what the bible says about abortion:
10 hours ago
"Pro-Life" is anti-Christian.
?w=480&h
Wow. Once again, so much for "christian" values. (lower case used intentionally)
= new reply since forum marked as read
"And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away."
- Matthew 21:19
I like the grandiose, Shakespearean English of the KJV. So sue me. 
It was one of those newer, modern-English translations, though I don't recall which one.
I thought that was rather curious 
Luke 2:23
(as it is written in the Law of the Lord, "Every firstborn male is to be consecrated to the Lord"
,
Exodus 13:1
The LORD said to Moses,
Exodus 13:12
you are to give over to the LORD the first offspring of every womb. All the firstborn males of your livestock belong to the LORD.
Exodus 13:13
Redeem with a lamb every firstborn donkey, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem every firstborn among your sons.
Exodus 22:29
"Do not hold back offerings from your granaries or your vats. "You must give me the firstborn of your sons.
Exodus 34:19
"The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock.
Leviticus 27:26
"'No one, however, may dedicate the firstborn of an animal, since the firstborn already belongs to the LORD; whether an ox or a sheep, it is the LORD's.
Numbers 3:12
"I have taken the Levites from among the Israelites in place of the first male offspring of every Israelite woman. The Levites are mine,
Numbers 3:13
for all the firstborn are mine. When I struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, I set apart for myself every firstborn in Israel, whether human or animal. They are to be mine. I am the LORD."
Last edited Wed Apr 1, 2015, 11:34 PM - Edit history (3)
Leviticus 20 starts out forbidding a lot of "sins" that were part of the religious ceremonies of other nations in the mid-east. It requires people to actually SEE the sin being committed, which means it had to be done in the OPEN. Thus the acts forbidden in Leviticus 20 appears NOT to be sins in themselves, but sins for they involved REJECTING Israel's God in favor of the Pagan gods of the tribes around Israel (and embracing such tribes as one own, and rejecting Israel i.e. Treason more then blasphemy).
Please note Paragraphing was invented in the Dark Ages, attributed to Charlemagne. thus when this was written it was one long "paragraph" not the multitude of paragraphs used in modern Translations:
1The Lord said to Moses, 2“Say to the Israelites: ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing in Israel who sacrifices any of his children to Molek is to be put to death. The members of the community are to stone him. 3I myself will set my face against him and will cut him off from his people; for by sacrificing his children to Molek, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. 4If the members of the community close their eyes when that man sacrifices one of his children to Molek and if they fail to put him to death, 5I myself will set my face against him and his family and will cut them off from their people together with all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molek.
6“ ‘I will set my face against anyone who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute themselves by following them, and I will cut them off from their people.
7“ ‘Consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am the Lord your God. 8Keep my decrees and follow them. I am the Lord, who makes you holy.
9“ ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head.
10“ ‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.
11“ ‘If a man has sexual relations with his father’s wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
12“ ‘If a man has sexual relations with his daughter-in-law, both of them are to be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads.
13“ ‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
14“ ‘If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.
15“ ‘If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he is to be put to death, and you must kill the animal.
16“ ‘If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
17“ ‘If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or his mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They are to be publicly removed from their people. He has dishonored his sister and will be held responsible.
18“ ‘If a man has sexual relations with a woman during her monthly period, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them are to be cut off from their people.
19“ ‘Do not have sexual relations with the sister of either your mother or your father, for that would dishonor a close relative; both of you would be held responsible.
20“ ‘If a man has sexual relations with his aunt, he has dishonored his uncle. They will be held responsible; they will die childless.
21“ ‘If a man marries his brother’s wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.
22“ ‘Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out. 23You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them. 24But I said to you, “You will possess their land; I will give it to you as an inheritance, a land flowing with milk and honey.” I am the Lord your God, who has set you apart from the nations.
25“ ‘You must therefore make a distinction between clean and unclean animals and between unclean and clean birds. Do not defile yourselves by any animal or bird or anything that moves along the ground—those that I have set apart as unclean for you. 26You are to be holy to me because I, the Lord, am holy, and I have set you apart from the nations to be my own.
27“ ‘A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.’ ”
http://biblehub.com/niv/leviticus/20.htm
Just a comment that many of the "Sexual" acts outlawed above, appeared to have been "Religious" acts among the various tribes around Israel. i.e sex NOT for sex sake, but as part of some sort of religious ceremony, thus Leviticus starts with a ban on Child Sacrificing and end on a ban on "Mediums". In between you see a ban on sex with their children, their parents, other close relatives AND animals. Some of these acts appear to be reenacted as part of the religious ceremonies of tribes (For example the people of Moab were viewed as descendants from Lot and his two daughters, thus a ceremony of the people of Moab included sexual acts between "Father Lot" and his "Daughters"
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lot_%28biblical_person%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moab
Edomites Claim decent from Abraham, but via Issac's son Esau NOT Jacob, who was the father of Joseph and his brothers who were the founders of the Ancient Israeli tribe:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edom
In Egypt the Pharaohs were known to marry their own sisters, thus such relationships were know to the Ancient Israelis and again part of the Egyptian Religious Culture.
