Women's Reproductive Rights are every bit as important as LGBT rights or

[cali]

fighting racism. And virtually every single day, in state after state after state, revolting discriminatory laws that are designed to treat women as brainless children and to punish medical professionals, are passed.

If you don't realize this, if you don't speak about it, if you don't fight for a woman's right to choose, you're not supporting a woman's right to not be discriminated against legally.

[dembotoz]

1. yes

[LynneSin]

2. That's why I don't call the Indiana bill Anti-LGBT

I call it a HATE bill because I know it could be used against Women too and probably other groups of so-called 'Christians' deem 'unworthy'.

If you can hate one group of people you can hate on any of us.

[Downwinder]

20. Can the Indiana Law be used to protect reproductive rights?

If a Clinic's operators can site religious beliefs does that throw state regulations out?

[LynneSin]

26. If a pharmacist doesn't believe in abortion they could use the law to not hand out...

birth control pills so you have that.

So yes.

[Downwinder]

31. But if he believes in choice can he hand

them out without restriction?

[valerief]

155. Don't birth control pills have to be prescribed by a doctor? nt

[uppityperson]

161. things needing a prescription still need that but could hand it condoms, non-rx of course.

[LynneSin]

168. You still need a prescription

But for some states PlanB is available over the counter but even then some pharmacists thinks that is a form of abortion and could lead a women into the paths of hell and damnation.

[jeff47]

54. No.

The state can claim they have a compelling reason to regulate those clinics. The new law has an exception for such compelling reason.

It's the same reason you couldn't use the law to directly discriminate against women - the state has a law banning that, creating a compelling reason.

[dsc]

69. I don't know about that example

but a church of Satan is handing out (online) slips to use to avoid having doctors give those misleading anti abortion scripts that they have to follow in many states. Not sure if that has been used or litigated yet though.

[calimary]

28. You BETTER BELIEVE they'd try to use it against women and other groups, too. As many other groups

as they're able to not like.

You BETTER BELIEVE IT. It's gonna be used against women wanting to go to the pharmacy to fill a prescription for contraceptives. If the pharmacist is extremist, he or she can whine - "but... but... but... it's against my religion that women should have access to birth control! They shouldn't be able to control their own bodies. I can't stand for it. Can't support it. Their bodies are under MY jurisdiction.

Want proof? pence mentioned Hobby Lobby DIRECTLY several times during his news conference this morning. HE himself is making my point.

BANK ON IT. You understand human nature as well as I do, LynneSin. You totally get that ANY weasel in Indiana who thinks his/her religion trumps a woman's right to choose will look for ANY reason, ANY excuse, ANY loophole, ANY law to hide behind, ANY religious ANYTHING to hide behind - to thwart a woman's efforts to get a birth control prescription filled.

SAME THING for mixed-race marriage. SAME THING for anything the religionistas think they don't like. Give 'em an inch, they'll take a lightyear. After all, they think they have God on THEIR side. So they'll go to any lengths they have to.

BELIEVE IT.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

46. sure do.

...


I'm just too angry about the silence surrounding the 40 year sentence given to a young woman ASSUMED guilty of infanticide.

Miscarriages happen all the time.
The women who suffer that, and DON'T FIT CONSERVATIVE IMAGERY OF ACCEPTABILITY, whose circumstances veer into ANY grey area that goes against the romanticized myths of ideal motherhood are now in a fight for their literal lives.

[calimary]

66. But don't you get it, Blanche? Women are containers.

That's all we are. We're fuckin' damn Tupperware. That's the only thing of value about our gender with these people.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

71. I've been saying that since forever...that women aren't really people.

We've been so thoroughly dehumanized.

Been on DU since ...2003 I think? I was FizzFuzz, who got booted for being too vocal about just how women are trtreated. Used to be worse on DU...the lady-bashers almost always won, no matter how badly they'd been provoking any woman.

So, Women's Suffering Doesn't Matter.

[Major Hogwash]

131. Wow, that is a powerful statement!

And so sad, and yet so pathetic at the same time . . . to think that some men would be like that.

I would like to take the time now to apologize to you for the rude behavior that a few men treated you like that here at DU, even though I do not behave in that manner.
Not all men are like that, and I want you to know that is true because I think it is important to stand with women, on a shoulder to shoulder basis.
Based in equality, neither forcing the woman to walk behind the man, or off to one side, but in close ranks, standing together as one people, regardless of race, creed, color, gender, or religion.

I can't imagine a world without women.
And I wouldn't want to live in one.

Even though it is not Mother's Day on the calendar, it is Mother's Day everyday in my house!

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

103. Show on Syfy "Helix" just introduced that concept in the last episode.

The american taliban, aka TeaParTY, hates women and will either control them or kill them.

The SyFy show isnt reflecting any of this specifically, it is just that when I saw the story line treating women this way it reminded me of the TeaParTY.

We are at war, they know it, we dont.

[haikugal]

113. They want to enforce their notion of morality...

They think they know better and as part of their effort to 'take back Amerika' they will force themselves on us....for our own good of course. I have come to really hate these monsters.

[nashville_brook]

29. women BARELY have reproductive rights in Indiana -- "extremely hostile state"

to truly appreciate the trend line here, is to recognize that we've abandoned women's rights.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2015/01/05/report-the-number-of-states-extremely-hostile-to-abortion/

[LynneSin]

33. That's obvious- a woman who had a miscarriage might get 70 years in jail

Which you know, it's not like there aren't enough non-violent drug offenders in jail already let's pack it in with women who get scared shitless after having a miscarriage too!

