I am a white, southern man

[MynameisBlarney]

And I have to say, what happened in Charleston...it sickens, angers, frustrates and scares me to my very core.

I have family members that have mixed race children, and I actually do have a few friends that are black. And I fear for their safety.

And knowing that they ALL live in the south, amongst such people as the dead-eyed racist that just assassinated 9 good people for the color of their skin, fills me with such dread, that I can't truly express it.
I grew up in NC, and spent many a summer in SC. I KNOW the types of people that live there, and there are far too many that are openly racist.

And being a white man, and feeling the way I do about what just happened, I realize that this anger and helplessness I feel is miniscule in comparison to those that face this threat directly.

I was able to keep my game-face on at work, but once I was home...

Someone on RS said this is the Civil Rights pt. 2. and I am like no...this is still pt. 1.

I guess I'm just typing this to try to get my head around what just happened. I just wish that I was able to actually do something tangible to help stop this shit. Right now, I don't know what to do, other than hold back tears of rage as I curse through clenched teeth.

I am sooo ready for peace.
So ready.

Enough rambling, I'm gonna get fucking wasted.

[orpupilofnature57]

1. I'm wasted, white and ashamed also .

[MynameisBlarney]

11. Cheers!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

2. where do you live now. Wonder when the current hate started? I say

Sarah Palin unleashed it. and, I am serious

[awoke_in_2003]

3. It has always been there...

and has just bubbled back to the surface once a black man started living in the White House.

[MynameisBlarney]

60. True

But bubbled back?

It erupted like Mt. Vesuvius.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Pailn is part of that culture

but she hardly started it...

Trust me on this, or not. I'd rather you don't and instead do some research on your own.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

38. Wow, NB,

not like you to be so condescending...whatever. But, good lesson to learn - don't assume
you know a poster's knowledge and background or lack thereof.

I was actually referring to a specific period in politics - a progress point I vividly remember where there was a moratorium on veiled bigotry toward Obama...until she opened the door and made it acceptable.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. A lesson of this board

is that facts are confused for being condescending.

I am not assuming a thing. The information I have to go by is what you posted. By what you posted I am going to assume you did not know that.

But that is the absolute lesson of this board. People hate those who know something. It's been this way forever. So ducks come to mind. And water.

Have an excellent day.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

41. sad day - thought you were nice. oh well. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. I am

I went by what you posted.

But knowledge is confused with other things and intents.

[yardwork]

45. You know, this really isn't all about you.

I'm sorry to sound condescending. I'm actually extremely angry. As a white woman living in the south with a partner who is a person of color, I was moved by the OP. Then I read down thread and see stupid bickering about people's feelings being hurt because a post might or might not be condescending.

I think that the point of the OP is that as white people we might want to fucking look beyond our little issues and take a look at the larger issue here.

Sorry. I'm angry.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Hugs, and the OP is correct

so are you. My only qualifier is that this venom is not just limited to the south. It is all over. It might be less obvious in other places, but the blood flag behind a fruit stand on the road to Julian in San Diego County, was a tad jarring a few years back (and a hell of a wake up call) We knew these groups existed, but usually they are a tad less conspicuous.

I remember one event for the previous paper I worked for. There was a battle flag flying across the street. Yes, this is smack dab in my back country, which was populated by many former soldiers of the confederacy. My former editor could not believe she was seeing that. I mean, it's not smack dab in the middle of the south doncha know? Truly a battle flag, in front of a government building, flying higher than the US Flag. It is not quite subtle either.

[yardwork]

47. Very true. I hope I'm not being a jerk. I guess all our feelings are raw.

I grew up in rural Ohio. In the next town over there was a very active "Christian" church that burned an enormous cross every year - in other words, they were the Klan. And there was a local restaurant that wouldn't serve African Americans, even into the 1970s. And most of the population was just fine with that, even though "We're not racist or anything..."

