Sen. Bernie Sanders On How Democrats Lost White Voters

[William769]

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2014/11/19/365024592/sen-bernie-sanders-on-how-democrats-lost-white-voters

".. this country has overcome racism.."?! You can't fix a problem you don't know is there.

"you should not be basing your politics based on color.."?! How insulting.

".. And, you have an Hispanic community looking to the Democrats for help.. but, that's not important".. uh huh.. tell that to Hispanic Community, Bernie.

African Americans and “the working-class people of this country” shouldn't be in separate categories….

[arcane1]

1. Is there a contortionist convention in town?

Lame

[Cheese Sandwich]

76. Can you imagine if Bernie had said something like this? I think he would be toast.

Here's a recording of Hillary explaining how she is loved by the hard working Americans, the White Americans.

[PDJane]

2. Democrats lost voters,

Both white and black, and everything ele, because they moved to the right and became impotent.

[BainsBane]

5. 94 percent of African Americans vote Democratic

Whites (59%), especially white men, predominately vote Republican. Those are the facts as supported by exit polling data.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president/exit-polls

[AgingAmerican]

37. Given the choice between a Democrat who acts like a Republican

...and an actual Republican, voters will choose the real Republican every time.

[840high]

58. ....

[BainsBane]

95. You mean white voters

not voters, since I just demonstrated that black voters overwhelmingly vote Democratic. Why would you then turn around and use voters without a signifier?

If, as you say, being like a Republican is bad, then I suggest we stop trying to appeal to the demographic that supports the Republican party. I find it ironic that those who complain that the party is too much like the GOP are the ones most anxious for it to act like the GOP. Voters of color are not a special interest or an after thought. They are the base of the Democratic party, and no Democrat wins office without the support of them and unmarried white women.

[AgingAmerican]

97. Something went over your head

If someone votes Democratic, they would not vote for an ersatz Republican. You make no sense.

[davidpdx]

114. A lot of things go over that person's head

This is the same person who claimed only 10-15 Clinton supporters remain on DU.

[Sheepshank]

119. Bull

Why, just here on DU people (primarily Bernie supporters) are saying Hillary may be a like like a Republican, but if she gets the nomination they will vote for her and never for a Rpublican. So your "every time" statement does make sense.

[progree]

94. White women too, by a 13% margin went for Romney over Obama in 2012

http://elections.reuters.com/#poll <-I can't find the poll anymore but this is where it came from.


But yes, a higher percentage of white men voted for Romney than white women ... Amongst whites, the below link says the gender gap was 3.1% between married white men and married white women, and 6.1% between single white men and single white women.
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2012/11/heres-other-exit-poll-data-that-nobody.html

[font color = red]On Edit:[/font]
On white people - this one has a much larger gender gap:

Obama lost white men 62-34 ((28% difference)) to Romney in 2012. He lost white women 56-42 ((14% difference))
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023990340

[BainsBane]

96. Yes, but especially men

and if you break it down further, married women tend to vote Republican and single and divorced women vote Democratic, even white ones.

However, that data should demonstrate just how crucial the votes of people of color are to Democratic victories, and why this site doesn't approximate the demographic of the country, let alone the Democratic party.

[progree]

100. True on men. (paragraph) Here's a breakdown of the white female vote

http://elections.reuters.com/#poll

Well, that is where I got this according to my notes, but will have to struggle awhile to get to the right page again. Anyway, my notes say:

--v--Margin by which white females voted for Romney over Obama
[font color = red]
+13% white females overall

+24% married white females
+ 5% unmarried white females[/font] [font color = blue]

-18% never married white females
-39% living with partner white females

-35% heterosexual and living with partner white females

[/font]

Indentation is used to indicate subcategories. Red indicates categories that voted more for Romney than Obama. Blue is for the opposite -- voted for Obama more than Romney.

Anyway, even unmarried white females (as a group) favored Romney too, by a margin of 5%, at least in this exit poll. Its those 3 blue subcategories of unmarried that broke in the Obama direction.

Fascinating.

[valerief]

131. But exit polls don't line up with counted votes anymore. Not since

vote-flipping electronic voting machines. Exit polls used to be reliable, but how people vote and how their votes are counted are two different animals.

[BainsBane]

141. There is no reason to suggest that vote flipping

is taking black votes away from Republicans. I submit the proportion remains the same regardless.

[merrily]

140. Well, 94% of African Americans who voted in the 2012 Presidential and were exit polled.

[BainsBane]

156. Amazing how many of you seem troubled more black votes don't go to Republicans

We should reject exit polling data because you find the results inconvenient. Why would you even want to dispute them? I don't get this world you folks live in where you have a problem with voters who cast their votes for the Democrats. Or is the problem it suggests that groups besides your own might actually be important?

[merrily]

157. You pulled that right out of

your smear ear.

[bettyellen]

124. You mean white voters- don't you? Since we didn't lose black voters

That is what he is talking about, unfortunately.
Don't bring in race unless you want the full conversation. He vastly underestimated voters of color here, and is dismissive of acknowledging their interests as important.

[delrem]

3. The USA *did* overcome racism enough to elect Barack Obama.

That *is* a triumph -- it is totally positive.
It's offensive to claim that Bernie says that the USA has overcome racism - and that he doesn't know the problem is there.

That's just offensive.

He's saying that these are obvious foundations.

[William769]

4. He's the one that said it not me.

And I agree, it is offensive.

[delrem]

6. He did NOT say that. YOU snipped the quote into something absolute.

It is YOUR statement, your insinuation, that is offensive.

I really think Hillary Clinton's supporters should rethink their attempts to cast Bernie Sanders as a racist misogynist.
It reflects back on you.

[BainsBane]

7. How dare he quote Sanders

That's an NPR interview. You can listen to it yourself. You don't need to believe your lying eyes.

[delrem]

9. He just did what you are famous for. n/t

[BainsBane]

13. Really, what is that?

Quoting people when they prefer not to be reminded of something?

[AgingAmerican]

35. Wildly out of context partial quotes

nt

[BainsBane]

52. How is the quote out of context?

You have the entire interview you can read or listen to yourself. He listed a couple of quotes you can easily ignore, but they aren't the problem. The fact is some don't like what Sanders says, so you are blaming the messenger. That is the problem with politics based on personality. You all decided he was the One and now you insist only adoration be posted. I'm guessing you all did the same thing 8 years ago, which is how you managed to feel "betrayed" by Obama. That is how people make uninformed comments about his promising Single Payer or feeling betrayed by escalation in Afghanistan, when anyone who watched the debates and actually listened knew his positions on those issues. Not paying attention to what the candidates say when it doesn't suit you is never going to end well. You have decided Sanders is more important than the people he seeks to represent.

Now, I don't for a second thing you have any problems with Sanders interview, so let's not pretend you care about the quotes. Getting pissed off at me doesn't change what he said. It doesn't change the fact this interview is getting attention in the African American press. Bill and I are the least of his problems. Sanders doesn't need our votes, but no Democrat wins without African American support. They are the base of the party.

[AgingAmerican]

64. By purposefully mis-interpreting what was said

It's a dishonest tactic, used by highly partisan people with no ammo, but a dire need to attack anyway.

The term is "Manufactured outrage".

Reminds me of the GOPs "I built that" fallacy, and it has about as much integrity.

It says more about the person who wrote the OP and it's defenders than it does about Mr. Sanders.

[BainsBane]

90. He provided the entire interview

and the link. The quotes were verbatim. This is the only part that isn't a direct quote:
African Americans and “the working-class people of this country” shouldn't be in separate categories.

Eight words, including prepositions. Yet the entire interview is there so you don't even need to pay attention to the quotes. Look at the interview. That is the part that matters, and you are doing everything you can to pretend it doesn't.

You consider it manufactured outrage because you don't believe it matters. Yet despite that you manage to get upset. You go ahead and try to suppress the news and scream up and down about anyone who dares to repost it. It matters not one bit because it's being reported on AA websites and in the black press. That is what matters.

You ought to be upset. Candidates can't say that shit and try to get elected in the Democratic Party. Those comments are very common among Republicans, but not Democrats. Then of course, Sanders isn't a Democrat, is he? So in that sense it's not surprising that he doesn't speak like one.

[AgingAmerican]

92. Which he took wildly out of context

I notice you have not yet recommended this fine piece of detective work. Why might that be?

OPs like this stem from supporting the inferior candidate. If you have the better candidate, invented smears like this are not at all necessary.

When I see manufactured outrage like this, the person is REALLY telling me their candidate, or position, basically sucks. That is why the GOP do this all the time. Because they perpetually are wrong and run the inferior candidate.

It's a form of cognitive dissonance IMHO.

[ismnotwasm]

115. What was the context, in your opinion?

I don't agree and I'd like to hear your point of discussion.

[Aerows]

195. You have batted it out of the park

ran the bases, and your detractors are still wondering where the ball is.

Great job, Aging.

[pacalo]

217. Bravo.

[bettyellen]

123. You meant he wasn't talking about how and why POC vote as "unimportant"

I'm seriously trying to figure out what else he could have been referring to as unimportant.
Whether he is speaking about their concerns or of demographic voting patterns- it's still tone deaf and oversimplification at best.

Sounds like he put his foot in his mouth- I don't know.

It's not a huge stretch to look at this as doing political calculus and deciding voters of color aren't worth it if he's trying to sway back former Dems. And to say we lost them only because of economics- well, that's fucking stupid. We all know we bled out the racists years ago. Do we really want their votes?

[AgingAmerican]

214. Nothing you just said

Has anything to do with what Bernie said, whatsoever, and you know it. Your interpretation are your words and thoughts, not Bernies. Again, more manufactured outrage.

I will never understand why Hillary supporters feel they have to do this.

[1StrongBlackMan]

228. You (and others) protest ...

that the quotes have been taken out of context ... even, wildly so.

You (and others) have been asked several times to place the quotes into their proper context; and, rather than doing so continue "BettyEllening" about "interpretations" and "manufactured outrage."

