ETs for Hillary: Why UFO Activists Are Excited About Another Clinton Presidency

[IDemo]

Last edited Sat Apr 4, 2015, 10:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Stephen Bassett is ready for Hillary. Bassett, Capitol Hill's only registered UFO lobbyist, anticipates that another Clinton presidency will offer another shot at what's long been the Holy Grail for extraterrestrial enthusiasts: full disclosure of what the US government really knows about aliens. "This is the most important issue in the world," he says.

His enthusiasm is shared by Michael Salla, an academic turned UFO researcher who maintains that aliens have been secretly involved in American politics since the Cold War. He thinks a Clinton presidency would be a good thing for the UFO community. "I think Hillary would play a positive role in getting this information out," he says. "I think that Hillary definitely is much more the pro-disclosure candidate, where as someone like Jeb Bush is basically status quo."

The UFO activists' hopes for Hillary are pinned on the assumption she believes in their cause—despite having never spoken publicly about it. In particular, they are encouraged that John Podesta, Bill Clinton's former chief of staff, will likely chair Clinton's campaign and would likely serve in another Clinton White House. As a self-described "curious skeptic," Podesta has openly called for greater government transparency on UFO-related matters. In his forward to UFOs: Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials Go on the Record, a 2011 book by journalist Leslie Kean, he wrote, "It's time to find out what the truth really is that's out there. The American people—and people around the world—want to know, and they can handle the truth."

Podesta's interest in extraterrestrial phenomenon is nothing new. In 1998, the Washington Post described his "fanatical devotion to 'The X-Files'—especially FBI agent Fox Mulder, with whom he shares a penchant for obsessiveness and paranoia." Grant Cameron, a Canadian UFO researcher, unsuccessfully tried to get the Clinton Library to release records detailing Podesta's X-Files-themed 50th birthday party, which was apparently thrown by the first couple—who may have dressed up as the show's main characters.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/03/hillary-clinton-ufo-aliens-podesta

[uppityperson]

2. Welcome to DU. Why is it impossible?

[IDemo]

10. It's a hypothesis, not an inviolable fundamental law

The "Paradox" is based on more than one assumption - that alien civilizations would have the same curiosity and drive for exploration that humans do; that exponential growth is part of their paradigm; that they have the degree of advancement to traverse interstellar space but not to derive resources locally; that they would not have advanced into non-organic forms requiring much less in mineral and energy resources, or that they would find us even remotely interesting. The list goes on.

[Wilms]

3. Welcome to DU!

[Xipe Totec]

6. But, but, they said many things were impossible

They said man could not fly, and we have planes.

They said man would never walk on the moon and Neil Armstrong walked on the moon.

Therefore, if you say something is impossible, it's proof that it is true!


Because impossible -> it happened.

QED - Quod Erat Dumbostratum.

ETA - Welcome to DU!

[longship]

7. I would never say it is impossible.

However, I would say that it is very highly unlikely given the distances between stars and what we know about our galaxy and physics.

But I won't say it is impossible, especially given the 200 billion stars in the Milky Way, and given its age. Fermi asked the question, Where are they?

My answer is that the distances are huge and intelligent life may very well be sparse in our galaxy.

Nevertheless, I think that intelligent life almost certainly exists beyond our solar system. Contemplating visitation to our system is to tread into alien psychology, which is problematic even with our species.

And yes, SETI is a great scientific program. A discovery would change the world. If only.

The UFO kooks don't even begin to get to the scrimmage line.

Regards.

[spin]

11. The problem I see with SETI is that advanced civilizations may have developed ...

and use methods of communication far more advanced then we do.

At one time we used to use smoke signals. At that time nobody would have predicted that orbiting satallites would provide world wide communications.

As we gain more understanding of quantrum mechanics we may devolop far better ways to communicate.

It is also possible that we may learn how to warp space time and travel faster than the speed of light.

The Alcubierre drive or Alcubierre metric (referring to metric tensor) is a speculative idea based on a solution of Einstein's field equations in general relativity as proposed by theoretical physicist Miguel Alcubierre, by which a spacecraft could achieve faster-than-light travel if a configurable energy-density field lower than that of vacuum (i.e. negative mass) could be created. Rather than exceeding the speed of light within a local reference frame, a spacecraft would traverse distances by contracting space in front of it and expanding space behind it, resulting in effective faster-than-light travel.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

If we find a way to avoid using our technology to destroy ourselves, imagine how advanced we could be in a thousand years.

[longship]

13. Yup! But how much energy does the Alcubierre drive consume?

Even if it is theoretically possible, which is by no means a given.

