How far would you go to tear down a cardboard fort?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

Assume there is a city ordinance duly passed against unsightly displays in pubic view but the homeowner has built a fort for his children and the neighborhood kids. Notice has been served that the fort has to be taken down but the homeowner refuses, stating the ordinance is stupid and the kids are having fun.

He receives a citation but since he considers the citation to be based on flawed reasoning of a flawed ordinance he refuses to pay it. He is then served with a summons to appear in court but now his mindset is the flaws have reached an absurd level so he again refuses to answer to the authorities. A bench warrant is issued for his arrest. He does not surrender himself. Law enforcement officers are dispatched to his residence. He will not comply with their instructions.

What should happen next?

A) Never mind, the juice ain't worth the squeeze

B) Find some other mechanism to impose a penalty, something less muscular

C) Screw this guy. If he wants to thumb his nose at the system we'll show him

D) Other

[Panich52]

1. B. We're the gov't. We always have ways to screw over people. Unless the guy gets ACLU on his side..

Then, A.

[Coventina]

2. Nothing. I am 100% pro-cardboard fort. And I don't even have kids.

It's a totally made-up first world problem that never would have BEEN a problem if someone hadn't made it one.

[HappyMe]

6. I agree.

Don't people have anything better to do than to whine about a guy spending time with his kid. It's cardboard. It's not going to last forever.

[sabrina 1]

93. Me too, I am 100% in favor of cardboard forts. 'First World Problem'! Indeed. Authoritarians MAKE

these laws, then have apoplexy when their motives are questioned.

I hope the ACLU gets involved in this case.

Kudos to a good father who clearly cares about his children.

And a big middle finger to authoritarians everywhere.

[hifiguy]

96. + a whole bunch.

Like a dead owl, I would not give a single hoot if a neighbor built a cardboard fort for his kids on his own property. None of my business whatsoever.

[cleanhippie]

3. "... the homeowner refuses, stating the ordinance is stupid." If this is an allowable defense

for one homeowner, then it's an allowable defense for any other homeowner that feels a &quot city) ordinance is stupid."

Doesn't matter if it's a cardboard fort or a rusted out car on cinder blocks.

Or at least it shouldn't.

But since you tarnished this issue with the bullet-proof "what about the chiiilllldddreeeen?" argument, common sense takes a backseat.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

8. So pretend he built the fort for himself.

How much force are you willing to exert to enforce the ordinance?

[cleanhippie]

10. Do I live next door?

Then I'd exert all the force necessary.

I'm failing to see why this is an issue.

[Bonx]

25. If I was next door... sprinklers + cardboard

= fort gone.

[cleanhippie]

27. +1

[cheapdate]

32. If I lived next door, I would not give a shit if my neighbor built a cardboard fort.

That's because I actually embrace "hippie" ethics, which include nurturing a playful and creative spirit in children and rejecting strict conformance to some arbitrary aesthetic in the name of preserving "property value."

"Hippie" apparently means something very different where you're from, although you could probably get a position on my homeowner's association sending letters to people with basketball goals in their driveways.

[cleanhippie]

37. Do you feel better about yourself now?

That's quite the barrage of personal attacks you made there. Project much?


Oh, and as for "hippie" ethics, they also include consideration and empathy for one's neighbors, not self-centered, fuck-you-and-anyone-that-doesnt-like-it insecurity. YMMV.

[cheapdate]

41. No. I'm not "projecting".

I'm not sure if you understand what "projecting" means.

I stand 100% by everything I said.

[sabrina 1]

94. If I lived next door, I would join in the fun. And how does a cardboard fort on someone's own

property affect the life of a neighbor in any significant way? It's HIS property. If you don't like children then don't buy a house next door to someone who does.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

56. "Then I'd exert all the force necessary."

I strongly suspect that is an overstatement or your willingness and/or capabilities.

[cleanhippie]

127. I think it's more projection on your part than suspicion.

[snooper2]

128. firefighters stay outside his house and hose him every time he walks outside

and have one on the roof with a good supply of flour LOL

[Ms. Toad]

34. The OP didn't tarnish it - that is the actual situation.

http://www.kutv.com/news/features/local-news/stories/Ogden-resident-calls-fort-builders-to-action-111357.shtml#.VSPy1PnF-So

[cleanhippie]

38. The OP created their own scenario based on an actual event.

And the actual event is also tarnished by the same problem.

[jberryhill]

44. It is not the actual situation

The actual situation is that he was given 15 days to enjoy his cardboard fort.

That's plenty long for cardboard in the yard.

There is no problem here.

[Ms. Toad]

67. So he's taken the hypothetical to the next step.

Doesn't change that the actual situation of kids in forts on front lawns was tarnished by kids in the real scenario on which this was based.

[valerief]

152. No. Reasonableness and judgment should be used. It's not black and white. nt

[tazkcmo]

4. E) Not give a crap. n/t

[PoliticAverse]

5. How far would you go to collect someone's unpaid property taxes?

(Which might also include an amount added for some code-enforcement noncompliance fines)?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

9. How far would you go to collect someone's unpaid retail cigarette taxes?

[Romeo.lima333]

15. just short of a chokehold -

[cherokeeprogressive]

29. How far would you go to collect unpaid grazing fees?

[pipi_k]

7. If the guy

wants a cardboard fort "for his kids and the neighborhood kids" that badly, he has two choices:


1. Put it in the back yard or

2. Put up a stockade fence so the "kids" can have fun and whoever lives nearby doesn't have to look at it.


I think those are two pretty reasonable compromises.