[nashville_brook]

36. but we're way more concerned that a gay couple might not be able to buy flowers from a xtian?

it just doesn't track for me.

[nichomachus]

56. Wow -- what a way to trivialize it

It's not about buying flowers. So you may want to put that straw man back in the closet for another day. It's about a state specifically allowing people to discriminate against a class of people and use an idiotic excuse such as "religious beliefs." If that flies, then more than just LGBT people are in jeopardy.

As a devout Catholic business owner, I could claim my religious beliefs were opposed to divorce, and fire every divorced employee who refused to go back to their "real" spouse.

[nashville_brook]

146. and women's healthcare isn't just about abortions -- but we get no help

from other groups. there's no outrage for the decade-long attack on our lives and families. check out the maps i posted above. i bet few DU'ers are even aware of how bad it's become.

the trivialization runs the other direction -- women's lives have been trivialized, and yet we come to the defense of every other group with the belief that a rising tide floats all boats.

well, it hasn't.

i'm against this law, and i believe it's about more than flowers and consumer freedom. but i have no illusion that women are going to get equal attention on any of the number of attacks on our lives in states run by GOP this year.

[Dragonfli]

85. That is not what I took away from it, also I find your response repulsive

People should be equally concerned about both expressions of hatred as well as laws designed to cause hardship to any group, there is much more to the war on homosexuality being waged by the talibornagains than flower purchases, it is simply not the only front their hatred is fought on.

There is no excusing either, and there is no contest here, or at least I don't view it as a contest; women, homosexuals, minorities and non-christians of all varieties are all being attacked by these people and none of it should be tolerated. I have had friends commit suicide due to their sexuality (or rather the way they were treated over it), it is not about buying flowers, you should educate yourself a bit more. The point is some appear to forget that the war against women is going on alongside the war against LGBT people. WE should neither forget nor forgive either while supporting any and all that are the focus of irrational hate.

JMO

[1StrongBlackMan]

101. +1...

Well stated.

[nashville_brook]

145. there's no "excusing" either -- but one is never mentioned, the other is a national outrage

[Dragonfli]

150. That is what the OP was pointing out, yet without diminishing the other

It is important to remember it is not a zero sum game. It needed to be pointed out, but we need to focus more on the attack on women without feeling the need to diminish the attack on LGBT, that was the problem I had with your reply.

It is not a bad thing that people are noticing and coming to their defense. It is a bad thing that the same is not happening regarding the virulent and constant attacks on women of late, that is what I took away from the OP as should you.

[Skidmore]

157. This remark is really

not helpful. Both the LGBTQ community and women are fighting to gain or keep rights that involve relationships and the right to their persons in many communities. As a straight woman, I will support the rights of all of us in any community. You are really off the mark.

[PatrickforO]

121. Well, it WILL increase the potential profit base in our nation's proud private prisons!

[cali]

62. Great and stark maps! thanks

[Fearless]

60. The difference is that there are federal laws to protect women

[cali]

63. Essentially meaningless under the onslaught of state laws and regulations

[Veilex]

95. Except that Federal laws and regulations generally supercede those at the state level.

[bettyellen]

117. Why don't you read up on the spate of women being prosecuted or jailed to

"Protect and defend" their pregnancies and get back to us about how the Feds are protecting our rights.

[niyad]

120. do try paying attention to the endless spate of restrictions on women's rights in each of the

state legislatures, 218 bills in one year alone??? if the feds have been doing anything to protect women's rights, please be good enough to cite said actions, from legitimate sources.

[cali]

137. Grrrrr. Man, that shit stinks.

[niyad]

153. it does, indeed.

[cali]

136. Fucking Fail of Great Magnitude. Try to keep up, dude.

They do not. There is a shitload of PROOF of that.

[CreekDog]

165. Well, actually you're wrong about that

Sex is a protected class under the Civil Rights Act, so an Indiana state law can't trump that.

However, sexual orientation IS NOT a protected class, so an Indiana State law can allow discrimination against them and there is no federal law to stop it.

You have it worked out in your mind, but you aren't correct, no matter how good your version of things sounds to you.

[BeeBee]

3. We can be upset at both. We don't have to choose one or the other. n/t

[cali]

8. People have chosen. Post a thread about a new discriminatory law against

a woman's constitutional right to choose and frequently there is NO RESPONSE at all. It sure doesn't make headlines. And there are NEVER calls to boycott or CEOs speaking out.

[question everything]

16. At least this one did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141053410

This Woman Says She Had A Miscarriage. Now She Could Face 70 Years In Prison.

Perhaps being on LBN and the horrific title did it.

[niyad]

21. that was one of the few. most posts on women's rights and the attacks against them

pretty much sink into oblivion.

[calimary]

32. That's why we have to start attaching that issue to the LGBT issue.

We're gonna have to coattail it. Because the effect is the same. The impact is the same. Those who would use their religion to trump the rights of the gay community would ABSOLUTELY use those same presumptions against women's access to health care and birth control.

We're gonna have to coattail it, cali. NOBODY WILL CONNECT THE DOTS UNLESS WE DO IT FIRST.

