Hell yes, Hillary! She went there! Yes she did!

[leftofcool]

Mayor's Conference: She's talking about racism, white privilege, and gun control. She looks sad today, though. Give em hell, Hillary!

[gwheezie]

1. She's articulating what many of us struggle to say

She's not ambiguous at all. She's not hedging her bets. She's putting it out there.

[leftofcool]

2. She's going to get condemned by the NRA but I don't care!

She sure did put it out there!

[Boomerproud]

9. They don't want her (or any Democrat/Liberal) to exist

so go for it. What's there to lose, except our country.

[eggplant]

12. I disagree.

The NRA loves Dems -- how else to stoke the paranoia and thus more gun sales? They're nothing more than the gun manufacturers' lobby.

[Romeo.lima333]

20. correction:nra is the gun manufacturers' union

[bulloney]

44. I agree with Eggplant.

All the NRA and its stooges have had to do since Obama became president is just imply that the Black man in the White House is gonna take away your guns, and those big, brave souls go nuts and buy a shitload of ammo.

[brooklynite]

11. Fortunately, I think the Republican field is really mishandling this...

"anti-Christian"
"drug abuse"
"accident"

Not one candidate has been able to say something that will make black voters remotely comfortable. More to the point, I think this incident to going to get ride of that "why should I vote" meme that was circulating recently.

[Eleanors38]

17. There is a post linking the killings to trans operations.

[leftofcool]

37. Of course.

3....2....1... Pat Robertson says "the killer was going after Black gays."

[awoke_in_2003]

72. They don't give a damn about black voters

They don't want their white voters to face the truth.

[spanone]

39. good!

[lunamagica]

48. Getting condemned by the NRA just makes me admire her more. nt

[randome]

55. She'll be condemned by the anti-Hillary brigade on DU, too.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[jmowreader]

83. You mean that hasn't happened already? News to me!

[appal_jack]

22. Sure wish she would attack racism without also attacking Constitutional liberties.

In my estimation, racism is the root of the Charleston tragedy, and using the attack to call for more gun control is a mistake that will hurt Democrats.

-app

[MoonRiver]

23. Totally disagree

The incredible proliferation of guns in this country is why racists and lunatics can easily access weapons and go on killing sprees.

[gwheezie]

27. What did she say that you oppose?

Universal background checks? Restricting the sale of guns to abusers, criminals, mentally ill and terrorists? Who supports letting that group be able to legally buy guns?

[Merci2008]

46. Restricting sale of firearms.

I'm not sure what you mean by universal background checks. Yes criminals and especially the mentally ill need to be prevented from purchasing firearms. Needs to be a way of identifying those who should not purchase firearms and putting them on the no sale list. Then it needs to be enforced. The majority of high profile shooting are done by the mentally ill. How do they get identified and put on a list? Unfortunately for those who are determined to cary out their plan there are many other weapons available besides firearms.

[gwheezie]

56. How would identify dangerous people

Without background checks? For every gun sale the seller should go through a licensed gun dealer or sheriiffs office to run a background check. Any person adjudicated to be dangerous to have a gun by a court with all their rights protected need to be in a database. The dealer or sheriff runs the name with with proper id. There should be a legal mechanism to have your rights restored. Would you want to sell your weapon to someone who is a domestic violence abuser or has a violent crime record? Wouldn't you want to know?
As far as types of weapons, ammo etc I think that's a more difficult argument.

[gwheezie]

58. The sc has already said its legal to restrict guns

The argument is to what degree.

[JDPriestly]

81. Wouldn't that leave mentally ill people vulnerable to attacks by supposedly mentally healthy

but angry or racist or otherwise dangerous people?

There are a lot of problems with this.

How do you identify the mentally ill? Is that anyone who has sought psychiatric help?

It's just an unfeasible solution in my view. I favored it at one time, thought about it and cannot see how this could work.

A perfectly normal person can go into a manic state after depression for years and do some strange things.

Alcohol plays a role in a lot of crime and violence. Should all who drink alcohol be prohibited from owning guns.

