Obama On Charleston Shooting: 'This Type Of Mass Violence Does Not Happen In Other Advanced Countrie

[Eugene]

Source: Huffington Post

Obama On Charleston Shooting: 'This Type Of Mass Violence Does Not Happen In Other Advanced Countries'

The Huffington Post | By Ashley Alman
Posted: 06/18/2015 12:28 pm EDT Updated: 28 minutes ago

President Barack Obama responded Thursday to the shooting at a historically black church in Charleston, South Carolina, that left nine dead.

"Any death of this sort is a tragedy, any shooting involving multiple victims is a tragedy," he said. "There is something particularly heartbreaking about death happening at a place in which we seek solace and we seek peace."

"I've had to make statements like this too many times. Communities have had to endure tragedies like this too many times," he continued. "Once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. ... We as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries."

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Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/18/barack-obama-charleston-shooting_n_7613074.html

[onehandle]

1. Cue gun and racism apologists to attack our Democratic President at Democratic Underground. nt

[shenmue]

3. 3.. 2..

[Nuclear Unicorn]

10. Perhaps you could be helpful and link to an example of the racism apologia.

[Hekate]

55. Name Removed has been busy, from what I've heard.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

57. That's not a DUer but trolls from the outside. He's trying to conflate long time RKBA defenders

with racism.

[friendly_iconoclast]

88. Please post those links that I'm *sure* you have directly at hand

[BrotherIvan]

2. Please, Mr. President

DO SOMETHING about it. Use all the weight you are using to pass TPP and push for gun control and police control. The people need you. They are dying.

[daleanime]

6. K&R.....

We need one, not the other.

[newfie11]

9. We don't need TPP

We've been down this road before and look how great Nafta turned out, NOT!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

16. Like what? The President has begun a program to shore up the flagging NICS database and

for that he is to be congratulated. But ultimately he is the administrator of law, not the maker of it.

[BrotherIvan]

32. Like what?

How about going after bad cops like he and his Education Secretary buddy have gone after teachers? Think they can't do anything about union workers outside of federal jurisdiction?? Pure shite.

How about delinking IAB with police departments as a conflict of interest? How about making IAB federal with strict oversight? How about linking state monies to it?

How about pressuring every damn Democrat just like he has on the TPP to vote for gun control and any other progressive policy. How about saying he will veto any and all Republican legislation until we have gun control that the people want? How about being on every fucking tv show on every fucking channel and pushing for it?

Oh right, a minority of paranoid, fearful people are allowed to own lethal weapons in order to terrorize the rest of this country because we all have to bow down to the second half of a fucking sentence written hundreds of years ago but not the first.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

37. Okay, I'm on-board with curbing police brutality but this thread is about the church shooting.

If there's a link I'm missing I apologize but I'm honestly not seeing it.

[BrotherIvan]

44. That's just a start

You don't think this psychopath was emboldened by the legalized murder of black people? You think he didn't revel in the fact that all those racist cops got away with it?

We need to start where we can. The government has more power over public servants than individuals. If we can start there we should.

I could list a million gun control laws that I would like to see including banning ALL private sales and gun shows. Lethal weapons should not be considered tradable property. If you want to waste your money on a gun, you own it and responsible for it (and everything done with it). All liability transfers to you. But if you want to recoup your investment or have it destroyed, it has to go back to state/federal agency.

There are infinite ways to tackle this problem. The real answer is that 2A folks scream and howl and throw themselves into the way of every single one. Fuck that.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

51. Setting aside police reforms for the moment --

Imposing the laws you suggest would take a lot of guns and a police force ruthless enough to enforce them.

So much for police reforms.

[BrotherIvan]

67. No, it wouldn't

It would take political will and consistency of enforcement. The majority of the people of this country want gun control. Believe me, they would support it.

Making it illegal to sell guns privately or at shows will help overnight. Will it ban every illegal private sale? No. Will it put a dent it it? Yes. Whatever it takes.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

70. It's an electoral loser.

[BrotherIvan]

73. So more people have to be slaughtered

Because our politicians are corrupt cowards? No.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

83. The absence of guns does not lead to the absence of violent crime. And mayhem killers

are a completely different type of threat.

[JDPriestly]

85. Excellent suggestions.

Some people just want to talk about problems but not about solutions to problems.

I'm noticing that when it comes to the political divide on this website.

Bernie supporters like the fact that he offers solutions to problems and doesn't just complain.

