Robert Kennedy Jr. warns of vaccine-linked ‘holocaust’

[SidDithers]

With lawmakers preparing to vote on a bill blocking parents from skipping vaccinations for their children, prominent vaccine skeptic Robert F. Kennedy Jr. arrived at the Sacramento screening of a film linking autism to the vaccine preservative thimerosal and warned that public health officials cannot be trusted.

“They can put anything they want in that vaccine and they have no accountability for it,” said Kennedy, who walked onto and left a Crest Theater stage to standing ovations, of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Wednesday afternoon will see the first hearing for a bill eliminating the personal belief exemption parents can cite in order to avoid vaccinating their kids. Senate Bill 277 was prompted by soaring exemption rates in some schools districts and outbreaks of long-dormant diseases like measles and whooping cough.

Kennedy has credited the film Trace Amounts with helping to persuade lawmakers to halt a vaccination measure in Oregon. Advocates offered free Trace Amounts tickets to every California lawmaker, visiting offices in the State Capitol on Monday to drop them off. Three rows cordoned off for lawmakers sat empty on Wednesday evening, though some staff members attended.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article17814440.html



Oh look, anti-vax asshat RFK Jr. is pimping an anti-vax movie. And he's working against SB277 in California.

Shocked. Shocked I am.

Sid

[cali]

1. holocaust, my ass. I posted this the other day. Glad you're posting it again.

[SidDithers]

2. Sorry, I missed it...

I saw the news about RFK Jr. in Orac's blog post at scienceblogs:

The annals of “I’m not antivaccine,” part 15: California SB 277, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., and the vaccine “holocaust”

Check it out. Gorski pulls no punches in his disdain for Kennedy.

ETA from Orac:

I bring this up because a certain antivaccine crank, someone I’ve been writing about just shy of a decade now has over the last several months been trying to deny that he’s antivaccine, even going so far as to call himself “fiercely pro-vaccine” back in September. Yes, I’m referring to Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., one of the crankiest of antivaccine cranks out there. RFK, Jr. is utterly convinced, against all evidence otherwise, that the mercury-containing preservative thimerosal that used to be in childhood vaccines in the US until around the end of 2001, when it was removed from nearly all of them, is a major cause of the “autism epidemic,” as he spreads conspiracy theories about the CDC so obviously nonsensical that I almost feel embarrassed for him. Almost. His arguments in general are so full of crankery that it’s hard not to feel contempt for him.

So what’s he up to this time? Well, lately, RFK, Jr. has been doing his utmost to assist antivaccine advocates and “health freedom” activists to defeat SB277 in California. SB277, as you might recall, is a bill introduced by State Senators Richard Pan and Ben Allen that would repeal the personal belief exemption to school vaccine mandates. Seemingly every major antivaccine activist in the country has been invading California to try to defeat the bill, including, of course, RFK, Jr. had to be part of the action, while promoting his antivaccine movie Trace Amounts.

Sid

[cali]

3. thanks. really appreciate Orac.

[proverbialwisdom]

35. "Thimerosal: Let The Science Speak" shows Orac is wrong, as does CDC scientist Dr. Bill Thompson.

Crankery? During his recent Commonwealth of California event (link below), he said he's eager to debate anyone (including his detractors) on the material presented in the book. Incidentally, the coauthors (Hyman, Herbert, Kennedy) held off publishing for one year after giving their book to the CDC, FDA and HHS.

http://fox13now.com/2015/04/06/robert-f-kennedy-jr-talks-about-link-between-ingredient-in-vaccines-and-autism/

“If somebody can show me a single study, one study, if any of the doctors you’ve mentioned can show me a single study that shows that thimerosal is safe, I will go on Anderson Cooper and publicly apologize. I challenge you. Find me one study.”

~Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

More:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017257265
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026435011#post57
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017206443

FYI, AOA has Dr. Paul Offit's letter (public record, no direct link) RE: Oregon Bill SB0442 to eliminate philosophical belief exemptions from vaccinations here: http://www.ageofautism.com/2015/04/offit-jumps-shark-orders-starbucks-plays-armchair-psychologist-in-support-of-oregon-bill.html

http://www.ageofautism.com/2015/04/kennedy-at-the-commonwealth-club-and-the-fight-for-california.html

...Kennedy talked about four scathing reports by federal agencies over the past couple years that paint the CDC and their relationship with vaccines as a "cesspool of corruption." There was a three year study by the House Oversight Committee in 2000, a follow-up study which said the conflicts of interest were "debilitating the agency," a 2004 study by Senator Tom Coburn, a 2008 study by the Inspector General of Health and Human Services, and a 2014 study by the Office of Research Integrity in which the head of the office, David Wright, resigned because he said the dysfunction at the CDC and FDA were "intractable."

In discussing how this came to happen, he cited the removal of vaccines from the civil justice system by the creation of the Vaccine Court in 1986, and the vast amount of money spent by the pharmaceutical industry in the political process (twice that of oil companies), and among the news networks (sometimes 70% of their advertising revenues). The lawyers have been taken out of the process, the regulatory agencies, the politicians, and the press neutralized.

