Caitlyn Jenner: New Identity Creates Problems at the Golf Course

[KamaAina]

http://www.tmz.com/2015/06/02/caitlyn-jenner-golf-course-sherwood/

Caitlyn Jenner has some tricky day-to-day changes in store, including where she eats, drinks and changes clothes ... at the country club which has become her home away from home.

Bruce Jenner became a member of Sherwood Country Club in Thousand Oaks, CA 15 years ago. He golfed there almost every day and established close relationships with his golfing buddies. It's a very exclusive, ritzy club with an initiation fee ranging between $150,000 and $300,000.

But now that Bruce is Caitlyn, the rules partially segregate her from the male members.

Our Sherwood sources say the board will enforce the rules, which means the camaraderie Bruce shared with the other members will be impeded now that she's Caitlyn.

Or they could just change the antiquated rules.

[liberal N proud]

1. Playing the ladies tees provides a huge advantage

[KamaAina]

2. So she transitioned in order to shave a few strokes off her game?

[yellowcanine]

4. Actually in casual play anyone can play the ladies' tees.

All the tee markers do is indicate the yardage. If it is a tournament, all the players will have to use the tee markers which are specified by the rules of that particular tournament. If it is casual play, then it is whatever tee markers your playing companions agree to.

This isn't about tee markers. It is about who has access to the men's locker room.

[hlthe2b]

6. Bruce was a very accomplished golfer. Caitlin is hardly going to reep positive advantages

Just the opposite, in fact. Bruce was a esteemed member. Caitlin, on the other hand will be, as most women, facing the abusive nature of second class status...

Your comment so misses the point, it leaves me totally dismayed.

[goldent]

92. I'm guessing it was a joke :)

[Ligyron]

50. beat me to it, lol! nt

[underpants]

3. Saw Bruce on The Golf Channel playing with some other celebrities

2 years ago I think. Can't remember who the other celebs were. Bruce trounced them in driving competition and closest to the pin on a par 3 but he was so slow and tedious that the other players were loudly groaning and making fun of him.


On edit it was Michael Phelps, Sugar Ray Leonard, Mike Eruzione (1980 hockey team). He beat these fellow Olympians in every single event.

[seaglass]

5. This was the key part to me...

"But we're also told the board is open to an appeal by Caitlyn herself. She can attempt to make a case that she can keep the same privileges she had when she was Bruce".

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2015/06/02/caitlyn-jenner-golf-course-sherwood/#ixzz3c1S5KCZb

Will she advocate for women to have access to the same facilities the men do? Or will she asked to be grandfathered in with her previous male privilege so she can socialize with her old golf buddies?

This could be interesting.

[hlthe2b]

7. Exactly....

[mercuryblues]

24. I'm guessing

the latter.

[valerief]

53. Hmm, well, she's a Republican, so that would lean more to her accepting being grandfathered in.

Equal access is more Democratic.

[DawgHouse]

73. She will ask to be grandfathered in, I'm sure.

[NightWatcher]

8. Having a hard time rustling up a shit to give about a rw'er having trouble at the country club

[KamaAina]

10. Good gravy, she is a repuke!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlyn_Jenner#Personal_life

Jenner is a professed Christian, leans politically conservative, and is a Republican.

One wonders how her Xtian repuke friends are dealing with this.

[Betty Karlson]

47. Pretty fine

In private, most rich christian republicans like to demonstrate good manners and make someone welcome, even if they have made life choices that most others never had to make. Rabid homophobia is the exception, not the rule.

Compare this to a 2003 reunion of George W. Bush's old classmates. One of them had declared herself to be a woman since the last time she had met the War Criminal.

Woman: "Hi, I'm femalename, but you may remember me as malename"
War Criminal: "Well, you came back as yourself."

------

Rich republican christians are moderate to the extend that they accept in private what they condemn in public. So as long as you know them privately, there is always a chance to appeal to their willingness to bend the rules. Which is what they pretty openly invited Jenner to do.

[Voice for Peace]

61. that's an interesting anecdote, is it true?

I don't quite get the contrast you're making, but it struck me
as a good response, goofy as it may have been. "You came
back as yourself" says you were ALWAYS yourself, male or
female. At least that's how I read it.

