It's only taken me 9.5 years, but I'm finally making my 2000th post. A serious question for DUers...

[MANative]

Do you think that most of the RWNJs who are currently either in elected office or running for office actually believe all the crazy drivel they spout? Are they really that dumb, or are they playing along to get votes from the uneducated base?

There's so much crazy out there, that I don't know what to believe any more. It would depress me to the point of no return to think that they were all that stupid. The cynic in me could actually accept the lying more easily than the idea that we've fallen so horribly low to so completely devalue intellect and critical thinking.

[JaneyVee]

1. Sadly, yes, they are that crazy.

[MANative]

4. :(

[Katashi_itto]

2. I think we have fallen that low.

I look at it as Darwin at work. The stupid types simply out breed the smart ones. Now, we are being dragged into extinction by them.

[MANative]

8. Dragged down to the lowest common denominator.

If that doesn't suck, I don't know what does.

[Katashi_itto]

16. Pretty much. Mankind Killed by it's hordes of stupid. Sort of like zombies. Wonder if thats why

the zombie genre has become so popular. Down deep people realize the stupids are slowly overwhelming us, and will kill us all in the end.

[MANative]

24. Either that or AI. It's a race to the end of the species, or it sure seems that way.

[Liberal_in_LA]

3. i think many know they are spouting lies.

[MANative]

6. There are a handful whom I strongly suspect fall into this category.

If only there were a way to entice them back to pragmatism, at the very least.

[Blanks]

19. The problem is...

When people are payed millions of dollars to say what you want them to say, they move away from sanity.

I don't believe the high paid mouthpieces like Hannity, Limbaugh and Glenn Beck believe a word that they're saying.

Their followers don't know any better. I'm not sure I couldn't be convinced to spout some of the crap that they do if I were paid what they're getting paid.

[MANative]

22. I'd like to think I would stick to my principles rather than sell out for the money ala Beck, et al

But I suppose you're right. Everyone has a price, but I'm not sure that it should include one's soul.

[Blanks]

113. I expect it seems harmless at first...

They're expected to say things that they agree with or mostly agree with, but as time goes by what they're expected to say gets worse and worse as the pay gets better.

I'm just guessing, but that's what I would guess is happening. They can't come clean either because they like the celebrity it gives them.

[appalachiablue]

33. Hosts may not believe it but their followers take it to heart & certainly believe it. God help us.

The well paid mouthpieces return to their nice estate homes in FL like Rush who's wedding Carville & wife attended and didn't Elton John also perform for him. For these haters it's a highly paid media entertainment gig and they're well off financially and socially, not so the poor suckers. For them it becomes ideology, a way to live and think esp. Re guns, religion, immigrants, gays, the guvment, libruls, minorities.

[Blanks]

114. That's what I believe is happening...

To the hate radio host it is just entertainment, but to their fans it's the gospel.

That should go on a t-shirt.

[marym625]

49. I think beck does

[Blanks]

115. Beck is different...

He has that whole 'theblaze' thing and his followers march to the beat of a crazier drum.

I think he's all about the money though and theblaze was created to add an additional wall to the right wing echo chamber. A lot of 'click bait' headlines that the article itself may not support.

[marym625]

116. agree

He's all about the money. But I still think he believes his own crap.

[marym625]

5. I think most don't when they start

And then end up believing their own crap.

[MANative]

7. There is that old saying about telling a lie often enough that even...

you eventually believe it to be true. That's... sad.

[marym625]

15. Very sad

Btw, congratulations on your 2000th post.

[MANative]

20. Thank you! It took me a while, but I go through long periods of lurking. :)

[marym625]

42. I think, after I stopped lurking,

I got to 2000 in about 5 minutes

Ok, more like 6 months

Glad to have you active!

[MANative]

48. Thanks - I do tend to get more verbal in the run-up to elections.

I've been especially verbose in the last couple of months.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. Have a look at Bob Altemeyer's work on the authoritarian personality.

Or read John Dean's Conservatives Without Conscience for a summary of Altemeyer. In any case, Altemeyer has identified 2 types of authoritarian--what we might (but he does not) call the True Believer, who is thoroughly enmeshed in the ideology, etc., and the Authoritarian Leader. The latter type is essentially an authoritarian psychopath. They use the ideological crap to manipulate their followers, acting with total cynicism to advance their own interests.

