General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGun advocates don't just oppose gun control and discussions of gun control
Post in discussion forums and you will find that many that oppose gun control also oppose educational programs and cultural approaches which discourage gun use and gun possession, but don't actually outlaw or regulate it.
Many don't even want you saying that guns are not the solution to violence.
It's no wonder that many of us suspect that these are not the words of activists, but lobbyists for the gun manufacturers and their trade associations.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Tsk, tsk.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)it's not a smear to say what is apparent from such a name.
Johonny
(20,854 posts)it feeds a culture of hate. They are a hate organization pure and simple. The apologist posts today would be a laugh if their culture of hate wasn't so sad.
elleng
(130,989 posts)and they've paid 'good' $ to brainwash those who are badly educated and subject to propaganda.
TampaAnimusVortex
(785 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)deathrind
(1,786 posts)I have never advocated for the banning of guns altogether. A person should be able to hunt or sport shot all they like.
But I have advocated for reasonable control and requirements. Reasonable control and requirements being a ban on assault weapons and high cap mags. Recurring registration for firearms, safety courses and 100% background checks for all firearm sales...but even that type of language is not permitted.
Call Me Wesley
(38,187 posts)Ooops, did I say 'loaded?'
hunter
(38,319 posts).
villager
(26,001 posts)n/t
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)we're done.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)there's already a forum where gun control threads can get junked up with NRA created memes and falsehoods, there should be one where that doesn't happen.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)That is a good one. I am sure the OP will post links to all of us firearms owners here opposed to training and reasonable regulations.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)for a long time, attempted to shut down any discussion of guns *at all* in General Discussion.
it was rather obvious.
"no gunz, no gunz" in GD...
(what they didn't say: "because we're outnumbered in here"
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)And Skinner's guidance of guns in GD unlike some here.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and you know what they all do and don't do?
how interesting.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)But I can see the locked posts in GD. Guess which side is posting them against the SOP and the admins wishes. Hint, it is not the RKBA side.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)It really is quite funny how you guys obsess over the fact GCRA that even exists. It drives you nuts, and every time I see one of you whine about it existing, I smile
You're doing a fine job proving the OP's point, though:
Guns are not the solution to gun violence.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)BTW, I see you only managed to scrape two cartoons. Things a little slow these days?
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)got it.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and in fact, they do care about such discussions, if they occur on websites or in places with much readership.
or else they wouldn't be on Facebook and the like.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)I'm sure we'll miss the Goldilocks Moment again. That time when it's just right to talk about the proliferation of guns in our society and its violent components. It just never quite seems to be the right time. It's "too soon" and we should give everyone a chance to grieve and heal a little bit. Or it's too late, and the teachable moment has passed. Or - and this is the case with disturbing frequency - another massacre has occurred and we have to start all over again.
The blood of the victims is still on the woodwork at Emanuel AME, and there are those for whom this is nothing but a political game, sport to be made of the dead and their grieving. It's a despicable display of inhumanity. There are others who see the discussion as a threat to their livelihood, because they make their living off the misery inflicted by gun violence. That's a despicable display of greed as well as inhumanity.
One thing's for sure: We'll keep seeing it happen as long as advocates for the firearms industry and the culture of violence that surrounds continue to dictate the norms of our society.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I am so disappointed in DU right now...those people are dead and the gun people here just want to defend their 2nd A rights? How about a little respect for the dead before such self righteous sanctimony? I don't think those families are thinking about their "concern" right about now.
This is unbecoming behavior...
pintobean
(18,101 posts)Gun grabber threads went up in GD before any of the bodies were cold. It's the same thing every time there's a mass shooting. Where are the pro gun threads?
The exploitation is unbecoming behavior.
beevul
(12,194 posts)Yup, and its predictable as the sun rising in the east.
Like clockwork, every single time.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)villager
(26,001 posts)...to tell you that climate change has nothing, ever, at all, to do with weather disasters!
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)that the gun folks are intruding on their personal grief with their sermons on guns. Is there no such thing as a "decent interval" any more? Do we honestly feel that the mourners want to hear about the gun owners defense of their 2nd A rights at this time in their lives? Really? Really?
villager
(26,001 posts)Perhaps out of some deep buried, never-to-be-acknowledged guilt, as they know that they've been advocates for the very policies making such tragedies not only more likely, but inevitable.
As, again, with climate deniers!
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)mourners! Enough!
villager
(26,001 posts)I was trying to comment on their need to instantly snark, use smilies, for Crissakes, with blood still wet on the floor, etc...
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)the floor."
villager
(26,001 posts)They have no particular decency, in fact, seem to feel increasingly emboldened, after each of these tragedies with their oh-so-favorite implements.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)this kind of grief. I've been there. It's tragedy unbelievably squared and worse. It is unsupportable by those who experience it. I can't explain it. I can only feel it. I wish I didn't.
villager
(26,001 posts)First two were domestic violence, the last evidently a gang drive-by.
Yeah, generally the gleeful snarkers have never experienced such things themselves.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)he collapsed at his daughter's coffin at the funeral...went downhill from there...
Tragedy upon tragedy upon tragedy...
sorry, I'm undone tonight, truly...
villager
(26,001 posts)I can imagine not being able to recover from the deep shock of certain heartbreaks...