Some interesting information was revealed by Kennedy about CDC whistleblower, Dr. William Thompson. Thompson invoked federal whistleblower status this summer and hired leading whistleblower attorney, Morgan VerKamp, to represent him on his claim that his superiors had required him to lie for the past ten years about the connection between vaccines and autism. He has turned over tens of thousands of pages of documents to Congress and has "asked" to be subpoenaed by Congress. The matter is currently before Congressman Jason Chaffetz's Oversight committee. Kennedy related how the chief of staff of Chaffetz's office had said that these documents, when they are released, "are not just a smoking gun, but a wildfire that will burn CDC to its foundations."

Kennedy talked of how he had been present when his family started what became known as "Special Olympics" and they never saw a child with autism. He talked about how the severe problems of these children cause their parents to essentially "disappear" from society and political discourse because they are just trying to get through the day managing their lives and their children. To say that this problem was missed in previous generations was 'like missing a train wreck." He recalled how he had been in Utah the previous night, which has both the highest vaccination rate and the highest autism rate, 1 out of every 39 kids...

[NuclearDem]

38. Ah, that Thompson non-story again.

[SidDithers]

39. Your assertion that 'Andrew Wakefield is the Carl Sagan of his generation' ...

shows that you have absolutely no fucking credibility on this issue.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4479433

Sid

[proverbialwisdom]

42. That's your response? Really?

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10026275897#post29

As described, it's irrelevant.

[SidDithers]

47. Nope...

It's entirely relevant.

Own it.

Sid

[proverbialwisdom]

53. Heard of Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis? That's Kennedy's analogy to the reception to Wakefield's work.

Audio and video here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017257265

You owe it to yourself to have a listen (even if only as you multitask). Overlook any meta remarks or quips (yes, I cringed) because they distract by facilitating headlines like the title of this thread. Not perfect, IMO, but definitely worthwhile listening. Check it out.

Developing...

[snooper2]

88. thanks for showing up to the thread, it just wouldn't be the same

[proverbialwisdom]

143. Thanks for being cordial; the focus on RFK Jr's opinions are a diversion from the facts he presents.

[zappaman]

144. No they're not.

His opinions should be the focus since they don't jive with the facts .
That's the point...

[proverbialwisdom]

147. OBJECTIVE FACTS (post #35) he exposes are not erased by his blunt inflammatory OPINIONS (OP title).

Sorry, disagree.

[Smithryee]

54. Agreed. Anyone who brings up Wakefield or Thompson in regards to thimersol has already

lost.

[proverbialwisdom]

90. Uh, that would be Dr. Paul Offit.

I expanded a single paragraph into 4 separate sentences:

http://www.ringoffireradio.com/2015/02/cdc-scientist-still-maintains-agency-forced-researchers-lie-safety-mercury-based-vaccines/

...A senior CDC vaccine safety scientist, Dr. William Thompson, has invoked the protection of the Federal Whistleblower Statute following the release of his taped conversations disclosing pervasive corruption within CDC’s Vaccine Safety Division.

Dr. Thompson, a sixteen year veteran and a senior scientist at CDC’s Immunology Safety Office is currently employed at CDC’s National Center for Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities.

Thompson is an author of two of the three epidemiological studies on American population touted by CDC to “prove” the safety of Thimerosal against developmental disabilities...

The vaccine industry’s foremost spokesman and the world’s premier champion for Thimerosal in vaccines, Dr. Paul Offit, stated in 2008 that Dr. Thompson’s “wonderful” 2007 study was the “definitive” study on Thimerosal safety.

[proverbialwisdom]

97. CDC vaccine safety scientist Dr. William W. Thompson researched MMR and thimerosal BOTH.

Kennedy, Hyman, and Herbert book - thimerosal (vaccine preservative) ONLY

CDC vaccine safety scientist Dr. William W. Thompson - MMR and thimerosal BOTH

Pediatric gastroenterologist Dr. Andrew Wakefield - MMR (live vaccine, multiple variants, have never contained thimerosal) ONLY

ALL MIXED UP BY THE WASHINGTON POST HERE:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/04/08/shock-ads-the-holocaust-and-domain-squatting-the-intense-fight-over-a-new-california-vaccine-bill/

By Abby Ohlheiser April 8 at 5:33 PM

...And, on Tuesday, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. — a vaccine requirement opponent — spoke at a screening of a film called “Trace Amounts,” which claims to provide evidence of a link between autism and a preservative ingredient used in vaccines. That link is not supported by the overwhelming body of scientific research on the subject and was popularized by a now-retracted and discredited study based on research by British doctor Andrew Wakefield.

[yurbud]

60. Did they ask this whistleblower to cover up studies showing harm or just stop sharing his opinion?

[proverbialwisdom]

85. Why ask me? What have you learned? Read around and please share. Developing...

By the way, I wouldn't impugn anyone's motive including the unspecified "they" in your question regarding regulatory capture, etc. Altruistically protecting a program "for the greater good" might involve the same unscientific actions as what are alleged. Here's where it can get ugly fast.

Let the science speak. Oh, isn't that a book title? (Sorry)

[yurbud]

157. this isn't a primary issue for me, so I hoped that someone paying more attention

had that information readily available.

If not, that's ok.

[Oneironaut]

67. Asks for evidence, but "trust no one!11!!!"

That makes no sense unless if you view it from the eyes of a movement desperately trying to shield their minions from facts. This is obvious bullshit because any real evidence would be explained away as being created by a conspiracy.

