Clinton Cash

[whereisjustice]

But “Clinton Cash” is potentially more unsettling, both because of its focused reporting and because major news organizations including The Times, The Washington Post and Fox News have exclusive agreements with the author to pursue the story lines found in the book.

You know when those of us sounded the alarm on Clinton this is EXACTLY what we didn't want to happen by having the Democratic Party putting all of OUR eggs in her basket.

Most of this was known well ahead of time. But no one would listen.

Now instead of focusing on the very important issues of the day, it's going to be the Bill and Hillary show from now til end times.

Do you understand the consequences of having her as the candidate? Can you understand the holy hell she is going to create for everyone?

What the hell is so hard to understand about not wanting this behavior associated with the Democratic Party?

The brainiacs behind her second coming better have a damn good plan b.

This all or nothing shit is patently idiotic.

[KMOD]

1. Oh yay! More B.S. thrown at HRC.

It's sad enough when it comes from the RWers. It's even sadder when it comes from our own.

[whereisjustice]

2. Well, when Clinton costs us the election, don't say we didn't warn you this would happen.

[KMOD]

3. Okey dokey!

lol

[JaneyVee]

56. Yeah, Republicans would sure leave other Dems alone.

[BojackFan]

5. You think betting everything

on HRC is a good idea? I think that is what concerns the OP. I wouldn't question his motives based on that post.

[KMOD]

8. Nope!

I'm all for many candidates running for the primary.

But I have yet to see a better candidate than HRC running.

[cali]

35. no one else is running as of yet

but even so, she's a shitty campaigner and a very poor candidate. risk averse, opportunistic, unprincipled, far too hawkish, about as Israel right or wrong as you can get. Defender of Nuttyyahu. for attacking Syria and training forces there. Corporate entanglements to gag on. Hell, even on abortion:

" I have said many times that I can support a ban on late-term abortions, including partial-birth abortions, so long as the health and life of the mother is protected."
http://www.ontheissues.org/Cabinet/Hillary_Clinton_Abortion.htm

Hey, maybe she's changed on that.

She always voted the right way in the Senate, but that kind of rhetoric is not helpful- particularly now when abortion rights have been so sharply diminished.

Hillary is a master at weasel words and obfuscating.

She is against raising taxes on the wealthy- raising taxes on capital gains or raising the SS cap. "Inclusive prosperity" is slowed down trickle down with a few attractive fig leaves.

She's the ultimate follow the poll pol.

fuck that.

[bvar22]

103. Thank You, Cali.

That sums it up for me too.

"She is against raising taxes on the wealthy- raising taxes on capital gains or raising the SS cap."

All 3 of those Economic (and Democratic) measures would begin a turn around for the dying Working Class and the Poor.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Welcome to Democratic Underground./NT

[CanadaexPat]

36. Degrees of sadness won't decide the election.

This kind of "bs" may well.

[Sheepshank]

126. Frankly it's not coming from one of "our own"

don't be too shocked when the vitriol continues from the OP and those who hit the rec button.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. I hope these faux scandals do for Hill what they did for Bill

What Nietzsche said..."What doesn't kill the Clintons make them stronger."

[whereisjustice]

6. Sure, 8 years of Bush had nothing to do with Clinton's screwed up handling of his sexapade

Nope, you'll probably say it was Nader. You'll say Bill was very popular and did nothing wrong that would change anyone's perception about the Democratic Party. Well nothing that might cause them to vote for Bush.

Nope, couldn't have been anything Clinton did. Must have been Nader.

And you'll argue that it was so much fun the first time around, let's do it all over again.

Because history never repeats itself.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Gore ran away from Clinton

Interesting you bring up Nader not me.

[whereisjustice]

9. Actually, Clinton ran away from Gore the minute he unzipped his fly for an intern.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. Was Clinton the first president to have a paramour?

NT

[whereisjustice]

17. duplicate

[Art_from_Ark]

24. No

But he was the first one to be impeached for it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. That's a testament to the perfidy of the Rethuglicants..

And despite that historians rate him as one of our more effective presidents.