If you feel/interpret the quotes to be so clearly and wildly out of context, you should have no problem establishing them into their proper context.

[bettyellen]

230. Not just my interpretation- but I'm sure you already knew that.

Like it or not candidates make choices.
I want to know why he'd say regarding abortion:
"Let's have our differences". You think women can't do the math?



http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/06/03/matters-bernie-sanders-doesnt-talk-race-gender/

[Thinkingabout]

25. Perhaps you should take a few minutes to follow the link provided in the thread and then correct

Your post.

[delrem]

31. My post is correct.

I think your imputation, that Sanders is unaware of race issues in the USA, is both absurd and offensive.
Bye.

[Thinkingabout]

65. I listened to Bernie in his own voice, would you want to call Bernie out for what he said?

[delrem]

69. I don't have a clue wtf you're talking about, at this time.

Are you claiming to be the voice of Bernie Sanders?

Is that it?

[Thinkingabout]

71. Did you follow the link in the thread?

[delrem]

72. .

[Thinkingabout]

74. Gotcha.

[delrem]

79. My post is correct.

I don't know what you're about.

[Thinkingabout]

125. You said:

He did NOT say that. YOU snipped the quote into something absolute.





It is YOUR statement, your insinuation, that is offensive.


If you want to continue too deny what Bernie said then you are saying Bernie does not know what he is saying.

[delrem]

171. Yes, I did say that, and it is correct. BYE!

[Thinkingabout]

172. Truth is better accepted than to continue to run away from truth.

Bernie knows what he said and it has been recorded.

[snagglepuss]

68. ^^^^THIS^^^^

[cali]

14. hey, wanna give a listen to hillary's bigoted anti-LGBT speech all about the sanctity of

marriage? Or how about a stroll down memory lane to her 2008 dog whistle campaign and her appeal to "hard working WHITE Americans"? Ooh, I know, her comment just a few months ago about deporting children.

There's lots more, too!

And bernie is right that the country had to overcome a truckload of racism to elect Obama. He was not saying that racism is dead

[William769]

19. Oh so you don't want to discuss what the OP is about

You want to talk about something that has been posted umpteen times. Guess what? The OP is still here and it's not going to go away.

But feel free to keep posting what been rehashed here time & time again.

[William769]

24. I'm a proud Gay Man that has no problem whatsoever voting for Hillary.

But go ahead and keep dodging the OP. I know the truth hurts.

[MineralMan]

166. She can't answer. She's off on a vacation from DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=152034

[Tarheel_Dem]

190. Oh my.

[NCTraveler]

301. Keep going William.

That level of passive-aggressive behavior is why I have been here less. You promote yourself and all issues you speak to with class. When you do take a shot it is either witty, funny, or actually stings.

[NanceGreggs]

57. The OP is about ...

... Bernie Sanders and a statement on why he believes Democrats lost white voters.

And yet you are berating someone for "having trouble with facts" about their candidate.

I appreciate the irony - which you obviously don't - of repeatedly changing the topic of discussion in this thread to a different candidate (HRC) and her statements on a different subject (same-sex marriage).

It would seem rather obvious who has a problem responding to "facts" about their own candidate - and who has repeatedly shown that they are "awfully anxious to avoid them".

[sheshe2]

98. Address the OP or make your own. nt

[NCTraveler]

302. Thread jacking at its best.

Completely ignore the op and make a point in order to distract.

[uponit7771]

270. So you're agreeing with Bernies position on America overcoming racism?! tia

[delrem]

287. I think it slithered that way ->, uponit7771

[dsc]

8. Some of our loss might be economics

but I think most of it has been our support of civil rights, gay rights, and rights for immigrants. I don't think economics is that much of the problem.

[delrem]

17. Equal rights for all persons under the law is an universal ground of progressive thought.

That is as close as close can be to being absolute.

From what I can see, Dems across the spectrum are united on this.

The right to join a union might well be called a social right (like "free association&quot , even if it isn't the same kind of thing as the right of people from "identifiable groups" to go about their business without being subject to harassment.
The right to unionize, where it exists and insomuch as it exists, is also an "economic issue" -- as for example we ask whether it's wise to join economies on an equal playing field with countries which criminalize union membership. How would that impact "worker's rights" as opposed to the rights of investment capital?

[BainsBane]

20. Well said

I agree completely, despite your personal jab above.

[dsc]

21. I certainly don't think we should change our positions on civil rights, gay rights, or immigration

and I would prefer a more pro union policy from our party but I also don't think it would gain that many white voters. It might give us some, and that some, combined with our current coalition would be quite impressive, but the fact is we won't gain all that much.

[delrem]

26. What has this got to do with "white voters". I mean, wtf?

wtf??

[dsc]

38. the op is about white voters

and to be specific Sanders theory that our lack of consistency in terms of liberal economic policies is why we are getting a low percentage of white voters. The fact is, I think it is our consistent support of civil rights, gay rights, and immigration that has been the reason for our performance among those voters. Again, I don't think we should change those policies, nor am I opposed to more liberal economic policies but I think that they won't gain many white voters. We should embrace those policies because they are good policies not because we think that the policies will gain us white votes.

[delrem]

51. It's about working class people *in general*.

It is not about white vs black. It's about conjoining the issues facing working class people.

A *spin* is given when quotes are truncated to exclude the context, as in this OP.
Don't tell me otherwise, because the spin is given. That's fact.

Once that is done, it becomes an issue "Bernie the racist vs. Hillary the non-racist", following a "Bernie the misogynist vs Hillary the non-mysogynist", and a "Bernie the gun nut vs. Hillary the non-gun-nut" series that Hillary's supporters have been promoting - along with promoting the false idea that there exists an economic vs social justice dichotomy. Your tactic is despicable.

[dsc]

54. we aren't losing black or Hispanic working class voters

we just aren't. What we are losing is white working class voters and frankly I don't think liberal economic policies will change that more than at the margins. You can call me names until the cows come home and give birth to aliens but that doesn't change the fact that the only working class people who aren't voting for us are white working class voters.

[delrem]

56. Of course you aren't! The USA just elected Barack Obama!

Twice!

So own it!

Now listen to Bernie Sanders discuss economic issues, and don't try to pin some kind of "racist" or "misogynist" label on him.
Because that isn't fair, or wise.

[dsc]

62. again, I am not disputing that Obama won

but the fact is we did so without winning the white working class vote, iin point of fact he got a lower percent of that vote than Kerry did in his loss to Bush. The fact is I don't think it is economic policy that explains that performance. I could be wrong on that but the data suggests I am not.

[delrem]

67. I'm glad you're not disputing that Obama won!

Now listen to Bernie talk about economics, as an equal opportunity sport - without trying to label him as a racist or misogynist, or whatever.

I don't see any reason why Bernie Sanders' message negates the message of Obama '08, especially.
For what it's worth, I think Bernie Sanders might find it even harder to be president than Obama, in this milieu, because Sanders definitely does have "socialist tendencies", and politicians have been killed across the world for worse.

[Bonobo]

10. Cool! Another Hillary supporter implying that Bernie is racist! How fucking unique! nt

[William769]

11. Not implying.

Just posting what he said.

[Maedhros]

27. He's right - we shouldn't vote for someone because of their race.

You mock this idea. By your logic, people of color should be voting for Ben Carson in the general. I don't find that logical at all.

[BainsBane]

88. One AA President in the history of this country

and they vote based on race? Like us white people have been voting based on race our whole lives by voting for white guys. Do you not get how dismissive that comment is? AAs voted for Obama in close to the same proportion they have voted for other Democratic presidential candidates in recent years.

You can blame the messenger all day long, but the fact is Bill learned of this interview because it is getting coverage in the African American media. Now it's obvious people here not only don't give a shit about comments like this but you go so far as to affirm them. However, I can tell you many African Americans don't looks so favorably on them and unlike people here, they don't believe Sanders' career is more important than how politicians speak about how they exercise their democratic rights.

That voting based on race comment is straight from the GOP. It's shameful that he said it and even worse that some think it acceptable to affirm it. One black president out of 250 years of this country. AAs have been voting for white people their entire lives, as long as they can vote. The rest of us, on the other hand, have been voting exclusively for presidents of our own race.

You ought to be worried about how African Americans vote. They vote for Democrats, and there is no sign that is going to change. Comments like this certainly aren't going to help that.

[1StrongBlackMan]

233. But that is NOT what he said ...

we shouldn't vote for someone because of their race.

What he said was:

You should not be basing your politics based on your color. What you should be basing your politics on is, how is your family doing?

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2014/11/19/365024592/sen-bernie-sanders-on-how-democrats-lost-white-voters

But that is really revealing, in that it displays a stunning lack of incite into the Black electorate ... our politics MUST BE based on our color BECAUSE our color largely determines how policies/politics affects our lives.

His call for one's politics to be based on how one's family is doing, ignores PoC's lived experience ... How the families of PoC are doing IS a matter of how policies/politics affect them as PoC, and this includes; BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, our economic status!

This is what the economic primacy crowd seems to NOT (or, not want to) understand or recognize.

[uponit7771]

272. +1, my eyebrow raised a couple of times in this interview... The "america has overcome racism"

... is wow

[1StrongBlackMan]

279. Well ...

We did elect a Black President. Isn't that proof positive we are in a post-racial society?

[uponit7771]

281. I'm Hip,... this interview was 8 months ago so I pray his ear has gotten a lot less tin when it come

...comes to non whites

[riderinthestorm]

33. Yeah, just posting what Hillary said about gay marriage

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026849107

[1StrongBlackMan]

235. This thread isn't about what HRC, or what anyone else, said. n/t

[AgingAmerican]

47. Except it's what you say he said

It isn't what he actually said.

Your OP is revolting and dishonest, and denotes a lack of integrity on your part.

[CANDO]

93. "You didn't build that"

It's a nice blatantly ignorant game you're playing, just like the cons played with the above quote.

