Hey Jenner "skeptics" I gots somethin' for ya. How about the words of a fellow LGBT person?

[cherokeeprogressive]

A few people here know that almost 24 years ago my then Wife gave birth to a beautiful baby girl who, in 2007, came out to me as a Lesbian. I was so proud of her boldness and bravery that I posted about it on DU the very next day.

Subsequent to coming out, she came to understand that she wasn't gay at all; but rather a straight male in a female body (understand that I only use the female pronoun to illustrate the timeline).

In the interim, I've come to DU to ask questions about things I'd previously had no exposure to and almost every time have been accused of everything from stupidity to naivete to outright bigotry by the knee-jerkers here. I digress...

My child, once Allison but now emotionally and legally identifying as Charlie has chosen to embark on a path that will someday soon result in my having the Son I've always wanted. What a momentous decision. He's chosen to expose himself to everything from stupidity to naivete to outright bigotry. He made this decision to take that on in the interest of living a happy life, secure in his own identity. It's pretty much the bravest fucking decision I've ever seen anyone make.

Anyway, here's what my Son Charlie posted on his Facebook page last night:

"I have not watched Bruce Jenner's interview yet, but before any of you read/watch it and decide to make a comment -- please realize that any speculation you have over the "authenticity" of Jenner's coming out, or actually if you have any comment at all other than support, is nothing but offensive, ignorant, dehumanizing, and malicious to Jenner, and to transwomen in general. It hurts me, and disappoints me, to hear people I consider friends make virtually no effort to understand or accept Jenner as the identity they have come out with. So if you have anything other than support to add to the conversation, please do not speak of it while I am around, and please ask yourself why you would accept me as the man that I am, but not accept Jenner for the woman that they are."

Is my Son smart or what? What I've read on DU over the last 36 hours has PERFECTLY illustrated which argument about LGBT is correct... genetics or choice? Who in their right fucking mind would, as my Son and Bruce Jenner have, CHOOSE to expose themselves to such hateful and hurtful bullshit?

Those coming here to post about Jenner's "authenticity" are making the claim that this person is, for the rest of their life, trading happiness and security for coin. For making that claim, I call you bigots at worst, and either stupid or naive at best.

One last thing before I go: Make no mistake about one thing... I'd stand in front of a speeding bus with my arms spread and my eyes open if it meant keeping my Son from harm. Politicians? Not on your fucking life.

[nolabear]

1. There are people who dare usurp his right to claim his body and soul?

Jesus Baldheaded Christ, the hubris.

[pnwmom]

18. This is the outburst from a longstanding DUer posting in a thread with people who seem to have all been blinded

by the fact that he also came out as a Republican.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6566221

He's a woman and he's known this for decade and has even done some things to help transition including some hormone, hair removal and other things.

Yet we are still calling him Bruce Jenner and we are still using male pronouns? Is this normal?

Maybe it's me but I see this as a PUBLICITY STUNT

[Scootaloo]

38. I don't think you have a whole lot of room to criticize, pwnmom

Some reminders:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022677428 - Your demanding to know statistics on trans women who pee standing up
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022951675 - Your underhanded attempt to equate trans women to pervs with hidden cameras
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022482603 - a direct equation of trans women with pervy or dangerous men
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6215099 - your "Sympathy" for Bruce Jenner seems coincidentally timed with him suddenly being in the spotlight...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026325346#post90 - your argument that trans women are sexual predators that target children - the rests of your posts on that thread are pretty informative, too.

I mean if you've turned over a new leaf, that's great, and welcome aboard, but... well... My links are the tip of an iceberg...

[pnwmom]

39. I wasn't advocating against transgender people in any of those posts.

My question is how to keep straight, violent men out of women's bathrooms while allowing all women, including transgender women, in.