WE have to help them see. Because they're CLEARLY not making the connection on their own. But the fact remains - women's rights face the SAME vulnerability as gay rights do.

[nashville_brook]

23. we've totally chosen -- and women lost out.

[MineralMan]

4. All rights are under attack.

Sometimes, we talk about them one at a time. It's not a zero sum thing. Truly it isn't. The same people are opposed to all human rights. Fighting for any of them is a fight for all of them. But sometimes, one endangered right gets the focus. Other times, others are in focus. They're all similar, in that they represent the rights of people.

They're all important, it's true, and none are forgotten just because one in particular is being discussed.

[cali]

5. Sorry. Women's Reproductive rights are FAR more under attack

than any other rights of any other group. Far, far, far more. I can list not one discriminatory law, not dozens but over a hundred.


And abortion rights are very rarely in focus. You may not know that. I damn well do.

[MineralMan]

11. Why would you think I do not know that?

I've written frequently about the importance of those rights, too. I've worked for them, as well, just as I have worked for all civil rights issues. My point is that we can discuss them all as individual issues. It is not a zero sum thing.

[BainsBane]

25. This is what I was talking about

Far more? There is an epidemic of police murdering African Americans, LGBT Americans are subject to not only hate crimes but using the law to institutionalize discrimination, and women face violence and challenges to rights over their own bodies. It's all part of the same hatred and bigotry that seeks to turn the country backward, to keep power and privilege in the hands of a minority. Some of the best allies feminists have on this site are gay men and people of color. I stand with them, not in conflict with or in comparison to them.

[Liberalynn]

51. Don't forget the mentally ill

it's another group that has been added to the right wing's hate list. According to them if you say you have one you are just making it up to get a social security check each month and get mind altering pharmaceuticals and they compare psychiatrists to dealers. There has been little to no backlash against this and I'm sorry but it does feel like it's been forgotten, like we who suffer have been forgotten.

[appalachiablue]

127. +1

[BainsBane]

133. Yes, of course. Though my comments weren't meant to include all oppressed groups

because there are many more. It was instead a general observation of who on DU I have observed to be among the strongest defenders of feminism and women's rights.

I think there is a particularly challenge for the mentally ill because even acknowledging mental illness requires overcoming stigma. And the right certainly isn't alone in holding that prejudice.

[cali]

64. far more insofar as legistlatio goes.

[1StrongBlackMan]

107. I'll say this, again ...

I'm sorry ... I see this as an extension of, or slight deviation from, what is becoming an all too familiar theme ... first, a segment of DU responds to EVERY SINGLE race thead with "income equality is more important than 'their' (PoC's) rights" ... it went largely unchallenged for years (other than by PoC, and the rest of the board acted like we were just imaging it).

Now, at the start of this, that same segment responded with "income equality is more important than 'their' rights" (teh Gays)" .. that got a lot of push back, and rightfully so.

So ... Now, it's "WhatAboutTheWomen's!!" ... all from folks that a quick (very quick) DU archive search reveals little previous concern.

I'm sorry ... I ain't buying it!

[cali]

138. tough. and bullshit. was that clear enough?

[1StrongBlackMan]

143. Yes. your newly found concern for ...

"Oh da womens" is noted ... and so is its timing.

Is that clear?

[BainsBane]

7. +1

[1StrongBlackMan]

105. Again, you are far more graceful/accepting than I am ...

I'm sorry ... I see this as an extension of, or slight deviation from, what is becoming an all too familiar theme ... first, a segment of DU responds to EVERY SINGLE race thead with "income equality is more important than 'their' (PoC's) rights" ... it went largely unchallenged for years (other than by PoC, and the rest of the board acted like we were just imaging it).

Now, at the start of this, that same segment responded with "income equality is more important than 'their' rights" (teh Gays)" .. that got a lot of push back, and rightfully so.

So ... Now, it's "WhatAboutTheWomen's!!" ... all from folks that a quick (very quick) DU archive search reveals little previous concern.

I'm sorry ... I ain't buying it!

[BainsBane]

6. Yes, and not just reproductive rights

The right to be free from violence, rape and battery. I feel, however, that there is a bit of pitting us against LGBT rights in this post. I see our rights as connected: the goal is human equality and human rights for all.

[cali]

10. And you are fucking wrong. There is no pitting only anger that people don't

care about it.

[BainsBane]

17. Well, I certainly agree with that.

[kcr]

141. Yes and this makes me so angry

The claims that it is pitting and dividing is only meant to silence. I don't care that some aren't buying it. You're right, it's fucking wrong. It needs to be said.

[haikugal]

114. I see it that way too..

It isn't 't one vs another, it's the whole pattern...we, as a people, of all genders and persuasions are under direct attack and they are turning up the heat. We have to push back, and keep pushing. We have to stay educated and aware of all the issues around this and push back hard.

They have lost and they are fighting for supremacy...we can't let them win by dividing us. Sticking together, fighting this together is so important!

[LiberalEsto]

9. As long as half the world's population is dumped on by the other half

there is no justice.

[question everything]

12. More

We've heard the outcry about Indiana law and the emphasis was about refusing to serve gay couples.

But I remember, some years ago, when pharmacists refused to fill a contraception prescription on "religious beliefs." I don't remember how this ended.