Remember how Dick Cheney "accidentally" (we have to accept that explanation because no serious investigation was held as far as I know) shot one of his hunting or shooting companions? Was he mentally ill? Could he have killed his friend? Yes.

Guns are just very dangerous. We should all think carefully before acquiring or shooting them. The person we could hurt could be a family member or friend. And as with cars, none of us is careful enough or sane enough or blessed enough to be really sure that we won't make a mistake or suffer a nervous breakdown ourselves.

Guns are simply dangerous. And we all need to realize that. Each person must exercise his conscience and consider carefully before acquiring one.

My father used to say that if anyone wanted to kill him, they would have to bring their own gun. Very appropriate today. Your gun can be used against you. Carrying a gun does not really make you safer. That is a myth, an illusion. Guns are dangerous. So are cars. But you may need a car. No one really needs a gun unless they are in the military or law enforcement.

[gwheezie]

89. I know a little bit about this

I am a psych nurse. I do psych evals. Been doing this for 35 years. I am against a database of all people with a psych diagnosis. I am talking about people who have been to a civil court and been adjudicated to be unable to buy or possess a gun with a mechanism to vacate the order if challenged
We already do this but without universal background checks in order to buy a gun, the average person selling a gun has no way of knowing who they are selling it to.
I am reminded of a man who lost his gun rights who was able to later privately buy several guns. I'll never forget his sister. She visited him often and wanted to help her brother. Very warm and caring woman. He killed her and 7 other people. The person who sold him the guns had no way of knowing this quiet nice looking man had a history of psychosis and violence when not taking meds. I will never forget.
I do not want to stigmatize mental illness. In my decades working in this field the one thing that is a mighty somber burden is when we deny people their constitutional rights due to illness. I take it seriously. Denying gun ownership is the least of the rights the chronically mentally ill lose when an order is issued.
I don't understand why as a society if someone has beaten their wife several times we cannot know before selling them a gun. Or someone who has attempted suicide 5times. Why?

[JDPriestly]

104. Thanks. On the other hand, in an open carry state, people who are mentally ill but

at the moment neither suicidal or homicidal could be at a great disadvantage, could be very vulnerable. I don't know what the answer is.

[calimary]

50. Totally!!! Dear God I am SO freakin' sick and tired

Of the gun apologists pulling out their -"Oh No you can't go there! Can't touch this! Our RIGHTS! Well I'm not so entirely sure about the "sanctity" of that last part.

I think the 2nd Amendment needs revisiting. I do NOT think it's nothing more than a free pass to amass any ol' damn fucking gun you want. I do NOT think there's some alimighty inviolable free pass entitling the bearer to gun up as obscenely as one feels like doing.

How long has it been since the 2nd amendment was really seriously looked at and reevaluated to meet changing times?

Hillary was magnificent today. I was cheering out loud at my TV at what she was saying. I am SO with her on this. She said what needed to be said. Damn straight.

[llmart]

85. Agree 100%!

Great post. Time for those of us with some common sense to stop being afraid of what the gun nuts think. Time for Democrats to take a strong stand and come together on this issue. Time to take back our country from the NRA.

[calimary]

94. INDEED. "Time to take back our country from the NRA." An absolute.

I mean, look - there are challenges and revisions and changes to EVERYTHING, as time goes on, and laws need updating to respond to the changing needs of society.

We've certainly had time to revisit Roe v Wade. We've certainly had time to revisit the Civil Rights Act. And before anyone butts in and jumps on me and tells me I'm comparing apples to oranges because Roe v Wade and the Civil Rights Act are not technically "Amendments to the Constitution," and my argument is nonsensical or has no merit - we sure as hell have revisited the 15th Amendment!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

So I think it's HIGH TIME that the 2nd Amendment be revisited, and desperately needed adjustments made - to answer to and RESPOND TO the inevitably changing times. THE TIMES HAVE CHANGED. AND THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE HAVE CHANGED, TOO.