And instead of addressing that question you keep insisting that I'm afraid of transgender women.


http://nypost.com/2015/04/14/woman-attacked-raped-in-bathroom-of-gramercy-bar/

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2015/02/woman-sexually-assaulted-in-bathroom-at-point-north-park-in-richardson.html/

http://www.cityoftaylor.com/content/man-charged-sexual-assault-store-police-urge-caution-when-using-public-restrooms

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Surveillance-Video-Shows-Man-in-Barbie-Costume-Enter-Bathroom--270789091.html

[marym625]

41. FYI

Bruce Jenner asked to be referred to as he/him until he emerges as "she." That when she comes out publicly, she will reveal her name. That the interview is the last time we will see Bruce Jenner

So at least for many of us, we are respecting his wishes

[pnwmom]

48. I understand that. The poster I linked to did not. n/t

[marym625]

52. Sorry. misunderstood

[beam me up scottie]

72. Holy shit!

Thank you for those, I had no idea we had a terf here.

[cherokeeprogressive]

49. "Is this normal?" Please define, in your own words, what SHOULD be normal for Bruce Jenner.

[pnwmom]

53. Those weren't my words. They were words from another DUer, an example I gave

of the posts yesterday that weren't supportive of Jenner.

And my answer to the poster was there was no norm or standard involved.

I asked her to please not call this a publicity stunt without even watching it. And I said:

And "we" are using the male pronouns because that is what Bruce Jenner is comfortable with at this point in his transitioning. He hasn't yet taken a new name either. Why should we judge him for following his own timeframe on this?

I think it is very unfair to disparage him this way without even seeing the interview. And there is no "normal" or "standard" about how, when, or where any transgender person is on his or her path.

[cherokeeprogressive]

62. My sincere apology. n/t

[pnwmom]

66. cherokeeprogressive, I applaud you for your unswerving support of your child

and I can see how you misunderstood. I should have put the quote within quotation marks. Hopefully it's clearer now.

[cherokeeprogressive]

74. Crystal. And I feel like (felt like) an ass for posting what I did. n/t

[pnwmom]

77. You should just feel proud of yourself as a parent. But speaking of Jenner,

I think in the long run it might actually help that he came out as a conservative and Republican. It will be much harder for those people to dismiss him now that he's identified himself as one of them. Here he is, this great "family man" with all these beautiful kids who obviously adore him, and yet he's been silently struggling with this challenge for almost all his life.

I think he's shown great courage and wish him all the best.

P.S. Did you watch the interview? Perhaps my favorite moment was when his son said that he had always been so proud to acknowledge to people that, yes, he was the son of the Olympic athlete, Bruce Jenner. But he was even prouder of his dad now.

And I loved it when his 89 year old mother showed up, too.

[cherokeeprogressive]

78. I did see that. Made me misty.

I thought it was wild; I closed my eyes and he sounded exactly like his dad.

[hunter]

71. LGBT people have as much right to be Republicans as anyone else...

... people is people. Venal and stupid is a human right.

I don't get it, but as an autistic spectrum human being many groups other people accept as their own "community" are a complete mystery to me.

For example, I've never understood most sports.

People will pay a cable or satellite television company to watch sports? Really?

I don't get that. I don't pay for television, I don't even watch free broadcast television. Our television is a commercial free movie player, many thrift store video cassettes and DVDs, occasionally something Red Box, or movies my wife buys. I have zero interest in "pirating" anything -- not music, not movies, not software. My Windows 98SE and Macintosh 68xx software is all legit, emulated now, so sue me. The machines, disks, and original licensed software still reside in my garage.

I guess my own "sports" are Open Source Software and Organic Gardening. Participation in those sports is free, and even when nobody else in the world is noticing my work, I still get to enjoy the fruits of my own own labors.

[marble falls]

92. A publicity stunt????? Thats so close to hate speech.

[marym625]

95. +1

[marym625]

3. This is so beautiful

This is the best post I have ever seen on DU.

How lucky your son is to have you. How lucky you are to have your son.

Heartwarming and yet, it ripped me apart. Were this so for everyone, what a better world we would have

[polichick]

4. Happy to k&r!

[riderinthestorm]

5. Kudos to you as well cherokeeprogressive! Your son is an amazing man!

Wise, courageous and a true role model.

[gwheezie]

6. what perplexes me is

Why people think there's some kind of script to follow to transition? People follow their own path and it is real. So there are a bunch of people who have absolutely no experience with this invalidating Jenners reality because there's some stereotype of what is acceptable.

[marym625]

42. +1000

[tblue37]

7. KnR. I have been astonished to see Jenner's gender authenticity questioned on DU. I

expected to see such ignorance elsewhere, and perhaps I would not have been surprised by one or two such comments even here, but I have seen more than just a couple on DU, and that surprises and appalls me.