[calimary]

37. Want proof that women's rights are at risk? Anybody notice pence mentioning Hobby Lobby?

He did exactly that. They ARE connected. Regardless how anybody wants to spin it. They are DIRECTLY and INTIMATELY connected.

[mopinko]

65. most of those laws are still in force.

religious freedom y'all.
in illinois it was quickly outlawed. not sure i remember any of the other states that did so.

[cilla4progress]

13. The right wing in this country

Has more in common with the Taliban and other extreme religious fundamentalists around the world than it does with freedom loving people, our founding fathers, or Jesus.

[appalachiablue]

79. +1

[Arugula Latte]

14. I was just thinking this exact same thing!

Where is the outrage about women's rights being eroded, day after day? We are going backwards and it's just accepted. Makes me furious.

[calimary]

40. Me, too.

Again - anyone needing further proof needs to go no further than pence's news conference today. He mentioned Hobby Lobby. That was ALL ABOUT denying women health care rights. WOMEN SPECIFICALLY. And he laced it together with this Indiana abomination. TODAY. At the podium. On TV. For the record.

[appalachiablue]

126. Descent into RW Hell & Fascism-

[Wounded Bear]

15. It's all really about human rights...

About as simple as I can put it. I try to work under the philosophy of: If anybody's human rights are being violated, mine are being violated, too.

After all, even if I'm not directly affected now, I just might be next in line.

[me b zola]

18. And I would add, a woman's right to keep her child even if she is impoverished

Women of little or no material resources are all too often viewed--and used--as incubators for wealthier women. This is a feminist issue. This is a human rights issue. This is a reproductive rights issue.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

19. I've been screaming about this everywhere....

This isn't shopping,this isn't marriage...

This is forced reproductive slavery, guilty until proven innocent, death by coathanger, 40-70 years incarceration if your miscarriage didn't fit stereotyped standards of CONservatism.

I'm so enraged that the right to SHOP is bringing forth the empathy and activism of the whole nation, while
THIS......

[niyad]

27. was that an illustration for an edition of "the handmaid's tale"? whatever, it is stunning, and I

am stealing it.

oh, and I LOVE your sig line!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

38. yeah. it's from a 2012 award winning illustrated novel.

In Italy.

Thanks niyad!

[calimary]

41. So have I, Blanche.

He brought up Hobby Lobby as a justification. That's all the proof you need. And I haven't seen a single reference to that in the post-news conference coverage.

NOBODY is connecting the dots. And it's CRITICAL that we do!!!!!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

48. Women's Suffering Doesn't Matter.

There are now a zillion posts on my FB feed (a lot of liberal news outlets) about the uproar against the bigotted businesses.....

But the ONLY ONES MENTIONING WHAT'S HAPPENING TO WOMEN are Planned Parenthood, RH Reality Check, NARAL......you know, the "Women's Pages". And the responses look sparse.

I'm screaming. Yeah.

[calimary]

70. I'm screaming, too. I'm BEYOND fed up.

Last edited Wed Apr 1, 2015, 11:53 AM - Edit history (3)

Women ARE getting left behind. It's as though the bad guys are running out of people they can look down upon, or try to oppress so THEY can feel bigger or stronger or greater or whatever-er. So we women are all the "safe" targets remaining.

AND THAT JUST SIMPLY HAS TO CHANGE, DAMMIT!!!!!

We're MORE than half the population. Why we don't flex those muscles more ferociously and relentlessly - I DO NOT KNOW.

What if we had a sex boycott?

What if SOME of our sisters in Congress and the state legislatures started sneaking language into various random bills that would...
1) unravel the Hyde Amendment.
2) make PERMANENT, somehow, a woman's right to choose.
3) start legislating government intrusion into one's urologist's office, regarding that sacred male real estate - the penis, and the scrotum. They sure don't mind groping around our ovaries and vaginas, do they!?! (Taste of their own medicine. See how they like it. Part 1)
4) whatever restrictions on women's health care that therefore also prevent access to mammograms and pap smears and other NON-abortion-related services - SAME THING should happen to prostate exams. (Taste of their own medicine. See how they like it. Part 2)
5) legislation tying cuts in federal/state/local spending on those programs supporting poor families and single-head-of-household (usually a woman) to cuts in the military. A trigger. ONE-FOR-ONE. You do one, then the other automatically gets a corresponding cut.
6) legislation barring ANY discrimination against a woman seeking insurance coverage for contraceptives. Don't CARE what the business is. Don't CARE what the "religion" of the boss or the owners are. If you can't find it in your heart to do that, you're in the wrong business.
7) legislation that automatically nullifies ANY additional future attempts to restrict a woman's right to end a pregnancy in the first or even second trimester if medical issues dictate. AUTOMATICALLY NULLIFIES. Kinda like the damned Hyde Amendment has rendered a lot of protections we'd seek on this issue dead-before-it-even-gets-off-the-ground. The damned Hyde Amendment makes a LOT of our efforts non-starters - by its very existence. WE need one of those "REVERSE Hyde Amendments"!!!!! Besides, the Hyde Amendment needs to be done away with.

And I'm sure there are more little sneak attacks. Hell, THEY do it! THE BAD GUYS do it all the time. Make 'em think twice EVERY TIME THEY INITIATE ANY - repeat - ANY BILL AT ALL. ANY bill at all that originates from the GOP side.

