General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy is the right wing so crazy now?
It seems that conservatives are committed to stupidity. Consider environmental policy for example. Pollution is economically inefficient, so policies to restrain pollution generate a net increase in economic welfare. Those policies might also distribute the net increase away from the rich, but the cap-and-trade approach to environmental policy was carefully designed by bourgeois free market economists to reserve most of the benefits to the wealthy proprietors of the businesses regulated. That was why both parties supported cap-and-trade before 2008. The same is true of Romneycare. Why, then, do the political agents of the rich oppose those policies and pretend that the problems they address do not exist at all, despite evidence and the thinking of their own economists and scientists? Is it racism, just because our President is Obama? Well not exactly.
The basic division of power in our society is between the billionaire class and the working class. On the basis of a simple head count, that looks bad for the billionaire class. The working class are the huge majority. Why then do the billionaires not just get rid of democracy? The alternative, strong-man government, has proved again and again to be worse for the billionaire class, probably because the rich are the tall poppies. Their only hope is divide and rule. But this is a strong hope, since the very size of the working-class majority leads to divisions within the working class. The purpose of conservative politics is to keep the working class divided, so that the billionaire class continue to hold the balance of power.
Racism, over the long term, has been the most useful issue for the division of the working class. In the nineteenth century, when people of color were still a very weak group in a political sense, conservative support for the rights of freedmen was a means of increasing the effective division between black and white workers; as the power of people of color grew, support of conservatives for white supremism became more strategic. There is no logical connection between free-market conservatism and racism as a matter of logic they are opposed but an alliance between them is strategic for the political power of the rich. This is also the purpose of social conservatism, which, as a matter of logic, seems to oppose both free markets and racism. But alliance with social conservatives makes strategic sense for the billionaire class. An implication is that social conservatives are not meant to win. So long as LGBT rights were a means of dividing the working class, conservatives resisted them seriously but when they were no longer divisive, the resistance to them vanished like morning mist. A key advantage of these strategic issues is that the billionaire class has no economic interest in either side, and so pays no cost for supporting or opposing them.
So-called free market economics functions much like a secular religion in this political web. A difference is that, in most applications, free markets are in the interest of the billionaire class. In cases such as cap-and-trade and Romneycare, exceptions can be made. But the religious devotion to free markets, like other religions, does not admit of exceptions. Thus, conservative opposition to these policies has become a useful issue for division of the working class; but it does have a cost for the billionaire class. This, I think, has a lot to do with the disarray within the Republican Party.
More generally, the divisiveness of our political system, which everyone deplores, exists for a reason. The reason is that divisiveness is in the interest of the billionaire class. Make of that what you will.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Conservatives to take the opposing position, which makes them constantly wrong on the issues. For example, we say raise minimum wage, so they come back with abolish the minimum wage. Their hate for Liberals forces them into taking the asshole side of every issue.
Gun control? Guns for all! Expand healthcare? Repeal healthcare! Protect the environment? Drill baby drill! Eat healthy? Chickfila! Voting rights? Voter suppression! You get the idea.
Us being on the right side of every issue has forced conservatives to be on the wrong side of every issue.
rogerashton
(3,920 posts)the point is to divide the working class. Gun rights are an instance. By the way, it is not clear to me that "liberal is correct" is quite the story here -- I advocate very strict gun control, but I do think a reasonable case can be made to protect the rights of individuals to own some firearms for self-protection. My niece, who is a tenured faculty member in religious studies, disagrees with my position on guns. But that's just the point -- it is another way to divide the working class.
Even if you are right, this point-by-point opposition to the fact-based liberal positions needs to be explained. Dividing the working class is the explanation, I submit.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Liberals tend to make rational evaluations based on facts and evidence rather than "faith" or "belief" and are open to new ideas that emerge from greater knowledge of the world as it is.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Ie, right wing. So there is no place on the spectrum for Republicans to go other than batshit crazy right wing.
I think as a party we need to move much further left and give the Republicans some room to moderate a bit.
appalachiablue
(41,177 posts)way to the right, no where to go, hence the rabid fervor. Move left to give them room absolutely, if they will. Their followers are very worked up and brainwashed by now though. Please keep communicating this POV.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)less horrific is pure fantasia. I also think it is pretty hyperbolic to declare that resistance to LGBT rights 'vanished like the morning mist' considering there is no national marriage equality, no Federal protection from employment discrimination and 29 States that fully allow it, a steady stream of bills designed to allow refusal of services, daily hateful and slur laced diatribes from politicians and political clergy, hundreds of bias motivated crimes against LGBT people each year including murders....that's one hell of a morning mist you got there. For something that has 'vanished' it seems persistent, consistent, loud, clear and obviously present.