[PersonNumber503602]

16. That's going on here?

I find that rather odd. Like you, I'd expect that in other circles, but not at a place like DU.

[pnwmom]

20. See #18, near the top of the thread. n/t

[FreeState]

22. You haven't been here long - but yes

There has always been an undercurrent of people that claim to be Democrats that are anti-LGBT on here.

[DemocraticWing]

80. Some of them are trolls, but our party does have some work to do.

Polling indicates that consistently about 1/3 of Democrats are conservative on LGBT issues. They might not outright say it here (it's against forum rules) but there are people who oppose our rights here.

[11 Bravo]

8. I am proud to know you, even if it's only peripherally via an internet forum.

[calimary]

9. Well, frankly, the same pro-choice argument that women assert - would apply to him, too.

One would have to ask of people - "what's it to YOU anyway?" "Whose business is it?" "Since when do YOU get the right to weigh in and say what he should do with his body?" "WHOSE body is it, anyway? HIS or yours? Oh, it's HIS, you say? Well, FINE then. It's none of your damn business. BUTT THE HELL OUT!!!!" Or better yet - "STFU!"

Good for your son! Many people go through life not really knowing who they are, not knowing or fully understanding themselves as the persons they really are. He's one of the lucky ones to achieve such a point of clarity like this. And have the sense and wisdom and intellect to recognize it.

Many blessings to you and to him!

[mopinko]

10. your son is very lucky.

feeling safe within your own family is a great gift.

best of luck to the both of you. who would choose this, indeed.

[Hekate]

11. Thank you, CP. Your son must be so proud to have you as a Dad

[Omaha Steve]

12. Wait for it...

[awoke_in_2003]

13. K&R. nt

[Flying Squirrel]

14. One does not need to understand something in order to accept it.

Other than that, my entire response to the Jenner situation is identical to my response to anything which I have no way of understanding: I refrain from comment, so as not to make myself look foolish.

[FreeState]

15. Perfect response

Personally I can't help but think that those that say he is "doing it for attention"", "too rich to understand others", "republican so he shouldn't speak on the topic" etc. are harmful and transphobic. They are hiding their discomfort in something they rationalize as an acceptable complaint (which are not).

[liberal_at_heart]

17. well said cherokeeprogressive!

[enlightenment]

19. Thank you.

As the proud parent of a transgender son, I stand with you. I have been appalled at some of the things I've read on DU in the last couple of days, and disgusted by the willingness of some to conflate Jenner's politics with her character and her decision to make the process of her transition public as nothing more than a desire for money and attention.

Disgusted to the point that I couldn't formulate any response that expressed my feelings in a mature fashion.

Thank you for doing it for you, your son, and all of us.

[marym625]

43. Bravo

It is always so heartwarming to see parents of LGBT people come out so proud of their children.

[cherokeeprogressive]

51. I stand with you as well. This place is maddening sometimes. n/t

[LostOne4Ever]

21. A BIG KICK AND REC!!! (nt)

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Most excellent post, both yours and Charlie's!

Spot on, twice.

[mountain grammy]

24. This is a wonderful post..

there's really more I want to say, but you've said it all so well. My head is spinning, but I have nothing useful to add.

[murielm99]

25. I won't say that I fully understand

transgender people. I have never met a transgender individual, as far as I know. But I am willing to learn.

I don't care that Jenner is a repubbie. So what? He is doing what he needs to do, and becoming who he was meant to be. We are all learning because he is willing to share his journey.

You are a good dad. Your son is lucky to have you.

[Kingofalldems]

26. My problem with Jenner is he has to have a special TV

interview to announce his plans. And now a reality show all about precious him. Did he mention the lady killed in the accident he apparently caused?

[cherokeeprogressive]

28. Diane Sawyer said during the show that the interview was conducted BEFORE the accident.

Thanks for playing though.

[Kingofalldems]

31. Well thank you for playing.

I see you didn't address my second point. Enjoy the Kardashians, they are just lovely people.

[cherokeeprogressive]

34. FIRST, he didn't announce anything during the interview. Anyone who's crawled out from their rock

in the last six months already knew about his current situation.

