OU student Joe Mixon punched a female student so hard that he fractured her facial bones in four places,

[Nye Bevan]

and was not expelled. Or even suspended for a single day. No, his punishment was to be cut from the football team for the rest of the season.

Oh, and the whole incident was captured on video.

Freshman running back Joe Mixon, who was suspended from the Oklahoma football program for the 2014 season after he was charged with a misdemeanor for punching a female student, has rejoined the team, Sooners running backs coach Cale Gundy told reporters Wednesday.

"He made a split-second and wrong decision, and he knows that," Gundy said during Oklahoma's signing day news conference. "He is a super, super kid. And I use the term 'kid' because he still is like a kid. He's still very young."

Mixon, who was the gem of Oklahoma's 2014 signing class, entered an Alford plea in his misdemeanor assault case Oct. 30, and agreed to perform 100 hours of community service and undergo counseling. Surveillance video showed Mixon punching the student, who police said suffered several fractures to her face and had to be treated at Norman Regional Hospital.

Mixon was allowed to remain in school but wasn't allowed to participate in any team activities.

http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=12281851&src=desktop

Not defending the frat boys who sung the despicably racist song, but in the light of this, perhaps instant expulsion was too severe a punishment?

[Logical]

1. This is MUCH worse! nt

[snooper2]

2. I guess they left out the part where the drunk asshole pushed him then slapped him in the face first

Just FYI for others....

I see to remember something similar happening on a train in NYC recently and no charges filed-

[whathehell]

11. A slap deserves a face full of broken bones?

Not where I come from.

[snooper2]

19. no, just want all the facts out there though...

If a female on a University Tennis Team got pushed by some random guy in a bar, then smacked in the face.

And then she knocked him out on the floor and broke his nose I'm sure the cheers would be loud and clear-
(you go girl! don't take that abuse!)

[prayin4rain]

77. Is she more than 50% larger than him? n/t

[Orrex]

92. Why do you ask?

Is a person free to attack a larger person and then cry foul when that person retaliates?

[prayin4rain]

94. Nope, large football players should do whatever they

can to break bones, permanently disable, etc. any man, woman, or child who pushes or slaps them. The largest most violent should reign supreme, of course.

[Orrex]

97. Is that your view? Because it sure as hell isn't mine.

snooper made a valid point in reply # 19, which you seem to have ignored even though you replied to it.

Just so we're all on the same page, please tell us which forms of assault are acceptable and which are not. Based on Reply # 11, you seem ok with women slapping men; at any rate you haven't articulated what constitutes an appropriate response by the victim in such a case. Then, in Reply # 77, you made the victim's response contingent upon the relative sizes of the parties involved. I would be interested to learn what, exactly, you think the standards should be.

Can a small man slap a large woman and claim assault when she responds?

Not long ago, DU had an extensive thread about a woman convicted of assault for breaking a man's nose after he'd allegedly grabbed her ass in a bar. I say "allegedly" because he was not charged. A sizable number of DU'ers praised the woman for defending herself, even though she inflicted injury disproportionate to the injury that she suffered.

In current case, a man is being faulted for doing much the same thing as the woman in the previous case. Is this a double standard? Why or why not?

[prayin4rain]

98. I didn't write post 11.

In any case, meeting pushing, slapping, or other touching with a disproportionate degree of violence is not appropriate. If a person feels genuinely threatened by the touching, then their reaction may or may not be disproportionate.

The only credible source that I've seen says a small weaker person pushed a much stronger person and then stronger person broke smaller person's face. That is not acceptable.

[Orrex]

99. What consequences are acceptable for the person who strikes first?

[prayin4rain]

100. Misdemeanor assault charges? I don't know criminal law

very well, but whatever charge is appropriate for pushing someone without causing injury.

[Orrex]

101. Fair enough.

My general view is that the response should be proportionate to the attack that elicited it.

In this case, you're probably right about the misdemeanor for her (waived, I should hope), while he should also be charged appropriately for his over-the-top response.

[prayin4rain]

104. Agreed. I think each party who resorts to violence

should be charged accordingly in relation to the degree that they inflicted violence on another. A jury can sort out if the person who seemed to act disproportionately had a genuine fear for their safety that can explain the extreme reaction. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

[Anansi1171]

107. Ask Trayvon Martin that question. -nt

[Orrex]

108. Good point--maybe we should ask his multiply-arrested murderer?

[Mr Dixon]

90. Agreed

Agreed yet still sad

[whathehell]

114. The cheers in the bar might support her

but a court of law wouldn't, especially if she caused actual physical damage.