[Betty Karlson]

71. That was my point: there isn't much of a contrast

(except W. being more criminal than the average member of a golf club)

It's half-true. I have looked up the reference (page 300 of Kelley's monography on the Bushes "The Family&quot and the following is the exact account one of the attendees gave:

"You may remember me as Peter when we left Yale"

"Now you have come back as yourself"

[Jesus Malverde]

48. Ever heard of log cabin republicans?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Log_Cabin_Republicans

The LGBT community is as diverse as any other. Assuming otherwise is somewhat stereotypical and uniformed.

[cali]

9. gee, what a terrible problem to have. forgive me if I don't give a shit

about her. I have nothing but contempt for the entire Kardashian crew.

[clarice]

26. What you said. nt

[butterfly77]

79. Yes,I agree..

I don't give about him. When is he going to trial for killing that woman?

[RufusTFirefly]

126. +1 I hate when celebrity gossip takes on the sanctimonious mask of social import

"But Michael Jackson's dangling a baby off a balcony brings up a much larger issue of child abuse!"
"The latest antics from Britney Spears highlight the destructive toll of stardom!"
"The obsession with Jennifer Lopez's derrière is really about the question of body image!"

People are willing to spin all sorts of elaborate, self-righteous rationalizations for what is essentially garden variety rubbernecking. And at what cost? I expect that 8 out of 10 people can identify Kim Kardashian and only one out of 10 can identify Elena Kagan.

[KamaAina]

12. So it's not possible to care about child poverty and trans issues at the same time?

[Romeo.lima333]

13. it's not a trans issue it's a golf-club policy issue

regarding rules for men and rules for women

[KamaAina]

14. It is an issue that Caitlyn is facing

as a transwoman.

[Romeo.lima333]

22. and as a transwoman she's up against golf club house rules

[Travis_0004]

62. Not really

She no longer identifies as a male, and she is no longer allowed in the male locker room.

I fail to see a problem

[Romeo.lima333]

63. i didnt either my response was to the poster that thought there was a problem

[ann---]

51. So, who really

cares about this? His seeking of the spotlight is becoming
more nauseating after each article headline.

[LanternWaste]

21. You then believe the one issue specifically denies the concurrency of both issues?

You then believe the one issue specifically denies the concurrency of both issues?

Seems as though that's rather simplistic thinking... but then again, bumper-sticker philosophies do seem to be the deepest many people allow themselves.

[Romeo.lima333]

23. i believe that any woman who walked into that club would face the same issues

[LanternWaste]

19. A lot of people are unable to focus on more than one concern at a time... you imply you're one of th

A lot of people are unable to focus on more than one concern at a time... you allow the impression you're one of them.

I'll make a studious point to keep any future responses to you both simplistic and elementary so as not to over-tax your though processes. I'll ask others to do the same.

[NuclearDem]

20. Oh Jesus fuck you've got to be kidding me.

[Initech]

15. First world problems. Actually more upper 1% problems.

[lonestarnot]

16. Welp does she know she is going to make less money now too?

[KamaAina]

17. Good one!

[Ms. Toad]

18. And thus the reality of living in a female body sets in -

and with it, perhaps a social and political awakening.

[Zorra]

32. I wonder. She's a wealthy republican, so hope for really "getting it", is dim.

After a lifetime of living with white male privilege, much of that lifetime as a wealthy celebrity republican with white male privilege, being exposed to the full reality of being a woman in this patriarchal society may not ever manifest to any productive, self-enlightening degree for her.

[Ms. Toad]

41. I don't know.

From friends who have been through it - the contrast is much more significant than they expected. I can hope, anyway.

[RobinA]

70. My Bet Is

Caitlyn will always enjoy a white male advantage. Really, would she have been on the cover of Vanity Fair if she weren't a guy? She's not good enough looking to qualify for coverhood using female standards.

[Jamastiene]

25. Your comment at the end is perfect.

I was going to mention that, but you covered the obvious solution that they won't use, already.

[AngryAmish]

27. So she is complaining about not being in the men's locker room?

You hang out in the locker room to avoid women. Sure you have to put up with the old guys walking around naked but for a few moments of quiet to have a burger and beer, pure gold.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

28. I wonder if that was OJ's club?

Dangerous place, between Cait's driving and OJ looking for the real killers.