SECOND, as hard as I tried to get E! to drop their plans for a show based on his life, I simply didn't have the juice.

THIRD, I'd ask how the Kardashians play into this seeing as how he's been separated from Kris since 2013 and their marriage is now dissolved.

[Kingofalldems]

35. Hey, cheers to him for doing what he thinks is right.

No problem with that. If you don't know how the Kardashians figured in this, what with the trash that Jenner participated in, no further discussion is necessary. He did not need to tell the world about all this. But he just had to.

[liberal_at_heart]

29. No one is claiming he is a great guy, just that he is not transitioning for fame because people

don't transition for fame. If you want to argue that he has horrible political views or that he is a spoiled rich person that is fine, but for people to claim he is only transitioning for fame is ignorant and prejudiced.

[Kingofalldems]

33. I despise the Kardashians, and he is one of them in my opinion.

His transition is his own business.

[marym625]

44. and there is no doubt that the person once dubbed The Best Athlete in The World

Openly transitioning, will help countless kids and adults that need to know, it gets better. That there is a reason to live. That they are not alone.

Jeeze!

[liberal_at_heart]

45. I agree.

[marym625]

46. Thanks

Just don't get it. Some people want to just shit on everything.

[cherokeeprogressive]

47. "I despise the Kardashians, and he is one of them in my opinion."

Hatred be a killah. I've been told it takes YEARS off a person's life.

[marym625]

50. absolutely ridiculous to have that level of emotion

For someone you don't know. Frankly, though I am no fan, the fact that they have made so much money just shows how smart they are in business. It speaks more to society than to the Kardashians.

Besides, Bruce Jenner didn't need them to be famous.

[Kingofalldems]

54. Sorry but I don't think he is publicizing his transition

for that reason. He's addicted to celebrity.

Jeeze! right back at you.

[marym625]

60. and so what if he is?

Wtf difference does it make? He sure as shit isn't transitioning for publicity. If it helps just one kid live, I don't give a flying fuck if he makes a billion dollars off his doing this publicly. No one ever has.

I find your attitude abhorrent

[Kingofalldems]

61. Hey I don't have to like Bruce Jenner 'cause you say so.

And he sure as shit is transitioning at least in part for publicity.

Oh yeah, he is loaded. I would gladly change my attitude if he started funding others not so fortunate into transitioning.

I find your attitude abhorrent also.

What's your next insult?

[cherokeeprogressive]

63. "And he sure as shit is transitioning AT LEAST IN PART for publicity" (caps mine).

You go dude. If you break the shovel you're using, gimme a call. My shovel digs DEEP holes for me, it'll probably work for you too.

[Kingofalldems]

64. What shovel? I said at least in part and that's giving him

the benefit of the doubt--big time. That's my opinion. Don't like it? Too bad. Put me on ignore.

[cherokeeprogressive]

68. Hey. Have a Wonderful Day. I mean that.

I don't put anyone on ignore. Who knows? We might find common ground some day and if I had you on ignore, I'd never even know it. I'd much prefer to take the optimistic path and hope we could connect than give up and put you on ignore.

You most certainly ARE entitled to your opinion, as are we all. It's what makes the world go 'round and keeps us on our toes.

Chris

[Kingofalldems]

69. Cool.

[marym625]

67. WOW!

You actually believe he is transitioning for the publicity?

No insult. There is nothing i can say that isn't better said with your own post.

You are obviously uneducated, ignorant when it comes to gender identity and gender dysphoria.

No one said you have to like Bruce Jenner.

[Kingofalldems]

90. He could do it privately like say 99 99/100%

of others.

And you insult me once more while claiming no insults.

[marym625]

94. There was no insult.

I made an observation.

The fact that Bruce Jenner is doing this publicly is a great thing. The fact you can't see that is a shame. Hopefully, you don't have anyone in your life that depends on you for support in transitioning.

[Kingofalldems]

105. You should put me on ignore.

I will continue to voice my opinion regardless.

[marym625]

106. nope. sorry

I will continue to fight for transgender people.

It's a shame there are people like you that won't or can't understand how bad what you are saying is. I truly hope it is just that you can't. To think this is willful ignorance is something I don't want to believe of anyone.