[cleanhippie]

20. Stop it. Stop it right now.

Common sense is NOT allowed in threads like this.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

59. Common sense might also say, "Worry about your own yard."

[cleanhippie]

129. Yes, it might.

But in this case, it doesn't.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

135. Oh, but I think this would be a perfect opportunity to flex the

"mind your own business" muscle.

[cleanhippie]

150. So your advocating for ignoring municipal law

In favor of "mind your own business"?


Yeah, that's some real common sense right there.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

154. That's not really a rebuttal; it's just a complaint. So I guess my point stands.

[cleanhippie]

172. If you say so.

Something stands, but I don't think it's your point.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

173. Why should people just obey something when it forbids some other thing that is harmless?

Why should we tolerate a system that is willing to literally destroy people, their families and their livelihoods over trivial matters? Systems like that ought to be ignored.

And before you complain it will lead to anarchy take a moment to examine my avatar and realize that would actually be a selling point.

[cleanhippie]

174. There are, quite literally, thousands of laws that can be described that way.

And if they truly forbid something that is harmless, we should, as a society, work to change those laws.

Allowing people to ignore laws they don't like at-will is an ill conceived and intellectually lazy proposition. YMMV.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

175. "an ill conceived and intellectually lazy proposition"

Argument by assertion. Why should we obey laws that do more harm than good? If you sat on the jury of someone being ruined by such a law would you vote to convict? Would you shrug-off the use of force against people ignoring such laws?

[cleanhippie]

176. I feel like we will never find common ground on this issue.

Yes, there are laws are are stupid and unnecessary. We should work to change or eliminate them.

Ignoring laws that harm others (in the legal sense) only invites chaos. And there's enough of that in the world already.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

177. "Ignoring laws that harm others (in the legal sense) only invites chaos."

I don't buy that explanation. I think it's a sales pitch by the authoritarians (the real ones, not you) to keep us in our pens. If we are to live in a free society it is because we have concluded: People ought to be free. If they ought NOT be free then we say they are not to be trusted with freedom for the harm they may do to themselves and others so they should be managed by their betters (whoever may qualify for THAT).

But we have decided in favor of freedom. We have said people are capable of generally conducting themselves without inflicting harm. We trust them to be good only the law is only to remediate after harm has been done.

What we are witnessing these days is the idea that the people are not to be trusted, not even with cardboard boxes in their own front yards. It's obscene. That, were things to go differently, it could result in the use of force is beyond immoral.

[HereSince1628]

40. Most communities don't allow stockade fencing in front yards...it's an obstacle in fire fighting

and the community has an interest of preventing fires from spreading to adjoining neighbors structures...

In the community I dwell in, fences in front yards require installation permits. I've seen plans for nice white picket fences declined by the zoning board because they were on a corner lot and the back-yard there is treated as a front-yard with respect to zoning.

[F4lconF16]

11. C!!! Get him!!!$:$!^÷¥

[Coventina]

12. DU needs to have that smiley!!! Where did you get it?

It's adorable!!

[F4lconF16]

14. I'm about to post in AtA to get one, actually!

I found it on the google

[Coventina]

16. Godspeed!! I would LOVE to see that one added!!

[F4lconF16]

17. Wait, red or yellow? we have options...

Or:

[Coventina]

19. I like the red, actually. It makes them look angrier!

[F4lconF16]

24. My thoughts as well...

Annnnd done, posted in AtA.

[HappyMe]

21. I vote red.

They look more angry to me.

[Liberal_in_LA]

76. lol. it is cute

[Romeo.lima333]

13. trumped up faux outrage du jour

yea let's let people decide what rules they will follow

[hunter]

18. I'd offer to replace it with a fully operable M1 Abrams Tank.

The kids would love that and the neighbors wouldn't dare complain.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams

[Coventina]

22. That is full of win!

[cleanhippie]

23. "...the neighbors wouldn't dare complain." Why not?

Why wouldn't the neighbors dare to complain?

I'd complain about the tank just as much as the pile of cardboard.

[Coventina]

49. Um, there's an aspect of humor called "exaggeration for comic effect"

Relax...or do you really live in fear that a neighbor of yours is suddenly going to acquire a tank?

[cleanhippie]

52. Apparently, that same aspect of humor escapes you.

[Coventina]

55. Oh, I get it! You're only PRETENDING that a neighbor's cardboard fort would upset you!

Well played!!

[cleanhippie]

126. No, you don't get it at all.

Well, played?

[samsingh]

26. isn't that right somewhere in the Constitution.

[KansDem]

30. I believe it was the original wording of the Second Amendment...

A well-regulated front yard being necessary to the security of a free neighborhood, the right of the home owner to build and maintain cardboard forts shall not be infringed

...before it was revised.

[samsingh]

31. i agree with you totally

[lumberjack_jeff]

28. "don't pass a law that ain't worth killing granny for"

I think cardboard forts fall into that category.

