General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums‘We’re Going to Be Out of Water’: Navajo Nation Dying of Thirst
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/04/09/were-going-be-out-water-navajo-nation-dying-thirst-159948When youre living in the desert, you dont expect it to get even worse, said Russell Begaye, a Navajo Nation Tribal Council Delegate from Shiprock, NM. He pointed out that reservoir levels are dropping, farming plots are becoming sandier, and the rain- and snowfall have declined.
Some of our leaders, and some of our people concerned about environmental issues are trying to make people aware, he said. It's going to get progressively worse, we know that. But as a nation, the government, we are simply not ready.
According to the most recent national climate change assessment, southwestern tribessuch as the Navajoare among the most vulnerable to impacts from climate change. Published two years ago, that study notes that Navajo elders have noticed declines in snowfall, surface water and water supplies. Certain sacred springs, medicinal plants, and animals have disappeared or declined and dust storms have increased. And while scientists cant say for sure at this point that extreme weather is tied to climate change, theres no doubt that the past two years have been challengingand expensive.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)After approximately 1150, North America experienced significant climatic change in the form of a 300-year drought called the Great Drought.[citation needed] This also led to the collapse of the Tiwanaku civilization around Lake Titicaca in present-day Bolivia.[23] The contemporary Mississippian culture also collapsed during this period. Confirming evidence is found in excavations of the western regions of the Mississippi Valley between 1150 and 1350, which show long-lasting patterns of warmer, wetter winters and cooler, drier summers.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)the idea of immigration open as an answer.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)Of course this is much worse and wider spread but there have been areas completely abandoned as weather changed.
Thjis is just faster and affects a much wider area.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)http://revolution-green.com/fog-catchers/
The Fog Catchers
... Developed over the past 5 years on the Canary Islands by Hernando Theo Olmo and Ricardo Gil, the Water Gardens are groupings of water-extracting towers for high volume and high quality water. Some of the planned uses are for forests, camping, fire suppression, agriculture, livestock, and human consumption.
According to the website; After years of experimentation and improvement, our NRP 3.0 fog collectors are currently the most technically advanced and productive in the world in the last 50 years in this sector, with a maximum collection of 1,074 liters / day and a life of more than 10 years.
The NRP 3.0 fog collector, have a huge collecting surface of 56 m2 into minimum space, only 1.6 m2, thus reducing the area occupied by 90% and minimizing the visual impact. Its three-dimensional structure gives great stability and prevents the loss of water out of the structure and also minimizes the influence of the wind direction in production of water. It also has a base designed to decant and filter the water before it passes to the tube system.
The materials used give the NRP 3.0 high strength, low weight and high durability.
Due to the rate cost-production, this system allows us to consider definitely the mists as another water resource, complementary to the existing resources, and this, in a practical, cost-effective, sustainable and innovative. Water from the mist can be used for qualitative and quantitative improvement of the waters from another origin, which can also help to reduce transportation costs, pumping or treatment of these, saving energy and minimizing pollution.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)In winter, the drought-stricken Central Valley is often blanketed by tule fog so thick it routinely causes pileups on I-5.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)and research in recent years, so you may see California begin to implement setups. The "Revolution Green" link depicts some collector towers 200 meters tall! That's a design that was proposed for coastal Chile. While they also have earthquakes, I don't know what kind of engineering would have to go into such a structure for California's quakes.
Still, there are plenty of ways to harvest atmospheric water, and it's about time we started implementing them
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)and the collectors wouldn't crumble the way unreinforced masonry buildings do. The engineers would just have to anchor them solidly enough that they wouldn't fall over.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)As I've never lived in any earthquake-prone areas, I don't really understand the engineering needs. We don't get ground-shaking issues here (Houston) but we do have to contend with high winds from hurricanes on occasion. We're also pretty wet these days, so probably don't have to worry about water issues for a while.
I thought it interesting in that article that they did some of their research in the Atacama Desert in Chile. It's one of the driest deserts in the world. If they can collect fog-water there, then it can be done pretty much anywhere
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Since fog is rare there.
Chauvet Hurricane 700 Fog Machine
Hekate
(90,714 posts)It would be great if something could be done with that
erronis
(15,302 posts)To fund their exhorbitant lifestyles. As long a politics/money rules the ability to build temporary solutions to our long-term changes, the non-rich West will be sucked dry.
AndyTiedye
(23,500 posts)It's still green here, because the redwoods capture a lot of the moisture from the fog and drip it onto the ground.
