on the jobs it would create and the income it would bring into the state. When that same owner announced that only 'Christians' need apply to work in the park, Frankfort told him that unless he recanted his statement and agreed to hire anyone qualified. He refused and Frankfort pulled his tax concessions, effectively scuttling the project.

I have also spent time in the Research Park Triangle, in NC. Inside the triangle is probably pretty expensive, but the companies I was doing training for had multi-racial, multi-cultural work forces, working together with no apparent racism or prejudice.

So, please don't condemn the entire South, just because they get a lot of bad press.

[edhopper]

62. I have relatives in the South

I know there were good people, just don't know if I could stomach the State politics.
And we love NY, We should be able to stay here, as the middle class was a always able to.
But the middle class is just something to scrape off their shoes now.

[mahina]

146. I read you.

[a la izquierda]

99. I feel your pain

I'm an assistant professor in a college town (Morgantown, WV) that has an INSANELY expensive rental market. If I buy, my housing costs will come down a bit. Then I can start paying my student loans back (odd how that works, right).

If I want cheap, I live in the falling-down-shithole apartments that, unfortunately, my students have to deal with. I cannot believe their parents don't demand the city do something.

[edhopper]

105. And that's the kind of place

stupid articles are always touting as perfect little "retirement towns".
I am sure it is lovely, but it's friggin WV, not Boston. It should be affordable.

[a la izquierda]

110. If one is a law professor or in the sciences...

it's perfectly cheap. For the rest of humanity here, it's outrageous if one plans to do anything with the paycheck besides spend it on housing, groceries, or gas (food and gas are also more expensive than one would expect).

[fizzgig]

117. we have two or three new student housing complexes

and at least a couple more on the way, but enrollment keeps going up. residents here complain about the college kids driving up the cost of living (vacancy is like 2% here), now they're complaining that the city is building student housing and not more affordable housing. note: the city itself is not building the student housing.

but i do understand their frustration. the section 8 waiting list is years long at this point and the city has very little public housing.

one of the big issues here is the occupancy ordinance. under that ordinance, husband and i can't share a house with another couple as no more than three unrelated people can live together. we could share a three bed with one other person, but that wouldn't decrease our cost of living at all.

we run into another big issue with our cats. fewer and fewer places accept cats and many of them that do want not only a non-refundable $300-per-pet fee, they want $25-$30 a month in pet rent per pet. yeah, i know i'm not going to get all my security deposit back anyway, but they are not going to cause $1200 of damage. it's one of the last acceptable gouging moves in renting.

[1939]

126. And the univewrsity doesn't build dorms for all the undergraduates?

Why is the city on the hook?

[safeinOhio]

15. In the mid-west

I'm getting ready to sell my 4 bedroom 2 and a half bath, 2,500 sq/foot, undated house for about 128K and close on a smaller house with 2+ acres for 75K. I'd love to live near the coast and will settle for the coast of the Great Lakes.

[edhopper]

16. I don't want to insult others who live there

the midwest is just not for me.
But it seems like the only affordable places are the ones not for me.

[safeinOhio]

22. Seems we can't win.

At least I can afford to travel a lot. Looked at moving to the West Coast, but would not be able to survive on my pension and SS. Went to Europe last month and travel to Cali about 2 times a year.

[SheilaT]

17. On the other hand, there are places that have a reputation

for being unaffordable, but are not at all so. Johnson County, Kansas, is one, Santa Fe, NM is another. I used to live in the former, I now live in the latter. Both places do have million dollar homes but both places also have lots of very affordable housing.

[fizzgig]

21. i would live in santa fe

good to know it can be affordable.

[SheilaT]

52. I moved here in 2008 from Overland Park, KS.

I paid exactly what I'd have paid for a similar apartment in OP. But there aren't the absurd 90 square foot apartments with the bathroom down the hall and no kitchen beyond a microwave oven as you can find in NYC.

A year later I bought a small place, smaller than the same money could have bought back there, but more than adequate for me. The schools here are less than wonderful, for a lot of reasons, but mainly a local culture that just doesn't understand the value of an education. For someone who has kids I'd say try very hard to move to Los Alamos because their public schools are excellent, simply because just about everyone in Los Alamos has an advanced degree and they make sure their kids are getting a very good education.

But the cultural life in Santa Fe can be pretty amazing. We actually have a movie theater to resident ratio that's four times greater than most of the rest of the country. Including the Jean Cocteau Cinema, which George RR Martin (of Game of Thrones) bought a few years ago, refurbished, and shows interesting movies, including free showings of the Games of Thrones on occasion, and various special events, many of which are science-fiction connected. There are lectures and museums and just lots of stuff here.

[fizzgig]

59. i was there once in the early 2000s and fell in love

we're close enough to make it a long weekend, but i've just never made it happen.