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)no need to go into it further. But this is why I am so deeply affected about the SC tragedy. Those poor families of the victims! I know a bit about what they are going thru, but of course I can never know the depth of their suffering...all I know is the feeling of affinity...
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)but don't put guilt on us to get us to stop talking about this tragedy right now.
talking about it is not wrong.
talking about how to stop it is not wrong.
not now and not tomorrow and not next week.
i would not go to the funeral or the wake or a gathering and speak about something that was not welcome.
but this is the public square. just as sure as Rudy Giuliani is saying right now that we can't know what motivated the killer, we are here and everywhere to set the record straight.
beevul
(12,194 posts)Did it read something like this:
Due to the recent tragedy, only those who are loyal and true to anti-gun ideology may speak today, or on this issue.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Is that about what you had in mind?
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)beevul
(12,194 posts)Well, I haven't commented alt all, except to respond to people on your side of the issue, who are studiously ignoring any notion of a decent interval, or comment to others about said studious avoidance.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)the dead and comfort their families.
beevul
(12,194 posts)I do reserve the right to respond to nonsense, and factual discrepancy, however.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)I don't see Civil Rights Leaders calling for silence and I don't think you should imply that it's disrespectful if they don't remain silent after a tragedy like this.
We're trying to change crap like this, and staying silent hurts the Civil Rights movement.
Response to pintobean (Reply #22)
Eleanors38 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Anti gun threads were up before the full facts of the shooting were known, and you have the nerve to blame the pro 2A members?
Utterly amazing excrement.
Why don't you post a link to a pro 2A thread started since this horrific shooting.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I don't like 2nd A sermons right about now. That debate can happen. We need to be respectful and mourn the deaths.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)krispos42
(49,445 posts)... to make them socially inferior, social outcasts, politically incorrect, etc?
Shocking.
That is, in my opinion at least, the real point and purpose of most of the gun laws that are proposed. Useless except as some sort of multi-generational tool to shift society away from gun ownership.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Leave them alone. They have enough to deal with right now.
My heart is with them tonight and has been all day.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)beevul
(12,194 posts)Yup.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)N/t
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I'm in too much grief right now. Trying to work through it. It's hard...
Skittles
(153,169 posts)FUCKING COWARDS
countryjake
(8,554 posts)on gun violence, but will then quickly throw the lack of that research into any and every discussion, demanding "statistics", "where's the peer-reviewed studies?", knowing damn well that the NRA has blocked such research every single time it's suggested by our lawmakers.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/09/us/nra-gun-research/index.html?iref=obinsite
~snip~
Since the 1990s, the powerful pro-gun NRA has targeted the heart of what most legislation is based on: studies about the effects of gun violence.
~snip~
The NRA says it is simply ensuring that taxpayer money isn't being used to promote a political agenda.
"If gun control groups ... (and) individuals want to further their research, we're not saying they shouldn't be able to do it," NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam told CNN. "We're just saying they shouldn't be using public funds to do it."
But public health experts say it's all part of an attempt by the NRA-led pro-gun lobby to hamstring lawmakers.
"If a bunch of people do research and generate solid evidence that suggests firearms policy should be reformed and either firearms or people who used them should be regulated in new ways, (if I'm a gun-rights advocate,) I'm not going to like that," said Dr. Garen Wintemute, head of the violence prevention research program at the University of California at Davis.
"So, I'll simply prevent the evidence from being collected in the first place. It's a brilliant strategy, and (the gun lobby) succeeded."
beevul
(12,194 posts)See, thats hard to buy, when those making and supporting such accusations regularly ignore government research that was done by the CDC as commissioned by President Obama:
2. Most indices of crime and gun violence are getting better, not worse. Overall crime rates have declined in the past decade, and violent crimes, including homicides specifically, have declined in the past 5 years, the report notes. Between 2005 and 2010, the percentage of firearm-related violent victimizations remained generally stable. Meanwhile, firearm-related death rates for youth ages 15 to 19 declined from 1994 to 2009. Accidents are down, too: Unintentional firearm-related deaths have steadily declined during the past century. The number of unintentional deaths due to firearm-related incidents accounted for less than 1 percent of all unintentional fatalities in 2010.
5. Mass shootings arent the problem. The number of public mass shootings of the type that occurred at Sandy Hook Elementary School accounted for a very small fraction of all firearm-related deaths, says the report. Since 1983 there have been 78 events in which 4 or more individuals were killed by a single perpetrator in 1 day in the United States, resulting in 547 victims and 476 injured persons. Compare that with the 335,000 gun deaths between 2000 and 2010 alone.
7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008, says the report. The three million figure is probably high, based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys. But a much lower estimate of 108,000 also seems fishy, because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use. Furthermore, Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was 'used' by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/06/handguns_suicides_mass_shootings_deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Suckers and dupes.
They're trash.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)aikoaiko
(34,173 posts)In modern times, the first big restriction was the 1934 National Firearms Act - with special registration of machine guns and or other guns in certain configurations. And then fairly constantly with the passing of the 1968 Gun Control Act.
Some restrictions have been lifted int he last 20 years, but gun ownership is still way more restricted than it was prior to 1968.
There is a link to industry, of course. If the industry is restricted then its harder for the people to enjoy the liberty.
Rex
(65,616 posts)IOW, some people like him are scumbags deluxe. Anyone here agree with him? Speak up, now is the time. Don't be shy.