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cali

(114,904 posts)
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 06:34 AM Apr 2015

Clinton in Iowa: "... unnecessary regulation that has put a damper on economic growth"

Before I post the article, I want to make note/comment on a couple of things. OK, staged events for politicians are the standard- so many DUer Hillary supporters say. Fine. But then a listening tour with hand-picked folks pretty meaningless, right? If she's really listening in order to formulate policy, she needs to be hearing from people who aren't hand-picked supporters. And btw,it would be highly unusual for a candidate not to have their policies on most issues ready to go when they announce.

The other things I want to point out is I find her statement that regulation and red tape are the problem with economic growth, curious, and I'd like to know what she meant by keeping the best parts of the ACA.

And sooner or later she's going to have to answer questions from reporters.

Yeah, yeah. I'm just a hater. A basher. My criticism and questions are inappropriate. Just thought I'd save some folks the trouble of tossing those at me. Seriously, if you find this post reflective of "hate" or "bashing", DU has a problem.




In her second day on the campaign trail, Hillary Clinton rolled ahead with what has emerged as largely a listening tour, laying out only broad strokes of her policy agenda.

Clinton appeared more relaxed Wednesday during her second event in Iowa, where she presented herself as a champion of small-business owners, a reformer on immigration and a policy wonk when it comes to health care. She pledged to keep the best of Obamacare and talked generally about the need for economic competitiveness and growth.

“Slowly over time, it’s become more difficult, more expensive, more red tape, unnecessary regulation that has put a damper” on economic growth, she said. She praised the “virtuous cycle” of consumers jump-starting the economy with more spending.

But she remained light on policy details, saying that “before I roll out my policies, I want to hear from you on the front lines.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/hillary-clinton-iowa-campaign-trail-policy-agenda-117005.html#ixzz3XT0hi2Bh