[Kingofalldems]

107. I never said one bad word about transgender people.

I did say something about Bruce Jenner the human. Can you grasp that?

[marym625]

109. You said that he is doing this for publicity,

At least in part. That is transphobic and I am not the only one that sees it.

There is no way someone does this for publicity, in any part. The fact he has been going through this since he was a child, in silence, tells you that. Just having any empathy tells you that.

He also doesn't need to do this for publicity. He certainly has enough avenues to build on his fame and/or infamy.

Your obsession to belittle this is mind boggling. The transgender community needs to have someone like Bruce Jenner do this. Just like the LGB community needed celebrities and people in power to come out publicly.

Your hatred for Jenner is clouding what is something extremely positive. As I stated previously, I don't care if he makes a billion dollars from his public transition, if it helps one kid live, and I have no doubt it will, that's enough for me

[Kingofalldems]

111. Done with you.

You continue to make shit up about me-re I'm obsessed with Jenner and his transition. This is the first thread I have ever commented on it. Looks like my posts have been defending myself against insults by people who disagree with me.

I will modify my statement though--Jenner is exploiting his transition for publicity, not doing in part for publicity. I am sure he has wanted to change for a long time. There.

[marym625]

114. Thank you

That is what everyone had an issue with

[cherokeeprogressive]

118. Thanks.

[marym625]

110. I will add

That you are saying this on a heartfelt post by someone who is standing up for their son. You put this on a post that states in part,

"I have not watched Bruce Jenner's interview yet, but before any of you read/watch it and decide to make a comment -- please realize that any speculation you have over the "authenticity" of Jenner's coming out, or actually if you have any comment at all other than support, is nothing but offensive, ignorant, dehumanizing, and malicious to Jenner, and to transwomen in general. It hurts me, and disappoints me, to hear people I consider friends make virtually no effort to understand or accept Jenner as the identity they have come out with. So if you have anything other than support to add to the conversation, please do not speak of it while I am around, and please ask yourself why you would accept me as the man that I am, but not accept Jenner for the woman that they are." 

I added the bold.

And here you are doing exactly what was asked not to be done.

Then you tell the author of the post to put you on ignore.

It's callous, ignorant, audacious and reprehensible.

[Kingofalldems]

112. I have zero problem with Jenner's transition. Never said anywhere I did.

Your attacks on me are reprehensible.

[marym625]

115. I'm sorry you feel that way

Please think about what the poster and his son feel like

[enlightenment]

73. How do you know what

will or will not be done? At the moment you don't know - but that isn't stopping you from spewing some really nasty stuff.

The Kardashians' are collectively pretty damned ridiculous and seem as useful as tits on a boar. People who enjoy following their lives probably need to get another hobby. That said, your lack of perspective is astonishing - anyone who can so express such virulent dislike of people they have never met and probably never will is bizarre.

Do us all a favor and bow out of this - your attitude is distasteful and yes, transphobic, whether you see it as such or not.

[NuclearDem]

108. Holy shit.

Stop. Just stop.

[LanternWaste]

93. Creative, though unsupported allegation on your part.

"He's addicted to celebrity."

Creative, though unsupported allegation on your part.

[Kingofalldems]

104. Opinion, supported by years and years

of a phony reality show.

[CatWoman]

59. word

[Kingofalldems]

65. Thank you.

I'm evil for not liking the Kardashians apparently.

[CatWoman]

81. i'm so sick of that leech ass, non talented, attention whoring fucking family

appearing on both my tv and my news feed.

[CBGLuthier]

101. Dictionary definition of prejudice.

Because he married a woman you hate and was a stepfather to people you hate you hate him.

Ugly.

[Kingofalldems]

102. He participated fully.

Your post to me was ugly and not factual.

[Jamastiene]

58. especially considering the fact that she is already famous.

If someone is already famous, how can anyone claim they are doing anything for fame. They already have fame.

[jwirr]

27. Your son is right. Given the negative reaction that anyone coming out is likely to face I cannot

imagine anyone doing it unless it is real. I have not read the BJ post but I do not judge them either.

[Aerows]

30. When you get the courage

to be yourself, there will always be people that want you to remain in the pigeon-hole they stuck you in.

Fly free, and if people want to criticize you for your personal choices, they can stay on the ground where you left them!