[hunter]

111. My "granny" was removed alive from the home she owned as a danger to herself and others...

... by court order, police, and paramedics.

My little old lady grandma, kicking, hitting, clawing, biting, and screaming the most foul obscenities you might imagine from a retired welder-by-day and party-girl-by-night of the World War II West Coast shipyards.

Fortunately grandma had forgotten where she'd hidden her remaining guns in her hoarder's mess. My mom thought she'd found and removed all of grandma's guns when she started to get very strange, but was horrified to find more guns when she and my sister were cleaning out her house.

My grandma's mom, my great grandma, was a similar character. They were Wild American West, and maybe part Klingon. As a little kid I'd watch my great grandma preparing freshly killed fish, birds, and small mammals for dinner. Her hands and her knife moved faster than I could comprehend. I once witnessed great grandma arguing with my dad, who is a big gentle man, a knife in her hand. No doubt in my mind who would have won that fight if it had been taken to some bloody conclusion. I'd have been missing a few younger, yet to be conceived siblings.

That's why we all have to be pacifists.

My family is a solid matriarchy now and going back as far as you like.

[lumberjack_jeff]

113. Ouch. Matriarchy means knifepoint rule?

From that perspective, patriarchy isn't looking all that bad.

[Trillo]

33. A. NT

[Ms. Toad]

35. I send my kids over to play in the fort. n/t

[Art_from_Ark]

171. Heck yeah

That looks like something I would have loved to play in when I was a kid.

I think we did make a fort out in the front yard with Flintstones Building Boulders one time, but it had to be taken down before dark.

[cheapdate]

36. The City should drop the matter

and apologize for disturbing this family's peace. Fucking Nazis.

[TeeYiYi]

39. One man's treasure...

...is another man's trash.



If he's willing to build that shitty "fort" out of crappy boxes in his front yard, and leave it there for weeks on end, he won't stop there.

A few days while he's unpacking new appliances, I can see. Anything more than that, he's shown his true colors and I'd hope someone would step in and nip it in the bud before it gets out of hand.

TYY

[Mariana]

57. Have you seen the photos?

The house and yard are neat and well maintained. The cardboard itself is clean and dry and the fort structure is not sloppy or messy in any way. This is not a fledgling hoarder or the beginnings of a junkyard.

They got the notice after it had been up for ONE day. In an interview, they said they had planned to take it down after a couple of days, which you say you would be OK with. Now, they're going to leave it up the full 15 days.

[Coventina]

60. Exactly what I would do. I'd have a "Coventina's Castle Countdown" to the 15 days, make sure all

the neighborhood kids had as much noisy fun as possible.

Maybe rent a Godzilla costume for the last day and stomp it into pieces small enough for the recycle bin.
Have the kids help me with that, too.

Dear gods, whatever happened to FUN?!?!?!

[Hekate]

91. Stomp, Godzilla, Stomp! That is a really creative idea.

[TeeYiYi]

68. Sometimes...

...people get new appliances and the kids play inside the boxes for a few days. No big deal.

Getting a notice after one day, if true, is ridiculous.

I got the impression that the guy helped his kids make a 'really cool summer fort' in the front yard. I saw the pictures and it looked like he was aiming for a certain amount of longevity. More than a week of that nonsense would not be cool. Backyard would be a different story.

The fort wasn't exactly an artistic masterpiece. I've seen more creativity with cardboard boxes under the viaduct.

TYY

[Mariana]

69. Maybe you should have read the story

before you decided he was a shitty neighbor who had turned his front yard into a garbage heap. Some of his neighbors are publicly supporting him.

[TeeYiYi]

73. I'm well aware of the story.

I live in Utah. It's been all over the news. I just haven't been hanging on every word.

I didn't say he was a 'shitty neighbor.' I said his fort was shitty, and it is.

I'm not convinced it was a short term endeavor. That said, I'm happy to let it play itself out without expending too much of my own energy.

TYY

[ZombieHorde]

42. A.

Cities/towns have finite resources, and there are many other things we can be doing with those resources.

[jberryhill]

43. He got a 15 day notice

Seriously? Who leaves a cardboard fort in their yard for two weeks?

[Coventina]

46. He probably wasn't planning on it, but maybe now he is!

I know I would after that totally jerk move.

[Mariana]

71. That's exactly what he said in an interview.

It was originally going to be there for a couple of days, but now it's going to stay until the time on the notice runs out. Neighbors are supporting him.

[winter is coming]

61. I guess that depends on how much it rains.

Although you'd think that normal wear and tear from kids playing in it would pretty much kill the fort long before the two weeks were up.

[jberryhill]

62. A couple hours max, with most kids

[stevenleser]

45. Two points...

...#1 - Any ordinance regarding home/land ownership that is worth enforcing should ultimately result on a lien on the property for any fines imposed for non-compliance if it goes that far. That's the end game.

#2 - We have to decide if this is an issue worth enforcing. And I am not sure it is. I hate deed-restricted communities because of the restrictions they place on home owners. The restriction listed in the OP seems over the top.

[lame54]

74. he should put some wise men in front and be done with it

[bluedigger]

47. I'd send in a SWAT team.

You allow open contempt for the law like this, next thing you know, anarchy!