98 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Clinton in Iowa: "... unnecessary regulation that has put a damper on economic growth" (Original Post) cali Apr 2015 OP
I have no problem with inappropriate questions or the truth, but she will . n/t orpupilofnature57 Apr 2015 #1
What regulations does she feel are just 'red tape' hindering growth? And what parts of ACA peacebird Apr 2015 #2
If a Democrat is going to spout such things DefenseLawyer Apr 2015 #5
I'm waiting.... but not holding my breath cali Apr 2015 #30
That was my first thought too. zeemike Apr 2015 #64
E.P.A., Banking reforms enacted after the 2008 fiasco. Hoppy Apr 2015 #6
suuuuuuurrrreeeee we will. Oh well, this is what primary fights are for. Volaris Apr 2015 #43
Tax regs. Obama ran on the same issue in 2008 and 2012....reform of the msanthrope Apr 2015 #31
Yeah and how the one guy can't get a loan for his business because of his student loan debt... boston bean Apr 2015 #42
Precisely...when did making the tax code fair stop being a progressive value? nt msanthrope Apr 2015 #45
Since Hillary started running for the nomination workinclasszero Apr 2015 #96
What does that problem have to do with burdensome "regulations"? DefenseLawyer Apr 2015 #50
SSHH! You are blocking the flow of talking points! demwing Apr 2015 #74
Spoken like a true republican. /nt RiverLover Apr 2015 #3
That was my first thought too 4dsc Apr 2015 #18
Right. These hand picked round tablers were chosen because of morningfog Apr 2015 #4
I'm willing to concede to the Hillary supporters that it's standard that campaigns cali Apr 2015 #7
I don't disagree. Obviously, she's much better than any morningfog Apr 2015 #9
You mean Gary 50 Apr 2015 #72
Ding ding ding ding we have a WINNAH! kath Apr 2015 #94
Based on those words, I would say that various folks on DU were right. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2015 #8
I think she does want votes from the left, but she knows the left cali Apr 2015 #10
I tend to agree with your perceptions of the whole thing. pangaia Apr 2015 #73
thank you. I try. cali Apr 2015 #90
You know, going back and reading my reply to you, pangaia Apr 2015 #97
As a Bush, Jeb should be automatically disqualified from running deutsey Apr 2015 #65
Until she is forced to debate. PassingFair Apr 2015 #82
"Unnecessary regulation".... sendero Apr 2015 #11
I just want to know what she's referring to when she speaks about cali Apr 2015 #12
I could probably agree.... sendero Apr 2015 #13
I can give you an example of what she is probably talking about leftofcool Apr 2015 #29
she doesn't say. I've been told repeatedly by her supporters cali Apr 2015 #38
Well, some of us can't afford to pack up and move to Vermont. leftofcool Apr 2015 #47
Again, Vermont is rated repeatedly as one of the worst places for small businesses cali Apr 2015 #51
No, they were not all state regulations leftofcool Apr 2015 #57
I have. cali Apr 2015 #63
*raises hand* Cal Carpenter Apr 2015 #77
Alright, dispense with the bullshit. Tell us the fed.gov regs that caused you to give up. And no ChisolmTrailDem Apr 2015 #86
Tax Breaks are not "Red Tape" Cosmic Kitten Apr 2015 #80
She's referring to the same thing Obama ran on in 2008 and 2012.... msanthrope Apr 2015 #36
It was in the context of America being ranked 46th in the creation of small business. boston bean Apr 2015 #39
I can't find a quote from Obama saying the exact same thing cali Apr 2015 #60
here, try this... boston bean Apr 2015 #62
That is because.. sendero Apr 2015 #88
Unnecessary regulations are dirty words to me, especially when coming from a Clinton. Enthusiast Apr 2015 #22
+1000 kath Apr 2015 #95
I'm really glad she's running and saying these things. I just wish ... Scuba Apr 2015 #14
I find it disturbing that she's saying this stuff cali Apr 2015 #17
She's not the one missing details Renew Deal Apr 2015 #48
+1!!!! Nt newfie11 Apr 2015 #21
I guess she qualifies as a conservative democrat. [nt] Jester Messiah Apr 2015 #41
What is gained by Hillary bashing? Sancho Apr 2015 #15
You are wrong. The repub candidates and prospective candidates have given cali Apr 2015 #23
We'll just have to disagree then... Sancho Apr 2015 #52
Really? jeff47 Apr 2015 #89
It's easy to be a loser....and I was mostly referring to Democrats, but it applies to repubs... Sancho Apr 2015 #93
That's Wall St. talking. hobbit709 Apr 2015 #16
Regulations are he problem is a RW talking point and she shouldn't be fostering it on point Apr 2015 #19
damn right Novara Apr 2015 #33
"I'd like to know what she meant by keeping the best parts of the ACA." Me, too. Buzz Clik Apr 2015 #20
I see no indication that she wants single payer- judging from the comments she made cali Apr 2015 #26
Let's find someone to run against her. Buzz Clik Apr 2015 #37
I agree turbinetree Apr 2015 #70
The Republicans have nothing to offer. Screw 'em. Buzz Clik Apr 2015 #78
she stated that SP will not happen while she's president. Doctor_J Apr 2015 #34
I guess she intends to cut from ACA some of the good stuff. Wonderful. Buzz Clik Apr 2015 #35
How about you stop guessing Renew Deal Apr 2015 #49
I agree with that. And that should include all the Hillary supporters cali Apr 2015 #68
+1 Buzz Clik Apr 2015 #76
I don't take orders from you. Buzz Clik Apr 2015 #75
I didn't in any way, shape or form issue an order. cali Apr 2015 #79
Buzz was posting to Renew, not you Cosmic Kitten Apr 2015 #81
I'm not giving orders. I'm making a suggestion. Renew Deal Apr 2015 #85
Deregulating only leads to mass unemployement mylye2222 Apr 2015 #24
Agreed DrKZ Apr 2015 #98
fuck uponit7771 Apr 2015 #25
Obama ran on the same issue in 2008 and 2012....small business msanthrope Apr 2015 #27
Just close your eyes, everybody... Orsino Apr 2015 #28
+1 DeadLetterOffice Apr 2015 #53
Yeah, apparently we aren't voting for POTUS, we're voting for SCOTUS. progressoid Apr 2015 #83
I do appreciate that she will be honest about her corporatism. Obama's pretense of Doctor_J Apr 2015 #32
I disagree. I see her sending conflicting messages to appeal/appease various cali Apr 2015 #44
Well, judging by her donor list I'm sure economic deregulation would be a top priority. Jester Messiah Apr 2015 #40
heard those exact same words from jack welch and wife yesterday touting their new book DrDan Apr 2015 #46
To all you folks calling Hillary a Republican here tiredtoo Apr 2015 #54
Small businesses had been the backbone of America. Local over regulation & outright laws forbidding Sunlei Apr 2015 #55
Deregulation gave us this, 5 years ago: BeanMusical Apr 2015 #56
This Liberalynn Apr 2015 #67
as for a detailed platform bigtree Apr 2015 #58
"unusual for a candidate not to have their policies on most issues ready to go " < I think that jtuck004 Apr 2015 #59
How upset were you by Obama's executive order regarding unnecessary regulation? onenote Apr 2015 #61
Cali, I heard the sound clip of her "Let's keep what works" comments about the ACA bullwinkle428 Apr 2015 #66
More context is needed. NCTraveler Apr 2015 #69
What Regulations!? imthevicar Apr 2015 #71
“before I roll out my policies, I want to hear from you on the front lines.” progressoid Apr 2015 #84
Platitudes plus argle-bargle. The art of political speech making. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2015 #87
If the premise is false, the remedy will be wrong. mmonk Apr 2015 #91
"...unnecessary regulation ..." Hell Hath No Fury Apr 2015 #92

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
2. What regulations does she feel are just 'red tape' hindering growth? And what parts of ACA
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 06:39 AM
Apr 2015

Is she prepared to jetison?

