Things we should know about child molesters. (They are everywhere.)

[pnwmom]

Last edited Fri May 22, 2015, 12:20 AM - Edit history (1)

#1. They exist in every segment of society.

#2. They are usually someone known to the child.

#3. They usually don't appear "different" in any way.

http://www.childmolestationprevention.org/pages/about.html#our_mission

We avoid definitions that are ambiguous by sticking to the medical definition. We define "child molester" as an adult or child, who is at least five years older than the child he or she has molested.

SNIP

In analyzing the reports of the 4,000 admitted child molesters researchers found this: in their outward characteristics, matching percentages of child molesters to percentages of all American men, the average child molester closely matched the average American man.

.
Which Ethnic Groups Molest Children?
Are there ethnic groups in which child molestation does not occur? Probably not. Results from the Abel and Harlow Child Molestation Prevention Study suggest that each ethnic group studied has child molesters among them. Once again, the percentages bear a resemblance to the U.S. Census. (See "The Abel and Harlow Child Molestation Prevention Study" for further details about ethnic groups).

SNIP

Let's put the facts together:
• Child molesters exist in every part of our society.
• They molest children close to them, mainly children in their family or children in their social circle.
• Most child molesters, 90 percent, report that they know their child victims very well. . . .

To save the greatest number of children in the shortest possible time, we must turn the current focus of our efforts upside down. Right now, 90 percent of our efforts go toward protecting our children from strangers, when what we need to do is to focus 90 percent of our efforts toward protecting children from the abusers who are not strangers - the molesters in their families and the molesters who are the friends of their families.

[CoffeeCat]

1. The statistics repeatedly bear out that 1 in 4 women; and 1 in 7 men...

…were sexually abused before the age of 18. As you said, most molestations are perpetrated by someone the child knows, usually someone inside the home.

I've sat in support groups and listened to many stories. It's bizarre how so many victims describe their fathers--prominent businessmen, accountants, pastors, lawyers.

Because of my background, I may be a bit jaded. But on the other hand, I researched sexual abuse quite a bit, and I do know more than the average person. I think we have an epidemic in our country. I think many father and stepfathers sexually abuse their daughters and sons. I would not be shocked if the number was ten percent.

I think many, many powerful people engage in this behavior because they believe they can get away with it. As these types tell their victims repeatedly, "No one will believe you." I also think powerful people are attracted to these types of crimes, because they are sociopaths and psychopaths who have risen to the top in the business world through exploitation and greed. They abuse power at work and enjoy it, and they come home and abuse their kids.

Sexual abuse of children is about the perps desire to powering up on someone and control them. Children are so easily controlled, terrified and stunted into silence. These types enjoy the game.

Look at the latest from the Duggar family. The son who molested those girls was engaging in "acting out" behaviors. Incest happens in families where the kids are being molested. It seems obvious to me that the father was perping that son (and probably others) and his son turned around and did the same thing to his younger siblings. This type of behavior is a major red flag that the son was molested. It's also a major red flag that the Duggar home has issues with boundaries and that there is a lot of very, very deep dysfunction happening. Notice that the father tried to keep the abuse a secret? Notice that it wasn't the victims (his sisters!) who told? There's a serial conspiracy of silence and victimization in that family. The father wanted to keep it quiet--to keep many other secrets quiet. That entire family is probably a nest of incest and pedophilia. Again, not surprising.

I hope one day our society will begin to address this epidemic, but I think one of the main reasons that it is not addressed--is because many in power and in positions of authority--are engaging in it themselves.

[pnwmom]

2. CoffeeCat, this is why I posted.

I think too many people here are focusing on the 14 year old "perp" instead of the sick family system he was a part of.

And too many people want to think that child molesters only happen in "other" families. Whereas they could be in ANY of our families, and if we're not aware of that, our children are at risk.

We've given a home to a victim of child molestation, a young woman who is not ready to come forward with what happened to her and might not ever be. We have to watch the pain she's still going through, the PTSD, but most of the time being supportive means saying nothing -- letting her be the one to come to us. (She has been getting therapy for a year, so she's not on her own with this.)

So I know this awful man is walking the earth and there's nothing I can do and everyone just thinks he's an average guy. (I've called the local Sexual Assault line, and there really is nothing I can do because I have no personal knowledge; just hearsay. And the therapist isn't required to report because the victim is an adult now -- so it's up to her.)