It'll at least foul up the works and slow them down. Kinda like stop signs in my neighborhood. They DON'T stop the speeders. But they DO force them to slow down - even just a wee bit. And just that two or three seconds extra means there's enough time for some dog walker or mom with baby stroller or nanny with toddlers or elderly couple out for a walk to get safely out of the road.

WHY CAN'T WE DO THIS???? Fighting the way we have been so far hasn't worked. Hasn't worked AT ALL. They should see us women coming in the hallways of the statehouses and Congress - and start grabbing for the Maalox bottle. Let 'em see how it feels when EVERYWHERE they turn and EVERYTHING they try to do against us is met with shit, and complications, and problems, and obfuscation, and delays, and foot-dragging, and fine print, and NO FREE GLIDE toward law. We need to fuck up their works. BIGTIME.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

72. i gotta run...must get back to you later.

Been off work with injury, just starting back.
Soooooo hard...worst part is having to get dressed!

[haikugal]

115. I like how you think!

We need to make more noise about this!

[nashville_brook]

22. hell to the yeah

[niyad]

24. exactly.

I am not seeing calls for boycotting the states that are destroying, incremental piece of legislation by incremental piece, women's autonomy. Does anybody here remember the boycotts of the anti-ERA states? I do.

[appalachiablue]

128. The Indiana mess made me wonder about that too, no boycotts for anti-women legislation?

[niyad]

152. I know a lot of us engage in our own private boycotts, but no, have not seen calls

for mass boycotts.

[appalachiablue]

166. More awareness & organized resistance against this is needed especially now while the momentum

of human rights & LGBT rights above bigotry and legal discrimination is huge.

[niyad]

169. you are correct.

[BlueJazz]

30. I'm proud to say, I put my money where my mouth is. As I said in another post...

...how many great discoveries have we lost because, as a country, we stop some of the finest intelligent people/women from making the world a better place for all of us.? Sigh...

[nashville_brook]

34. instead, let's attack Patrica Arquette...b/c that's effective.

[niyad]

45. you are so right about how much we have lost with the stupid, hate-filled, fear-based

treatment of women.

[herding cats]

35. I think most do realize it, and speak out about it here.

The arguments used are different, but the people behind taking away women's right to choose are mostly the same players as those who support bigotry toward the LGBT population.

No legislation should ever be based on any groups religious ideology and/or bigotry. Yet that's the very thing we're seeing happen across this nation.

In the case of this legislation in Indiana, they just gave an entire state the right to legally discriminate against anyone not classified as a protected class in their state. Which happens to be the LGBT population. This is a civil rights violation which demands our outrage and attention. This doesn't mean any other group is less worthy, or any less attacked for that matter. Actually, this law could theoretically be used against women's reproductive rights as well.

It's not us against each other, it's us against them. We're all in this together.

[calimary]

42. Maybe here, yes. But it has to go out MUCH farther. And so far that's not what's happening.

[herding cats]

50. I agree

A lot of this is due to how they frame the argument. Fetus vs. Baby and the fetal pain arguments. They have been distorting the facts and chipping away at our right to choose my entire life. We need to bring it back to what it legally is, a woman's right under the fourteenth amendment. When we let them control the language we keep losing ground. Yet even here I've seen people become distracted and try and argue their points. That's not what we should be doing.

I hope I don't sound curt, that's not my intention. I just find it frustrating that they keep winning by making it about things that don't legally apply.

[PeaceNikki]

39. Amen and THANK YOU!

[enough]

43. Do you think the disparity in public outrage is because abortion is

seen as a WOMEN'S issue? Whereas LGBT rights is seen as a general human rights issue?

The propaganda machine has been working for decades to influence the abortion debate by making it solely a women's issue, pitting "the woman" against the "unborn child."

They have completely removed the human rights element from the argument and moved the issue into a "special-interest" paradigm. That is, abortion rights is seen as something WOMEN want, not something that applies to human beings in general.

[betterdemsonly]

61. Consider the possiblity that this issue is relevant because half of

gay people are men and therefore have many positions in business and government.

[enough]

112. Makes sense. (nt)

[Prism]

44. Wasn't the Indiana law passed to target women?

I'm still trying to understand the genesis of the law, but it seems like it was born out of the Hobby Lobby ruling. The point was to take advantage of that to allow businesses to make their contraception exceptions for the ACA.

I think it's awesome so many are coming out for my community, but it's a bit strange that the anti-woman sentiment underlying these religious "freedoms" has been eclipsed by the LGBT focus.

We're all in this together, and homophobia and misogyny and directly linked, but I'd like to see more people highlighting that this law is going after more than me and my brothers and sisters. It's going after our mothers, daughters, sisters, and friends as well.

[one_voice]

47. Justice Ginsburg...

warned the ruling was trouble; this one line says is all; imo. From her dissent;

"The court, I fear, has ventured into a minefield.

http://www.thewire.com/politics/2014/06/read-justice-ginsburgs-passionate-35-page-dissent-in-the-hobby-lobby-decision/373703/

[onecaliberal]

49. There are more of us collectively, than old white men...

(LGBT's, black people, women, etc..)

It's always puzzling to me that we don't collectively kick their sorry asses to the curb. When will we realize the power in our collective?