 

DefenseLawyer

(11,101 posts)
5. If a Democrat is going to spout such things
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 06:50 AM
Apr 2015

She better be ready to immediately give concrete examples of what she's talking about. Otherwise she just sounds like every Republican in the world. Wages? Outsourcing? Like hell you say! Red Tape! Spotted owls! Taxes! Taxes! Taxes!

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
64. That was my first thought too.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:55 AM
Apr 2015

It sounds like a Republican talking point...perhaps she wants to appeal to them.
Or perhaps she is trying to condition us to accept those things, because if you are wild about Hillary you will have to justify that in your mind.

 

Hoppy

(3,595 posts)
6. E.P.A., Banking reforms enacted after the 2008 fiasco.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 06:54 AM
Apr 2015

Actually, we shouldn't worry. She is just trying to get teabagging votes.


You watch. When she gets to be elected, we will all have smiles on our faces and then we will be glad we didn't vote for Bernie.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
31. Tax regs. Obama ran on the same issue in 2008 and 2012....reform of the
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:46 AM
Apr 2015

Tax code. Right now, our tax code tends to favor large corporations, not small business.

boston bean

(36,223 posts)
42. Yeah and how the one guy can't get a loan for his business because of his student loan debt...
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:59 AM
Apr 2015

I mean these are the concerns of right wingers... right... ??



 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
96. Since Hillary started running for the nomination
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 03:44 PM
Apr 2015

The purists didnt care about President Obama saying the same things.

But Hillary is held to a much higher standard. One she will never meet unless she walks on water, blindfolded and both hands tied behind her back!

Why is Hillary held to a much higher standard?

 

DefenseLawyer

(11,101 posts)
50. What does that problem have to do with burdensome "regulations"?
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:11 AM
Apr 2015

on small businesses, or the tax code? Student loan debt is a problem, but that wasn't what they were talking about.

 

4dsc

(5,787 posts)
18. That was my first thought too
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:32 AM
Apr 2015

if I was blind and deaf and was told this I would think for sure she was a republican.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
4. Right. These hand picked round tablers were chosen because of
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 06:49 AM
Apr 2015

what they would say. Now Hillary has heard from the people she chose, who have offered her their opinions to which she already agreed.

Soon, she will be using the narrative in her stump speeches: "I spoke to Dave Businessman in Iowa who is struggling to keep going because of over-taxation. I heard from Jane Mother who told me...."

It's an artificial construct that is quite transparent. She's been planning her run for president since 2008 and in earnest the last two years. This slow "roll out" of her platform through a staged listening tour is silly. Following this frame her campaign is using, as of now her sole motivation in running is that she wants to win, personal ambition. Ambition is necessary, it is required, but it has to be supported by issues and policies.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
7. I'm willing to concede to the Hillary supporters that it's standard that campaigns
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 06:57 AM
Apr 2015

are filled with these kinds of things. And I'm willing to say I don't know why she's running. I'm actually struggling to find the positives with Hillary, mf- beyond that she's better than any republican and good, if not ahead of the curve on social issues such as marriage equality. It's hard to do when she's so opaque about policy.

I'm pretty resigned to her being the nominee, but I have grave concerns about her convictions and judgment.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
9. I don't disagree. Obviously, she's much better than any
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:01 AM
Apr 2015

Republican. I have concerns about what her policies are or will become. And I have concerns about her judgment, leadership and transparency. I don't trust her as a campaigner. What I mean by that, is I don't know that she would or could win the general election.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
8. Based on those words, I would say that various folks on DU were right.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 06:59 AM
Apr 2015

She doesn't need to worry about losing votes on the left, because she's not interested in them at all. She plans to win "crossover" Republican votes through patented Clinton triangulation. And unless Republicans actually do nominate someone who is seen as a real moderate, she's probably right. If the Repubs put up one of the Conservative whackadoodles, a lot of middle of the road Repubs will do just that and vote for the 'pro-business' candidate. She only runs into problems if it's another 'economic' Republican that gets run - Bush, Walker.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
10. I think she does want votes from the left, but she knows the left
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:09 AM
Apr 2015

is captive- we won't vote for repubs and most of us who are not supporters will vote for us. She's tossing out vague platitudes to the left about CEO pay and meaningless "solutions" like an utterly impossible Constitutional Amendment for CU. She's suddenly on board with Marriage Equality being a constitutional right- a year ago she said it should be left up to the states, and she waited to endorse that until it was clear that a majority supports it- hardly a profile in courage. Kind of like she waited years to repudiate her vote for the IWR.

She has a history of waiting to see which way the wind is blowing. That depresses me.

pangaia

(24,324 posts)
73. I tend to agree with your perceptions of the whole thing.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 09:18 AM
Apr 2015

There are so many to the extremes about her, your position' seems the most, well perceptive...to me.

