General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCan Cloud Seeding Help Save California?
(Not conspiracy-these are facts from wikipedia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding
Cloud seeding is no longer considered a fringe science, and is considered a mainstream tool to improve rain precipitation and snow. New technology and research have produced reliable results that make cloud seeding a dependable and affordable water-supply practice for many regions.
The largest cloud seeding system in the world is that of the People's Republic of China, which believes that it increases the amount of rain over several increasingly arid regions, including its capital city, Beijing, by firing silver iodide rockets into the sky where rain is desired. There is even political strife caused by neighboring regions that accuse each other of "stealing rain" using cloud seeding.
In February 2009, China also blasted iodide sticks over Beijing to artificially induce snowfall after four months of drought, and blasted iodide sticks over other areas of northern China to increase snowfall. The snowfall in Beijing lasted for approximately three days and led to the closure of 12 main roads around Beijing.[40] At the end of October 2009 Beijing claimed it had its earliest snowfall since 1987 due to cloud seeding.
In the United States, cloud seeding is used to increase precipitation in areas experiencing drought, to reduce the size of hailstones that form in thunderstorms, and to reduce the amount of fog in and around airports. In the summer of 1948, the usually humid city of Alexandria, Louisiana, under Mayor Carl B. Close, seeded a cloud with dry ice at the municipal airport during a drought; quickly .85 inches of rainfall occurred.[50]
Cloud seeding is occasionally used by major ski resorts to induce snowfall. Eleven western states and one Canadian province (Alberta) have ongoing weather modification operational programs [1]. In January 2006, an $8.8 million cloud seeding project began in Wyoming to examine the effects of cloud seeding on snowfall over Wyoming's Medicine Bow, Sierra Madre, and Wind River mountain ranges.[51]
A number of commercial companies offer weather modification services centered on cloud seeding.
The U.S. signed an international treaty in 1978 banning the use of weather modification for hostile purposes
It has been used by US military like in Vietnam:
Operation Popeye's goal was to increase rainfall in carefully selected areas to deny the Vietnamese enemy, namely military supply trucks, the use of roads by:[6]
Softening road surfaces
Causing landslides along roadways
Washing out river crossings
Maintain saturated soil conditions beyond the normal time span.
It has been used by British military:
The military were controlling the weather for several reasons, as detailed in the minutes of an Air Ministry meeting held on 3 November 1953.[1] They included:
"bogging down enemy movement";
"incrementing the water flow in rivers and streams to hinder or stop enemy crossings";
clearing fog from airfields.
which just might have resulted in major flooding:
On 16 August 1952 a severe flood occurred in the town of Lynmouth in north Devon. Nine inches (229 millimetres) of rain fell within twenty-four hours:[2] "Ninety million tonnes of water swept down the narrow valley into Lynmouth" and the East Lyn River rose rapidly and burst its banks.[3] Thirty-five people died and many buildings and bridges were seriously damaged. According to the BBC, "North Devon experienced 250 times the normal August rainfall in 1952."[3] (sounds like Texas?)
A conspiracy theory has circulated that the flood was caused by secret cloud seeding experiments conducted by the Royal Air Force.
Why isn't cloud seeding being used in California?
And although this person was probably joking.....the question should be asked....
Is Texas cloud seeding, quite possible stealing rain from California as is happening in China?
I think somehow in Texas we managed to steal the water from California
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026630164
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]
randome
(34,845 posts)Eeee is right!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Brother Buzz
(36,444 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)We've got lots of fog.
Brother Buzz
(36,444 posts)I grew up in a fog belt and observed it always rained under the redwood trees on foggy days, while the grasslands just got damp.
J_J_
(1,213 posts)nt
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Delays 'R Us whenever the fog rolls in.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)I have read there is no such thing as spraying chemicals from airplanes, in fact it is verboten on DU to even suggest such a thing. Even tho it happens, we're not allowed to say so. So there.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Just not the fact you're implying.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)That in each big plane there are at least 4 fuel tanks. On take off the tanks with the straight fuel are used for maximum power. Once at cruising speed, the stuff in the tanks with the cloud seeding chemicals are blended into the jet engines. Crazy stuff!!
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Do educate us please.