[MANative]

10. I think the Authoritarian Leader is probably closer to what I believe of most of these clowns.

Thanks for the recommendations; I'll definitely check them out.

[marym625]

46. Jack, do you think

that the authoritarian psychopath starts believing their crappie after a while?

[Jackpine Radical]

117. I really don't know, but from having dealt with other psychopaths

(mostly the ordinary criminal variety), I don't think the beliefs are important to them, beyond what they get them in an instrumental sense.

[marym625]

118. Good point

Thank you for the reply

[zeemike]

56. +1

And that is how the sociopaths win...by manipulating people through ideology.

[appalachiablue]

119. Dean's book title says it all, has been around for a while but I need to remember it.

[jeff47]

11. IMO, we're at about half-and-half

About half of the RWNJs actually believe it. The other half are terrified of the believers, so they cater to them.

As for fear, this is the last throes of the "Reagan Revolution". It'll still take a while to die, but part of the reason for the insanity is they want to "lock in" as much as possible before they lose.

[MANative]

12. The very definition of "conservative" behavior.

Can't disappear soon enough.

[appalachiablue]

120. Pray that this is the last throes of the Reagan Rev.! although a stronger, more unified front

against it would have been more effective, obviously. One appears to be taking place finally with the new interest in populism in spite of years of the GOP and some centrist Dems. going along with breaking unions, outsourcing and ending publically run schools, prisons, hospitals and govt. agencies and programs. As well, the reduction of vital safety net programs taking place from austerity and steady shift to deregulation and privatization that's been happening for 30 years here, in the UK, elsewhere and even some in Sweden which they're trying to reverse.

Late in responding to your reply Re the lack of Dem. leadership esp. in the 40-60 year old age group. The info. was helpful Re distinctions between the views of boomers, the smaller Gen. X population and millennials.
The books of authors Strauss and Howe which progressive Thom Hartmann has discussed, particularly *'The Fourth Turning' (1997) point out behavior patterns of American and other generations that have produced Civic-Heroes, Adaptive-Artists types in 80 year cycles depending on societal circumstances. Interesting although a bit too early to factor in the enormous influence of globalization, climate change and rapid advancement in AI now that will displace 50% of US workers in the next 20 years, as Oxford-Martin and other experts forecast.

The thought that older millennials will start to fill in the gap with more activist political reps. is positive even in view of dominant private and corporate sector growth esp. in technology, the pervasive contempt for govt. and the public service area and major reduced funding of govt. at all levels from lessened tax revenue because of lowered incomes and tax breaks for the wealthy. The large millennial age group has been left a lot to handle clearly, even as so many are positive, creative and energetic.

The revived appreciation of what Roosevelt, Eleanor, Labor Secy. Frances Perkins and others put in place with the recovery and New Deal relates directly to the Crash of 2008, the largest financial crisis in 80 years brought on by the deregulation of banks with the repeal of Glass-Steagall in 1998 and the allowance of risky derivatives stock trading soon after. The post-crash financial losses in home values and 401K retirement plans from Wall Street banking fraud, home foreclosures, unemployment and misery highlighted the critical importance of financial reforms FDR had put in place, his safety net and the social programs of LBJ. There are many similarities in the two eras unfortunately.

[babylonsister]

13. Awww.

Depends on the age, maybe. But most of them are supposed to be intelligent, so I suspect they're playing to their base. Let that sink in. It's a calculated thing imo. Dumb down the base, and you rule.

It's appalling, isn't it.

And get with the program!

[MANative]

17. Yes, very much the "Authoritarian Leader" to which Jackpine Radical referred.

It's so very sad.

[Rex]

14. That's a good question.

Here is a poll that actually asks the question.

http://www.discussionist.com/1015381291

Seems some do, some don't.

[MANative]

30. I don't know whether the answer is material to anything; it just frames how I deal with...

all the wackiness around me.

[Rex]

31. Well that forum has actual republicans on it that are not scared to say what they want to.

So unlike DU, were we don't allow the GOP...DI is probably going to give you more of an honest answer. That answer? As you can see, some think they are just idiots ruining the country and others think it is just some that are moonbats making the rest look like moonbats.