Obviously everything, absolutely everything during each day is planned to the nth degree. This idea of a 'listening tour' makes me almost want to throw up. But, some group of advisers or come computer program has figured that this ridiculous concept will still be believed be enough people to pretend it is true.

ANYONE, who wants to be president mush have an absolutely tremendous ego, and be a little nuts in the bargain. Service to the country? maaaaybe a little, in certain people. But how many politicians really want to 'serve.' If they serve, why not do it for free? I know.. I know.

She does have her own take on things, I am sure. But she also, as any politician, will to whatever degree, follow the wind..

My plan was to never ever comment on any Clinton thread here, as I am already sick of hearing about her. Which of course was her plan from the start. Suffocate everything. Suck all the air out so no fires can start.

But your comments have been...well they seem to be made with non-attachment and, right or wrong, with eyes wide open.




pangaia

(24,324 posts)
97. You know, going back and reading my reply to you,
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 05:36 PM
Apr 2015

It sounded a little anti- Clinton.
That was not my intent at all.

I am neither for or against her----I don't honestly know the truth. but I am certainly for her against the opposition.



deutsey

(20,166 posts)
65. As a Bush, Jeb should be automatically disqualified from running
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:58 AM
Apr 2015

From his grandfather's dealings with the Nazis, to his father's failed presidency, to GW's disastrous two terms, to Neil and his Silverado fiasco, and God knows what else...a Bush always leaves the country and the world a much worse place than what it was before he came along (but they always come out of the mess a lot wealthier, somehow).

PassingFair

(22,434 posts)
82. Until she is forced to debate.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 10:18 AM
Apr 2015

Then the real issues will rear up.

I'm sending money to any democrat who is running against her.

Not that it's much...I think of it as paying for a ticket to a debate that I
REALLY want to hear.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
11. "Unnecessary regulation"....
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:10 AM
Apr 2015

.... like Glass-Stegall or the controls on derivatives removed by the Commodity Futures Modernization Act?

More pandering to the 1% so they can just finish off the middle class.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
12. I just want to know what she's referring to when she speaks about
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:15 AM
Apr 2015

red tape and unnecessary regulation. But I'm told repeatedly by her supporters it's unfair to ask her to expound and to give actual policies, that it's too early and she needs to hear from real people. And I think I'll keep hearing that for the next 6 months or so.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
13. I could probably agree....
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:20 AM
Apr 2015

.... that Dodd-Frank has some provisions that are of somewhat questionable value. But one has to keep in mind that this was done IN LIEU of what should have ACTUALLY been done, which is the reinstatement of Glass-Stegall.

The banks should shut up. They still get to gamble in the markets with taxpayer backed funds. What the hell else do they want?

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
29. I can give you an example of what she is probably talking about
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:44 AM
Apr 2015

I was going to open a small coffee shop and used bookstore and after 2 years of filling out paper work, trying to get a business license, trying to comply with rules and red tape, I gave up. it wasn't worth it. Paper work kept getting lost by the PTB and other stupid things. Maybe, if we made it easier for folks like me to open businesses, more small businesses would open.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
38. she doesn't say. I've been told repeatedly by her supporters
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:52 AM
Apr 2015

it's unfair to extrapolate and to wait. same has to hold true for you. Btw, it sounds as if you're talking about STATE regulations and red tape.

And I'd like to challenge your assertions. I live in Vermont which is consistently rated by the republicans as the worst state for small business start up because of our regulations and purported red tape. Funny isn't it that Vermont has one of the highest rates of entrepreneurship in the country:

http://money.cnn.com/gallery/smallbusiness/2013/06/18/best-places-entrepreneurs/2.html

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
47. Well, some of us can't afford to pack up and move to Vermont.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:02 AM
Apr 2015

And some of us would like to have small businesses right where we live without all the red tape that goes into opening one. As well, why should I be able to get the same tax breaks as a big business.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
51. Again, Vermont is rated repeatedly as one of the worst places for small businesses
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:16 AM
Apr 2015

because of the regulatory burden and taxes. And yes, we do have heavy regulation here. and taxes. Yet Vermont has lots of small business startups.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/2014-state-business-tax-climate-index

In any case, what YOU described is clearly STATE regulations. So what does Hillary have to do with that. Please tell me the FEDERAL regulations that hampered your attempts.

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
57. No, they were not all state regulations
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:37 AM
Apr 2015

With all due respect, some of this is personal information so perhaps you might try opening your own business and see if you have any of the same problems. Or talk to other small businesses to see what they might have gone through just to open up something.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
63. I have.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:51 AM
Apr 2015

And there is no respect in making assumptions.

in any case, I can see that we're not having a fruitful discussion. I don't see how revealing the federal regulations you found prevented you from opening your business are personal, but oh well.

The defensiveness with which so many of Hillary's supporters employ, makes discussion nigh on impossible.

Have a good day.