[Art_from_Ark]

30. It was certainly a circus

especially when it was revealed how those who were leading the Republican charge, including Newt Gingrich, Bob Livingston, and even the Republican Senator from Clinton's home state, the Reverend Tim Hutchinson, were also found to have had their own paramours.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. They say a man is only as loyal as his opportunities.

That being said I wouldn't want Bill as a B I L but he didn't invent infidelity.


BTW, you forgot Henry Hyde who made a cuckold of his best friend.

[11 Bravo]

105. Don't forget Helen Chenoweth. (We don't want to appear sexist.)

Ms. Chenoweth (R. Idaho) was one of the loudest and most insistent callers for President Clinton's resignation over the Lewinsky affair. But wouldn't you know it, old Helen had indulged in a six-year long adulterous relationship of her very own.
A Republican hypocrite, who'da thunk it?

[whereisjustice]

12. First to test our patience by arguing the meaning of the word "is". Guess what, we lost. He made a

a ton of cash though.

[JI7]

15. WTF

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. He's channeling Ken Starr. Shows what he's got and he's got nothing./NT

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Gore lost by running away from Clinton, remember

We established that when I disabused you of the notion it was Nader's fault.

[whereisjustice]

23. Repeating that as much as you want won't make it true. I will agree it is a convenient backstory

to cover up the reckless behavior of Bill Clinton who's bad behavior gave us Bush and the Iraq War.

Would you have advised him to go ahead and have sex with an intern because he'd never get caught and there was no risk to Democratic Party?

You know, because everyone does it. Like running their own email server for the US State Dept business.

What could go wrong? I mean, it's a Clinton for god's sake.

You'll be bailing water for her the rest of her campaign.

Just don't call it fighting for change.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. Bill Clinton had an approval rating in the 60s during the campaign.

Bill Clinton had an approval rating in the 60s during the campaign despite Ken Starr's and the Republican's witch hunt, ergo:





Al Gore ran away from a uber popular president and lost. In fact if not for the pesky 25th Amendment Clinton would have wiped the floor with Bush as there is no precedent in history for a president not to be re-elected with an approval rating in the sixties.

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.

-John Adams,

[whereisjustice]

28. And yet his behavior gave us Bush and set us back for a decade. Ironic isn't it?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Asked and answered

Al Gore ran away from Clinton, picked a comically inept vice president, and lost. If you believe Al Gore lost for any other reason there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion.


I am fully engaged so we can continue this "I'm rubber, you're glue" argument into infinity. I didn't get to 51,000 posts for nothing. Crazy and persistent has its benefits.

[Major Hogwash]

33. And cost the American people at least $3 Trillion dollars!!

2 fucking wars that were completely immoral, illegal, and unnecessary, and at least a million lives!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. Gore lost his own race.* I already established that.

I can retire from this board and allow the Clintons to be maligned or I can stay and defend them. The choices for me are mutually exclusive. It would be DU's loss because there is no way I can post here, see them attacked and not defend them.






*He actually won...We can litigate that too...

[Major Hogwash]

51. The only thing you established is that you can stay up all night posting on DU!!!

I don't know why you would even bother.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. I have insomnia.

NT

[Major Hogwash]

55. 20 posts in just this one thread!!

I don't know why you even bother.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

57. I will not apologize for my tireless work to inform the denizens of DU

NT

[Major Hogwash]

61. What kind of work do you do?

Although it may not be obvious to others how hard you work, or what you call work, but this is not work.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. I feel I am fulfilling my civic duty which is a solemn obligation./NT

[CanadaexPat]

37. Just like HRC's numbers before the campaign started...

Notice the actual president has the lowest numbers - people are happy to love someone who isn't doing anything.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. Those numbers have been consistent for fifteen years.

But thank you for your input.

[AtomicKitten]

13. the Bill and Hillary show

no thanks

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

79. Yes, forget Scooby Doo...Eliza-liza-beth...where are you...we got some work to do now...

[msongs]

14. the democratic party has done no such thing. the primaries are open to anyone who cares to announce

[sadoldgirl]

20. Then how is it that the NDP was asking

me for money for HRC? Is that an open primary
invitation or not??!!