I personally think people like Cruz, believes what he says and that he really does think God chose him etc.. However people like Cheney are only in it for money and power and as godless as they come imo.

[MANative]

34. I haven't paid enough attention to Cruz yet to draw my own conclusion...

but a lot of what I'm hearing is pointing in that direction. Cheney is evil personified without a single redeeming quality. He seems to surround himself with people of that ilk, too, so the entire Bush administration fell into that category.

[appalachiablue]

41. Yes Cruz is scary and highly intelligent, educated. Fortunately his personal demeanor & appearance

make him very unattractive- the face, the thin, bad speaking voice, his sloppy look- definitely 10 on the creepy scale. I think he'd be perfect to take over Pat Robertson's TV empire, out of the way. Don't see him long term in national politics although there's worse. Who knows-

[Algernon Moncrieff]

18. Those in politics: Most believe some; I think few believe all of it

Politics is politics

Those outside politics: Yeah...I think they believe all of it and worse.

[MANative]

28. I think you're very right about those outside politics.

And your assessment of those in the biz seems pretty accurate, too.

[bigwillq]

21. Congrats on 2000!

[MANative]

25. Thank you!

[jaysunb]

23. Let me pose this question:

Is their base really as stupid, dumb or whatever you want to call it ? They DO live among us.

[MANative]

26. Yes, they do. And I'm appalled on a daily basis by some of the behavior...

that I witness. And once in a while, I'm pleasantly surprised. That happens less frequently all the time, though.

[annabanana]

27. Some actually do (cough Gomert) Some (and the most dangerous)

are the purely craven like Cruz. He is smart enough to know it's crap and lustful enough for power that he doesn't care

[MANative]

29. Scary that people can be such sociopaths and still walk freely among us...

More frightening still that they end up in positions of power and authority.

[appalachiablue]

43. +1 dangerous

[NYC_SKP]

32. I think they know that half of it is bullshit but have no compunction with spewing the lies.

But I do think that over time they start believing much of it.

Democrats do it too.

[MANative]

36. That's a good point. I guess it's a matter of which lies one chooses to believe...

and how detrimental they are to the greater good. We truly seemed to have entered an age where that matters to just about no one with any power.

[babylonsister]

37. Oooh, goody!

And hi!


What have Dems tried to sell people on that are now believed that weren't initially?


As for rethugs, they know it's b.s., period. Follow the money.

[NYC_SKP]

53. They're all scoundrels. Republicans are, of course, worse about it.

But, for me, when Democrats do it I feel more betrayed.

It kind of comes with the territory, politics often involves pandering and use of trigger words and phrases and pols say things that have no base in facts because they can't be experts in everything.

If they rely on people who don't know better, they can easily tell lies. Sometimes its an oversight and other times it's a conscious lie, that's the worst.

California Senate President Pro Tem Kevin de León is one such Dem.

http://www.latimes.com/local/political/la-me-pc-california-senate-kevin-de-leon-removes-panel-staffers-20141218-story.html

And "Hi" backatcha!

[babylonsister]

73. Haha, a local pol gone bad?

I'm glad you're outraged, so keep fighting!

[mulsh]

35. Congrats. I've been here under 2 different names since 2001 and have

barely made over 2k posts. Mostly because posters like yourself tend to say what I'm thinking more eloquently and before I can post. I mean that as a compliment.

[MANative]

38. Thank you - that's so kind.

Sometimes I think I express myself reasonably well. Sometimes I'm so angry and frustrated that I can't even form a single coherent thought, never mind make a cogent argument around it!

[babylonsister]

39. Hi, mulsh.

So you read and learn. It's a good thing!

[markpkessinger]

40. I'm not sure it matters one way or the other . . .

. . . As far as I'm concerned, when you feed, water and give air and sunshine to right wing nuttery, even if you don't personally believe it, you are just as culpable as those who do believe it.

[MANative]

44. Hadn't really thought about it in quite that way, but you're right...

Anything that perpetuates the bullshit is as damaging as the idea itself.

[markpkessinger]

52. Indeed! n/t

[Voice for Peace]

45. The art of lying. First they must lie to themselves.

If they know they are lying to others, they lie to themselves
and their cohorts about why.

[MANative]

51. I'll have to think about that for a bit. I'm not sure which lies come first...

and I guess that's really at the core of this, isn't it?

