Here we go with the mental illness bullshit

[bigdarryl]

I'm watch Al Sharpton show and some woman is on there talking about his mental state.Al should have cut her off with that bullshit.This guy is a racist murderer.

[randys1]

1. To be fair, he is mentally ill in that as a white, privileged American, he, like many

is full of shit.

So I guess being full of shit makes you mentally ill.

I said many, hell it is most.

ALL rightwing cons are racists and many who dont call themselves rightwing are as well

[Kalidurga]

3. Racism is a mental illness.

Has anyone ever met a stable racist? Yeah, I don't think so.

[randys1]

4. THen big problem with Reagan closing all the mental facilities, given we have at least

30 million racists or hell twice that.

[Kalidurga]

8. 30 million sounds about right.

But, I don't think racism is listed in and DSM manual. It should be, but it runs concurrent with so many other mental problems. Interesting you bring up Reagan though, he might have felt like he was liberating people he felt an affinity with.

[HereSince1628]

19. At least name a symptom recognized by the APA that is linked to racism.

This just looks like an appeal to what everyone knows on the street...which is mostly stigmatizing lables, prejudice and discrimination against the mentally ill.

Can you NAME a symptom of mental illness that would produce such dysfunction?

I think it's possible...but I don't know that you know one

[SwankyXomb]

27. Voting Republican.

[HereSince1628]

32. Forgive me, but that's really irrational bordering to the point of tauntingly, purposefully

vacuous.

Which I suppose was your very clever intent.

[HereSince1628]

18. I call upon you to provide the name of the mental disorder

If you can't I'll assume you are just blowing off steam and the mentally ill are a convenient target.

Go for it. I'm ready and I can take it.

[Kalidurga]

35. Pathological Bias

No it's not in the DSM some people in the field are working toward getting it there. But, I don't view the DSM as the mental health bible. I am going on my experience. I don't know what comes first the chicken or the egg, but I know my mother was very ill she was treated for something once she didn't share what that was, but she was very violent and physically abusive, she tried to kill my dad a couple of times. She would sleep for up to 16 hours a day when she was having one of her spells. I would say major depression, but I don't have a degree to make that official. My Ex also a racist displayed a lot of paranoia and he is crippled by it in a lot of ways. But, like I said the people I have known have concurrent problems, so I can't really tell are those problems because they are racist or is it easier to develop a racist philosophy when you already have another disorder?

I would challenge anyone to find someone who has racist tendencies so extreme that they kill to find them mentally healthy.

[HereSince1628]

37. As you say not in the DSM which is to say just plain CRAP.

Anecdote isn't evidence in this case. I'm sorry for your personal difficulties but they don't generalize.

Yes, killing in the name of racist interest seems like it should be related to a psychological dysfunction...but if you claim it is, it's your responsibility to make the linkage.

You don't.

That's a problem. You've made the claim and you've got to close the loop. If and when you do, we might find ourselves in a circumstance to consider what justice might mean for the killer. If you were a jurist your argument could let the killer go free or it might not. Consider what your position really implies.

[Kalidurga]

38. No pedophiles don't get away with that, rapist don't get away with that, most murderers...

don't get away with that. What it would mean is insurance could help cover the cost of treatment. It could mean a conviction and a sentence to a mental institution where it's unlikely they would ever be released.

[HereSince1628]

39. NAME THE DISORDER. You made the claim. Now fit it to a nosology

or acknowledge your were simply venting about a terrible event.

[Kalidurga]

40. There are 200 classified mental illnesses

and several unclassified. I named the unclassified one.

[HereSince1628]

41. And thereby you avoid the accepted nosology. What makes your view exceptional and correct?

That's a problem you have to overcome. It erodes the creditability of your argument

Personal opinion IS NOT ENOUGH. Grasp the handholds in the discipline and bring it home...or admit it was a non-serious emotional appeal.

[Kalidurga]

42. I am sorry I am ahead of the curve.

There are other people who have actual training who are working on the issue, it's been at least since 2005. Of those 200 classified mental illnesses all 200 were not initially in DSM I. Some one had to identify the illness and make a case for it and get other people to make a case for it and then they had to study it to make sure. Now as I have said before everyone I have known that is racist has a co-morbid disorder, I can't diagnose it, but I sure as hell can notice dysfunction when I see it.

[HereSince1628]

44. The DSM I wasn't the standard in 2005, or 1995 or 1985 or 1975

Yes, disorders are added...as justified. And every edition excludes many suggested disorders.

NAME THE DISORDERS OR DON'T MAKE THE CLAIM.

You MUST AT LEAST be able to NAME SYMPTOMS, which may occur in multiple disorders and which may require significant effort to proper associate with a disorder.

YOU DON'T DO ANY OF THIS.

I must therefore conclude you are blowing smoke up everyone's ass.

[uppityperson]

26. Yes, I have met a stable racist. You seem to be defining "mental illness" quite broadly

[hughee99]

45. Holy shit! All our candidates are mentally ill? NT

[mcar]

2. Saw it too

Disgusting. Also ridiculous. "Oh he's been spending a lot of time in his room so he must be mentally ill."

She obviously doesn't know any teenagers.

[immoderate]

5. Killing people for their race, is not is not a sign of sanity.

--imm

[orpupilofnature57]

6. End of story, I agree . And while Democracy is hanging in the balance, MSM

will tell us his history, what he ate before the shootings, and on and on .

[Warpy]

7. Well adjusted people don't join white supremacy groups

Yes, the kid was an unhappy loner with issues. Who in that movement isn't?

