Robert Kraft-Patriots won't appeal ruling

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Developing...

[trumad]

1. Wonder if that includes Brady...

Them not appealing means they don't want sunshine.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. I don't think it affects Brady...

But if you think it through it weakens his case dramatically as Kraft's failure to appeal the ruling can be construed as acceptance of its findings.

[trumad]

3. construed---

It slams it home.

It was just a short time ago he was demanding an apology from the NFL.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. He didn't look very happy at his short presser but who would be? /NT

[trumad]

6. This really is a bit of a stunner....

News has it that Goodell and Kraft hugged it out at the NFL meeting. Goodell probably sat Kraft down and said---let's not open this up to public scrutiny because it will embarrassing to you and the organization. I guarantee there is more to the story than the public knows.

I think they made some type of agreement with McNally and Jastremski to keep their mouths shut --and NDA of some type---for a nice severance package. It the Pat's appealed, all bets are off and they'd talk.

[TheCowsCameHome]

10. Wait until Goodell finds his wallet is missing.

Hugging Kraft has it's risks.

[R B Garr]

34. Yes, this does sound exactly right. Kraft thought they could jack the NFL

about the negative publicity, but Kraft learned it would actually be the other way around.

What a shame how they treated those ball boys. They were the sacrificial lambs for Brady's creepy ego. Brady needs a lawyer to keep the conversation away from his failure to cooperate about his communications with those fired employees. There was obviously some backdoor shady Brady deal going on.

[brush]

56. For such an allegedly well-run organization they sure handled this badly

All that had to be done when the story was first breaking was for Kraft, Belicheck and Brady to say that Brady had asked the equipment manager to keep his balls inflated at the lower limit of the legal range and some balls may have been deflated too much.

That would have been the end of it.

But alas, that bus is out of the barn, across the field, through the gap in the fence and running over Brady.

[brush]

55. Yep, Brady is officially under the bus. nt

[MADem]

5. Providing the Brady suspension is OFF the table, I suspect.

They said they were going to call Goodell as a witness, which makes him unable to be the arbitrator of any proceeeding.

Exponent Consulting, the people who did the PSI tech work on the Wells Report, are the same people who "proved" that smoking doesn't cause cancer, and asbestos isn't harmful to auto workers. They are paid to provide results that the client wants.

The only reason Kraft would back down is because he got a good deal. Otherwise, he's ready to rumble.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. What deal

He acceded to the $1,000,000.00 fine and the two lost draft picks.

1:13 p.m.: Robert Kraft wraps up after no more than 5 minutes at the podium, and to recap: Kraft announced the Patriots won’t appeal the league’s discipline in wake of the Wells Report. That pertains to the NFL taking away draft picks and fining the Patriots $1 million. That doesn’t pertain to Tom Brady’s four-game suspension.

Read more at: http://nesn.com/2015/05/robert-kraft-news-conference-live-patriots-owner-speaks-at-league-meetings/

[trumad]

9. Ouch.

Some forget that.

[MADem]

14. "That doesn’t pertain to Tom Brady’s four-game suspension."

The Patriots have a tendency to pick players with unusual characteristics, anyway, who aren't necessarily "top" draft picks, so that's no biggie. The money? Kraft is rich. Not-like-regular-people rich. When his wife was alive, she probably spent that on a season's wardrobe.

If Brady wins his case, the whole faux scandal ends up being moot, anyway. He has a powerhouse lawyer who doesn't lose when he goes up against the NFL, so his odds are looking pretty good right now.

[R B Garr]

32. All Tom had to do was cooperate with the prior investigation, but he didn't.

So it's not a "faux scandal." If it was, Tom would have turned over his electronic communications to exonerate himself, but he didn't. He needs to escalate this with a fancy pants lawyer so that he can divert attention from that fact. He's banking on the NFL not wanting the negative publicity and he can make them fold. That's what Kraft was also trying to do, but it looked like the "science" didn't support their claims, so it was actually the Pats who caved because they didn't want the negative publicity.

It's laughable that you bring up the fact that Kraft is rich and his wife spent as much money as a wardrobe as they are being fined, so all other NFL fans have to shut up and go away so the Pats can cheat. Uh huh.

[bluedigger]

35. Yes, I'd definitely give my personal cell phone to my employer if they asked.

Just the other day a pen went missing when we needed it, and I told them to search my home. Only people with something to hide demand their right to privacy.

[R B Garr]

36. Lame, because that's not what was required. All he had to do was

cooperate by letting HIS AGENT look through the phone. Then the investigator would have taken the Agent's word at what was responsive to their questions. That's it. And he still didn't do that.

No lawyer would advise a client to escalate a situation where cooperation would exonerate him. Unless they have something to hide and they need to hide behind a lawyer to obfuscate.

[bluedigger]

37. And let my agent find out I'm looking for a new agent?

There are any number of innocent reasons why a person would not find this acceptable, none of which would suffice to vindicate one already found guilty in the court of public opinion. Lawyers successfully advise clients to "plead the 5th" on a daily basis. The only reason this situation escalated is because of the actions of a hamfisted and unfettered NFL commissioner in need of a public relations victory after a very very bad year who makes up the rules as he goes along.

