He's as "mentally ill" as every other rightwing Republican.

[villager]

Last edited Thu Jun 18, 2015, 10:28 PM - Edit history (3)

Which is to say, yes, he is actually mentally ill, but so are they all, with their hatred, their willingness to kill off the biosphere of their own planet (to what? make a point? make a profit?), whether by killing it with climate shift or irradiating it with the "correct" side's bombs, et al.

Of course he's ill of mind and spirit. As is everyone at Fox. As are most in Washington. As is present day America.


On edit: Since my post is no longer two spaces away on the front page from the post about Fox news and the general dismissiveness of something they had a hand in creating, it may make less sense without that context.

Perhaps it should have been in reply to that post.

I'll put "mentally ill" in quotes, at least, to try and make it clearer. But that's what the OP was in response to. The original use of the phrase, and the attempts to hide behind it, by rightwing mouthpieces.

[Bjorn Against]

1. Most right-wingers are not mentally ill, nor are most violent people

The large majority of violent people do not have any sort of mental illness and the large majority of people who do have a mental illness are not violent. Mentally ill people are far more likely to be the victims of violence than the perpetrators.

The mentally ill are a minority group, they have a disability and we should not be beating up on a minority group every time there is a shooting. As a person who has a mentally ill family member who is both non-violent and a solid Democrat I am offended by these sorts of attempts to portray the mentally ill as violent right-wingers. The mentally ill face enough stigma as it is, the sort of bigotry expressed in the OP makes that stigma even worse.

[villager]

2. I think we need a larger definition of mental imbalance, and what is "crazy"

You don't kill off your biosphere if you are a "well" species.

[Bjorn Against]

3. It is not mental illness though

There are all kinds of crazy things that have been embraced by society, that is not the result of mental illness it is largely because of greed and the fact that people are easily misled.

Please don't call it mental illness because there are people who really do suffer from mental illness and they are generally not the people who are destroying the planet.

[villager]

4. I realize you are talking about physiological aspects, whereas I'm talking about the colloquial

....use of "mentally ill" in the wake of these violent upheavals.

My point is there are larger imbalances, sicknesses out there, our society runs on them, and it is a fundamentally "ill" place.

So the shooter is of course, "ill," as he's the produce of a even sicker subculture of a generally sick, spiritually withered polity.

[Bjorn Against]

5. No, I am talking about mental illness and you are talking about something else entirely

What you are talking about is not mental illness, there is not a single credible doctor in the world who would diagnose all right-wingers as having a mental illness.

I think I understand what you are trying to say, but as a family member of a person who has a real mental illness I ask that you please don't associate my family member with right-wing racists. There are plenty of ways to make the same point without stigmatizing the mentally ill.

[villager]

6. And I am saying that if we're going to use the mentally ill "pass" for events spawned by the larger

...society, then we need to rethink what and who are "mentally ill," and what we really mean by that.

[Bjorn Against]

7. No, I am not going to rethink who my brother is

As a person who has a family member with a mental illness I sure as hell am not going to "rethink" mental illness in a way that would tie my brother to all kinds of repulsive people.

Look, I don't think you meant any harm by this post but I also don't think you have really considered how offensive it might be to people who suffer from a mental illness or their family members. Go ahead and call right-wingers crazy, I am fine with that because crazy does not necessarily mean mentally ill. When you use the words "mentally ill" you are referring to a disability and we should not be attacking the disabled. You may have not meant it as an attack on the disabled, but that is how it comes across.

[villager]

8. I too have known friends suffering from diagnosed mental illness.

I am saying there are larger "sicknesses" afoot as well as the individual maladies, and the larger ones are just as "present" in atrocities like this.

[Bjorn Against]

9. You are talking about societal illness, not mental illness

We certainly do have many societal ills, most of them have nothing to do with mental illness. I get what you are trying to say, I just ask that you don't tie these societal problems to my brother. I don't think you were thinking of anyone like my brother when you made this post so I don't think you were intentionally associating my brother with these repulsive people, but you did so unintentionally. I can forgive that, all I ask is that you listen to what I am saying and avoid associating the mentally ill with right-wingers in the future.

[MohRokTah]

10. He's got the same mental illness white people have had on this continent for over...

400 years.

[world wide wally]

11. Does "mentally disturbed" work better?

[villager]

12. Yes. And in describing the overall present historical moment, as well

n/t

[underahedgerow]

43. I'm willing to bet that his 'justification' will be about unrequited 'love' for a young lady of

of color and his conflicting emotions on that and his own sexual issues.

