Confederate terrorism

[rogerashton]

One of the memes in the defense of the confederate battle flag is that "Confederates were not terrorists."

Roland Martin had argued that they were, citing parallels to al Qaeda. But he did not give instances.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/04/11/martin.confederate.extremist/

In fact, there were many instances of terrorism by Confederate forces and irregulars against civilians, especially civilian citizens of the Confederate states themselves, and terrorism was a policy of the Confederate government. There are a number of books that document that, but, of course, I can't link to a book. Here is one instance, though, from Texas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueces_massacre

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/11/massacre-on-the-nueces/?_r=0

That one hits home to me because I remember my uncle, himself of Pennsylvania German descent, showing me the monument in the San Antonio hill country and telling me the story. Sad, because my uncle's awareness is no longer very clear.

Treue der Union!

[Bonhomme Richard]

1. Read up on Ft. Pillow and what they did to......

the black union soldiers that tried to surrender. The rebel General there was Nathan Bedford Forrest who was the first Grand Dragon of the KKK after the war.

[rogerashton]

2. and the KKK was a terrorist organization, full stop. eom

[1939]

3. CSA

The CSA was just fine with states seceding, but Unionist parts of the seceded states were not accorded that luxury. West Virginia was large enough and remote enough to successfully carry out secession from Virginia, but the CSA did brutally put down unionist sentiment in southwestern Virginia, western North Carolina, eastern Kentucky, eastern Tennessee, and northern Alabama. They also conscripted unionist men into the CSA.

Most of the CSA actions were those similar to an occupying force. True terrorism was done by the southern guerrillas in Missouri.

Post war, the KKK unleashed true terrorism on the south.

[rogerashton]

4. Yes, very important.

They never quite managed to wipe out the "Free State of Jones" in Mississippi.

http://mshistorynow.mdah.state.ms.us/articles/309/newton-knight-and-the-legend-of-the-free-state-of-jones

Evidently, there's a movie coming out next year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Free_State_of_Jones_(film)

Might be a good one, too.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. Excellet director and cast, that's for sure....

nt

[DemocraticWing]

20. Kentucky was a Union state, although the CSA tried to capture it with terrorist tactics...

I've heard stories of "Morgan's Raiders" coming through and burning down courthouses in small towns across the state. The Confederates were mostly driven out of the state during the War, although afterwards a lot of them moved to Kentucky and tried to realign the state politically towards the Old Confederacy.

I'm not sure the Civil War ever ended. I'm starting to fear we're still fighting it.

[1939]

22. Kentucky was a union state

Lincoln kept it in the union by treating it as a "neutral". CSA General Leonidas Polk moved into Kentucky in 1861 which then allowed the north to move troops in response. CS General Braxton Bragg made a major invasion of Kentucky in 1862 and was defeated at Perryville. The CSA never again seriously threatened Kentucky. Eastern Kentucky was staunch unionist. Western kentucky was pro-CSA, but was overawed by the massive union troop presence.

[rogerashton]

24. Morgan passed through Kentucky and raided into Indiana and Ohio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan's_Raid

To be fair, though, raids of this kind in wartime, while probably not "civilized warfare," are tactics that both sides used.

[Bonhomme Richard]

5. The northern Teabaggers of today would have been....

the Copperheads during the civil war just as they would have been the Tories during the revolutionary war. There is not a doubt in my mind.
Certain mindsets never change. It is up to the rest of us to fight for change.

[KingCharlemagne]

6. Ahem. Slavery was (and is) terrorism, else the word has no meaning whatsoever. Q.E.D. - nt

[1939]

7. But

Awful, terrible, immoral, exploitive, cruel, inhuman, etc does not equal terrorism. Words have precise definitions for a reason.

[KingCharlemagne]

8. Oh, FFS. You stretch ingenuity to its limits. - nt

[NuclearDem]

9. No, it's not.

[KingCharlemagne]

10. Yes, it is. - nt

[NuclearDem]

21. No, it isn't.

Slavery is a lot of things, but it's not an unlawful act of violence against civilians to inculcate fear in advance of a political or religious agenda.

[ck4829]

13. Yes it is. One can not have slavery without a constant climate of terror

[rogerashton]

14. King Charlemagne is right, of course.

The domination of the slavemaster over the slave is enforced by terrorism, if the word has any meaning at all.

But my point in the OP was in reference to Confederate forces, government, and irregulars, the "southern heritage" the battle flag is supposed to commemorate.

[KingCharlemagne]

17. Ah, I got you. Well, the Confederacy had certain irregular forces, like Mosby and

Quantrill. Those irregulars visited war's depredations upon the civilian populations under their domains. But I actually don't place much stock in the lexical value of 'terrorism.' The British referred to Jewish resistance as 'terrorists' in the 1940s in Palestine. So there you have it.

[rogerashton]

19. Irregulars --

The rhetoric of those who defend the battle flag would be that irregulars don't count, that they were not part of the CSA. That, again, is why I stressed the actions of forces that were in Confederate commissions. This is not to endorse their rhetoric but to expose it as false even in its own terms.

Bushwhackers. One of my ancestors was a Confederate bushwhacker. He went on to a postwar career as a gangster until his career was ended by murder at a "peace" conference with rival gangsters. He wore his bullet-proof vest but was killed by poison. Earlier, in the Bleeding Kansas period, another of my ancestors was shooting back at the southern bushwhackers from the cover of a storefront. Don't know whether both of my ancestors were in that gunfight, but it would be a pretty irony if so.

Good point about terrorism. The NAZIs described the assassins of Heydrich as terrorists. But, again, this goes back to the parallels between the rhetoric of the defenders of the battle flag and the defeners of al Qaeda. Actually, I think the IS, with its black flag, is in many ways a better parallel to the CSA than al Qaeda is.

[KittyWampus]

11. well winners get to assign the labels. Ask Native Americans. At Pow Wows-

you see lots of t-shirts riffing off this theme.

[rogerashton]

15. Odd -- I thought the Union won. eom

[Bad Thoughts]

12. A flag of sedition to rally against the USA and its values

The Confederate Flag has been a lasting symbol to encourage people to attack the government, its laws, the people of the USA and their values. It is a symbol of opposition to the attempts to empower African Americans in this country, and it encourages those who would attack African Americans for the rights they might win.

The hand that carries the flag is that of a terrorist.

[ladjf]

16. Arrogance, meanness and stupidity is a dangerous combination of traits. nt

[Paladin]

23. Andersonville, the CSA concentration camp.

There's nothing you neo-confederates can say that excuses the unspeakable conditions which were maintained at that facility. The camp supervisor was hung for it, with good reason.