[cali]

15. time to kick your video of hilly's bigoted speech on the "sanctity" of marriage

[Bonobo]

22. I think I will do just that. nt

[Cheese Sandwich]

12. Go ahead and cry when you listen to this tape of Hillary Clinton race baiting Senator Obama in 2008

[cali]

18. enough is enough. post it

[Cheese Sandwich]

36. Maybe some other time.

Right now I don't feel like it but you can always post it of course if you're in the mood for that sort of thing.

[Cheese Sandwich]

159. Well I posted that in GD, and it was a disaster...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026871351

It got hidden by a jury.

I don't know what's going on around here. This site is different than I thought.

[zappaman]

175. This site can be nuts sometimes!

Back in February, there was a poster going nuts saying Sid Dithers was Skinner!
Funny stuff!
He was banned for being a return troll.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=319755

[Cheese Sandwich]

176. Sid Dithers sent me mail today and asked if I was "Ramses" ...

Now you are giving me a link to that same user's profile and also naming Sid Dithers.

Whatever you people are doing, with the gossip and intrigue, I want no part of it.

I blocked mail from Sid Dithers.

[Thinkingabout]

28. Did you cry when you listened to Bernie?

I guess Hillary is doing better in 2015 than 2008, I'll take this.

[merrily]

139. Hmmm .

Dual Citizenship-Anti Semitic

Someone who worked all his life for racial justice getting smeared as clueless about race.

[Thinkingabout]

142. So you are saying Bernie is smearing himself.

[merrily]

143. Um, no.

[Thinkingabout]

146. You posted:

"



Dual Citizenship-Anti Semitic

Someone who worked all his life for racial justice getting smeared as clueless about race."

Bernie is the one talking, any smears belongs to the one talking.

[merrily]

147. Nothing in my post indicated Bernie was the speaker of the words in my post.

[Thinkingabout]

149. The link is posted in the thread, if you listen you will hear Bernie speaking.

[merrily]

150. Poster, please. You replied to my post, which was about smears being laid on Bernie by others.

Very reminiscent of how Obama was smeared in 2008, too.

[Thinkingabout]

152. What thread are you posting? Apparently you did not follow the thread because you would know

this is Bernie speaking. Bernie said the "smears" in some posters eyes and ears in this thread. Tell Bernie not to say these things again.

[merrily]

153. I replied to you, to what you said, and you replied to me. It's called a subthread.

When I want to comment on an OP, I reply to the OP, not to you.

[JaneyVee]

16. Yeah it was misspoken. He could've said it better...

But I see his larger point. Unfortunately this BS seems persistent: http://theobamadiary.com/2015/06/17/on-chasing-the-archie-bunker-voter/

[Cheese Sandwich]

29. More like taken out of context and deliberately miscontrued

[Rosa Luxemburg]

32. yes

[uponit7771]

273. Nope, America hasn't overcome racism... that's not even near reality

[Marr]

30. You know, it's the dishonesty of your post that people are responding to.

If you want to make an honest, reasoned critique of Sanders, by all means, do so. I'll probably disagree with it, but I'd love to hear it.

What you're doing is just dishonest though. It's hard to respect someone who employs such methods, and really-- you aren't doing your candidate any favors.

[delrem]

289. We're going to get a 'to the ropes' year of this dishonesty, too.

Just remember '08.
These are just the trial runs for the complete $2.5billion "inevitability" campaign, which has started.

That's a shitload of money and ... I don't think anyone has ever experienced what we're going to experience, before this. One thing for sure, the $2.5billion candidate is confident as all get out.

[AgingAmerican]

34. FAIL

Why would someone try to manufacture racism where none exists? Agenda?

[leftofcool]

102. Racism in America is manufactured?

Nope, not a fail. Your statement is a fail.

[AgingAmerican]

215. Insinuating Bernies statements are at all racist

is manufactured outrage.

[leftofcool]

220. I see, telling POC what is and is not a racist comment to them.

[1StrongBlackMan]

240. But more ...

No PoC DUer has called, or implied, the comment racist!!!

It is DU: Bernie saying that someone is calling his quote racist (though no one has) and arguing LOUDLY that it is NOT what no one has termed it!

But:

(Posted by me earlier)

But (Bernie's comment) is really revealing, in that it displays a stunning lack of incite into the Black electorate ... our politics MUST BE based on our color BECAUSE our color largely determines how policies/politics affects our lives.

His call for one's politics to be based on how one's family is doing, ignores (devalues) PoC's lived experience ... How the families of PoC are doing IS a matter of how policies/politics affect them as PoC, and this includes; BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, our economic status!

This is what the economic primacy crowd seems to NOT (or, not want to) understand or recognize.

[bettyellen]

250. Someone just tried to start the same shit about sexism, lol.

I'm getting all kinds of condescending bullshit.
People pretending there are no quotes from Sanders there. Kinda crazy.

[1StrongBlackMan]

251. It's called ...

"BettyEllening"!

[bettyellen]

236. True- no one called Sanders a racist - that is total bullshit.

They said it appears he doesn't care enough to address it fully and separately. Same as women's reproductive rights.

It matters:
http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/06/03/matters-bernie-sanders-doesnt-talk-race-gender/

[DanTex]

42. Who is the "shutup poor people" choir?

Certainly not Hillary, if you've listed to anything she's said or stood for during her entire career.

It's possible to care about inequality without telling minorities that their concerns are, and I quote, "not important."

[DanTex]

40. And people wonder why he polls so poorly among minorities...

Obviously, Bernie is not racist. That's a strawman (which I see has already popped up here). But when you dismiss issues like immigration as "not important", you are going to deservedly get heat for it.

[TM99]

44. Sanders has not dismissed immigration issues.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/bernie-sanders-tells-latinos-he-bacsk-immigration-reform-naleo-n378691

This continued distortion of facts and layers of bullshit is going to bite Clinton and her supporters on the ass sooner than later.

[DanTex]

46. I suppose that's true if you skip the part where he called them "not important".

[TM99]

53. What is 'not important' is focusing

ONLY on skin color but rather the importance of policies and positions that support POC in gaining true civil rights and real immigration reform.

But hey spin it however you want, it is still bullshit. And it is becoming more and more apparent that this is what a very vocal minority of Clinton supports is all about - BULLSHIT!

[sheshe2]

99. Question.

What is 'not important' is focusing

ONLY on skin color but rather the importance of policies and positions that support POC in gaining true civil rights and real immigration reform.

So, who is going to tell the people of certain skin color what is and is not important to them? Who is going to make that decision for them? Who is going to tell them what their true civil rights are? WHO?

[TM99]

105. All of us, not just some of us.

You asked me why I don't come into the AA group. This is why.

I am a POC as well. My father was black, and my mother is white. I experienced both sides of family's racist attitudes towards each other until empathy from long term intimate relationships broke through that all too human condition.

I trust Bernie Sanders to take action based on my voice. Why? Because he has a very long history of supporting POC in this country.

I do not trust Hillary Clinton to take action based on my voice. Why? Because she is incongruent and inconsistent. She is more interested in the politics sometimes than the people. I remember the 1990's and her support for then President Clinton's 'war on drugs'. I have cousins still incarcerated from his expansion of Reagan's racists policies. I also remember all too well the racism of Clinton's 2008 campaign.

Is she all bad? No. But there is enough to make me question her sincerity. Is Sanders all perfect. Gods no. And I know he will keep trying and fighting for me and other POC. He has thus far.

And when we just focus on color, we ignore the very things that make us alike so that we can begin to heal racism again with this new generation. Every generation must learn this anew. It is the Millennials turn now.

[Oilwellian]

107. +1 n/t

[840high]

60. You're a little behind - he made

a very clear statement on immigration.

[leftofcool]

221. Link please.

Not a UTube video, a link to a real statement.

[uponit7771]

276. Not in that interview!!!

[Ed Suspicious]

82. He has called for a path to citizenship on more ocassions than

I care to count.

[uponit7771]

274. Where are Bernies handlers?! "... America has overcome racism..." WTF?!

[TM99]

41. Clinton and her supporters

have not changed since 2008.

Then it was racism that they condoned through surrogates and supporters.

Now in 2016, they are accusing Sanders over and over of racism. It is a sick game for them apparently.

WASHINGTON, June 18 – Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) issued the following statement today on the killing of nine people by a white man at a black church in Charleston, South Carolina:

“The Charleston church killings are a tragic reminder of the ugly stain of racism that still taints our nation. This senseless violence fills me with outrage, disgust and a deep, deep sadness. The hateful killing of nine people praying inside a church is a horrific reminder that, while we have made significant progress in advancing civil rights in this country, we are far from eradicating racism. Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and their congregation.”

That right there is the real Sanders, not that garbage you are attempting to impugne upon him.

[Agnosticsherbet]

43. Dissecting the 2008 Electorate: Most Diverse in U.S. History

Dissecting the 2008 Electorate: Most Diverse in U.S. History

Overall, whites2 made up 76.3% of the record 131 million people3 who voted in November’s presidential election, while blacks made up 12.1%, Hispanics 7.4% and Asians 2.5%.4 The white share is the lowest ever, yet is still higher than the 65.8% white share of the total U.S. population (Pew Hispanic Center, 2009).

The percentage of black voters no doubt tipped the election, butwhite voters clearly contributed the bulk of the votes.

The diverdity of the voters is what Senator Sanders should talk about.

This is a big strike against Senator Sanders in my mind.

[frylock]

49. It's like 2008 all up in here, like the last time your candidate LOST..

because of this shit. Keep up the good work.

[AtomicKitten]

110. Isn't it though.

Doubling down on the same nasty, dishonest, and in the end losing strategy with only slight variation.

[Deny and Shred]

50. Kudos on posting outside the HRC forum

Usually you keep to the safe haven where you can alert on any "criticism" of HRC.

Typically, I hear about how the Bernie supporters are hurting his cause on DU.

This entire thread should be considered rebuttal testimony, you're pathetically parsing one quote while ignoring an entire career.

