General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy is everyone referring to Clinton by her first name?
When discussing male politicians, we generally use their last name. It's Rubio, not Marco. It's Cruz, not Ted. It's Christie, not Chris. It's Warren, not Elizabeth.
Generally, this only breaks down when there is an especially high level of derision for the person. Like W instead of Bush.
It's generally considered respectful to use a politician's last name. So why are we all using Clinton's first name? Bill Clinton's not in the press, so it's really not confusing. Plus first names can be added as necessary, like I just did.
Sure, Clinton's referring to her campaign using her first name because she's trying to seem more friendly and approachable. But we don't have to follow suit.
ETA: Perhaps a better phrasing of this is "Why do we give Bill Clinton exclusive use of their last name?"
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)We're all also referring to Jeb as Jeb, too, not as 'Bush'.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)More like you dismissed the obvious.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Perhaps a misplaced familiarity, but obviiusly not an uncommon one. Hasbnothing to do with Bill Clinton owning the name for gads sake. Hell, call her Madam secretary if you wish. Or Senator.
I think most use Hillary to distinguish her from Bill.
Just like most use Jeb to distinguish him from GHWB or GWB.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I don't 'deride' someone by referring to them by their own names or chosen nicknames.
If you 'deride' someone, you do so by using a nickname you chose for them that 'diminishes' them.
JI7
(89,274 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)JI7
(89,274 posts)Or Rubio or any of the others when i refer to them by last name
Gidney N Cloyd
(19,847 posts)I think RFK back in the day got a lot of "Bobby." too.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)liberal N proud
(60,346 posts)Also, Hillary is a very powerful franchise.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)There's only one Clinton in the news recently. Not that hard to add "Bill" in the relatively rare cases when he shows up.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Probably not. But people aren't going to train themselves to refer to a candidate in a different way simply to please you (or me, or most anyone.)
If the candidate herself comes out and specifically asks people to refer to her as 'Clinton' (or 'Senator' or 'Madame Secretary') then I imagine a lot of folks would.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)It gets very confusing when there are two presidents or presidential candidates with the same last name.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)or because it's disrespectful or...?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)And if we call virtually every other politician by their last name. Even when Obama used Barack during his campaign.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)B. The reason why some women are annoyed is that the naming issue is a common one for professional women esp. after they get married. And what is sexist and/or disrespectful is to insist upon calling them something other than their preferred designation.
Hillary has chosen to be known publicly as Hillary, and therefore I call her Hillary. I strongly suspect this is because she never wanted to be known as "Mrs. Clinton". Early on she tried Hillary Rodham Clinton. Regardless, I call her as she choses to be known.
I am answering this time this way because I just realized you were sincere. Believe me, a woman in public life should properly be called as she wishes to be called. Anything else is sexist.
Cha
(297,693 posts)frogmarch
(12,159 posts)exactly.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)Why wouldn't she use it?
Many of us are old enough to remember the "Bill and Hillary" or "Billary" stuff, referring to her active participation while Bill was in office. That is an asset to her now.
Obviously her campaign has chosen to use it.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)earthside
(6,960 posts)former9thward
(32,082 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)former9thward
(32,082 posts)Got it...
jeff47
(26,549 posts)former9thward
(32,082 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)former9thward
(32,082 posts)Rahm Emanuel was referred to by posters as Rahm the vast majority of the time. I think many did not even know his last name. His opponent was referred to as Chuy rather than Garcia.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Arkansas Granny
(31,532 posts)I don't think it's a matter of disrespect.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)yet another Clinton. Doesn't mean we have to treat her differently than we treat other politicians.
FSogol
(45,529 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)FSogol
(45,529 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Several other politicians used the same tactic, at least for a while. Romney tried being Mitt for a while. Obama's campaign used Barack for a while in 2008.
H2O Man
(73,622 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Seems reasonable to ask why we strip her of her last name when we generally don't do that to politicians unless we particularly dislike them.
H2O Man
(73,622 posts)that this OP is of equal value to those focusing on pantsuits, hairstyles, etc.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)And talking about how we treat her differently than other politicians.
H2O Man
(73,622 posts)of the exact same value and interest as those.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Including the ones that complain about "everyone" attacking Clinton for trivialities like her hair and clothing.
Why treat her differently than virtually every other politician?
Why does Bill Clinton get exclusive rights to their last name?
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)If she called herself sonething else we'd use that. Just like we called Mitt 'Mitt' even though his name was Willard. It's respectful to ask how people want to be called and follow suit.
FSogol
(45,529 posts)confusing her with William Jefferson.
Of course, I wouldn't scold DUers for using the same term HRC uses to refer to herself.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)And always has?
BeyondGeography
(39,382 posts)This is only going to be fun if we all get to be eight years younger.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Your complaint doesn't make any sense to me.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)She is no longer serving in the Senate, Otherwise I would also use "Sen. Clinton". if she was still SOS the appropriate title would be Secretary Clinton.
I suspect if we get to the general and she's the nominee, more people will say "I'm voting Clinton", etc
treestar
(82,383 posts)Secretary Clinton?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)or Former Senator Clinton, that might work.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)and no longer do so.