[CoffeeCat]

3. Another point too, about the perp profile...

I did plenty of research on perpetrators. My therapist also treated perps and had terrific insight.

Although sexual predators cut across all socioeconomic and educational levels--one thing did stand out in the research. A high percentage of child molesters identified themselves as "religious."

Of course, not all people who are religious are perps, nor are they bad people. Of course not. However, this does make sense that many of them would be religious. A major hallmark of a perp is their elaborate and very complex denial system. They were often molested as kids, and in denial about the impact that it made on them. Then, they move on to molest others, often their own children. A normal person would collapse under the psychological weight of all of that. These molesters are able to live normal lives because they are in such horrendous denial. It really is mind boggling. They truly do not believe that they have done anything wrong. They often believe that sexually abusing children is helpful to them. They often blame the child.

Religion is often used to feed and build this elaborate denial system. They rationalize that they are "sinners" and that "God forgives them." They also use the Bible to reinforce their distorted beliefs about parents having total power over children, who must submit to them.

I noticed in a recent article about the Duggar son, that the father said this (direct quote), ""It is one of the reasons we treasure our faith so much because God’s kindness and goodness and forgiveness are extended to us — even though we are so undeserving. We hope somehow the story of our journey — the good times and the difficult times — cause you to see the kindness of God and learn that He can bring you through anything.

My opinion--that's also the father's rationalizations for what he has done. God forgives him. So, it's ok.

Thanks for posting about this, pnwmom. It's so important. Sorry to be long winded. So much to say on this subject, it seems.

[pnwmom]

5. I've read that, too, and it makes sense.

In fact, I assumed that in the case of this family, but the young woman said it wasn't true in their case. The family wasn't particularly religious. But the father did take advantage of homeschooling laws to keep the girl isolated. If she only she had had a teacher to talk to . . . someone she trusted outside of the family.

[Dont call me Shirley]

50. Not all predators are victims. Many victims do not become predators.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026712691



Solly Mack

56. It's not always true that a predator was once a victim.

Yes, the odds are in favor of it, but it's still not always true. So it could be that he wasn't abused himself. Or it could even be he was physically abused, as that can lead to his being a juvenile sex offender as well.

It could be the environment he grew up in....it could be a combination of physical & sexual abuse and his environment.

I don't know.

http://www.csom.org/pubs/mythsfacts.html

Myth:
"Children who are sexually assaulted will sexually assault others when they grow up."
Fact:
Most sex offenders were not sexually assaulted as children and most children who are sexually assaulted do not sexually assault others.

Early childhood sexual victimization does not automatically lead to sexually aggressive behavior. While sex offenders have higher rates of sexual abuse in their histories than expected in the general population, the majority were not abused. Among adult sex offenders, approximately 30% have been sexually abused. Some types of offenders, such as those who sexually offend against young boys, have still higher rates of child sexual abuse in their histories (Becker and Murphy, 1998).

While past sexual victimization can increase the likelihood of sexually aggressive behavior, most children who were sexually victimized never perpetrate against others.



Myth:
"Juvenile sex offenders typically are victims of child sexual abuse and grow up to be adult sex offenders."
Fact:
Multiple factors, not just sexual victimization as a child, are associated with the development of sexually offending behavior in youth.

Recent studies show that rates of physical and sexual abuse vary widely for adolescent sex offenders; 20 to 50% of these youth experienced physical abuse and approximately 40 to 80% experienced sexual abuse (Hunter and Becker, 1998). While many adolescents who commit sexual offenses have histories of being abused, the majority of these youth do not become adult sex offenders (Becker and Murphy, 1998). Research suggests that the age of onset and number of incidents of abuse, the period of time elapsing between the abuse and its first report, perceptions of how the family responded to the disclosure of abuse, and exposure to domestic violence all are relevant to why some sexually abused youths go on to sexually perpetrate while others do not (Hunter and Figueredo, in press).

[CoffeeCat]

69. But "acting out" sexually with siblings...

Last edited Sat May 23, 2015, 03:44 PM - Edit history (1)

…is the biggest red flag that a child has been sexually abused by someone in the home.

Teenagers and young children do not victimize several siblings repeatedly--without something being very, very off within the family.

That is family-systems dynamics 101.

While I agree with you--not all victims go on to grow up and become molesters--many molesters and serial killers share similar profiles. Many were abused as children. Many endured trauma while growing up.

