Make the Confederacy's Defeat a National Holiday

[KamaAina]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121406/civil-war-150th-anniversary-confederacy-defeat-should-be-holiday

In a speech one month ago, the first black president of the United States challenged millions of white Americans to resist the convenient allure of overlooking the country’s blemished moral record. It was a dual challenge, actually—first to the classical understanding of American exceptionalism, but also to America’s persistent critics, who abjure the concept of exceptionalism altogether.

“What greater expression of faith in the American experiment than this?” President Barack Obama said. “What greater form of patriotism is there than the belief that America is not yet finished, that we are strong enough to be self-critical, that each successive generation can look upon our imperfections and decide that it is in our power to remake this nation to more closely align with our highest ideals?”

This was both a rejection of the fairytale America perpetuated by American conservatives, in which national virtue overwhelms sin, and a statement of faith in the country’s robust capacity for self-improvement. And he delivered it in Selma, Alabama—a Southern city whose folksy name evokes state-sanctioned, state-administered violence against black citizens—on the fiftieth anniversary of Bloody Sunday. Selma would be a perverse venue for celebrating the Jingo’s exceptional America, but it was the perfect backdrop for Obama’s more nuanced rendering: the convening point of the march to Montgomery, on a bridge named after Edmund Pettus—a vicious white supremacist, who committed treason against the United States as a Confederate general, and later terrorized former slaves as an Alabama Klansman and Democratic Senator....

This week provides an occasion for the U.S. government to get real about history, as April 9 is the 150th anniversary of the Union’s victory in the Civil War. The generous terms of Robert E. Lee’s surrender to Ulysses S. Grant at Appomattox Court House foreshadowed a multitude of real and symbolic compromises that the winners of the war would make with secessionists, slavery supporters, and each other to piece the country back together. It’s as appropriate an occasion as the Selma anniversary to reflect on the country’s struggle to improve itself. And to mark the occasion, the federal government should make two modest changes: It should make April 9 a federal holiday; and it should commit to disavowing or renaming monuments to the Confederacy, and its leaders, that receive direct federal support.

[NYC_SKP]

1. Disagree, seems to be a movement to continue to punish the south.

Look:

and it should commit to disavowing or renaming monuments to the Confederacy, and its leaders, that receive direct federal support.

No, just plain no.

Celebrate the end of the Civil War, fine.

Carry on a campaign to punish the south and keep wounds open?

No, ridiculous and divisive.

"Modest changes"?

Hardly.

[dsc]

2. we have no business paying to upkeep confederate monuments

it would be like paying to upkeep a monument to Hitler.

[NYC_SKP]

4. There has to be a better way than a federal "you suck" holiday.

If the issue is using federal funds to maintain statues of confederate figures, then take it up the normal way through legislative action.

The civil war is a fact. Removing monuments is a lame attempt to re-write history.

I think the whole idea is odious. We simply need to educate, to tell the story, and let the monuments be reminders of the horrid past, not sweep it under the carpet like it never happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_War_Monuments_in_Washington,_D.C.

Shall we also place fig leaves on nudes throughout museums because it offends our sensibilities?

[dsc]

6. we have basses named after traitorous Confederate Generals

that is obscene. These people were no less the enemy of this country than the NAZIs were. I am unsure of the wisdom of the holiday though I can see the arguments for it. But I think it is a no brainer that we have no business at all spending federal tax money on monuments to traitors. We also have no business having military installations named after them.

[NYC_SKP]

8. If we had nothing more pressing to do, this might make sense.

I'm presently more concerned with freeing ourselves from the grip of oil companies and water monopolies.

I know, we can multi-task, but I'd rather be concentrating all of our energy on electing progressives, then that other work might be far less resisted.

Right now we have an uphill battle just keeping level.

[One of the 99]

37. Weak argument.

Sure there are more important issues, but that is not a reason to not do what is morally right.

[NYC_SKP]

38. I disagree that it's "morally right".

I oppose the idea on the merits.

Tearing down monuments does nothing, it's an empty and symbolic act.

Instead, use them as tools to teach about our history.

Concentration camps are preserved for that very reason.

[One of the 99]

46. So we should have monuments to racists

and traitors?

[NYC_SKP]

47. We should leve monuments up that were installed in the past and learn from them, yes.

Because the moment we start on this mission of replacing a Nixon bust with a Medgar Evers bust, the next admin might come in a replace that with a Hitler bust.

I'm serious, just leave it alone, it's as nutty as all the hullabaloo around nativity scenes.

[One of the 99]

50. Another weak argument

You're defending monuments to racists.

[NYC_SKP]

53. Yes, I'm defending monuments to racists-- not to honor them but to remind ourselves.

We have monuments to wars everywhere.

Would you like to remove those too?