You are offering solutions. That frightens some people. The Wall Street crowd wants us to talk about problems but not about solutions because as long as we are unhappy about problems and can't see that the solutions invariably require raising their taxes, they control us and have more money.

Enough said.

[LondonReign2]

53. +1000. Words are nice

Got any actions?

[Cha]

107. Keep up.. the President and VP did Action.. it didn't pass in Congress. Not even after Sandy Hook

[truebrit71]

4. Because other advanced countries don't have a population armed to the teeth...

...and fed a steady diet of fear and hatred by right-wing radio and Fux "news"...

[Lifelong Protester]

5. ^^This^^

[newfie11]

7. Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nt

[marions ghost]

13. Right

this is the lethal combination we are afflicted with.

A sick, twisted society.

[BrotherIvan]

34. +1 Exactly

[Mr Dixon]

40. AGREED

Great point

[Maedhros]

97. It's the "diet of fear and hatred" that really does it.

In "Bowling for Columbine" Michael Moore compares Canada to the U.S., and it was surprising to see that Canada has more firearms per capita than does the United States. The big difference was the degree of fear under which each population lives. Canadians very little, Americans cranked to '11'. Subsequently, Canada has very little gun violence in comparison.

[Snobblevitch]

8. Sometimes a fact check is in order.

There was a mass shooting in Norway and I think there were more than 70 deaths at the hands of one person. Of course these mass shootings happen more often in the U.S.

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. There have been mass shootings in other developed countries, yes.

They are exceedingly rare occurrences. There may be one a decade, if that. In the USA? There's one about every two weeks.

[Marrah_G]

14. Not with the same frequency, which is what the President said.

[LanternWaste]

18. And sometimes a relevant contextual check is in order also...

And sometimes a relevant contextual check is in order also...

[magical thyme]

20. We're much bigger than the other countries. January 2, 2015, Paris

Three masked gunmen storm the office of Charlie Hebdo, a satirical weekly magazine, and kill 12 people, including the paper's top editors and cartoonists, as well as two police officers. The provocative magazine is known for publishing charged cartoons that satirized Islamic terrorists and the Prophet Muhammad.

Sept 21, 2013, Nairobi
Shabab militants, who are based in Somalia, attacked an upscale mall, killing nearly 70 people and wounding about 175. The siege lasted for three days, with persistent fighting between government troops and militants. The attack was meticulously planned, and the militants proved to be challenging for the government to dislodge from the Westgate mall.

March 19, 2012, Paris
Mohammed Merah, a French man of Algerian descent, shot and killed a rabbi, two of his children, and another child at a Jewish school. Police believe he had earlier shot and killed three paratroopers. Merah said he was a member of Al Qaeda and that he was seeking revenge for the killing of Palestinian children.

April 7, 2011, Rio de Janiero
A 23-year-old former student returned to his public elementary school in Rio de Janeiro and began firing, killing 12 children and seriously wounding more than a dozen others, before shooting himself in the head. While Brazil has seen gang-related violence in urban areas, this was the worst school shooting the country has ever seen.

March 11, 2009, Winnenden, Germany
Fifteen people were shot and killed at Albertville Technical High School in southwestern Germany by a 17-year-old boy who attended the same school.

Sept 23, 2008, Kauhajok, Finland
A 20-year-old male student shot and killed at least nine students and himself at a vocational college in Kauhajok, 330km (205 miles) north of the capital, Helsinki.

Nov 7, 2007, Tuusula, Finland
An 18-year-old student in southern Finland shot and killed five boys, two girls, and the female principal at Jokela High School. At least 10 others were injured. The gunman shot himself and died from his wounds in the hospital.

Sept 13, 2006, Montreal
Kimveer Gill, 25, opened fire with a semiautomatic weapon at Dawson College. Anastasia De Sousa, 18, died and more than a dozen students and faculty were wounded before Gill killed himself.

April 26, 2002 Erfurt, Germany
13 teachers, two students, and one policeman killed, ten wounded by Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, at the Johann Gutenberg secondary school. Steinhaeuser then killed himself.

Feb 19, 2002, Eching & Freising, Germany
Two killed in Eching by a man at the factory from which he had been fired; he then traveled to Freising and killed the headmaster of the technical school from which he had been expelled. He also wounded another teacher before killing himself.

March 13, 1996, Dunblane, Scotland
16 children and one teacher killed at Dunblane Primary School by Thomas Hamilton, who then killed himself. 10 others wounded in attack.