Here is a link to Pat Buchanan's 1992 RNC keynote speech. Read it then tell me the right wing was not crazy then. Not just now, but always....
http://buchanan.org/blog/1992-republican-national-convention-speech-148
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)moderate and even liberal Republicans. I do recall when it wasn't a 24/7 horror show from them.
rogerashton
(3,920 posts)at least from the know-nothings -- but they have become more important to the billionaire class as other wedges to divide the working class have become weaker or less dependable. In particular, the suburban "patrimonial middle class" is no longer a reliable ally of the billionaire class.
treestar
(82,383 posts)in the 1980s.
appalachiablue
(41,177 posts)rogerashton
(3,920 posts)yes, "morning mist" was hyperbolic. But the enemies of LGBT rights are clearly on the retreat. The suddenness of this change has been widely remarked. Why was such a rapid change possible? I submit: because the billionaire class has no economic interest in suppression of LGTB rights. Their interest in it was an is purely strategic, as a means of maintaining their alliance with social conservatives and so dividing the working class.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)at all sudden, it took years and years of difficult work on many levels, the change was not rapid, it's just that you paid scant attention to things that did not concern your interests.
I take great issue with this current stream of crap that suggests LGBT rights have nothing to do with economic issues. It always seems to come paired with 'Reagan Republicans were really good' materials.
In the bulk of this country, it is perfectly legal to discriminate against LGBT people in employment, these laws are in place because of the straight community, who are currently seeking extended ability to discriminate in the providing of services. I offer that the verbiage straight people make use of should be chosen with care. The various forms of bias against various minority groups pillages billions from said groups in ways privileged members of the majority do not even seem to think about. One of the main reasons to have any form of discrimination is for economic advantage. To claim otherwise is absurd.
Bigoted laws have fleeced LGBT in taxation, in denied benefits, in the many disadvantages that come from being denied marriage rights, employment protection and recourse.
You are telling me that extending benefits to same sex spouses was without cost? You want to tell me that the expense was not the primary reason they formerly denied such benefits? Really?
rogerashton
(3,920 posts)it was not in the interest of the billionaire class. In the interest of some of their small-business allies, maybe. If you could replace your rancor with some evidence, I am prepared to be persuaded.
rogerashton
(3,920 posts)that "third-degree" discrimination -- that is, discrimination between identifiable groups -- can increase the profit margin. In that case, both or all of the employee groups lose, but to different degrees. The ones that lose most have the smaller "elasticity of supply," that is, fewer and worse alternatives. Perhaps LGTB folks were the ones with fewer choices and thus who lost the most. I would be interested in seeing some evidence, though. In the application to people of color the argument is a little clearer, in that it is more clear that the choices available to people of color were limited by racism.
This would give the billionaire class an economic interest in discrimination, if it is true. But notice that profitable discrimination (according to this theory) arises from divisions among the working class. That is: it tells us that the billionaire class has an economic interest, in addition to its political interest, in dividing the working class. I don't doubt that that is true, in general.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)RKP5637
(67,112 posts)exists for a reason. The reason is that divisiveness is in the interest of the billionaire class."
Too bad so many Americans just can't comprehend how well they are manipulated to vote in their own worst interest!
Takket
(21,634 posts)they care about nothing but themselves and what improves their own quality of life. and if that means taking millions from big oil to look the other way while they destroy the planet, well, that's too bad for the planet, but senator asshole is going to retire on an island
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)The war against terror
The war against drugs
The war against the poor
The war against women
When you live and breath hate all the time it's bound to have an adverse effect on your brain.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)rogerashton
(3,920 posts)In fact, stupidity is an obstacle to greed -- a really greedy rat bastard would do his best to be a very smart rat bastard. I'm exactly talking about: why are they stupid greedy rat bastards?
n2doc
(47,953 posts)I made the mistake of turning the radio to Michael "savage" Wiener this morning. Just one long spew of hate towards Obama, Hillary, and Democrats in general. No facts, just lies and stories presented as facts. And every time I have listened to any of the RW nut cases they all sound the same. I think they try to one up each other in their made up stories about how Obama is destroying our country. Funny, country doesn't seem destroyed, or even worse off than a few years ago, to me. But then I actually pay attention to the real, not the made up.
rogerashton
(3,920 posts)And I'm saying that the people who pay the bills have a pretty clear idea how they benefit from it, through creating political divisions among the working class.
appalachiablue
(41,177 posts)was going to get sick in the car or have to pull over- Obama the Islamo-fascist, lazy, liberal hippie bookstore clerks, fatties on welfare. And the callers we not ignorant, southern but seemed middle class, from NJ, TX all over if they are authentic. Unreal.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)They are just much better funded and louder now.