[Journeyman]

47. Let's use a non-politician -- Gretchen Carlson at Fox -- as a guide. . .

Gretchen Carlson was her high school valedictorian, graduated Stanford University cum laude, and studied abroad at Oxford. She's also a classical violinist.

If she can dumb it down to be a success at Fox, imagine how much easier it must be for people like Cruz and Paul to put one over on the people who see them only rarely, and always in just as scripted a moment as Carlson enjoys on the set at Fox.

Here's Jon Stewart's take on how Carlson "dumbs it down" . . .

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-december-8-2009/gretchen-carlson-dumbs-down

[MANative]

54. That's pretty stunning. I've always dismissed her as nothing more than...

a not-entirely-unattractive airhead. She plays the role well. I can't stomach even two minutes of Fox, so getting first-hand impressions of their "talent" is something I've not done.

[Journeyman]

66. It opened my eyes, too. And if she can pull it off, how much easier is it for the likes of Cruz. . .

or even Paul? Just because they sound like an idiot and speak like one too, doesn't mean they are one.

Why, here's a song about someone who was arguably one of the more intelligent politicians of the 20th Century. He skipped through most of his formal education and passed the bar exam at age 21 without ever earning a single diploma. He was revered as a champion of the common man and demonized by many as a dangerous demagogue. Yet in 1935, he stood poised to potentially take the Presidency from FDR. He was Huey Long, known as the "Kingfish," and he was no one's fool. . .

Lyrics for Kingfish By Randy Newman

There's a hundred thousand Frenchmen in New Orleans
In New Orleans there are Frenchmen everywhere
But your house could fall down
Your baby could drown
Wouldn't none of those Frenchmen care


Everybody gather 'round
Loosen up your suspenders
Hunker down on the ground
I'm a cracker
And you are too
But don't I take good care of you?


Who built the highway to Baton Rouge?
Who put up the hospital and built you schools?
Who looks after shit-kickers like you?
The Kingfish do

Who gave a party at the Roosevelt Hotel?
And invited the whole north half of the state down there for free
The people in the city
Had their eyes bugging out
Cause everyone of you
Looked just like me

Kingfish, Kingfish
Everybody sing
Kingfish, Kingfish
Every man a king

Who took on the Standard Oil men
And whipped their ass
Just like he promised he'd do?
Ain't no Standard Oil men gonna run this state
Gonna be run by little folks like me and you

Kingfish, Kingfish
Friend of the working man
Kingfish, Kingfish
The Kingfish gonna save this land

[MANative]

69. That's something to think about, for sure. Thanks for the thought-provoking posts!

[jimlup]

50. I think some do and some are aware of the illusion

it is an interesting question. People like Dick Cheney don't. He is just evil to the core. Others like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz are probably stupid enough to think that they are right and even smart.

[MANative]

59. Rand Paul in particular...

I think there's only about a quarter of a functioning brain under all that "hair."

[bvar22]

55. Congrats on your 2000.

My Wife has been a member and regular reader of DU since 2001,
but has less than 50 posts.
She quickly decided that it wasn't worth the time, effort, or aggravation to argue or debate idiots or conservatives.

She doesn't suffer fools gladly,
but somehow she has stayed with me for 15 years.
Go figure.

[MANative]

60. Thank you!

Even when I don't post, I'm always around, reading and absorbing and refining my viewpoints based on the evidence and arguments I see here.

The logical conclusion to your premise with regard to your dear wife is that you are, in fact, not a fool. ;D

[bvar22]

61. Thanks!

I'll be watching for future posts.

[Jamaal510]

57. I feel the opposite.

I'd have more respect for them and hate them less if they were true believers, rather than just lying or rabble-rousing in order to get poorer people to vote for more top tax breaks. With a RW liar, the person may actually have critical thinking skills and be aware of what policies work and which ones don't (unlike a true wingnut), but they lack a moral compass and will still choose to push policies that don't work and/or hatemonger for the sake of a self-centered agenda. True wingnuts are at least honest to themselves, fighting for what they genuinely believe is right. But like you said, it's hard to tell which of the GOP stars are shady, and which are nuts.