The Central Valley has fog, but redwoods don't grow there, perhaps some of these devices could help with the drought.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)but it does make sense, considering their foliage and height
I do hope someone out there has looked into these devices. I feel like we should contact the Navajo Nation and let them know about the technology, if they aren't already aware...
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Annual days of heavy fog in Winslow, Arizona, annually:
(wait for it): 4
and that doesn't mean 4 full days either.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)I'm still going to go with the fact that this technology was tested in the driest non-polar desert in the world and found to be viable. I suspect the people that know this stuff far more deeply than either of us can see that there's potential no matter where you are in the world.
Why see only the negative for something that is a simple and cost-effective water-gathering technology? I don't see your point for being that way all the time.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)The answer is no. Can we agree on that?
Ugh you are maddening. The device is called a FOG CATCHER.
For Pete's sake, are you even reading what you're talking about?
YOU NEED FOG! Part of the Atacama have fog.
Does the Colorado Plateau have fog? No.
I swear if you send a fog collector to an area that has fog that will be received negatively.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)Not all water vapor is visible as "fog."
However, I don't see a reason in arguing about this. I see it as a viable technology no matter where you are in the world, because all air has water vapor in it. Go ahead and throw a conniption fit over me being optimistic about this. I may still contact the Navajo Nation about it and see what their take on it is. I doubt I'll get the kind of reaction you're giving me here in GD (General Detraction.)
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Our fog collection technology has many applications and can provide clean water in parts of the world where conventional sources are unavailable. But one must have fog and light winds, not merely high humidities or haze. Fog is composed of tiny liquid droplets. These are blown by the wind and impact on the fibers of a specially chosen mesh. Normally, visibilities should be less than 100 meters for successful fog collection.
http://www.fogquest.org/?page_id=9
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)you don't need to be a scientist to respond to reason, but for some reason you're digging in here.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)They are in a desert and not a foggy one.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)you'll see it was tested for twenty years in Chile's Atacama Desert. That's the driest non-polar desert in the world. So, if they can make this technology work there, then the Navajo can make it work in their desert conditions
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)the Navajo Nation, does NOT.
now I told you how often Winslow, Arizona gets fog. is that registering?
they didn't test the devices in areas with no fog or mists.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)would you stop dismissing scientific explanations:
In the village of Chungungo, human residents now take advantage of the same camanchaca that their botanical neighbors have so successfully exploited. Thanks to Canada's International Development Research Centre and the Canadian Embassy in Santiago, a decade ago the villagers began to gather water using an ingenious system of nets that catch the fog as it rolls over the mountains above their homes. Constructed from a very fine mesh, the nets hang vertically above a series of troughs. As the fog condenses on the nets' surfaces, moisture drips into troughs; pipes then carry the water down to the village. Residents of Chungungo can now take pride in their gardens; they can shower daily. The fog-catchers supply the village with an average of 2,600 gallons (10,000 liters) of water every day.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0308/feature3/
jwirr
(39,215 posts)be a solution for them. Anyone know if their is deep ground water there?
Call those "Trees" in the Coast Range of Oregon.
And they collect a significant amount of precipitation on their needles during foggy days. The water drips to the ground and nourishes the forest here. It turns out to be a significant amount of water on the Pacific (west) side during the summer months. Unfortunately I can't recall the exact amount, but perhaps a few hundredths of an inch of rain a day.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)A fracking operation consumes several million gallons of water just for one go. What's left is toxic and useless for human (or other) use. Due to depletion in the process, it can't even be recycled into the fracking operation efficiently.
This is not the sole cause of water loss, of course, but it's a component.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)The Navajo don't have enough money to buy a politician so they have little chance at fighting for the right to water. This will only get worse globally and will probably lead to mass migration. Nations will try and stop the mass migrations, but when you are literally dying of thirst you will risk your life to cross a nation's border.
randr
(12,412 posts)The degree to which the pollution is evident as one travels across this land is astonishing. You can see large masses of brown "clouds" lying at ground level. Where once you could see for a hundred miles or more you can see no further that 20 miles on a good day.
Add to this the enormous methane cloud that NASA has discovered around the four corners area and you have a picture of the worst health conditions in our nation. Large methane production, the Four Corners coal burning power plants, and open pit strip mining operations in a relatively small area can only have one result.
For all this "modern energy" infrastructure the population is still, for the most part, living in poverty levels not seen anywhere else in America.
The image in my mind from the anti-pollution campaign of a Native American shedding a tear at the sight does not come close to the current horror of the situation at hand.