Combine the know-nothingism, nationalism and greed/corporatist tilt that have always been hallmarks of any rightist movement with the powerful catalyst of imbecile fundymentalpatient religulousness and it makes for a singularly toxic and destructive brew. Sell this shit 24/7/365 through the corporate media and it's no wonder that this is, hands down, the dumbest and craziest developed country on earth.
rogerashton
(3,920 posts)Point is: who is paying their bills, and why.
appalachiablue
(41,177 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)intellectual inanities. While I have been trained to shy away from explanations that rely upon the "Great Man" theories of history, I trace a lot of the blame to Reagan and Lee Atwater and their heirs. When you play to people's prejudices and bigotry, you eventually reap what you sow.
appalachiablue
(41,177 posts)It exists in families, work groups, military combat, whatever and it's timeless. I've heard the same tired, progressive ban on what is deemed 'the great man theory' for some time. Dogmatic with some, it's become a worn out cliché that I don't fully buy anymore. Meaning all must be non-hierarchial, bland, drone group followers empty of color and energy. People absolutely stand out, possess exceptional talent, intelligence, gifts and skills. It's recognizable even in daily life. Although uncommon, it's very inspiring and motivating when you're around it. GW, Lincoln, Gen. Chamberlain, Mother Jones, FDR, Walter Reuther, JFK, MLK, Belafonte, LBJ, Mario Cuomo, teachers and bosses I know, family members, mangers, workers, military squads and so many others all have it. (I despised Reagan, the obvious old phony con and was horrified, in shock when he won and at the Inaugural in '81 in DC where I was at the time).
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)communities, & all groupings not controlled by the ruling class.
phantom power
(25,966 posts)Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-on-the-tea-party-20100928#ixzz3V9jDSX4C
I think part of the reason they're increasingly nuts is that they don't have a sane framework for the world as it is. It's as if the world is a round room, and the conservative movement is implicitly telling them every day that they need to go sit in a corner.
appalachiablue
(41,177 posts)elleng
(131,149 posts)Cable, social media make conveying points of view easier and more profligate, and add $$$, and there we have it, a broken 'system.'
Johonny
(20,890 posts)and the conscious decision of conservatives to take over AM radio that was looking for an economic savor, and then finally FOXnews coupled to produce an echo chamber of stupid. One can say Republicans have always been crazy, but not this crazy. Republicans used to vote for lifting the debt ceiling, infrastructure spending, clean air and water, scientific research. It is hard to imagine the military telling Ike that Climate change in threat scenario planning was observed to be critical to understanding current global conflicts and having Ike tell them to stop fucking using climate change. It used to be that conservatives considered themselves the "smart" Republican that understood what was BS to tell the voters and what was real. Today after 30 years of steady bullshit all that is left is the true believers. If you live your life inside the echo chamber you can't understand that what you say sounds batshit crazy. You can watch smart people enter the echo chamber and quickly become jibbering self inflicted idiots. The thing is the echo chamber tell them they're geniuses and no one inside the echo chamber dare say otherwise.
karmaqueen
(714 posts)I really do think they believe that god is a white male republican. Faux news, and every radio show host say the same thing and rewards their insanity with babble of how wonderful they are compared to the evil liberal. Even if they really do not believe as deeply as they say they say... they use "Jesus" as a powerful shield so the hatred they throw has a hard time hitting them back because they are "godly." These people are not Christians, not anything but hate mongers fueled by the Right wing media. Which has taken over just about everything...Some Democrats are actually afraid to be outward with their beliefs in some places because of the threat these radicals pose. I was in a thrift shop recently and there was a Dem shirt with a donkey.. 2 guys were looking and came across the shirt and one said to the other it would fit him.. And he asked if he was trying to get him shot..I also know many people who will not put a sticker on their car or a sign in their yard.. We are not dealing with rational political people who have a different view.. We are dealing with god warriors...
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Right wing BS. Conspiracy theories. Pseudoscientific nonsense.
It goes on and on.
rogerashton
(3,920 posts)To posts 26, 29, 29, 34:
Good morning! Thanks for posting.
But none really try to answer the question I posed.
There are loads of crazy ideas on the internet that do not influence national politics. Why does the establishment right promote these particular batshit crazy ideas? And conversely, while certainly the citizens united decision has opened the floodgates of money, why does it flow in the crazy directions it does, on the right? My answer is that it goes to the crazy antiscience ideas that best divide the working class.