[cwydro]

36. I saw this after my post.

Sorry.

[gcomeau]

60. The magnitude and frequency of mass shootings in the US...

...is not by the WILDEST IMAGINATION proportional or attributable to it's larger population size.

[randome]

69. You're comparing the rest of the world to the U.S.?

I'm no statistics major but...
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[lancer78]

91. I think his point is

that stuff like this still happens all over the world. Our economic and social problems contribute to more violence then just easier access to guns.

[liberal N proud]

33. How many mass shooting have taken place in Norway? And how many in the US?

How many mass shootings in the US since the 1 in Norway?

[Snobblevitch]

38. To anyone else who chooses to respond to my post,

please read my last semtemce before hitting the reply button, you'll have a chance to edit your reply.

[lancer78]

90. There was a mass murder with knives

in China as well.

[Behind the Aegis]

11. They most certainly do, just not at the alarming frequency they do in this country.

In other countries, they do happen. However, they are the exception, not the rule, as it seems to be in this country.

[magical thyme]

22. our country is much bigger than most of the other countries in question

which are closer in size to one of our states.

[Gore1FL]

64. Geographically.

As examples, France has has 66 million. The UK has 64 Million. Germany has 80 Million. The U.S. is still bigger with 319 million, but our European counterparts are closer to 1/5 the population size rather than 1/50 that the geography seems to imply.

[Behind the Aegis]

105. Even is you combine all of Europe, it still happens there, but not with the frequency here.

Mass shootings happen in a variety of "advanced" nations, but nowhere to the frequency we see in the US.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

110. Then perhaps a look at the per capita murder rate can tell us something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[JonLP24]

113. I had a feeling Uganda would be up there

Fucking Inhofe. There are others in the Senate but they won't reveal their names but Inhofe is pushing that ugly homophobia crap in African countries.

[The2ndWheel]

15. The context of different countries is going to be different

The US has it's own unique history, which isn't going to be the same in other advanced countries. Works the other way with whatever positives the US has won't necessarily be the same in other advanced countries.

It's difficult to compare and contrast various countries, because none of them are really playing on the same field.

[blue neen]

65. The "context" of death is the same no matter what country you're from.

And yes, none of them are really playing on the same field, because the other countries don't have the NRA.

[Stinky The Clown]

17. Hold the rhetoric. It is empty without action

PROPOSE something. Maybe the gun show loophole.

[Cali_Democrat]

23. Remember the proposals shortly after Sandy Hook?

Congress, including many Dems, essentially gave the finger to Obama and Biden.

Their response was Moar Gunz.

[Hekate]

56. ^^^^^This^^^^*

[hack89]

24. The gun show loophole is not linked to any recent mass shootings

Columbine, Sandy Hook, Aurora - all the guns were legally purchased.

[Hoyt]

103. Yeah, but maybe Roof should have had to go through a background check to accept

his dad's gift. Gun fanciers object to background checks for gifts, inherited gunz, etc. Too much trouble for self-styled law-abiding fun owners.

Probably wouldn't make much difference in this case because the background checks aren't tough enough, gun fanciers are opposed to that.

[hack89]

104. I certainly support it. UBCs are the law in my state. Nt

[PufPuf23]

19. What POTUS Obama said.

What is the solution though?

There is way too much toxic in the USA.

[Cali_Democrat]

21. Maybe because we aren't all that advanced, Mr. President. nt

[Jefferson23]

25. Our country has a gun culture and it has increased through the availability of guns and through

the rhetoric of fear used by the NRA...the front for arms manufacturing.

It has to scare people more than just me when you read of todays events, but also the
ones where a Mom has a tragic death b/c she felt she needed to take her loaded
hand gun in her purse to Walmart accompanied by her kids..to buy fucking toilet paper.

They need their gun to take to Starbucks...RATIONAL people do not think like that.

We have a lot to change.

[Maedhros]

98. To many Americans, a gun is a genuine fetish.

Not in a sexual context, but in the sense that they are inanimate objects imbued with spiritual power. To these people their gun is a physical manifestation of their freedom and well-being. Just like some Catholics wear St. Christopher necklaces for spiritual protection, many gun owners must carry their weapons for the same reason.

[Jefferson23]

99. Agreed and the NRA only exacerbates it over and over. I haven't looked to see if they

have made any statement...they make me ill.