[avebury]

26. Sam Brownback has thoroughly trashed the Kansas state

budget which, to me, makes Kansas highly undesireable. A lot of schools had to close down early this past year when they ran out of money. There were talks of layoffs. Kansas is an example of what the 1%ers want to do this entire country. I think that they refer to it as the Kansas model.

[Hoyt]

18. I'm really interested in some of the small houses that are becoming popular, at least on TV.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

31. If I could digitize all of my textbooks, magazines, pleasure reading...

I could take up half or less of the space I currently do. Publishers really need to sell 'digital copy' rights alongside the paper versions, just like some of the DVDs or Blu-rays come with these days.

[SheilaT]

70. They do, at least with the new books.

Books that were published before things like kindle and the like, often have those electronic rights in limbo. But anymore, almost every book published also comes out as an ebook.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

100. That's good to know.

Won't help us old fogeys, but at least the new folks buying now are helped.

[SheilaT]

102. So much comes out electronically,

included stuff that is only available that way, that the death of regular books has been a given for at least five years now. Surprised you haven't noticed.

So far I have zero interest in an e-reader, and I've been known to post a complaint when someone here proudly announcing their book available only electronically. Maybe if I went on a very long ocean voyage, or got picked for the Mars Mission, I'd get one. Meanwhile, paperbacks don't take up that much space, and a couple of books tide me over for almost all trips I take. Or when I travel by car, as I am currently doing, I can just haul along all of my library books, because I can renew them over the internet while I'm on the road.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

103. I must just not be buying the kind of things they have bothered to provide an e-version for yet.

And about the only time I buy books online, as well, is when I hit thebookdepository.com to pick up books written in German.

[SheilaT]

104. If you only go to independent bookstores,

which is not a bad book buying strategy, you might never know that e-readers even exist. If you walk into Barnes and Noble, the very first thing you're confronted with is their e-reader.

I doubt the publishers of books in German are skipping the e-publication.

I just took a look at the book depository site, and they do seem to completely ignore the electronic version of books. They must not have a proprietary e-reader of their own.

[Cal Carpenter]

137. That's simply not true

"the death of regular books has been a given for at least five years now."


That's just not the case.

In the first few years of e-readers, the book market did change very rapidly, with e-books grabbing up tons of market share. But since then, the overall growth of e-books has begun to plateau, and (I forget the specific #s) the majority of people who got hooked on new e-readers switched back to print books for about %50 of their reading after one year of using the e-reader.

The number of folks who use e-readers exclusively is significant, but it is not rising much anymore, and those who do both formats are leaning back toward print books.

Children's print books are a particularly healthy part of the market, growing pretty steadily, along with young adult and various types of adult fiction and more serious nonfiction.

E-books are very strong in terms of certain genres like romance, fantasy, mystery, etc - things that are more mass market. Also, most self-published books are primarily sold in e-book form but very few of those become big sellers anyway. Textbooks are also basically a lost cause for bricks and mortar stores because of online discount retailers. Other categories ebb and flow but there is no basis to claim that print books and small bookstores are dying overall. In fact, small independent bookstores are making a pretty serious (and so far, successful) comeback the last few years in many places around the country.

I helped a friend do a lot of research on this not too long ago, so I assure you I'm not talking out my ass, although I don't have links handy.

[SheilaT]

145. I keep on hearing or reading the prediction of the forthcoming death of real books,

so much so that I'm pretty much a closet anti e-reader person. And your information about people returning back to real books from the electronic ones is quite interesting.

Children's books are one of the kinds I often think about when I hear people say that some time in the future there will be no more real books. Especially things like pop-up books.

I have gotten so I try very hard to patronize my local independent bookstore, and I don't care that I could buy a book more cheaply on Amazon. I want those wonderful people to stay in business.

It is very cheering to hear that the independents are doing well these days.

I am also rather frustrated at to what extent newbie writers self publish electronically, without getting all the editing and so on they need. There's a popular perception that anyone can write as well as anyone else and if you just self publish you'll make a ton of money. I simply refuse to even look at self-published books any more, unless an already established author is behind it.

[Cal Carpenter]

151. It's funny

I just posted on another thread about how most self-publishing outfits (including amazon's createspace) are little more than a scam. I know the traditional publishing world is snooty and impossible to navigate for most writers, but this idea that self-publishing gives everyone a chance is just wrong, in part because, like you say, there are no editors. It doesn't matter how great an author is, they need an editor, including award-winning best selling established authors. And that's not even getting into the distribution aspect of things.

I'm a huge fan of local bookstores myself, so cheers for making a point to shop at one!

[Trajan]

160. To make a tiny house liveable

Design it to 'interface' with outdoor spaces to expand your living area ... Design a patio that sidles one side of the house, and provides outdoor living space that is protected from sun and wind ...