For white people, this could be a real wake-up call. It's not enough to turn our faces and pretend that we don't see (to paraphrase Bob Dylan). We have to speak out. Because this young man in South Carolina acted on the logical result of all this racist ideology that we allow to fester.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Working on an editorial on this

for reporting san diego

But due to people like the person you responded to. I avoid posting that material here. But among other things, quoting from the withdrawn intel report from DHS from 2009.

I find that having real deep discussions on a multitude of issues here is not possible any longer.

Our claim to fame in San Diego is giving rise to WAR, Tom Metzger's outfit. He left after he really pissed off the locals, and pissing them off took some doing.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

57. I can totally understand how you can not have deep discussions about a

multitude of issues.

After I explain that my comment about Palin was only referring to a political period in time, which was clarified, you continue to deride.

Anyone here who thinks ALL racism and bigotry, in general, started with Palin would have to be a 10 year old imbecile. And since I have been here since 2004, I hardly fit.

Turning a comment (albeit with context poorly explained) into the person hating knowledge, hating people with knowledge, being the cause of you not publishing an editorial, being something that ruins the OP, is totally ridiculous.

In my opinion, pouncing, accusing, and acting condescending hurts more on this board to squelch important conversations than any singular ill-written comment.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. In my view this place left the deep discussion

Possibilities at the latest circa 2011.

Not just me has noticed that.

I did not pounce on you. Since I know people hate to discuss things I told you to

A.- not take my word.
B.- Do some research.

Because

C.- From your statement it was clear to me you did not have an idea of this.

D.- I no longer post things that are extremely well sourced that deal with multiple issues here. Why? Doing such leads to accusations of thinking I know all. I don't. But those accusations are part of the anti intellectualism that is affecting the nation.

I not only admit when I don't know something. I actually go read it. And when people here have pointed to a hole in my knowledge. Less often these days since the site is a far shadow of what it once was, I thank them, and go search for that information.

Have an excellent day.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

64. Actually, I really don't fully understand where you are coming from - since

I don't think the situation warranted any hole in knowledge I needed to fill. I actually think
most of us do stop and research topics of the day. And, if someone doesn't who cares - just ignore it. Why cause ill will to anyone here regardless of their intelligence level? Just my take on it.

Anyway - Bygones !

I do agree with your statement about how much better DU once was. What I truly miss
is the analysis. You could post something like this (probably bad example) "Why do you think George Bush said X in his press conference?" and you would get dozens of comments about the pros and cons of his strategy, what he might be hiding, etc. etc.. Today, you would only get dozens of comments on why he is a jerk and why are you listening to him. Worthless.

We spend so much time talking about our own, cutting down the comments of other people and extremely little time analyzing the opposition. Hence, the obfuscation, caused by Trolls, perhaps. Trolls don't want us to analyze their actions and figure out counterarguments.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. Bygones

but these days I truly walk on eggshells.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

66. I didn't mean to make you feel that way, sorry. I have always had the

utmost respect for you - always. Peace !

[zappaman]

53. "Condescending" is a word that some people don't know.

And your post was correct.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

56. Right...a simple comment about Palin spewing hate (albeit with not enough qualifiers so that

everyone understands the context - my bad)....turns into an accusation that the person hates knowledge, hates those who have knowledge, needs to do research to improve their knowledge, ruins the OP post, and has to have an editorial hidden from them because of people like them.

It's absolutely hysterical.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Hmmm that word you used

Could be taken out of context by a particular group and lead to days of ahem "discussion". Or what passes for it these days.

[Kali]

49. no, people don't "hate those who know something"

however, some get irritated by jerks who ACT like they know EVERYTHING - even when confronted by proof that they are mistaken on numerous occasions.

facts and knowledge are not condescending, the WAY they get presented can be.

that is where the apparent "confusion" comes in.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. I needed to check my watch

thanks!

Just ducky!!!!

[zappaman]

54. Cute.

Adorable even.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. Ducky even

Thanks second check on my watch. It is indeed working.

[MynameisBlarney]

9. I now live in south florida

and this hate has been around long before Palin.

[mercuryblues]

32. It has always

been there. People like Palin just made it fashionable to be open an act on their hate and racism.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. But somehow

I am condescending for pointing this out

[elleng]

4. Thanks, Blarney.

Kiss the stone, rest, and do your best.