These are the confirmation bias kings. If the only legitimate evidence to anti-vaxers is more anti-vax nonsense, then stop being fools and asking for evidence.

[proverbialwisdom]

87. Few read the actual science; most, therefore, lack understanding of the limitations and flaws ~RFKjr

Kennedy, Hyman, and Herbert comprehensively collected the science in Thimerosal: Let the Science Speak. That's "795 peer-reviewed publications and references from published literature describing animal, clinical, toxicological, pharmacological, and cadaver studies linking thimerosal to..."

Did you watch the live stream hearing yesterday? Approximately 400 individuals stated their opposition to SB277. Many, many jaw-droppingly stated that they were the parent or relative of a "vaccine injured" child.

Next, SB277 goes to the Education Committee on 4/15 at 9am. Don't miss it.

http://www.calchannel.com/live-webcast/

LIVE Webcast

California Legislative Hearings

MORE: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026256049

[alp227]

104. RFK jr. is still parading his discredited thimerosal nonsense,

after his original article parading his nonsense was retracted by Salon and Rolling Stone?

[proverbialwisdom]

125. Ten years of new peer-reviewed research trump the retractions by Salon & Rolling Stone in 2005.

And now he's joined by two physicians (Dr. Mark Hyman, MD, and Dr. Martha Herbert, MD, PhD) in their new book, Thimerosal: Let the Science Speak.

Additionally, senior CDC vaccine safety scientist Dr. William W Thompson provides strong indirect support in conversations about his own research on thimerosal recently taped by Dr. Brian Hooker.

[alp227]

127. Thompson has been discredited, too.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/cdcwhistleblower.asp

As has Hyman: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/10/05/mark-hyman-deceives-about-science-resear/

[proverbialwisdom]

136. Snopes trumps allegations by a whistleblower/law firm prior to a formal Congressional investigation?

Check it out:

http://www.morganverkamp.com/august-27-2014-press-release-statement-of-william-w-thompson-ph-d-regarding-the-2004-article-examining-the-possibility-of-a-relationship-between-mmr-vaccine-and-autism/

http://touch.orlandosentinel.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-81317483/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1032973

Sorry, not likely. Developing...

[mcar]

4. Not this woo s#!$ again

When will they stop peddling this nonsense?

[mmonk]

14. Apparently never.

[MosheFeingold]

17. It's been going on since I was a little kid (and I fought in WWII)

I remember distinctly people claiming the Salk Vaccine (which was in the late 40s or early 50s, I was a lawyer by then, so well after WWII) was a Jewish plot and we were trying to sterilize the "goy."

Used to be it was mainly Republicans/Dixiecrats who were anti-vaccine. Now the luddites have moved over, at least in part. Yuck.

It seems the horrors of iron lungs and at least 2-3 kids in each of your kids' school classes having braces from Polio (which I also remember) has been lost on people.

[Archae]

51. Even in the 1950's the anti-polio vaccines were called a "communist plot."

[DawgHouse]

152. What in the world is Mental Hygiene? Psychology?

[Archae]

153. I have no idea.

For all I know, it was something the right-wing simply made up for their "anti-communism" crusades.

[DawgHouse]

154. Geez, I did a little research but I don't understand why

there was fear about Mental Hygiene.

http://www.faqs.org/childhood/Me-Pa/Mental-Hygiene.html

[Archae]

155. Just watch "Dr Strangelove," the character Jack Ripper was an example of this mentality.

"I don't understand it, so it's COMMUNIST!"

[NuclearDem]

5. Asshats will be asshats.

[geek tragedy]

6. The David Irving of vaccine woo nt

[cali]

7. a very good comparison.

[wendylaroux]

8. has he

lost his gd mind????!!!!!

http://www.whoopingcough.net/cough-child-muchwhooping.wav

[ChairmanAgnostic]

36. yes.

Unfortunately, he exhibits the same "concrete" thinking and ideation that many conservative christians and ultra-conservative GOPers display, with the same chance of convincing them rationally that they are full of shit.

[Surya Gayatri]

9. Flamebait, flamebait!

Poor RFK Jr. is really struggling to maintain his fifteen minutes of fame...

Time to go quietly back to Hyannis and do some fishing, Bobby.

[Starry Messenger]

10. He should do *my* fucking job.

Twice I've been exposed to whooping cough without health coverage (I'm covered and T-Dapped now, thanks Obama!) while working as an adjunct off-site at a high school. The first time it happened was the first time I'd ever heard that kids were allowed into schools without their vaxx. So pissed.

*I* had to be tested for TB, but I can get exposed to some disease that should have been eradicated along with hoop skirts.

FU RFK. Jr.

[randome]

11. Eventually he'll become so unhinged he'll be toxic, the fate of most demagogues.

But how many people will suffer in the meantime?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[hatrack]

12. Dude needs to buy a clue. He's done a lot of good environmental stuff, but . . .

This is just embarrassing - and dangerous.

[Orrex]

13. Wow.

K/R

[SunSeeker]

15. Ug. Wish he would use his family name for good instead of evil. nt

[billhicks76]

16. UnAnimous

So it's unanimous here that vaccines don't cause autism. My friend here in Oregon was forced to get vaccinated to attend the state university and she didn't realize she was pregnant. Her son was born autistic. Since it's definitely not vaccines as evidenced by the consensus of DU experts then we should be as adamant pursuing why autism rates have skyrocketed 500%. I also have a friend whose baby died at 6 days old due to a defective heart valve caused by Plaxil. There was a class action law suit. Perhaps there is something in the air or water creating a generation of autistic kids.

