This is what theocracy looks like

[caraher]

Below is the picture of the closed-door signing ceremony Governor Pence's office released:



What kind of image is this? Does this suggest he is the governor of all the people of Indiana, or does he represent a push for something approaching theocracy? The one campaign ad I saw from his run for governor consisted of an endless stream of RW Christian dogwhistle phrases, (humble?)bragging about his "servant's heart" and such. I want to puke.

Here's who was invited:

Pence signed the bill during a private ceremony in his Statehouse office just before 10 a.m. Thursday. He was joined by supportive lawmakers, Franciscan monks and nuns, orthodox Jews, and some of the state's most powerful lobbyists on conservative social issues.

The event was closed to the public and the press.

This is the same guy who wanted to create his own taxpayer-funded propaganda ministry (an idea he walked back in a hurry when news of this leaked) and who has worked tirelessly to undermine the office of the state's duly-elected top education official (who received more votes than anyone else currently holding statewide office). Pence is an enemy of American democracy.

[Adsos Letter]

1. Looks like it to me. n/t

[salib]

2. Interesting that they are trying to group "religions" together

Yet, as in Highlander, there can only be one in the end that rules.

Do these tools understand this?

[world wide wally]

3. So God says something like "Thou shalt be prejudiced and discriminate against …. whoever"?

[Jon82]

22. That is what they believe

Even though I am pretty sure I read something in the Bible that is an example of the opposite of what this law represents. They are all hypocrites.

The first thing to understand in this discussion is that there is only one race—the human race. Caucasians, Africans, Asians, Indians, Arabs, and Jews are not different races. Rather, they are different ethnicities of the human race. All human beings have the same physical characteristics (with minor variations, of course). More importantly, all human beings are equally created in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27). God loved the world so much that He sent Jesus to lay down His life for us (John 3:16). The “world” obviously includes all ethnic groups.

God does not show partiality or favoritism (Deuteronomy 10:17; Acts 10:34; Romans 2:11; Ephesians 6 ), and neither should we. James 2:4 describes those who discriminate as “judges with evil thoughts.” Instead, we are to love our neighbors as ourselves (James 2:8). In the Old Testament, God divided humanity into two “racial” groups: Jews and Gentiles. God’s intent was for the Jews to be a kingdom of priests, ministering to the Gentile nations. Instead, for the most part, the Jews became proud of their status and despised the Gentiles. Jesus Christ put an end to this, destroying the dividing wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:14). All forms of racism, prejudice, and discrimination are affronts to the work of Christ on the cross.

Jesus commands us to love one another as He loves us (John 13:34). If God is impartial and loves us with impartiality, then we need to love others with that same high standard. Jesus teaches in Matthew 25 that whatever we do to the least of His brothers, we do to Him. If we treat a person with contempt, we are mistreating a person created in God’s image; we are hurting somebody whom God loves and for whom Jesus died.

Racism, in varying forms and to various degrees, has been a plague on humanity for thousands of years. Brothers and sisters of all ethnicities, this should not be. Victims of racism, prejudice, and discrimination need to forgive. Ephesians 4:32 declares, “Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.” Racists may not deserve your forgiveness, but we deserved God’s forgiveness far less. Those who practice racism, prejudice, and discrimination need to repent. “Present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God” (Romans 6:13). May Galatians 3:28 be completely realized, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/racism-Bible.html#ixzz3VjCXnjeC

[madamesilverspurs]

4. Indeed.

[jtuck004]

63. People with white hoods being bigoted and intolerant. What's new? n/t

[Fred Sanders]

5. American Mullah Signs Maria Law - in private with clerics.

Every one of this folks should be ashamed at not only the law, which I am sure none of the actually have read, but how offensive it is to both the constitution and to clarity of language.

[workinclasszero]

8. Exactly

The same right wing loons screaming about sharia law coming to America....force through their own sharia laws!

Damn hypocrites!

[calimary]

34. Indeed. Ayatolla Pence.

Christianist Sharia Law.