Molesting children is about deriving satisfaction from victimizing someone and taking control and power over someone. It's not about getting off. These people get a high from taking complete control over a person. That's why they select children. It's easy to break them down, which is what they enjoy the most. The desire to power up on someone like that is often (but not always) gained from being victimized in the exact same way.

[Dont call me Shirley]

73. If victims of sexual abuse are going to be labelled as potential aggressors they will stop

speaking out. This magnifies the abuse even more. Victims must be able to tell without feeling like they are going to be accused of being sex offenders.

Much of the time a sex offender has a parent who is a sexual aggressor, that child may not have been molested by that parent or anyone in order to become a sexual aggressor. It can be expressed simply from their genetic trait.

Also there is the issue of a parent having difficulty with self-control so they practice control over others. The two traits combined become an explosive combination.

Let's say the father is a date/spouse rapist and did not molest the son. The son did grow up to repeatedly incest the younger sister. The son, who was not victimized, sexually assaulted the sister, who did not become a sexual abuser. Genetics.

[CoffeeCat]

82. I do get what you are saying...

…about victims. They are saddled with so much, such heavy burdens. And I understand what you are saying--that constantly suggesting that victims turn into pedophiles--could leave many of them feeling that if they come forward, that the world will think they may be an offender.

I do get that.

Most victims do not tell--90 percent. We do need to be careful about how we speak, to ensure that how we are speaking does not add to the chilling effect.

Silence only helps the perpetrators. Helping victims to come forward is essential. It helps the victims, and it also helps society understand the epidemic of childhood sexual abuse that no one seems to want to face.

[CoffeeCat]

4. That's amazing...

…that you have provided stability, kindness and love to this young woman as she untangles herself from the abuse.

Wow, what a gift you are giving to her.

So many times, these kids go out into the world with PTSD, and they are literally rudderless. They don't understand why they cannot thrive. And they have job stress, economic stress and other stresses on top of the PTSD.

You're providing a safe landing for her, as she processes all of this.

If she's showing the pain, that is a good sign. I didn't show any pain until I was in my 30's. That's pretty typical. If she's processing at such an early age, it's because you are providing that safe environment. She will be light years ahead. I know it's painful to watch, but purging that pain and feeling it is the best thing that can happen to her. Ultimately, it is what will set her free-as you know.

Thank you for doing that for her. You are amazing!

[pnwmom]

6. I so hope you're right, CoffeeCat. I've been hoping that her dealing with this

since young adulthood would make it better for her in the long run, even if harder now. Thanks for the encouragement.

[ohheckyeah]

7. My niece called me a couple of weeks

ago with a problem her middle school daughter was having with a teacher. He would walk by and rub the girls on the back or arm and run his hand down their hair. My great niece asked him to quit touching her. The next week he slapped her upside the head in front of the whole class room.

My niece had already talked to the principal (and recorded it). He made excuses for the teacher. My niece went to the schoolboard and got her daughter moved to another class and insisted an investigation be opened. This wasn't the first complaint by a student.

I think the pats and rubbing is the tip of the iceberg.

[pnwmom]

10. Wow. I'm thinking it's time for someone to hire a lawyer. Slapping her on the head is assault.

And the pats and rubbing are not appropriate.

[ohheckyeah]

19. I wanted

her to go to the police but a police officer friend to my niece wanted the school board investigation first.

I think the pats and rubbing are to get the girls used to his touch.

[FSogol]

24. "I think the pats and rubbing are to get the girls used to his touch." - that's called "grooming".

It is modus operandi for many molesters. The school administrators should know that.

[ohheckyeah]

25. Thanks.

I couldn't think of the word for it. Grooming is what I think he's doing.

[ProfessorGAC]

30. And, The Principal Needs To Be Re-Educated As Well

The teacher does that and the principal makes excuses. There's something wrong with that too.

[Dorian Gray]

64. Holy crap

I can't believe the principal dismissed her complaints like that.

My husband teaches at an all girls Catholic high school. One of the male teachers had a compaint made against him (four years ago). One student (a student with a bad behavioral record) complained that he said inappropriate things to her in his classroom after school hours. They questioned his students, switched her classroom, questioned him, etc. During the investigation, she recanted. But the school took it VERY seriously, even though he was a long time veteran with no complaints against him at all.