[Andy823]

52. I agree with you Cali

They are all important, and need to be addressed. As long as republicans are in charge of state governments, they will continue to push their agenda, which we all know has nothing to help fight against such insane laws they are trying to pass now. We have to take back not only the U.S. congress, keep the WH, but also take back state governments. Republicans have been going after state control for years now, and when democrats don't take the time to get out and vote, well they win. 2016 will be a very important election and we have to make sure to get the voters out so we can remove all the republicans we can in states and at the national level.

One thing I am sure of is that no republican is going to make things better so they need to go! We can't let them continue to take over this country.

[gollygee]

53. They are every bit as important

and IMO we will be the mosts effective for all marginalized groups if we stand together against the taking away of any and all of our rights.

[Dont call me Shirley]

55. Misogyny is the original sin of bigotry, from where all bigotry begins.

When women are treated equally the rest of bigotry branches will fall with the bigot tree.

[whathehell]

76. Yes it is..

but that fact is rarely recognized.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

57. Calling Dems "baby killers" doesn't work anymore.

[Fearless]

58. It's not an either / or

Never has been.

[Arugula Latte]

86. It's not either/or. We need progress in both areas. The question is:

Why are gay rights moving forward but women's rights are being eroded?

[Fearless]

91. Because women's rigthts has been further than LGBT rights since the beginning of the movements

Second because being a woman is an outward characteristic similar to being Black, whereas being LGBT is inward and not easily determinable.

[davidn3600]

98. 45% of women voted for Mitt Romney

That's why.

You are trying to run an equal rights campaign for social change when half your population is supporting the status quo. There's your speed bump right there. If all women were united, the GOP wouldnt even exist today.

When a woman stands up and takes a firm stand on something against the patriarchy, there is always another woman on Fox news tearing her down.

The LGBTs are mostly united in their cause.

[bvf]

148. Sadly, that's what you get with a patriarchal

society where woo holds sway.

Think, "Love, honor, and obey."

[Paper Roses]

59. Agree 100%. Glad you posted this. n/t

[mopinko]

67. you are dead right cali.

and it is in the hundreds. the only person i know of paying much attention to this is rachel maddow. iirc, she counted over 600 of them from 2010-2014.

if everyone isnt free, no one is free.
and the right to one's own bodily integrity should be above the right of public accommodation. sorry to any who think this is "pitting against our allies"
it is a wake up call for our allies.

[HockeyMom]

68. Women alone being denied tables in restaurants

or at the very least being given dirty looks and poor service. Maybe they thought we were hookers "on the make"? Finish a day's work, don't want to bother cooking, and just go out to eat? You need a DATE to eat out??????

I am not talking about 1800's but 1960's in Manhattan. Yes, I experience that myself.

[appalachiablue]

164. This absolutely exists in Manhattan and smaller places. I've experienced it at restaurants

and hotels in Santa Fe, Paris and Atlantic beach areas from traveling in the 2000s. It's rude and definitely targeting of single women. Wouldn't happen to a man as a friend said. It's taken place during the daytime on the part of both men and women staff. Not a hooker on the prowl as must have been the thinking of one suspicious attendant at a little hotel on the Left Bank I stopped by to see because we stayed there once. The guy in the lobby looked upset, said something in Italian I think, so I just left. I guess we're back to the 1800s when women didn't go out without a (male) escort. There's no doubt that other groups experience this, LGBT, disabled, foreign etc. It's really messed up-

[Enthusiast]

73. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

[frazzled]

74. Why is this so unspoken?

Why does nobody care, or care for more than a second?

I've tried to post about this several times in threads over the past few days, and except for 2 or 3 people, nobody seems either to get it or to give a hoot.

I'll tell you who is starting to get it. People like my nephew and his husband, who have a daughter. Feminism is an issue for everyone, not least gay men and women. Every son, every daughter, every sister, every brother, ought to care about this.

Many states got away with discrimination by means of "conscience clauses" that allowed pharmacists to opt out of filling contraceptive prescriptions on the basis of their religious beliefs. And then there was Hobby Lobby, where the Supreme Court legitimized discrimination against women by private entities, if health insurance that covers contraceptives "offended" their religious beliefs. So now we're surprised that states are opening the door for discrimination against LGBT people? Hell, we let them discriminate against 50% of the population, and little stink was raised. We're now reaping the results of our apathy.

First they came for women ...

[Delphinus]

167. We must

care and work to stop this.

[Bluenorthwest]

75. I've fought for choice all my life, and I've never heard any LGBT person claim those rights are

less important. I have seen huge amounts of support from LGBT people to the Pro Choice movement. Half of us are women, all of us burdened by the misogynistic nature of society.

I was thinking the other day, DU for the most part does Primary cycle politics all wrong. They make it about persons instead of issues. It's the perfect time to be using as platform to promote discussion about specific issues.
It is nice to see you post about an issue, your focus for some time has been laser like on personality politics. A waste of time.

[cali]

77. This isn't an attack of the LGBT community

By the way, I post about issues all the time. No one on DU, for instance has more ops about drones or the TPP.

[1StrongBlackMan]

108. I'll post ita 3rd time...

I'm sorry ... I see this as an extension of, or slight deviation from, what is becoming an all too familiar theme ... first, a segment of DU responds to EVERY SINGLE race thead with "income equality is more important than 'their' (PoC's) rights" ... it went largely unchallenged for years (other than by PoC, and the rest of the board acted like we were just imaging it).