[madinmaryland]

39. Was Bruce Jenner the killer OJ was looking for

[calimary]

101. That's the Riviera Country Club in the elegant Pacific Palisades. Where the reagans lived before

they went to Sacramento. That was OJ's country club. And they asked him to leave after what happened. Sherwood Country Club - I wonder if that's Lake Sherwood-related? Out in the hills of Thousand Oaks where the lawns are large and green and well-manicured, and there are those white low-level horse fences everywhere. I used to know some people who lived there. Nice spreads out there, around this pretty lake where they had 4th of July parties every year.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. The problems of the downtrodden wealthy are heartbreaking.

[NuclearDem]

40. Because if there's one group that has it easy, it's transwomen.

[cali]

65. wealth insulates tremendously.

If you haven't lived in that rarified world, it may be difficult to understand just how extensively it does insulate. And celebrity adds to that.

[NuclearDem]

67. Oh, don't worry, some are already trying their damnedest to puncture that insulation.

[treestar]

110. She is going to learn about discrimination against women

Wealthy or not.

[Travis_0004]

30. If Caitlyn Jenner is a woman she should not be allowed on the mens locker room.

Seems like an easy issue to me.

If she wants to hang out with male members, she can not do it in the locker room anymore.

[Nye Bevan]

31. Surely having a single locker room for all genders would solve this problem?

Perhaps the very concepts of "male locker room" and "female locker room" are cisgenderist, transphobic, and antiquated.

[pnwmom]

33. Not unless there is a way for all members to be able to dress and toilet in private. n/t

[Chan790]

85. One of the things that most struck me about our Europe trip in HS...

was that *everywhere* seemed to have unisex bathrooms. If I wanted to make in a women-free environment...I had to hold it until I got to the hotel. Not so many unisex showers...but a few unisex changing rooms at pools and the such.

At the time...I was scandalized. Now...I just don't care who I share a bathroom with, regardless of gender, sex or orientation.

[Snow Leopard]

37. you are more than

welcome to open your own golf course and do just that too.

[MADem]

55. They just need to put the locker room grill in an equally accessible place. nt

[Romulox]

34. *THIS* is "the social" we have all been warned about. nt

[rusty fender]

35. Boohoohoo

I'm crying for this shithead

He's a a media whore who doesn't deserve the time of day.

[KamaAina]

36. She certainly is.

[butterfly77]

80. Yes..

He certainly is.

[NuclearDem]

81. I love these threads. They're like bigot flypaper.

[butterfly77]

82. I wonder who the bigot is?

Some people can't handle the truth.

[KamaAina]

83. Why don't you look here?

[NuclearDem]

88. Wow. Not even pretending anymore, are you?

[NuclearDem]

84. Couldn't be the ones deliberately using the wrong pronoun for a transwoman.

Obviously.

[NuclearDem]

90. She has been a woman all her life.

But please, keep going.

[Major Nikon]

94. That's not going to happen in this thread at least

On Wed Jun 10, 2015, 06:04 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Catilyn/bruce jenner..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6812767

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Utter transphobic nonsense.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jun 10, 2015, 06:08 PM, and the Jury voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Ignorance can be cured with information, not censorship. Explain where the poster is wrong, lots of people have been educated but not by silencing them.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: butterfly77 doesn't list a sex in s/he DU profile. Can't decide what butterfly77 is, but rips into Ms Jenner. So much compassion for a kindred spirit!
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Hatred of Gay people and Transgender people is unacceptable at DU.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

[NuclearDem]

95. Good. This is really getting old.

[Rex]

97. Sadly the other post just slipped by 3-4.

On Wed Jun 10, 2015, 11:11 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Yes..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6812612

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Deliberate transphobic use of the wrong pronoun.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jun 10, 2015, 11:27 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Wow...I agree with another poster, not even trying to hide it anymore.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: huh?
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with the alerter. Voting to hide.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't know if it is deliberate or not, so I will give the poster the benefit of the doubt. Besides. I think the post calling Jenner a media whore is worse.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

I am juror #1.

[gollygee]

100. I voted to hide

and #7 should have read the rest of the subthread.