[R B Garr]

38. Laughable, because if Tom had issues with his agent, then he would have

Last edited Fri May 22, 2015, 10:41 AM - Edit history (1)

found a new one before he allowed himself to be further represented by this agent, who has somehow now come under suspicion in your phony diversion tactic.

If Tom was innocent, he would have cooperated with the investigation. Surely he could have used his attorney to those ends, as well. Lots of attorneys help innocent clients exonerate themselves so that they can avoid suspensions and unnecessary negative publicity. No sports team welcomes negative publicity and suspensions, so it's ridiculous to suggest that Tom would abide this if he could easily take care of it by cooperating.

And now for your grand finale, the "hamfisted and unfettered NFL commissioner." What was actually being reported on the sports networks is that the moves by the Pats/shady Brady were done to try and compromise Goddell in this process. It's all a big conspiracy, lol. I guess anything to get out of answering the cheating charges. Now the Pats are getting caught up again in their own web of deceit.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. There is no 5th Amendment protection in civil litigation

The defendant has to testify...If this goes to civil court the NFL can subpoena his phone.

[MADem]

39. Like I keep saying, Time Will Tell.

I wouldn't bet against Brady, and I wouldn't bet on Goodell.

Kraft's wife, FWIW, is dead. I mention that amount because it's, Big Picture, the truth of the situation. Kraft could piss and moan and delay things, or he can step out of the way and get the same result by letting Brady take the lead.

When the Commissioner of the NFL admits that his MULTI million dollar report is "flawed," you can anticipate that there's going to be some backtracking happening. The only quesiton now is the timeline. Uh huh!

[brush]

57. Ahhh . . . it was a million dollar fine not a billion dollar one. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

59. $1,000,000.00 fine =one million dollars

This would be one billion dollars

$1,000,000,000.00

[brush]

60. Oops, you're right. The two extra zeros at the end threw me off. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. Let's just split the difference./NT

[trumad]

8. So you know that Brady suspension is off the table?

I'm guessing you believe the Deflator name excuse as well?

[MADem]

11. Brady has a lawyer and he's moving forward with his action.

It's only "The Patriots" who are just going to pay the fine. Brady isn't accepting suspension.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/05/18/meet-jeffrey-kessler-the-lawyer-backing-tom-brady/jjQpuIa1pFFvVe0YEvG1BL/story.html

With Brady’s appeal filed, the league announced that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell will hear the case. That’s obviously a tough sell for those hoping for a more “neutral” arbiter.

McCann said a pair of notable neutral options would have been former NFL labor attorney Harold Henderson, who heard Peterson’s appeal, or retired federal judge Barbara Jones, who heard Rice’s.

Should Goodell rule against Brady, it will be up to Brady to decide whether to drop his fight or file a lawsuit under the International Labor Relations Act or could pursue a defamation case. Whichever avenue Brady chooses, McCann said his hiring Kessler makes court a likely scenario.

“(Kessler’s) real strength would be if Brady later on sues,” McCann said. “We don’t know if it’s going to happen, but if it does, I think Kessler would be a very intimidating lawyer...Brady retaining Kessler has a signaling effect to the NFL.”

Big finish, here:

“I do think there’s at least a reasonable chance this winds up in court,” McCann said. “The most likely outcome is the suspension is reduced or overturned, and Brady is playing either in week 1 or week 3.”

Time, as it always does, will tell.

[trumad]

12. Love the diminished argument---

Just a fine.


A MILLION DOLLAR FINE WITH TWO DRAFT CHOICES.

That is big.

[MADem]

17. Not to that team, it isn't.

The money is nothing. The picks can be mitigated entirely -- it's not like the Patriots always take the "prize" guys, anyway. They prefer work ethic over flash.

[trumad]

28. Like I said...the diminished argument.

You Patriot fans Crack me up.

[MADem]

29. I've never been to a game and I rarely watch them. I could hardly be called a fan.

I watch the superbowl for the commercials, no matter which teams are playing. I used to win office pools because I chose the winners based on their names and if they were home/away, not because I followed league play--and I won a lot of office pools.

I couldn't tell you the detailed rules of football on a bet. I am resentful when football analysis programmes interrupt Jeopardy.

But hey, go ahead and put my assessment down to something other than reading about this issue.

You're quite free to back the company that was highlighted in the THANK YOU FOR SMOKING film, because they're the ones who came up with the "scientific" reports. I think, based on what I've read, that Brady has an excellent chance of prevailing and Kraft has either already worked a deal with Goodell or is getting out of the way so as not to impede the progress of Brady's legal action against the NFL.

But--like I keep saying, over and over again--time will tell. And I'm not going to make some cheap crack about you as a retort, either. I just don't need to do that to make my point.

[trumad]

30. You didn't answer my question above.

Do you believe the story that the Deflator name was about losing weight?

[MADem]

31. I honestly don't know. I know that they cherry-picked the conversations, and they used

Exponent "Thank You For Smoking" Consulting to cough up their "findings" so it's impossible to know what is truth and what is not.

No one is saying anything about the 16 lb. balls that were found at another game. Of course, that doesn't fit the myth of advantage, so that information is deemed not salient.

I think if the NFL wants the balls at a certain PSI, the NFL needs to take the lead on putting the air in them. THEY need to maintain positive control of them, and THEY need to do the filling, not leave it to part-time underlings.