Marduk was the chief god of Ancient Babylonia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marduk
Just a comment that much of Leviticus 20 appears to be attacks on people who worship other religions (and by that reject one's own country and relatives i,e, more like Treason then Blasphemy).
I keep forgetting about the Philistines. The Philistines lived in what is now Gaza, an extremely rich agricultural area of Sinai Peninsula, but with NO ports, but easy beaches to operate small ships out of. i.e a lot of fishing boats but few if any cargo ships. The bible uses the term Philistine quite broadly. Most Scholars believe (and agreeing with some of the first translators of the bible in the days of Classical Greece) that prior to the division of the Kingdom of Israel at the death of King Solomon, the term Philistine applies to the people living on the coast, but were of semitic/Egyptian people. At the time of the break up of the Kingdom of Israel, the "Sea people" invaded Egypt, these were defeated and settle in Gaza by the Egyptians, but these were greek speaking people with connections to Crete and Greece.
In Greek legends, about the same time as the "Sea People" were hitting Egypt, the "Dorian Invasion" was occurring in Greece, destroying the Greece that had fought the Trojan War. Athens did NOT fall to that Invasion, but Sparta would claim it was part of that invasion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines
The "Dorian Invasion" also occurred about that same time period,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorian_invasion
One of the problem for this time period, roughly 1200-950 BC, is that you had a break down in society, trade roots were disrupted as Iron replaced Bronze (But Bronze remain an important metal), climate became colder so that people moved about, and formed into bands and broke up. Conquered new lands, then were absorbed by the locals, or were defeated and settled by their conquerors (as in the case of Egypt and Gaza) into areas were populations had collapsed but could be rebuilt.
Thus Moses left Egypt, wondered the Sinai, at his death the Israelis moved into the West Bank, and stayed there and came out on top as they and other local tribes fought over who lived where, till David took over. At Solomon's death the short period of stability came to an end, Israel broke into two kingdoms.
In Greece a similar situation was occurring, but given they had used a hieroglyphic alphabet that was forgotten as times went bad, the details of the changes were forgotten till the Greeks adopted the Semitic Phonetic Alphabet about 700 BC.
The Destruction of Thera of the West Coast of Modern Turkey, was involved and it would have caused more problems in Greece and Modern day Turkey then is the more distant Egypt and Palestine (It is believed to have lead to the destruction of the Hittite nation).
Thera destruction is set about 1600 BC, a little to early but it is a factor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption
http://c3headlines.typepad.com/.a/6a010536b58035970c01a3fd2b88ba970b-400wi
Another factor is climate change. The following Chart I found an a denier page, but it shows when temperatures did drop over the last 5000 years, and the key to understanding the collapse of society of abut 1200-950 BC(and the collapse of the Western Roman Empire and the Dark ages 350-950 AD, is the DROP in tempertures compared to previous periods and for that reason I am using this chart):
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Notice the drop in temperature after about 400 AD, and the previous drop in the 200s. Both were periods that Rome came under attack AND Roman Resources disappeared. The movement of the Barbarians and Roman finding new resources in the 300s can be seen in the previous decline that was brief but enough to cause all types of problem for Rome. Temperature peaked about 200 BC and then went into a slow decline, a decline that Rome could handle and did for it was a spike and warm spikes cause little problems.
Research has indicated that rapid declines in temperatures have lead to Crisis, not a upward spike follow by a decline to "normal" temperatures, nor an increase (but we have had NO increase like we are having today, which is a different story).
Another chart showing temperatures peaking about 1200 BC (about 3200 years before the present which is how the chart is set up) and then steady from 1000 BC (3000 years BP on the Chart) till about 200 BC
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2010/05/dear-mr-abbott/
Just a comment that roughly 1200-900 BC, you had a sharp decline in world wide temperatures and thus a change in crop outcomes (i.e. people had to move to find some place to farm or raise their herds of sheep or cattle or die of starvation). And out of that mess came the states of Ancient Israel and Judea. The people did not know what was happening, but they had to react to it, those that reacted the best survived and that reaction is reflected in their religion and given the success of the Jews the Bible,
about abortion:
Nobody here probably knows who Marcion of Sinopes is. How many books were left out of the Bible? Why? What was the Council of Trent? The Great Schism. I always find Christains fascinating, because most hardly know anything about what they stake their life on! What is the difference between a Cherbub and a Seraphim?
I guess none of that matters really, all you have to do is believe in Jesus. Still...the biblical quote game is so silly, that anyone can play and be a winner!
Okay some GREAT biblical quotes! And my comments.