[Coventina]

48. You can't be too careful! It might be an al-Qaeda training ground for tots!!

[HappyMe]

50. Somebody has to stand up for the

Gladys Kravitz contingent of the neighborhood.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

53. "You allow open contempt for the law like this, next thing you know, anarchy!"

You say that like it's a bad thing.

***taps avatar***

[jmowreader]

66. Sounds good to me

They can help him move it to the back yard where it belongs.

[bluedigger]

72. A helpful SWAT team?

Why not? Just tell them to hitch the unicorns they rode up on out front.

[RobinA]

51. The People Close to Me

have instructions that if I ever get to the point where my panties are in a bunch over a cardboard tree fort I am to be medicated as soon as possible.

[randome]

64. How about a cardboard cave?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[randome]

54. Death by firing squad.

Kidding. The one thing I would not do, however, is put my children in a situation where they might have to do without Dad for a while.

There are times when standing up to the Establishment is worth it, I'm not sure this is one of those times.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[Cheese Sandwich]

86. He won't be jailed long for a cardboard fort. The kids will learn how to resist dumb laws.

Dad would be setting a good example as a positive role model.

[Mariana]

114. He won't be jailed at all.

He's going to take it down when the time given on the notice runs out. He was originally going to leave it up for just a couple of days, but the city gives him two weeks.

[frogmarch]

58. "unsightly displays" in this case are in the eye

of kid-hating, troublemaking beholders. There should be ordinances against them.

[Mariana]

75. They got the notice after it had been up for ONE day. nt.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

63. As a neighbor wouldn't care, but if I was the city and had to enforce the ordinance I

guess I would just ask the garbage service to pick it up and toss it in the truck. It's not a very big fort and not far from the curb. It shouldn't take them more than a couple minutes. I don't see a reason to waste police and court resources on something like that.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

65. "I would just ask the garbage service to pick it up and toss it in the truck"

I'm obviously unfamiliar with your municipality but where I live the garbage service is a private concern. I can't imagine them accepting the liability for trespassing and vandalism on private property.

[Whiskeytide]

70. Rent a Godzilla costume...

... and go play in the fort with the kids for a couple of hours. Problem solved.

[Coventina]

79. GMTA: See my post #60

[Whiskeytide]

81. Ha ha. I didn't catch that...

... awesome. I agree. Whatever happened to fun? It won't last long anyway - take it out in style!

[haikugal]

77. I don't know the details

But my first question is why the front yard? When I was a kid we built all kinds of things but always in the back yard..neighbor kids would have access to each others back yards with permission. What is this guy trying to prove? Is this just an immature middle finger to 'community standards'?

I think this is manufactured for a reason using his kids as an excuse...

[F4lconF16]

80. One possible reason...

Houses these days have tiny backyards. I could easily see one being small enough that it wouldn't fit it. Also possible that he has a shed or something, or no grass, or any number of reasons. I don't think he's using his kids as an excuse--he just wanted to have some fun with them.

[haikugal]

83. If all of that we're true...

And I admit to being spoiled where I have acres of room, then I'm sorry this man is being harassed by unreasonable demands. I've heard horror stories about these rules etc. and admit I couldn't deal with it, which is why we moved to the country...we were lucky and could do it.

Thanks for the explanation F4....I'm all for parents building things with their kids and supplying children, boys and girls, with things to take apart, mechanical, electrical etc...it's good for kids to learn how things work and are made. Just an asside to the building of the cardboard fort. I loved building forts as a child.

[F4lconF16]

84. I have no idea.

It'd be a bit tough to tell without visiting the guy. Either way, it was a bit much to give him the notice after just a single day. He even said he was only planning on leaving it up for the day. Heck, even his neighbors are supporting him in this whole mess now, which I find rather amusing.

Agree that kids should be able to do things like this. I'm lucky because my grandfather bought some forest land back in Oregon years and years ago. We've got about 20 acres of untouched forest left, and we'd go up there all the time to maintain it. Clearing a bit of brush here, trimming some stuff there, making sure that a fire wouldn't destroy the area. It was where I learned to love the outdoors (and haaaaate poison oak--screw that stuff), but the best part was always building forts. I think there were at least three or four my brother and I made, all the way up until I left for college. I don't think we ever finished a single one, but building it was always the fun part, anyways.

[snooper2]

130. If you read the article they have a hill/slope in back yard...

Construction 101 isn't dad's strong suit LOL

[Hekate]

90. I think there was something about thorn bushes in the back that he was taking out...

In any case the first photo shows a happy mom and dad and happy kids, plus it looks like neighbor kids. It looked like a really fun project for all.

If my kids were still of an age to be delighted with forts, I'd be likely to send them on over to share in the fun.

At my local Costco you can buy a pre-fab wooden playhouse for $300. However a lot of young families don't have that kind of change lying around. If you ever have an appliance delivered, there is a really massive box left behind and kids absolutely adore those.

I have not tried to follow this very closely, but if they recently moved in that would explain why the backyard was not yet suitable for little kids, and why they had such a collection of really big boxes.