Otherwise, they're going to get what they get if they abdicate their responsibility.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/in-trying-to-restore-his-authority-goodell-undermined-his-credibility/2015/05/21/142c8d2c-ffd4-11e4-805c-c3f407e5a9e9_story.html

In trying to restore his authority through Deflategate, Roger Goodell undermined his credibility

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell predetermined guilt in DeflateGate; that’s clear now. He has smeared Tom Brady and the New England Patriots without proper evidence or a competent investigation, and turned an unimportant misdemeanor into a damaging scandal, as part of a personal power play to shore up his flagging authority. In other cases, he just looked inept. In this one, he looks devious.

Wednesday night at the NFL owners meetings in San Francisco, Goodell as much as admitted that the Wells report is incomplete, despite the fact that it took four months, cost millions in legal fees, and was supposed to be comprehensive. After all, the league used it to levy historically harsh penalties against Brady and the Patriots, claiming they deflated footballs in the AFC championship game. Nevertheless, Goodell opened the door to walking it back, saying he wants to talk personally to Brady, who has appealed his four-game suspension. ... Now this is the height of disingenuousness. Because we already know the Wells report missed crucial information and didn’t consider important facts. Ted Wells either overlooked or ignored crucial text messages, he used a firm with a reputation for bending science to fit predetermined conclusions, and he cherry-picked the memory of an NFL referee. But that’s not all. The Wells report left completely unexamined the fact that the NFL has never once considered the inflation of footballs to be a matter of great integrity or competitive advantage, before now.

And this is where Brady can blow the commissioner out of a courtroom. And perhaps out of his job.


... That the league has never particularly enforced standards is evident in a hilarious section in which the Wells report eats its own tail. According to Wells, in a game between the Patriots and Jets it was discovered that the refs had inflated the balls to 16 psi. Brady got upset when he found them hard to handle. That’s how uneven ball inflation in the NFL is, and how weak the Wells report is. The only firm evidence that Brady ever had a conversation with anyone about ball pressure comes in this instance, when the ball was wildly over-inflated to 16 psi — by the league’s own refs.

....

I smell toast. And it ain't Patriots toast, either. Bob Kraft, it is becoming apparent, did what's called "stooping to conquer." He got out of the way in order for the Brady action to proceed--and the commish should be very worried, indeed. He tried to feed the public horsehit covered with maple syrup--and now the real stink is starting to rise.

The long game on this issue suggests that Brady and the Patriots will prevail. Read the whole article--it's elucidative.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Brady better be careful lest he gets Clintoned

If he gets deposed and said he had no knowledge of the balls being deflated and McNally and his associate testifies against him and his phone records are subpoenaed he exposes himself to a perjury charge...

In the other instances where these issues went to court it was the punishment that was challenged and not whether the offense the punishment was based on occurred.

[MADem]

15. Like I said, time will tell.

Those who are claiming this move by Kraft is "proof" aren't seeing the full picture.

I see Kraft's stepping back as strategic, in order to clear a path for Brady's petition to move forward in a timely fashion--i.e. before the start of next season.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Given everything that is in the public record...

Given everything that is the public record an attorney would be committing legal malpractice if he lets Tom Brady testify under oath.

[MADem]

18. He has hired a superb lawyer with whom he has worked previously on player dispute matters.

Like I said, time will tell.

[yeoman6987]

80. If I were Brady, I'd just take the four games.

Big deal. I heard it won't hurt his chances getting in the hall of fame so he should just sit out the four games and prepare for the next Super Bowl.

[lovemydog]

19. Robert Kraft is a piece of shit used car salesman.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. That's a bit harsh...

I don't believe he was aware of all the chicanery that was committed by his underlings.

[lovemydog]

21. I just thought I'd take the opportunity

to echo the words of one of the more vocal Patriots' homers here, who used those words to describe President Obama, lol.

I'm no Robert Kraft fan though. Whether or not he was aware of all this particular chicanery or not, a lot of chicanery has been going on for some time with that team. Spygate was a very serious matter. He certainly didn't fire the coach over that rampant cheating. In my humble football related opinion.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. I don't believe he had personal knowledge of Spy and Deflategate.

But that doesn't absolve him of responsibility.

[lovemydog]

24. As a fan of any team playing against the Patriots,

I prefer to think of Kraft as plotting, scheming and directly ordering up and then vehemently denying all the scandals involving that team. I know it's not rational. It's just fun.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. LOL

He would have to be out of his mind to order his subordinates to spy on opposing teams and tamper with the balls.

[cherokeeprogressive]

22. Squirrel! n/t

[PeteSelman]

26. Odd. They have even more of a case than Brady against this horseshit.

The team was completely exonerated in the Wells report.

Probably a trade off. Reduce or rescind the suspension in exchange for the money and picks.

[underpants]

27. Do they still have to give up the Super Bowl trophy?

Oh that's right, they were never going to have to give it up.



Oh I make me laugh. Remember how the wiped the field with the Colts and their caveman quarterback and then...and then sliced through the vaunted Seahawks D in the fourth quarter like someone had just pressed the bets.



Oh man. I can't wait to hear more comments from the NFL about the "integrity of the game". That's just an ironic icing on the cake.

[R B Garr]

33. The cheating is definitely worth it. The Pats never won a Super Bowl

with a respectable margin. Out of their four wins, they had a margin of 13 points: 3/3/3/4 point margins in the four games. So any edge they gained from using deflated balls was definitely worth it.