Obama won because he got many of the 50% who normally wouldn't bother to vote to the polls. The next general will only be won by a Dem candidiate if he/she can get the 50% that usually sit at home out to the polls. My biggest fear is that HRC does win the primary, because that 50% sees her as stale, boring, same old, same old. They will sit at home, and you will blame the left.

Convince that apathetic 50% to vote, don't tear down Sen. Sanders.

Funny how the end of the quote in the OP is about the role of the billionaire class. How do the candidates stack up as confronters on that front? Or do you just want to pick on the elements of the statement that suit your candidate?

[1StrongBlackMan]

55. Posted to for later

[Kalidurga]

59. I don't care what race or gender the person I vote for is...

so I guess I am a racist, sexist too.

[hrmjustin]

61. Clearly not his best moment.

[840high]

63. unrec.

[Teamster Jeff]

66. You embarrass yourself

[leftofcool]

104. I think ole Bernie did that.

[Report1212]

70. I'm a minority voter and he's spot on

I know you're trying to smear an original member of SNCC who was working on civil rights before most of us were born, but he's not saying racism is over. He's saying that without economic justice there is no racial justice.

[leftofcool]

103. He's wrong period.

Ask Chris Rock.

[TM99]

109. While I appreciate Chris Rock's

outspoken criticism of racist police tactics, Bernie Sanders was marching on DC with MLK before Rock was even born.

The only one wrong here is you.

[Report1212]

168. Bernie is a 1964 member of SNCC

I wouldn't exactly say "ask a comedian about if this guy who fought for civil rights is correct"

[leftofcool]

222. So? What has he done lately?

Marching with MLK 50 years ago means nothing.

[Report1212]

246. This is a horrible horrible post

I dont think its even worth replying to

[appalachiablue]

253. Marching with MLK Jr. 50 years ago means nothing. Incredible, on a dem. thread charging

that Sanders is unconcerned with PoC.

[Trajan]

73. 1 rec

Many comments ....

Nuff said

[William769]

75. Very true. People can't handle what Senator Sanders said.

Denial is the 1st stage.

[Cha]

81. yeah, just because Bernie's supporters aren't rec it doesn't mean anything except they

don't want what he said on the greatest page. Understandable.

".. this country has overcome racism.."?! You can't fix a problem you don't know is there.

"you should not be basing your politics based on color.."?! How insulting.

".. And, you have an Hispanic community looking to the Democrats for help.. but, that's not important".. uh huh.. tell that to Hispanic Community, Bernie.

African Americans and “the working-class people of this country” shouldn't be in separate categories….

I'm not saying he's a damn racist.. I'm saying that's some stupid shite right there.

Thank you, Bill

[Autumn]

121. As a Bernie supporter I was happy to recommend these two OPs to get them on the greatest page.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026849107

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017271869

[Violet_Crumble]

84. I've got no problems with what he said. It's how you twisted it that's kind of pathetic n/t

[Aerows]

77. Shall we discuss how

both candidates in 2008 extolled marriage as being between one man and one woman?

Because that is a very significant issue to me - President Obama evolved. Hillary Clinton has evolved, too.

Bernie Sanders never needed to evolve. Martin O'Malley didn't either. O'Malley put his pen where his mouth was before it was even a majority of states to do so.

If you want to get down to brass tacks, there you go.

[madfloridian]

78. He's right. "you should not be basing your politics based on color."

Why would you think we should?

Politics should be color blind.

[1StrongBlackMan]

242. Because ...

MY/PoC's politics MUST BE based on our color BECAUSE our color largely determines how policies/politics affects our lives.

How my family is, and the families of PoC are, doing IS a matter of how policies/politics affect them as PoC, and this includes; BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, my/our economic status!

[nc4bo]

80. Nevermind, my mistake. Carry on. nt

[JI7]

83. i think this could have more to do with being from a mostly white state like Vermont

politicians and especially democrats from more diverse states have a more diverse constituents and often minorities communities will make up a large number of their voters . and among the minority voters there will be many different issues depending on many things .

once Sanders does come across a more diverse community with different concerns i have no doubt he would understand and do all he can to fight for them.

if you look at O'Malley he is saying things which he learned about as Mayor and Governor . being Mayor he seems to have more knowledge about certain areas which those who have mostly held higher office may not be as aware of just beacuse those usually up to the mayor.

based on Sanders recent comments about the horrible attack in South Carolina and on immigration it shows he is listening. he isn't getting defensive but listening and communicating with people.

[Cha]

85. LOL.. see that William.. someone said you "embarass yourself" bc you posted Bernie's statement.. so

it's settled from that poster anyway..

Bernie embarrassed himself.

Not Taken out of Context either.

[Violet_Crumble]

87. They're talking about this bit where small snippets were taken out of context...

".. this country has overcome racism.."?! You can't fix a problem you don't know is there.

"you should not be basing your politics based on color.."?! How insulting.

".. And, you have an Hispanic community looking to the Democrats for help.. but, that's not important".. uh huh.. tell that to Hispanic Community, Bernie.

African Americans and “the working-class people of this country” shouldn't be in separate categories….

They were NOT saying Bernie Sanders embarrassed himself.

[madfloridian]

86. Do you think politics should be based on color?

[Ed Suspicious]

89. No. That's why when I read a story from The Hill that said that Clinton planned to pick Castro as

her running mate . . . "or another Hispanic," I was pretty disgusted.

She could make an argument for Castro. Another Hispanic? Not so much.

[madfloridian]

91. What bothers me is that the OP seems to think so.

That bothers me.

I knew what you meant.

[okasha]

184. So Julian Castro is the only Hispanic

in the entire United States qualified to be VP and potentially President?

I suggest you walk that back a bit.

[Ed Suspicious]

201. I suggest they name their candidate instead of "another Hispanic."

[Ed Suspicious]

202. Maybe Obama should have selected Joe Biden or another white candidate.

[sheshe2]

101. Kicking for 100 replies.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

106. Your excerpting severely distorts his meaning several times, I think.

"this country has overcome racism and voted for him as president" is a very different and much weaker claim to "this country has overcome racism".

".. And, you have an Hispanic community looking to the Democrats for help.. but, that's not important" is not a fair summary of an entire paragraph, ending with the line "and you've got a Hispanic community which is looking to the Democrats for help." and then "But that's not important" as a new paragraph, referring to the whole of the last paragraph.

It's a striking example of how selective excerpting can distort meaning.

[bettyellen]

118. What is he referring to as "not important" then?

Looks like he is talking about the concerns of Hispanic voters to me. Or both that POC voted for Obama and Hispanics are interested in immigration reform. He Is referring to that paragraph when he says "but that's not important". To imply otherwise is bullshit.

[Motown_Johnny]

108. I am embarrassed for you

We overcame racism in that one example sighted, to elect a person of color as President. I think even you know what he was saying and are so desperate to score some political points that you are willing to misrepresent the statement. It is really sad.

Also, you took parts of two different paragraphs and merged them together as if they were one thought. Clearly they are not.


If Hillary supporters are this dishonest about something as sensative as race, even in the aftermath of a racially motivated massacre, then maybe I won't vote for her even if she wins the nomination. I have not said that before, but your post is moving me in that direction.

[raouldukelives]

112. I haven't even seen his birth certificate. nt

[hootinholler]

113. I really thought better of you William

I'm sadly disappointed in you for your attempt to smear Bernie like that.

[99Forever]

120. Smears and weasel words...

... a Hillary Clinton Fan Club tradition.

[840high]

283. So am I. Pretty low.

[DCBob]

116. Bernie's comments on this sound very similar to what I have heard Republicans say.

Weird.

[Bluenorthwest]

117. To overcome a bigotry is not to eradicate it, it is to overwhelm it with those who are not bigoted

Do you really, really think that no homophobia had to be overcome to get as far as we have gotten as a community? They used to jail us. Now they elect us. Bigotries were overcome, while they were not of course destroyed, halted, ended, eliminated. They were overcome and victory was attained in the case at hand.
To overcome does not mean 'to defeat' or 'to destroy' it means to prevail, and in that election we did in fact prevail, the racist tide against Obama was overcome by the wave of equality and that election was victorious.

Personally I do not feel this area of discussion is appropriate for word games and parsings. I am myself very aware of the extreme and real culture of racism and bigotry in this country and the bloody threat it presents. I have no need and see no good in attempts to paint those who are most decidedly on our side as being idiot racists, because in the time I spend doing that some actual idiot racist is out there doing real harm.

Do you really have so many political allies of excellence that you can afford to burn them all down?

[bettyellen]

122. Good thoughts but it's an awkward at best phrasing....

And it pretty much does dismiss as "unimportant" the concerns of a lot of voters in the context of how to get back "middle class" voters.
It's a pretty clueless way to express things and o could not blame POC for thinking he's tossed them over the side because that will broaden his appeal
to voters Dems have lost. We all know those would be white voters. Many lost years ago when Dems focused on civil rights. He put the equation out there- I don't know how else anyone would do the math of it, unfortunately.

[Zorra]

128. No, all this is is another disingenuous attempt to falsely frame Senator Sanders as a

racist.

This consistent line of attack by Clinton supporters attempting to associate Senator Sanders with white racism, is filthy,

[leftofcool]

132. Did he say those things or not????????????

[bettyellen]

133. I think they're associating him w disinterest in black America - not racism.

That's what I keep reading. Never saw one person saying he's a racist- and it's disgusting to pretend anyone is calling Sanders a racist.

I read this and wonder- has Bernie just written off voters of color? Or feel it's more principled to "not pander" as Clinton and others are accused of doing?
Trying to figure out that mess of an interview- and why he brought up POC as voting blocks and surmised that "wasn't important".

[Zorra]

154. No. It's a smear attempt, a misconstruing of the meaning and intent of

his communication in order to imply that Bernie discriminates against African Americans because he is not cognizant or considerate of the plight of the African American community in the US.

This is simply and plainly not the case, as Senator Sanders has repeatedly demonstrated, over a very long period of time, that he recognizes the injustices that African Americans.