It is pretty well known that relativity is the big deal in the universe, meaning the light speed is a real limit. The Alcubierre drive uses the real effect of the expansion of the universe can really be faster than light speed without violating relativity to posit a Star Trek like warp drive.

But, it is not in any way beyond anything but wishful speculation, especially given the required energy to make such a thing work.

Nevertheless, I love these Star Trek speculations. On the other hand, I will never, ever step into a transporter beam. (mainly due to the continuity problem).

Alas, I suspect that the reason why their are no alien visitors to Earth is because interstellar travel is a fucking bitch due to the very physical laws we already know well.

My best to you.

[spin]

15. Perhaps you may have noticed I was talking about a long time frame. ...

Perhaps a thousand years in the future.

Of course we may see amazing developments far faster than that.

Knowledge Doubling Every 12 Months, Soon to be Every 12 Hours
By: David Russell Schilling | April 19th, 2013

Knowledge Doubling Curve

Buckminster Fuller created the “Knowledge Doubling Curve”; he noticed that until 1900 human knowledge doubled approximately every century. By the end of World War II knowledge was doubling every 25 years. Today things are not as simple as different types of knowledge have different rates of growth. For example, nanotechnology knowledge is doubling every two years and clinical knowledge every 18 months. But on average human knowledge is doubling every 13 months. According to IBM, the build out of the “internet of things” will lead to the doubling of knowledge every 12 hours.
http://www.industrytap.com/knowledge-doubling-every-12-months-soon-to-be-every-12-hours/3950

The future may well prove to be fascinating. One hundred years from now, people may view the world we live in now as ancient history and view us as little better than cavemen.

[longship]

16. But not break physical law.

Dreams of faster than light travel are not likely to come true. And I think those predicting rapid tech advancement acceleration are dreaming. (In other words, I think Ray Kurzweil's an utter loony.)

Predicting the future is just not very accurate.

[spin]

18. At one time scientists felt everything of importance had been discovered. ...

Science is at its end, all the important things have already been discovered!

It seems that every so often, a fairly large group of scientists begin to assert that science is just about complete, that the vast unknown is gone, and that all the really major research can stop because we now know everything except the details.

For those who fall under the spell of this sort of belief, be aware that a similar belief seemed to have taken hold at the turn of the last century. This was just before Relativity and Quantum Mechanics appeared on the scene and opened up new realms for exploration.

From 1874:

"When I began my physical studies [in Munich in 1874] and sought advice from my venerable teacher Philipp von Jolly... he portrayed to me physics as a highly developed, almost fully matured science... Possibly in one or another nook there would perhaps be a dust particle or a small bubble to be examined and classified, but the system as a whole stood there fairly secured, and theoretical physics approached visibly that degree of perfection which, for example, geometry has had already for centuries."
- from a 1924 lecture by Max Planck (Sci. Am, Feb 1996 p.10)

***snip***

"I have begun to feel that there is a tendency in 20th Century science to forget that there will be a 21st Century science, and indeed a 30th Century science, from which vantage points our knowledge of the universe may appear quite different than it does to us. We suffer, perhaps, from temporal provincialism, a form of arrogance that has always irritated posterity. - J. Allen Hynek, letter to Science magazine, August 1, 1966
http://amasci.com/weird/end.html

Until recently I felt one of the most difficult aspects of sending explorers and possibly colonists to Mars was the duration of the trip. I may have to reconsider.

The Revolutionary Rocket That Could Shuttle Humans to Mars

Robert Markowitz and Bill Stafford/JSC/NASA

Traveling to Mars is not easy, which may be why no one has ever tried. It would take a good six to nine months to get there with today’s chemical-fueled rockets. Along the way, according to a 2013 study, you’d get dosed with the radiation equivalent of a whole-body CT scan every five to six days, increasing your lifetime cancer risk above the limits set by NASA. Upon reaching the Red Planet, you’d wait up to two years for Earth and Mars to be at their closest before your return trip, which would last another six to nine months. If the cosmic rays didn’t get you, the long layover might.

But what if there were a better way — a new kind of rocket that could transport you to Mars in less than six weeks? It would drastically cut both travel time and radiation exposure, and instead of three years, the entire round-trip flight could theoretically last just three months. This isn’t mere sci-fi speculation: In a nondescript warehouse in Webster, Texas, a forward-thinking scientist is developing a prototype rocket engine that could make space travel faster than ever before.

Franklin Chang Díaz, an MIT-trained physicist and former NASA astronaut, has spent more than 30 years tinkering with the rocket engine he invented, which he believes can transform interplanetary flight. In 2005, he founded a company, Ad Astra (Latin for “to the stars”), to pursue that goal, and he remains an unabashed advocate of space exploration. “The first person that is going to walk on Mars has already been born,” he says. And he hopes they’ll use his rocket to get there.