They need to look around him, especially at the parents who named him "Storm" as a middle name. My guess is that the shit didn't fall far from the bats.

[leftstreet]

9. ...or kill people

[uponit7771]

10. ignorant ones do, the German population wasn't given Zantax after industrialized murder ...

... they were educated about what their hatred brung

[Warpy]

11. Zantac? Ulcers?

I have no idea what you're trying to say there.

Germans weren't ignorant. If they wanted to keep their jobs, they had to join. If they wanted the kids to go to university, the kids joined Hitler Youth and turned in their parents if they said anything against Hitler.

[uponit7771]

13. Yes ulcer medicine when we're talking about mental illness cause I couldn't mean anything

... else.

Either way...

I don't believe every German know everything that was going on during the early 40s...

[Gregorian]

15. I agree. Plus, I think "mental illness" is too broad a term.

We all lose it, and some more than others depending upon that thing we don't want to call "illness".

I think you nailed it, with the Storm comment, even if it's a fairly wild generalization. It hits at the heart of the notion that perhaps that person doing the killing was not nurtured, loved, supported, and given the chances to grow properly.

Whatever it is that keeps people from going over the edge, that is what this guy was missing. Maybe. Who knows. But it's very worth communities asking these questions.

[Ex Lurker]

12. My father is a retired district attorney

At one time, he prosecuted a white guy who shot took a walk down the street and randomly shot several African Americans. I believe one was killed, or maybe none, it was a very long time ago and I don't remember all the details. You probably never heard of the incident, it was before the internet, social media, and the 24 hour news cycle. If it happened today, it would be worldwide news for a few days. My dad secured a murder conviction that was overturned on appeal, and in the second trial he was found not guilty by reason of insanity. The guy is a diagnosed schizophrenic, and he heard voices. The voices told him to kill black people. They could just as easily have told him to kill everyone he saw wearing a green shirt.

The shooter currently resides in a locked down psych facility, where he will probably remain for the rest of his life. When he's on meds, he's functional and nonviolent, but he can't be trusted to stay on them without supervision. How do you categorize a guy like that? Racist? Mentally ill? Both? Something else?

[Lizzie Poppet]

14. He probably IS mentally ill. Doesn't stop him from being a terrorist and bigot.

[PCIntern]

16. Lizzie: that is correct...

He is mentally ill, a racist, and a bigot simultaneously.

One can be a racist and a bigot and not be mentally ill, and you can be a wonderfully progressive liberal and be mentally ill. I should know: I'm related to a few of the latter!

[NightWatcher]

17. "Fucked up" is not in the DSM-5th Edition and is not an excuse.

He's a bigot who planned, practiced shooting, premeditated, and slaughtered innocents because of their skin color and his hatred. Pictures of him wearing racist patches on the down low prove his mindset before the crime.

[hifiguy]

20. He is definitely at the age where schizophrenia often begins to manifest itself.

He was probably a racist asshole beforehand. That is a bad combination, and it would be no surprise if these two things worked together to short-circuit his three-volt brain.

[HereSince1628]

21. He's at the age where MANY mental disorders are near their peak incidence rates.

Age isn't evidence of mental illness or even a condition of susceptibility. Age of onset is a descriptive correlation

[hifiguy]

22. That was my point, though I didn't set it forth clearly.

Schizophrenia, among other things, tends to make itself apparent in the late teens and early twenties. This has echoes of that kid who shot up Virginia Tech - same age group, loner with a bad attitude and a history of mental issues.

[HereSince1628]

23. I haven't read any accounts that suggest he's schizophrenic...I may have missed them

His arguments reek of mistaken information or racist propaganda.

Whether his awareness of such fake information connects to a cognitive deficits in delusion or an obsession that plays upon some anxiety or fear of racial others is completely unclear to me at this time.

[hifiguy]

24. I simply think it is premature to say that the punk

was "definitely not" mentally ill, as some on this thread are doing.

[HereSince1628]

25. IMO agnosticism is appropriate at this time

[hifiguy]

28. Yup. Let the headshrinkers have a go at him

and see if they can figure out what makes him tick.

[uppityperson]

29. I simply think it is premature to say that the punk was "definitely" mentally ill, as some on this

thread are doing.

To do a copy/change/paste. It is too soon to diagnose mental illness. It is tempting to, but too soon.

[HereSince1628]

33. No unlicensed person who hasn't interviewed the person and reviewed records

if they exist, from other professionals should be offering a dx of mental illness.

Murder, and certainly mass murder is deviant behavior that, other conditioning factors not intervening, is criminal behavior.

[uppityperson]

34. I agree. I have changed over the last couple years, fwiw

I used to think most mass murderers were mentally ill, now think they can just be criminals. It depends on how "mentally ill" is defined. If it is going against the good of society, then many are. But that is not what the diagnosis for being mentally is based on. So now, I agree. He needs to be diagnosed by a reputable professional.

It is tempting to call people who act against the good "mentally ill", but that is too simplistic.

[HereSince1628]

36. Yes, and it generates discrimination against the mentally ill. Did you know that unemployment

among the mentally ill is more than DOUBLE unemployment for any racial/ethnic minority?????

As a nation, we really need to be careful about how we diminish people and make them vulnerable to discrimination of a non-thinking majority in search of scapegoats

[AuntPatsy]

30. Agree

[Jamastiene]

31. It really irritates me that people automatically claim racist murderers

MUST be mentally ill when no evidence has even been brought up about that person's mental state. A hatemonger is a hatemonger. The fact that this guy had a solid hour to think about what he was going to do and still did it shows he knew it was wrong but he did it anyhow.

[valerief]

43. Yep! nt