[haikugal]

97. All good information Hekate...

When our family was young we didn't have any extra money and when you buy a house it used to take three years to recover and have a little money left over. I agree about those huge boxes and I looked for a link but must have missed it. I wanted to see pictures.

As you say a new neighborhood may play a part in this...I know what 'neighbors' can be like, not very pleasant sometimes.

I hope this is resolved so all the children can enjoy their fort along with the parents. Children and neighborhoods need this kind of thing in my view. We have a lot of Maple trees so in the fall we'd rake up a huge pile of leaves in the yard (no front or back here just huge yard) and the kids would play in that pile until they got too soggy, a week sometimes. Makes memories... Our neighbors, such as they are thought we were off but couldn't say anything about it...we don't burn leaves we compost them, very different than the custom around here.

Each to their own if no one is hurt, what difference does it make?

Anyone have links?

[tammywammy]

100. In the original article no neighbors complained.

The code officer was driving down the street and saw it.

[haikugal]

101. OMG....well there it is, thanks.

I once had a problem with an enforcer over an overgrown field and what constituted a 'noxious' weed...given that goldenrod is very productive for native habitats and food production....I learned that all plants that are not planted are considered noxious and was given 2 days or pay $250. It was a large field, and it had paths mown into it for the kids to play in...a friend with a tractor came and helped me out. Do you want to know what that field has looked like every year after? Not mown and full of beautiful goldenrod, mullein, wild asters, elderberry and many other things.

I guess no one has complained because we are on a main road and nothing escapes notice around here.

Thanks again

[Politicalboi]

78. Does he have any religious recourse?

It's their church, and how dare the law step in. If all that fails, they should have a crew come by and clean it up, and charge him a fee. I'm all for his cardboard fort, but when the fines lead to jail, the game is over.

[Mariana]

87. He's going to take it down when the time runs out.

But yeah, it would be funny if they went out there and held a family "worship service" or started calling it a shrine instead of a fort.

[S_B_Jackson]

82. Were I one of his neighbors, I'd offer the use of my yard...

and help to move the whole thing.

If the city compliance officer still has the stick up his fundament, let him issue a similar citation to me...wait it out and then move the whole thing to yet another volunteer's yard. I know in my neighborhood we could keep this up months on end and let compliance Nazi run himself ragged.

The city is completely out of line in this instance.

[NightWatcher]

85. Cardboard? wouldn't this solve itself after a good rain storm?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

88. I only use the stuff treated to be waterproof.

[NightWatcher]

92. Cardboard, how quaint

This is a pic from December when I was halfway finished. It's now painted and nearly finished.
I'm installing windows tomorrow and then I'll work on interior. It already has electrical, and speakers for tunes. My 4 year old digs it almost as much as I do.

[haikugal]

98. Very cool..

Well done!

[Kalidurga]

107. That's awesome I used your pic in my reply.

[Mariana]

115. It would have solved itself anyway.

The guy was planning to get rid of it before it got grungy and raggedy looking.

[Hekate]

89. Wave at the happy kids as I walk by with the dog. Notice the forecast is rain. Figure it will all be

...over very soon.

[JanMichael]

95. I would make a paper mache bomb and drop it on the fort.

That or water balloons.

[R B Garr]

99. Cardboard is very flammable. Children should not be playing in that.

http://www.insidesocal.com/sgvcrime/2014/05/30/firefighters-battle-massive-blaze-at-santa-fe-springs-recycling-center/

The above link is about a five-alarm fire that happened at a cardboard recycling center in the L.A. area last year. It stopped trains and traffic in the area. I had to go pick my husband up since they evacuated his train. You could see the fire from quite a distance and there was a lot of talk on the news, etc., about how difficult it was to fight this fire because of the stacks of cardboard that kept igniting.

The point is that the flames from the cardboard spread so rapidly that it is not a safe material to leave unattended such as this structure for any period of time. Maybe for an afternoon of play, okay. But not for long.

This guy took his chances. Now he'll have to negotiate his way out of it. I think the city safety ordinances will not be in his favor.

[Ms. Toad]

104. I take it you never experienced the joy of playing in cardboard boxes as a child.

How sad.

There is a significant difference between a recycling center full of cardboard, and a cardboard fort.

[R B Garr]

108. Yes, I know the difference between a recycling center

and a fort. Yet, cardboard is still flammable.

And it doesn't matter what I played in as a child, lol.

[Ms. Toad]

112. If you know the difference,

then why the hair on fire rant about a kid's fort.

Pretty much everything, including many kids toys, are flammable.

Including cardboard forts, and castles, and other toys designed for children to play in:

http://www.rightstart.com/box-creations-medieval-castle-with-markers.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&gclid=Cj0KEQjwgI6pBRDak6aRovWNqLsBEiQA8zZSLnfYInxKnueF-po5R2n4aOvTGuyPCiBttFXZr-hvwuAaAhSr8P8HAQ

http://www.amazon.com/Discovery-Kids-Cardboard-Play-Castle/dp/B00FG8WVJY?tag=theoldbluedoor-20

[R B Garr]

118. Hair on fire?? LMAO

Good bye. Good Lord.

Yeah, everything is flammable. No shit.

[Ms. Toad]

132. Suggesting kids playing in cardboard boxes

is anything like a 5-alarm fire in a recycling center is pretty much hair on fire.