[Kingofalldems]

26. Just saw a Fox news bimbette/spokesmodel/newscaster reporting

with the old Fox meme 'some people are saying' that if there was another armed person in the church the whole thing might not have happened.

[Matrosov]

27. But other countries are a bunch of dirty commie socialists

[Thinkingabout]

28. Pointing out other tragedies in other countries does not excuse the lack of response of Congress to

take action when more than 50% of the people wants control. Placing background checks would be a good starting point. There is a time and place to act, we are past time, this is a no brainer.

[Mr Dixon]

41. Agreed

Thank you

[matt819]

29. We're a rich country, not an advanced one - anymore

And when I say rich, that's in gross GDP terms, not individually (certainly not me).

You know, though, we're no longer all that advanced. Take a look at all those international lists. We're nowhere near the top on the lists that matter, including quality of life, health care quality and availability, infant and mother mortality, education, employment, housing and health costs, and more.

One day I'd like to hear a president tell the truth in the SOTU. The state of the union is unsound.

[KamaAina]

30. Strike "other"

The fact that it happens here means we are not as advanced as we think we are.

[lpbk2713]

31. You don't purchase firearms with a wink and a nod in most other countries.

Yard sales for instance ...

[DustyJoe]

39. This one was armed by a birthday present not a purchase

But, It was an obvious straw purchase by the father for his son that could not have legally purchased a handgun if he answered the firearms questionairre honestly about his drug use and drug arrests. This father besides moron of the year belongs in a cell besides his son.

[lpbk2713]

47. My comment was aligned with what Obama said.

And was intended as a reference to the relative ease in acquiring firearms in the USA.

Not so much a reference to this latest mass murderer. Although I see your point.

[Thinkingabout]

49. In this case the parent has aided this person in obtaining a weapon, not smart.

[gcomeau]

61. Which is a regular occurrence in the US, because of the gun laws and culture here. -eom

[cwydro]

35. Except for Norway.

Just sayin.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

89. And Dunblane, Scotland

Also just sayin.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

94. Mass shooting deaths in the UK where there is no 'gun culture'.

and guns are illegal.

1996 Dunblane, Scotland - 18 shot dead

1987 Hungerford, England - 16 shot dead

2010 Cumbria, England - 12 shot dead

[Nye Bevan]

96. Interesting that you had to go back almost 20 years for that. (nt)

[Boudica the Lyoness]

108. Please keep in mind guns are banned in the UK

AND there never was a gun culture there to begin with.

1996 Dunblane, Scotland - 18 shot dead

1987 Hungerford, England - 16 shot dead

2010 Cumbria, England - 12 shot dead

Glad you found it interesting though.

[davidn3600]

42. I guess he forgot about Charlie Hebdo

[randome]

50. Charlie Hebdo was not a random attack, however.

And the frequency with which these killings occur in the U.S. is not seen in other countries. Perhaps he could have chosen words more along that line.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[philosslayer]

52. I don't believe this was a random attack either

n/t

[randome]

66. The victims were random. The Charlie Hebdo victims were not chosen for their race...

...but for their perceived 'attack' on the killers. Slightly different, perhaps, but different.

It would be hard to say "any African-American in sight" is the same as "any employee of Charlie Hebdo".
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Bluenorthwest]

72. And yet the Hebdo offices were just one of the crime scenes and the other sure seemed to be

chosen for being Jewish as it was a Kosher market.

[randome]

80. The kosher market people were hostages and not killed until the police stormed it.

And they did kill a police officer for no reason. I mean you're right in that these other victims had nothing to do with Charlie Hebdo but they were still related to the entire operation of vengeance.

It's still not the same, IMO, when a lone individual with easy access to firearms walks into a public place and starts picking off people randomly.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[bonniebgood]

43. We need to know EVERYTHING about this creep and his Family

their association, their politics, their religion, ALL Fox news and racist hate radio should be pulled from the airways. They promote this racist hatred. this 21 year old with so much hatred had to come from tv, radio, associations racist hatred talk for all his life. Listen to what donald trump racist hatred toward Mexicans on his opening president speech? calling them rapist and murders coming to this country.

[Lurker Deluxe]

46. Hell YEA!!

Let's burn some books too ...


And that guy, over there, he just don't look right ... let's lock his ass up

[blue neen]

63. Okay.

What do you think drove this creep to commit this racially motivated crime?

[heaven05]

45. why don't they address

the racist hate behind this. Politics truly makes them sell their souls. Afraid that Hillary might get tainted by his words, I guess.