I look at those religious figures, especially the Jesus-y ones. Didn't they study the same Scripture I studied in Catholic school? Didn't they study the words attributed to Our Lord? Only two Commandments - 1) "Love God." 2) "Love thy neighbor as thyself." Does this new law conform to that Holy Word - in ANY way? Did Jesus die on the cross just for straight people? I happen to believe that, just statistically, one of the 12 apostles was probably gay. Just by the numbers. Sheesh - there were other reviled people among the 12 apostles. Including at least one tax collector - which as I was taught, was an example of a really despised and resented member of that community back in that day. He told a parable about "The Good Samaritan." Samaritans were hated and looked down upon, as I was taught, yet Christ held a Samaritan up as the good guy in one of His best-known parables. He liked the down-trodden. He cited a poor widow hiding in shame in the shadows at the side of the Temple, embarrassed that she had only a couple of pennies to drop in the collection plate, while the bombastic show-off rich guy paraded down the center aisle to make sure EVERYBODY could see the huge bag of money he was handing in - I believe it was the widow's donation that Jesus said was far more pleasing to the Eye of God. He hung out with the poor and the outcast, the riffraff, the lepers - whom EVERYBODY avoided.

I DO NOT profess to know or understand the Mind of God, or the fullness of the Word of Jesus. However, I do find myself wondering if perhaps He might be hated by all these individuals in the photo if He were in our midst today.

[Fred Sanders]

35. Jesus would not hate the tea folks, he would pity them and say " not in My name", for starters.

[calimary]

43. Undoubtedly.

And He'd forgive them, too, another group of folks who "know not what they do." We're all supposed to follow that example, those of us who've been brought up in the Catholic/general Christian system. THIS particular example is - well - particularly difficult.

[hifiguy]

81. The irony is that, assuming Jesus existed and did in fact return

these are the same people that would have him re-crucified within a week.

[Locrian]

64. we need to start calling it a "Christain Caliphate" - nt

[SwankyXomb]

68. There's your hashtag

Time to get trending, #AyatollahPence

[xfundy]

6. What lovely burqas.

[progressoid]

70. Heh heh heh,

[nakocal]

7. And not a single Christian or even a kind person in the group.

And not a single Christian or even a kind person in the group.

[erronis]

13. But, they're wearing cloths! Doesn't that make them "special"?

I can't help but believe that most of them had absolutely no idea what they were doing there. Perhaps that goes along with believing in authority. Sad.

[awoke_in_2003]

14. Last time I checked...

Franciscan monks and nuns are Christian- or are we having a "No True Scotman" argument?

[PoliticAverse]

27. Franciscans are Christians (most consider themselves Catholic). n/t

[nakocal]

73. If they support hating other people, how can they be Christian

If they support hating other people, how can they be Christian. And laws that discriminate are about hate.

[phil89]

77. Well the whole religion is based on a bloody

human sacrifice, it's not as if it's a moral belief system to begin with.

[calimary]

38. Welcome to DU, nakocal!

Glad you're here! Sure looks that way, doesn't it? I don't want to be led around by ANYBODY's religion or religious beliefs (not even mine!) when it comes to public policy and the common good. OR when it comes to government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Particularly in this SECULAR society. Religion has nothing to do with it. Religion is beside the point.

I don't care what the bad guys say. This country wasn't founded as a specifically Christian nation. I do get some pleasure out of reminding people that Keith Ellison, the Democratic rep from Minnesota who's the first Muslim elected to Congress was sworn in, in January 2007 with his hand on Thomas Jefferson's copy of the Koran. He asked for permission to borrow it from the Library of Congress and they hand-carried it over to him for his ceremony.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/05/AR2007010500512.html

Interesting Congressional trivia: Debbie Wasserman Schultz, btw, told him her first swearing-in was done using a copy of the Tanakh (Jewish scripture).

SHEESH. We've got a LOT more going on in this country than just the extremist Protestant worldview. And our representation should rightfully reflect that, seems to me. I just realized you could direct to each of those pictured with mike pence and say - "Who died and made YOU God?" !!!!

Besides, even for those of us who believe directly in Jesus, even HE pointed out the need for separation of church and state. Anyone notice He was NOT quoted as saying "render therefore to Caesar and to God both the same together." Or "...for both are as one." He differentiated. If one follows That Guy, one would presumably want to differentiate the same way too.

[Lars39]

47. If they profess to be christian then they are...

They are christians who are sinning.

[nakocal]

72. So if Danny Devito confesses that he is an NBA all-star, then he is

So if Danny Devito confesses that he is an NBA all-star, then he is. Sorry, your actions define who you are, not your words.