***snip***

VASIMR’s first test in space is tentatively set for 2016 aboard the International Space Station. Instead of nuclear power, the engine will rely on bursts of power from large battery packs charged by the station’s solar panels. Assuming all goes well, Chang Díaz says, Ad Astra will then pursue multiple near-term applications of VASIMR, such as periodically nudging the space station and other large satellites into stable orbits.
http://discovermagazine.com/2014/may/12-rocketman

Obviously I am far more optimistic about the future than you are. If we can just find a way to avoid destroying ourselves with our technology, I feel we will eventually explore the galaxy. I see finding a way to control our aggressive nature as a final test of a civilization that has developed the technology to leave their home planet but hasn't yet discovered how to travel to near stars. If we pass the test we may spread through the galaxy over time but if we fail we will at the best start over once again from the stone age.

[longship]

19. I am all for human space travel!!

Better that than wars.

But I do not go along with Star Trek wet dreams, or -- Horrors! -- Matrix wet dreams (are you listening, Ray Kurzweil?).

Science is a rather conservative enterprise. It doesn't so much as supplant previous theory as it does amend it, making it more accurate. Those days where whole bodies of theory are discarded for new are thankfully gone. We don't have things that wrong that that could credibly happen.

Quantum Field Theory is the most precise theory in history. Like Feynman said about it:

1. If you think you understand quantum theory, you do not understand quantum theory.

2. The accuracy of Quantum Electrodynamics is like measuring the distance from New York to Los Angeles to the accuracy of the width of a hair.

The take away of this is that although science is not perfect, but it is pretty damned good. Relativity is not likely to ever be overthrown. (Sorry, no faster than light travel for you!)

As for VASIMR... It does have its detractors, including apparently Robert Zubrin. And me.

Plus, we do have ion propulsion, which apparently is a bit more advanced. It is that nasty rocket equation thingie again, more basic science that gets in the way of advances which have no possibilities.

[spin]

20. As I stated I am talking about a long time in the future. ...

Here's an interesting article I found on the Nasa.gov site that you might find interesting.

Status of "Warp Drive"

"Warp Drives", "Hyperspace Drives", or any other term for Faster-than-light travel is at the level of speculation, with some facets edging into the realm of science. We are at the point where we know what we do know and know what we don’t, but do not know for sure if faster than light travel is possible....emphasis added
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/warp/warpstat_prt.htm

It's a long article but has some fascinating concepts covered in the links.

Ideas Based On What We Know
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/warp/ideaknow.html

I found this section very interesting and I'll post a short excerpt.

Ideas Based On What We’d Like To Achieve

***snip***


Alcubierre’s "Warp Drive"

Here’s the premise behind the Alcubierre "warp drive": Although Special Relativity forbids objects to move faster than light within spacetime, it is unknown how fast spacetime itself can move. To use an analogy, imagine you are on one of those moving sidewalks that can be found in some airports. The Alcubierre warp drive is like one of those moving sidewalks. Although there may be a limit to how fast one can walk across the floor (analogous to the light speed limit), what about if you are on a moving section of floor that moves faster than you can walk (analogous to a moving section of spacetime)? In the case of the Alcubierre warp drive, this moving section of spacetime is created by expanding spacetime behind the ship (analogous to where the sidewalk emerges from underneath the floor), and by contracting spacetime in front of the ship (analogous to where the sidewalk goes back into the floor). The idea of expanding spacetime is not new. Using the "Inflationary Universe" perspective, for example, it is thought that spacetime expanded faster than the speed of light during the early moments of the Big Bang. So if spacetime can expand faster than the speed of light during the Big Bang, why not for our warp drive? These theories are too new to have either been discounted or proven viable.

Any other sticky issues?

Yes... First, to create this effect, you’ll need a ring of negative energy wrapped around the ship, and lots of it too. It is still debated in physics whether negative energy can exist. Classical physics tends toward a "no," while quantum physics leans to a "maybe, yes." Second, you’ll need a way to control this effect to turn it on and off at will. This will be especially tricky since this warp effect is a separate effect from the ship. Third, all this assumes that this whole "warp" would indeed move faster than the speed of light. This is a big unknown. And fourth, if all the previous issues weren’t tough enough, these concepts evoke the same time-travel paradoxes as the wormhole concepts.
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/warp/ideachev.html

The bottom line is we need a break though in physics to be able to visit the stars. However it may be possible. Time will tell.