And we need to ask, pointedly, and in public, and REPEATEDLY: "What year is this?" "What CENTURY is this?"

[appal_jack]

84. "Common sense gun laws" is a slippery phrase.

Positively Bloombergian. Generally unsupported by Americans once the details come to light.

-app

[Spazito]

90. Are there any gun laws you find make sense...

or is it to be free and unfettered gun ownership full stop?

[appal_jack]

91. There are more than 20,000 gun laws in this country.

You'll understand if I don't discuss each one in detail, yes?

But, yes, I do support many of the big ones:

Items with rifled bores > .50 caliber require NFA permiits - yes,

Fully automatic weapons require NFA permiits - yes,

FFL's run background checks as part of the sale process - yes.

Other laws that exist in some places or are proposed are more problematic:

Prohibitions on standard capacity magazines - no,

Prohibitions on semi-automatic firearms - no,

Universal background checks - would support only if a fair and reasonable system could be developed to cover passing collections on to heirs, lending a firearm to a family member, and allowing range buddies to try out a firearm without having to do a pile of paperwork first.

That's my definition of common sense. What's yours?

-app

[Spazito]

92. So, common sense gun laws aren't a "slippery slope" to you...

quite the reverse it seems, you actually support them.

What is the need for semi-automatic firearms ownership by the average citizen?

What is the need for standard capacity magazines by the average citizen?

[appal_jack]

98. 1- It's a Bill of "Rights," not "Needs."

2 - Accepting some laws does not mean I need to embrace further arbitrary restrictions.

I outlined several big restrictions on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms that I had made my peace with. If gun control is a slippery slope, where I am at in NC in 2015 is a tolerable plateau (I would feel differently if I resided in MA, CT, NY, CA, NJ, etc.).

You seem to be the one calling for us accelerate downslope...

-app

[Spazito]

99. Why would you feel differently if you resided in MA, CT, NY, CA, NJ, etc. ?

Where in my post did I "seem to be the one calling for us to accelerate downslope"?

Edited to add: What is the practical use of a semi-automatic firearm and a standard capacity magazine? Is there one? If so, I am interested in learning what it/they are and, if not, why fight to own something that has no practical use?

[1StrongBlackMan]

100. What does the phrase ...

"A well regulated Militia ..." mean to you?

I still don't get why people neglect that part of the amendment, that clearly establishes the context of the right.

Well, really, I do; but ...

[randome]

57. Fuck pulling out the old 'Constitutional liberties' card!

Playing that card is like saying that everything we know today can be found and interpreted in the Bible, which is mindlessly stupid.

WE decide how to interpret our Constitutional liberties. You can't just put your fingers in your ears and mindlessly repeat "Constitutional liberties! Constitutional liberties!" just because you, personally, want people to have free access to guns.

It's ridiculous.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[appal_jack]

65. Um, that is EXACTLY the point of the Bill of Rights

Last edited Sat Jun 20, 2015, 11:48 PM - Edit history (1)

First off, the Bible is a collection of Bronze Age myths which some people believe are communicated to us by God as absolute truth, but others believe were the unfortunate result of superstition, patriarchy, and ergot fungus on stored grains. Much as some might wish to make the Bible the law of the land, it is not.

The Constitution, on the other hand, IS the law of the land. It was written less than 300 years ago by the people who founded this nation. It enumerates very specific powers of, and limitations upon government. One of the limitations stated in the Bill of Rights is that the "right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

If you don't like this limitation, the Constitution has a process for further amendment. You can try to undo the Second Amendment, but people like me will be on the other side of the issue, organizing and advocating in its defense.

As for interpretation, that's up to the Supreme Court. Lately, they have been better about the Second Amendment than you seem to wish. I don't always agree with their decisions in other cases, (particularly Fourth and Fifth Amendment cases as of late) but in this system, what they say goes.

SO no, it's not "me, personally."