Cal Carpenter

(4,959 posts)
77. *raises hand*
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 09:29 AM
Apr 2015

I recently opened a small business - officially incorporated in early 2013, doors opened in late summer of that year. (and by small, I mean very small - me, my spouse and one employee who works ~10 hrs a week).

It wasn't super easy to navigate that stuff, but neither is the day-to-day operations in general. If you can't file some paperwork with the state and federal government on your own, or with a couple hundred dollars to a lawyer, then I would think it may be better off that you gave up.

I think the taxes and filings on both the state and federal level could be simplified, and should be simplified, but they aren't impossible to navigate. Aside from annual business taxes, I do it all myself - sales tax filings, payroll and unemployment taxes to feds and the state.

On top of that, I highly doubt this is what Clinton was talking about anyway in terms of red tape, but thanks to her vagueness it can mean anything to anyone (which is the point of most political rhetoric anyway).

You may want to consider that, among the hundreds/thousands of regular posters on DU, there are many of us who have started small businesses and can see through your misinformation.

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
86. Alright, dispense with the bullshit. Tell us the fed.gov regs that caused you to give up. And no
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 10:28 AM
Apr 2015

more of this "it's personal" bullshit.

Thank you.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
36. She's referring to the same thing Obama ran on in 2008 and 2012....
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:51 AM
Apr 2015

reform of our tax code, which right now gives big business advantages over small business.

Jeebus.....you are familiar with the Democratic Party Platform, yes?

boston bean

(36,223 posts)
39. It was in the context of America being ranked 46th in the creation of small business.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:56 AM
Apr 2015

And Barack Obama said the same exact thing in 2008.

My oh my, how soon people forget. Selective memory or something... maybe hypocrisy!

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
60. I can't find a quote from Obama saying the exact same thing
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:42 AM
Apr 2015

In any case, isn't it largely states responsible for small business regulation?

I did find this:

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2014/03/24/obamas-slams-small-businesses-with-excessive-regulations


I don't know how accurate a reflection it is of his sb policies.


there is a lot of conflicting information, a lot of conflicting claims.

And your snark is just defensive shit.

Hypocrisy seems to be coming from Hillary supporters too- I am not hypocritical. I do not have a selective memory. I certainly may not remember things or may never have aware of them. That doesn't make me hypocritical. It is hypocritical to tell Hillary critics that they shouldn't extrapolate from her statements and then procede to do so in a favorable manner.

I attempt not to doubt the motives of supporters. I sure don't get the same courtesy.

sendero

(28,552 posts)
88. That is because..
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 10:37 AM
Apr 2015

.... the bankers destroyed the economy with plenty of the Clinton's help. You are the one with no memory, or to be more charitable you probably never understood what is going on anyway.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
22. Unnecessary regulations are dirty words to me, especially when coming from a Clinton.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:40 AM
Apr 2015

Deregulation in the 1990s caused tangible harm to the American working people and the world economy.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
14. I'm really glad she's running and saying these things. I just wish ...
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:20 AM
Apr 2015

... she was running as a Republican.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
17. I find it disturbing that she's saying this stuff
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:29 AM
Apr 2015

and giving us no details.

So far, her campaign is not a surprise to me. She's coming out strong, if belatedly, on marriage equality. She's mentioning income inequality and the next day talking about over regulation of business. All in vague terms. Yes, I'm watching closely. Her supporters say I'm unfair, a hater, a basher. I'm not. I'm someone who pays attention and doesn't shut my eyes to inconsistencies.

Sancho

(9,070 posts)
15. What is gained by Hillary bashing?
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:24 AM
Apr 2015

At this point, there is NO WAY that ANY CANDIDATE will put a rock-solid policy statement out that will cost votes from the independents, middle-of-the-road voters, or demographic targets (women, etc.).

She is running a strategic campaign. Maybe it's a good plan, maybe not - but she obviously has advisors from Obama's camp and left over from Bill's campaign. She has experience as a politician and previous run.

These threads keep "demanding" policy and platform details that no experienced politician will ever put forward because that would only be fodder for criticism and alienate voters. Obama did the same thing - and frankly every winning President in my lifetime since the advent of TV and media has figured it out. Even JFK was an early winner by watching what he said on TV. Reagan essentially won on movie star personality, not policy or substance.

Hillary surely has awareness of TPP, regulatory agencies, economic policy, Wall Street, and universal medical care. The Democratic party will produce a platform with the primary winner; and they may or may not actually stick to it after the election.

Obama has been a mix of good and bad compared to his "promises", because every President is not just a set of policies. They make informed decisions based on intelligence, values, and judgment. Early bashing won't change anything unless another candidate steps forward that does better. I will vote for the Democratic candidate no matter who it is.

The most revealing thing Hillary has said so far is about an amendment to stop Citizen's United. The next President might appoint a couple Supreme Court judges. Those legal decisions may be the thing we look for in a candidate, but that is not a sexy issue that farmers and factory workers vote for, so the campaign will be a set of orchestrated publicity stunts just like all good candidates will do.