[sadoldgirl]

18. I would not be surprised about a good plan

from their side:
1) Make sure there is more than enough money
to discourage anyone else to run

2) Make sure that a "necessary" primary will only
encourage people, who are aiming at the 2nd spot

3)Make certain that even a lunch meal and everything
else is covered by the MSM

4) Preempt any popular other person by claiming
their support and using their issues.

I am sure there is more, but is that not a great start?

[whereisjustice]

21. That is a great start. You've perfectly captured the insanity of it all.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. It's not Ms. Clinton's fault she has no credible threats.

NT

[Major Hogwash]

27. The Clintons are mice, the mainstream media are cats.

And they are going to tear those meeses to pieces.

Enjoy the show.
It will end the same way the last one did.
Early, let's hope.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. How did it end?

With Clinton as our most popular living ex president?

A more apt analogy is the Clintons are the Road Runner and the Rethuglicants are Wile E. Coyote.


And I don't have to hope. I know.

[Enthusiast]

34. ...

[MoonRiver]

80. Delusional hogwash, pun intended.

[SidDithers]

38. This thread has a definite scent o pine to it...nt

Sid

[Tom Rinaldo]

40. I like my candidates battle hardened

Like the Republicans won't invent scandals out of thin air to knock down any Democrat who runs? Yeah, right. John Kerry got swiftboated, Barack Obama is a secret Muslim. Al Gore invented the internet, etc. etc. etc.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. I fixed it for you, Mr. Rinalldo

Like the Republicans won't invent scandals out of thin air to knock down any Democrat who runs? Yeah, right. John Kerry got swiftboated when they alleged he shot himself to got his Purple Heart, and shot a VC teenager in the back as he ran away to get his Bronze Medal. Barack Obama is an illegal alien, a secret Muslim and "pals" around with terrorists. Al Gore invented the internet, etc. etc. etc.

[hedgehog]

43. Would you agee that non-republicans can tell the difference bt a "scandal"

made up out of thin air, and a situation involving say, what looks like an exchange of money for favors and/or access? Not all scandals are baseless.

[Tom Rinaldo]

45. Politics is poluted by filthy money. The public gets that. It's like in Casablanca...

They no doubt are shocked, shocked I tell you, to find out that there is gambling going on in the casino. Attacks on Hillary about this from Republican Party candidates who audition to become the personal servants of billionaires while taking orders from the Prime Minister of Israel would expose Republicans as crass shrill hypocrites, except for one thing: they already are exposed as crass shrill hypocrites and this just fits that narrative.

The Republicans are the boy who cried wolf one thousand times over. That is why attacks on Hillary now from them will always tend to backfire. Their true intent is always crystal clear and it never is a dispassionate public examination of proper ethical standards for elected officials to follow. They are chronic habitual shit throwers hoping something, anything, will stick on the wall, and they always come across as assholes doing it.

The Clinton Foundation is a large scale international charity that isn't outsourcing American jobs, and of course it won't always be spotlessly clean, but I hope the Republican Party knocks themselves out trying to make an issue out of this instead of speaking to the American public about issues that really matter to them, the way that I expect either Hillary or any other Democratic nominee will do.

It's not the details of this alleged latest scandal that will register on the average non-Republican voter, it is the cumulative knee jerk piling on negativity of their reflexive attacks on Hillary that will stick. With Hillary Clinton they no longer have the political luxury of defining her negatively before she had a chance to define herself to the American people. Personal attacks on Hillary are already fully baked into the political equation after two decades of non stop Republican assaults. It demonstrates how the Republicans have nothing constructive to offer the voters now far more than it says anything negative about Hillary.

[hedgehog]

48. "of course it won't always be spotlessly clean,"

Why not?

[Tom Rinaldo]

66. Start with human nature and go from there...

People tend to try to return favors in one way or another, even when there is no explicit trade off. Corporations sponsor programs on PBS for the "good will" it "buys them". It is considered a business investment even if it isn't reported as same.