[R B Garr]

133. LMAO. OMG, your inanity is really too much.

The first part of my post was about how quickly cardboard burns and how even professional firefighters had an unexpectedly hard time tackling it.

THEN my post went on to talk about how it really shouldn't be left for more than a day or so. Nowhere did I say that I hate kids so they shouldn't play in cardboard and poor me because I had a lousy childhood, yet you have wasted your time trying to make this personal about me on any level you can grasp at. LMAO. How utterly inane of you.

YOU lumped all my comments together to make it personal about me with "hair on fire". Seriously ridiculous connections you make.

[Ms. Toad]

136. Your headline: Children should not be playing in that.

Please point to where I said you "hate kids so they shouldn't play in cardboard."

Equating kids playing in cardboard forts with 5-alarm fires, and concluding "Children should not be playing in that" is pretty much a hair on fire reaction to the healthy fun the kids were having in the fort their dad built for them.

I see several other people had very similar reactions to your initial post.

[R B Garr]

137. No one has had the reaction and ridiculous personalized comments

like you have been doing.

It's really ridiculous that you keep lumping my comments together to make it sensationalized about me personally. Now you're even reaching trying to lump other posters in with you so that you can seem to have more credibility in your "hair on fire" inane observations. It's really inane what you are doing. edit: lol, you're back to stating I hate children playing. Oh my God.

[Ms. Toad]

140. For the second time, please point specifically to where I said you"hate children playing"

So far, I have use the three lines from the post that started this sub-thread, in the order you put them (I didn't lump multiple comments together, I didn't rearrange them to make them more sensational) I just labeled your caption + the first 2 lines of your post "hair on fire." Which it is.

Your caption in that post (no interpretation - it is a direct quote):

Children should not be playing in that.

Followed immediately by :

http://www.insidesocal.com/sgvcrime/2014/05/30/firefighters-battle-massive-blaze-at-santa-fe-springs-recycling-center/

The above link is about a five-alarm fire that happened at a cardboard recycling center in the L.A. area last year.

You connected children playing in their cardboard fort with a five-alarm fire. Not me.

[R B Garr]

141. I've already explained it. YOU are the one connecting

it incorrectly. Nowhere did I say that children would die in a five-alarm fire.

Seriously, this is just too stupid for words. You are obviously invested in personalizing this to such a bizarre level, it's beyond inane.

Definition of inane:
in·ane


/iˈnān/


adjective

adjective: inane




silly; stupid.
"don't constantly badger people with inane questions"


synonyms: silly, foolish, stupid, fatuous, idiotic, ridiculous, ludicrous, absurd, senseless, asinine, frivolous, vapid; More

[Ms. Toad]

143. Still can't find where I said you hated kids, eh?

Seems to me that you're the one personalizing this. You keep throwing out accusations about things you think I've said that are not even remotely connected to anything I said. You can now add to that list the suggestion that I accused you of saying "children would die in a five-alarm fire."

I've quoted (or referenced) the first three lines you chose to put together. That's it.

And you have not once explained any connection between "Cardboard is very flammable. Children should not be playing in that," and a story about a five-alarm fire in any way other than the obvious: you were connecting the risk of children playing in cardboard forts with an out of control fire.

If it was really a risk anywhere equivalent to a five-alarm fire to have a cardboard fort up for more than a day, or to leave unattended, do you really think multiple toy manufacturers would be allowed to sell them?

Take a breath. Take an objective look at the tone of our respective posts. People don't usually get as wound as you are unless (1) they know they can't win on the facts or (2) it's personal for some reason.

[R B Garr]

144. I'm still crying about the sad childhood you said I had!

LOL, now you're into FIVE paragraphs about me personally. You are really invested in this.

[Ms. Toad]

146. Must have hit a nerve.

Virtually all of my comments have been about the silliness of equating playing in a cardboard fort with a five-alarm fire.

The two exceptions are:

* The initial comment about never having had the joy of playing in cardboard boxes. That seems to me a pretty obvious and generic comment to make in response to anyone whose reaction to kids playing in a cardboard box fort is to declare how dangerous it and point to a five-alarm fire in a recycling center to prove the point, rather than fondly remembering when they did something similar.

* The response I finally made in my last post to the numerous emotionally over the top posts you've made, in which I suggested you're overcompensating for not having the facts on your side - or I hit a nerve.

That's hardly "FIVE paragraphs about {you} personally." You've built up a conversation in your mind that does not match reality.

[R B Garr]

147. NO, It was obviously me that hit a nerve, because here YOU are

bloviating nonsense about me personally. FIVE paragraphs in the previous post, and now ANOTHER post about me personally. It's really fucking ridiculous.

edit: Please feel free to continue lumping all my comments together and then continue to misrepresent them. I'm enjoying your meltdown. Also, your comments about my sad childhood.

[Ms. Toad]

155. Feel free to link to any post where I put any two of your comments together

(other than the ones you put together, your self.)

Not to mention, it is pretty hard to misrepresent something that is quoted exactly. Unlike the numerous things you've accused me of saying - which, since they aren't quotes, and don't resemble anything I actually said, are misrepresentations.