I saw Brady almost crying on the sidelines at the end of the Seahawks game when they were seconds away from losing again. Kind of puts the "sliced through the vaunted Seahawks D" in perspective. It was actually the other way around, but the Pats got lucky.

[MADem]

40. Bitter, bitter tears, there!

Funny--you'd think that a supposedly deflated ball would be easier to catch and intercept too...!

[R B Garr]

41. LMAO, or it could be bitter tears for the cheaters who have been

exposed AGAIN.

Hilarious watching a fan base be so humiliated yet still bitterly clinging to some bogus bragging rights.

And, yes, the deflated balls are obviously easier to play with, hence shady Brady's cheating.

[MADem]

42. I don't think you're laughing at all--it's obvious that you are furious at these turns of events.

And trying to flip the "bitter" theme--that's a clue, right there, that you are getting overly emotional over this topic. You're upset.

Again, if the ball is easier to throw, it should be easier to catch as well--so why didn't that favor all those failed interceptions?

When even the opposing team says that they could have played with frisbees or hockey pucks and it wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome of the game, I took that as evidence from an interested party that this was a tempest in a teapot--as it will turn out to be, I suspect.

But, as I've said, and I will keep saying, Time Will Tell!

[R B Garr]

44. Actually I just copied your silly smiley, and I don't even have a pro team

favorite. We watch individual players on various teams from their college years, some even from high school because my husband played high school football in Long Beach, CA (look up the movie, When the Game Stands Tall). He played against that Long Beach Poly school in his years. The Orange County Catholic schools are well-known for being fiercely competitive because they can recruit out of district, so serious high school players transfer to the Catholic schools to compete. He follows them through college and whatever pro team they may wind up in. Sometimes he just likes their college career -- think Troy Polamolu on the Steelers; we've been pulling for them for awhile. All kinds of teams, all different players. For some reason, never the Patriots, so far, anyway.

So that's how I watch pro occasionally only when there is an individual we like, and we pull for them. In this last Super Bowl, we liked Seattle because of Pete Carroll's association with a local university, University of Southern California.

So, NO, it is definitely YOU who is defensive and bitter. LOL, the Patriot fans are especially trippy and just laughably desperate to cling to the exposed false glory. Just admit they cheated, they got caught and move on. It's that simple.

[MADem]

45. If you read the thread you'd learn my POV on the game.

For someone who doesn't have a favorite, you sure have a team you love to hate!

I'll stay on the Time Will Tell team, but if I were betting, I wouldn't put a dime on Goodell.

[R B Garr]

46. Actually, all I've said is Brady could have ended this by cooperating,

but he didn't.

"That likely means he wants to see the texts and emails Brady wouldn’t forfeit to Ted Wells."
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-goodell-will-not-recuse-himself-from-brady-appeal/ar-BBk8AZO

[MADem]

48. I think once they lied about how accessible the ball boy was (and they did lie about that)

he figured he wasn't going to get a fair shake.

Also, I wouldn't trust some ass that had the Thank You For Smoking/asbestos doesn't harm auto workers team to keep my personal information safe. Lord only knows what was on his cellphone that was entirely unrelated to football but might be of a very personal nature--and he's going to hand that over to someone who was given an agenda to burn him (and that agenda has been pretty much admitted by the NFL commissioner)? Or to people who leaked FALSE information like a sieve? Screw that.


Goodell doesn’t answer question about media leaks

During Wednesday’s press conference that ended the quarterly ownership meeting in San Francisco, Tom Curran of CSN New England asked Commissioner Roger Goodell a pointed question regarding media leaks by the league during the #DeflateGate investigation.

In response, Goodell referred generally to the report generated by Ted Wells. When Curran followed with a specific question about the league’s leak of the false information that 11 of the 12 Patriots footballs were two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum, Goodell said that Ted Wells “had the opportunity to evaluate that.”

While Wells may have had the opportunity to evaluate whether the NFL deliberately leaked false PSI data, possibly to create an opening narrative of presumed tampering that would trigger a scorched-earth investigation of the Patriots, Wells didn’t address the topic at all in his report.

As noted by Mike Reiss of ESPN.com, Wells devoted only one paragraph to the notion that the investigation arose in whole or in part from an agenda against the Patriots. The 243-page document says nothing about whether Wells explored the leak of false information — a leak that likely led directly to the decision to bring in Wells for another multi-million-dollar probe....

It's starting to look like the NFL wanted to give other, underperforming teams the opportunity to win by trying to kneecap the team that did the hard work. The longer this goes on, the more that people who don't even particularly like the Patriots are acknowledging this. They're probably saying this because no one likes rule by decree, and arbitrary decision making, and they know that there but for the grace of talent and effort go they.

More at link. NFL is looking like idiots. This will probably end up in court, Goodell will end up on the stand, and he won't be a happy camper if it comes to that. Hope he's got another gig to go to, because he's being shown the exit and he doesn't apparently even realize it.

[R B Garr]

49. OMG, how ridiculous. Now the NFL is out to get the Patriots?? LOL

You're not going to like this. Kraft had a friend's company perform the "science", so that's why Kraft pulled out of the "appeal" -- because of the obvious shady looking relationship and how that would completely undermine their credibility.