[phil89]

105. If you attack someone physically

you don't get to control their reaction. It's not ok to hit, regardless of gender

[prayin4rain]

112. What a breathtakingly dangerous philosophy.

An eye for a....... blow your f-ing head off? ....because a person does not get to control another's reaction. A broken face for a push. Get beat up? Kill them and their whole family because they don't get to control your reaction. Bomb a US embassy and we'll nuke the entire continent because they don't get to control our reaction. OBVIOUSLY people must be expected to react in a reasonable manner in a civilized society.

A hundred pound person should not have their face broken for pushing a two hundred pound football player and causing zero injury.

[whathehell]

115. Thank you.

[whathehell]

113. The courts, I'm afraid, don't see it that way

Which doesn't mean it was "okay" for the girl to hit the guy

but responding to a slap by breaking bones with a closed fist

is hardly an equitable response and a court of law WILL impose

harsher penalties on anyone who does that.

[MineralMan]

15. And I wonder what caused her to do that?

Do you know? The appropriate response would have been to turn and walk away, not to punch her in the face.

So, do you have a link to the story that includes your information?

[snooper2]

18. sure...video for ya-

[MineralMan]

26. I saw that video, but the actual video has

never been released.

[snooper2]

28. nope, and I watched a follow up with the girl who slapped him...she doesn't want it released

of course....but said it wasn't up to her-

[MineralMan]

31. In any case, the response wasn't appropriate for the

situation as described. He pleaded out on the assault charge, and got community service. I assume it was all discussed and a plea deal arranged. The young woman wasn't charged.

Now, I've never been pushed and slapped by a woman, but if I had been, I'd have simply turned and walked away. I wouldn't have broken her face with a full-on punch. Nope.

[snooper2]

34. agreed...but it does shed a little different light on the story, as you see posters down below

already ASS U ME 'ing "he beat his girlfriend up"

[MineralMan]

37. That's why I Googled it.

Still, punching a woman for slapping you is a chump move. He'd have had to punch me next, had I witnessed it. A closed-fist punch to the face is a pretty serious thing. Way over the top here, regardless of the circumstances, frankly.

But nothing good happens in a bar after 2 AM.

[liberalhistorian]

40. So because she slapped him,

he gets to break her facial bones and get away with it and that's just perfectly fine with you? Am I understanding you correctly?

[snooper2]

45. Did you happen to read #19 or do you just do the even numbered replies?

[liberalhistorian]

47. Do you always talk to women in such

condescending tones, or is it only on here?

For the record, regarding #19, I would not approve of the woman breaking the man's nose and would not be one of the cheerleaders in that case. Is that what you wanted to hear? And one really has nothing to do with the other. A push and a slap does not equal breaking facial bones. Especially when he could have just exercised some self-control and walked away.

[snooper2]

48. No, and No, and Yes, and Yes

[liberalhistorian]

49. Yes and yes to what?

I only asked two questions, not four.

[snooper2]

50. I was agreeing with statements

A push and a slap does not equal breaking facial bones.

Especially when he could have just exercised some self-control and walked away.

[liberalhistorian]

51. Okay,

that's a bit clearer to understand.

[LanternWaste]

43. A slap, eh?

A slap, eh?

[lumberjack_jeff]

72. Of course his reaction wasn't measured or appropriate.

Nevertheless, like the Rice video, it shows what IPV research shows again and again and again. If we want to reduce injury to women, we should change our approach. Nothing indicates that either Molitor or Palmer would have been injured were it not for their initiation of the violence.

Every boy grows up hearing the message: don't hit girls.

If we want to improve IPV statistics it's time to start teaching girls the reverse; don't hit boys.

[MineralMan]

73. Nobody should hit anybody, of course.

Breaking someone's face over a slap, however, should result in punishment. It did in this case. I've never been slapped by a woman. There's a reason for that. I've also never hit anyone, man or woman. I've never been in any situation where that might occur. That's intentional.

A slap should never result in broken face bones. Period.

[Mr Dixon]

91. Agreed

Point taken

[stevenleser]

75. Are you referring to the 8-ball jacket guy who slapped the girl after she and her friends ganged up

on him?