It's unlikely a detailed commitment to progressive policies will show up on stone tablets, so if you want to bash, it's an illogical criticism. I respect the debate, but more important issues at this point would be manipulation of the election, funding of elections, Democratic apathy to showing up to vote, and getting more winners in state elections.

Hillary is where she is because of numerous historical events that won't change at this point. No other candidate has a viable campaign yet. Instead of losing a close or manipulated election like happened under Bush - let's get a winner on the ticket no matter who it is...

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
23. You are wrong. The repub candidates and prospective candidates have given
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:40 AM
Apr 2015

specifics. They're horrific- and the major reason that I'll vote for Clinton in the general if, as is likely, she's the candidate- but they damn well are specific policies

You are wrong about Obama as well.

I am not looking for the perfect.

Your post is, alas, largely inaccurate and unresponsive.

and if you think the OP is bashing, that's just sad. There is nothing personal or insulting to Hillary in the OP.

As for whether or not her campaign is a good one, politically speaking, we'll just have to wait and see.

Sancho

(9,070 posts)
52. We'll just have to disagree then...
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:25 AM
Apr 2015

the Jeb's and Cristy's haven't put forward any more specifics than the usual generalizations. Rand Paul has some off the wall mandates that almost everyone thinks are silly. In fact, the GOP debates and early specific positions while fighting with each other hurt Romney and others in the last election (particularly with independents).

I'm certainly not wrong about Obama. He ran largely on emotions and speeches. His few specifics that he promised have sometimes happened, and sometimes not. He certainly has been a disappointment with Wall Street, TPP, and education. Still, Obama is a world better than any more Bushes, so I'm glad to vote for a Democrat. Obama has done what he could with his situation - with the exception that he might have gone after Wall Street as strongly as he did Bin Ladin.

I think the OP is bashing, especially in light of a series of similar OP's. In other words, why not OP's that target the primary process, election manipulation, and ways to improve primaries in general. If anti-Hillary is not your goal, then it just doesn't come across that way to me. I'll take you at your word for now. I suspect it would be better to hold the Democratic party responsible for details as much as any candidate.

Given the long-time awareness of Clinton attacks by the GOP, it's an obvious strategy to avoid giving the "right-wing conspiracy" something more to make movies and commercials out of, so developing a party platform as the campaign emerges makes sense. That way it's the party and campaign that takes the heat while building the independent base.

Hillary has historically demonstrated clear positions on women's rights, health care, and even a foreign policy agenda (again she was sometimes doing what Obama wanted, so maybe not what she would have done independently). She likely has some better ideas about education (her work in Arkansas was revealing), and has even moved in the Warren direction lately. It's obvious that she is listening. Obama is right about one thing, and Hillary seems to get it: an open war with the capitalists is not likely to be as good a winner as some kind of strategy to use courts and oversight to reign them in over time (if possible).

As you say, we'll just have to wait and see.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
89. Really?
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 11:36 AM
Apr 2015
At this point, there is NO WAY that ANY CANDIDATE will put a rock-solid policy statement out that will cost votes from the independents, middle-of-the-road voters, or demographic targets (women, etc.).

Chris Christie, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul and Ted Cruz say "Hi".

Sancho

(9,070 posts)
93. It's easy to be a loser....and I was mostly referring to Democrats, but it applies to repubs...
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 01:25 PM
Apr 2015

name me a primary winner in the last 4 decades who put out a solid set of promises almost 2 years before the election.

You make my point. Here's one of Rubio's statements on his website. It's nothing but fluff and party rhetoric!

"We should propose common sense, free-market ideas to make health care more accessible and affordable. Senator Rubio will focus on three goals: repealing and replacing Obamacare; allowing individuals to control their own health care choices; and returning control of health policy to the states. In January 2011, Senator Rubio signed on as an original co-sponsor—his first bill as a co-sponsor—of legislation introduced by U.S. Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) to fully repeal the health care bill that President Obama signed into law on March 23, 2010."

Here's some stuff from Cruz:

"Opposed the Obama Administration’s dangerous deal with Iran that would allow Iran to pursue nuclear weapons.

Spearheaded legislation passed unanimously by Congress and signed by the President to prevent known terrorists from entering the United States as ambassadors to the United Nations."

You can get a few statements here an there, but no winning candidate has a detailed platform before they are done with the primary. Even the statements you get are usually obvious (taxes, SS, etc.).

Notice what happened to Ross Perot (for example). Good old Marco has caught hell from all sides for nothing more than some introductory comments (like "1999" etc.).

Obama ran on "change" in the early days (remember). After he got into the debates, he set some goals (getting troops home, closing Gitmo, etc.). Some of those things happened. Obama and Hillary struggled to debate and find things they disagreed on...and tough issues like gay marriage were sidestepped even 10 years ago by our current President!