"...as well as revelations that the scientist who conducted the research was co-founder of a pharmaceutical company Kraft had invested in."
Read more at http://www.steelersgab.com/2015/05/19/patriots-robert-kraft-seeks-to-end-rhetoric-over-deflategate-scandal/#14m4V16to0EJE055.99

All Brady had to do was cooperate. He could have had his electronic communications reviewed for only those items responsive to the report. That's it. Only what was responsive to the report. It's even been reported that Brady himself could have gone through the phone with his agent. END OF STORY. Cooperate with what was responsive to the report. That's it. Done. But he didn't want to do that.

Seriously, it's ridiculous to keep insisting the Patriots haven't been caught cheating. Just admit to it and move on. No wonder they are so ridiculed. I never paid that much attention to it before, but now I see why they are so laughed at.

If it makes you feel any better, I know you can just accept they've gotten a comeuppance and move on. We were big fans of USC when they were hit with sanctions by the NCAA for things that weren't really properly reported, mostly to do with Reggie Bush's parents who lived 150 miles away from campus and players supposedly having access to agents. The sanctions were so stiff because the USC admin failed to cooperate as fully as they should have. But you don't see people saying USC had every right to cheat and get away with it like some arrogant elitists who are somehow special above other teams. It was accepted and then dealt with.

Just accept that the Patriots got caught cheating. They've gotten away with it for years, and they got caught again. Accept this and move on. Very simple!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. Can you explain this to me.

If Team Brady takes this federal court wouldn't he have to testify under oath?

That would be a disaster.


In the other cases that were appealed to the federal court the severity of the punishment was appealed and not the misbehavior the punishment was based on.

[R B Garr]

51. I'm sure the Brady Bunch is doing whatever they can to keep

him from having to answer those inquiries about his text messages with the ball boy deflators.

I'm sure his legal team wants to baffle with bullshit about psi this or that, but his texts are what explain his involvement, and that's what the investigators were mostly interested in.

Yeah, I'm sure by taking it to court, he will not be held as accountable on some levels, which is why they are going that route. Is that what you meant by Brady testifying under oath being a disaster? I'm thinking he just wants to dilute the focus of the initial investigation and water it down with other bullshit that it takes attention away from his intent to circumvent the NFL rules by cheating. In other words, it's a 'look over there" type tactic to deflect attention away from the incriminating evidence.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. If they appeal it to a federal court I would assume he would have to answer this question under oath

If they appeal it to a federal court I would assume he would have to answer this question under oath:


Were you or were you not aware that the footballs were tampered with?



That's the gravamen of the NFL's case.

[R B Garr]

53. Yes, I think you're absolutely right.

And that's what shady Brady is trying to avoid, first by not cooperating with the investigation, and now by playing victim against the NFL in a different venue.

He's trying to make himself a victim to dilute the focus of that exact question you brought up.

Initially, I thought he was trying to force the NFL to cave to public scrutiny by making a spectacle of this in court, but with Kraft folding on his end of the appeal, it shows the NFL may have more evidence than is being reported, which made Kraft want out. I think trumad brought that up in an earlier post in this thread, and he made some excellent points, as do you about the lawsuit question.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. It reminds me of the Paula Jones Case that led to Clinton's impeachment.

Let me preface my remarks by saying I don't believe anything he did rose to an impeachable offense but there was likely a kernel of truth in Paula Jones' allegation. I believe he did make a pass but probably with encouragement. That doesn't rise to sexual harassment because for that to occur there must be a threat of reprisal or an actual reprisal for non compliance or repetitive misbehavior. That was absent.

He should have done what Kobe Bryant's attorneys did in his sexual assault case and agree to ambiguous language that alternately admitted and denied culpability to make it go away for cash.

Instead he allowed himself to be deposed and to have his affair with Monica Lewinsky disclosed that he best dissembled about.


Tom Brady should just let this go away lest he perjure himself

I'm not a lawyer...Maybe they can appeal without addressing the substance of the NFL's findings. That doesn't make sense.

[R B Garr]

62. "Tom Brady should just let this go away lest he perjure himself" Yes,

agreed, as their strategy isn't to prove he's innocent because cooperation could have done from the beginning.

Your comment about making it go away for cash: maybe they did that in a way by letting the ball boys go. Who knows what kind of severance agreements they received to keep them from talking. What a shame they had to be sacrificed to prop up Brady. I'm sure they liked and needed their jobs more than Brady needs some bogus bragging rights.

You made some great points all the way around.

[MADem]

63. I am not the one saying it. Read the papers.

I guess you missed the parts about how the Wells report was prepared by hatchet men who will invent shit to fit their client's wishes (Thank You For Smoking) and you also glossed over the bit where the NFL was leaking LIES ahead of the report. You'd trust them with YOUR cellphone full of personal material about yourself and your supermodel wife? I suppose if you don't HAVE a supermodel wife, that's a hard question to answer.

So, hey, whatever--I feel just fine, I base my opinions solely on the material I read with no desire for, or investment in, any particular outcome, ergo I don't need to feel "better" -- but you are sounding aggrieved; like you could use a cute animal:

[R B Garr]

64. No, you are sounding aggrieved. It's laughable that this all a hatchet job.

They got caught cheating and this is just their underhanded way of dealing with it. Fire employees to save Brady's ass and blame the messenger.