[valerief]

75. The elites make money from racism. It keeps us stupid and diverted. nt

[heaven05]

77. well

not all of us...

[valerief]

78. Right. Thankfully not all of us.

[randys1]

79. Everytime Obama doesnt say what I want him to say as in calling out all the racists in BOTH parties

I remind myself what would happen if he did.

His wife was beaten over the head repeteadly for suggesting the idea that drinking water is healthy.

Imagine what would happen if he told the truth about the rabidly, sick, demented and twisted teaparty!

[heaven05]

81. well, he is a 'lame duck'

I say go for it...but I know in polite society, a POTUS can't do that.

[City Lights]

48. Maybe we're not so "advanced" after all. nt

[SheilaT]

54. Yes, but gun homicides are decreasing!

That's the pushback I get every time I challenge our idiotic guns in the gun forum. As if it somehow is okay that we have so many gun deaths.

I am in favor of outright confiscation, an oddly unpopular stand.

[HassleCat]

58. Yes and no

Most other advanced nations have a different sense of themselves, a different way of looking at "who we are." They don't have the death penalty. Some of them allow almost universal firearm ownership, but restrict the type of guns citizens may have. Some of them don't allow most citizens to own handguns or assault rifles. It's not just a question of easy access to firearms. For such an advanced nation, we are pretty violent. Of course, the Charleston incident was probably motivated by racism, and that plays out much differently in other countries. And we have to consider people like Anders Brevik, the guy who gunned down a bunch of his fellow Norwegians, and was evidently motivated by some sort of racism or xenophobia. So we're not the only advanced nation with this problem, although the president is basically correct, since it happens here so often.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

59. Other advanced countries don't allow their Right Wing to spout hate and fear 24/7.

[gordianot]

68. It is the hate veiled threats harassment.

The old admonishment about people killing people not guns has an element of truth. In this case there are just too many people that cannot be trusted with firearms.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

76. This nation has been sheltering the guilty for too long....

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9flsTlYmC60/U5ZlTAjEmjI/AAAAAAAAA_4/5_ANmGj8Q-w/s1600/the+racist+right+agitators.png

[lancer78]

92. This!

People in this country have been so inundated of fear of the "other".

[gcomeau]

62. Saw this thread...

...and was going to say "Cue people pointing at rare and isolated instances of mass shootings outside the US in irrelevant nitpicking in 3...2...1..."

But like 5 people already did it, so I'm too late.

[gordianot]

71. Would not be surprised by an uptick in such incidents.

Someone has to go a few better.

[valerief]

74. We're not an advanced country. We have Creationism museums with exhibits showing

children co-existing with dinosaurs. We're a nation of morons. We don't even have news. We have infotainment.

[MisterP]

82. corpocracy can block anything that 70-90% of Americans want--and, more vitally, need

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberum_veto

[FiveGoodMen]

84. He could have left out the word 'other'

[ImaPolitico]

86. Something has been left out...

…."with that frequency." Makes a world of difference.
FYI….So many commenters on Yahoo website have it in for the president (what's new) saying he is dividing our country by speaking about blacks only. They are saying "Why doesn't he say something about the white people when a tragedy happens." What! Where in the world did commenters get that from….speaking about Yahoo website.

[humbled_opinion]

87. Some nut job...

at my work just told me that maybe if the church had not been a gun free zone someone carrying could have taken care of the shooter before he killed as many as he did.....WHAT?

[Blue_Tires]

93. Sadly, I read a Washington journalist say on twitter that today was

Obama's 14th(!) time he's had to publicly address an active shooter

[Skittles]

95. in America we kiss paranoid gun humper ass

it is PATHETIC

[Snow Leopard]

100. Je suis Charlie?

I think France is civilized just to name a recent example. We are not that exceptional Mr President

[wyldwolf]

101. Is this a 'cheap shot' against Sanders? I keep seeing advocating gun control is an attempt ...

... to score political points.

(puts on tin foil hat.) Is Obama signaling he doesn't support Sanders??? How dare he!!

[Bonobo]

111. Obama has not been impressive on gun control. nt

[LiberalElite]

102. lately for some reason I don't believe we're all that advanced nt

[Cha]

106. ..

[lovemydog]

109. +1

[JonLP24]

112. I'd quibble over advanced countries

but it does happen. The less advanced countries there are good odds our weapons were sold to the killers (particularly in government killer the people situations).