And people, and corporations, donate large amounts of money to political campaigns. Even though everyone swears up and down that no votes are being purchased, and claim that simply purchasing "access" in that way is merely a wholesome exercise of American democracy.

Our entire politics is rife with conflicts of interests or at least the appearances of same. It's unseemly to say the least but it leads to large amounts of money getting raised, sometimes for good, sometimes for evil.

[Major Hogwash]

67. She said she dodged bullets in Bosnia.

Not like the Republicans have to invent anything when it comes to Hillary, her imagination is enough to get r' done.

[Tom Rinaldo]

68. That must be why she didn't get confirmed to be Secretary of State....

Oh wait a minute, she was, and she won high approval ratings from the public while in that office. No one on the national stage for a generation or more never said anything that was not totally accurate. Her chances in a general election will not hinge on such trivial gotcha attempts..

[Major Hogwash]

69. She's not Secretary now, is she?

25 years of lying on the national stage of politics, and you dinnt blink.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. As I have said, ad infinitum and ad nauseum, that which doesn't kill the Clintons only ...

As I have said, ad infinitum and ad nauseum, that which doesn't kill the Clintons only makes them stronger.





http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026536413

[Faux pas]

46. Kickin'

Just ignore the 'deniers' they'll never get it. They're blinded by the that false clinton glow.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. We deniers just don't get it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6536413


But we will just have to live through another dozen or so more faux scandals before our Hillary becomes 45

[Faux pas]

70. lol

already saw the 'polls'. It's easy to to be ahead when you're the ONLY 'Dem' running. Have a good one!

[geek tragedy]

108. No, we just don't align ourselves with rightwing slime merchants.

Why folks such as yourself embrace the rightwing noise machine's crap like this book---you will have to answer for that yourself.

[Faux pas]

109. It's NOT

the 'rightwing noise machine's crap' that I base MY opinion on, it's years and years of watching, listening to HER two face BS noise machine. Thank you and have a nice day.

[geek tragedy]

110. you are here promoting rightwing slime merchant swiftboating crap.

That you do so because you agree with its contents is hardly a defense

[Faux pas]

112. Ummm

I NEVER said I agreed with it's contents, you're PROJECTING. I just don't like hrc it's simple really. You're baiting me. I'm liberal squared bordering on socialist. That is all.

[geek tragedy]

113. You recommended this thread, which is promoting that rightwing piece of agitprop

as a legitimate critique of Clinton for which only she can be blamed. And explicitly assuming that the contents of that rightwing piece of agitprop are accurate.

Moreover, you are attacking critics of that rightwing piece of agitprop.

When you go so far left you wind up holding hands with the right, it's take to get perspective.

[geek tragedy]

115. "I recommend any anti hrc thread" Agenda revealed, kthxbai nt

[hrmjustin]

116. Even if it is not worth a rec?

[Sheepshank]

127. TOAST.

One less post to read on all future threads. Thanks for saving me some time.

[JTFrog]

47. Guess it's time to dust this one off.

[Metric System]

49. The right will throw sludge no matter the nominee.

[Thinkingabout]

54. Exactly, ANY candidate can have sludge thrown. We will just have to handle as it comes.

I remember Gary Hart and his problems and yes the GOP is going to pull some very dirty stunts. The GOP worked a deal with Iran before the 1980 election and Jimmy Carter was defeated by Ronald Reagan and that was a shame. Dirty rotten politics. Nixon pulled the Watergate break in and though Nixon was elected he was pulling dirty stunts. The GOP worked their asses off to keep Bill Clinton in continuous scandal but Bill still did his job despite the GOP efforts. President Obama has worked very hard and the GOP has worked overtime to destroy him even having McConnell say he was going to work to make sure Obama did not have a second term. We can choose to follow the RW trash talking or we can choose to work hard for our candidates to be elected.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. What got Nixon into trouble is he was meddling in our primaries...

What got Nixon into trouble is he was meddling in our primaries and scheming to get the Democratic presidential nominee he wanted to run against.


Sound familiar?