I can't imagine a school making excuses for a teacher with multiple complaints about something like that. So terrible! You have a strong grand-niece! You must be proud of her for standing up for herself and pursuing justice!

[ohheckyeah]

65. I am

obnoxiously proud of her and her mom. Her mom is kind of timid but this brought out an outraged mom. I would have loved to have seen the principal's face when she slapped her phone on his desk and told him she was recording their conversation.

It was important her mother stood up for her. She had started having panic attacks. They went away when she got away from that teacher.

[Dorian Gray]

85. A supportive

mom, especially one that usually is quiet, must have meant the world to her.

Having a child attacked in such a way can bring out the hidden tiger in any mom.

[Hekate]

8. People always try to make it about "the Other", but they are in our own communities too....

The reaction at DU to the story about the Duggars is typical. This community doesn't like them, in fact finds their lifestyle and holier than thou attitude offensive. Therefore the pile-on, the Schadenfreude -- the pretense that it couldn't happen to any of us.

[pnwmom]

9. +1000. n/t

[AngryDem001]

11. This is just my opinion,

but "they are everywhere" is fear-mongering.

[pnwmom]

12. 1 of out 4 girls has been molested as a child. This is not fear-mongering, this is reality.

This can only happen because there are child molesters, and people who protect molesters, in every segment of society.

[xfundy]

14. And some number of boys as well.

It's been covered up for years, not talked about. Enough. Time to end the cycle.

[pnwmom]

16. Yes -- 1 out of 6 or 7. It's an epidemic. n/t

[SheilaT]

18. 1 out of 4?

Is this a verifiable statistic?

[pnwmom]

20. It came from a CDC report.

https://www.clevelandrapecrisis.org/resources/statistics/about-child-sexual-abuse

1 in 4 girls is sexually abused before the age of 18
1 in 6 boys is sexually abused before the age of 18

ACE Study - Prevalence - Adverse Childhood Experiences Http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/ace/prevalence.htm

[SheilaT]

36. I certainly hate to doubt the CDC, although that report

is from the Cleveland Rape Crisis Center.

I know that my own personal experience is just that, and this is the sort of thing that is rarely spoken about out loud. But still, 1 in 4 is just mind-boggling.

My own personal experience is that I was not sexually abused as a child.

[hfojvt]

39. they say it is from the 2003 crime victimization survey

so far, after a little searching, I cannot find the data

but it is very hard to believe.

For example, I CAN find that the rate of rape/sexual assault is 1.2 per 1,000. That's 0.1%. So how do you get from 0.1% to 20%? Granted that over-all rate may be lower, because as people become 16-60 they perhaps become harder to victimize as they get bigger and also more wary, and that age group maybe brings the rate way down.

But still, even getting from 0.5 to 20% isn't going to happen.

I wonder if this isn't from lowering the bar to where "the teacher touched my hair, ewww, I was molested." Speculation since I cannot figure which pdf will have the actual data. It's not replicated, as far as I can tell, in the 2013 report.

[SheilaT]

40. I'm sort of wondering the same thing.

While I don't want to minimize how bad molestation is, scare tactics and inflated numbers don't help.

I'm a bit reminded of the whole "Stranger Danger" thing. Most kids who are "kidnapped" are taken by the non-custodial parent. I remember attending something at my oldest kid's pre-school, and the whole terror that the kids might be kidnapped by some random stranger was being emphasized. When I brought up that more of us needed to worry about what might happen in the future when any of us are divorced, I was met with an extremely cold reception.

[pnwmom]

44. Child sexual abuse is a larger category than rape/sexual assault.

It includes any sexual conduct that is harmful to children, so it is a broader category. But no one should minimize the effects. For example, the effects of verbal sexual abuse can be profoundly damaging. Or sharing pornography with a child. Or sexual grooming. Or "fondling" -- even if the child "enjoyed" the experience at the time.

[Cal Carpenter]

70. That rate you cite

is likely only for a given year, not for a person's life. The percentage of people who are victims of rape/sexual assault in their lifetimes is way higher than 1.2 per 1,000.