"You should not be basing your politics based on your color." This is a general, blanket statement, made to a general audience. It is just as true for "red" colored people as it is for "white" colored people

I don't know about you, but my politics are based on the candidate that will be the best for everyone. As a woman, I'd dearly love to see a woman POTUS. But I'm not going to vote for someone simply because they are female. I'm going to vote for the candidate who I feel will do right by me and everyone esle, to the very best of their ability.

We're all in this together. If we don't feel ourselves to be equal, then we won't be equal. If you are denied rights. equality, and justice, then I am denied rights and justice.

I don't give a rat's ass if someone is red, white, black, or blue. I don't give a fuck if someone is male or female, LGBT or straight. I don't give a fuck if someone is Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Zoroastrian, whatever,

I feel we are all intrinsically equal as human beings. End of story. A President who understands and feels that we are all intrinsically equal as human beings is a President who will work to ensure that we are all treated equally under the law, and in reality, to the greatest extent possible. A President who understands and feels that all human beings are intrinsically equal will clearly see the inequality of any group that is not treated as equal, and will try to fix it, to the best of their ability.

Don't be deceived by Clinton supporters and their little bo-peep phony innocence, "aw shucks, golly gee, we're not trying to use the transfer propaganda technique to associate Bernie with white racism". They are constantly and repeatedly promoting this completely disingenuous meme in order to convince people that Bernie discriminates against the African American community because he is not aware of their unequal condition. They are doing this because they see Bernie rapidly gaining in popularity, and believe they need to make deceitful attacks against Bernie because his past record does not allow for legitimate attacks.

It's totally filthy, disgusting, malicious and/or ignorant bullshit, and it needs to be called out and ended.

[bettyellen]

155. Nope- there are no "filthy allegations" of racism. That is a manufactured smear on its face.

And if I "feel" unequal I'll be unequal? Isn't that idiotic victim blaming bullshit from "The Secret"?

[Zorra]

161. If you don't feel yourself to be intrinsically equal to all other human beings,

then who do you give the authority to make that determination for you?

My point is, we are all intrinsically equal as human beings.

This does not make us equal under the law, nor make us equal in the reality of the everyday world.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/

[frylock]

158. Sanders showed his disinterest in black America when he fought for civil rights..

in the 60s. He was probably just pandering, knowing it would make for some good PR some 50 years later. Pretty crafty.

[bettyellen]

163. Well were talking about the primary campaign but whatever.

[frylock]

169. yeah, whatevs..

We're just rehashing this bullshit that Sanders doesn't care about immigrants, or PoC, or women, or pets, or your favorite band....

[bettyellen]

173. And here comes the mocking of women and POC

Sounds like you resent the fact that Sanders is dead in the water without their support.

[frylock]

182. :bangshead:

[bettyellen]

231. Bang away! It's not just me wondering where he is on these issues....

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/06/03/matters-bernie-sanders-doesnt-talk-race-gender/

[frylock]

247. Senators Sanders record on these issues leaves no doubt as to where he stands..

but by all means, do continue to misrepresent what he's said in order to try and gain some political points. As I like to remind everyone, that tactic worked so well for your candidate last time around.

[bettyellen]

248. I have a candidate? Lol. Please stop making shit up.

[frylock]

249. "Please stop making shit up."

[sheshe2]

178. I don't believe you just said this.

frylock (25,443 posts)
169. yeah, whatevs..

We're just rehashing this bullshit that Sanders doesn't care about immigrants, or PoC, or women, or pets, or your favorite band....

[frylock]

183. I don't believe we have to go through this same routine. .

week after week after week after...

[bettyellen]

232. I do- Sanders can "agree to disagree" about some life and death issues that effect women...

And that is scary.

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/06/03/matters-bernie-sanders-doesnt-talk-race-gender/

[TM99]

282. What a bullshit article.

Facts are your friends --

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/statement-on-fair-pay-act

http://www.bustle.com/articles/80644-bernie-sanders-stance-on-abortion-is-exactly-what-youd-expect-from-the-progressive-candidate

Yeah, Sanders is not talking about issues that effect women my ass!

[1StrongBlackMan]

243. I know, huh ...

But I DO find it entertaining ... white folks arguing with themselves about whether something is, or is not, racist ... when no PoC has termed the comment as racist.

[bettyellen]

244. It's bizarre- when I posted this Salon article that quotes him- it's also

A smear? Sorry but everyone saying there are accusations of racism against Sanders is 100% full of shit and they just don't care if they are lying.

We're not the only ones saying Sanders rhetoric largely ignores issues important to women and POC. I was looking to see what he has been saying to us lately and nothing but this:


http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/06/03/matters-bernie-sanders-doesnt-talk-race-gender/

[Zorra]

126. Overcome: to succeed in dealing with a problem (a problem or difficulty)

As in: The voters of the US overcame the racism of many US citizens, and managed to elect a black President despite this racism.

Please don't attempt to falsely associate Senator Sanders with white racism.

[lumberjack_jeff]

127. Reclaiming the votes of working class white men IS a problem to be solved.

We won't win elections when only 30% of them vote for us.

The fact that this is controversial is why we lose elections as badly as we lost the last one.

The last three sentences are absolutely correct, and I don't care about the lead-in.

[Autumn]

129. from 2008: Clinton Touts White Support................

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/clinton-touts-white-support/?_r=0

“I have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on,” she said in the interview, citing an article by The Associated Press.

It “found how Senator Obama’s support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me.”

“There’s a pattern emerging here,” she said.

While she said her remarks weren’t meant to be divisive, they’re already whipping around the Internet. “These are the people you have to win if you’re a Democrat in sufficient numbers to actually win the election. Everybody knows that,” she said in the interview. (Hint, hint, message to the superdelegates still undeclared.)

hat tip to another poster for the nice reminder
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026870696

[merrily]

130. Is nothing too false or too low?

Sanders appealed to his own donors to donate to the Emanuel Church community.

The more his donors, which are small amount givers, give to others, the less they have to give to him. He knows that, yet he immediately turned to his donors with this plea:

Bernie Sanders
6/18/15
Newsletters
To:
[e-mail]

Dear -

What transpired in Charleston, South Carolina, last night was not just a tragedy, it was an act of terror.

Nine of our fellow Americans were murdered while praying in a historic church because of the color of their skin. This senseless violence fills me with outrage, disgust, and a deep, deep sadness.

This hateful killing is a horrific reminder that, while we have made important progress in civil rights for all of our people, we are far from eradicating racism.

The Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church is one that has been attacked, burned, and rebuilt throughout its 200-year history. While their community mourns now, they will rebuild, and they will emerge stronger than before.

Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and their congregation. But we can add our actions to our prayers. The families and the community that have been hurt so very badly by this brutality need our help. Let us stand with them in their time of mourning.

You can help by making a donation to the emanuel church community today.

Thank you,

Bernie Sanders

The link in his email is to the church's website. emanuelamechurch.org

He was one of the first, if not the first, federal officials to speak out after Ferguson, which he did more than once He has been fighting for equal rights for everyone from the time he was a kid until today.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026743489

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12809672

[sammythecat]

134. This is a deliberate and dishonest smear attempt.

I expect this kind of shit on foxnews, not here.

The sad thing is not everyone will see the disgusting thing done here. I didn't catch it myself until other posters pointed it out.

If this was indeed, deliberate, you should be ashamed. If it was an honest mistake and you don't understand what he REALLY said and just jumped to the worst possible conclusion, then you really should be more cautious before making OP's. Yeah, Bernie Sanders is pretty much racist and doesn't give a whit about the concerns of African-Americans. Right. Got it. Thanks for the expose.

This post is wrong and you should say so.

[Mnpaul]

162. I dealt with the same post over at kos

It's a coordinated attempt to mislead.

[azmom]

135. I'm hispanic, and before Bernie entered the

Race, I would have told you that immigration was the most important issue to me. It is not anymore, because Bernie is right, immigration is one of the issues used to divide us. The thing that unites us and that nobody will adress, is the fact that we are all getting fucked by the millionaires and billionaires who own our government. For this election, I am casting my vote for Bernie. He is willing to fight the good fight against big money.

As for immigration, Bernie has a better record than Hillary, so there's that too.

[Arkana]

136. This is insanely tone-deaf, even though I'm pretty sure he didn't mean it

that way.

[bigtree]

137. Questions for Bernie supporters: His NPR interview ('You shouldn't base your politics on your color)

Here's the quote (remarks) I'm referring to:

On African-American support for Democrats

Well, here's what you got. What you got is an African-American president, and the African-American community is very, very proud that this country has overcome racism and voted for him for president. And that's kind of natural. You've got a situation where the Republican Party has been strongly anti-immigration, and you've got a Hispanic community which is looking to the Democrats for help.

But that's not important. You should not be basing your politics based on your color. What you should be basing your politics on is, how is your family doing? ... In the last election, in state after state, you had an abysmally low vote for the Democrats among white, working-class people. And I think the reason for that is that the Democrats have not made it clear that they are prepared to stand with the working-class people of this country, take on the big money interests. I think the key issue that we have to focus on, and I know people are uncomfortable about talking about it, is the role of the billionaire class in American society.

...what did he mean when he cited African American voter support for an African American president?;

"...here's what you got. What you got is an African-American president, and the African-American community is very, very proud that this country has overcome racism and voted for him for president. And that's kind of natural."

...then, cited Hispanic community of voters looking to the party for help;

"You've got a situation where the Republican Party has been strongly anti-immigration, and you've got a Hispanic community which is looking to the Democrats for help."

...and then said, outright, "...that's not important. You should not be basing your politics based on your color."

Did he mean that republicans shouldn't base their politics on color? (I'm being charitable here)

Or, did he mean that African Americans and Hispanics Americans shouldn't base their politics on color?


(on second thought, I'm going to make the rest of this into a separate post, here...)

[99Forever]

138. There is no low many Hillary Clinton supporters won't go to.

This is why she got beat in '08 and why she will lose this time, again.