-app

[awoke_in_2003]

74. "Well regulated militia"

Something this country doesnt have anymore since we have a standing army which includes the national guard. How the SC figured "well regulated militia"=a bunch of yahoos with guns is beyond me. Smith and Wesson paid off enough of them.

[George II]

40. Or many others are afraid to say.

[William769]

3. Hell yes! Thanks leftofcool.

They can burn me in effigy all they want. I know, I'm backing the right person in this primary.

[leftofcool]

4. You better believe it!

I think she lost the backing of the NRA. You suppose? LOL!

[Scuba]

5. Imagine all the votes she'll lose over this! Could almost reach double digits. Or not.

[appal_jack]

31. The sad thing is, she WON'T lose my vote over this...

Like I said upthread, I wish that Hillary would attack racism but not use the tragedy as an excuse to attempt a further erosion of Second Amendment rights. BUT, I'm the kind of pro-Constitutional liberty guy who also sees that reproductive freedom is under such relentless attack by Republicans that I will only vote for a pro-choice candidate (and thus a Democrat) in the general election. Second Amendment rights are (for now) comparatively more secure. So, there's that.

But Hillary is not really better than Republicans on far too many questions of rights & liberties. And I really don't think that I'm asking for too much when I seek out Democratic candidates who respect all individual liberties. Thus far, Bernie seems much closer to this ideal than Hillary ever was or will be. Thus, during the Primary season, Hillary has in fact lost my vote, not only due to gun control, but due to her cozy Wall Street ties, her pro-TPP work as Secretary of State (talk about a threat to indiviual liberties...), etc.

-app

[William769]

6. I know another Group she lost also.

But they are not Democrats anyway, so who gives a shit!

[leftofcool]

7. Yep!

[okasha]

49. We don't give even that much.

[Eleanors38]

18. The NRA doesn't like Sanders, either.

[bulloney]

47. As if she had any support from the NRA in the first place.

You know well that if Hillary is the Democratic candidate for POTUS, regardless of what she had said, the NRA will back the Republican candidate and smear Hillary as some gun nazi hell-bent on taking away your guns. Wayne the Peter wouldn't have it any other way.

[xmas74]

13. You and me both.

I attended a meeting just the other day to get it all off the ground in my area. I can't wait to help in whatever way I can-and my teenager is just as excited about helping.

[freshwest]

76. Wonder how many ignore the words because a woman is speaking, unable to hear strength. n/t

[ImaPolitico]

80. Woo, Hoo

Right on, Hillary. You go girl.

[ismnotwasm]

8. K&R

[Sheepshank]

10. She spoke with sincerity, power and heart

Waiting for the few inevitable handful to point out to me why this was the 2nd worse speech of all time.

[Spazito]

14. I was impressed with how strong and uncompromising she was...

in laying out the facts on racism, the need for common sense gun control and how she laid bare the truth of white privilege with the statistics she cited. Kudos to her, it was a very strong statement on multiple issues.

[erronis]

15. OK, I'm naive again and suckered in. Where are the speeches about the economy, poverty, etc.?

I feel like the little kid on the middle school playground. Hey, kid - want to come play with us? Eat dirt!

Every politician can say the words that will offend the least and appeal to the best (the base/the money).

We'll always have racism, stupidity, hatred, ignorance, guns, violence. We'll always have people that are pretty whacko and some of them will always be able to do horrible things, no matter our laws. We can vent and talk platitudes all we want. That's what politicians do.

What we need is some real opportunities and ability to help people in need - whether financial or mental.

We need people that represent us to really care about us, not their donors.

[Evergreen Emerald]

26. She has been talking about

economy and opportunity for the middle class for months. Her speeches are everywhere.

[erronis]

29. OK - anything about how Wall Street cratered the economy and bankrupted millions of families

While the bankers are building new schemes to do the same?

Does she support banking reform? I haven't heard her actually say that Elizabeth Warren is right about anything. Does she support the TPA/TPP/etc?

I like Hillary and would love to see her be the nominee and the president. I do think that her stated positions have been very lukewarm. However until she starts to concretely address the economic problems that this country has - and will have in spades soon, I can't support her over Bernie.

