FBI investigating whether Amtrak train was hit by an object. Another train in the area was.

[Are_grits_groceries]

The National Transportation Safety Board has asked the FBI to examine window damage to determine whether an Amtrak train was hit by an object before it derailed in Philadelphia, the latest step after investigators on Friday questioned the engineer, who said he could not recall details of the crash.

Safety board member Robert Sumwalt said investigators asked the FBI to examine what appears to be circular damage in the left-hand lower portion of the Amtrak train’s windshield. No projectile was found inside the locomotive, he said.

An unnamed assistant conductor in the cafe car told investigators of a radio conversation she heard between Brandon Bostian, the engineer of the Amtrak train, and another engineer in a regional commuter train. The local engineer said the train had been “hit by a rock or shot at,” Sumwalt said. The unidentified assistant conductor told investigators that she thought she heard Bostian say his train had also been struck.

According to Andrew Busch, a spokesman for the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA), which operates the local trains, there was an incident involving a damaged windshield to one of its trains on Tuesday night, when the Amtrak derailment occurred.
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More:http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-amtrak-derailed-train-philadelphia-20150515-story.html

I remember when I first read the story, there was a mention of another train being hit by something. I wondered why they weren't bringing that up.
I guess they were busy sorting out the basics and that was not on their minds. I'm glad they are looking into this.

[malaise]

1. PCIntern raised this on Wednesday

Scary if it's true

[Are_grits_groceries]

2. True

At least it may answer some odd questions or point them in a direction to find answers.
I brought it up because until now I hadn't heard much more about it.
In addition, this may help absolve the conductor. If he is truly innocent, this may be his best chance to avoid punishment.

[Ilsa]

3. But being hit wouldn't have caused acceleration to

Twice the recommended speed on the curve, would it? Isn't the speed the cause of the derailment?

[MH1]

4. Rachel described the scenario that came to my mind immediately.

If the "projectile" hit the engineer or startled him so badly that he bumped the throttle and didn't realize it in time to recover.

I heard some expert (Amtrak or former Amtrak I think) talk about this possibility and what he said I would sum up as "far-fetched, highly unlikely, but not impossible - let's see what investigation reveals".

I tend to agree. So far there's been no evidence at all to suggest the engineer had any reason to do this intentionally. Maybe he was under the influence of something, and if so that will come out. But everything that's been reported about him suggests he really isn't the type. Maybe he just screwed up, without outside help ... that's what the "positive train control" system is supposed to prevent.

I think, if it is found that something definitely did hit the window right in front of him, that would have to be assumed to at least be a contributor to whatever happened subsequently.

Also, I don't know if we know what his injuries were. Is it possible that the "projectile" was a bullet, and he was hit, but the bullet didn't stay in his body so no one even considered the possibility that was the cause of some of his injuries? I'm sure investigators are considering this.

[Mariana]

5. In most cases, I'd expect the doctors

to recognize a gunshot wound when they see one. But here, I suppose it's possible something grazed him and the injuries caused by the wreck obscured it.

[MH1]

7. That's exactly what I'm thinking.

In North Philadelphia, it's not at all far-fetched to think that a "projectile" might have been a bullet, and if it grazed him then he might have been stunned and not recovered in time.

It's all speculative of course, but in the absence of any other explanation, it's as likely as anything.

[B2G]

9. Except he was accelerating for a full minute before the turn

70 - 106MPH.

He was not shot. And if it was a bullet that didn't hit him, there will be evidence of that.

[MH1]

13. "there will be evidence of that" -- yes there will be.

We'll see what the investigation turns up. I don't think anyone was even considering the possibility initially, so they weren't specifically looking for that evidence. Now they know SOMETHING hit the windshield, they will be trying to find out what it was.

Also it turns out the engineer had reason to be fatigued, even if he claims he wasn't.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/15/amtrak-engineer-was-frazzled-by-prior-route.html

For the train to accelerate like that, either something weird happened that made the engine do it on its own and the engineer didn't catch it, or whatever happened caused the engineer to bump the throttle and not recover even over a full minute, or for some other reason the engineer was speeding up drastically going into a sharp curve - an engineer who had the training and experience to know what that would do, if he was fully in possession of his faculties. But no one has brought forward any evidence that this guy was suicidal or anything like that (unlike what happened in the German Wings crash). So the last option is as unlikely as any other, in my book. That leaves "under the influence" but again, nothing at all has come forward to indicate this guy was like that.

[B2G]

18. Thanks for posting that link

First I've heard of this...very interesting.

The took his blood for tox screens, so they should find something if that's the cause. They are also looking at his phone records, so if he was using it, it should be pretty easy to find out.

Right now I'm leaning towards fatigue and/or distraction, but I do believe we'll find out soon.

[R B Garr]

11. CNN had reps on this morning saying he was in an 80 MPH area and

was supposed to be slowing for the 50 MPH turn coming up, which didn't happen.

The difference from 80 MPH to 106 MPH is obviously not as much a difference as accelerating to literally twice the speed from 50 to 106 MPH, so I can see how this might explain how even a brief distraction could have had these results.

Interesting turn of events.

[MH1]

15. Yes, that's a good point. STILL, accelerating vs. decelerating into a curve like that

is a pretty drastic mistake, and therefore not likely just a mistake.

I hope the investigation turns up enough evidence to reach a solid conclusion as to what really happened.

[Are_grits_groceries]

6. They now say that 2 trains in the area were hit by something.

Whatever happened, I don't think it's a coincidence that a derailment occurred. If it was hit, there may have been some unusual chain of events.

[MH1]

8. And it turns out the engineer had short rest after a difficult prior run.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/15/amtrak-engineer-was-frazzled-by-prior-route.html

[jwirr]

10. With two incidents in the same area it does sound like that may be the answere. And IMO it

sounds more realistic if it is a shot.

[B2G]

12. It someone shot at the train, there will be evidence of that. nt

[MH1]

14. Just curious -- what evidence? The bullet?

What if they don't find it?

I wonder, in what percentage of crimes involving shots fired, are all the bullets / casings / whatever recovered?

Or are you thinking of some other kind of evidence?

[R B Garr]

16. One of the reps on CNN was an ex-engineer who talked about bricks

and all kinds of other objects that he encountered being thrown at the passing trains. He said some stretches are more known for that type of thing than others (sometimes groups of juveniles in an area, etc.) It was an interesting panel of people on this morning, and that engineer offered a lot of information and knew that curve.

But as you said upthread, he still was accelerating, although not as much as originally thought, so hopefully the investigation will uncover how and why that happened.

[B2G]

17. I would think a bullet would leave a much different signature

in the glass then say, a rock. And the cab of the train is a pretty small, confined area. I would think it wouldn't be too difficult to find.

But I'm not an investigator.

[R B Garr]

20. The engineer on CNN said something hitting the cab sounds like

an explosion and is extremely alarming. They showed pictures of the train with the shattered glass, but they weren't close up, so you couldn't see the details. I doubt they would reveal that so early in the investigation, anyway.

[1939]

19. Getting "rocked"

Is a frequent occurrence with trains passing through urban areas on the northeast corridor.