[MANative]

63. Yeah, I guess part of that comes from my rather vocal and vociferous disdain for...

"fundamentalists" and organized religion, which seem to be the most rabid forces driving much of the craziness over the last couple of decades, but especially in the last five or six years. I get that people have what they feel are genuine beliefs. I just can't understand how they get there. I think a "moral compass" requires that someone is aware and concerned of the impact of his or her actions and decisions on everyone who would feel its reach. It seems clear that most RWNJs are only concerned with the impact on a tiny fraction of the population.

[ErikJ]

58. The thing is they say the same about liberals

but I then point out to them that they get their "facts" like the earth being created in 6 days from the Bible. That usually shuts them up pretty fast.

[MANative]

65. My favorite line is...

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

[hopemountain]

62. highly recommend: capitalism & sociopathology - earth at risk 2014 - charles derber

linktv.org - several showings this week and into april. charles derber provides a succinct base for "capitalist" think in about the first 15 - 20 minutes.

[MANative]

67. Thank you! I'll check it out. :)

[Mr.Bill]

64. When Victoria Jackson was on SNL,

I actually liked her. I just thought she was brilliant at playing the classic airhead blonde in skits.

Then I saw her on a talk show and found out she really is that airhead.

I think some of the politicians are putting on an act to pander, but I also think gerrymandering has allowed some pretty stupid people to get elected. I think they are puppets for the people that paid for their campaigns.

[MANative]

68. The puppetry is getting more obvious in many cases, isn't it?

The real question is what to do about the puppet-masters.

[cyberswede]

70. I think some are and some aren't

For instance, people like Cheney used RW religious whackjobs as useful idiots, but I doubt they're actually religious themselves.

Congrats on making it to 2K posts!

[MANative]

71. I completely agree on your point about Cheney and his cronies.

Thank you!

[Android3.14]

72. It's a good question

I hit my 2000th a short while ago too.

It's a pathetic dilemma in which we find ourselves. Either the Republican leaders truly are so insane and stupid that they actually believe in this "crazy drivel" (Palin may be an example) or they are so craven with power they manipulate people in order to accumulate more power in some hell of inhumane indifference (Cruz or Christy seem to be of this ilk).

The unfortunate fact is that both situations are occurring.

[MANative]

75. Your final sentence is the operative one. And the saddest.

[Historic NY]

74. Yes and they cater to like minded RWNJ's

[MANative]

76. And sadly, they vote in droves while our constituency stays home...

especially in mid-terms.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

77. Yes. I blame Newt and his "Word List"....

Newt Gingrich came up with a whole flock of idiots who were good at running negative campaigns but didn't know squat about government apart from considering "government" to be a "bad" thing. Over the years those idiots rose into leadership positions and they only backed fellow idiots like themselves. Well healed, well scrubbed, Reagan worshiping, Aryans who could pose and smile with the wife and kinder and who could spout off like Rush or Hannity. Idiots who were CONVINCED that ANYONE could be rich if they just stopped the "entitlement mentality" and got off their lazy ass and WORKED for a living.

This played well in the South where Republicans had tapped into the local hick population's notion that the reason they were broke was because the government to the North was stealing their money to give to black people (not the words they use) in the "inner cities".

Now, as time has passed we have seen things deteriorate to where the claim that Sarah Palin "represents the future of the republican party" scarily has merit.

[MANative]

79. Between Newt, Lee Atwater and Karl Rove, they had a slew of master manipulators.

These men were, in fact, evil geniuses who massaged the messages until they found exactly what seemed to resonate with those undereducated hicks, and then they exploited it to the nth degree. And they're still doing it. They've perfected it to such a degree that I don't know what can possibly counteract it.

Sarah Palin is truly an idiot of the highest order. I have exactly zero respect for her. I really wish she'd just disappear and take the Kardashians with her.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

86. What I find funny is SuperPatriIdiots who love FOX "News"...

Despite the fact that it's owned by an Australian and a Saudi Prince.

[MANative]

95. I know! How ironic!

[on point]

78. Sadly yes. No accident circle of the delusional nut job pols overlaps the delusional religious fools

in the venn diagram. These people believe anything they are told to believe by their authoritarian father figures. Also one reason they are into fascism and hate.

Obey or be crushed. They are a threat to democracy.