That's my take, at any rate ....

[Hoyt]

167. Thanks. I really think I'd feel cramped too much less than 800 sf.

But some of the folding beds, tables, etc., would help with that. And I'm ready to get rid of a lot of stuff.

[AnnieO]

168. How many in your household?

Is it just you? I live alone in 400sqft or so and it's actually too much room. I'm a minimalist.

[Hoyt]

169. Two. I've seen some of the set ups at Ikea for 200, 300, 400 sf. They are amazing.

I've thought I could go less if I had a small travel trailer too. I like to play guitar, etc., and that would be a place to do that by myself. Plus, something to travel with.

If it were just me, I bet I could do less than 400 sf.

I'm still pondering the whole idea, and what I really need. I hope to find something to rent and see how well I adapt.

Thanks for the thoughts.

[Warpy]

23. I felt the same way when I lived in Boston

and was paying half my pay for rent that was going up faster than the paycheck did.

I was lucky, nursing was a very portable job. The pay went a lot farther out here in New Mexico.

However, things like vacations were still for other people, never for me. Ditto dinner out in places that lacked harsh fluorescent lighting and had tablecloths.

No matter where you are, that's the same. Things our parents did are now far out of our own reach. It's the measure of how the middle class is now working class--or worse.

[SheilaT]

71. It's been my observation that nursing pays

quite well, and aren't you in ABQ which is supposed to be a lot cheaper than Santa Fe?

I realize my cousin on the east coast's 6 figure salary isn't going to be what you'd get here, but at the hospital here all the nurses drive much nicer cars than I do.

[Warpy]

72. Too funny, I drove the same sort of third world junkers I'd driven in Mass,

because hospital parking lots are terrible places to park something you don't want full of dents. People aren't going out of their way to be jerks, they're just under a lot of stress and not being as careful as they might be elsewhere.

I took a $6/hour cut when I came out here, but housing and energy costs were so much cheaper that I didn't miss it much.

[SheilaT]

101. My hospital has separate parking for employees, and I've parked in

both that lot and the one for regular visitors, and never had or noticed a problem.

[Paper Roses]

159. You are lucky to be out of this neck of the woods.

Real Estate prices are insane and rentals for a dump (plus all utilities) are unbelievable.
I am trying to stay in my home of 45 years. Taxes and utilities are awful. Most of my SS check goes to pay bills, there is little left for food. Nothing left for a dinner out or any kind of entertainment.
I stay because I don't know where to go. My very small family is here. If I leave, I know I won't see my family for months or years. Don't know how much time I have left on this earth but it is getting so bad that I wonder if it is worth hanging around! If I get sick, even though I have Medicare, I know that everything my late husband and I worked for will be gone. I will jump off a bridge first.
I just hope I recognize that my time is up and have the courage to do something about it.
What pleasure is gained by worrying 24 hours a day about how you will survive?
Sorry to be a downer but I am now feeling that my train is going to hell and I am on the first car.

[edhopper]

170. So sorry to hear

My heart goes out to you.

[alarimer]

24. The only affordable places are places I do not want to live

Either the weather is terrible (I'm looking at you, Minnesota) or the politics suck (most places south of the Mason-Dixon line).

Blue states are great, but they are too fucking expensive. Taxes are way to damn high, for one thing. Cost of living is out of control.

Case in point, I will spend over $900 to register my car in Maryland. Really I guess that's more of a fee than a tax. 3% sales tax for bringing it in from North Carolina. It would have been 6%, but NC charges 3% so I just had to pay the difference. Based on blue book value, it was $300 just for that, plus associated other fees, which brought the initial total to $550. I had to pay $100 for a safety inspection (which is only required when you sell or buy- not sure which end of the transaction is responsible- or bring it in from out of state). Car failed that because of the window tint. Which I was not aware that I had because it was never an issue anywhere. So I paid $84 to have it removed, because it wasn't safe for me to do it myself on some of the windows. Now i have to go back and pay the registration fee, which is $155 for two years, a sum that is similar to other places.

The good news is, those (except for the registration) are all one-time fees. But it seems they are gouging people who move into the state. I certainly feel like I don't want to stay here because of the higher taxes and fees. And the rent is too damn high as well. I like the place and I like that it's close to work, but it's a ridiculous price to pay for a 1-bedroom.

Interestingly, though, there are some affordable houses for sale in Annapolis. They are not new and they are not huge, but you can find a bungalow-type place for $200,000 or so, if you look hard enough. So renting is a terrible option really.

[1939]

25. Everybody wants to live within 50 miles of the east or west coast

Supply and demand has driven up the cost.

Being retired, if I wanted to maximize my pension and SS, I would move to Sioux Falls, SD which is the cheapest metro area. My wife says south Florida, so that is where I live (and pay for it).