The American people have had their fill and are disgusted with slimy campaign tactics. Too bad neoliberals, Teapublicans, and neocons alike insist on using them anyway.

[HappyMe]

144. A new, but not unexpected low.

I give your smear garbage an F.

[William769]

145. I give my semar garbage an F also because I have none.

I give my OP an A.

[HappyMe]

148. Of course you would.

Smear away. It does nothing to change my mind about Bernie.

[William769]

151. Not trying to.

Just making sure though that all the facts are there for people to see.

It's up to the individual to decide what kind of garbage they are willing to support.

[99Forever]

160. You are no better or different than the OP of a smear thread that just got hid.

It was aimed at Hillary. Opposite sides of the same ugly, trashy, unethical coin.

[HappyMe]

164. You support your's

and I'll support mine.

[Cha]

179. They think Bernie's own words "smear" him.. so be it.

I think they make no sense whatsoever.

[William769]

180. It damn sure is a rabbit hole series with them.

[Cha]

181. ..

[Violet_Crumble]

185. Hi Cha. It's very clear it's the OP's misquoting of his words that's the smear.

You've been told that already in this thread, so why are you continuing to pretend otherwise?

Here's what I said to you yesterday which you appear to have ignored:

They're talking about this bit where small snippets were taken out of context...


".. this country has overcome racism.."?! You can't fix a problem you don't know is there.

"you should not be basing your politics based on color.."?! How insulting.

".. And, you have an Hispanic community looking to the Democrats for help.. but, that's not important".. uh huh.. tell that to Hispanic Community, Bernie.

African Americans and “the working-class people of this country” shouldn't be in separate categories…. "


They were NOT saying Bernie Sanders embarrassed himself.

[William769]

186. Trust me, she heard you yesterday.

[Violet_Crumble]

187. So she knows that it's yr comments that's the smear, not Sander's comments. Oh-kay...

Nothing like head in the sand tactics, I guess

[William769]

188. She knows what Senator Sanders said.

She doesn't have a reading comprehension problem or a denial problem.

[Violet_Crumble]

189. She knows what you said when you misquoted him isn't what Sanders said...

Repeatedly claiming that DUers are objecting to the entire thing in the image you posted is every bit as deliberately distorting things as the comments in the OP that came after what he said.

I've been reading all these Bernie/Hillary threads and I don't get it. While there's many DUers who do say positive things about both candidates, there's a small number on both sides who seem to thrive on doing hit pieces and slamming the other candidate in the hope people will believe these LW politicians are racists, sexists, extreme warmongers, gun-nuts etc. You'd all be better off sticking to aiming the hostility towards the Republican candidates and their supporters, imo...


Have a lovely day, my friend

[William769]

191. If this is a hit piece, Senator Sanders did it to himself.

[Bonobo]

193. Why did the Hillary campaign release the photo of Obama in a turban, William?

[Violet_Crumble]

196. No, it's yr comments after what he said that makes it a hit piece...

But you already know that

[William769]

197. I know the truth hurts.

Have a fabulous day!

[Violet_Crumble]

198. Yes, I've noticed it seems to...

If it's hurting too much, maybe you could edit out the comments you made in the OP and just leave what Sanders said there so people can read it in context and not be distracted by the attempts after it in the OP to portray him as being some sort of insensitive almost-racist type. Because as it stands it doesn't come across as the sort of genuine criticism of either candidate that I'd expect to see ..

You have a lovely day too!

[Cha]

204. Exactly, William.. and I agree with the comments on Sen Sanders statement that were Not taken out

of context. Bernie was actually being offensive.

Mahalo, William

[Violet_Crumble]

208. Sorry, but the comments after what Sanders said were taken out of context...

And it wasn't Bernie being offensive, which is why people in this thread were talking about a smear being made about Bernie. But you already know that..

[bettyellen]

234. If Sandes brushes aside issues and people notice- how are the people who notice the problem?

Bernie "agrees to disagree" on abortion rights:


http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/06/03/matters-bernie-sanders-doesnt-talk-race-gender/

Not thrilled at all.

[Violet_Crumble]

238. The article said he's strongly pro-choice...

There’s no question from his record that he’s avidly pro-choice and supports women’s access to comprehensive health care. He is willing to speak out about women’s rights, and it’s likely he’ll have more to say about those issues as the campaign progresses.

[bettyellen]

239. Yet he just can't say it- not when appearing in Wisconsin of all places, not on his website....

It seems like he's been distancing himself from certain segments. I guess he knows we will vote for the Dem candidate no matter what. But it's deeply disappointing for him to speak as if these issues are lesser. That are not lesser to me.

[Warren DeMontague]

266. Hillary Clinton: "I respect those who believe..there are no circumstances under which any abortion

..should ever be available"

NYT, Jan 2005: "Clinton seeking shared ground over abortions"

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/25/nyregion/clinton-seeking-shared-ground-over-abortions.html?_r=0

How is that any better than the statement you're using to try and hang Bernie Sanders- with his 100% NARAL rating- out to dry?

Is it okay because back in 2005 everyone was supposed to be courting "values voters", which is also the justification under which Hillary Clinton (but not Sanders, notably) was at the time openly campaigning to keep "marriage between a man and a woman"?

[bettyellen]

267. Because she was speaking in full support of preserving the right to choose and reaching out to try

Increase availability of contraceptives and family planning as well. So her speech was on point about policy? I think she gets points for talking about policy here, instead of pointing to it as an annoying wedge to be ignored- no?

[Warren DeMontague]

268. There were a lot of pro-choice people pissed off about the way she courted "values voters" back then

I'm sure a lot of people here would take issue with some of the more judgmental language she uses, around abortion, quoted in this article. I know I do. And it's interesting that it came directly on the heels of her very inspiring presence speaking at the March for Womens lives, which I and many other DU members attended just the year prior.

After the speech, several members of the audience said they viewed Mrs. Clinton as a "hero" of the abortion rights movement, but also noted that her address seemed intended to reach more conservative and religious voters as well as perhaps in hopes of broadening her base of support for a possible 2008 run.

"I understood what Senator Clinton meant when she said abortion could be a sad and tragic choice, but we see women express relief more than anything else that they have the freedom to choose," said Martha Stahl, director for public relations and marketing for Northern Adirondack Planned Parenthood. "Mrs. Clinton really seemed to be reaching out here."

...

Mrs. Clinton supported a proposed ban on late-term abortions as long as it included an exception to protect the health of the mother; in turn, she has opposed such a ban when it lacked that exception. She has also supported some state parental notification laws under which a teenager must involve at least one parent in the decision -- but only when there is an exception in the laws that allows the judge to bypass the law and let the teenager obtain an abortion on her own -- a process known as "judicial bypass," which Mrs. Clinton has also supported before.

At the very least, she was doing the exact same thing some have accused Sanders of doing- trying to find "agree to disagree" common ground with anti-choicers. If anything, her pandering to the right and so-called "values voters" was particularly egregious during the early 2000s, on everything from, like I said, LGBT marriage to the IWR vote to this sort of thing to pushing a "flag burning" amendment.

The political reality has shifted, and Hillary Clinton probably now has more leeway to express what one hopes she has actually believed the entire time- but Sanders, to his credit, has been pretty consistent all along.

[bettyellen]

269. For me, he needs to put it on his website. And talk about it now.

And not just when someone asks him.
That's the minimum, And fair to expect I think.

[Warren DeMontague]

288. I agree.

It's a top tier reason for people to come out and vote, to support our nominee-- protecting Roe v. Wade and who picks SCOTUS judges for the next 4 years. I think any Democrat wanting the nomination needs to expressly committ -or recommit- to reproductive choice as an obvious, important issue.

[bettyellen]

305. I'm shocked at people expecting voters do research, because largely they do not.

And overall it's a disappointment that does extend to our party as well. It's shocking how much ground we've lost.

[Warren DeMontague]

307. Well I'm gonna give all the candidates benefit of the doubt that they're going to address lots of

important issues specifically and in detail, in the coming year.

It is still early.

[sheshe2]

199. Maybe you should read what a PoC has to say.

bigtree.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6871211

[Violet_Crumble]

200. Maybe *you* should read what a PoC has to say...

TM99

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026869122#post105

[Bonobo]

203. It only matters when POC agree with them.

But they are as open to the "You don't listen to POC" as anyone on the Sanders side and MORE guilty of hijacking POC issues for their own cynical use.

[Violet_Crumble]

209. Yep, exactly. The reply I just got to one of my posts confirmed that entirely...

It's only a select group of likeminded souls who support Hillary Clinton who matter...

[sheshe2]

205. TM99

K~

Af Am and never posts there.

I talk to not one but many Af Am members in their group, have you? Ya, I post there. I am sure they would be more than happy to answer your questions and concerns about Bernie.

Have at it.

[Violet_Crumble]

207. And? Yr point about the post I linked to for you to read?

Yr going to dismiss them because they don't post in the AA group? That's as ridiculous as trying to dismiss any of the Australians at DU who don't post in the Australia Group. I'd kick anyone's arse who I caught lecturing them in GD and telling them they need to talk to Australians blah blah blah.

In case it hasn't dawned on you, African American DUers are as diverse a group as other DUers and they all don't think the same way and don't all agree with you on things.

[sheshe2]

212. Exactly.

They are diverse. Many different candidates are being considered there.

Well...you~

Yr going to dismiss them because they don't post in the AA group? That's as ridiculous as trying to dismiss any of the Australians at DU who don't post in the Australia Group. I'd kick anyone's arse who I caught lecturing them in GD and telling them they need to talk to Australians blah blah blah.

Compare Australians to Af Am, okay. How many Australians do we have on the board compared to AA. Apples to Oranges.

However, I have to say, AA members are leaving this place in droves. Want to ask yourself why?

Wait!

I'd kick anyone's arse who I caught lecturing them in GD and telling them they need to talk to Australians blah blah blah.

So are you going to kick peoples asses for white 'splaining to Af Am what is important to them?

Just saying.