[uppityperson]

117. Thank you EarlG.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=175527&sub=trans

[Rex]

120. Thanks for the update uppityperson!

Some things should be unacceptable on this site and that was one of them! Thank you EarlG!

[MADem]

121. DAYUM...under the radar for a decade!!! nt

[Zorra]

125. How did that RW bigot get 17,000 posts and last 10 years on DU?

The bar is waaaay too low....

[SidDithers]

133. Don't go away angry...nt

Sid

[NuclearDem]

38. *she

But you knew that.

As a side note, I'm really hungry for some pizza right about now.

[rusty fender]

42. Tombstoned, really?

You want me tombstoned for hurting the feelings of a Republican POS media whore? That's really f'ed up, man.

[NuclearDem]

43. Nope, the transphobia is more than reason enough, I think.

[rusty fender]

44. You think that you are a hero of

the transgendered community because you call a Repug media whore "she." I know an actual transgendered person and I would never refer to him by the wrong pronoun; I do, however, choose to call a Repug celebrity media whore anything I want to call him.

[NuclearDem]

45. So, Caitlyn Jenner is not an actual transgender person.

Dude, you're not doing much to dispel the impression of transphobia.

I'm not surprised you went with "I have *insert minority here* friends."

[rusty fender]

46. LOL!

I guess that means that Jenner is your personal friend. "The lady doth protest too much methinks".

[NuclearDem]

49. Filed under wrong side of history...

[rusty fender]

72. Whatever...

Genius

[NuclearDem]

74. Yeah, shitting all over one of the most visible transgender figures in history

and deliberately using the wrong pronoun because she's a Republican, all while playing the "I have x minority friends."

Yeah, wrong side of history.

[Humanist_Activist]

98. Caitlyn may be a Repub, that's no excuse for using the wrong pronoun on purpose. n/t

[uppityperson]

118. Call her a republic media whore, but continuing to use wrong pronoun and claim is not "actual"

transgendered has the ring of transphobia.

[rusty fender]

122. According to you,

I'm using the wrong pronoun to refer to a celebrity media-whore, on an internet message board, and that makes me a villain!

At least I vote Democratic, but your new hero, Caitlyn Jenner, does not. Think about that the next time you go all apeshit crazy on a fellow DUer over their use of the wrong prounoun.

[uppityperson]

123. Not my hero at all. As I said, call them celebrity whore, but continued refusal to use someone's

proper gender when they are transgendered shows a larger problem. Claims they are not "actual" transgendered has the ring of transphobia.

Yes, posting bigotry like claiming she is not "actual" transgendered and is "he" does make you wrong.

I do not support her, but also do not support bigotry.

[NuclearDem]

124. Dear God, just stop!

Did it ever occur to you that if this many people are telling you you're wrong, you just might be wrong?

[uppityperson]

132. I was wondering if this was the reason. Thank you.

[MADem]

52. She just might become politically enlightened as a result of her transition. nt

[valerief]

54. She's 65. That's doubtful. If she's not enlightened by now, she'll never be. nt

[MADem]

56. Life does not end at 65. I know people who have changed their attitudes

as late as their eighties.

It's never too late to come to one's senses.

[riqster]

58. My mother was past 70 when she ditched the GOP.

People can and do evolve throughout their lifetimes.

[MADem]

68. I have a neighbor like that too. nt

[valerief]

60. Anyone living as privileged as she has won't change. She's Republican!

Will Dubya change?

[MADem]

66. If Dubya felt a need to transition, he very well might.

Last edited Wed Jun 10, 2015, 11:57 AM - Edit history (1)

I doubt think ANYONE would have pegged that old warmonger for an amateur painter ... not in a million years!

People have sides to themselves they don't always show. Some good, some not so much.

I know a public figure who is beloved as a wonderful, stand up guy who has been deceiving his spouse for four decades. I am a bit disgusted by the guy but I don't see any point in outing him for his infidelity. Of course...If he advocated a "Death for cheaters" law I'd sing like a canary, and so would his staff.

[treestar]

111. She's undergone a major change

People can learn at 65, especially undergoing a major change like that.

[valerief]

112. Not Republicans. nt

[ProfessorGAC]

57. Well, There's A Wish And A Prayer

I have my doubts, though. Still part of the jockocracy where everyone believes they are SOLELY responsible for all the good things that ever happened to them, isn't she? The gender switch doesn't change the fundamentals of one's world view, i would think. Maybe some details, but not the core philosophy.