[pnwmom]

27. The problem with that is that retired people need access to good health care

and it's hard to find it in small rural towns.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

28. It's what the TPP will speed up.

The process of turning America into another Brazil, with the 1% living in palatial estates, walled off from the crowded slums into which the rest of us will be crammed when there are nowhere near enough jobs because most of them have been offshored to places where people are happy to work for 50 cents a day.

[840high]

37. +1

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

32. I moved from Cambridge to Houston in 1980 for a job and an affordable place to live.

I just sold my three bedroom house for $320K (double the price I paid nine years ago) and bought a really nice two story, two bedroom condo (with two fire places I'll never use) right on the bayou (it didn't flood) for $175K. Houston has been good to me. I was working five part time jobs in Cambridge and was losing my rent controlled apartment in Harvard Square. I had no choice but to move. There was no place for me to live and no full time teaching job. Luckily the Houston schools hired 29% of my graduating class from Lesley. I taught for 33 years. This is a great city. I get a lot of flack from my family for living in Texas, but they all reluctantly like it once they visit.

[SusanCalvin]

67. I like Houston a lot in theory.

Most diverse city, gay mayor.

But there's a lot of mediocrity and below happening in tourist-type things like entertainment, museums, dining.

I know, first-world problem......

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

83. I must have sunk to its level - it's all fine to me. I'm not touristy.

[SusanCalvin]

86. I'm not either, but

Even in my limited travels, I notice a difference between commercial places that strive to make a good first (and lasting) impression and those that go "whatever."

Way too many businesses in Houston don't put themselves out to *earn* your money. In my experience. And I'm talking fancy-poo.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

87. That's the trade off.

In the Northeast, there's a dog-eat-dog, extremely competitive life style. It makes for a lot of stress, but the quality is top notch. When I come back after visiting family in Boston and Vermont, I go through what I feel is the opposite of the bends when dealing with people in retail.

[SusanCalvin]

89. Exactly.

And I don't feel the environment has to be dog eat dog to get that. Just people who care about their jobs and the people they are serving.

[Lurker Deluxe]

85. really?

I think you are mistaken ... but I just live here.

Museums, theaters, and other venues are all top notch. Perhaps NYC and LA may surpass but other than that we are on beyond most.

[SusanCalvin]

88. I wish.

I was going to detail, but it is late and I need to prepare for sleep.

It's probably better than a lot of places (well, definitely if you include the whole world), and there are certain things I like OK, but much could be improved. Yeah, if I'm so grumpy I should go out and improve it myself.... ;->

[Lobo27]

33. Saw this awhile back...

"One of my greatest pains... Buying groceries for my family. Every trip seems to cost more. Every trip results in fewer bags."

[PatrickforO]

34. No, you're not.NYC has become a 'luxury city' according to Joel Kotkin,

author of 'The Current Class Struggle.' He says that there are still quite a few urban areas that are what he calls 'opportunity cities' or places where people like you and me can actually live, raise families and get ahead if we play our cards right. Maybe you should move to someplace like Denver.

[edhopper]

35. We will probably need to

we are a few years from retirement, but as that approaches we talk about places to move.
We love NY, but the reality is we most likely can't stay.

[PasadenaTrudy]

48. My friends

bought a one bedroom co op in Ditmas Park. It's deep in Brooklyn but a nice area. He's a high school art teacher, she's an assistant architect, no kids. Somehow they manage!

[jwirr]

36. Great discription. I have been living with family for 10 years now because I cannot afford to live

anywhere else. Oh I would be able to live in Section 8 housing but there is a 4 year waiting list. The good side is that I can at least help the family I live with by helping to pay the bills. Most things I buy at rummage sales and food we have a family cooperative where we grow a lot of our food.

I am no longer buying birthday and Christmas gifts for others and work to manage my food budget as best I can.

So yes, there are a lot of people feeling it. BTW I live in one of those reasonable rent areas and what happens here is that you get paid less. They get you coming and going.

[edhopper]

38. And the sad part is

too many Americans support and vote for the people who are doing this.

[yeoman6987]

64. Well it is expensive in blue areas

Do you want Republicans? I don't. At least schools tend to be better in blue areas.

[Depaysement]

41. The unfashionable parts of Brooklyn are still affordable

Like my neighborhood.

Near where Bernie grew up.

[edhopper]

43. Affordability is relative

we can stay here in Queens, for now. But i don't think it will last.

[Depaysement]

45. Very true

I feel for you brother. My day will come too.

[abelenkpe]

42. Same for us in LA!

This is where our work is but the price of homes in our area is five times what it was in 1999 and three times as much to rent. We are priced out of buying and only getting by because we are in a rent controlled apartment. But the buildings here are being bought up by investors who evict tenants, raze the building, build higher occupancy buildings and double the rent. Hang in there!