[MynameisBlarney]

10. No. Thank you!

And I will do my best. Even if it kills me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. It will take all of us to change this

and while this feels like part two of the civil rights movement, and in a time line it is, part one never truly ended.

[Samantha]

12. I agree with both of your posts on this thread about this subject

Racism has always flourished in the South. There has not been a resurgence in recent years, it has just been more openly displayed than prior to President Obama's election.

I have always said I would never live in a red state down south to save money. I have visited Tennessee often enough over the last few years to hear the "n" work publicly said (yet the "gay" word cannot be said). I could never be at peace in an environment like that.

I do not believe I will live long enough to see racism in this Country end, and that truly saddens me.

Sam

[Ghost in the Machine]

16. What part of Tennessee did you visit? I live in East Tn, but originally from Miami, Fl.. you DO know

that East Tn broke off with the rest of the State and fought for the Union, right??

Now, a few hours to the west is Pulaski, Tn... birthplace of the KKK. I know that the main headquarters for the Aryan Brotherhood was based out of Baltimore for many years, and is still a very active place. WAR (White Aryan Resistance) was ran from Indiana by Tom Metzger. Racism is alive and well all over the Country. If memory serves me correctly, NY, NJ & Penn have more racist groups than TN, NC, SC, and Alabama combined, according to the SPLC Hate Map site.

Peace,

Ghost

[Samantha]

35. Knoxville

I still have many relatives there. I have heard some use the "n" word at family reunions. I no longer go.

Sam

[Ghost in the Machine]

37. I'm about half-way between Chattanooga and Knoxville, about 45 mins south of Knox, it's one of

the Bluest cities around but, yeah, there are still racists everywhere around here... and about everywhere I've ever lived, from South Florida to Michigan..

Peace,

Ghost

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. WAR moved to Indiana

From San Diego's East County after Metzger got in real trouble with the locals. Trust me, that took quit a bit to do.

[woolldog]

17. Racism has flourished everywhere

not just the south. We have to get away from seeing racism as a southern thing. It's everywhere.

[MynameisBlarney]

18. Indeed

Racism is not regional.
It's worldwide.

[Samantha]

34. I am sure you are correct

I just can't talk about everywhere because I have only lived in the south and the east.

Sam

[MynameisBlarney]

25. You are indeed correct.

United we stand. Divided we fall.

[juxtaposed]

7. Stories to tell, we all have them. Years of not saying a thing, letting things stay.

Being a white person in the south allows me to see things as they are. 30 years in the south I've seen racism every day. I've talked to ppl that don't know me and assume they do and heard the N-word spoken with freedom. Racists will give you the shirt off their backs, great ppl, True americans, looking out for one another, but they are racist's to the core.
I have a broad and wide history with racism in the south, this is both left-wing and right-wing, I've seen it all over for years.
I know we are better, so I leave us their ..

[Nac Mac Feegle]

8. To quote Frank Zappa:

"Now, I'm not Black. But there's sure some times when I wish I could say I wasn't White."

[orpupilofnature57]

30. Great poet, who had defend free speech, not the same free speech,

that caused this, this is a result of being able to yell " FIRE! " in a crowded theatre .

[Spitfire of ATJ]

13. I'll post this link here as well....

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/noam-chomsky-slavery-and-white-fear-revenge-deeply-rooted-american-culture

[MynameisBlarney]

19. Thank you!

I'm not worried about black, brown, red, yellow, etc. people oppressing and/or killing me because I'm white.
I'm worried that racist white people will kill me because I refuse to help them oppress and/or kill people that aren't white.
Or the right kind of xtian.

I will be dead and full of holes before I let a fascist and racist theocracy take over this nation.

As far as I'm concerned, hate tv and radio are responsible, in part, a VERY LARGE PART, in point of fact, for the Charleston massacre.
They are sowing the seeds with Stochastic Terrorism, and this nation, and the world, is suffering from the fruits of their labor.
And it must be stopped.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

20. I'm familiar with the mindset...

They feel the only thing worse than a "ni**er" is a "ni**er lover".