[Lars39]

75. Just stating how christianity works.

[phil89]

78. You can confirm, objectively

if Danny Devito is in the NBA. There's no objective test for christianity. Not to mention there are thousands of denominations each thinking their version is correct.

[riderinthestorm]

9. 12 folks in obviously religious garb, 6 in suits (may be pastors)

but yeah, obviously, scarily, heavily weighted on the theological side...

[HockeyMom]

10. please, no nuns

12 years of them was enough for me. No more, no more, EVER.

[calimary]

39. No kidding!

Pre-kinder through 12th. I guess that'd actually make it 14 years for me. YOIKS!!!!

Either way, that's a lot of nun.

[Oilwellian]

61. LOL...I hear ya

Five years in a small, deep south TX town. I'm nearly sixty now and still consider myself a recovering Catholic.

[HockeyMom]

71. Yep. 66 myself

Fortunately, my daughters learned my lesson well.

[Fumesucker]

11. We all hate theocracy on DU

That's why the Atheists & Agnostics group has to be a protected one and occasionally block people from posting there.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/123037829

[Spitfire of ATJ]

12. "Go on in boys, you're expected."

"WHAT???"

[awoke_in_2003]

15. Nobody expects them...

you should know that

[hootinholler]

57. Biring in the COMFY CHAIR!

Heretic!

[awoke_in_2003]

16. Rec'ing for exposure...

I don't like the looks of that picture one little bit. Truly, I wish I could afford to emigrate to a Scandinavian country.

[mountain grammy]

17. Mmmmm, no small business owners

wasn't this bill for small business owners. No? oh my mistake. It was for bigoted religious leaders.

[BrotherIvan]

65. ^^This

This picture should strike fear in the hearts of all American citizens.

[mrmpa]

18. I wonder what Pope Francis has to say........

when he sees all the Catholics surrounding the governor.

[bloomington-lib]

25. I hope someone asks him

[BrotherIvan]

66. He thinks it's great

Why not? That's what he preaches.

[GoCubsGo]

67. Not just Pope Francis...

Franciscan nuns and priests? I strongly suspect that St. Francis of Assisi, their order's namesake, would not approve, let alone the Pope. He's probably spinning in his grave right now.

[obxhead]

19. Fuck religion.

Believe all you want. It is your right.

You DO NOT have the right to impose your religion on me.

[On the Road]

20. You Want to Puke

because the governor took a PR photo with nuns and monks who are his constituents? OK then.

[caraher]

21. That was in reference to the campaign ad

The ad was really sickening. Though his behavior in office confirmed the queasiness for the other reasons outlined. The picture alone, no.

[Zorra]

23. "Democrats in the General Assembly tried several times to add language

to the measure that would have provided explicit protections from discrimination based on sexual orientation, but those efforts were rebuffed."

And republican christofascists continue to lie with their whiny, sniveling, "but, but, it's not about discrimination at all! Not at all! You misunderstand! You are all stupid meanies!

"Democrats in the General Assembly tried several times to add language to the measure that would have provided explicit protections from discrimination based on sexual orientation, but those efforts were rebuffed."

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2015/03/25/gov-mike-pence-sign-religious-freedom-bill-thursday/70448858/

[caraher]

24. Yup

That's huge - they could have done this, but specifically chose not to, which speaks volumes

[Fred Sanders]

36. That fact unknown to the media says it all...they explicitly excluded certain folks from protection

of the federal Constitution that still trumps this poorly crafted tripe, an abomination in legal terms as well - this law is without actual legal authority.

My other consolation is that there is still the Judicial branch and the federal Executive branch to fend off the barbarians at the gate of democracy....but there is a vastly improved economy - there's the rub for the Christofascists, those darn business news headlines can not be easily manipulated.

[Dawson Leery]

26. All in the picture

are a greater threat than ISIS.

Those Nuns are less than horse S**t. "Christianity" says to accept all and let God be the judge.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. Is this jacknodule on the short list for the GOP veep slot?

Wouldnt surprise me if he was.

[AwakeAtLast]

60. That has been his goal for his entire Governorship

Alienate Unions? Check.
Move to privatize education? Check.
Make Indiana right-to-work? Check.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

I have to live with him as my Governor.

[marked50]

29. Difference?

What is the difference between what these cretins are doing and what ISIS is doing? Not beheading people maybe but eventually that is what would happen because you can't really eliminate "that what you do not like"-give it time and that is what they would do.