[Violet_Crumble]

227. I dunno. I think it's wrong to dismiss AA DUers that don't post in the AA group...

I'm not really understanding why their opinions wouldn't be every bit as worthy as that of someone who posts in a group at DU. A lot of people don't post in groups at all and stick to the big forums and there's nothing wrong with that.

Well, I'd have to ask myself why once I knew for sure that there were AA DUers leaving in droves. And if it turned out they were, I'd have to ask them why, wouldn't I?

On the subject of arsekicking, I have to admit when I saw it done to Brother Ivan a few weeks ago, I didn't get involved coz the OP and the one telling him what was important to AA's was someone who I tend not to engage with. And these Bernie/Hillary threads are things I try to stay out of most of the time...

[Bonobo]

211. What about Brother Ivan?

He finds your tactics sick making such as your use of that photo of the Chicago police and that poor black man with the antlers.

That was truly disgraceful.

[bettyellen]

245. Who claimed that women and POC in GD are faking concerns because they're in the bag for

Clinton? And advises Sanders supporters to ignore them because they're all shills?
You can kick people out of the Sanders group but they can still go and read there.

[appalachiablue]

254. A bizarre and incomprehensible concoction of lies and fabrications that is infamous.

[TM99]

285. Yes, because I don't post in AA

and disagree with privilege theories, then my voice is moot.

[ecstatic]

167. I don't understand responses like this. If you interpreted the

quote from the OP in a different way, then share it--and also give context. My reaction to the quote, before even reading the OP's opinion, was that it was offensive, and I explained why in my post below. Are you honestly saying that anyone offended by Sander's statement is smearing/reaching a new low?

[bettyellen]

174. The contempt on this thread is incredible to read.

You asked honest questions and are insulted for it.

[Cha]

216. Precisely.. how dare anyone offer an opinion on Bernie's quotes that were Not taken out

of context, btw.

Good suggestion.. ".. If you interpreted the quote from the OP in a different way, then share it-"

[ecstatic]

165. That's offensive

And demonstrates exactly what my issue with him has been. My opinion of him changed when I saw him be dismissive of issues that are extremely important to me and my life. He referred to them as distracting social issues that democrats focus too much attention on.

Now regarding this OP, I find his quote offensive because he referred to blacks and hispanics in an oversimplified, almost cartoonish fashion before getting into the meat/true focus of his speech--the hard working whites, of course. I don't think he's racist, I just think he has a very limited and narrow view of other races due to living in a lily white state.

Obviously this is just my opinion. And before someone accuses me of being a puma type--Hillary has problems of her own, mainly the inability to "let go" and be herself/ authentic.

[Cha]

206. Thank you for your post, ecstatic..I find Bernie's words offensive too.. they're not being "twisted"

or "taken out of context" as his supporters are spinning like tops to claim.

[Violet_Crumble]

210. I don't support Bernie Sanders nor Hillary Clinton yet I know they were twisted...

Just thought I'd let you know...

[leftofcool]

223. To you? Why don't you ask what POC believe?

[Bonobo]

224. LOL. leftofcool thinks all POC think the same way.

Actually that's not cool at all.

[Violet_Crumble]

226. Why? Anyone who can read can see the misquoting and creative commentary going on by the OP n/t

[freshwest]

170. The Reagan Democrats won't leave the GOP. n/t

[SamKnause]

177. I don't vote based on race.

I am a white woman who voted for Obama.

I don't vote based on gender.

I would not vote for Sarah Palin.

I will not vote for Carly Fiorina or Hillary Clinton.

I vote for who I think will best represent the needs

of the 99% !!!!!

That includes all races and genders.

Bernie's record speaks for itself.

[Bonobo]

192. FLASHBACK TO A REAL SMEAR (From HRC campaign)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-518585/Obama-turban-Barack-accuses-Hillary-smear-campaign-circulating-photos-dressed-Muslim.html

Please note the familiar tone of the denials of the sleazy smear behavior.

Susan Rice, Mr Obama's foreign policy adviser, claimed circulation of the photograph was divisive, and suggested "the customs and cultures of other parts of the world are worthy of ridicule or condemnation."

But Mrs Clinton's election team angrily dismissed the claims, saying it was Mr Obama's response to the leak which was offensive.

"Enough," said Maggie Williams, Mrs Clinton's campaign manager. "If Barack Obama's campaign wants to suggest a photo of him wearing traditional clothing is divisive, they should be ashamed.

"Hillary Clinton has worn the traditional clothing of countries she has visited and had those photos published widely.

[frylock]

275. Hey, at least her campaign talked about race..

amirite?

[Bonobo]

277. Absolutely. They were just SO SHOCKED that the Obama camp took umbrage at that.

I mean, clearly they were just pay a compliment to the international nature of Obama's appeal.

They didn't mean anything by it, least of all to suggest that Obama was not "one of us" (her words to an all-white audience).

Reminds me of when they called Obama a "slum lord" or when her supporter, Cuomo, I think said that Obama "sucked and jived".

[Marr]

303. +1, Not surprising that people who would defend/ignore that would also do what the OP is doing.

Zero standards. I expect this is going to be the norm from that corner.

[Bonobo]

304. It was truly one of the sleaziest, sleaziest things ever and I cannot imagine how one

could possibly overlook that and somehow find respect, even admiration for Hillary Clinton after that.

[Tarheel_Dem]

194. This is a problem. Whether the BS Group wants to admit it or not. That kickoff, that looked like a

Palin rally spoke volumes to me. Economic justice wasn't the reason a kid was shot walking home with a tea & skittles. It wasn't the reason a church of very affluent black people was just attacked. It's not the reason states are making it increasingly harder for POC to vote.

Bernie can appeal to those "disaffected" white voters who , like himself, don't give a damn about the social issues that affect my community, but he can forget about putting together a coalition that could actually elect him. Best of luck BS.

[Cha]

213. Yeah, turns out Bernie was wrong.. "What you got is an African American President, and the African

Last edited Sun Jun 21, 2015, 05:27 AM - Edit history (1)

American community is very very proud that this country has overcome racism and voted for him for President."

I think the "African American community" is smarter than that.. they knew this country did not overcome racism by electing President Obama.

In fact it brought out more racists from under their rocks.

BS is freaking insulting.

Tarheel

[Tarheel_Dem]

257. Exactly. It was white folks who wanted to rush to declare racism over. That way, they never have..

to deal with the structural issues. BS should know that, since he was a civil rights paragon (according to some). We've seen the backlash against the coalition that elected this president. BS was never big into social justice, they just weren't that big a deal to him, despite all declarations to the contrary.

[Cha]

258. Yeah, Justice Roberts and Bernie among others declaring.. ".. this country overcame racism when

they elected Obama President.."

How dense can you be?! You're right he should know better.

Tarheel

[JDPriestly]

218. William, you are totallly misinterpreting what Bernie is saying.

If people based their voting on how their family is doing, and that includes African-American and Hispanic families which means that includes race issues, then they will vote for Bernie. Because Bernie is the only candidate thus far who is free and independent of the PACs, the money that keeps racism going, the status quo and who can actually do what needs to be done to fight racism and to get real immigration reform.

We do not have immigration reform when we have H1-B visas that limit the holders to simply working here with not path to citizenship if they wish to have it.

We do not have an end to racism until we strengthen the groups that oppose racism, the Democrats in the country who oppose racism and end racism in our economy, in our schools, in our workplaces, in our police forces and fire departments, etc. and to end racism we need a Democratic president like Bernie Sanders who is not beholden to the military-industrial complex and the status quo.

Every thing in this country from racism to immigration reform depends on having voices heard that are free from the influence of the oligarchy and the big money. Unless we free ourselves of the corporate noose around our necks, we will not have racial equality and respect or gender equality and respect or immigration reform that is real.

Here in California, especially here in Southern California, we are very close to our neighbors in Mexico. Our society and their's are bound together. In the South, African-Americans are oppressed, and in the North in certain areas, racial issues are also very sensitive. But the status quo candidates who owe their campaign donors, candidates like Hillary, will not change our nation for the better. We have elected one candidate after the other, Carter, a Southerner, Bill Clinton from Arkansas, and Barack Obama from Chicago, and African-American, and they have not changed the racism in America.

I do not think that Hillary Clinton will be able to change much. She is too beholden to wealthy donors who do not want to change the status quo lest they lose money in their investments.

Bernie is the candidate who, regardless of the emphasis in his campaign speeches on economics, can change the focus to justice and not to just more of what we have had all these years.

Ask yourself. Are African-Americans better off now than they were in 2008?

I do not know the answer to my question. I would like to see some comments on that issue. Thank you.

I think that Bernie Sanders will be honest in asking for, in demanding change in many areas including race and immigration. Obama has not done badly in immigration, but on race, he has been hesitant to offend white people. The racism is in the white community. It is a white problem. Sanders is probably the best equipped candidate to meet the problem and deal with it head on -- as he deals with all problems.

Sorry for the long post.

[Cha]

219. Bernie Sanders is the one who doesn't know what he's talking about and he needs to be challenged

on this issue. Not swept under the rug like so many of his supporters are doing on DU by saying he didn't really mean what we're reading.

When People were asking questions about his not talking about racial inequality at his kickoff.. they were swarmed with loud accusations of "you're calling Bernie a Racist!". Which was total bullcrap.. they have no credibility, imo.

[leftofcool]

225. His supporters will keep sweeping this under the rug.

It doesn't matter to them. As long as Bernie has a few people believing he dances with unicorns and has magic fairy dust for all their economic problems, they don't have to give a rat's butt about problems in Black communities.

[uponit7771]

280. It's not just black communities, he pretty much fucked up the span in this interview. Immigration..

...is not important?!

WTF are his handlers!?!?

It's starting to look like Bernies ear is filled with views for singular racial perspectives...