[R B Garr]

158. Kind of SILLY to omit a second paragraph I typed so you can continue

your misinterpretations. Kind of SILLY to ask for a link to anything when your own snide comments are here in this thread -- all of which are obsessed with me personally.

Kind of SILLY to imply anything about my childhood. Kind of SILLY to imply that I don't like daddies making things for their kids.

This is now going on 24 hours of your obsession with making this personal about me. KIND OF SILLY.

[R B Garr]

160. OH, and what I said in the 2nd paragraph matched what the father said--

he was only going to leave the fort up for a couple days and then take it down.

Kind of SILLY to omit what I said about that. KIND OF SILLY.

[Renew Deal]

166. Do you avoid libraries?

For the same reason of course.

[R B Garr]

167. LMAO.

[R B Garr]

148. So...how sad was my childhood.

Can't wait to hear it, and you know all about it.

[Ms. Toad]

156. Kind of silly for someone who has been accusing me of overreacting

to circle back and make a second snide comment to the same post you've already commented on.

[R B Garr]

157. Kind of SILLY for you to make any comments at all about my childhood.

Kind of SILLY for you to keep making this personal about me, which you seem very committed to doing.

Kind of SILLY for you to inject your own misinterpretations on an endless basis about a simple preface to a comment I made.

[R B Garr]

161. Kind of SILLY that you've obsessed about me for 24 hours now.

KIND OF SILLY.

[Ms. Toad]

163. Obsessed?

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

In the alternative, you might want to take a look at your own posting pattern. You've made 4 responses to my 2 posts, within 13 minutes of when I made them.

[R B Garr]

164. LMAO. Look how obsessed you are about making this personal.

You've followed me around since I first answered you about 24 hours ago about why I composed my initial post the way I did, and you've continued with the same SILLY games since. You insist on making this personal about me.

What manipulative tripe to say anything about someone's childhood. What manipulative tripe to omit something I said so you can continue about me personally. Obsessed is what you are. Look at you.

edit: OH, look at you timing my posts now -- after you replied tonight AGAIN with the same obsessive tripe within 24 hours.

[Ms. Toad]

165. You seriously need to examine your own behavior.

Responding to you in a single subthread (or the second one you started this afternoon) is not "following you around." Following you around would be searching you out repeatedly in other conversations and jumping into those other conversations.

My responses have been calm, direct, factual, and to the point. Yours, on the other hand, contain inflammatory, escalating language, accusing me of saying things I've never said. When I didn't respond to your 2 pm post quickly enough, apparently, you went back to another post you had already responded to and started a second sub-thread. When I did respond (around 9 hours later), you immediately responded with more escalating and inflammatory language - with double the number of posts.

This isn't, and never was, personal from my perspective - as is clear from any fair reading of what I've posted. But I am growing increasingly concerned about how out of touch with reality and, frankly, over the top you sound.

[R B Garr]

168. You need to quit obsessing about me and making this personal.

You have posted nothing but snide tripe and it's all personal.

Anyone who prefaces their first comment about someone's childhood is manipulative, and that's what you've been since this whole exchange. I answered you LONG ago, completely, but you just want to make it personal.

You are personally invested in this and obsessed with it. Seriously, you've been following me around for 24 HOURS now. 24 hours.

[Ms. Toad]

169. Without really looking very hard, I've found three other threads,

with three different people, where you have had similarly inflammatory and escalating reactions to pretty innocuous posts.

I hope you get help with whatever it is that drives you to repeatedly have this kind of interaction with people. It's not healthy.

Whatever it is clearly has nothing to do with me, or this conversation, so I'm done.

[R B Garr]

170. This is all you've done is try and make this personal about me.

Sorry, but I'm not going to take your obsessed comments about me with any seriousness. All you've done for 24 hours is follow me with manipulative comments about me personally. Talking about my "behavior" is all you've done for over 24 hours now. The only "behavior" you've noticed from me is me giving you the cyber stinkeye because of your manipulations and your obsessions with making this personal. Look at you now! Exactly as I described from the beginning of your obsession 24 hours ago.

How sweet you're so concerned about my childhood and now you're stalking my posting (only 3 times, though --fucking hilarious.)

So here's another rolling smilie, which is all you've been worth since you mentioned my sad childhood. Good Lord.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

105. I hear wood is also flammable --

[R B Garr]

109. Lame

[Puglover]

145. As is hay.

How DARE my abusive family let us play in the hay mow when we were kids. Shocking!

[Warren DeMontague]

122. .............Outside?

Maybe just tell the kids not to smoke in The thing.

[snooper2]

131. only if you douse it with some gas...actually pain in the ass to get cardboard going

I use it all the time to get wood started in my smoker...

[R B Garr]

138. I don't think many people try to start fires. They just occur and more

easily with certain substances or they become more volatile with certain materials.

ANYWAY, I can see how a city official took notice of it, although the notice probably didn't mention a fire hazard.

[jberryhill]

102. Only one way to be sure

[thucythucy]

103. I'd bring out my cardboard catapaults

and cardboard siege guns, also cardboard battering rams and such.

If that didn't do the job, I'd leave a cardboard horse secretly stuffed with cardboard warriors. Works every time.

