What do we do now?

[marym625]

Last edited Sat Jun 20, 2015, 03:55 PM - Edit history (1)

We are all disgusted by the newest atrocity that took place in South Carolina. We're mortified at the monster that could just lift a gun, point it at an 87 year old woman, Susie Jackson, and shoot multiple times. That could murder a 26 year old, Tywanza Sanders, whom he just prayed with, as Sanders' mother watched her son die. That only left a tiny 5 year old girl alive because she played dead.

Our hearts and minds must be broken to not make this end.

Racism. I won't say "pure" because that word has connotations of goodness. But simple. Simple, unabashed, horrific, hate. Racism did this.

We built this monster. There are so many more like him. Whether they pick up a gun and shoot, whether they are officers of the law that harass, belittle and even murder. Whether they're officers of the court that put the family of the white, racist, murderer before the families of the innocent victims of terrorism. They're next store. They're in Congress. They're running for President. They're in our family, our churches, our place of work. They're everywhere.

We built this monster and we must destroy it. Every word spoken, every symbol used, every code word excused, must be addressed, redressed. Fought tooth and nail.

This cannot be acceptable. No person should have to feel like this. And we must end it.



https://www.twitter.com/solangeknowles/status/611425557415243776

State Senator Clementa C. Pinckney
Tywanza Sanders 
Cynthia Hurd 
Sharonda Coleman-Singleton 
The Rev. Depayne Middleton Doctor
Susie Jackson
Ethel Lance
Rev. Daniel Simmons Sr.
Myra Thompson

My heart hurts.

[napkinz]

1. "we built this monster"

[marym625]

2. I love Tim Wise

Thank you for posting this. I hadn't seen it yet. But I will be tweeting it now

[hifiguy]

49. That graphic needs to go viral

in a BIG way.

[marym625]

50. couldn't agree more

Obviously, since my post said the same thing, just not anywhere near as well.

Love Tim Wise!

[guillaumeb]

51. While you did not say the same thing,

what you said was very well said. Very well said.

[marym625]

52. Thank you

I appreciate that. The bottom line is the same and the same that most decent people believe. At least I sure hope so.

[99Forever]

3. What baffles me...

... is that this almost never happens in any other 1st world nation, but there are those, even on this forum, that refuse to acknowledge the awful, despicable reality of it. Like you Mary, I don't know how we go forward in an effective way.

It pains me to say, hatred, racism, prejudice against "the other," violence, and gunz, gunz, gunz are engrained American values to some. It seems an insanity that is all but impossible to penetrate.

[marym625]

4. I don't know how

But if we fight it in every way we know how, maybe we can reach some. Look at Robert Byrd. He went from being a part of the KKK to being a part of the solution. Took years, but it happened.

[oberliner]

10. What about Norway?

From Wikipedia

2011 Norway attacks

Excerpt:

The second attack occurred less than two hours later at a summer camp on the island of Utøya in Tyrifjorden, Buskerud. The camp was organized by the AUF, the youth division of the ruling Norwegian Labour Party (AP). A gunman dressed in a homemade police uniform and showing false identification[17][18] gained access to the island and subsequently opened fire at the participants, killing 69 of them,[7][8] and injuring at least 110 people, 55 of them seriously;[11][12] the 69th victim died in a hospital two days after the massacre.[9] Among the dead were personal friends of Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg and the stepbrother of Norway's crown princess Mette-Marit.[19]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

[99Forever]

11. Not buying the NRA propaganda, sorry.

ONE incident.

ONE


ONE


ONE


ONE



ONE


See the difference yet?

[oberliner]

13. Cumbria shootings (UK)

The Cumbria shootings was a killing spree that occurred on 2 June 2010 when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others before killing himself in Cumbria, England. Along with the 1987 Hungerford massacre, the 1989 Monkseaton shootings, and the 1996 Dunblane school massacre, it is one of the worst criminal acts involving firearms in British history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

Uherský Brod shooting (Czech Republic)

On 24 February 2015, a mass shooting occurred at the Družba restaurant in the town of Uherský Brod, Czech Republic.[3] Nine people were killed, including the gunman, 63-year-old Zdeněk Kovář, who committed suicide after a standoff with police that lasted nearly two hours.[4] In addition, one other person was injured.[5] Uherský Brod is 260 kilometers (160 miles) east-southeast of the Czech capital Prague.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uherský_Brod_shooting

2011 Liège attack (Belgium)

On 13 December 2011, a murder–suicide attack took place in the city of Liège in the Wallonia region of Belgium.[3]

The attacker, 33-year-old Nordine Amrani,[4][5] threw grenades and fired an FN FAL[6] rifle at civilians on Saint-Lambert Square. The attack killed six and left 125 others injured; seven of whom suffered serious injuries. Amrani then committed suicide by shooting himself with a revolver. Earlier that day, he had also murdered a woman in his house.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Liège_attack

[99Forever]

14. I see. So Norway is now part of the UK?

They will be quite surprised to hear that in Oslo.