Even the newbie's like Christie, Rubio, and Paul are tip-toeing. Cruz is crazy. What good would it do to proclaim something that even the GOP won't support if you are the candidate. Rubio changes his immigration policy every day (I know, we hear every time he does).

The experienced politicians stick to generalities until they get much closer to the election. They have a party platform, and then they look for ways to win the last debate - and maybe they will come out with a promise or two to separate them from the pack or because its a winner in the polls with their likely voters. There no advantage in getting too specific too early. It only makes you a target.

on point

(2,506 posts)
19. Regulations are he problem is a RW talking point and she shouldn't be fostering it
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:35 AM
Apr 2015

Regulations are a problem if you are a corp predator and want to take advantage of others, trash the environment etc.If your business model can't handle the regulations, then you probably have too many externalities and shouldn't be in business.

Regulations can actually reduce costs, especially for the consumer.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
20. "I'd like to know what she meant by keeping the best parts of the ACA." Me, too.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:37 AM
Apr 2015

Does she intend to keep the expanded coverage and dump the insurance companies, getting us back to the original intent -- single payer?

I sure as hell hope so.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
26. I see no indication that she wants single payer- judging from the comments she made
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:42 AM
Apr 2015

about expanding insurance co competition in the states.

turbinetree

(24,720 posts)
70. I agree
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 09:06 AM
Apr 2015

We have been given a small insight into her thinking this time around---and it has problems lots of them and I do not trust her, she has a very strong senate voting record, but........
As for the clown show on the other side-----all of them are dangerous because they will have a combined corrupted campaign funding / bribing system of over 3+ billion.
And this next election is about the U.S. Supreme court no if's or and's about it-----it is always about the U.S. Supreme Court and when the voters think about this, all they have to do is look around them and see the damage this present court has eviscerated on the country

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
78. The Republicans have nothing to offer. Screw 'em.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 09:30 AM
Apr 2015

Let's get a viable candidate who supports our values unflinchingly.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
34. she stated that SP will not happen while she's president.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:49 AM
Apr 2015

So no. We will never get big insurance out of the government, thanks in large part to the ACA

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
68. I agree with that. And that should include all the Hillary supporters
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 09:03 AM
Apr 2015

in this thread who are doing just that.

I just want to know what she thinks should be changed in the ACA.

I will say that increasing competition across state lines for insurers, is problematic to me.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
75. I don't take orders from you.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 09:28 AM
Apr 2015

Obama barely managed to cobble ACA together, but she wants to start chopping, but not to give us what we all wanted.

So, yeah -- no guessing. She will not work toward single payer. We know that. I want someone else. No guesswork there: I do not support Hillary's candidacy in the Democratic primary. I want someone else.

Thanks, by the way, for pushing me off the fence.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
79. I didn't in any way, shape or form issue an order.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 09:59 AM
Apr 2015

and I'm not sure what fence you're talking about, but it's obvious that I don't support Hillary

Renew Deal

(81,877 posts)
85. I'm not giving orders. I'm making a suggestion.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 10:28 AM
Apr 2015

And what you chose to do is completely inconsequential to me.

"but she wants to start chopping" Link?

 

mylye2222

(2,992 posts)
24. Deregulating only leads to mass unemployement
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:40 AM
Apr 2015

and cheaper workforce used in develloping nations insted of in Western world, as corporatists prefer to walk on work and human right and decency.
This result in organized poverty in bith Western and eastern world, and on both side human rights regression.

Isnt that deregulating she praises that led to the endless economic crisis we are still living?

 

DrKZ

(53 posts)
98. Agreed
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:16 PM
Apr 2015

I agree with you ... when someone speaks of deregulation of business practices they are not speaking of a store you want to open or a small business ... we are talking of neoliberal trade practices that have created the sort of economy that we have right now where the rich get richer and those without continue to work harder and longer for less and less. It is an affront the union movement often couched in reformist language.
An example is educational "reform" which permitted the dismantling of our public education system in favor of educational management corporations bought and sold on the stock exchange. Regulations and red tape are things like teacher tenure and professionalism. At state universities most of the teaching force is now adjuncts who do not even get basic benefits.
Her deregulation has lead to disasters environmentally and the most slave labor used at any time in history (I am not being hyperbolic check the data here is a website speaking out against it).
Her neo-liberal economic policies are not the policies of what the democratic party ought to be about and that deregulation has not only led to the endless economic crisis but to environmental disasters ....

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
27. Obama ran on the same issue in 2008 and 2012....small business
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:42 AM
Apr 2015

Tax regs are no mean feat to deal with, and our tax code is skewed towards larger corporations rather than encouraging small businesses and startups. That needs change.

This has been the Democratic Party stance for about a decade now.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
28. Just close your eyes, everybody...
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:43 AM
Apr 2015

...and keep chanting "Supreme Court. Supreme Court."