Fuck this up and God gets pissed;
"Then shalt thou kill the ram, and take of his blood, and put it upon the tip of the right ear of Aaron, and upon the tip of the right ear of his sons, and upon the thumb of their right hand, and upon the great toe of their right foot, and sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about." -- Exodus 29:20
Kids pick on the wrong holy dude;
"As he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."--2 Kings 2:23-24
Everyone that shops at Old Navy is going to Hell;
"Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together." --Deuteronomy 22:11
God shows up with a huge can of whip ass;
I saw the LORD standing upon the altar: and he said ... I will slay the last of them with the sword.--Amos 9:1
God is the original Dungeon Master;
"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels." --Revelation 12
Dam...what is coming out of my nose!?;
"Ye shall not eat one day, nor two days, nor five days, neither ten days, nor twenty days; But even a whole month, until it come out at your nostrils, and it be loathsome unto you." --Numbers 11:19-20
Point is...anyone can take any cannon and find whatever they want in it if they look hard enough.
Thank you, niyad
Thank you!
You mean, the ones who don't believe in talking snakes and floating ghosts in the sky?
Easter's date is set under Rules the reflect the long term budget (19 years) adopted by the Emperor Diocletian. When Constantine became Emperor he asked the Christian Bishops to standardize some Christian holidays to reflect traditional Roman Holiday. For over 100 years prior to Constantine, the Roman Army had slowly adopted the Sun as its "god" and that worship (And this is NOT worship of the Sun God Apollo, but the sun itself) had a holiday every 14 days on what we call Sunday. The Christians bishops read the bible and notice the bible only says one out of 7 days is a day of rest and that day could be Sunday instead of Saturday, thus to keep the Sun Worshippers happy, the day of rest was transferred to Sunday.
Worshipping of the almighty Sun continued under Constantine but seems to have been replaced by Arianism in the Roman Army by the time of death of Constantine's son. Emperor Julian then became emperor and seems to have a plan to return Rome to Pagan Worship, but died in battle as he retreated from his failed attempt to sack the Capital of Persia so he could pay for the reconversion. Subsequent Emperors returned to Constantine's policy of looting Pagan Temples for the Gold in those temples, so the troops could be paid (Constantine minted Gold Coins from such Loots called "Soldius" from which we get the term Soldier). This "Looting" was always controlled, called "Riots" by pagan writers, but here were NEVER riots, the Emperor and his troops were always in control for they wanted the gold from the Temples to pay the troops.
As to Easter, most Christian Churches in the Western Empire did NOT have access to Jewish calendars, so it was decided to adopt a rule based on the 19 year long term Roman Budget. The reason 19 was picked was Rome, when it came to numbers had a tendency to be "Inclusive" as oppose to being 'exclusive" i.e. Year One of a 20 year cycle was also the 20th year of the previous cycle. We tend to be "exclusive" i.e year one of a 20 year cycle is the year AFTER the 20th year of the previous cycle. This caused some problems after Julius Ceasar had adopted the Julian Calendar for Rome when he was Dictator of Rome. The Julian Calendar had a leap year every four years (like today's Gregorian Calendar) and it was clear Julius Ceasar wanted it be four exclusive years, but for about 20-30 years it was done on an exclusive basis, i.e. every three years as we calculate three years, but that was every four years as the Ancient Romans counted years. Augustus Ceasar discovered this error and corrected it but it does cause some problems for the years the three year rule was used.
Thus the date of Easter is based on Roman Budget periods for even the invading barbarians knew of those periods for they had been paid based on those periods. The Christian Church that survived the fall of the Roman Empire, also kept that long term budget and with it the 19 year "golden period". It was called the "Golden Period" for the budget from Constantine onward was in terms of gold (and the troops were paid in gold AND the entrance for any visiting royalty to Constantinople, the capital of the Roman Empire AFTER the fall of the Empire in the West, entered that city through its "Golden Gate" .
Side note: The older Roman Empire had paid is troops and debts in silver, but when the Silver mines of Spain watered out in the mid 200s, something had to replace the silver and no one came up with a replacement till Constantine decided to abandon paganism (and its Golden Idols) in favor of Christianity. n many ways, Rome was forced to become Christian for it was the only Empire Wide Religion that did NOT have golden idols to maintain. Gold was used by the Christians but in times of Crisis they would give it up, unlike the Pagan Temples that refused to do so.
Such a comment that HOW we calculate when Easter occurs is based on What the Roman Emperors required. It is NOT religious in calculation except that Easter had to be one day for all Christians (or as few as different days as possible, thus the Orthodox add the requirement it be after Passover, some thing many Christians in the Western Roman Empire did not know how to calculate thus NOT a requirement in Catholic or Protestant Religions.
It's Easter break. Jesus is taking a little vacation time with Paul and Peter, doing some fishing. Paul taunts him..."Hey, I hear you used to be pretty good with that walk on water thing!"
"Of course, man! That's my gig!" says Jesus. "Check this out!"
At that, Jesus steps out of the boat and immediately sinks to the bottom of the lake. Gasping for air, he swims back to the boat. "I don't understand it! I used to be so good at that!" he cries.
"Sure," says Paul. "But that was before you got those holes in your feet."
Badoom. Thank you, I'll be here all week. Or until I burn in hell.