And it figures you would resort to the idiotic canard about Brady's wife. All the NFL wives are hot, so quit hiding behind that. There are entire websites dedicated to hot sports wives. She's hardly the only one. Who cares who Brady sleeps with. Good Lord. I think you've run out of excuses.

Pats got caught cheating AGAIN. Just deal with it. Brady could have been there when they went through his phone and shown only what was responsive. That would have cleared him. He didn't because he wants to hide something. End of story.

[MADem]

65. You are repeatedly trying to ascribe your emotions to me!

I'm not buying that, because that's not how I'm approaching this story at all.

All one has to do is look at your very dramatic and pique-laden (Cheating! Underhanded! Save Brady's ASS!!!! Idiotic canard!!! All the NFL wives are hot!!!!!! ) words to see that you're terribly invested in the outcome of this and you're furious that the resolution has not gone the way you'd hoped.

See, here's the deal-- I can read, and I see major discrepancies in the handling of this matter that are troubling in the extreme, and I'm not the only one--major, respected sports commenters who have no skin in the Pats game either have said the very same things I am saying -- but I'm on the Time Will Tell team, while you've made up your angry 'AGAIN....just deal with it!!!!" mind!

I think you have made your partisan, mind-made-up opinion clear on this subject, so there's nothing further to be gained from additional back-and-forth on this issue. One more time--my team is "Time Will Tell!"

I think you REALLY could use a picture of a cute animal, to lighten your mood!

[R B Garr]

66. lol, mostly what I've said is all in newspapers and sports websites

I've even linked to most of it. The most recent link was about Goddell not recusing himself from Brady's appeal. I quoted the part about Goddell wanting to see Brady's texts and electronic communications. You've tried to circle around that in any manipulative way you can to deflect from his failure to cooperate. If he cooperates and he is innocent, this all would have gone away. End of story.

You've made this personal by trying to pin being "aggrieved" on me, then bringing up Brady's wife as if that matters. Then the stupid animal picture. Etc. Really? How lame.

All Brady had to do was cooperate, but he didn't, and we all know why. Just deal with it.

[MADem]

67. In the comments section--written by you, I presume!

I guess you need another look at that kitty...

[R B Garr]

68. Yeah, this is a perfect example of your manipulations.

Sports websites have actual articles from actual newspapers. I've even linked to them. Here's how you can tell:

Google:
"Brady cheating"
"Kraft withdraws appeal"
"Patriots fire ball boys"
"Goodell not recusing himself"

Any combination of words about Patriots cheating will get you tons of actual articles about the reality of the situation about Brady not cooperating with a simple request from an investigation into him cheating.

Have fun, lol!

[MADem]

69. Now I'm "manipulating...?"

You have one of those real nice days, now!

[R B Garr]

70. Lame. Hey, maybe you can find a stupid picture to fit the word, "lame"

Knock yourself out.

Have you Googled my suggestions to find the newspaper articles and websites that address the actual issue which was linked to about 10 to 15 posts ago -- Brady failing to cooperate. Had Brady cooperated and he was innocent, none of this would be happening.

Enjoy!

[MADem]

71. No, and I'm not going to Google, either--I've made my views clear.

The fact that you keep digging down, goading, baiting, and whining, says all we need to know about your POV on this issue. You're really UPSET, and you want to keep fighting about it. Darn the bad luck for you!

How many times do I have to tell you I'm on the Time Will Tell team before it sinks in? You're really having trouble with that, I see.

Another cute animal for you--it's lame, too, like your protestations (just giving you what you asked for, after all).



Enjoy, yourself!

[R B Garr]

72. Again. I just posted links to actual articles about Gooddell not recusing himself

from the Brady appeal. You are the one taking that personally and going 'round the block with all manner of denials and excuses, Brady's wife even gets a go with your excuses.

And look at your words now: goading, chiding, whining. What a hypocrite with your last posts.

[MADem]

73. No, that's not 'just' what you did--anyone reading this thread can see what you've said, here.

But I simply don't care--as I said, I am on the TIME WILL TELL team. I can wait for this story to play out.

You're on the HANG 'EM HIGH team--and you're furious that your perception of "justice" hasn't happened. Poor you!

[R B Garr]

74. LMAO! Now I'm furious. In your dreams.

You're the one who is furious.

LOL.

And it's not "my perception" of justice -- I linked to what was actually said by the actual people involved. It's just a matter of fact that Brady didn't cooperate and the situation is what it is. If Brady had cooperated, this would not be happening. End of story.

[MADem]

75. There ya go again, goading, baiting, and wailing!

Ascribing your rather close-to-the-surface emotions to me, yet again.

I have no "dreams" -- unlike you, apparently, with your dreams of retribution and revenge.

I told you, I'm on the TIME WILL TELL team.

You just can't stand that, is that it? That I'll wait for the situation to play out before coming to a conclusion?

Sorry--and as Walter C. used to say...and THAT's the way it is!


"End of Story!"

[R B Garr]

76. LOL, now *my* emotions are "close to the surface"...

Anything to deflect from the FACT that Brady refused to cooperate which led to his suspension. Had Brady cooperated, none of this would be happening. Those are the facts, but you can try to make it about personal things -- it's all you have.