I mean, you don't mean to defend world war two and it's use of nukes, or world war one and chemical warfare, do you?

[One of the 99]

58. But the monuments do honor them

So you ARE defending monuments to racists.

[NYC_SKP]

59. Yes, I AM!

But not as an honor to the racists.

I just don't fancy new generations trying to rewrite history and waste resources trying to remake the world in a way that matches their own personal happy view.

History is out there, don't try to erase it.

[One of the 99]

60. It's a weak and dishonest argument

At the end of the day you're defending monument to racism.

[Yupster]

39. and sopranos and altos

and perch and tuna too.

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[Orrex]

40. I admire your tenor.

[onenote]

17. Two responses to get to Godwin's Law

Congratulations.

[dsc]

18. if the shoe fits

both are places we fought a war against, both treated a race of humans horridly, and both richly deserve to be on the ash heap of history.

[onenote]

19. The idea that the shoe fits suggests you need some history lessons.

[dsc]

20. the only difference between NAZI's and the Confederates

is efficacy. The NAZIs were way more effective due to have way better technology. But in terms of goals, it is hard to separate them.

[onenote]

24. Genocide is different than slavery

That's not to downplay the horror of slavery, but the south didn't want to exterminate blacks. The Nazis wanted to exterminate the Jews.

I'm sorry if you don't see that they're not the same.

[oneshooter]

27. Now the Japanese, they were into slavery.

Look at the way Allied POW's were worked and starved to death. Not to mention the millions of "locals" that were enslaved in the name of "Greater Asia Co-Prosperity".

[Adrahil]

30. Hmmm...

The majority of Jews who died in the holocaust were not killed in the gas chambers. They were worked to death. As slave labor.

The number of black slaves in America who died from neglect or who died young because of overwork and harsh living conditions eclipses those who died in the holocaust.

The only difference I can see is that the Nazis wanted the Jews to die fairly quickly, whereas the Southern slave holders wanted to breed their "livestock" so they could exploit and abuse the NEXT generation.

Maybe you wanna split moral hairs, but I have a hard time separating one as more evil than the other, and don't care to bother doing so.

[JaneyVee]

33. You don't think blacks were victims of genocide?

[Yupster]

41. The number of African-Americans in the south before the Civil War

grew every year even after the slave trade was ended.

The reason was that slaves could be sold so they were worth money. If you have something worth money, you want to make more of them.

So, no. If you want more of a certain group of people and try to breed more of them, that is a much different thing than genocide.

I think of Inino Montoya from the Princess Bride saying "I don't think you're using that word correctly."

[onenote]

43. In the American South? No.

You're not going to like that answer, but genocide is the systematic destruction of all or a significant part of a racial, ethnic , religious or national group.

African-American slaves were a resource to the white landowners of the south. Systematically destroying the African-American population would have destroyed the southern economy. So while slavery was morally indefensible and incredibly cruel -- and without drawing any relative moral judgments with regard to slavery v. genocide -- the fact remains that genocide is not slavery (and slavery is not genocide) and that African-Americans were not the subject of genocide in the American south.

3.1 percent of the population of the Upper South states and 1.1 percent of the population of the lower south states were freed blacks in 1860. The fact that there were freed blacks in the slave states also doesn't square with attempts to blur the distinction between genocide and slavery.

[Zorra]

29. And honoring people who fought a war so that they

could retain the legal right to own human beings is an ongoing slap in the face to the African American ccommunity.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

9. +1000000000000000000000 n/t

[onehandle]

10. The South is currently punishing us all with Republican control of the country.

I'd go so far as saying this age is the second Confederacy and they are at war with us.

And I'm a Southerner.

[cwydro]

11. Plenty of republican jerks

throughout the country.

Not just the south.

[Art_from_Ark]

16. I can name a few from Wisconsin alone

And then there are those wacky governors of Michigan, New Jersey and Indiana, and Speaker Orangeman from Ohio, and Senator Breadbag from Iowa, and Governor Fracking of Pennsylvania, and...

[cwydro]

22. Lol!

Thank you!

[Smithryee]

25. Gov Fracking was thankfully kicked out.

Gov Wolf is there to kick ass.

[onehandle]

23. The lion's share of control is below the Mason-Dixon line. It is the Confederacy 2.0. nt

[onenote]

28. there are a lot of repubs elected outside the old confederacy

37 repub senators come from states that didn't secede.
170 rebub members of the house come from states that didn't secede.

In fact, if you simply didn't count the House members from the states that seceded, repubs would still have a majority of the house.

So, folks shouldn't be fooled into thinking that this is just a "southern" problem

[steve2470]

12. I agree with you, and not just because I am a southerner

There's a lot of wisdom in that old saying, "let sleeping dogs lie". It applies here. Any southerner with a brain knows they lost. They also know exactly why and that it's a good thing. The revisionist idiots can go blather in obscurity.