Goddammit, this depresses me.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
32. I do appreciate that she will be honest about her corporatism. Obama's pretense of
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:46 AM
Apr 2015

populism was a crushing blow, and a big reason why the party has been decimated. With HRC we know what we're getting

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
44. I disagree. I see her sending conflicting messages to appeal/appease various
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:00 AM
Apr 2015

prospective constituents. Talk about income inequality and how CEO pay is too high, then talk about changing the ACA to allow for more free market competition and over regulation.

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
40. Well, judging by her donor list I'm sure economic deregulation would be a top priority.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 07:57 AM
Apr 2015

Citigroup and Goldman Sachs get what they paid for. The rest of us get the finger.

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
46. heard those exact same words from jack welch and wife yesterday touting their new book
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:02 AM
Apr 2015

"regulation is hurting economic growth".

Funny how the concern is with business and their growth. Seems to be a complete lack of concern for those who benefit from regulation - us lowly consumers/voters.

Hate to hear H moving (?) in this direction.

tiredtoo

(2,949 posts)
54. To all you folks calling Hillary a Republican here
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:27 AM
Apr 2015

Stop complaining and do something. Go to your local Democratic Party meetings and speak up. Spend a couple bucks and join the party. Volunteer for committees and let your voice be heard.
You can achieve better results from working on the inside than standing outside and shouting and fussing. If you do not believe that, just think about how the tea party has moved the Republican Party to the right.
You can do the same in the Democratic Party, if you get involved.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
55. Small businesses had been the backbone of America. Local over regulation & outright laws forbidding
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:28 AM
Apr 2015

small 'family home based businesses' have killed that American dream.

“Slowly over time, it’s become more difficult, more expensive, more red tape, unnecessary regulation that has put a damper” on economic growth"

BeanMusical

(4,389 posts)
56. Deregulation gave us this, 5 years ago:
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:33 AM
Apr 2015






I'm talking about the fervor for deregulation, the movement to eliminate federal laws that protect people and the environment.

That has been a battle cry for conservative politics for three decades. It was Ronald Reagan who famously made "get government off the backs of business," a winning strategy. And it was George W. Bush who pushed to rewrite the rule books for energy development on public property, rolling back protections for fish, wildlife, air and water under the banner of streamlining the nation's race for energy. That movement sought to turn 40 years of bipartisan environmental protection on its head, and it did.

Industry lobbyists and officials were appointed to key environmental positions with orders to make the environment safe for business -- especially the energy business. Agencies became boosters for development, not protectors of the public trust.
Louisiana's delegations, and most of its voters, cheered almost every step.

For our political leaders to act shocked that something like this could happen requires equal portions of gall and amnesia.


http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/oil_disaster_brought_to_you_by.html

bigtree

(86,005 posts)
58. as for a detailed platform
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:39 AM
Apr 2015

..."I will be rolling out very specific policies over the weeks and months ahead that I think are going to be at the core of not only a successful campaign, but much more importantly, getting our country to work again," Clinton told reporters.

She is expected to roll out her full policy platform in May or June, after a series of meetings like those of April 14 that will be held in early primary states.

http://www.indiawest.com/news/global_indian/maya-harris-to-head-hillary-clinton-s-senior-policy-advisor/article_6eb6ca02-e3c1-11e4-bae1-37b10b43a118.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026514523

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
59. "unusual for a candidate not to have their policies on most issues ready to go " < I think that
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:39 AM
Apr 2015

assumes they have some firm principles to start with.

bullwinkle428

(20,631 posts)
66. Cali, I heard the sound clip of her "Let's keep what works" comments about the ACA
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 08:58 AM
Apr 2015

in the context of a conversation with small business owners. It sure came across to me as a desire to carve it up like the Thanksgiving turkey! If nothing else, DU will become a VEEEEEERRRRRRY INTERESTING (apologies to Arte Johnson) place once President Obama's signature legislation starts getting dismantled brick by brick.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
69. More context is needed.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 09:04 AM
Apr 2015

But it is an accurate quote. Small business such as my own are inundated with regulations. I successfully steered my way through start up so it is easier on me today. What it does is it puts a barrier of entry in place for those thinking about starting their own small business. Today the game is rigged toward very large business. It is much easier for them to clear the barriers of opening up new locations, or a subsidiary swallowing up a whole new segment, putting mom and pops out of business. Evening the playing field by considering what it takes to start a small business in a big business world it a positive.

progressoid

(49,999 posts)
84. “before I roll out my policies, I want to hear from you on the front lines.”
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 10:27 AM
Apr 2015

So either she doesn't have concrete policies.

Or she's trying to find which way the wind is blowing before stating her policies are exactly what America wants.

 

Hell Hath No Fury

(16,327 posts)
92. "...unnecessary regulation ..."
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 12:51 PM
Apr 2015

Two words that generally have me running for the hills when said by a politician.

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