Now, at the start of this, that same segment responded with "income equality is more important than 'their' rights" (teh Gays)" .. that got a lot of push back, and rightfully so.

So ... Now, it's "WhatAboutTheWomen's!!" ... all from folks that a quick (very quick) DU archive search reveals little previous concern.

I'm sorry ... I ain't buying it!

[ananda]

78. Thank you!

I'm totally gut-wrenched and rankled by the idea that the assault on women's right has never gotten this kind of response.

The anti-choice bills and the war on women is just as vicious as that on gays.

We are all in this together. All lives matter!

[JEB]

82. And I suspect these assaults

are being perpetrated by the same people. A light needs to be shown on the cockroaches that are writing and pushing these hideous laws aimed at Women, gays or POC as well as assaults on voting rights and unions. All perpetrated by the same bunch of bigots.

[Dragonfli]

80. The talibornigan brigade's expressions of hate are multifaceted, Their Sharia laws popular of late

Appear designed to degrade the happiness and freedoms of any and all classes of people not a part of their little ISIS-lite cult.
You are absolutely correct, their victims are numerous and women are at the top of their hate lists right alongside those whose sexuality they decide among themselves are not cool with their imaginary friend on high.

I used to not care whether people wished to believe in myths and such, thinking such fairy tales harmless, but lately I have to admit that I no longer feel neutral about peoples imaginings as they are using their fairy tales to cause harm to others on a regular basis of late.

I never looked twice at a person before simply because they sport little fishes on their cars and talk to imaginary friends over their food, finding it harmless and a bit amusing at worst. These days however, I think perhaps the fish and the cross should be rated up there with swastikas as a sign of people that are hateful, dangerous and to be avoided if not shunned out of the community altogether.

Sorry Christians, I know many of you are boiling with hate right now over my words and that hatred is directed at me, but that is really on you, and the fact tat you are feeling hatred is a sign that your imaginings are indeed dangerous and have no place in a safe society that anyone would want to live in.

[TDale313]

81. So, as a Bi woman...

I'm just curious...How much time am I allowed to be glad some are standing up against LGTB bigotry before being pissed that the same attention isn't being given to women's rights? Also, I have to say dismissing the law as being "just about shopping" is completely wrongheaded. You better believe that those supporting this religious freedom law will use it to impose their religious beliefs on women as well as the lgtb community. I think attacking those who find this law disturbing is counterproductive to say the least. Yes, women's rights are as important as lgtb rights. But imo the op is divisive. This is not an either/or thing. Caring about one doesn't mean I don't care about the other.

[Veilex]

97. "imo the op is divisive. This is not an either/or thing." - Agreed

[davidn3600]

83. Women have Roe v Wade

And although it is true the right wing is trying to weaken Roe, LGBT don't have any such strong SCOTUS decisions or laws protecting them from outright discrimination from religious nuts.

[cali]

84. sorry, you are really, really uninformed. Roe v Wade has been rendered

largely moot for millions and millions of women. Do you even know what TRAP is?

It frightens me to see such rank ignorance here.

[JTFrog]

100. I don't know how much of it is ignorance,

and how much of it is just MRA bullshit.

[Arugula Latte]

88. Millions of women in this country don't have access to abortion ...

because so many clinics have been shut down. And that's just for starters. Women's rights are NOT protected. Not at all.

[cali]

89. Pretty shocking to see that kind of uninformed stuff here.

[Arugula Latte]

90. Indeed.

And lack of access to abortion is just the tip of the iceberg.

[MerryBlooms]

104. It's not uninformed and it's not ignorance, it's an intentional mra attack/talking point.

How that one has made it this long on a 'progressive' board is shameful.

[seabeyond]

106. +1. nt

[bettyellen]

118. Exactly right. Embarrassed to see this hateful and knowingly ignorant nonsense in GD.

[BainsBane]

132. I couldn't agree more

[JTFrog]

163. + infinity. n/t

[TBF]

94. I've long thought that LGBTQ folks need to be considered a "protected class" -

Women should as well considering that we STILL don't have an equal rights amendment. White, male, land-owning heterosexuals need to realize there are more people than just them on this planet - and that the rest of us were not born to serve them.

[TBF]

92. Civil rights are important period -

it is amazing how people will oppress each other and then rationalize it using religion. We need to stick up for each other. They are all important.

[Veilex]

93. "Women's Reproductive Rights are every bit as important as LGBT rights or fighting racism." - True.

They are not, however, MORE important than LGBT rights or fighting racism.
More pointedly, Women's Reproductive Rights should not be used as a distraction from LGBTQ rights... nor should the two substantive issues be compared in a competitive way... particularly in a manner that detracts from needed efforts being applied toward a non-Women's Reproductive Rights issue (specifically referencing LGBTQ rights).

[1StrongBlackMan]

110. Posted a 4th time ...

I'm sorry ... I see this as an extension of, or slight deviation from, what is becoming an all too familiar theme ... first, a segment of DU responds to EVERY SINGLE race thead with "income equality is more important than 'their' (PoC's) rights" ... it went largely unchallenged for years (other than by PoC, and the rest of the board acted like we were just imaging it).

Now, at the start of this, that same segment responded with "income equality is more important than 'their' rights" (teh Gays)" .. that got a lot of push back, and rightfully so.

So ... Now, it's "WhatAboutTheWomen's!!" ... all from folks that a quick (very quick) DU archive search reveals little previous concern.