[cordelia]

34. The only people I hear re-fighting the Civil War

are people who have maybe never even been to the South and want to continue punishing those of us who live here and are trying to make changes for the better.

It's insulting to us, and counterproductive.

[steve2470]

48. I agree

We southerners and other progressives need to continue to fight the revisionism and racism in our communities. We do NOT need to "rip the scab off the wound", so to speak, and rub salt in it with anything further.

The Civil War ended 150 years ago. Let sleeping dogs lie. There's always going to be idiots who revise the past and who make racist and stupid statements. The same thing is happening in Germany, with the neo-Nazis.

[Behind the Aegis]

49. There are two types "re-fighting" the Civil War, the bigots and the ones you mentioned.

It is none to amusing how many forget the North was none to innocent in the business of slave trading, including making land deals based on slavery. Then of course, there were the original inhabitants who were wiped to near extinction. Do we rename all places and statues based on those people?

[Pooka Fey]

51. + Infinity

Well said. Great post.

[tenderfoot]

55. All the more reason to do just that.

It's too nice to be honest.

[Nye Bevan]

3. Rename things named after KKK officers?

Robert C. Byrd Academic and Technology Center, Marshall University in Huntington, West Virginia[6][9][10]
Robert C. Byrd Academic and Technology Center, Marshall University Graduate College in South Charleston, West Virginia[9][10]
Robert C. Byrd Auditorium, National Conservation Training Center in Shepherdstown, West Virginia[9][10][11]
Robert C. Byrd Biotechnology Science Center, Marshall University in Huntington, West Virginia[6][9][10][12][13]
Robert C. Byrd Cancer Research Laboratory, West Virginia University in Morgantown, West Virginia[6][9][10]
Robert C. Byrd Center for Legislative Studies, Shepherd University in Shepherdstown, West Virginia[9][10][14]
Robert C. Byrd Center for Pharmacy Education, University of Charleston in Charleston, West Virginia[9][10]
Robert C. Byrd Center for Rural Health, Marshall University in Huntington, West Virginia[6][9]
Robert C. Byrd Clinical Teaching Center, Charleston Area Medical Center Memorial Hospital in Charleston, West Virginia[9][10]
Robert C. Byrd Green Bank Telescope, Green Bank, West Virginia[6][9][10]
Robert C. Byrd Hardwood Technologies Center, Princeton, West Virginia[6][9][10]
Robert C. Byrd Health and Wellness Center, Bethany College in Bethany, West Virginia[9][10]
Robert C. Byrd Health Sciences Center, West Virginia University in Morgantown, West Virginia[6][9][10]
Robert C. Byrd Health Sciences Center Charleston Division, Charleston, West Virginia[9]
Robert C. Byrd High School, Clarksburg, West Virginia[6][9][15]
Robert C. Byrd Institute for Advanced Flexible Manufacturing (RCBI) Bridgeport Manufacturing Technology Center, Bridgeport, West Virginia[9][10][16]
RCBI Charleston Manufacturing Technology Center, South Charleston, West Virginia[6][9][10][16]
RCBI Huntington Manufacturing Technology Center, Huntington, West Virginia[9][10][16]
RCBI Rocket Center Manufacturing Technology Center, Rocket Center, West Virginia[9][10][16][17]
Robert C. Byrd Institute for Composites Technology and Training Center, Bridgeport, West Virginia[9]
Robert C. Byrd Library, Wheeling, West Virginia[9]
Robert C. Byrd Library and Robert C. Byrd Learning Resource Center, University of Charleston in Beckley[6][9][10]
Robert C. Byrd Life Long Learning Center, Eastern West Virginia Community and Technical College in Moorefield, West Virginia[9]
Robert C. Byrd Life Long Learning Center, West Virginia University in Morgantown, West Virginia[10]
Robert C. Byrd Metals Fabrication Center, Rocket Center, West Virginia[9][10][17]
Robert C. Byrd National Aerospace Education Center, Bridgeport, West Virginia (affiliated with Fairmont State University)[9][10]
Robert C. Byrd National Technology Transfer Center, Wheeling Jesuit University in Wheeling, West Virginia[6][9][18]
Robert C. Byrd Regional Training Institute, Camp Dawson near Kingwood, West Virginia[9]
Robert C. Byrd Science and Technology Center, Shepherd University in Shepherdstown, West Virginia[6][9][10]
Robert C. Byrd Technology Center, Alderson–Broaddus College in Philippi, West Virginia[6][9][10]
Robert C. Byrd United Technical Center[6][10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_named_after_Robert_Byrd

[Kingofalldems]

13. Except he disavowed the KKK.

Did you forget? Did Lee apologize? Jefferson Davis?