[cali]

19. born autistic? How does she know that?

Autism is NEVER diagnosed that early.

And it's not the "DU experts" who have stated definitively that vaccines don't cause autism, it's the VAST MAJORITY of scientific research.

[billhicks76]

158. Because He's A Teenager Now

[MosheFeingold]

20. I have a Rhino whistle

I blow it every day. I have yet to see a single rhino here at my house. Clearly works.

Seriously, correlation does not equate to causation.

[Orrex]

72. Quit blowing that damn thing!

It sends them to my house! We're lousy with rhinos over here!

[billhicks76]

159. Duh!

You have a Rhino whistle that makes rhinos come if you blow it. When you do no Rhinos come. Therefore the Rhino whistle doesn't work? Or Rhinos don't exist? I'm just surprised there wasn't one comment about what really is causing the astronomical rise in autism. It seems as if people here have a predetermined mindset and comment more politically than anything else.

[mmonk]

22. Documented cases go back to the 1700's.

My oldest son is autistic but very much his own person.

[groundloop]

25. I feel for anyone with an autistic child.... HOWEVER

Scientific evidence overwhelmingly has proven that there is no link between autism and vaccinations. Did you ever stop to consider that the child would have been autistic had your friend not been vaccinated?

I can vaguely remember seeing people who had to live with leg braces and who had severely deformed spines because of polio. We certainly don't want to go back to those days, not when it's totally and easily preventable.

[billhicks76]

160. Just An Anecdote

[jeff47]

26. 1) Kids are not "born autistic". It can't be diagnosed until they are older.

2) The criteria for autism has not remained constant over the timeframe you cite. Autism used to only be diagnosed when it was a severe mental illness. Now the criteria is far more broad. As a result, you're going to get a lot more diagnoses.

In fact, there are doctors agitating for being "shy" towards others means autism. Which will be great since more than 50% of people will be autistic and we can start treating all you outgoing bastards.

[ProfessorGAC]

27. You're Kidding, Right?

One person knows two people and that is the reason to insult the "experts" as you call them, here at DU?

You absolutely have to know enough about science to know the difference between data and one off coincidence.

[billhicks76]

161. I Didn't Say I Believe Or Not

I just thought it interesting the disparaging tone here and thought it said as much about the commenters as the topic. Is anyone even interested in the causes of the rise in autism or does everyone just like patting each other on the back?

[geek tragedy]

31. science, you should learn it nt

[billhicks76]

162. Learn To Read First

[LeftishBrit]

40. Diagnostic criteria for autism have changed in recent years

In the past few people were diagnosed as autistic, because there was little awareness of the disorder. So high-functioning autistic/Aspergers individuals were 'maladjusted', 'emotionally disturbed' or just 'odd'; and lower-functioning autistic people were just 'mentally handicapped' without qualification, or were 'childhood schizophrenics/ psychotics' (a diagnosis almost never used now).

In 2009, Simon Baron-Cohen and colleagues did a large-scale study in the UK where children, younger adults and older adults were assessed according the current criteria used for diagnosing autism. The rate was identical in the different age-groups: about 1%. The only age difference was that many of the children were already diagnosed on the autistic spectrum, while most of the adults had other diagnoses or none. Thus, there is no evidence for an actual increase in the number of people with autism.

But indeed, with regard to your last sentence, pollutants in the air and water are probably causing a lot more health problems in both children and adults than any vaccines ever did!

[Kurska]

44. Because in actual clinical studies, children who are vaccinated are not anymore likely to get autism

Than those who aren't.

Which is a finding that has been replicated over and over and over and over.

Also it never occurs to people that autism rates have always been the same, it is just we're actually diagnosing autism now.

[Oneironaut]

68. "I ate a sandwich when I was pregnant. Sandwiches cause autism."

I'm trying to point out here how you're implying causation. This isn't evidence.

[snooper2]

89. are you going to respond to anyone?

[progressoid]

124. Dude, it's cellphones that cause autism. Duh.

http://cellphonesautism.com/

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/11/27/how-cell-phones-may-cause-autism.aspx

[sakabatou]

146. Or it could just be that it's better recognized

Or over-diagnosed. The paper that said autism and vaccines were related was retracted. As for saying it's completely environmental, I call BS in my opinion.

[billhicks76]

163. I wondered that but

I assumed we weren't in the dark ages a decade ago.

[treestar]

18. How did a Kennedy manage to lose his mind?

They are usually well educated. His genes are pretty good. Good grief, what would his Dad think of this?

[cali]

21. huh? there is a lot of evidence that the Kennedy's have had more than their share

of difficulties with mental health issues.

Hell, Robert has had his problems with that.

[arcane1]

56. They are human beings just like the rest of us, only born rich.

Being born rich doesn't prevent one from being a credulous idiot.

[Major Nikon]

76. Heroin is a helluva drug

[COLGATE4]

108. I knew him just after Bobby was assasinated in 1968.

His family decided he needed a change of scenery so they sent him on an organized 'homestay' to Europe. He prepared for it with an organization where I worked in Vermont. He was an asshole as a teenager and is an asshole now.