[PasadenaTrudy]

49. I'm in So. Pasadena

I live in an apt bldg my dad bought in 1963. Thank goddess for it because I could never afford my own place here. Fixers start at over $500K.

[abelenkpe]

54. Love that area!

Would love to live over that way. But you are right, very expensive to live there.

[ariesgem]

81. My parents purchased 3 houses on a huge lot in Pasadena around the Los Robles/Orange Grove ave area

back in 1977 for $69K. They sold it in the early 90's for 370k and moved to Georgia for a few years. After my father passed away, we moved back to Pasadena and was priced out the market. That property is now worth close to a million.

[PasadenaTrudy]

123. I bet it is!

My dad bought our commercial/residential bldg. for about $40K in 1963, it's now valued well over $1M. I'm staying put though until I'm too old or infirm to live with all these stairs.

[AtomicKitten]

47. I'd dying here in SF. My rent was raised $500 a month recently.

It's killing me. I have to work 7 days a week and I'm still barely scraping by.

[inanna]

61. I know way too many people who are forced to work

Last edited Sun Jun 21, 2015, 09:40 PM - Edit history (1)

seven days a week in order to survive.

I did it for about a year and a half too, and it sucked the soul right out me.

No way should it take this much just to survive.

[AtomicKitten]

63. Just five more months to go

... until I take early retirement and collect SS. It's less $ than waiting until I'm 67 or 70 and I'll still have to work, but not quite as hard.

Annie was right. It's a hard knock life.

[mia]

93. Better to keep working while you can. Your elderly self will have 32% less to live on

if you take SS soon. How will you make up the difference when you aren't strong enough to work? I've know too many people who retired early and regretted it. Being old is hard enough, and even worse when you have no money to spare.

Best wishes to you.

http://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/articles/2014/08/08/to-claim-or-not-to-claim-when-should-you-take-social-security

[AtomicKitten]

138. Thank you for the advice and link.

Generally speaking, I agree with your conclusion. However, I have worked as an independent contractor, self-employed, statutory employee, and other permutations of tax status over the years as a medical transcriptionist, and only as a statutory employee were payroll taxes deducted and matched by my employer. It's a real conundrum for people in my industry. Thank you very much for your advice. I do appreciate it. I will certainly think it over carefully before making a move.

Cheers.

[mwooldri]

51. I was "priced out" in 1999.

My wife and I married in 1999, and if we were to have lived together in England I would have had to find a home of my own. Working a little more than minimum wage on a zero-hour contract meant I had little and erratic income. I put myself on the "council house waiting list" in 1997, as social housing would be the only way we could go. I hadn't got better employment, I was still reliant on public transport (or my parents) and the choice was made: move to North Carolina. I got a well paying job, and in 2010 we managed to buy our first home (with a mortgage). We got more house and land for our $$$ than we would have anywhere in England.

[BlueJazz]

56. I'm living in Sarasota, Florida. I must say, much to my surprise, I've found the town to be...

...a great mixture of Arts, Theater and nice beaches. One Good thing is the town has a lot of Northerners who have moved here to get away from the Rat race of very large cities but they still want the Arts and non-redneck crap.

Of course, we still have skinny-man but most people ignore the right-wing nuts.

[Nay]

94. I lived in Sarasota in the 70's and loved it. Florida all around is cheap to live in right

now, except for areas like Miami. When the real estate prices collapsed in 2008, they never came back very well. If you stay on the coasts (gulf or Atlantic, gulf is much prettier), you tend to not see as many RWers because of the northerners who have moved there.

House prices are low, but of course jobs don't pay much.

[pnwmom]

58. And to make matters worse -- more and more of the housing stock

is being purchased by wealthy investors who aren't even living there -- often investors from other countries. So in some of these new buildings, a large fraction of the apartments are empty most of the time. But real live people have been forced out to make room for these "investments."

[edhopper]

74. so much of Manhattan

and the boroughs is being bought by foreign investors who don't even live in the apts and houses.

[pnwmom]

76. San Francisco, too. And it's even starting in Seattle. n/t

[freshwest]

60. Same, but worse; I'd move but I can't abandon the one I'm caring for; Heartbreaking. n/t

[sorefeet]

68. East of Billings

I'm just lucky. I knew this day would come so I searched for quite a while but I got a 3 bedroom farmstead I rent for 300 bucks a month. But I do all maintaining of the house. I never ask the land owner for any thing. And the place is nice and very private. Out buildings and I live alone so I have lots of room for my stuff. I could never live in a city again. Country only.
But in Billings there are tons of jobs but hard to find a rental and very expensive. Way over priced for the home or trailer you rent. The oil boom in the Bakkans caused all the greed.

[rickford66]

75. Build your own house

We live in NY and built our own as have several others we know.