[Telcontar]

31. Lee did. Not sure about JD

[Yupster]

42. Davis lived a long time after the war

He was indicted for treason and spent the rest of his life demanding his trial.

He had a team of high powered northern lawyers and his position was that the southern states left the union legally, were an illegally conquered nation, and would the northern occupying army kindly go back home so he could set to work repairing his torn to shreds unhappy land.

Though the President of the USA was a long time personal enemy of his, he was never given that trial. Eventually he was bailed out of jail by northern millionaires but he was never given his trial.

As far as I know Lee never apologized, but he urged his men to just go home and live useful lives. He was also indicted for treason.

He certainly did. He took the presidency of Washington University and changed it dramatically getting rid of things like Greek and Latin and adding more practical subjects like engineering.

There's a great scene from a letter a student wrote to his family. He wrote that after class, some students took to the field to play a new game called baseball. One day the old general came by on his warhorse Traveller, stopped and sat down to watch the baseball game for a little while.

I thought that is one of those pictures I'd like to see from history that shows the changing of the eras.

[Telcontar]

44. Lee's Amnysty Oath was lost for 140 years

It was recovered in the 70s and he had his citizenship restored by President Ford.

[LanternWaste]

5. I'd be the first to fly a giant-sized white flag off the patio of my Texas apartment.

I think I'd celebrate that particular holiday more than most other holidays. Heck, I'd be the first to fly a giant-sized white flag off the patio of my Texas apartment.

It would certainly reduce memorializing the rebellion as a tragedy of circumstance, or a bravely fought battle of principle and possibly open some half-witted eyes to the horrors of 625,000 deaths (more US deaths than WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam combined)-- 2% of the population-- all a direct result of some elderly white males really, really wanting to maintain "freedom".

[KamaAina]

26. Perfect!

[Telcontar]

32. After more recent research, i believe the toll now is estimated at 800k

[FSogol]

7. LOL, every day is Confederate Defeat Day!

Losers, each and every one of them.

[Bonx]

14. Long ago dead, each and every one of them.

[struggle4progress]

15. Coming to Us Dead

[napkinz]

21. sounds like a good idea considering how so many still CELEBRATE that era ...

[cordelia]

35. Thanks for the South bashing thread! It's so unique and liberal.

And tiresome.

[KamaAina]

45. As a former NOLA resident, I do not engage in South bashing.

Confederate bashing is a whole different animal. Example: Activists in NOLA have unofficially renamed Jefferson Davis Parkway in Mid-City as "Angela Davis Parkway".

[tenderfoot]

57. I think the South should give all the tax $ they get from the rest of us back!

That'll show everyone else!

[Laxman]

36. There Might Be Something To This....

that is beyond "bashing the South". Celebrating the end of what could only be described as a horrendous war and the re-unification of the country might be worthwhile. In the aftermath of the Civil War the country wanted to pretend it never happened. Andrew Johnson bungled reconstruction after Lincoln's assassination. The failure to appropriately address the divisions that led to the war in the first place still haunt us to a degree-despite the time that has passed and the history we have shared as a nation. So,as a vehicle for shaming or taunting the South this would be a ridiculous idea. As a reminder that the war ended and the country brought back together-well there are worse things to celebrate.

The surrender completed, the two generals saluted somberly and parted. "This will live in history," said one of Grant's aides. But the Union commander seemed distracted. Having given birth to a reunited nation, he experienced a post-partum melancholy. "I felt . . . sad and depressed," Grant wrote, "at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought." As news of the surrender spread through Union camps, batteries began firing joyful salutes until Grant ordered them stopped. "The war is over," he said; "the rebels are our countrymen again, and the best sight of rejoicing after the victory will be to abstain from all demonstrations." To help bring those former rebels back in the Union, Grant sent three days' rations for 25,000 men across the lines. This perhaps did something to ease the psychological as well as physical pain of Lee's soldiers.

After 150 years it might seem silly to keep re-living the past, but isn't that what we keep doing-in an increasingly nonsensical manner as it becomes almost spiteful on both sides of the issue. Maybe taking the time to acknowledge the horrific nature of the Civil War and the real meaning of reunification would be beneficial.

[underpants]

52. I drove through the Appomattox battlefield twice last weekend

There is a big re-enactment taking place this weekend.

If you get a chance you should take a drive around Richmond VA - this place is littered with second place trophies

[El Supremo]

54. But Appomattox Court House was not the last surrender. It wasn't even the largest.

The largest was on April 26 at Bennett Place, NC where Gen. Joseph E. Johnston surrendered to Maj. Gen. William Tecumseh Sherman. My Great Grandfather was there (76th Penna. Volunteers).

There were three more subsequent surrenders.

So which date do you want to use to humiliate the South further?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bennett_Place

[NightWatcher]

56. How about we just let it go. Ignore the day and everything else about the Confeds