[oberliner]

15. Huh?

Cumbria is part of the UK.

I identified some recent mass killings in various countries in Western Europe (Norway, UK, Czech Republic, Belgium) to emphasize that this is not just an American phenomenon, which seemed to be what you were suggesting.

[99Forever]

17. I don't...

... care for the terrorist organization nra's propaganda or those that spread it, so I just send them to my ignore list. Bye.

[oberliner]

22. Where are you getting this from?

There is no "NRA propaganda" happening here. I am one hundred percent opposed to the NRA and support gun control.

I only mean to point out that violence of this nature is a global problem and we ought to acknowledge that.

[marym625]

19. There is nothing like what we see here on a regular basis.

And I find your motives suspect.

This act of terrorism is part of an ongoing, every day occurrence in these United States. Every 28 hours a person of color is murdered by law enforcement. That's terrorism. Unprecedented. Unequivocal. Racist terrorist.

[oberliner]

21. I am honestly not understanding this reaction

The other poster that I made reference to "NRA propaganda" but I have nothing positive to say about the NRA and disagree with their POV completely and support gun control one hundred percent.

My only point is that there are horrific incidents of violence that occur in other countries like ours as well. I feel like this is a global problem and we ought to be united with those around the world who are addressing it.

[marym625]

23. Racism is a global problem

But there is nothing like what we see here. Nothing. The NRA is part of that. They are also part of the "it happens everywhere " message. Hence the reaction.

Additionally,though it does have to be addressed on a global level, we need to clean our own house first. We have no room whatsoever to address any problems anywhere else at this stage.

[oberliner]

24. Understood

I am not suggesting that we don't clean our own house first - what I am suggesting is that maybe there are lessons we can learn from each of these attacks, wherever they may occur, that can be instructive in terms of dealing with preventing future ones.

I honestly know next to nothing about the NRA so if I am inadvertently espousing views that they also espouse, it is not intended. I do know that gun control absolutely ought to be a top priority.

I was just thinking as I watched the initial court appearance of the Charleston killer that he reminded me of some of the other people who committed similarly heinous crimes around the world.

Maybe there is a way that we can stop people like this before they kill. I don't know.

[erronis]

25. And I agree with you - the USofA is not the sole font of hatred and killing

Yes, we have our own special blend of bigots, racists, and religious nuts. These have been brewed in the particular stew that is US history.

There are many other countries around the world that have recently experienced mass mayhem at a level that is much, much worse than happened here. Religious, tribal, even supposedly political.

I also agree with marym625 that this shouldn't be happening in this country. However racism is very strong around the world. Substitute race for ethnic or religious or language and we'll find plenty of examples of people killing each other at a very high rate.

[marym625]

28. Perhaps we can learn from other attacks

But we haven't so far. This was home grown, racist, terrorism. Learned from home grown websites, organizations, the government etc. we have to check ourselves.

[Fumesucker]

39. There's plenty around the world like what we see here, we just call it a different name

Sectarian ethnic cleansing, there have been many examples from Europe, Africa and Asia.

It feels different and somehow worse when it happens at home than when it is some other place, those people are different, they aren't like we are. We know better and they don't, they are fighting over stupid stuff like Protestant and Catholic or Sunni and Shia, who the hell cares about that enough to kill each other in cold blood?

If you go back far enough in history everything is blood and horror and terror and pain, most places you don't have to go back that far or even at all. Civilization is but a thin and delicate veneer over what is at heart a killer hominid.

[marym625]

42. Do you remember the song, One Tin Soldier?

I will have to find the article but there was a very old society that lived like the good guys in the song. An ancient society. And it did end because of another society coming in and killing just about everyone after they were invited to share.

So we make a choice. I choose to not live by the sword. But I also will not tolerate those that live with terror in their hearts and minds.

To say there are examples of this around the world diminishes what we can do and should allow. To say it was and always shall be, is not acceptable.

[Fumesucker]

47. Yes, it's been in my thoughts from time to time recently

Along with a few other songs as well.