[DCBob]

78. Unfortunately it is becoming the norm. .

Rent is crazy here in DC area. You have to have to two good salaries to afford anything decent. Its a huge problem for those with lower incomes.

[bigwillq]

82. I live in CT and feel the same way

And, no, I shouldn't have to move. The state, and country, need to stop putting the financial burden on the backs of the average citizen.

[CoffeeCat]

95. I think it's getting harder and harder to make it...

We lived in a condo, but moved into a 4BR home in the suburbs.

There are days I feel that we are in over our head--and we've lived in this house for a decade.

I long for our condo days. Trying to keep up with grocery prices, healthcare prices, cost of landscaping, and housing upkeep--really is daunting at times.

I feel like a hamster on a wheel--my little legs are going so fast but I'm really not getting anywhere. And boy am I tired.

I used to be a stay-at-home mom with my husband working a great job in IT. Then, 2008 hit. Boom. Welcome to the nightmare. Life as we knew it, is gone. Everything looks the same on the outside. Lawn is still trimmed. Groceries are still purchased. Kids are still clothed and talking on their iPhones. It's just getting harder and harder to maintain all of this.

I wonder sometimes--as I pass by all of the other pretty suburban homes, if inside there aren't people who also feel the same?

[closeupready]

111. Boy, do I recognize THAT description - I could have written that.

Times have SO changed.

[L0oniX]

107. Democracy is also being priced out.

[NM_Birder]

108. no it's not.

there will always be a price tag on democracy, it's just not in your price range.

perhaps you would like to look at something that will fit your budget ? Maybe a round of poverty ? -or- can I interest you in some malnutrition, an unemployment check,.... or perhaps ? ....... if you are adventurous ............. how about three part time jobs and a government health insurance plan you can afford the deductible for ?

No need to make reservations, "walk in's are always welcome"

[Recursion]

109. We need denser cities

But everybody is against that when the rubber hits the road.

[edhopper]

112. NY is getting very dense

a great deal of housing is going up.
Unfortunately, it's all luxury. bought by people who often don't live in the apt.s
Very little built for the middle class.

[Recursion]

113. Queens is dense without being luxe.

So is the Bronx. You can still get a 1BR in Sunnyside for about $1200.

There are cycles. 30 years ago Manhattan was cheaper than the boroughs, but demand changed.

[Romulox]

114. No we don't. There's plenty of housing in the US. The Fed is currently subsidizing debt

via near 0% interest rates, which radically shifts power to the "haves" in the real estate game.

That's all. A real estate crash is imminent.

[Recursion]

115. Sounds like a tidy solution to the problem, then

Sucks for people who used the house as a retirement fund, but they were warned not to do that.

[Romulox]

116. Hey, why not *negative* interest rates? Let's pay the haves for having!

Sucks for people who used the house as a retirement fund, but they were warned not to do that.

Right. Just like it sucks for wage earners, who can't afford to buy.

[MineralMan]

118. I lived in California most of my life.

I lived in the same little house in a central coast town, a couple of blocks from the water, for 30 years. I bought it in 1974 for just $20K. Then, my father-in-law had a stroke and my wife and I needed to move to Minnesota so we could help out. My own parents, also very old, still had my two siblings living in the same town, so we moved.

Minnesota. It wouldn't have been my first choice of a place to move. I've always been a small town guy. But, my wife and I both are freelance writers, so where we live doesn't matter. So, I got rid of 30 years of accumulation, tidied up our tiny 750 sq. ft. house, and put it on the market in 2004. It sold the first week for $337K. We packed our possessions in a UHaul truck I bought from UHaul (a good deal, by the way) and we drove for six days to my wife's parents home. We stayed with them as we looked for a house to buy. We ended up in a 900 sq. ft. house with an unfinished full basement, making the actual living space 1800 sq. ft. It cost us half what we got for our California house. We moved in exactly a month from the time we arrived in MN.

Living here has been just fine, despite the frigid weather. We don't commute, so if it's nasty outside, we stay inside. We live in St. Paul, and there's plenty of cool stuff going on between Minneapolis and our city. Public transportation is easily available. The only increase in our cost of living is winter energy bills, but that's not horrible. The "horrible" Minnesota weather hasn't turned out to be much of a problem.

I went on Social Security at 62, but continue to work. I'm almost 70 now. I just hung out my shingle as a website content writer, and had my first contract and project the first week. That little business has continued to grow. My wife is still writing for the same people she has always written for. It doesn't matter where we live for work.

What's my point? Well, if you're in a place where living costs are unsustainable, looking around is a good idea. Whatever work you do, it's likely that there are people doing that same work in lots of places. Research is easy, with the Internet at hand to help. You can look at housing costs, job availability, and just about everything else quickly and easily. Mid-sized cities offer lots of opportunities in most regions, but without the extreme high cost of living of our major coastal cities.