[Evergreen Emerald]

33. So, this speech is specifically addressing Gun Control

Are you suggesting that if her speeches do not name every topic every time you are going to attack her?

She has been very clear on her positions. And her speeches are available on the internet. Therefore, I do not believe your questions are genuine. I believe you are just poking at Hillary supporters to cause a fight.

Have a nice day.

[Hekate]

42. spot on and well spotted

[freshwest]

75. Income equality: $11K media black wealth vs. $134K white wealth. She laid it out. People wearing

blinders refuse to see POC are suffering the brunt of this. Get ready for the 'yeah, but's.

[Evergreen Emerald]

93. I saw that statistic--stunning

Is this gun control issue related? I am not sure I understand your point for this topic. Certainly economic issues are being addressed by Clinton. She has plans to deal with the economy as she has said a number of times.

But this specific speech was talking about racism, gun control, violence. I honestly wonder if people are just looking for ways to attack Clinton, even when she makes profound statements like this one.

[freshwest]

95. NOT attacking Clinton. Just readying for the racism not the problem, only income equality matters.

That's what I've read being said for a long time. This was rascism, that she addresses along with all other issues.

Discrimination creates income inequality, which she shows with the statistic. It's not the other way around as some preach who say social issues will take care of themselves so don't talk about it.

Those who discuss racism. etc., are not ignoring economics. There is no equation between the two things.

At the end she brings up love and kindness and I was crying. Yes, she made profound statements but her detractors don't want to discuss those things.

[Evergreen Emerald]

97. Thanks

I am sorry I misunderstood.

[freshwest]

103. Thanks, we are cool.

[leftofcool]

32. Today was not the venue for that.

She was speaking to mayors of cities.

[aikoaiko]

16. Hopefully, someone can post the transcript or link to a video.

[leftofcool]

30. Been looking and haven't seen one yet.

[RiverLover]

45. Here's the video~

Its a very, very good speech.

[abakan]

19. She can go there because...

She knows the people who are racist, privileged, and married to their guns, will not vote for her anyway. This is a win, win for her and will make for interesting debates with the repubs.

[uponit7771]

41. +1

[Tom Rinaldo]

54. Nott quite true

There are plenty of centrist to conservative Dems still out there, especially in rural areas. Remember in 08 how well she did in the West Virgina primary for example. Remember Pennsylvania too which is always an important swing state? She won Texas and Nevada too if I recall correctly. She risks losing some real voters over this

Yes I want her to take a clear stand on TPP for example, but taking a clear stance on guns is worthy of stand alone praise. She can be attacked for other things for other reasons.

[abakan]

61. I understand your point but I think we will have to wait and see...nt

[leftofcool]

67. No, we don't have to wait and see anything, Hillary was right on target with this speech.

[octoberlib]

21. K&R

[stevenleser]

24. K&R nt

[Iliyah]

25. K & R

On June 17, 2015 at approximately 9:00 p.m., at Mother Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal (AME) Church in Charleston, SC, where 9 worshipers were killed by gun fire, which also left several injured. One of the deaths was SC State Senator and Pastor of the Church, Rev. Clementa Pinckney, who hours before spent time with HRC at her campaign event. So yes, speaking about gun violence and racism truly was appropriate.

To be chastise for that and complaining about other issues not mentioned during this speech today in my opinion is unbelievable. HRC in the past have spoken on other issues important to the 99%ers, including, but not limited to, inequality, i.e. economy.

Nevertheless, to some it just does not matter because of the dislike to outright hatred.

Move forward HRC.

[Ninga]

28. Stunning in her delivery, tone and words. Nt

[etherealtruth]

34. Excellent

She confronted this head on ... the racism .... the guns

All three of our candidates have responded very well ... Martin O'Malley came out swinging as well.

I'm pissed that after working hard in the state of Maryland to pass real gun control—laws that banned high-magazine weapons, increased licensing standards, and required fingerprinting for handgun purchasers—Congress continues to drop the ball.