[Warren DeMontague]

140. There's another one running around desperately trying to save the drug war and pot prohibition.

I dont fucking get it, but I guess if one was addicted to legally prescribed opiate pain pills, it makes sense to rail against pot smoking because, uh, I forget

[mountain grammy]

23. No, Bobby, you are wrong.

Now go home and be grateful you were born into a rich family so you can afford to keep your silly ideas.

[onecaliberal]

24. Oh fer Christ sake.

Go away already RFK.

[NYC_SKP]

28. It would seem that his issue is not with vaccines but with the preservative 'thimerosal'. Go RFKJr!

People sure like to jump on him.

Says more about them than about the issue, IMO.

Sad, really.

Thiomersal
Pharmaceutical
Thiomersal, commonly known in the US as thimerosal, is an organomercury compound. This compound is a well established antiseptic and antifungal agent. The pharmaceutical corporation Eli Lilly and Company gave thiomersal the trade name Merthiolate. Wikipedia

Surely, anything from the medical industry is safe safe safe!

Thalidomide
Prescription drug
Consult a doctor if you have a medical concern.
Treats and prevents erythema nodosum leprosum, a skin disease caused by leprosy. Used in combination with dexamethasone to treat multiple myeloma.

[cali]

29. Thimerosal hasn't been in childhood vaccinations for years with the exception of the flu vaccine

and there is no mandate that children get the flu vaccine.

So yeah, he's full of lying shit.

[msanthrope]

46. It's not in children's flu mist, at all. nt

[Major Nikon]

78. It's not in anything that is single use

[msanthrope]

79. True. nt

[LeftishBrit]

43. Most vaccines do NOT contain thimerasol nowadays...

and the MMR vaccine, most commonly blamed for autism by the cranks, never did contain it.

Saying 'vaccines don't cause autism' does not equal 'all medicines are safe'. Anything powerful enough to cure is also powerful enough to have side-effects (whether provided by 'the medical industry' or by Nature: e.g. sunlight - vital for health, but can cause cancer). And most anti-cancer drugs, whether thalidomide or anything else, should not be taken in pregnancy as they work by interfering with cell division, which is disastrous for a developing foetus.

[Major Nikon]

83. It never was a problem anyway

It was never anything more than a bright shiny object. All the quacks have done is pretty much quashed multi-use vials which made vaccinations cheaper and more accessible to the most unfortunate.

[SidDithers]

84. Exactly...

In fact, the World Health Organization has recommended that thimerosal be added back into certain vaccines, so that they may be more easily distributed in developing countries.

http://www.who.int/wer/2012/wer8721.pdf

Sid

[Major Nikon]

105. Not just easier, cheaper

Cheaper means more can be vaccinated for the same costs. More expensive means more dead kids. That's what the anti-vaxxers do.

[HockeyMom]

91. Flu shots do

http://www.publix.com/-/media/documents/pharmacy/immunization-consent-forms/immunization-consent-fl.ashx

Publix Supermarkets in Florida set up tables and was giving out free flu shots. Actually, stopping shoppers. Read the consent form. Thimerasol. Read that about allergy to cleaning products. I cannot use chlorine products or I break out in hives. Locally they put trace amounts in the drinking water. I could not get rid of these hives until I realized this and bought bottled water and put a special filter on my shower.

No Thimerasol? It is perfectly safe?????

[LeftishBrit]

107. Most kids don't get them, though.

In the UK at least, the majority don't get the flu vaccine at all; and most kids who do, get the nasal spray.

Nothing in life is 'perfectly safe'. A woman was just convicted of murdering her child with salt; but that doesn't mean that we are going to stop using salt. In any case, I am not saying that vaccines are perfectly safe; I am saying that they don't cause autism.

[AtheistCrusader]

132. ONLY the multi-dose vials.

All single dose vaccines, flu included, have no thimerosal. Some may still have a disclaimer that mentions it, but its generic legalese.

[LiberalArkie]

126. Merthiolate - Isn't that the stuff our parents put on us kids when we cut ourselves

kind of orange in color..

just looked it up.. my mom used Mercurochrome, same as the other mercury in it.. How come we are still alive?

[AtheistCrusader]

134. because its an organic compound of mercury.

Just like the arsenic in an apple is the organic variety.

That cut stuff was called wool fat when my parents used it.

[Act_of_Reparation]

129. Thalidomide? LOL.

Thalidomide was patented by Chemie Gruenthal in 1954. Clinical trials began in 1956. In 1957, doctors began prescribing the drug to pregnant women as an anti-emitic. In 1961, the drug was found to be unsafe for pregnant women was subsequently pulled from the market.

That the drug was widely distributed or widely held to be safe is absolute horseshit. It's time on the market was ultimately short-lived and was confined primarily to Europe. It was never widely distributed in the United States. Fuck, it wasn't even approved by the FDA.

Thiomersal, meanwhile, has been in common usage since at least 1931, and in that time has been subject to study after study after study after study, and in not one case has any link between thiomersal and adverse health outcomes been demonstrated.

Not that it matters, because thiomersal isn't even in most vaccines these days... not to mention clinical trials regulations have progressed somewhat since the days when the frisbee was still considered a novel fucking invention.

So, here you stand, demonstrating nothing but your abject ignorance of both history and science.