That was a completely one-sided incident, and he did not punch the girl or break any bones.

There is a big difference between a punch and a slap. He still shouldn't have done it and he admitted that in a public interview. Still, not the same as shattering someone's face.

[prayin4rain]

79. Huh???

http://kfor.com/2015/02/20/judge-the-mixon-assault-video-will-not-be-released-to-the-public/

[Arkana]

93. Janay Rice slapped Ray first too.

Didn't give him the right to fucking Clubber Lang her in an elevator.

[hlthe2b]

3. No, this one should have been a criminal assault case...

and handled by the judicial system, not the university. I see nothing but apples and (battered) oranges comprison.

[Nye Bevan]

5. So he should not have been suspended from playing football?

The university actually treated him too harshly?

OK.

[hlthe2b]

12. One has no bearing on the other... He should have faced legal charges in the justice system

What the university chose to do is a separate issue.

But, clearly you ARE trying to defend the racists in this thread--your protestations to the contrary.

[B2G]

13. He DID face legal charges

http://www.news9.com/story/26306692/ous-joe-mixon-arraigned-ordered-to-turn-self-in

[hlthe2b]

16. Oklahoma style justice, apparently... Noted.

I'm not impressed, B2G. Hopefully you aren't either.

[B2G]

21. I am simply pointing out that the was referred to the courts

Various accounts also have the young woman and her boyfriend hurling racial slurs at him prior to the altercation and the security camera shows her pushing and slapping him prior to the blow.

I wasn't there, but it does sound to me like there were extenuating circumstances. I will trust the judge on this one.

[woolldog]

84. There you go again bringing facts into the discussion.

He was provoked. People (male or female) should not expect that they can initiate physical violence against someone and hurl fighting words at someone and expect that someone to just sit there and take it.

[Hekate]

7. +1

[B2G]

9. It was

He received a plea deal.

[cali]

4. no, instant expulsion was NOT too severe a punishment and this fuck should

have been expelled to.

And how in hell was he only charged with a misdemeanor?

[Initech]

30. Because... Football.

[liberalhistorian]

41. Yup! Sadly, I

think you nailed it perfectly. Sigh.

[NaturalHigh]

87. Probably because she used a racial slur and slapped him first.

[marble falls]

89. Both students need sanctioning. The video meeds to be made public....

that said he might well have killed her with that punch. His response was way out of proportion to what happened to him first. Both students need instruction about what assault is.

[whathehell]

6. I can't believe this violent criminal wasn't expelled..

It's certainly at least as hideous as the actions of the fraternity.

Breaking his girlfriend's face in four places was deemed a misdemeanor assault?

[snooper2]

24. Glad to see you have all the facts!

[whathehell]

33. Glad to see you're okay with face breakers!

[snooper2]

35. nope, but you didn't read my posts obviously

Point to where I said what he did was just fine and dandy...

[whathehell]

36. Guess no one else did, either

Since most here seem far more supportive of my view than yours.

[snooper2]

38. um, sure...

[whathehell]

39. um, right.

[mythology]

67. The popularity of a position isn't related to the correctness of the position

Look at the public opinion on same sex marriage even 10 years ago. Look at the popularity of the second Iraq war.

[whathehell]

71. Sometimes it is, sometimes not..

This time it is.

[prayin4rain]

81. http://kfor.com/2015/02/20/judge-the-mixon-assault-video-will-not-be-released-to-the-public/

[tblue37]

56. Not his girlfriend. She was a stranger. nt

[whathehell]

58. His relationship to her is irrelevant. He committed a violent crime.

[tblue37]

60. I know. I was just correcting an apparent confusion between this incident and

the punch Ray Rice threw at his girlfriend.

[whathehell]

61. Okay. nt

[NaturalHigh]

88. She wasn't his girlfriend.

She used a racial slur to Mixon and his friends, and she slapped Mixon.

[whathehell]

95. I got that.

[Blue_Tires]

8. Wow...if you're going in that direction, at least go all the way

and find a drug-dealing/serial rapist/armed robber/etc. college athlete who stayed on his team....There are hundreds of those...