[MANative]

81. I fear that they've already succeeded in crushing democracy. They've allowed the money to usurp...

the vote, and unless something is done to overturn Citizen's United (I'm not holding my breath), I don't see how it will change.

[Hoppy]

80. Its some of each.

Some of these politicians are actual loonies.

Others are pandering.

A difference is when some answer a question by spouting an assholic answer.



Others dance around the question. For example, Rubio.... "Do you believe in global warming? His answer was, "I am not a scientist." Rubio knows but doesn't want to lose votes.

[MANative]

82. Exactly! That's one of the events that I had in mind when I wrote the question.

[ReasonableToo]

83. Craig Ferguson has toured congress...

Skip to 12:30 for Craig Ferguson's impression of congress

link:

Then, if you have time, go to the beginning and watch the rest of the interview with Hugh Laurie.

[MANative]

96. I love the "double bluff" bit.

I fear that many are exactly as Craig described - not very bright. They are charismatic, well-trained in what to say and how to say it, and shameless about asking for money in exchange for doing their donors' bidding. The description brings to mind another profession, and the comparison is not flattering.

[ChiciB1]

84. I Can Only Tell You What I See From

people I know VERY PERSONALLY One of them is my sister who lives in TX. She's older than me, a little more than 3 years. I have 5 sisters, grew up as Army brats and my parents and most of my sisters are Dems. Just one other sister who may be Ind., but not into politics at all that I know of but did support Ross Perot, still does. Weird.
We all were raised as strict Catholics, but I'm NOTHING now. One in TX became a Fundamentalist and has told me some very, very weird things. We are still close as long as we don't talk politics, she me she REALLY thinks Obama is the Anti-Christ! I laughed and told her I'll wait til I see his horns.

She's said some other off the wall things, but they're way OUT there. Fox News stuff, and she has 4 boys with their own families and they have kids too. THEY all believe Fox crap and if you try to give her any facts, she argues and it's no use trying. She told me lately Obama won't work with Congress and does nothing but executive orders. He's mostly a like Hitler, just another Nazi! I'm sure you've heard the stuff they spew. I have to remind her she's talking to the one sister who leans left and follows politics closely. I go back to TX for our class reunions and her house is full of church stuff that kind of scares me.

Anyway, her whole clan spout the bible and a couple tell me I must have been adopted. I don't look like the others much, but I'm No. 5 of the bunch and since it's all girls can't imagine my parents adopting another girl. And most of them are overweight, they tell me I'm anorexic and need to gain 10 lbs. Really dumb, I just watch my weight because I could easily get heavy, but I'm not skinny at all, my doctor says I'm fine.

So to answer your question YES there are people who believe all things that are very right wing and more. As I said some very way out stuff.

[MANative]

97. I guess some people need something to believe in, and when they don't find it...

in themselves, they cling to whatever crumbs are tossed at them. Fox and the RWNM have done a masterful job of manipulating and outright lying to get their agenda fulfilled. It should be criminal.

[hay rick]

85. They are in sales.

The best sales people come across as sincere. In the case of RWNJs- they can be deluded or they can be extraordinarily cynical actors. I think most are deluded but the practical difference is insignificant.

I am more interested in the folks that "buy in" to the sales pitch. I view it as a sense of entitlement- they have rights as consumers of ideology rather than obligations as citizens. They don't ask themselves which policies serve the greater good but rather, which blandishments reinforce their sense of superiority and victimization.

[haikugal]

92. Yes, I can see that..

Good observation well said.

[MANative]

98. And everything they support just feeds into the echo chamber. It's a ...

self-sustaining system, and it's destroying not only the country, but the planet, too.

[Thespian2]

87. Enlightening to read William Faulkner

and discover that the insane, low-life Snopes family became the rulers. I am afraid you have two beasts going about as RWNJ. Group 1 actually believes what they have been brain-washed to think. Group 2 is made up of psychopaths. Both groups will do what their corporate masters tell them to do. Most laws introduced by these incompetent puppets were write by corporations, especially ALEC, and simply passed by cities, counties, states, and the US Congress. American politicians on the right are filled with over-riding hate.

[MANative]

99. Exactly!

And the truth is, they provoke a lot of hate, too.

[Darb]

88. They are paid. Pure and simple.

Nobody would say and act as they do without being paid to do it.