[MADem]

78. Not just now--throughout this exchange! They're your very own emotional words! Own them!

That's a "fact," if it's "facts" you want!

[R B Garr]

79. In your dreams. And now with more stupid pictures.

The stupid pictures are kind of the clue you're the emotional one. Puppies. You Google puppies. Uh huh.

[MADem]

82. Ooooh, touchy, touchy, now! Anger! The "stupid" word!

Someone needs a hug!

[R B Garr]

83. Here's your post #40 where you started getting emotional:

"Bitter, bitter tears, there!





Funny--you'd think that a supposedly deflated ball would be easier to catch and intercept too...!"

That was in response to a post I made about the cheating being worth it for the reasons I stated. Obviously shady Brady thinks the same thing, because instead of cooperating, he filed an appeal to deflect from his failure to cooperate. That was about 20 posts ago, and you want to make it about emotions and puppies. LOL.

[MADem]

84. Nooooo....those weren't MY bitter tears! They were yours!

You just can't, and don't, manage very well at this.

I do admire your relentless, if pointless, pluck in the face of impossible obstacles, though!

[R B Garr]

85. I copied what you wrote, which was about emotions. Tears even.

You wrote it, your words. LOL, now you're declaring yourself some kind of victor with little cute snittys about my posting abilities. So no more puppies?

[MADem]

86. Yes--your emotions. Your tears!

You're having a tough day, obviously--you didn't read your link (ouch--that really had to hurt), and now we learn you didn't even read the posts you're quoting.

You want more puppies? Here ya go:

[R B Garr]

87. They were your words about emotions. They came through you,

from your interpretations or misinterpretations about something. Hence my previous posts about that being manipulative. I think that's about the time you switched to puppies. Remember?

[MADem]

88. Yes--YOUR emotions, angst, agita and anger. That "came through you." I just noticed it.

You are having trouble, aren't you? So sorry, wish there was something that I could tell you that would help....I'd say joining the TIME WILL TELL team might be a plan, but you're too busy getting emotional to do that and posting links that don't say what you want them to say (gotta read past those headlines, old sport). Oh, well!



I'm off to a party...I'll have to catch up with your latest visceral reactions a bit later. Ta-ta for now....

[R B Garr]

89. My posts had excerpts from actual articles about the actual situation.

Not about your bogus manipulations and misinterpretations about someone's emotions on the internet, which is obviously a ploy to deflect attention away from the fact that Brady didn't cooperate with an investigation and would rather file an appeal to try and make Goodell cower instead of just cooperating from the beginning.

When I said that initially some 20 to 25 posts ago, your response was about "bitter tears". Those would actually be your bitter tears.

So the visceral reactions would be yours, as evidenced with you diversion to puppies. So lame.

[MADem]

91. Yeah...but you didn't read the article. You counted on the headline, and it let you down!

[R B Garr]

92. Nope, the excerpt matched. As did the headline. Here you go again:

http://nesn.com/2015/05/report-roger-goodell-rejects-request-to-recuse-himself-from-tom-bradys-appeal/

"Goodell said at the NFL Spring Meeting earlier this week that he wants to get the discipline “right” if the Patriots quarterback can bring any new information that wasn’t included in the Wells Report. That likely means he wants to see the texts and emails Brady wouldn’t forfeit to Ted Wells."

[MADem]

93. You can go look at the quote I provided to you before in post 81, again.

I'm not going to keep repeating the same thing to you, over and over, because you're having trouble taking the point.

[R B Garr]

94. You're the one who made this personal playing clueless about

what I was referencing in relation to Brady not cooperating. OBVIOUSLY, it's wait and see. That's not the point, lol. Obviously Tom is going to try and get one over with his union and of course he's going to try and get Gooddell to submit to his will. That's what I meant by the underhanded way he's dealing with it. Cheat and then cry foul when punishment is imposed. What a joke!

And I got a huge kick out of the Boston papers and the emotional claptrap "bitter feelings" that people actually read in your papers. The national stuff and even websites I read are not that desperate or emotional.

[MADem]

95. Post 81! Do give it a read!!

Your links don't say what you want them to say....

"Emotional claptrap" -- see what you focus on? The Washington Post and ESPN aren't "Boston papers" but keep getting "emotional," there, if it helps you...

[R B Garr]

96. BostonHerald: "bitter feelings" LMAO.

"The bitter feelings around Tom Brady’s suspension continued to escalate yesterday as the NFL Players Association took aim at Roger Goodell."
https://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2015/05/report_roger_goodell_wont_yield_in_tom_bradys

Your Post No. 40
"Bitter, bitter tears, there!

Now I see where you got your "emotional" talking points. LOL. the Boston papers are feeding your little emotional ditties about the Patriots. Oh, and there's a whine in that article about Brady not being treated "fair." Waaa, Tom not being treated fair. LMAO.

[MADem]

97. I'm going to keep sending you back to post 81, there, sport!

You really are proving my point--that you are overly and emotionally invested in this matter. I'm afraid there's no room for you on the Time Will Tell team!

[R B Garr]

98. Uh huh. There wasn't any reason for you to kick this thread again

late today except for your childish need to pin something on me that your own manipulative post 40 started for no reason whatsoever. Now I see where your emotional ditties come from, your own BostonHerald. LMAO. Let's take another look at how the bitterness comes from your own head. This is going on about 30 posts now. What a joke.