[Warren Stupidity]

149. Well they both start with "Th".

Add another voice here to the FUDsters for Anti-Vac Bullshit. Who could have imagined?

[Act_of_Reparation]

156. Well, Warren, Ignaz Semmelweis washed his hands once...

...so everything we know about pharmacology is probably wrong.

[AtheistCrusader]

135. says something about how much you know about this issue.

Or rather, how incredibly little you know about it.

[iandhr]

30. The anti vexer cause has unified the fringe left and the fringe right.

[shenmue]

32. I had mumps

I caught it the year before the schools made the vaccines mandatory.

It was not fun.

Boo.

[hifiguy]

33. Nuttier than squirrel shit

and I say that as a dx'd Aspie.

[CBGLuthier]

37. The only Kennedy that impressed me died in 68

The rest were philanderers and nutbags.

[valerief]

41. “They can put anything they want in that vaccine and they have no accountability for it.”

Sounds just like our food. Or foodstuffs, I should say.

[zappaman]

45. I almost feel sorry for someone as fucking stupid as RFK Jr.

But then I think about all the harm his wacky beliefs can do and I lose any sympathy for his stupid ass.

[SidDithers]

49. But he's a Kennedy...

and those that tug at their forelock to the Kennedys think that RFK Jr. can't possibly be an asshat, because he's RFK's son.

Sid

[beam me up scottie]

121. I would say too bad there's no vaccine for stupidity.

But these idiots would be too stupid to get it.

[MrMickeysMom]

130. I feel more pity for people's stupid fucking posts...

… as a way to take a shot at RFK Jr. Been seeing this shit for years here…

[zappaman]

138. Awwww...poor RFK Jr is a fucking whack job

When it comes to vaccines.
Maybe you should feel sorry for the sad people taken in by his bullshit.
Or the kids who could be harmed by his bullshit.
Or is that too much to ask?

[Politicalboi]

48. We lost the wrong son

JFK jr. would never go where this asshole is going.

[Octafish]

50. Call some other Democrat, ''Asshat,'' siddithers of DU.

RFK, Jr. is a good man who tells the truth. It's why he doesn't get on tee vee, even when he breaks the news about what his father really thought about the assassination of his brother, President John F. Kennedy:

Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy believed President Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy.

That's what his son and daughter, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and Rory Kennedy, reported in an interview with Charlie Rose in 2013, recorded live in Dallas.



It's also what author and Salon founder David Talbot reported, when he called Robert F. Kennedy the "first conspiracy theorist" in 2007.

Here's why the news from Robert and Rory is so important:

The important issue is that he and his sister reported their father -- the president's principal counselor and the nation's chief law enforcement officer -- privately thought a conspiracy was behind the assassination of President Kennedy.

RFK called the Warren Commission report "shoddy workmanship."

Attorney General Kennedy knew about the Ruby-Mafia connections immediately, which is vital when considering the Mafia were hired by Allen Dulles and the CIA during Eisenhower's administration to murder Fidel Castro -- an operation which the CIA failed to inform the president and attorney general.

The interview with Charlie Rose marked the first time members of the immediate Kennedy family have voiced the attorney general's doubts about the Warren Commission and its lone gunman theory.

Those are the facts we learned Friday, Jan. 11, 2013. It's called history.

When you smear RFK Jr. as an "asshat," you do the work of those who hate Liberal Democrats, siddithers of DU.

[cali]

52. He's woefully wrong on this. (RFK Jr)

and he does real damage with this shit.

[Octafish]

58. He hasn't damaged anyone except Big Pharma.

Outstanding DU thread on the subject:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017257265

[cali]

69. yes he has. He's almost certainly convinced some folks not to vaccinate their children

and thimerosal is no longer in childhood vaccines other than the flu vaccine which is not mandatory. Furthermore, it's a much bullshit to call this a holocaust as the repukes calling abortion a holocaust.

[zappaman]

75. Big pharma!

[onecent]

165. Well SOMEONE needs to DAMAGE big pharma!!!

"this is where they all go ape-shit because Robert Kennedy is smart
enough to question vaccines."

I'm never getting any and you can waste your time "trying" to convince
those of us "WHO HAVE OUR OWN BELIEFS for the rest of your lives....and
you will find us lurking behind every corner.

[Archae]

55. And this has what to do with the price of tea in China?

The issue is not Kennedy assassination theories.

It's vaccines.

And when someone as stupid as RFK Jr despite all the evidence, still says vaccines cause autism, it shows he's simply a damn idiot.

My own family, 2 parents, 5 kids, 7 grandchildren, 7 great-grandchildren.
All had vaccines.
NO autism.

In Denmark, autism rates are the same for vaccinated and non-vaccinated people.

[Octafish]

61. Where does he say not to vaccinate?

When it comes to the Kennedy family, here's where Archae is coming from:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024158313#post18

[NuclearDem]

70. "I'm not anti-vaxx, but we've got a holocaust on our hands."

Nobody's that stupid, Octafish.

[SidDithers]

63. According to octafish of DU...

RFK Jr is an expert on vaccines, because his dad was murdered.

How can one argue with logic like that?

Sid

[zappaman]

74. If your last name is Kennedy, you're never wrong!

[SidDithers]

57. Keep tugging your forelock, octafish of DU...

The Kennedys are not infallible.

And in this case, they're not immune from being an asshat.

