Chief Justice Warren Burger on the gun lobby

[marym625]

How disappointed he would be in what has been allowed to happen in this country.

The NRA must be taken down

[world wide wally]

1. Absolute proof that the only thing that matters anymore is money

and the NRA gets more every day. They must throw a party every time something like this happens because the idiots in our Idiocracy throw more money at them to fend off the assault on our "Constitutional Rights" to have the capacity to blow away masses of innocent people.

[marym625]

2. It's beyond disgusting.

I am truly flabbergasted that so many have been so easily manipulated. But when you have officials that are bought and paid for, a press that does nothing but what the corporate gods instruct and an uneducated public, this is what you get

[onehandle]

3. The only reason SCOTUS made that bad 'decision'...

...is that it wasn't a decision at all.

It was a giant partisan gift to the gun industry and free campaign contribution to the Republican Party.

The proof is Citizens United. Also, not a decision.

Gun culture is a plague on society and like the Confederacy, should be buried.

[img][/img]

[marym625]

5. +1000

[aikoaiko]

4. iirc, the quote is from a news show, but it was preceded by an article in Parade

http://www.guncite.com/burger.html

Americans also have a right to defend their homes, and we need not challenge that. Nor does anyone seriously question that the Constitution protects the right of hunters to own and keep sporting guns for hunting game any more than anyone would challenge the right to own and keep fishing rods and other equipment for fishing -- or to own automobiles. To "keep and bear arms" for hunting today is essentially a recreational activity and not an imperative of survival, as it was 200 years ago; "Saturday night specials" and machine guns are not recreational weapons and surely are as much in need of regulation as motor vehicles.

[marym625]

6. Thanks for the reference.

Those are weapons of war. There is no reason to have them in your home or walking down the street.

[jimmy the one]

9. 2nd amendment, worthless & obsolete

aikoaiko .. the quote is from a news show, but it was preceded by an article in Parade .. Parade Magazine, January 14, 1990, Warren E. Burger, Chief Justice : Nor does anyone seriously question that the Constitution protects the right of hunters to own and keep sporting guns for hunting game any more than anyone would challenge the right to own and keep fishing rods and other equipment for fishing -- or to own automobiles.

As an ancillary right, or ancillary ability better said, to use firearms for hunting; but the 2nd amendment pertains to a militia centric point of view, where the militia is either predominant or included in the 'rkba' (right to keep & bear arms corollary to the well reg'd militia proposition). There wasn't an 'individual centric' rkba where hunting was the prevailing reason.

Of course, aikoaiko, apparently a pro gun enthusiast, presents a one sided argument to temper burger but which really misleads, where the fuller context of warren burger's quote reveals his true intent (& also readers, please read my sign off signature, which I've used for years now).

warren burger: We see that the need for a state militia was the predicate of the "right" guaranteed; in short, it was declared "necessary" in order to have a state military force to protect the security of the state. That Second Amendment clause must be read as though the word "because" was the opening word of the guarantee. Today, of course, the "state militia" serves a very different purpose. A huge national defense establishment has taken over the role of the militia of 200 years ago.

The huge national defense establishment is in good part what has rendered the 2ndA obsolete, & actually counter productive in modern times. Other reasons include far more sophisticated firearms today than single shot musquettes then, & the absence of a well regulated citizen's militia which has been replaced by a 'select' militia called national & state guards (which, along with the standing army, is what the founding fathers were afraid of).
2ndA, worthless & obsolete.

warren burger: If we are to stop this mindless homicidal carnage, is it unreasonable:
1.{background check} to provide that, to acquire a firearm, an application be made reciting age, residence, employment and any prior criminal convictions?
2. {waiting period} to required that this application lie on the table for 10 days (absent a showing for urgent need) before the license would be issued?
3. {registration, & close gun show loophole} that the transfer of a firearm be made essentially as with that of a motor vehicle?
4. to have a "ballistic fingerprint" of the firearm made by the manufacturer and filed with the license record so that, if a bullet is found in a victim's body, law enforcement might be helped in finding the culprit?
These are the kind of questions the American people must answer if we are to preserve the "domestic tranquillity" promised in the Constitution.

[marym625]

13. +1000

I am afraid of the possibility of a lock here. Not sure if this falls under the "except" criteria due to the terrorist attack in South Carolina or not. It should.

Thanks

[aikoaiko]

19. I think that quoted paragraph shows how confused and/or disingenuous Burger was

Take this part:

Americans also have a right to defend their homes, and we need not challenge that. Nor does anyone seriously question that the Constitution protects the right of hunters to own and keep sporting guns for hunting game any more than anyone would challenge the right to own and keep fishing rods and other equipment for fishing -- or to own automobiles.