It would be a wonderful realization when those who proclaim any connection to God really understand that God is not judgmental, like they may be- the true connection to what is believed to be the "original sin". Oh but do we have a long way to evolve.....

[calimary]

41. Welcome to DU, marked50!

Great to have you with us! The problem here, as you've just stated, is that if THIS is allowed to stand, this opens the floodgates. What's to stop another state, or another four states, from trying to pull this shit? Look what happened immediately after the Supreme Court gutted voting rights? You had a cascade of states that stepped on the gas on bills that were very likely already warming up in the bullpen in anticipation of a favorable ruling. That's thanks to outfits like ALEC, preemptory strategists who help GOP legislators plop finished bills into active mode in their state capitols to accomplish things like voter restrictions, stand-your-ground, climate change denial, restricting the minimum wage, blocking or otherwise thwarting affordable health care coverage, religious interference in public policy, vaginal probes, "sanctity of marriage" stuff, charter and private schools instead of ensuring a robust public education system, and other anti-social, ill-conceived, and wrongheaded shit that the far so-called "right" wants.

Wrong-way social engineering is what it looks like. Anti-social engineering. They're trying to FORCE the CONservative view on us all. They're trying to push the pendulum farther and farther to the "right" and then hold it in place there. And artificially prevent the natural order of things - where, in nature, in reality, the pendulum inevitably swings back the other way. That side always tends to riff on the same theme - asserting repeatedly that this is a "center-right" country. They're wrong! It ISN'T! And it's growing steadily less so with the changing demographics. ESPECIALLY with the marriage equality issue, and the very noticeable and widespread forward momentum of gay rights in America. Things have REALLY evolved there, thank goodness. And yet the other side remains hellbent on resistance, and applying some big cosmic "brakes" against the ongoing evolution of human society through time, a continuum if you will. They resist change. They can't fight it either, and I suppose that makes them hate it and want to stop it all the more.

[marked50]

74. Hi Calimary

Thanks for the reply. I have actually been around DU for a long time-Just am not a prolific poster. DU is my last venue for internet every morning. A great bunch of people and information. Can't beat it.

[d_legendary1]

30. So this cat wants to bring the inquisition into gubbermint

|

[calimary]

42. Just give it time...

And if it isn't him, it'll be somebody else.

[d_legendary1]

83. Well if the do bring it back then I also demand

that the bring back that chair with the hole in the center where your nuts rest, just like in the Borgias. You know, the one where only males are supposed to sit and his assistance (male of course) comp a feel to make sure that the person in charge is a male. If they are gonna bring back the stone age they may as well bring back stone age traditions as well.

[DrBulldog]

31. The harsh reality is staring us in the face:

Indiana is no longer an American state.

[BillZBubb]

33. The harsh reality is that Indiana is an all too American state.

From Texas to Wisconsin, from Idaho to South Carolina, this country is loaded with bigots, idiots, and wackos.

[Initech]

32. Theocracy =/= freedom.

The republicans can spout all the jingo and crap that they want, but they don't mean it. They say in one breath how America is the land of the free, home of the brave, and in the next they enact bullshit bills like this, which are the exact opposite of freedom. Either they pick a side and stick with it, or they don't. And they can't tell us they want to live in a free country when in fact, they secretly want to live under a totalitarian religious fundamentalist society. The hypocrisy reeks.

[tjl148]

37. Some history.

Trying to understand the law so I found this on Google:

"So what is the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and what does it say?

The first RFRA was a 1993 federal law that was signed into law by Democratic president Bill Clinton. It unanimously passed the House of Representatives, where it was sponsored by then-congressman Chuck Schumer, and sailed through the Senate on a 97-3 vote.

The law reestablished a balancing test for courts to apply in religious liberty cases (a standard had been used by the Supreme Court for decades). RFRA allows a person's free exercise of religion to be "substantially burdened" by a law only if the law furthers a "compelling governmental interest" in the "least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest."

So the law doesn't say that a person making a religious claim will always win. In the years since RFRA has been on the books, sometimes the courts have ruled in favor of religious exemptions, but many other times they haven't."

20 states now have RFRA. I've not heard of a case in the last 20 years of this law being used to discriminate against gays. Are there any that you have heard of?

[Initech]

40. No but that is interesting.

[caraher]

45. The message is as important as the technical details

They could have specifically said there is an overriding public interest in protecting gays from discrimination, but chose not to amend.