[Thinkingabout]

64. And meddling continues today. Bill Kristol and friends wants anyone but Hillary

And he has many working to help him. Of course Rand and others surely doesn't want Hillary running, the clown car will work overtime but Democrats needs to work to get Democrats elected in order to turn this country around.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. Precisely...

This is a sticky subject and while I will zealously defend Hillary I don't want to sow more seeds of divisiveness...

The Republicans are scared s--tless of Ms. Clinton and would prefer to run against anybody but her. Their track record against the Clintons is not exactly stellar. That's a fact. That's why their minions are tacitly encourage a Democratic battle.

[Thinkingabout]

71. It is called getting used.

[JaneyVee]

52. Hahahaha! Here's the author:

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/04/20/clinton-cash-author-peter-schweizers-long-histo/203209

Please question the source before relying on rightwing hacks.

[Bobbie Jo]

60. This has become a regular occurance..

dig, dig, dig, dig, dig.

[SidDithers]

83. The right hates Hillary. The fringe left hates Hillary...

It's getting harder and harder to tell them apart.

Sid

[blm]

58. Can you understand the level of stupidity reached when surrendering to RW propaganda?

Did you crawl in a hole and give up after the Left Behind Books came out, too?

There would never be ANY Democratic candidate ever with your reaction to RW propaganda - which is exactly why the professional propagandists keep putting it out - for stupid GOP voters and trembling Dems too inarticulate to counter the abject lies.

[NYC Liberal]

59. This happens to EVERY Democratic candidate. They exaggerate shit or make it up.

You don't think it'll happen with someone like Warren or Sanders? You bet your ass they'll find something to attack ANY Democrat on.

[HR_Pufnstuf]

72. Jim Webb 2016

He can win.

[Evergreen Emerald]

76. Really? I thought we wanted a liberal.

You might want to consider his record and his stance on the issues.

[treestar]

73. Why do so many Democrats want her?

I think people are tired of and don't care about this stuff.

[fadedrose]

75. R

[Dr Hobbitstein]

74. YAY! More Republican Talking Points on DU!

Most of the news reports I've seen on this book have referred to it as "written by a former Bush aid, and rightwing author"... They even said that on the Today Show. But certain DUers find no issue in using right wing hatchet jobs to smear Hillary...

[cantbeserious]

77. I'm Ready For Oligarchy - Are You? - Vote HRC

[ismnotwasm]

78. Why are you implying a RW book should effect Democratic decisions?

I don't understand.

[MoonRiver]

81. Some people aren't what they appear to be?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

82. Matthew 7:15/NT

[ismnotwasm]

84. D'oh!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

93. Proverbs 6:19/NT

[Hekate]

85. MediaMatters says this guy Schweitzer lies for a living. What's your Plan B?

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/04/20/clinton-cash-author-peter-schweizers-long-histo/203209

Media should be cautious with Republican activist and strategist Peter Schweizer's new book Clinton Cash. Schweizer has a disreputable history of reporting marked by errors and retractions, with numerous reporters excoriating him for facts that "do not check out," sources that "do not exist," and a basic failure to practice "Journalism 101."

[sufrommich]

86. Well,someone had to replace Dinesh DSouza now that he's

an ex-con. Not sure why it's being marketed on DU though.

[Hekate]

88. Purveying RW slime & blaming HRC for it seems to be a popular tactic here among some. Wonder why?

It doesn't matter who our nominee is -- the RW will lie about them. Why do we tolerate it here? Why the enthusiastic support among some here?

[Major Hogwash]

90. Excerpts will be in the New York Times and the Washington Post later on.

And then the legitimacy will be established for this issue.

[Hekate]

91. I think we can count on that much. Then the tv pundits can talk about it daily. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

95. Somebody has to be surrogates for the GOP candidates because they are so weak and ineffective.

NT

[DemocratSinceBirth]

92. There were dozens of articles in the " New York Times and the Washington Post" about Whitewater...

There were dozens of articles in the " New York Times and the Washington Post" about Whitewater and the legitimacy of it as an issue was never "established"..