Oh the games people play now
Every night and every day now
Never meaning what they say now
Never saying what they mean

It's so, so easy to divide people and so difficult to bring them together.

[marym625]

56. Love your last sentence

So very true.

I am not really sure what the lyrics you wrote meant for you in that reply. Do you think I'm not being direct? Or is it about what the media and officials are saying? If it's me, I'm not intentionally not being direct.

[Fumesucker]

58. I was thinking of our political class and our media

Not you...

[marym625]

5. There are people here, our DU family

That don't feel safe.

I just needed to add that.

[malaise]

6. Well if I had my way

a drone would tear down that flag to much cheering


Here's the sad truth - until Americans understand that the entire political system is racist, nothing will change.
Until America puts all of its citizens above special interests and profit, nothing will change.

[marym625]

7. Amen to that

There is truth to the fact that racism and misogyny are needed to keep the oligarchs in power.

I'm down with the drone taking down the flag. Might as well do something good with those things.

[malaise]

8. Precisely

The Feds should take it down

[marym625]

9. Can't believe it isn't already

And that speaks volumes

[lovemydog]

12. Thanks marym625.

My heart hurts too. Always has always will. I don't know what to say. Just that love conquers hate.

[marym625]

16. It may

But hate can't be ignored. It must be fought.

Thank you

[lovemydog]

18. Absolutely, hate must be fought.

Here's a thread where we're talking about how to fight it, my friend.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026860410

[marym625]

20. Thank you for the link

[appalachiablue]

26. The hate and racism must be eradicated: take the flags down, end Fox propaganda, create national

and state policy mandates to end this US horror and abomination rather than let it grow wild as it's done for 20+ years through hate media and allies. It's killing us and has to end, period.

[marym625]

30. +1000

[RKP5637]

27. Just the fact the flag still flies is very telling about TPTB in S.C. Hopefully, it will come down.

I often see the US as a nation of mourners. Tragic events occur, but little really seems to be done to change the paradigm that causes the tragedies. MSM eventually glosses over it, no more viewership profits and it falls off the table of importance.

[marym625]

31. Ain't that the truth!

I've been trying to find anything about the 5 year old. I watched multiple reports on CNN that played in a row. Each one was followed by a commercial. Every minute of news has a minute of commercial in between. That's just unbelievable

[orpupilofnature57]

32. Jimmy Carter addresed it 5yrs ago .

[marym625]

35. Thank you for this!

[daleanime]

29. ......

[marym625]

33. ...

[Jefferson23]

34. Those who are not the victims must be out front carrying the issue forward to meet a resolve.

There are problems I want to see given voice to..such as why don't we have
a summit on US race relations sponsored by our government? I am not sure how else
to bring voice to these very real issues. I tend to believe that when you give a platform
for people and organizations that encompasses their stories of abuse by the police, issues
in the work place etc these personal stories can resonate with the public at large.....we
need to appeal to more Americans hearts and sensibilities in order to see change for the better.

Consider too the opportunity it would be for the academics who study these problems
and can present data to curb the bullshit we hear in defense of the bigotry we know
to be true. When I hear we need to fight this problem on the state and local level
I would prefer to also hear about the feds role and how we are going to address corruption
within these cities and smaller communities police unions. They are unlike any other union
in the US.

I feel that you cannot legislate away all forms of racism and police violence because it
rests much deeper than that. Giving a personal face to it within the construct of a
summit with all the press there could be helpful to build a movement that would be
difficult to dismiss.

This approach can apply to other groups who feel the brunt of discrimination, gay community,
women's reproductive rights are also indeed another real concern.

I believe this would help to generate attention...I re-posted this as I first wrote it in
response to a thread about what our candidates could do and before this latest tragedy..but
feel it remains applicable today.

[marym625]

37. Good ideas

But we can legislate some of it. If we stopped allowing prosecutors to decide if a murdering cop should be charged, right there you are destroying the idea that cops can get away with murder because their victim us black.

That's just one way.

But we do have to have a national conversation without the bullshit and excuses.

[Jefferson23]

48. I agree, yet stressed the need for a summit which could entail pursuing legislation as you

say, and then some. There is no doubt in my mind that personal stories would
reflect many areas....the prison population/incarceration rate alone could bring
a change for the better. I feel Americans need to hear these stories from the
source, the victims front and center, televised for the entire country.