More important, this opens the door for more acts of discrimination even if they wouldn't be upheld in court. There's already one case of a man bragging about not serving gays and pointing to this law as something that will support him and others in the future.

He added that he knows "tons" of business owners in Indiana who agree with the law and don't want gay people in their businesses. They will, presumably, be actively discriminating against gay people now that they can legally do so. While we haven't heard yet of a business proactively kicking gay people out of their establishment since the law is passed, this is some evidence that there are business owners who are empowered to do so and intend to do so immediately.

"We don't want this in our places of business," the anonymous restauranteur said. "It's not right."

[tjl148]

62. Good point.

It has not been a problem in other states so we will see. But vigilance is good.

[Marrah_G]

44. I find that incredibly frightening

[anotojefiremnesuka]

46. This:

Will morph in to this .......




always does

[cali]

48. No, actually it does not. Don't get me wrong, I find the photo and the law and

theocracies antithetical to the Constitution and my beliefs but it doesn't always end up as you suggest.

[anotojefiremnesuka]

50. History is my guide as is what is going down currently today all over the world today

this is not limited to American Christians either and it always ends ugly.

If you have some other source that proves that once government starts allowing religion to over rule the civil law good things happen, I for one would be interested in seeing it.

[cali]

51. I didn't say good things happen. I said your insinuation that theocracies

have inevitably ended up with crazed killers butchering people has not always been historically true.

[anotojefiremnesuka]

52. So if one considers the Saudi Arabian government insane because of its method

of implementing that death penalty what does that make the USA who also has a death penalty?

So what current theocracy today is all honky-dory?

[mmonk]

49. While I think religious groups were looking at the law

more through prolife angles than discrimination angles such as restaurants not serving people, I think the nation is finally waking up to how badly these laws are written and considering how wide ranged they can be since the nation has gone from conservative when these laws first appeared to rw crazy and the tea party of today.

[Vinca]

53. I just mentioned this photo to my husband. Why on earth were all of these "religious" people

seemingly giddy over this law? I thought the Bible was supposed to teach love and not hate. But, of course, that's just my non-discriminating atheist opinion.

[caraher]

56. I think some of them are genuinely brainwashed

and really think this law protects some freedom of theirs that was in peril. I know that with the campaign against Obamacare there was a lot of propaganda spread in Catholic churches about attacks on their beliefs (basically because of contraceptive coverage) and the conservatives ate it up, wallowing in their imagined victimization. So many of them have been primed to believe their ability to practice religion was under attack and Pence is a white knight riding to their rescue.

It's not rational, but... I think the picture says it all

[Fred Sanders]

59. This photo shown once by the MSM...and the whole cultish lid is blown off the GOP...think they will?

[Yorktown]

54. I'd rather vote for a Hugh Heffner type of theocracy.

Those pin ups with the black skirts and white headscarves do not look very sexy to me.

[catbyte]

55. When are we going to start taxing their asses??

If your church inserts itself into politics, tax it. I am so sick of this shit.

[Caretha]

58. The perfect foil

to this religious crusade bullshit. Tax them at 90% and confiscate their property when they fail to pay.

[Diclotican]

69. caraher

caraher

To me this looks like a trow back - to some old pictures of clerics who had some power back in the days - like in the 1700s and 1800s - and before who had some of the same attitude - who wanted to demand that everyone should have the same faith - or the same rules as they saw it...


Law should be secular - religion should have no place in governance - that be in local matters - on state levels - or on national levels - and I say it as a christian myself... All religion and creeds - or sexual orientations should be protekted under law - but other than that - religion should have no place in governance... Pepole who wil not acept that - should be asked to leave their office - if not forced to do so by law and by tradtion - and by common sense for that matter..

Diclotican

[PatrickforO]

76. Shades of the Spanish Inquisition...

One can almost imagine a poor, tortured victim being dragged before these people and tried on the spot for heresy.

This is VERY scary.

[LuckyLib]

79. Other than the nuns, no women present. Because

most women get oppression. Indiana guv had to make a statement with this -- a theocracy indeed. Disgusting. Let the boycotts begin.

[hifiguy]

80. That picture is the highest degree of FUBAR.

Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition.

[BeanMusical]

82. Creepy bunch.

[alphafemale]

84. I haven't seen nuns dressed like that since I was a small child. nt