It's not easy to move to a new place. We all get used to where we are, and often can't imagine living somewhere else. But, it's worth doing some preliminary research to see what opportunities are out there. There are great places to live all across the country, not just on the coasts. Different, of course, but options are available.

It's worth looking around if you think you'll be priced out of where you currently live. You'll be surprised at what you find, I guarantee.

[edhopper]

119. Thanks

believe me, where to move to is an ongoing discussion here. If one of us had a great feeling to move somewhere, the other would probably go along. We just both would like to stay here in NY. And other places that appeal to us are equally expensive.
We will probably end up somewhere that is not our first choice, but enough to be content.
But the larger problem, of not being able to live in the area you want to, is very real for the middle class.
I am not bemoaning Manhattan being to pricey. I am talking about the entire Metropolitan area. At some point the 1% who are buying everything will find there are no more workers to keep things going.

[MineralMan]

121. I really understand. I didn't want to leave my home, either.

We really had no choice, though, since both my wife and I feel a strong responsibility toward our aging parents. My wife was actually shocked that I proposed that we pack up and move to Minnesota.

My first choice would always be to live in a small town and work from home. But, it turns out that the neighborhood I live in is a lot like a small town, lined with houses built in the 1950s with families living in them. I can do big city things, if I choose to, which I couldn't do where I used to live. St. Paul even has a completely free zoo to visit, of all things. Parks, lakes, a major river, tons of arts opportunities, and more. I actually like living here, I find.

It's just different in many ways, but that's OK, really. The Twin Cities metro area is home to almost 3 million people, but you can buy a home here, still, in a nice quiet neighborhood, move-in ready, for about $150K. There are a couple of nice ones in my neighborhood on the market right now. If you don't mind doing some rehab work, you can still find many bargains in housing here. A 2-bedroom apartment starts at about $1000 or so in many places, if that's your preference, and houses for rent start at about the same. Want a townhome? Lots of those around, starting under $100K.

Everything any metro area has is available here, from a wealth of colleges and universities to an outstanding health care situation, with same day appointments in excellent multi-specialty clinics that love Medicare patients. Half a dozen excellent hospitals.

Just about every state has mid-sized cities of 200,000 population or so that are similar. All offer a metro lifestyle with all of the usual amenities, but at much lower cost than the major coastal cities. It's an interesting thing to pick some city and go look at housing prices and employment opportunities. You can go place-shopping so easily today.

I'll admit that it's much easier if you're self-employed. Jobs are a big issue. But all mid-sized to large cities support most job categories to a greater or lesser degree.

I don't know. It seems to me that if rising cost of living is causing stress, doing some research is in order. What you find will probably surprise you.

[edhopper]

125. Right now we are hanging in there

but when retirement comes.......

[MineralMan]

128. Yes. That changes a lot of things, for sure.

[edhopper]

131. There are nice places

where we can get an affordable condo near the water.
But living in a place like Florida, or Georgia or Carolina is tough for me, politically.

[MineralMan]

135. Yes, I know what you're saying.

On the other hand, the more people who move there, the better the chance is of turning those places around. North Carolina is on the verge of something major, I think, and Florida is also on the edge of turning blue. Georgia and South Carolina, I'm afraid, aren't as close. A lot depends on the local politics in the place you live, too. When it comes to politics, choosing the right congressional district can make a big difference, I think.

[mahina]

149. Thank you MineralMan.

What is the neighborhood called? It sounds lovely.

[MineralMan]

165. Hayden Heights

[mahina]

171. mahalo!

[Prism]

120. I'm hoping my landlord forgets I live here

I lucked out in SF East Bay. A spacious one bedroom for $875 a month five minutes from Berkeley, three blocks from a BART station, four blocks from an I-80 ramp, and wedged between two major shopping centers. My friends hate me so very much for it. I think the property manager just liked us when we applied (with 30 other applicants after one day of showing). She probably figured we were gay, we'd fix the place up. Tch. We showed her. I've thought about upgrading now that we can afford quite a lot more, but it's just crazy out there. Two and three bedroom apartments are like $2000 starting, with square footage that isn't really any more than I have now.

In Berkeley proper, apartments half the size of mine were going for $1300-$1600 just five years ago. I have a friend a town over in Emeryville paying $2000 for a studio that, again, is maybe 2/3 the size of my apartment. (We will not discuss the friend who just bought a studio in the S.F. garment district for $550k. I think he's utterly insane).

And it is not getting better. Section 8 in Berkeley is being slowly squeezed out. Old businesses that have been here for years are being mowed down for new developments. Berkeley is going the way of San Francisco with the influx of new wealth. Oakland is slowly going down the same road. A friend's neighbor bought his house in Oakland for around $450k five years ago. He sold this year. It turned into a bidding war. Prospective buyers were bribing him. It eventually went for $880k.