[MADem]

64. Even though she is famous, people will react to her differently.

She is going to get an awakening...and it may be a rude one on occasion.

When she feels the cold shoulder--and she will, most likely--it may activate a core of empathy and understanding and change her worldview.

[ProfessorGAC]

75. I Hope You're Right

But, i will pass on holding my breath.

Have a good day.

[valerief]

113. She's Republican. And stated she was conservative. No way.

She lives in the rich people bubble. She can't see beyond it.

[MADem]

115. So was David Brock.

I do think that insisting that people will NEVER change, even when their circumstances or perceptions change, is a rather illiberal assertion.

People can and do change...Linc Chaffee did, too. And he came from a long line of Republicans.

[valerief]

116. Brock switched in the 90s (after the Contract On America Congress)

and Chafee's a politician (doesn't count). Anyone who's been middle-aged in the 21st century and has stayed a Republican and isn't a pol won't leave that bubble. It's too comfortable.

[MADem]

119. Who made these little rules you are inventing?

If Jenner transitioned in the nineties, that would make a difference?

If she were a politician that would be salient?

She's already felt the bubble exclusion with this little locker room grill business.

It's early days, yet. More to come, I think.

[Voice for Peace]

59. Lindsay Graham may have his eye on Caitlin

for first lady.

[KamaAina]

69. Thread win!

[edbermac]

76. Jury results.

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
On Wed Jun 10, 2015, 03:41 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Lindsay Graham may have his eye on Caitlin
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6809973

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

I am getting a bad vibe from this comment, as if all suspected-closeted men are attracted to transgender women, or that Jenner is suddenly going to start preferring men (she's not). At a minimum it demonstrates an astounding ignorance of transgender realities (e.g. sexual preference does not change). No one here likes Graham but the comment is a cheap shot at him too, if he were a liberal Democrat no one would say this about him as he has never been known to have any particular preference. The whole post sounds snarky if not outright transphobic. No excuse to insult the DU LGBT community just to get a cheap shot dig in at a Republican.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Jun 10, 2015, 03:52 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I think the alerter is reading too much into an admittedly lame joke. Maybe bring it up to the poster.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is a kinda crude remark, but IMO it doesn't reach" disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate as of yet."
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: explain this in a post
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: What a stupid alert!

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Voice for Peace]

107. gosh, thanks! I think that's my first alert, but here is why I even posted that remark

if anybody cares..

I was reading an article earlier about Lindsay Graham complimenting her,
Caitlin, saying she was very welcome in the Republican party; shortly
thereafter I learned he is single, which for some reason I never knew; and
that in his run for White House he recently suggested he might have a
"rotating first lady." My post wasn't an attempt at a joke, as a matter of
fact. I found the connection kind of sweet. I thank you for the benefit of
the doubt; jumping to conclude the worst is never good exercise.

[erpowers]

77. She Should Not Appeal for Herself

It would be wrong for her to appeal solely for herself. If she wants to be a woman than she should live under the rules that women have to live under. If she appeals she should do so for the right of all women to treated in the way Caitlyn wants to be treated. If she appeals for herself only it makes her look bad. It makes it seem like she wants to be a woman, but get the benefits of being a man.

[AngryAmish]

86. What she wants to do is to be able to use the men's locker room.

I get that she is not attracted to men. Fine. But most women are. And most men are attracted to women. Do we go all Starship Troopers and have coed locker rooms? Would most women be comfortable with their personal hygene being watched by some rando dude? My club has the requisite number of old guys walking around naked with their balls near their knees. I have contemplated gouging my eyes out a few times seeing that. Some women would be comfortable with that. Most not.

And the five hour gin games with dudes wearing towels. Ew.

[KamaAina]

93. What she wants is access to equal facilities.

For starters, there's a grill in the locker room that is male only. The women's locker room has its own eating area which is way more scaled down.

[AngryAmish]

99. Most clubs have grills, card rooms etc. in the locker rooms

Mine does.

The fact of the matter is most people who use country club locker rooms are male. The overwhelming majority of members are male. Equal facilities means a lot of lost capital.