They consider that to be a traitor to their race.

Hell, there are still white folks in the South who can ramble on about the ACLU until their eggs get cold.

[MynameisBlarney]

21. Yup.

I know those types of people.
They're from everywhere. Not just the South.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

22. I met some in Michigan.

[MynameisBlarney]

24. I met some in NC...

That were from England.
Fucking unabashed racists. And they could not fathom why I couldn't agree with their bullshit.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

27. One guy was a caracature of the type....

We're all sitting around telling funny stories and then he pipes up with one.

It was about the derailment of a work train full of black workers. There were no survivors and there were dismembered arms and legs and guts and blood all over the place.

That was the punchline.

HAW HAW HAW!!!! That's a real knee slapper! Ain't it!!!

[MynameisBlarney]

28. Damn!

That's pretty fucked up.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

29. I've noticed since then that right-wing humor often ends with someone they hate dying.

[panader0]

14. You have summarized my feelings too.

This thing in Charleston is gut wrenching.

[MynameisBlarney]

23. Gut wrenching

and heartbreaking.

[MrMickeysMom]

15. I've lived in South and North, yet...

…the only difference I see in the type of racism practiced north from south is how there are more "code words" in the North.

It's not quite South Carolina, but it's just as dangerous as the overt, blind, knuckle dragging no-nothings because it's stealth in the attempt to ACT like they are not that way.

Look, as a white woman who's walked among both those culture worlds, I can't pretend I don't battle with there being differences in black/white cultures. I'm too aware of us never having DEALT with it.

Is it going to cost us more and more? We need to get that good ole fuckin GRIP we've all been talking about.

[Kalidurga]

26. I know the feeling I had some friends that moved down south.

at the time I was scared, now I am terrified.

[hootinholler]

31. Thanks fror that!

Sign me up, except I'm not particularly a southern man, but I was raised in the Alabama bits of Pennsylvania.

[JanMichael]

33. i am sick of the insanity too. saw a friend yesterday & she said her daughter is terrified.

her exact words were "had to talk her off the ledge". it is awful that a 20 something college student is in that state. that time of life is for growing up and having some freedom and fun not thinking about murderous CSA freaks.

if a black person did not knowme personally then i would expect them to think i m8ght be a fucking ammosexual racist freak who could start shooting any moment.

fuck people that say this was not terrorism and that mongrel bowl cut dork isnt a terrorist. water board the pos.

and yes i am a white male in the south, although raised out west, and my friend is black.

[roamer65]

36. Here is what bothers me the most.

Eight African American people of faith welcomed this *thing* into their midst with open arms and he, in a hate-filled premeditated act, murdered them all and violating that trust.
I really hope that African Americans realize that not all of us white European Americans are anything like that SOB. Most of us do believe in life, liberty and equality for every American. As a white American, I am ashamed and extremely embarrassed by this crime. My prayers are with the victims and their families.

[Stuart G]

42. Thanks for posting and shareing...k and r.

[ann---]

51. What is RS?

[MynameisBlarney]

55. RS

Is Raw Story.

[ann---]

58. Thanks

[MynameisBlarney]

59. Anytime

[gwheezie]

52. I live in rural Virginia, raised up north

It depends on where you live as far as the comfort some whites have in their racism. The racism is there but where I have been living for the past 20 years some of the white folks have no problem spouting off racist crap down at the dollar store with no reservations,no matter how many little black children are in earshot. Last week I was picking up a load of hay and it was kinda tetering on the truck and one of the racists said be careful when you take that turn by the nigger church. I said I don't want to do business with you again, i'll be buying my hay from Jerry from now on. Jerry is an AA local farmer. Jerry can be a pain in the ass but he has good hay. You have to earn the privilege of being one of his customers. It took me about 5 years to convince him I was worthy of his hay now I have to go bring Jerry and his brother a peace offering for buying hay from elsewhere. This is going to take some epic groveling.