I don't know what the truth is about the 1 in 4 number, but I did want to point out that you are likely comparing two very different measurements. I may be wrong, but that number is unlike any I've heard in this context.

eta:

Here's a link that may shed some light http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvsv9410.pdf

[hfojvt]

71. it was for a year

but my point was if you take a set of 3 year olds and assume different victims every year then there are 15 years between 3 and 18. At a rate of 0.5 per year the total after those 15 years is only 7.5% well, well below 20% - and that is with the most generous assumptions

a) raising the rate from 0.12 to 0.5%
b) assuming different victims every year and no duplication of victims - EVER.

the 1 in 4 and the 1 in 6 were supposedly from before the age of 18, not over an entire lifetime (even though a person can usually no longer be statutorially raped after the age of 16 (in most states) or 14 in barbaric countries like Germany and Brazil.

[pnwmom]

81. And my point is that rape statistics and child molestation statistics are two different things.

Touch or receiving a touch from a child, for the purposes of sexual gratification, even if "voluntarily" done by a child, will be counted as molestation, even if it would not be considered rape or even assault between equal adults. A child cannot give consent for sexual touching; an adult can. Also, verbal sexual abuse (similar to what the adult law calls "sexual harassment&quot is included in the statistic. So the category of child molestation is much broader than for adult rape and assault.

[pnwmom]

42. The report from the Cleveland Rape Crisis Center had footnotes

and the footnote for that number came from this CDC report:

ACE Study - Prevalence - Adverse Childhood Experiences Http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/ace/prevalence.htm

[snooper2]

43. CDC site says report not found- here is what the CDC actually says-

In a nationally representative survey of adults:1
• Nearly 1 in 5 (18.3%) women and 1 in 71 men
(1.4%) reported experiencing rape at some time in
their lives.
• Approximately 1 in 20 women and men (5.6% and
5.3%, respectively) experienced sexual violence
other than rape, such as being made to penetrate
someone else, sexual coercion, unwanted
sexual contact, or non-contact unwanted sexual
experiences, in the 12 months prior to the survey.
• 4.8% of men reported they were made to penetrate
someone else atsome time in their lives.
• 13% of women and 6% of men reported they
experienced sexual coercion at some time in their
lives.

http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/SV-DataSheet-a.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/sexualviolence/datasources.html

[pnwmom]

45. Child sexual abuse is a broader category, including types of actions

beyond those that would be considered rape and assault of an adult.

And the element of coercion is not required. Even if a child is taught to "want" the fondling, for example, it is still child sexual abuse for an adult to engage in it.

So you're comparing apples and oranges and minimizing the effects of damaging sexual conduct with children.

Here's another good organization:

rainn.org

[snooper2]

46. I'm not trying to minimize anything just looking for the raw data from CDC or FBI

Above it said 1 in 4 girls, 25%-

I would really like to know when my daughter goes to 6th grade if a quarter of her classmates have been molested-

[pnwmom]

47. The number includes girls up to the age of 18 so it would obviously be lower at the age of 11.

But the number is significant, whatever it is. I'm not sure why it's important to you to know what percentage of your daughters classmates have been molested. You should assume some have been.

But as I said, this includes actions that would not be listed in CDC or FBI statistics for adults. The FBI only looks at reported cases, and most involving children are not. And sexual conduct that would be considered consensual among adults is considered abusive if the perpetrator is five or more years older than the victim.

(Ordinary sex play among peers is not considered sex abuse. It is a difference in age and power that makes "consensual" behavior actually abusive.)

[xfundy]

15. Not when they really are everywhere.

Including in the "best" of families. You need to tune into reality once in awhile.

[AngryDem001]

21. I am tuned into reality.

I'm just not scared that there is some boogeyman behind every tree.

Yes, there are evil scum out there, but please do not make children afraid of the world. Educate, don't scare.

[Brickbat]

23. What are some effective ways to educate children about the threat they face?

[underahedgerow]

28. Talk openly to the children. Assuming it's not a primary parent who is molesting them

then teach kids from the earliest age possible that they have the right to object when anyone touches them inappropriately.

I chatted with my daughter quite easily about it a number of times from when she was little itty bitty.

I basically told her that it is never ok for anyone to touch her private parts unless it's a doctor and I'm there. I said there are some weird people out there who have some strange ideas about touching kids in a weird way and that it's never ok. So we talked about it a little bit occasionally if the time or issue came up, and luckily, she was never exposed to any risk.

I absolutely know that it's important for educators, teachers and parents to talk openly about these things, and for it not to be a secret. If we keep it a deep dark secret, then the perverts can too. If we talk openly about these crimes then the freaks can't hide anymore.

[Brickbat]

32. Oh, I know. I just wanted to see where AngryDem001 drew the line between education and

"fear-mongering."