Sid

[Octafish]

62. Smear Once. Use Often.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025279532#post60

Why do you persist in smearing a good Democrat, siddithers of DU?

[SidDithers]

65. If the shoe fits....nt

Sid

[Orrex]

94. It doesn't count until someone calls you SidOrrex.

[SidDithers]

99. Wait, I thought they were calling YOU sidorrex...

You mean it was me all along?



Sid

[NuclearDem]

106. He's Sidorrex. You're Skitthers.

[Major Hogwash]

119. None of that matters anymore.

Skinner already called the Orkin man.
He can take out both kinds of pests.

[REP]

92. Attribution, damn it!

That's my line, from post #30. You were ominously promising to remember things I wrote, not ominously promising to misattribute them. I smell a rat.

[Freddie Stubbs]

151. It's not a smear if it's true

[MrMickeysMom]

131. Sid… Did you lose something?

Ha! Ha! Just Kidding, Sid!

[zappaman]

139. Ha! The official RFK Jr beanie!

Thanks for posting!

[MrMickeysMom]

148. You're welcome!

I think you just might be able to get this one to fit! It is guaranteed to identify you from the other single-minded!


HA! HA! HA! I'm so glad you kicked it!

[snappyturtle]

64. I figure you're probably the only one in this discussion who might bother

to listen to this video. I have listened to the first 25 minutes which features RFK explaining his position.
The remaining part is Q&A I think after the screening of "Trace Amounts". I have an appointment so will
listen to that part later.

His position seems reasonable to me and worth a listen to those willing to hear from the horse's mouth rather than from others offering their opinions.

[Octafish]

110. Thank you, snappyturtle! I'm a person who likes to learn more than one side of things.

I will listen and learn. What makes me different from so many these days is that I won't shut up somebody else who wants to say something. That way, everybody can hear everybody before making up their mind -- or better yet, learning what they need to learn in order to learn more.

When it comes to neurotoxicity, we're just starting to scratch the surface. Take endocrine disruption, please. Leading science ignored by the cough Dow Chemical lubbing Corporate Owned News media monopoly.

[snappyturtle]

120. Thank you Octafish...my sentiments exactly. I used to come to DU to learn

and now it seems I come here to learn the common prejudices du jour. I learned a lot from just a few minutes on this video. I think we first need to listen and then to form conclusions.

I will scope out your link...thanks!

[mmonk]

66. I personally like him and loved his father. But, of course, he is wrong on this issue

and I can't figure out why he persists on this. Anyway, even though my son is autistic, I will not stop liking Robert (ironically, the same name as my autistic son and my other son, ironically is named John) because he has this wrong.

[Oneironaut]

71. It's possible to be a good man and be wrong.

I hope he revisits this quackery soon, but the anti-vax movement is good at maintaining a echo chamber.

[Orrex]

73. Why must Sid be on the hot seat?

A lot of us are perfectly capable of calling Democrat RFK Jr. an asshat, and are happy to do so!

[greatauntoftriplets]

81. You "just signed up" for about the gazillionth time.

[Jesus Malverde]

166. Lulz..nt

[yurbud]

59. I like him on a lot of other issues, but he's destroying his credibility here.

[still_one]

80. I really wish Robert Kennedy Jr. would just STFU about his anti-science campaign against vaccines.

He has really shown himself to be an idiot.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

82. Was Kennedy ever vaccinated or are germs just unable to survive in toxic levels of stupid?

[HockeyMom]

86. Since he was born in 1954.

he has never gotten a measles, mumps, rubella, or chicken pox vaccination. Sure of that. Same as the rest of us Baby Boomers his age who had those diseases as children.

[REP]

93. I had an MMR in California last month and now I am dead.

Or maybe autistic. Or artistic.

[HockeyMom]

103. Yeah, I am dead too

from having measles as a 6 month old, chicken pox as a 7 month old, mumps and german measles under 2. IMPOSSIBLE to survive all those diseases.

Boooo!

[REP]

112. Go ask my half-brother about pertussis. Oh you can't because he died from it.

I'm in Stage III kidney failure and live in a state with a bunch of over privileged morons who graduated cum laude from the University of Ass. I've had to be on pertussis prophylaxis more than once because of idiots dragging their obviously ill and suffering children out to non-essential venues ("But mommy needs her trente half caff lite mocha caramel frap extra caramel extra whip!) and yes my TDaP is up to date. I took the time to have my MMR titres checked and get revaccinated because my state is ground zero for preventable disease.

[HockeyMom]

114. I got DPT vaccine in 1952

Never had a tetanus shot either since that one. Cannot count how many times I have cut myself in over 60 years either. Even stepped on a rusty nail about 20 years ago. Again, booo!

Of course, my natural immunity having all those childhood diseases must be gone by now too! Hey, stop worrying about "Mommy" . Maybe you should be terrified of GRANDMA who never had her MMR vaccination at all.

[LeftishBrit]

145. Well, you are either very strong or lucky or both

That doesn't mean that everyone else is.

My grandfather had flu as a kid in the 1918 flu epidemic. He survived. That doesn't alter the fact that more people died in that epidemic than in WW1.

There were people who were born into abject poverty (in some cases, the children of former slaves), who died at the age of over 110. This doesn't mean that being born in abject poverty is good for the life expectancy.