[djean111]

32. I have never ever understood why anyone NEEDS to understand anyone else's sexuality.

That is the strange thing, to me.

Standing in front of a speeding bus for a politician? For politicians - there are many of them, not singling any one out - who have no trouble sending other people to be killed, or in ordering kills? That's absurd. Or insane. Or misguided.

[FreeState]

36. Gender =/= sexuality n/t

[djean111]

37. I should have said gender or sexuality. Sorry. I just do not know why it would matter to anyone

else other than the person involved.

[Initech]

40. That is an excellent response.

You only get one life in this world, and you should live it the way you want to live it. Haters are always going to hate, and it's always best to ignore them. My only complaint about the Jenner interview is that she identifies as conservative.

[cherokeeprogressive]

55. " You only get one life in this world..." Would that some DUers could see it that way.

And I don't care if he's conservative, liberal, ornery, or mute on the subject of politics. This whole thing wasn't about politics.

I don't hate people because of their political leanings and I know you didn't say anything at all about hate but as I look around it seems lots DO hate anyone whose politics don't jibe with theirs.

[Jamastiene]

56. I support Jenner in her choice to be who she is.

No one would do it unless it was real, I don't think. There is just too much hate and bigotry out there for someone to fake it. It takes everything and more that a person has in them to be who they are.

I don't know about the Republican thing though. Jenner really thinks Republicans would ever "embrace" (her word) transgender rights. She has a lot to learn on that front.

[seveneyes]

57. Let's get Conway Twitty's take on it

[Inkfreak]

97. This is the greatest fucking thing I have EVER seen!!

I cannot explain to you how hard I'm laughing....

[AZ Progressive]

70. Most people that are straight without gender identity issues don't realize the privilege they have

That gay and transgender people often have to have exceptional bravery, or have to have an "I don't care anymore about how the world will treat me anymore because its either this or death" mentality, literally putting everything including one's own life on the line just for a chance to live life authentically. The level of drama that often goes in these people's lives are book and movie worthy. Fortunately as more and more families and communities become trans friendly, this will less and less be a necessary attitude, because its very unfortunate and unfair for people to have to go through much of life either living in a hostile world or hiding themselves and not being able to live life authentically.

[cherokeeprogressive]

76. I couldn't agree more, and that's why I'm pissed at what I've been reading since Friday. n/t

[ismnotwasm]

75. Perfect

I know you are very proud of your son.

[Skittles]

79. your son is indeed very smart

Last edited Mon Apr 27, 2015, 04:30 AM - Edit history (1)

well done, cherokeeprogressive; that's an amazing kid you have there

[cwydro]

82. k and r

[steve2470]

83. I watched the entire Jenner interview...

I don't give a rat's ass if he (Jenner) is a Communist, Republican, Democrat, or apolitical, I saw a human being who has been in emotional pain his entire life over his gender identity. I believe he is sincere and worthy of respect and support and commendations for going public with his transformation. He will do immense good for transgender people the world over.

I also don't give a rat's ass that he was married to Ms. Jenner and is the stepfather to the Kardashians.

He has my 1,000,000% support for his bravery and his transformation. eta: "He and his" used because of Jenner's request.

[FreeState]

86. +1 n/t

[NuclearDem]

84. I for one think it's wonderful some around here have found a release valve.

For Chelsea Manning, it was "Traitor!"

For Jenner, it's "Kardashian!" or "Republican!"

[burrowowl]

85. Interesting! Very!

My Lesbian girl friend wasn't very convinced about him. I don't know, if he has the money why not. But what about those who don't have the money to change?

[steve2470]

89. ok, I'm assuming this is a serious post....

Last edited Mon Apr 27, 2015, 09:10 AM - Edit history (1)

#1- I thought Jenner was 100% serious and sincere. It's one thing to do clownish things on a reality show for money, but your gender identity ? Come on, I'm not cynical enough to believe that anyone would expose themselves to that level of scrutiny (and ridicule and abuse in some cases) for money. Taking hormones for money ? Undergoing very serious surgeries to make money ? Come on.

#2- Yes Jenner is very fortunate to have plenty of money for surgeries, counseling, medications, psychotherapy, etc. Even if he was dirt poor, he STILL was believable. I'm not an expert on transgender issues, but my limited understanding is that many transgender people are what they used to call "pre-operative" (old probably incorrect language now, don't flame me, educate me please).