But...but.....that's different. Or, something.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)I think it all comes down to how the name will be perceived.
spanone
(135,882 posts)googled this a minute ago.....
[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
https://www.google.com.mx/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=9mUsVdukGuun8wfj6IDABg&gws_rd=ssl#q=bill+clinton&tbm=nws
jeff47
(26,549 posts)That gives a lot more stories that don't talk about Bill Clinton.
spanone
(135,882 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)add Bill when necessary. Why does Bill get exclusive rights to their last name?
ETA: I assure you after always using "Clinton" for months, there has been no confusion as to which Clinton I am referring to.
This whole OP is ridiculous...
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)And popular.
I know that's a shock to many on this board, but there you have it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)When it's the candidate's own preferred nomenclature . . .
Enrique
(27,461 posts)because of reasons
jeff47
(26,549 posts)At least for a while. Didn't change what he was called.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Maybe some "Barack the vote" puns but pretty limited.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)I think you are not meaning to be rude, but you are being rude. I say this because I think you are serious about not being disrespectful.
Believe me, you are doing something akin to insisting on calling a woman "Mrs. or Ms. Somename" when she has been chosen to be publicly known by another name.
As president, she would probably be known as HRC, because no one's going to call her President Hillary. For now, just follow her lead.
tritsofme
(17,399 posts)You've said it a few times in this thread, but I don't recall Obama ever seriously branding himself or his campaign as "Barack"
forthemiddle
(1,382 posts)Is everything going to have a sexism connotation?
I am a woman, and a feminist, yet for a variety of reasons (mainly no more Clintons no more Bushs) I am not a Hillary Supporter.
When I point out that I think her age will be a detriment, will that be sexist? What about if I point out that I thought McCain, Thompson, and dole, and Reagan for that mater were too old?
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)forthemiddle
(1,382 posts)Let's just hope we can cure Alzheimer's before then (see Reagan)
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,343 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)For example, the list that was distributed along with the warning that they would be watching the media.
Hence my question. Why this blind spot where we grant exclusive use of their last name to Bill?
forthemiddle
(1,382 posts)Except for in this case she seems to want us to use Hillary.
Quite honestly in most of my posts I use Clinton only because I usually end it with the tag line
No more Clintons No more Bushs
edgineered
(2,101 posts)If she wins the primary I will vote for her, said for the sake of those who insist anything contrary to worshipping her is sacrilege. It's not like she's Judas you know. (damn, there's that first name thing again)
LWolf
(46,179 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)People forget that Hillary Rodham was Hillary Rodham until a backwards, mouth-breathing "think of the chillllllll-dren!!!" American public basically bullied her into taking her husband's last name. She's more HILLARY!!!!! than Clinton--a person unto herself.
And I really don't give a shit if Hillary calls herself "The Smartest Person In the Room" Rodham-Clinton, she's the best candidate running. By far.
yuiyoshida
(41,862 posts)I'm Yui! or you can call me Yoshida-san.
TBF
(32,100 posts)I think she has encouraged it with her "ready for Hillary" marketing. She's like Beyonce - she can use one name!
jeff47
(26,549 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)we almost always refer to male politicians. It's far less sexist to strip her of her last name and exclusively use "Clinton" to refer to Bill Clinton.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)They might mean something a bit different.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)PeteSelman
(1,508 posts)She's so familiar to everyone that she gets single name treatment. She's iconic.
This is a non-issue.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)H2O Man
(73,622 posts)You could have wrote "Tisk. Tisk."
Or you might have wrote "Tusk. Tusk."
Do you hate woolly mammoths? Or is it because you hate John Lennon for singing "I Am the Walrus"? It has to be one of those two.
Why did you do that? Come clean. Your conscience will be soothed.
Turbineguy
(37,370 posts)like "tu" and "vous".
jeff47
(26,549 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Hillary. All her brochures said it....remember "Hillary" everywhere?
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)Always has.
Some people really do create drama.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Talk about outrage on the simplest thing. This might take the prize.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)The price one pays for nepotism
tularetom
(23,664 posts)It isn't like Ms Clinton is the first politician to be called by her first name. I'm not one of her fans but what the fuck.
Maybe she subconsciously (or consciously) wants to get rid of that troublesome "Clinton" part. It might be a plus if she did.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The only other recent one I can think of is Lamar! Alexander.
IMO it's an attempt to seem more approachable and friendly - two areas where she polled poorly in her Senate race.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)The whole idea of your objection to others using it is laughable and seems rather petty.
JI7
(89,274 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)but not everyone knows that...........
JI7
(89,274 posts)But either way usually not referred to by last name itself
Enrique
(27,461 posts)we should call her Rodham. Like you, I think the fact that she uses Clinton is not relevant for a reason I will not explajn.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)complaining about her clothing, hair and other trivialities, it seemed like we weren't going to get to any important issues.
I forget, is this hour the time for the "Swear Loyalty Oath" post, or the "You Don't Have a Declared Candidate So Shut Up" post? I forget which one is on the even hours, and which one is on the odd.