[AngryDem001]

48. What I mean is that you can teach children that their body is THEIRS,

without instilling a fear of the world. Caution, yes.....but not fear.

What concerns me is that parents are going to fall for the media's mantra that there is a "boogeyman" out there. Be it pedophiles, mass shooters etc.

I guess what I am trying to say is to educate kids about the dangers that they may face, while still letting them trick-or-treat and play outside. Please, please let kids maintain some semblance of innocence.

I was not attacking anyone with my "fear-mongering" comment.

[Brickbat]

66. I think that was the OP's point.

There isn't a boogeyman out there. People who molest children are usually people we know -- family, coaches, pastors, people we look up to. They can be anywhere because they target children, and children are everywhere. Acknowledging that and teaching children about that IS educating them, not scaring them.

ETA: I do understand what you're trying to say, though, I think. We can teach children about the risks, love them, support them and give them the tools they need to understand what molestation is (teach bodily autonomy and consent), and then either send them out into the world or keep them inside and under careful watch. I get that, if that's what you're saying. But I believe it's possible to teach them about risks and build up their confidence so they know what correct and healthy adult behavior looks like without it being "fear-mongering."

[KitSileya]

35. Respect children's bodily autonomy by not forcing them to hug or kiss people.

That includes grandparents and parents. Children should be asked before anyone hugs or kiss them, and it should be made clear that they can say no without repercussions. Anything else is teaching them that their consent is worth nothing.

[LanternWaste]

38. Consciously conflating concern and awareness with "scared" kind of invalidates your premise

Consciously conflating concern and awareness with "scared" kind of invalidates any premise you may have...

[Scootaloo]

77. It's not the boogeyman behind a tree, it's the one preparing dinner, or watching TV on the sofa

[LanternWaste]

37. I imagine many people believe accuracy is indeed, fear mongering.

I imagine many people believe accuracy is indeed, fear mongering.

[Dont call me Shirley]

51. Sorry but they are everywhere. Step out of the denial hole.

[AngryDem001]

52. Sorry, but I am not going to go through life scared of my own shadow.

I don't want children too, either.

[Dont call me Shirley]

53. I didn't say be afraid. I said be aware. Big difference.

[AngryDem001]

55. I apologize for snapping.

I had a mother who tried her best to make me afraid of the world and it fucked with my head a little bit. I guess I am being oversensitive and took it personally.

But, yes I am VERY aware.

[Dont call me Shirley]

72. Dem001...

Had an abusive negligent mother here
A good therapist helps.

Mothers who do not want children should not be forced to gave them. Parenting classes need to be made mandatory and starting early in life.

[AngryDem001]

74. I do have a great therapist.

I also have a wonderful woman in my life.

Thank you so much for your understanding and compassion. It's been about ten years since I escaped her clutches. There are days where I feel like that same scared little boy.

And, speaking of mothers being forced to have kids they don't want. The 20-week abortion ban made it through the House. It enrages me beyond words.....

[Dont call me Shirley]

75. Thank goodness for great therapists!

Boos on anti-abortion/birth-planning jerks

[Blue_In_AK]

13. This is accurate.

Back in the early '80s, I worked as a correctional officer/counselor at a prison here in Alaska that housed mostly sex offenders. Most of the pedophiles that I dealt with were otherwise completely law-abiding citizens, with scarcely a traffic ticket to their names, often "pillars of their community," as opposed to the rapists, who were generally more criminally minded (many of them had graduated from burglary). The pedophiles were convinced that their acts were committed out of "love" for their victims.

[pnwmom]

17. Yes, the one I know of is a well-respected business owner. No one would ever guess.

Maybe some of the family might have guessed why the parents got divorced and the daughter is so estranged and has legally changed her name, but it doesn't appear so. They've all got blinders firmly on.

[840high]

83. The one I know lives in

my area. Average, pleasant man.

[hobbit709]

22. And often they get away with it for years because it gets hushed up.

[katmondoo]

26. Josh Dugger comes to mind. I always suspect the overly religous

[pnwmom]

41. But you should also be aware that these people exist in all types of families

It is too easy to suspect them only in "The Other."

[lumberjack_jeff]

27. "focus 90 percent of our efforts toward protecting children from the abusers who are not strangers"

How do we do that? What does this look like?