From the look of him, and his drug addictions notwithstanding, this is a guy who has never fit in too well. He has numerous POC as 'friends' on FB and I'm willing to bet one of those young ladies wasn't interested in him and was likely dating another guy.

He's not the typical skinhead nutjob, and yeah, I said nutjob. Mentally ill is too kind a phrase.

There are mentally ill people who manage their illnesses and at least try to cope with this life, and do, one way or another, successfully.

This kind of nutjob is one who lets his addictions grip and control his life. He wasn't a total tweaker from the look of things and I'm guessing he was quite enabled by his family. He looks rather fit, healthy, clean clothes, a decent car, enough money to buy stupid crap off Ebay (the Apartied patches). The haircut makes me question a lot though, and I sense some mommy issues there. If he really was a wildly racist skinhead type, he's be a skinhead. He's sporting a child's haircut.

Lastly, there isn't a murderer on this earth that isn't mentally ill, or a nutjob in the extreme. Normal, healthy people don't go on spree killings, or kill their wives; children and girlfriends or boyfriends or friends or little kids in a school or people in a shopping mall or a church or in skyscrapers, abortion clinics or federal buildings, or join ISIS with all those horrors attached. The common link is some sort of obsessive behavior and those behaviors are patterned with other obsessions and always some sort of paranoia. Even Ted Kadzinki was an obsessive liberal, certain that the government was out to get him. But most often with these obsessions are the irrational links to religion, an authority figure, or the government as an authority figure, and often combined with sex.

[HereSince1628]

13. NAME THE DISORDER, or shut up

What I see is exploitation of a popular rhetoric, with no sense of it's potential to actually hurt people with mental disorders.

Did you know that the national average unemployment rate of the mentally ill hovers at 80%?

Do you think blaming all problems stemming from your political opponents are REALLY due to their mental illness?

Really?

[villager]

14. have they named the disorder? That's the whole point.

The culture tries to put it all on an individual and his "disorder," without seeing the larger responsibility, or patterns.

[HereSince1628]

15. I think the point is you apply the notion of mental illness capriciously

You suggest that Roof is just another republican...thereby mentally disordered.

You hate republicans so you use the mentally disordered as a standard of debasement of republicans.

How can that possibly be good or even neutral toward people who are victims of illness?

[villager]

16. No, I was responding to the way it gets bandied about after these atrocities by Fox, the GOP, and

everyone else. They seek to pin such atrocities on a single individual and his "illness," rather than looking at the deeper, more profound ways that they too are "unwell."

The ways that our larger sicknesses are repeatedly the author of such events. And will be again.

[HereSince1628]

17. Your subject line says otherwise

" He's as mentally ill as every other rightwing Republican"

Read what you wrote and contemplate the collateral insult it demands.

I can't imagine such a bigoted stereotypical statement being made on DU about LGBT, women, blacks, or Hispanics.

What makes the mentally disordered such a target, other than bigoted stereotyping?

[villager]

18. It was in response to another post on the page at the time, saying Fox was calling him mentally ill

n/t

[HereSince1628]

19. that my dear villager is called 'an excuse'

[villager]

20. No, my dear Here, that is called an "explanation."

That's what my post was in response to -- the post about Fox.

But I agree without that context, my own OP may read differently.

[HereSince1628]

23. lol try something similar substituting a term of any element of LGBT

Shocking invocation of ableism.

Simply shocking in it's overt application and ignorance of impact.

[villager]

24. Again, I was responding to a post about Fox's use of the phrase.

Kind of a "physician, heal thyself" response.

[HereSince1628]

26. hardly an acceptable excuse.

You demean the mentally ill by intent or accident and won't consider an apology.

Nice. Very fine. Excuse yourself. That -IS- the definition of ableist self-priviledge.

[villager]

27. Uh no, I don't. Perhaps those who use the phrase for political expediency do?

[LanternWaste]

50. The "disorder" is called popular culture...

The "disorder" is called popular culture... to which we all embrace, rationalize and accept as reality to one degree or another.

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. This post needs a good washing with self-delete fluid, methinks.

[Juicy_Bellows]

38. You ain't kidding. Wow. Nt.

[ileus]

22. If only we could kill them before they kill us....right?

[Snobblevitch]

25. Who?

Labeling every right wing Republican as mentally ill would not be an accurate diagnosis, as if one could be made on every right wing Republican. I think that statement is an insult to those people, Republicans or Democrats, who have to live with mental illness everyday of their lives.