The firs two sentences are essentially agreeing with Heller. The people, not militias, get to keep and bear arms for many reasons -- not just to form a well-regulated militia -- which I know is devastating to those who wish to ban guns.

Speaking of banning guns, he is completely wrong or lying that there are people who would challenge hunter's rights to own firearms for hunting. You can see on this very board the calls for "ban all guns".

To "keep and bear arms" for hunting today is essentially a recreational activity and not an imperative of survival, as it was 200 years ago; "Saturday night specials" and machine guns are not recreational weapons and surely are as much in need of regulation as motor vehicles.

His opinion of what is imperative of survival and what is recreational is his opinion and not based on law.

Further more, in 1990, machine guns (and to a lesser extent cheaper handguns), were and are far more regulated than motor vehicles. By 1990, new machine gun were illegal to sell to non-LEO civilians, the NFA required registration and taxation since 1934, top-secret level backgrounds checks were required, and local LEO had to approve the purchase of a used machine gun.

[madokie]

7. From time to time

I'll get a letter from the NRA telling me that I need to join. Instead I call the 1-800 number and go off on the person I get to talk to and demand that I be taken off their mailing list. And when they ask me why I tell them why. Because I'm a Veteran who lived by a gun for 15 months and I'll be damned if I live by one now and that I do not, repeat do not agree with the NRA on any issue so take me off your mailing list. It works for around a year then I'll have to repeat myself but I like repeating my self especially on this issue. You'd think they'd get the picture after a while but so far in the last 40 years I've had to repeat this many times.

[marym625]

8. hmm.

Do you know how you even got on their list? I don't think I have ever received anything from them.

Good for you for being proactive on that and not just throwing the stuff aw6

[madokie]

10. Not sure

At one of the plants I worked at years ago was a fine old guard that I liked and we'd talk as I came though early in the mornings. He was always handing out nra bullshit and even though I didn't ever take any I think he added my name. Back then all you needed to get mail was a name and a town and the mail man would bring it right on out cause even if the envelope didn't have an address he knew you and where you lived so out of his thinking he was being courteous he would deliver the piece of junk mail.

[marym625]

15. wow

That's a small town!

[pangaia]

11. If you think it is hard getting off the NRA mailing list,

you should try getting off the AARP mailing list.

[madokie]

12. LOL

You got that right. I gave up on that a long time ago.

[marym625]

16. Are you allowed off the AARP mailing list?

Is that even legal?

[pangaia]

18. You don't want to see what I scribbled last time I sent

something back to them.
I doubt THAT is legal.

[marym625]

21. If you want to share

I want to know

[pangaia]

24. Mary, no. You really don't wnat to know. :>))

Actually I can't even remember it all.
I got another solicitation.. a really thick obnoxious one..

So I finally responded.. Checked the "I ANT TO JOIN" box on the envelope to be sure somebody opened it.

I forget it all..
lots of s**t, F***ERS, even RAT F***ERS,... Shove this UYA...


Ok, that's enough. I've been listening to the Tchaikovsky Violin Competion from Moscow and don't want to ruin the sublime playing of Clara-Jumi Kang with more negativity.

[marym625]

27. Good for you

Thank you. Enjoy the music

[pangaia]

28. Would you like a link?

It is possible it could make your day...

[marym625]

30. No. But thank you. Not my cup of tea. :)

[Major Nikon]

14. Ammosexuals pretend the first part of that amendment doesn't exist

Many of the same people pretend the Civil War had nothing to do with slavery.

[marym625]

17. ammosexuals!

Ha!

Yeah, that bullshit about the civil war being about anything else is just that, bullshit.

[Electric Monk]

20. k&r

[lovemydog]

22. Very well-said marym625.

The NRA gun lobby has devolved from a 'responsible firearms' group to a way too powerful and influential money-making propaganda machine.

There are so many ways that responsible firearms owners can get behind sane gun control legislation. Background checks. Limiting the number one can own. Banning semi-automatic weapons. Assault rifles. All sorts of stuff. Just like cars and driving are regulated.

We must fight gun violence on every front. Every single front.

[marym625]

25. Thanks but I didn't say it. Would be great if I could claim this!

[hifiguy]

23. And Burger, C.J., was no one's idea of a bleeding-heart lefty.

He was absolutely correct about this.

[marym625]

26. God no!

Conservative he was. But so intelligent.

[WillyT]

29. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[marym625]

31. Thank you, Willy!