Brother Buzz
(36,444 posts)Visible chemtrail experiments ceased over the United States in 2001. Anyone telling you they see chemtrails today is blowing smoke up your ass.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Guy sitting next to me said the clouds coming out of some of the planes was chemicals!! What kind of crazy is that? Here it is, 2015, and like you say blowing smoke.
musiclawyer
(2,335 posts)Because my neighbors and I have watched four planes flying in formation over the Central Sierras in CA dragging trails that did not dissipate for hours. It has happened multiple times.
And they are not commercial planes or government jets with the typical exhaust trail
Anyone with lying eyes looking up and paying attention over northern CA will confirm.
If you believe there are no chemtrails (that are not simple commercial or military jet airplane exhaust ) then prove it. Until then, people with good eyes and no reason to lie will tell you they exist and occur routinely.
I don't know what their purpose is. Cloud seeding? Other experiments by government or private sector? Who knows. But anyone who asserts chemtrails do not exist are as foolish as those paranoid fringe who say the government or Monsanto is creating drought in CA on purpose ..
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Why do you hate science?
http://contrailscience.com
Brother Buzz
(36,444 posts)and took hours to cover the ENTIRE sky
And Yes, this was in Northern California, and the trails didn't dissipate but just expanded to blend with the other bands laid out hours before. Toward the end, the entire sky would be grey with one blue band of virgin sky remaining, then a pencil mark trail started growing down the middle (the plane was to high to see). Withing the hour, the entire sky was grey but you still could make out faint lines separating the trails if you studied them. In my unscientific estimate, perhaps 5% of the sunlight had been blocked. These events were rather extraordinary to witness and haven't been repeated since 2001.
Note: The trails were laid out east to west, true, with ONE peculiar band running NW to SE, and the were evenly spaced, maybe a dozen or fifteen bands from the southern to the northern horizon.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)large enough to produce rain. Seeding wispy clouds will more likely just make them dissipate with little to no precipitation.
Hekate
(90,714 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)NV Whino
(20,886 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Weather in the Northern Hemisphere generally moves west to east, so the systems affecting Texas and Oklahoma have already bypassed us. And the most recent one, Bill, came out of the Gulf.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)There's been a lack of storm systems, blocked by the Pacific High (Ridge), so there aren't "rain" clouds to seed.
Furthermore, California's water shortage is related to the lack of snowpack, cause by clouds, but also warmer weather in the mountains.
Cloud seeding not only doesn't work if there aren't clouds to work with, cloud seeding also can't make it cold enough to snow.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)greytdemocrat
(3,299 posts)still_one
(92,219 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)rather than staying on the Sierra Nevada mountains throughout the year.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Might work the other way round, but No. I really don't think so.
California water, clouds, rain mostly come from the West, from the Pacific Ocean.
Texas would have a hard time stealing water from us.
I'm sure this is well meant???? But, no. We in California do not suspect Texas of stealing water from us. Texas would have to be able to change its geography if it wanted to do that. I know Texans are amazing, but I don't think they can change geography.
J_J_
(1,213 posts)Did anyone even care enough to really read about it?
I thought DUers believed in science.
I guess if the far left liberal media won't report on it, it just doesn't matter.
Whatever.
I moved from California years ago, got plenty of water now.
Enjoy your drought.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)The moisture taken out by cloud seeded rains would come at the expense of rains further east, such as Iowa Corn Fields. Perhaps we should rethink allowing so many people to live in a desert. Or atleast keep there water use inline with what the native climate could support.
karadax
(284 posts)I've read many articles about low tech solutions to extract water from the air. One cycled air down into the ground to create condensation. The early version of that generated about a liter a day. Another was a giant device shaped like a vase that extracted water from the air. The shape of the device coupled with the change in temperature allowed it to extract around 40 to 50 liters a day. All you have to do is have some humidity.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)By doing so, our water bill has dramatically dropped.
IcyPeas
(21,889 posts)couldn't help but think of this great song and video:
The song is about the very close relationship between psychologist and philosopher Wilhelm Reich and his young son, Peter, told from the point of view of the mature Peter. It describes the boy's memories of his life with Reich on their family farm, called Orgonon where the two spent time "cloudbusting", a rain-making process which involved pointing at the sky a machine designed and built by Reich, called a cloudbuster. The lyric further describes Wilhelm Reich's abrupt arrest and imprisonment, the pain of loss the young Peter felt, and his helplessness at being unable to protect his father. The song was inspired by Peter Reich's 1973 memoir, A Book of Dreams, which Bush read and found deeply moving.