We won't be getting back to important issues for about a year and a half.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)*smh*
jeff47
(26,549 posts)like "Everyone at DU Must Swear Loyalty Oaths" or "I'm so angry at people not liking Clinton. They're just Haters!"
I don't expect many serious posts for the next year and a half.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)But criticizing people for calling her what she asks to be called is a bit absurd. Her logo's a big H. H is for Hillary. Thats what she wants to be called. Who are you to tell her she should only accept being called "Clinton"?
William769
(55,148 posts)The first time she was First Lady and I addressed her as such. The second time was at a small private dinner when she was a senator and I addressed her as Senator Clinton & she surprised me & said please call me Hillary which I did. My third engagement with Hillary was at a fundraiser at which time I referred to her as Hillary and we had a great conversation.
That is why I call her Hillary and I suppose why most people do because that's what she prefers.
Is this covered in your OP?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)So for the rest of us teeming masses, why not show the default respect we show other politicians?
William769
(55,148 posts)Hillary is very personable and is not standoffish as people would want us to believe.
If Hillary is fine with it, so am I.
P.S. If I had engaged with her when she was S.O.S., I would have addressed her accordingly. And if she becomes our President I would address her as President Clinton. Until then, Hillary works great!
jeff47
(26,549 posts)PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Response to jeff47 (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I don't either.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)To refer to Hillary Clinton the way she refers to herself and the way her campaign refers to her? That's quite a stretch. People have given you the reasons why they feel it's not that unusual- another president Clinton, it's how the campaign refers to her. You don't like that this more familiar term is being used, so you're dismissing those. I'd also say there aren't a lot of Hillary public figures atm, so when one says Hillary it's perfectly clear who they're talking about (same with Jeb. If Michelle Obama ever ran that might not be the case)
This op seems to be kind of belittling actual sexism that is unfortunately going to be a factor in this campaign to take a swipe at Hillary.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)There are more...I'm not all that hep. Is it OK they are "entertainers"? This is such a ridiculous subject. Give it a rest.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)See?! Last name = penis!! Penis rhymes with Clenis! ahhhhhh!
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Dr. Strange
(25,925 posts)Are we really supposed to believe that "jeff" comes from your last name?
NYC Liberal
(20,136 posts)tritsofme
(17,399 posts)most memorable and enduring American political slogans, ever.
But the answer to your question as to why do we generally refer to Bill as Clinton and Hillary by her first name is pretty simple. When you see an article referring to "Obama" do you stop and ponder if they are talking about Michelle? Of course not. Bill came to public prominence first, he was president she was first lady. He was the dominant story as their public image evolved over the last 30 years, and we all settled into the shorthand that we have today.
What would be the purpose of changing now, especially as Hillary has built her brand around well...being Hillary?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)those same people call President Obama, "Obama" (sans, the President part).
Just wait until she is President (if she is elected President).
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)And usually when you know someone (or think you do) you refer to them by their given name, which in this case, happens to be Hillary.
Plus, as many before me have stated, it's what she prefers.
realFedUp
(25,053 posts)She's accessible.....think Madonna, Beyoncé et al, asshole.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Is this some sort of Andy Kaufmanesque joke?
If so....
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)hmmmmm....
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)write you a nasty email saying she prefers to be called something else?
Really, I wouldn't worry about it unless she starts to complain herself.
If she doesn't complain, then maybe anybody with a problem referring to her only using her first name should just drop it.
IMO.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)I'm sure it's a way to differentiate herself from Bill...and perhaps the team (or HRC herself) feels it's more "user-friendly" than using Rodham-Clinton (as an alternate way to differentiate from Bill, for example).
She's well-known enough to get by with just her first name, if she chooses. Like Charo, Madonna, Liberache, Zendaya...
And we call Sanders "Bernie" more often than we call him "Sanders."
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...enough?
brooklynite
(94,739 posts)That was her slogan in 2008.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I usually use HRC.
RandySF
(59,244 posts)They didn't say "Clinton", they said Hillary. Some people become known populalry by their first names or initials. When I was a kid and Michael Jackson was at the height of his career, everyone called him "Michael".
doxyluv13
(247 posts)1. She's been Hillary since she was First Lady.
2. From an anthropological standpoint, a nickname is a sign of closeness and affection.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)She's not my cup of tea, but "Sec. Clinton" just works better.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Hekate
(90,828 posts)romanic
(2,841 posts)And cause that's what she goes by in her campaign. Stop trying to make something out of nothing OP.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)There is a bit of overlap but I think it's contextual. If I mention Bill anywhere, I'll say Hillary somewhere to differentiate. But generally I say Clinton, because the context is obvious.
Omaha Steve
(99,730 posts)Compared to some things R's are saying, Hillary is good!
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)choice with Little Rock. Too feminist and all that. She was the first woman hired to be an associate at any Little Rock law firm. Not partner mind you. First woman lawyer at a big firm. It was then, not now.
Eventually she added Clinton to the Hillary Rodham name. Hillary is her name, the one she stared with, the one she is known by.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)a successful presidency.