I'm sorry ... I ain't buying it!

[Veilex]

123. People are picking hills to die on, rather than playing whack-a-mole...

There's no shortage of serious social issues that need addressing. I don't understand those who've chosen to belittle other issues in the name of raising their own flag a little higher... rather than trying to smack down each issue as it arises.

https://www.facebook.com/egalitarianismhome

[1StrongBlackMan]

125. it's all about the "Meism" that some enjoy ...

That, and, an attempt to distract. Take your pick.

[cali]

139. posted for the 2nd time. tough and bullshit.

[1StrongBlackMan]

144. See post #143 ...

Your game is peeped.

[Behind the Aegis]

124. +1

Very well said.

[cali]

140. no one said they were. duh. But hundreds of laws restricting a woman's right to choose

are passed every fucking year. Got that? Hundreds. And threads about this normally sink like stones here and you sure don't see politicians or corporations speaking out on it.

What part of "just as important" don't some of you.... get?

[Veilex]

158. "no one said they were. duh." - Actually, you did. By posting this distraction away from...

an LGBTQ issue that needs attention, that is precisely what you've done. Perhaps you didn't intend it that way, but it is the result all the same. You're even still doing it. You're comparing reproductive issues with LGBTQ issues by implying, that LGBTQ issues aren't as important because there are more laws passed each year against reproductive rights.

I get the "just as important" part. I don't think you do.

[cali]

160. bullshit. horse shit. dog shit. that's just false.

YOU clearly don't get a thing about it. Your other utterly reprehensible post in this thread- noted by many, make that sadly and abundantly clear.

I get it. You? Not at all

[Veilex]

162. "that's just false." - The notion that this thread is anything but a distraction from LGBTQ issues.

Specifically because you invoke them by comparison.

No... I'm afraid you really don't get it.
And I fear you never will.

Cheers

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

96. Going to jail for a miscarrage or abortion is even worse that not being served at a store or restaur

[raven mad]

99. EVERY law that is discriminatory is aimed firstly at women. Then at sexual choices.

Then at anyone who has no money to fight them.

[1StrongBlackMan]

109. Uhmm, You forgot a group. n/t

[raven mad]

111. No, I didn't.

Black women were the first to be "outlawed". And their sons and daughters.

I grew up with it. Hated it then, hate it now.

[1StrongBlackMan]

119. Okay. n/t

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

102. Please use our site on FB to organize and fight the hate

https://www.facebook.com/equalityforallactivism?ref=tn_tnmn

Designed to help organize people to protest injustice anywhere for anyone.

[ecstatic]

116. So true. It's disappointing that barely a peep is said about it

Clearly many states are out of control. When a logical person brings up the fact that we can't afford for the Supreme Court to move further right, s/he is met with immaturity. A lot is at stake: reproductive rights, voting rights, the list goes on and on. I'm very disappointed by all the petty bickering around here when so much is at stake. Makes me feel like this place is overrun with trolls.

[KingCharlemagne]

122. I protest regularly with WORD (for "Women Organized to

Resist and Defend&quot out here in Los Angeles. WORD takes a pretty hard line that abortion and contraception should be free on demand to any woman seeking them. I've silently resolved to myself if I ever get back on my feet financially to throw surplus $$$ in the direction of NARAL, Planned Parenthood and WORD. As the recipient of white male privilege and being on the ropes myself, I can barely contemplate what it must be like for poor women facing an unplanned pregnancy or a spouse or partner determined to restrict their reproductive freedom(s).

Link to the WORD website:

http://www.defendwomensrights.org/

[Spitfire of ATJ]

129. The Republicans are only doing this to call the Dems murdering baby killers.....

Because it worked 30 years ago.

[brett_jv]

130. I don't see why we should allow ourselves to be pitted against one another on these issues ...

When we fundamentally all agree 100% in the SAME THING: Full Reproductive Rights for ALL women, and Full Societal Rights for all LGBT folks.

Why should we even think about 'fighting' one another in any way, shape, or form about EITHER subject ... here on DU ... when we ALL agree?

I don't get it. Let's not be 'divided' ... else we be 'conquered'.

[cali]

135. this has shit all to do with pitting people aganist one another

I was trying to impress on people that this is an issue as vital. And it worked- at least to some degree.

this is the longest thread I've ever seen on abortion on DU.

[hughee99]

147. And this thread isn't even really about abortion.

NT

[Warren DeMontague]

134. K&R

[Pooka Fey]

142. Yes!

K&R

[prayin4rain]

149. Agreed. n/t

[veaux]

151. agree

agree!

[historylovr]

154. Kick.

This isn't about pitting one oppressed group against another. This is about the fact that whenever women's reproductive health choices are being whittled away or denied altogether, there is no public outcry. There is no call for boycotts. It's just business as usual.

And here on DU? Pharmacist refuses to dispense birth control pills? Go to another pharmacy. Never mind that that might be the only one around. Hobby Lobby decision? You don't have to work there. It's only four types of birth control. Roe v. Wade being effectively torn down in state after state? Snooze.

So, yes, this needs to be said. Our rights are important too. We are, supposedly, people, after all.

[valerief]

156. Bingo!!!

[Orsino]

159. Yes. An assault on one person's rights is an assault on us all.

That we keep having to say "Me, too!" shows we need to learn this.