He (what Jenner prefers to be called for now) was 100% serious and sincere. I have absolutely no doubt about it, and I'm a middle aged straight guy who is a few years younger than him (again, his preference).

[marym625]

96. I agree with you completely

On the pre-op, due to the cost of such surgery, it is correct that many cannot ever have the surgery to fully transition their body. However, that does not change the fact they have transitioned.

Another piece of information for you
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026570966

So nice to see you.

[Duppers]

87. Recommended!

Brave son, wonderful, wonderful dad!

[lexington filly]

88. Thinking folks "choose" to be LGBT is so last century ignorance.

I think that in addition to ignorance, people who take the Bible literally believe being gay is sinful and the Bible is the Word. But if people are in fact born LGBT and it isn't a choice then it can't very well be sinful because "God doesn't make mistakes." So their Bible must be fallible and they simply can't face the idea because then what other parts of the Word are fallible. It's the old what are you gonna believe? Your lying' eyes or the Bible literally?

A guiding principal of mine when it doesn't endanger my well-being is live and let live. Including Jenner.

[justiceischeap]

91. Sadly, I think if Jenner had come out as liberal

he'd be getting much different treatment here. I think some folks here think that if a person is a republican it's okay to pile on and dehumanize that person without stopping to think how those words aimed at the no-good conservative will make others in similar situations feel.

Kudos to you CP for being a smart woman and a great mom.

[City Lights]

99. I think some of the hate here stems from him being conservative, but

some of the knee-jerk hate stems from him being the ex of a Kardashian. Seems like that is a taint he will never be able to wash away.

[dpatbrown]

98. contitution

Jenner's response to why be allowed himself to be interviewed, is questionable at best. But what bothered me the most was his tea party response to why he is a Republican, that he believes in the constitution, says a lot more about him, he's very stupid. And then for him to believe that the GOP bosses would be willing to sit down with him to discuss the issue is very naïve.

[City Lights]

100. Thanks for this post, cherokeeprogressive! nt

[DesertDiamond]

103. I get your message - accept people as they are. I feel it's not our place to decide if they're

Last edited Mon Apr 27, 2015, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)

authentic or not. I understand some people are wondering the same thing they wondered about Kim Kardashian's first marriage (to Chris Whatshisface) because that family is prone to extreme publicity stunts. But I'm assuming Jenner's coming out is real, and I'm giving him the best support that can be given by someone who doesn't even know him. Every positive vibe counts.

On the subject of your Son Charlie -- !!! CONGRATULATIONS!!! He is on the path to happiness and that makes me happy. A friend's "son" turned out to be a daughter inside and when she finally was able to physically become a daughter, her happiness shone like the sun! And much happiness ahead for Son Charlie as well!

Regarding your experience of being attacked on this board for asking questions... I really feel you there. Unfortunately there are people everywhere who don't take the time to understand what's being said or where it's coming from, and they comment based on their knee-jerk reaction. That's how Fox gets its followers, and I'd love to not have to deal with that on DU, but everyone's human, and I have to respect them even if they don't respect me.

Please give Son Charlie a hug for me!

[fadedrose]

113. I applaud you and Charlie

He is lucky to have a dad like you. It will go well for him because of your love.

We could all have benefited from having a parent like you. I sincerely mean that.

[blondie58]

116. First off, CP- congratulations to you and Charlie!

I really believe that your gender is between your ears and not your legs.

Personally- I know, coincidentally, another Charlie- who started off as Ashley and he always felt like a guy. Followed her dad into the male restroom as a child. He is in the process of transitioning and I find myself forgetting that he was ever an Ashley.
We used to get together and make gingerbread houses at Christmas. I asked him if I could ask some questions and he said sure.
He was the boyfriend/girlfriend of a friends daughter. Their plan was to adopt a child together. Then Charlie changed his mind and decided that she didn't want to do that.

I feel so sorry for anyone in this situation. They can't help how they feel.
I wish you - and Charlie the best of luck in your journey. 🌹

[Oilwellian]

117. I love a father and son team...

who can also give a one-two punch and knock it outta the park!

K&R