"The bitter feelings around Tom Brady’s suspension continued to escalate yesterday as the NFL Players Association took aim at Roger Goodell." B\
https://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2015/05/report_roger_goodell_wont_yield_in_tom_bradys

Your Post No. 40
"Bitter, bitter tears, there!

Now I see where you got your "emotional" talking points. LOL. the Boston papers are feeding your little emotional ditties about the Patriots. Oh, and there's a whine in that article about Brady not being treated "fair." Waaa, Tom not being treated fair. LMAO.

[MADem]

99. TLDR, Post 81!!!

[R B Garr]

100. Awww. so much bitter in your world. Look again:

"The bitter feelings around Tom Brady’s suspension continued to escalate yesterday as the NFL Players Association took aim at Roger Goodell."
https://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2015/05/report_roger_goodell_wont_yield_in_tom_bradys

Your Post No. 40
"Bitter, bitter tears, there!

Now I see where you got your "emotional" talking points. LOL. the Boston papers are feeding your little emotional ditties about the Patriots. Oh, and there's a whine in that article about Brady not being treated "fair." Waaa, Tom not being treated fair. LMAO.

[MADem]

101. TLDR, Post 81!!!

Here's another cute animal:



Hope you get a handle on your concerns, there!

[R B Garr]

102. Awww, so much bitter in your world, and the BostonHerald confirms it:

"The bitter feelings around Tom Brady’s suspension continued to escalate yesterday as the NFL Players Association took aim at Roger Goodell."
https://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2015/05/report_roger_goodell_wont_yield_in_tom_bradys

Your Post No. 40
"Bitter, bitter tears, there!

Now I see where you got your "emotional" talking points. LOL. the Boston papers are feeding your little emotional ditties about the Patriots. Oh, and there's a whine in that article about Brady not being treated "fair." Waaa, Tom not being treated fair. LMAO.

[R B Garr]

90. LMAO, I see where you're hung up on "bitter" From BostonHerald:

"The bitter feelings around Tom Brady’s suspension continued to escalate yesterday as the NFL Players Association took aim at Roger Goodell."

https://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2015/05/report_roger_goodell_wont_yield_in_tom_bradys

LOL, so the BostonHerald writes about "bitter feelings" and you have to run to the internet to try and browbeat someone with it yourself. What a cesspool of emotional writing from those Boston papers going back days. No wonder some of you people are in such denial. The rest of the sports writers/reporting about this is much more objective.

And the Boston papers confirm that the appeal is really just a bitter payback to try a squeeze play on harming Gooddel, which is pretty much what I've been saying some 25 to 30 posts ago.

No wonder you switched to puppies.

[R B Garr]

77. Report: Roger Goodell Rejects Request To Recuse Himself From Tom Brady's Appeal

I'm reposting this, which is where you came in when you started making this personal for no reason, lol:

"Goodell said at the NFL Spring Meeting earlier this week that he wants to get the discipline “right” if the Patriots quarterback can bring any new information that wasn’t included in the Wells Report. That likely means he wants to see the texts and emails Brady wouldn’t forfeit to Ted Wells."
http://nesn.com/2015/05/report-roger-goodell-rejects-request-to-recuse-himself-from-tom-bradys-appeal/

[MADem]

81. And he'll end up in court. What's your point?

That's not a "gotcha." You apparently haven't been following along, or even been reading your OWN links....poor you!

Here, since you didn't bother--let me help you with a quote from YOUR OWN link:

Roger Goodell wants to be the judge, jury and executioner in Tom Brady’s suspension appeal. According to CBS Sports’ Jason La Canfora, the NFL rejected the NFL Players Association’s request that Goodell recuse himself as arbitrator in Brady’s appeal. However, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said Friday that no decision has been made on whether Goodell will recuse himself from the appeal.

NFL Media’s Ian Rapoport further explained the situation via Twitter: NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith said Friday on ESPN that the union would “increase the volume” of their request if Goodell didn’t respond by the end of next week. It’s unclear what steps the NFLPA will take if the league officially rejects its motion. A rejected motion likely would increase the chances that Brady’s appeal winds up in court, where anything could happen.

Read more at: http://nesn.com/2015/05/report-roger-goodell-rejects-request-to-recuse-himself-from-tom-bradys-appeal/

And you missed that tweet, right in the middle of your little article, too! You know, the one that said:


https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/601856892474789888

Explaining discrepancy: Technically, Goodell hasn’t made it official. His lawyers submitted paperwork stating his view to not recuse himself


You might want to switch sides, and join the TIME WILL TELL team, too....



Your "proof" isn't saying what you want it to say. Darn the bad luck!

Now, continue on, if you must, with more dramatic verbiage and all-caps "FACT!" I still won't be moved. Particularly if you keep posting links like that beaut~!

[panader0]

43. The Broncos are the true Super Bowl champs

Everyone else cheated.

[Whiskeytide]

47. A deal was made...

... Pats don't appeal, Brady's suspension is reduced or waived. Bank it.

[MannyGoldstein]

103. As a Pats fan, albeit not a rabid one

1. It's pretty likely that something was going on
2. It's pretty likely that Brady knew

[Gothmog]

104. Brady is still appealing

Kraft made the right call