This area is devolving into madness.

[edhopper]

129. Had a large studio with separate eat-in kitchen

and bay window on Pine off of Van Ness in the early 80s. Think I paid $250 mo.

[Prism]

132. Reading through Tales of the City

About how S.F. was in the 70s and 80s is like reading about a city in the 19th century for all it matters.

That world is just utterly gone now. ;/

[edhopper]

133. When I lived there

people always talked about how it was a decade or two before. Half of Herb Caen's columns were about days gone by.
How great it was in the 50s or 60s (and it was!) but it was cool in the 70s and 80s as well.
It still is a great city, just one that has priced out everyone but the tech elite.

[Prism]

136. It's a beautiful city

I love the art, the culture, the food, and most importantly, the diversity of the place. I've never lived anywhere that contained so many different people, ethnicities, cultures, and languages in such a small area.

You can still find little concerts, little enclaves of accessible art, dive bars, and hidden eateries. But they're vanishing more and more and being replaced with bars and restaurants that will cost you a day's wage to enjoy.

[MadDAsHell]

124. You're not alone, I think this is happening quite often.

Last edited Mon Jun 22, 2015, 03:51 PM - Edit history (1)

One thing I don't understand (and maybe you're native to NY and this doesn't apply to your situation), is the # of people that actively choose to move to places like NY, LA, etc. I know some will argue that "that's where the jobs are," but there are tens of millions of Americans (hundred million plus actually) living and working at very good jobs in far more affordable cities (or even rural areas).

Yes, there's probably lots do to.

Yes, these are vibrant and diverse cities.

But I've noticed on Facebook that a lot of my high school and college classmates ended up in these big cities working pretty low paying jobs. Should someone who is planning to work at Starbucks for $8/hr really move to New York City to do it?

[edhopper]

127. NY is not just a big city.

It's culture and food alone are unrivaled in the rest of the country. Also it has been home for almost 30 years , 40 for my wife, so it's a city we know the ins and outs of very well. Plus there are family and friends here.
I lived in LA and hated it. (not to say others can't find it great). But loved living in SF, though that is now more expensive than even here.
Not to say we won't move if that is the better option. But at this point I think that should be a decision we make, not one forced on us.

[closeupready]

134. Right - it's Home now. After 30 years.

(20 for me.) It's imperfect, expensive, demanding, etc. but it's a HELL of a lot better than where we came from.

[madville]

143. I still have a house in rural North Florida

I figure I might retire there one day, work in a city 120 miles away from it right now. It was built in 1994 on one acre 12 miles miles from the closest town in a county with 21,000 people in it.

I like country living though, my property taxes are $700 a year, insurance is $550 annually, power and water run about $150 a month. The coast is an hour away (I'm up by the Georgia state line).

My pensions and SS are going to be about $4000 a month in today's dollars when I retire, should be able to live pretty well out there on that.

Politics are deep red but most people are registered Democrats because the county Sheriff race always is determined in the Democratic primary, but most are very conservative overall.

[jeff47]

147. What's your industry?

A lot of times people don't realize that some less-expensive places actually have a large amount of work in a particular industry. For example, the Raleigh, NC area has a hell of a lot of software development jobs. And costs a hell of a lot less than Silicon Valley.

All us geeks relocating to the area have also turned the county quite liberal, much to the consternation of the few locals that remain.

Downside? It's about 100 degrees today, with high humidity. And it's going to be around 90-100 degrees until October, with humidity only getting worse.

[KauaiK]

148. I cannot remember when I last had

a meal outside of the house;
bought new anything including clothes; I just keep mending repairing including t-shirts;
vacation? (hahahahaha)
cable TV- gone years ago
last saw a movie in a theater
went for a ride (gasoline is for necessary driving only)


My income (SS) is for necessities only and I'm thankful for that.

[daredtowork]

152. Housing as commodity

Both Bernanke and Yellen are keeping the economy on life support primarily by making loans very cheap for people doing massive development. This means hiring people for construction. These development projects are sold and resold to investment funds. The property is valued according to area desirability and local speculators try to pump up values. They are abetted by local property owners who want the equity in their own house to grow as much as possible.

By the time new apartments are built, the money sunk into construction already requires high returns, even for "affordable" housing. We have to stop letting private developers loot HUD funds for housing that will turn out to be unaffordable anyway. We need to cultivate more nonprofit and public interest construction on public land trusts to compete with the market. We need rules to tax and recapture windfall profits on rents and plow that back into housing. Policy should be steered as much as possible back toward the American dream of home ownership. Local tax and waiver policies could although so support that.

[closeupready]

155. It just occurred to me, "Priced Out" should be

a series of documentaries on Al-Jazeera. I'd definitely watch.

[seveneyes]

166. The high cost of living ain't like the cost of living high