Neither of course is being in a war zone, but not everyone who is involved in a war is killed.

This doesn't mean that we should not seek to combat war, poverty, disease and everything that can be harmful to people.

And nobody has ever said that EVERYONE who gets vaccine-preventable diseases will die - even smallpox only killed about 30% of the people who caught it. But it's still better not to have the diseases than to have them.

[tabasco]

95. Then he's a fuckin' kook.

'nuff said.

[Rex]

96. I don't know which group is worse, anti-vaxers or climate change deniers. nt

nt

[beam me up scottie]

115. Well only one of them has put in an appearance in this thread.

So I'll go with DUers who are promoting anti-science conspiracy theories, Alex, because they should know better.

But then again, this is the home of the Moon Bombing threads.

[Rex]

117. NASA was going to go to war with the Mooninites! How hard is that to understand!?

Next you will be saying it is scientifically impossible to prove the moon is made of cheese!

[beam me up scottie]

118. LOL!

Come to find out NASA just wanted some fondue...

[Warren DeMontague]

142. Im not convinced there isn't some serious overlap btw the two groups.

i blame HAARP!

[mnhtnbb]

98. Oh, FFS. Remind me, please, where RFK, Jr. got his medical degree? Right.

Why not pay attention to what the Surgeon General, yeah, that guy that took so long
to FINALLY get approval, has to say about the MMR vaccine?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/02/04/surgeon-general-vivek-murthy-urges-parents-to-vaccinate-children-against-measles/

[zappaman]

100. Yeah, but he's a Kennedy and a Democrat...

So you are not allowed to think he is horribly wrong on this issue.

[mnhtnbb]

101. He's a f#cking politician! Would you go to one for heart surgery? Knee or hip replacement?

How about control of diabetes or treatment of cancer? No, well, then,
maybe people ought to consider not paying any attention to what he has to say
about vaccines.

Oh, I forgot, maybe he stayed at one of those motels that advertise about how smart everyone
is because they stay there? Who the f#ck cares what his name is?

[zappaman]

102. He may be a "f#cking politician" but he is a Kennedy.

So you have to lay off him.

[mnhtnbb]

111. I get it. See post #45.

[REP]

113. Magna sum laude from the Unversity of Talking out the Ass

"I'm a Kennedy - I don't have to know what I'm talking about as long as I clap my hands and believe!"

[mnhtnbb]

122. LOL!

[beam me up scottie]

116. Science: Not a democracy

Morons.

[William769]

123. Law & Order SVU had a great show this week on this topic.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

128. He's destroyed Ring of Fire's credibility

Seder and Papantonio should find a new co-host

[X_Digger]

133. What.a.fucking.moron. *sigh* n/t

[LiberalAndProud]

137. Let me just say

I really appreciate the DUers who have the patience to refute the antivax nonsense every time it rears its ugly head here on DU. Mine has run out. Clearly we'll not change those minds who are made up that vaccines are a vast conspiracy by the medical and pharmaceutical industries. I only wish their stupidity did not put so many other lives at risk.

Kudos to all of you. And I'll refrain from commenting on the other side, as it seems blasting this nonsense on DU is not prohibited, though I don't know why it is not.

[Warren DeMontague]

141. It's good that they're scheduling it for the spring, cuz in the fall it might compete with PETA's

"Holocaust on your plate" Treblinka of Turkeys.

[Vinca]

150. He could be right.

It could be a holocaust of little kids dying of preventable diseases if they are not vaccinated.

[ucrdem]

164. Bashing the Kennedys is nothing new, though you might think you're entitled to

because your cause is just. Guess what? The man is a hero. As for this particular issue, time will tell, and anyone who is genuinely interested in what RFK Jr has learned can read his full article which is readily available on his website. But I think few here will. Plus ça change.

[ismnotwasm]

167. Yeah I'll remember that

When I go to work and take care of patient who have complications for months after having the flu.

[Jesus Malverde]

168. .

Jesus

[proverbialwisdom]

169. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. apologizes for 'holocaust' remark in speech against California vaccine law

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/04/13/california-robert-kennedy-rfk-holocaust-vaccine/

Robert Kennedy Jr. Backs Off ‘Holocaust’ Comparison In California Vaccine Debate

April 13, 2015 12:40 PM
Associated Press

(different title, IDENTICAL article as below)

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/04/14/robert-f-kennedy-jr-apologizes-for-holocaust-remark-in-speech-against/

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. apologizes for 'holocaust' remark in speech against California vaccine law

Published April 14, 2015
Associated Press

SACRAMENTO, Calif. – Robert Kennedy Jr. on Monday apologized for describing the number of children injured by vaccines as "a holocaust" during a film screening last week.

The nephew of President John F. Kennedy and son of former U.S. Attorney General Robert Kennedy used the term last week at a screening in Sacramento of the film "Trace Amounts." The movie links autism to a vaccine preservative, even though the medical community says such claims have been scientifically disproved.

Kennedy said he was struggling for a way to convey the effects of autism on children and their families.

"I want to apologize to all whom I offended by my use of the word holocaust to describe the autism epidemic," Kennedy said in a statement. "I employed the term during an impromptu speech as I struggled to find an expression to convey the catastrophic tragedy of autism which has now destroyed the lives of over 20 million children and shattered their families."

He said he will use other words to describe the autism crisis in the future.

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