It's time we called this what it is: a national crisis.

I proudly hold an F rating from the NRA, and when I worked to pass gun control in Maryland, the NRA threatened me with legal action, but I never backed down.

So now, I'm doubling down, and I need your help. What we did in Maryland should be the first step of what we do as a nation. The NRA is already blaming the victims of yesterday's shooting for their own deaths, saying they too should have been armed. Let's put an end to this madness and finally stand up to them. Here are some steps we should be taking:

1. A national assault weapons ban.

2. Stricter background checks.

3. Efforts to reduce straw-buying, like fingerprint requirements.

Thanks to bigtree for posting this first http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026866482

[JaneyVee]

35. Powerful, powerful stuff. KNR!

[stonecutter357]

36. K&R!

[spanone]

38. k&r...

[Hekate]

43. KnR

[MineralMan]

51. She's speaking out strongly on this.

All candidates should be doing the same, IMO. It's too important a thing to skip.

[freshwest]

79. There is no reason for others to skip it as this goes to the heart of everything.

[OKNancy]

52. I watched the video. She was great

So well-spoken, heartfelt......

[lunamagica]

53. K&&

I can't wait to see her at the White House

[BigGLiberal]

59. Moving

This is one of the most moving speeches I've heard. Go Hilz. KnR

[Warren DeMontague]

60. I respect the fact that she is taking a principled if potentially politically difficult position.

I don't mean that snarky, I'm serious.

[rurallib]

62. Democrats standing on democratic priciples

there were times I thought we would never see the day again.

[ibewlu606]

63. NT

"She looks sad". Why wouldn't she? She's a great actor. Remember in the 2008 election she pulled that crying jag that garnered votes when things had gone south for her campaign? This person will do and say anything to get elected.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jan/10/hillaryclinton.uselections20082

[leftofcool]

66. You do know that Clementa Pinckney was a friend of her right?

She met with him the same day he was killed. For you to say she was acting is disgusting.

[ibewlu606]

68. NT

I think that whenever she talks about helping "everyday Americans" in the dialect of whatever region she happens to be speaking in that day is disgusting. Whenever I do something disgusting, it doesn't adversely affect millions of working families.

[mcar]

64. Appreciate this leftofcool

This is what we need to be hearing from our leaders. I applaud President Obama's remarks yesterday and those of Sen Sanders and Gov O'Malley.

[sheshe2]

69. Thank you, great news, leftofcool.

Brava to Hillary. I was working and missed it. I see someone posted a link.

I look forward to seeing this.

100th rec~

[juajen]

78. Her best, ever

I cried with her.

[Gothmog]

71. Hillary Clinton gave a great speech

[Cha]

73. The former secretary of state lauded the families of the Charleston victims, who Friday offered Roof

their forgiveness."

“In its way, their act of mercy was more stunning than his act of cruelty,” Clinton said.

Hillary Clinton Calls for 'Common Sense' Gun Control After Charleston Shooting

More..
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clinton-calls-common-sense-gun-control-charleston/story?id=31910937

Mahalo leftofcool

[McCamy Taylor]

77. Someone's got to.

[SunSeeker]

82. K & R

[llmart]

86. Wonderful, heartfelt speech.....

She's got my vote. She is an amazing woman. I want my baby granddaughter to see a woman President and have shining examples of powerful, caring women who don't back down from the difficult truths.

[MoonRiver]

87. ^^This^^

[packman]

88. Need strong voices - good job

would love to see a Hillary/Bernie ticket. Can see heads exploding, but would be a wonderful sight. This country needs a shock treatment .

[GummyBearz]

96. She said what any thinking/compassionate person should say at a time like this

And that gets her glorified praise? I knew the bar for politicians was low, but damn... I didn't realize how low

[JoePhilly]

101. Take a tums, you'll feel better.

[Thinkingabout]

102. K & R

One speech with many more to come.

[great white snark]

105. K&R

[Number23]

106. This is a good start. And all three of those topics are very much intertwined.