[villager]

28. How do we label the general "unwellness" of society? Especially those who help author such crimes,

and like to attribute it to some other person's illness, without looking at their own roles? Or grievous imbalances?

[Snobblevitch]

33. You seem to be on the edge of a question

witbout really saying wxactly what you mean. I don't know what it is you are looking for.

[villager]

34. I don't know. I saw an actual question mark in my post.

Perhaps you're on the edge of an answer?

[Snobblevitch]

35. Ask me a question with specifics rather

than vague generalities and I will attempt to answer.

[villager]

36. I did already.

Sorry if it didn't suit you.

[Snobblevitch]

39. I had no idea what you were asking.

It's ok if you did not get the answer you were looking for. Was this some sort of push-pull that I did not recognize? You can use one-syllable words if you think it will help.

[Throd]

29. "That helps"

[Mopar151]

30. Can we agree to use a term like mass hysteria

Mass delusion, the madness of crowds, IQ of a mob rule, etc.

[villager]

32. Sure -- again I was responding to the rightwing/Fox use of the term...

But the mass delusion runs fairly deep... in our species.

[840high]

31. Strongly unrec.

[jwirr]

37. I have real trouble seeing him as mentally ill. Have lived around people who actually have a

diagnosis of mental illness all my life and every single one of them had a hard time hiding it. Yet this kids school mates and neighbors call him a sweet boy. Now it is true that an illness may have just started at this age and people did not have time to see.

But I think he has merely been brainwashed by hate propaganda and is now a hater with feelings of arrogance (after all he is white). He was systematic in his planning and able to assemble all the things he needed for this killing. Took the pictures with the flags and planned a getaway. The people in my family may start with big (manic) ideas but it seldom works out that way.

[Juicy_Bellows]

40. Some interesting takes on what you wrote.

It's a sensitive subject but given the context and your replies in this thread, your point is valid. Not that you need or seek my validation.

[villager]

41. Hey, thanks for the considered reply!

And welcome to DU!

[Juicy_Bellows]

45. Thanks! nt.

[stage left]

42. As my daughter said on face book today

It fries me when people attribute horrendous acts like this to mental illness. Dylann Roof is not ill, he is evil. And I will add he knew exactly what he was doing.

[villager]

44. I would agree.

But what do we call the societal sickness that gives rise to such things?

[stage left]

48. I would tend to call it ignorance

poverty, prejudice, lack of empathy and a deep seated fear and hatred of the other, which is, unfortunately, not a snappy two word description like "Mentally Ill." It is the fear and hatred that right wing propaganda machines like Fox News work to reinforce. The easy availablity of guns doesn't help.

Just last month, I walked in a campaign sponsered by the National Alliance for Mental Illnes. We are raising money to educate people about mental illness and trying to remove the stigma that, in some cases, prevents people from getting help for their diseases. And, make no mistake, mental illnesses are physical illnesses. The people suffering from them are much more likely to kill themselves than they are to kill others.

[Gothmog]

46. Roof will try to claim insanity but this is case where the defense should not work

[fizzgig]

47. no, they're not mentally ill

yeah, yeah, yeah. you keep saying it's in reaction to fox, but you're propagating that meme yourself. the behaviors you listed are NOT the result of a chemical imbalance or physiological issue, they're all learned behaviors stemming from self-perceived supremacy and inherent privilege.

i am so sick of this shit.

[stage left]

49. +1

I like your answer better than my own. I'm sick of it, too.

[J_J_]

52. "self-perceived supremacy" -where do they get that?

Usually that is all about ego, they really feel bad about themselves (which they should) so they lash out at others.

I don't understand why they don't have access to logic, and just change their behavior so they could feel good about themselves.

I don't know what this is, but my family treated my husband and I exactly like Republicans go after Obama...way before the current Republican rhetoric.

What is that? I have spent decades trying to figure it out.

Why does anyone feel good tearing down others, making stuff up just to feel good about themselves?

Is it genetic? They appear to use a different part of their brains than foward thinking liberals.

It sure would be nice if psychologists studied what has gone terribly wrong in our society, instead of just handing our anti depressants.

[on point]

51. Perhaps why his ranting not worth reporting. No different than other rw nut cases

His just didn't stand out as any different than the hatred, simmering anger and threatening violence of his ilk.

[villager]

55. The shooter was indeed "part and parcel" of the entire GOP/rightwing "movement..."

n/t

[SamKnause]

53. They are not mentally ill !!!

They are evil, hateful, racists.

[villager]

54. Hence my use of quotes, when citing the "hide-behind" used by Fox....

n/t