What she misses, I bet, is the craic.

[KamaAina]

106. And therein lies a large part of the problem

Even if a country club is officially coed, like Augusta National, it's still pretty much the old boys' network. And it's still where all the deals get made.

[AngryAmish]

108. I have hung out in country clubs since I was 13

First as a caddy, then I worked in the clubhouse. I joined my club some years ago.

I have never done any deals at my club. Especially in the locker room. I have not seen it done either.

I also used to hang out in bars a lot. Did not see any deals being done there either.

I recreate to get away from work. So do most people.

[erpowers]

103. Missing My Bigger Point

You may be missing my point. I may not have explained my point well. My point was that Caitlyn Jenner cannot have things both ways. She cannot say she wants to be a woman, but she wants to be treated the same way she was when she was a man. She should either abide by the rules set for other women, or appeal on behalf of all women.

I am not against women using different locker rooms than men. I just do not think a man, or woman should transition to the opposite sex and then claim they should keep certain benefits that come from being of the previous sex. That is why I said she should not appeal solely for herself. Hypocritical may not be the word to describe her, but she will look like she is not really taking this transition issue seriously, or that she did not think this thing through.

[AngryAmish]

104. Eh, I was a jerk to jump down your throat.

Sorry.

[erpowers]

105. Do Not Think You Were A Jerk

I do not think you were a jerk. You just gave your opinion. Your post gave some interesting information.

[struggle4progress]

91. Meh.

[randys1]

96. The bigger issue here is Trans rights, that Caitlyn is a republican, is irrelevant

and I despise that she is, it really pisses me off.

But, the issue here is much bigger than her or that.

Lots of hate in America, everywhere for that matter, of lots of folk.

[tularetom]

102. If it bothers her, she probably should have considered the consequences before now

She can't have it both ways. If she wants to be a woman, she needs to accept the fact that she is no longer welcome to use the mens locker room.

Frankly, although I fully support her for taking the step she has, I don't think Ms Jenner is the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[treestar]

109. If you pay $150 K to join

why do that if they are discriminatory? That would include people born women.

Interesting in that now she gets to be a woman and suffer the discrimination against women in this society. That could give her interesting insights. She can tell us firsthand about her experiences before and after.

[gollygee]

114. They shouldn't have the food services segregated by gender

An underlying issue here is that they have some great food and drink service associated with the men's locker room and less nice food and drink service associated with the women's locker room. They could solve a lot of this by making locker rooms be just locker rooms, and moving the food and drink service where anyone can have whatever options are available.

Also, a lot of places are moving to having a couple of gender-neutral single-person bathrooms and changing rooms available to be more friendly and welcoming to transgender people, and in a lot of circumstances to help women who are helping sons in the changing room, or fathers who are helping daughters.

The food options attached to the locker rooms thing is just plain wrong and antiquated.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

127. I have been a guest at a country club a few times.

I'm pretty sure the reason for the difference in food service between the male and female locker rooms is the difference in the way men and woman eat - at least, the ladies who "lunch" at the club and are watching their figures.

It would be pointless to have a grill in the female locker room at the local club. The women in there are always eating stuff like soup and salad, light sandwiches, etc.

And the country club also has a dining room - a couple, in fact. But that's a different atmosphere than grabbing a quick sandwich in the locker room while cooling off after playing tennis.

[gollygee]

128. Oh please

Some women eat light, some men eat light, and there's no reason people who have different appetities can't eat together in one dining area. They could have one sandwich/grill area in the vicinity of the locker rooms for a quick bite.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

129. Sometimes, people like to be around their own sex only!

The one time I ate in the locker room with my friend and her grown daughter there was a lot of camaraderie, laughter, and acting crazy. It was great fun precisely because we were all women! Although the dining room in that club isn't stuffy and formal (not much of that in Texas), business people eat in there so the atmosphere reflects that.

I'm also pretty sure you can order off the regular dining room menu and have the food brought into the locker room in most clubs, so the choices aren't that limited. In fact, since we ate off of the Friday buffet, we got our own food and brought it in.

[gollygee]

131. So what?

It's still discrimination. Better food for one gender over another isn't fair or reasonable. It probably started a long, long time ago, before people cared about equality.