I don't believe this was recent... like wow

[bettyellen]

241. No credibility at all with the racist straw man- sorry but we are not the only ones noticing:

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/06/03/matters-bernie-sanders-doesnt-talk-race-gender/

[DCBob]

229. What does Bernie mean when he says: "How is your family doing?"

If you read more of his quotes, I think he is talking about economics, not racial or social issues. To me that's too shallow a judgement when voting. That sounds like something Republicans would say. They insist everything is about how much money each person makes regardless of the impact on the rest of the country or environment. As Democrats we need to consider bigger picture issues, including racial and social inequality.

[bettyellen]

237. I have to agree - when he talks about MORE vacation time who so many have none-

And forgets how paltry maternity leave is, when he says let's have "our differences" regarding abortion- how am I not supposed to feel thrown under the bus?


http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/06/03/matters-bernie-sanders-doesnt-talk-race-gender/

[appalachiablue]

255. Sanders is very aware of the need for paid sick, vacation & maternity leave for workers & families.

His life and record are a testament to decades of advocacy for women and all, especially the disadvantaged.

Bernie Sanders calls for paid sick, vacation and maternity leave. 6/11/15.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016124480

Sen. Bernie Sanders: united in the war against women. 6/17/15.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026849749

[1StrongBlackMan]

252. This reveals the disconnect ...

the economic primacy folks have with PoC ... our politics MUST BE based on our color BECAUSE our color largely determines how policies/politics affects our lives.

His call for one's politics to be based on how one's family is doing, ignores PoC's lived experience ... How the families of PoC are doing IS a matter of how policies/politics affect them as PoC, and this includes; BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, our economic status!

This is what the economic primacy crowd seems to NOT (or, not want to) understand or recognize.

[Cha]

260. His call for one's politics to be based on how one's family is doing, ignores PoC's lived experience

... How the families of PoC are doing IS a matter of how policies/politics affect them as PoC, and this includes; BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, our economic status!"

Thank you, 1Strong.

[Cha]

259. Good points, DCBob.

[RichVRichV]

256. He used the word correctly. It wasn't poorly stated.

The entire problem with the OP is your trying to equate the word overcome with the word eradicate. They don't mean the same thing. He never stated racism is now gone or no longer a problem in this country, only that it had been defeated in this instance (hence progress has been made). Let me give you an poor anolgy to better explain it.

When you stand up from a chair without falling over you have overcome gravity. That doesn't mean gravity is gone and your going to now float away. It only means you have gained enough strength to counter it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

262. Okay ...

Now explain how the other 97% of the OP is problematic.

For me, you can start here:

On African-American support for Democrats

Well, here's what you got. What you got is an African-American president, and the African-American community is very, very proud that this country has overcome racism and voted for him for president. And that's kind of natural. You've got a situation where the Republican Party has been strongly anti-immigration, and you've got a Hispanic community which is looking to the Democrats for help.

But that's not important. You should not be basing your politics based on your color. What you should be basing your politics on is, how is your family doing? ... In the last election, in state after state, you had an abysmally low vote for the Democrats among white, working-class people. And I think the reason for that is that the Democrats have not made it clear that they are prepared to stand with the working-class people of this country, take on the big money interests. I think the key issue that we have to focus on, and I know people are uncomfortable about talking about it, is the role of the billionaire class in American society.

[uponit7771]

278. Bernie said nothing about "this instance" ... he said "America has overcome racism" which is about

...as tone deaf to the nth degree...

Voting for Obama doesn't mean that the infrastructure of racism has gone anywhere... if anything the GOP is trying to erect more of it with their voter suppression mostly aimed at POC.

WTF are his handlers

[Betty Karlson]

261. Stop twisting words please.

It's not just insulting to Mr. Sanders, it is insulting to every thinking person on the board. For that matter, it is insulting for Mrs. Clinton to be associated with word-twisting.

[1StrongBlackMan]

263. Here ...

You can hear what he says, in his own voice ... hearing what he said before it the quoted sections and after the quoted sections; or, you can read what he said ... either way ... the OP did not twist Bernie's words.

Rather it is Bernie supporters twisting themselves to explain Bernie's words ... when they take the time to attempt an explanation, rather than just declare the OP of twisting.

[Betty Karlson]

264. No. Just no. eom

[1StrongBlackMan]

265. Okay. n/t

[uponit7771]

271. Sanders statement about the country overcoming racism is NOT twisting words at all... his direct

... brain dead tone deaf ass'd quote

Well, here's what you got. What you got is an African-American president, and the African-American community is very, very proud that this country has overcome racism and voted for him for president. And that's kind of natural. You've got a situation where the Republican Party has been strongly anti-immigration, and you've got a Hispanic community which is looking to the Democrats for help.

[TM99]

284. We have overcome a lot of racism in this country.

We have not eradicated it.

And each generation must fight to overcome it yet again. It is time for Millenials to get up off their collective asses and face it in themselves. This recent racist massacre was done by a 21 year old - the Me generation socially networked beyond recognition.

My father, a black man with two Masters, was told when he was hired at a small college in NC in the 1960's that he would never get tenure and never be chairman of the department. By the 1980's he had tenure and was the chairman of the English department.

Today there are other black men and women in positions of power all through out academia and business. When he voted for Obama twice, he said how far we as a nation have come. We still have a ways to go, but wow things are very different than they were.

Sanders is speaking to that, and everyone who tries to twist it are the ones playing identity politics and divisiveness. Build on the successes and continue the fight. It is a psychological one and has been a part of our collective consciousness for as long as civilization has existed. Therefore it will be done over and over again.

[uponit7771]

290. "a lot" wasn't what Bernie said, that would've been better but to say America voting for someone

... as smart and capable as Obama is overcoming racism might be opposite of what was attended.

That's not twisting his words... I can read what was said and it should've been put in a different way no doubt.

Also, the thing about immigration not being important... it is important.

This was done in 2014 hopefully we'll here different from him going foward

[TM99]

294. Pay attention to everything he has said

not just parse a few words from past speeches.

Look at how he has acted and what he supports.

For someone that thinks immigration is not that important, he sure has funny way of showing it.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/bernie-sanders-tells-latinos-he-bacsk-immigration-reform-naleo-n378691

https://berniesanders.com/naleo-conference-remarks/

And when Clinton wanted to send the illegal children home -

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/18/hillary-clinton-immigration_n_5507630.html

He has been and continues to be against it -

http://time.com/3928948/bernie-sanders-immigration/

[uponit7771]

296. I read the whole damn thing, I can read what he said and it is what it is...

... also what he says towards common sense immigration doesn't mean he prioritizes it in his campaign where it should be and that statement about immgration not being important sounds like a minimizing of an issue millions of Americas have to put up with.

I read what was said in full and I don't agree with what Bernie said about issues that are important to POC...


he has handlers and that was 2014... I pray he refines that message a lot

[TM99]

298. Did you read the provided links?

This is 2015 you know.

Look it is obviously your choice. Read it and interpret it the way you want. You will either vote for him or someone else. But trying to pretend that Sanders is not speaking to issues important to POC and that Sanders is not speaking to issues regarding immigration is just bullshit.

He has, he does, and he will more.

[Betty Karlson]

286. Sanders derided the politicians who use race as a wedge issue. See context of the quote.

Twisting that into tone-deafness is an insult to him, to your own preferred candidate, and to me, the reader of such convoluted interpretations.

Are you denying that the election of an African-American man as president was a liberating moment for the country? That African-American news reporters were crying on air, saying how far the USA had come since the days their mothers were spat on? These reporters - educated to the last man and women - were not tone-deaf either, nor brain dead. They knew that racism wasn't dead. But they were proud, and they should have been. And Sanders is referring to that pride.

Sanders did not imply that racism had been eliminated, but that a sufficiently large part of the people had overcome it to support the election of a non-Caucasian man, and that people of colour naturally felt elation after all that had been achieved. I am not a person of colour, but even I felt elation in November 2008.

I cannot find fault with Sanders's words. I really wonder why you are so desperate to take issue with him.

[uponit7771]

291. I'm talking about him saying that America had overcome racism, that's HIS WORDS that's not

... twisting anything.

That statement isn't true and it's tinned ear to the racist infrastructure in government and civilian life that still exist today.

[Betty Karlson]

292. No, what he said was

that the African-American community took pride in a country overcoming racism to the extent that a man of colour was elected president of the United States.

Which is true. Obama was elected, and the African-American community took pride in that. Why shouldn't they?

[uponit7771]

293. There was no "extent" in that statement... I'm reading what BERNIE said not what people are saying

... he said.

That would've been better stated but it wasn't, his exact words are what they are and it was tone deaf....

That wasn't the only thing that was tone deaf in that interview...

He has handlers, he'll get better

[Betty Karlson]

295. Lovely: we are now down to sematics.

Now I may not be a native speaker, but here is how I break up the composition of that statement.

What you have is an African-American president. => this statement is about the election of Barack Obama.

The African-American community (subject) => this sentence is about the African-American community

is proud (nominal sentence) => and how they feel

that this country has overcome racism and voted for him as president. => voting for Barack Obama and overcoming racism are equated. Implied is that in the past, an African-American man would not have won that race because of widespread racism. - Which had to be overcome by the nation.

The statement was about how the A-A community took pride in the election, and how in 2008 being A-A no longer (practically) disqualified someone from being electable to the highest office in the country.

[TM99]

297. Well done.

Those I suspect it will fall on deaf ears.

[uponit7771]

299. You're qualifying a statement that Bernie did not qualify, there's nothing there that indicates that

... the context of overcoming racism only pertained to electing Obama which is still false seeing there was a good number of people who wouldn't vote for him because of the color of his skin.

Either way...

it was 2014, I pray he's refined his issues on immigration (it i important) and racist infrastructure in the US

[Betty Karlson]

306. We are going to have to agree to disagree

about the composition of Mr. Sanders's statement, because I feel we are not coming closer to one another.

I doubt that he has to refine his issues about immigration and racism, because he's been on the right side whenever there was a vote. But if he sees fit to reiterate his positions on these issues loud and clear and more unequivocally then ever, I hope you'd welcome that as much as I would.

Regards,

B

[NCTraveler]

300. K & R. nt.