DemocratSinceBirth

[Major Hogwash]

96. There were also dozens of articles about Bubba and Monica.

And the legitimacy of that issue was established, even though he lied about it!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

97. They hounded and continue to hound the man for twenty five years

They hounded and continue to hound the man for twenty five years and all they got on him is a consensual blow job...I am of the opinion if his detractors would have given or gotten one they wouldn't be so ornery.






#lol@me

[Major Hogwash]

98. Bubba will never be allowed back in the White House.

People don't forget that type of thing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

99. "A dream is a wish the heart makes."

Cinderella.




#lol@me

[DemocratSinceBirth]

100. LOL

Bubba will never be allowed back in the White House.People don't forget that type of thing

-Major Hogwash

#lol@me

[Vinca]

87. Now is the time to publish a hate-filled Clinton book and turn a few bucks.

That's what this amounts to: swiftboating.

[workinclasszero]

89. So pathetic to see right wing lies like "Clinton Cash" here on DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026543155

[DemocratSinceBirth]

94. Matthew 7:16/NT

[Hekate]

101. Right on cue, it shows up on MSNBC on the fluffy program "The Cycle"! This is the...

.... smear equivalent of money laundering.

-- Make up a lie --
-- publish it in a book --
-- the story about the book, not about the veracity of the author or his "sources", gets repeated in newspapers --
-- through the miracle of 24/7 television "news" the story gets repeated on air with few disclaimers, except to call it "controversial."
-- If questioned, the cutie-pies on The Cycle can say they read it here! or someplace. Maybe the WaPo or the NYT. But people are talking about it!

-- Lather, rinse, repeat, repeat, repeat.

[Historic NY]

102. So you'd rather spread propaganda....

where is your sense of checking facts?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026538763

or better yet..............

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2015/04/21/rachel-maddow-explores-clinton-cash-books-connection-to-new-york-times-washington-post/

Don/t come here spouting RW bullshit.....that the media darlings know is false.

[William769]

104. Here's a good link for you.

http://election.democraticunderground.com/10026544214

Skinner also has a OP up http://election.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6542897 I'm sure there's a source you would like to use also.

[SidDithers]

106. "Clinton Cash" author admits he can't back up his book...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026545134


Imagine that.

Sid

[geek tragedy]

107. People who promote rightwing, Swiftboating trash are not above suspicion nt

[LanternWaste]

111. Hanging one's hat on a hoax press release is an accurate gauge of objectivity versus bias.

Hanging one's hat on a hoax press release is an accurate gauge of objectivity versus bias for many reporters.

[SidDithers]

117. Kick for exposure...

and because the OP hasn't had a chance to come back and acknowledge their use of right-wing sourcing to attack a Democrat.

Sid

[ismnotwasm]

118. Oh I was just thinking

"Who kicked this dammit" but I appaud your effort, and I won't trash the tread as I wait with baited breath for the no doubt forthcoming explanation

[SidDithers]

119. Sometimes, shit-stirring needs to be exposed for what it is...

especially when the shit being stirred falls apart under closer scrutiny and further reporting.



Sid

[SidDithers]

120. Kick for continued exposure...nt

Sid

[SidDithers]

121. Fox’s Chris Wallace confronts ‘Clinton Cash’ author: ‘You don’t have a single piece of evidence’

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026570299

Sid

[DemocratSinceBirth]

123. Sid, you do know the most dangerous place to be is the buffer between the accused and a lynch mob.

[99Forever]

122. I'm with you.

I have had more than enough of the on-going Clinton Drama Saga for this lifetime. I want a President that doesn't have to spend 90% of his or her time defending their personal history instead of FOCUSING on the problems of working people.

[pnwmom]

124. You are very naive if you really thought they wouldn't do this to ANYONE who appeared

to lead the pack, no matter how strong.

John Kerry was the first swift boated candidate, attacked on totally spurious terms, whose greatest strengths were twisted into weaknesses. It worked, so the techniques will be used on whomever we put up.

[SidDithers]

125. Kick for RW slime in GD...nt

Sid

[Sheepshank]

128. The one thing that stinks more than the OP

is predictable reccers for a thread already shown to be hogwash. I wonder how many originally recc'ed and then changed their minds bwah haa haa haa