[underahedgerow]

29. By talking about it outside the home, in churches, in schools and anywhere we can. If WE

talk about it openly and without shame within communities, then the children won't be so afraid to talk about it too.

There is no shame in being molested, the only shame lies with the freaks perpetrating it. Let's shine the lights on them.

[Brickbat]

33. Teaching bodily autonomy and consent from an early age.

One of the biggest things? Not making a three- or four-year-old give hugs or kisses if they don't want to. Ever.

[underahedgerow]

31. Anecdote; Nearly all child molesters were also victims of molestation. That is not to say however,

and pay attention please, that all victims of molestation will commit the same crimes.

I came across this fact while doing some research a number of years ago, but validated it at the time.

[KitSileya]

34. ore to the fact, most of them are the ones you least expect it of.

Because they deliberately cultivate a persona that is seen as positive and trustworthy. Your child is much more likely to be molested by that wonderful kindergarten teacher (a male kindergarten teacher just admitted to molesting at least 11 children in a kindergarten in Tromsø, Norway, to the huge surprise of the parents and all his friends,) your husband's best friend from childhood, that friendly housewife who volunteers with the girl guides, or your new spouse and the kid's new step-parent, than by the "weirdo" down the street.

[Dont call me Shirley]

49. Thank you pnwmom

[pnwmom]

57. You're very welcome!

[Mira]

54. This hits close to home!!! Here is personal proof of the post's premise.

My son had a son at an early age (22) and chose an art school same age close friend as his child's godfather.
When my grandson was two we learned that the godfather was being watched by the police for taking photos of schoolchildren getting off the bus, and we also realized that child porn had been downloaded by him on my son's computer.

We suffered through being checked out by Social Services. We all determined no molestation had occurred, but my son forbade the godfather to ever come near his child again. We felt it was important to protect the young one, even if we might be accusing the grown one unduly.

One month ago, this is now close to twenty years later, my grandson's godfather was put away for a sentence of 45 years without parole.
I can't tell you what he did, because I can't stand the thought of it.

Yes.
Watch and be vigilant. They are not at all necessarily the strangers.

[pnwmom]

56. I am so glad your son and grandson dodged that bullet.

It must have been horrifying just to go through the investigation!

You are absolutely right. They are not all strangers -- and they are not all obvious rightwing nutcases like the Duggars.

I know two victims personally. One is a young woman who was molested by her adoptive father. She's getting therapy but hasn't yet been able to confront him -- and maybe never will. Until she does, he will probably remain a respected member of the community. She grew up in a conservative family of homeschoolers so DUers would have a field day.

The other is a young man who was groped as a ten year old by his father, a very liberal, highly-educated Democrat who years later left his family and came out as gay. He also lived and died as a respected member of the community because his victim didn't report either. DUers would not be gleeful about this case, but people like the Duggars probably would.

The fact is, child molesters are in all walks of life, all ethnic and religious backgrounds, and no one should think that their "group" is exempt. And most cases are never reported; we probably only see the tip of the iceberg.

[WestCoastLib]

58. "They usually dont appear different in any way"- I disagree

"They usually dont appear different in any way"

I disagree. I have known and suspected people before. As many children, I have even been victimized, though not severely.

We are often too polite to say so, but I'm sorry I don't believe it to be true. Most people know when there's something "off" about another person, we are just conditioned to be polite in society and it would be rude to admit that. While it's not true that everybody that gives off that vibe has something wrong with them, most people that do have something wrong with them will give off that vibe. And some of it is a pure intentioned fear of persecuting the innocent that prevents us from admitting this fact to each other.

There is also a VERY REAL connection people often will not bring up between molestation/pedophilia and fundamantalism. We refuse to call this out because Christianity has too much power. This is not to say it only happens there, it happens everywhere, but that group of white christians is particularly protected in these manners. I'm sure we all have our stories about various members of their tribe that were never punished for acts that everybody knew took place.

However, Josh Duggar, or Jim Bob Duggar for that matter certainly appear different enough to me (before this came out) that I wouldn't associate with them and certainly not leave a child with them. If these people seem "normal" to you, well I'm afraid you may be among those people I was referencing before(that seem off, but are innocent).

And sure what I'm saying is somewhat anecdotal, but I find it very rare to find someone that genuinely seems what I would consider "normal" to be a pedophile. Certainly it can happen in any walk of life and things like money, fame and status don't protect you, if that's what you mean, but I'm sorry, these people are weird. I mean people like Woody Allen are oddballs that I would rightly never have thought to leave alone with a child. He might be a genius and we can debate the merits of his art if you want, but you can't claim with a straight face that he's not "different".