[pinboy3niner]

116. That was my thought, too, lol!

[Kalidurga]

106. D) Other

Well I just had to steal this picture because it is what I was thinking and it's a beautiful illustration. Get some neighbors together and help him build a more permanent fort, hopefully in the back yard.

[Lil Missy]

110. Other: He should be arrested and sent to jail. n/t

[Nuclear Unicorn]

123. And if he refuses to comply?

[Bonobo]

117. A neighbor has some responsibility in the look of the neighborhood.

Cardboard boxes may be fine for indoors, but they are an ugly eyesore that could be accepted for a day or two, but no more IMO.

Get some fiberboard or something and do it right, parents. Your heart is in the right place, but you are bad neighbors.

[R B Garr]

119. That's what I said --(the part about the day or so).

Now it's turned into me hating children.

[Bonobo]

120. I sympathize.

Someone could do a PHD thesis on the need some have to demonize others in order to satisfy some deep emotional need.

I think it is a human trait. Create an external monster, a pathology, in order to soothe oneself (maybe tell yourself that evil is due to external forces or something.)

It is fascinating how things get twisted beyond recognition to service egos here.

[R B Garr]

134. Thanks for your comments. I agree about things getting twisted

beyond recognition. They are even made up out of whole cloth in some instances.

But I also agree with you about the cardboard. A day or so of playing is fine, but after that it's just not front yard material for a semi-permanent basis.

[RobinA]

142. I Grew Up

in the country and have always wondered at the thinking behind many suburbanites who continually scope out their neighbors looking for some offense. I have a friend who has a fit because her neighbor plants tomatoes in the front yard. I never get why she cares. Same with the cardboard fort guy getting people all worked up. I guess your explanation is as good as any.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

124. "the look of the neighborhood" is completely subjective.

[R B Garr]

139. That's probably why the city inspector noticed it, then.

Heck, some people park their cars on their front lawns.

[Mariana]

125. It had been there for one day

when they got the notice from the city. When they built it, they planned to play with it for a few days and then get rid of it. Neighbors are supporting them.

[Warren DeMontague]

121. Put him in a cardboard jail.

Seriously, let it go. It'll be gone after the next rainstorm, and the guy did nice work.

Let the kids have fun, it's not permanent.

[yuiyoshida]

149. Is this going to be another

Ben Stiller, Adam Sandler movie? If so, I won't buy tickets.

[valerief]

151. A. It should never have gotten as far as it had. nt

[Warpy]

153. Sure are a lot of picklefaced people on DU who want it bulldozed

This thing is going to be trashed by the time the guy's 14 days are up, it's cardboard. It'll hit the wheelie recycler then. Until then, the kids will have a ball and I don't see what the problem is. Anything as temporary as a cardboard castle shouldn't be that hard to tolerate.

One year, the death of a refrigerator meant my Xmas present was the new fridge carton and a box of crayons. I was the envy of the neighborhood until a snowstorm rolled in and killed it.

Then again, I'm old enough not to give a damn and I live in an area where people use van seats for porch furniture while they save for the real thing and can put the seats back in the van. I'd look at something like that and go "oh, neat!"

I might be a little less sanguine about it if he built it out of old cinder blocks and sheet metal.

[struggle4progress]

159. "Ogden Mayor Mike Caldwell said despite the reports, the family has not been cited or fined.

'It was just a letter saying we had an anonymous complaint, and is this something you can address or if you need help with this give us a call,' the mayor said ... If the city chooses to issue a citation, the first fine will be $125."
Cardboard box fort in Ogden neighborhood in violation of city code, officials say
POSTED 10:09 PM, APRIL 6, 2015
BY ANNIE CUTLER
http://fox13now.com/2015/04/06/cardboard-box-fort-in-ogden-neighborhood-in-violation-of-city-code-officials-say/

[struggle4progress]

162. "Mayor Mike Caldwell also weighed in. 'I remember building forts with my friends as a kid.

It’s healthy for a child’s imagination to get away from their electronic devices for a while and use their imagination to create something. I’m glad to see that kids still want to play with the cardboard box,' he said ... Greg Scothern is Building Manager for the city and also oversees code enforcement. He told the Standard-Examiner Tuesday that Trentleman was issued the notification after a resident’s complaint. At the time the code enforcement officer visited the property the box fort was not complete and the warning was issued. Scothern said that the code enforcement officer did not visit the property last Wednesday to deliver the warning, but the warning was automatically generated one to two days before when the fort was not yet complete to his knowledge. 'I don’t think our code enforcement officer would have issued the warning if the box fort was complete. At the time he visited the property it looked like a bunch of boxes,' Scothern said."
Following cardboard box fort attention, Ogden city responds
WEDNESDAY , APRIL 08, 2015 - 9:11 AM
By RACHEL TROTTER
http://www.standard.net/Local/2015/04/08/Ogden-weighs-in-box-fort

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

178. non-violent/property crimes and summary offenses...

...should never result in jail time. I live in New Jersey. I know about excessive punishment. In my town you might get note in mail. After a month you may get a notice with a date 5-6 weeks away saying something of the nature of 'not correcting the issue by the due may result in a summons'.

However..
I pick D) other.
It's obviously time to send in Lon Horiuchi.