However far modern science and techniques have fallen short of their inherent possibilities, they have taught mankind at least one lesson; nothing is impossible.
Lewis Mumford

[hifiguy]

21. Read Michio Kaku's "Physics of the Future" and

"Physics of the Impossible." Fascinating reading and not at all mathematically oriented. Kaku is one of the best brains out there. Also Brian Greene's three books. GREAT and very mind-expanding stuff.

[longship]

24. Michio Cuckoo?

That guy is bordering on Loonie Toons.

And Strings are a real problem in theoretic physics. Even Brian Green says so. Not so Michio, who claims to be the inventor of string field theory. (Self promoter.)

Strings are a real problem. They've been trying to come up with the "Theory of Everything" since the 1960's. As Pauli might have said, "It is not even wrong."

And Kaku (Cuckoo) is deep into a lot of woo-woo on top of it all. Physics of the impossible? Bah! That's not even wrong, too.

Needless to say, I am not a fan.

I think quantum fields are the way. Unfortunately we've taken them about as far as we can without finding more symmetries, or broken ones. Nevertheless, strings or so-called M-theory seems to be little more than mathematical legerdemain.

But that's just my personal opinion, based solely on a BS in physics and my meager attempts at keeping up with it all.

Regards.


On edit: I like Sean Carroll, though. You ought to read his blog,
http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/

[hifiguy]

25. Einstein spent the last 40 years of his life trying to figure out

the Theory of Everything and it defied even his genius. Though it must be admitted that Einstein wasn't a big fan of quantum theory, and his resistance to quantum theory probably blocked his efforts, at least in part..

String theory is fascinating, IMO. Physics is my new favorite subject. How the universe works is the most interesting question there is.

The Kaku books I mentioned discuss, more than anything else, the theoretical and practical problems with realizing the technologies we nerds and geeks dote on in science fiction fandom.

[longship]

26. Einstein's problem is that he rejected quantum mechanics.

He called it spooky action at a distance. That is kind of amazing given that he won his Nobel prize for proving light was a quantized particle, the photoelectric effect.

But once Bohr, Pauli, deBroglie, Schrödinger, Heisenberg, Dirac, Feynman, etc. got a hold of it, Einstein had been utterly eclipsed. He put it very succinctly:

To punish me for my contempt for authority, fate made me an authority myself.

And he faded in physics after that Nobel in 1921.

He could not see that all the data supported quantum theory. He only saw the dice that he was sure that god did not roll. (Not that he believed in such a god.)

I recommend Walter Issacson's Einstein bio. It is a great read, and he does not skimp on the science.

But apparently strings are going nowhere. Physics departments have apparently wasted decades on it, apparently to the benefit of mathematicians, and apparently theoretical physicists who learned enough to know that it is rubbish, but took in some great new math skills.

Who knows? It is above my pay grade. But I think when you take the physics out of physics and relegate it to mathematical modeling, you have nothing. Certainly there is no ground on which one can build a theory. One has to build new theory on the physics we know, not on some mathematical adventure like the Gamma function.

[hifiguy]

27. I read the Isaacson book about a month ago.

An excellent read. Reading Greene's "The Fabric of the Cosmos" has been a real brain-bender so far. Particularly the sections experimentally verifying "spooky action" at distances of tens of kilometers and quantum erasure. The relation of quantum physics to time is another mind-roasting concept. Gonna have to re-read that section a couple of more times.

I don't think there is another theory of recent times that has been proved to have such immense predictive power (and never once refuted) as quantum theory. IIRC Richard Feynman once "If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics." If a genuine genius like him has trouble wrapping his brilliance around the quantum world I don't feel quite so bad about being stumped.

[longship]

28. I've read Greene's books.

Strings and M-theory have neither the explanatory power of QFT (quantum field theory) nor the experimental support. This is no matter what Michio Cuckoo says.

My thinking is that strings are deader than a Tyson chicken.

But the multi-universes hypothesis is gaining ground.

I hope you visit Sean Carroll's Blog.
Preposterous Universe

As always.

[hifiguy]

29. Thanks for the link.

I can't get enough of this topic!

[longship]

30. I am one of your fans here. You stand up. nt

[Katashi_itto]

8. I always suspected Hillary was an Alien. I know the teabaggers are.

Just not sure what race she is. The teabaggers are some kind of space locust. Devouring everything in their path.

[FLPanhandle]

9. LOL

There are a lot of crazy illogical beliefs out there, but it takes a special kind of stupid to believe aliens are visiting the Earth and all the world governments are keeping it secret.

[hifiguy]

22. Hey, Scientologists believe it!

But they are batshit crazy.

[IDemo]

17. There appears to have been an alien abduction in this thread..

[Brother Buzz]

23. Duzy worthy!