[KoKo]

36. Start Exposing the RW Hate Websites...? Put pressure on MSM to Expose? Here:

Sites that support violence against POC need to be exposed so that a National Dialogue begins about what these "hate sites" can do to influence troubled young people and expose the racist people behind the sites who are in it for the money,and/or, the political influence.
Groups like this prey on those who are disadvantaged, have mental health problems or have been abused in one way or the other, who don't have access to an opposing opinion in their communities or access to other viewpoints given our MSM which is trash.

Hate Radio and Faux News don't help the situation, either, but exposing the groups who sponsor Hate Web Media might be a start. If there are of these Websites run by Groups tied to Business Groups/Corporations or have advocates embedded in RW Think Tanks who have members who are Sponsors of Hate Speech in Media or on the Web....then the Corporations, Think Tanks, Business Groups/Organizations should be exposed publicly through "People Campaigns" to bring these Hate Mongers to light...so that the average person becomes aware of their agenda and what Hate causes when carried to extremes. That's what comes to my mind since Gun Control doesn't seem to be able to get much legislation that isn't reversed.

Nadin has a post up about this:

Almost 100 hate-crime murders linked to single website, report finds

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6869150


------------
Sorry about the Typo's and edits....as I was posting on the fly.

[marym625]

38. absolutely call out the GOP. but we have to call out our own as well

To remain silent now. To use religion as a hide, to do anything other than to demand that damn flag not be used as a symbol in any form of government, to shout down the racist propaganda, etc, is not allowed to go on.

Thank you for the link

[KoKo]

40. I wasn't suggesting using "Religion" as a hide in my post. I wasn't even talking about Religion.

Its exposing the Groups that Nadin Mentions, finding out who funds them and going after their support, RW Foundations, Think Tanks and Political Influence who prey on furthering Racial Divides for their own profits. There is a religious component but, behind the religion is MONEY and INFLUENCE.

[marym625]

43. That's not what I meant

Sorry. I wasn't trying to contradict you. Sorry

[KoKo]

45. No problem ...

you just hadn't gotten to Nadin's post yet and there was another post about religion or something I didn't see here until after I'd posted.

That might have been what you thought I was reacting to...but, I hadn't read it yet.

[marym625]

46. Just haven't had a chance

Though I thought I did. Hell getting old

[struggle4progress]

41. "Don't waste any time mourning. Organize!" - Joe Hill's telegram to Big Bill Haywood

[marym625]

44. Joe Hill

Power to the People

[guillaumeb]

53. The "monster" was not born a monster.

The monster, like Frankenstein, was created.

He was created by politicians who exploit racism to win votes, and
a section of the southern US that cannot accept that your civil war ended 150 years ago, and
that still fetishizes guns as means of resisting the US government, and
media celebrities who foment and profit from race hatred, and
an arms industry that massively profits from race fear and race hatred.


Every European nation and Canada have fairly strict gun regulations and control. NRA spokespeople talk about the supposed difference between the US and western Europe/Canada, as if there were some sort of genetic difference that explains the gun love common in the US.

Canada is nearly identical in ethnic composition to the US, but the rate of firearms death is much lower. Why? Sensible gun regulation and control.

[marym625]

54. +1000

We built this monster

The only thing that I would say differently, is about the Southern States.

There are as many racists in the North. I have chastised people up here about their racist crap many times. Even people who think they're liberal spout bullshit racist comments. Just look at DU.

Here's a post by William Pitt today speaking to that.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026871770

But on the NRA, dead on. They have to be taken down.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply

[guillaumeb]

59. Your reminder about racism not being a southern phenomenom is very true.

Chicago has a reputation, well deserved, as a very segregated city.

Thanks for the link to the William Pitt post.

[marym625]

61. Very much so, on Chicago

You're welcome. It was a great post, I thought

[laundry_queen]

55. And there it is

had to scroll to the bottom of the thread to find it, which too forever given DU is being ridiculously slow in loading for me today (wish I knew why). I've given up on several threads because of it today.

Anyhow, yes, I'm in Canada and your post is spot on. I was going to write more, but with how slow DU is being for me today, I may not get to the responses, and so, I'm just going to agree.

[marym625]

57. I hope you will write more tomorrow

I want to know what you are talking about

[guillaumeb]

60. If I may respond to your question:

In 1995 the Firearms Act was passed in the Canadian Parliament. Sensible gun control that in no way impedes a hunter from hunting, or a shooter from shooting.

Here is a link if you are interested:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/F-11.6/index.html

[marym625]

62. Thank you!

Sorry for the delay in responding. I'm having problems with my phone and computer.

Wish we could get that here. But I won't hold my breath