Our political system has been completely corrupted to the point of comedy.

[MANative]

100. Or tragedy. Maybe both. :(

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

89. It's been 8 yrs, 4 months and I'm close to 2,000

I think half the population ignores politics, and they don't vote. The Faux propaganda machine hypnotizes their viewers with "Entertainment" and the liberal/left has little voice, and strange things happen to those who do speak, (Gary Webb, Judi Bari, Paul Wellstone.) With electronic voting machines, with "Secret Code," the votes of those who are able to vote can't be relied on. I think they know it's a game show, they get paid to play, and they are just playing to the crowd, and their press for their "Boss". I still vote and try to follow what is happening, and send money to candidates that speak out on issues I believe in. I also save vegetable seeds from my garden and wonder how things will go after "the collapse"...

[MANative]

101. It's hard for people not to be apathetic when they see gross injustices perpetrated...

and feel they have no voice in correcting them. They've been trained that their vote doesn't matter for so long that they've now fully bought into the idea. And now it doesn't matter any more because enough of them have been chased away from the ballot box.

[jtuck004]

90. "actually believe all the crazy drivel they spout? Are they really that dumb..."

Yes, they do.

They are not dumb. "completely devalue intellect and critical thinking" - it is beyond that. They see it as harmful. (Then again, if you had a tribe (word chosen on purpose) separated from civilization and you dropped some IT folks in among them, the IT folks might just get killed. Doesn't mean the people who killed them are dumb).

They are driven, like cockaroaches, and, frankly, many would just as seen see the world on fire as cooperate with anyone who doesn't see things as they do.

They assume, as you do, that all right thinking people see it their way, and that the extremes are "dumb", or worse. In their view their opponents deserve less respect than something they might step in, and they think eradication efforts are of value.

Kinda like Patton - they think their job is to make "...the other dumb bastard die for his..." cause. That's us.

I think we have fallen lower than you posit, and the next 2 to 3 decades are gonna be fuckin' horrendous. Maybe worse. Or perhaps I am being too optimistic.

[MANative]

102. Well, that makes me want to weep. :(

I used to be an optimist, thinking that good people would find solutions for the greater advancement of society. It doesn't feel that way any more.

[Hoyt]

91. If they don't believe it themselves, they believe it will attract the yahoo right wingers.

[MANative]

103. That really sums it up, doesn't it?

[Major Hogwash]

93. Both.

I'll figure out if I am wrong later.

[MANative]

105. I hate to tell you, but I think you're right.

[treestar]

94. Playing along to get votes

They think of it as a game. They likely in private laugh at the people they have fooled. They are all about getting power.

[MANative]

106. And money. I doubt that there are even ten percent of Congressional reps who aren't...

millionaires.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

104. I think very few believe it all.

I think grifters realized early on that they could make easy money in politics by playing the chumps. Heck, I think Eddie Murphy even did a movie along those lines - a con artist who runs for office on name recognition of a highly popular Congressman who dies unexpectedly with the same name.

And people are so desperate that they're willing to believe all sorts of lies in hopes somebody, somewhere is telling the truth and will help make their lives better.

[MANative]

107. And they aren't smart enough (by design) to know that every policy they...

support is actually destroying their lives, word by word.

[RKP5637]

108. IMO it started with a few spouting crazy to get the votes as they rose to the top, but more and

more now just plain crazy is rising toward the top, because the less crazy paved the way. Throughout history powerful crazy leaders have killed millions and destroyed untold lives present and future. And, as this occurs, the US is descending further and further into Idiocracy ... it's now contagious. Hence, they have now become a serious impediment to the future enlightenment of the US and untold millions. IMO, they are the worst terrorists the US faces.

[MANative]

109. I wish I could say that I disagree, but I fear you are only too right. :(

[Orsino]

110. No, they aren't crazy.

They've learned, however, how useful the crazy is to their corporate masters, and how to get paid for promulgating it. You'd find them sane enough, were the easy money cut off.

They would remain weasels willing to sell out their fellows for nickels.

[MANative]

111. So, the mission, then, must be to find a way to cut the money out. I think, however, that ...

the money has now cemented itself into the process and perverted it beyond recognition.

[Orsino]

112. +1

Private money and democracy are mutually exclusive.