Trust your instincts and stay away from them.

[pnwmom]

59. Jerry Sandusky. Does the name ring any bells? Did you suspect him all along?

You are suspicious of men who are obviously creepy. You would miss the two who molested children I know (now adults). Both are "normal" men in their communities. One is a Republican real estate broker and the other is a Democratic management consultant. Both have had wives and children. Neither have horns.

And neither have ever been charged because their victims can't bring themselves to do it.

Remember the Penn State scandal? How many people thought Sandusky seemed suspicious? Almost no one, so he preyed on kids for years. Another pillar of the community.

http://www.npr.org/2011/11/08/142111804/penn-state-abuse-scandal-a-guide-and-timeline

[WestCoastLib]

60. Have you seen video of jerry Sandusky?

Not having any connection to Penn State, I never once heard the name before the scandal broke, so my commenting on it is somewhat unfair. But the guy seems plenty creepy to me and yes he totally gives off "that vibe" to me.

Is my opinion clouded by the facts as I know them now is a fair question to ask and we will never know since I'd never heard of him before.

[pnwmom]

61. I know a number of people in the Penn State community

were were totally blindsided by the stories, including people who worked in the same charitable organization. I have never heard anyone say they ever suspected him -- and he had a very high profile.

I haven't actually seen a video of him but I don't know if I could view it objectively now, and not just see evil oozing out of him.

[WestCoastLib]

67. People never like to admit they were wrong

no suprise there

[oberliner]

68. What makes a person seem "off" ?

What are the specific things that you've noticed?

[WestCoastLib]

86. Most people should be able to pick up on them

Some choose not to for various reasons and some others don't have great social awareness. Maybe they don't pick up on them as well, but it seems obvious to me.

No, I won't lay out the signs for you on this thread. As I said above, just because a person has these creepy traits doen't necessarily make them a molester or abuser or anything horrific.

[oberliner]

87. OK

I'm not so good at picking up on those sorts of things usually so I was just curious to hear your thoughts.

[greymattermom]

62. Jim Bob Duggar

Says a lot of creepy things on camera. You wonder what's going on when the camera isn't on. He always seems "off" to me.

[pnwmom]

63. He does seem creepy, and so does his wife. But we have might have more to worry about

in our own lives, and with our own children, with men who don't obviously seem creepy -- yet still could be child molesters.

[Oktober]

76. Be afraid... Be very afraid...

[Lilith Rising]

78. I think it's also wise to include the gender of the

majority of perpetrators even though it's not a popular thing to do.

"The perpetrators of sexual abuse are overwhelmingly male. Studies using the law
enforcement as well as victim self-report data found that more than 90% of the perpetrators of
sexual offenses against minors were male" - http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/factsheet/pdf/CSA-FS20.pdf

While women/girls do molest children, it would be remiss of parents to not inform their children that the "overwhelming" majority of pedophiles are male.

[romanic]

79. It truly is scary.

Last edited Sun May 24, 2015, 02:21 AM - Edit history (1)

And this really hits home for me. I can remember a friend of my dad who always seemed leery to me. One day him and my dad were drinking (my dad was an alcoholic) and my dad ended up falling asleep on the couch. Well his "friend" decided to walk across the street to the park where I was at with friends and asked us if we wanted to "go to the store". I always felt like he was a fucking creep so me and my friends said no. He walked off and down the street and didn't come back.

Well the next day, me and my parents found out the fucking pervert was caught masturbating on a playground next to an elementary school. My dad was livid and asked me if he ever touched me; I said no but deep down, I knew if I had gone with him that he would have. To make a long story short, my dad never brought his other friends to our house and as for the perv; last I hear he's still in prison for another case.

That's why I always tell my sister, never bring other men around her kids and always have more than one person around to watch them. Prevention of strangers and questionable relatives around children can really cut back the chances of any molesting going on. It helps to keep many eyes watching the kids to prevent anything from happening as well.

[pnwmom]

80. I'm glad you trust your instincts, romanic, and had better judgment than your dad. n/t

[romanic]

84. Thank you.

My dad learned a lot from that experience and I'm happy to say he longer drinks or associates with unsavory folks. I just wish that situation never happened in the first place, he still regrets it to this day.