[tularetom]

29. Here's one that assaulted a female student, stole crab legs and received football's highest honor

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/21/jameis-winston-hearing-cleared_n_6364142.html

And he'll probably go first in the NFL draft later this year and wind up making bazillions of dollars in the pros.He may not fit all your criteria but he's definitely a creep.

[Comrade Grumpy]

52. Funny, your link says he was cleared on that assault.

From your link:

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -- Florida State quarterback Jameis Winston was cleared Sunday of the accusations he faced at a student code of conduct hearing involving an alleged sexual assault two years ago.

Former Florida Supreme Court Justice Major Harding wrote in a letter to Winston that the evidence was "insufficient to satisfy the burden of proof." Prosecutor Willie Meggs made a similar decision a year ago when he decided not to criminally charge Winston, citing a lack of evidence.

<snip>

Florida State president John Thrasher said the university selected the former state Supreme Court justice to remove any doubt about the integrity of the process.

"He (Harding) conducted a thorough Student Conduct Code hearing and reviewed more than 1,000 pages of evidence generated by three other investigations, and we would like to thank him sincerely for his service," Thrasher said.

Harding wrote that both sides' version of the events had strengths and weaknesses, but he did not find the credibility of one "substantially stronger than the other."

"In sum, the preponderance of the evidence has not shown that you are responsible for any of the charged violations of the Code," Harding wrote.

<snip>

[tularetom]

64. He was, after a phony baloney "investigation" that's still controversial

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jameis-winston.html?_r=0

[Comrade Grumpy]

69. The last investigation occurred months after the article you just cited.

At some point, you have to say "Maybe he didn't do it."

[4139]

10. Did it happen on campus or off campus??

It would make the difference

[geek tragedy]

14. his lack of suspension didn't threaten the university's federal funding per the civil rights act.

The university had a positive obligation to come down hard on the Jim Crow frat.

[Bluenorthwest]

17. It's sports, he's an athlete, there are no rules for athletes, just license and impunity.

In the world of sports, the fans like you more if you do horrible things to women, kids and animals. After a light 'punishment' the athlete is given a raise, a rousing cheer and opportunities to do more harm. Go team.

[bluedigger]

20. If finding reasons to mitigate their suspension isn't coming to their defense, I don't know what is.

[tenderfoot]

32. Defending them is exactly what he's doing....

Good catch.

[Octafish]

22. Sometimes people who get punched in the face that hard never get up again.

The "super, super kid" should be in jail.

[Vattel]

63. You are 100% correct. We put pot smokers in jail but not this asshole. Amazing.

[Octafish]

68. Kid at a Michigan high school was punched so hard in a school brawl...

Prosecutors said his brain stem separated from his cerebellum when he hit the concrete.

The kid lasted a few years on life-support, but then passed away.

http://www.michigandaily.com/content/manslaughter-charge-ensues-after-death-comatose-patient

For what? The kid was the wrong religion or race or some stuff that doesn't matter. The kid who did the punching partly killed his own life, but he'll get out of jail one day.

[B2G]

23. And if she called him the n word, spat on him,

pushed and then slapped him before he decked her, would that make the tiniest difference?

[cali]

27. no. and should not make any difference. He seriously harmed her. she did not harm him

[liberalhistorian]

42. No. He still had options other than

breaking her face. Like some self-control.

[Lochloosa]

46. No. That happened to me. Except being call the n word. Wouldn't have fit.

You know what I did. I turned to one of her friends and told her to make sure she gets home safe and walked out of the bar.

That is how you handle that situation.

[mythology]

66. Nope

The correct answer is to walk away. She wasn't a threat to do him harm. Getting slapped sucks, getting your face broken sucks a lot more.

Let her karma come back to her for being a hateful bigot if that's what she is.

[Nye Bevan]

74. Well yes, in that case of course then she would deserve to have multiple facial bones fractured

by a reproving punch in the face.

[prayin4rain]

80. Oh, wait ... she INSULTED him??? Kill the bitch. n/t

[NCTraveler]

111. Should make a huge difference.

She should also be charged.

[Sheepshank]

44. Perhaps OU admin was responding in part because of the increasing racial tensions, nationally?

The Frat seems to have rubbed salt in a pretty nasty wound.
just a thought.

[Wella]

83. So let me get this straight about the racial calculus:

1. a black athlete breaks facial bones of a white girl--no explusion
2. white fraternity members sing a song using the n-word--expulsion for all concerned

Do I have that correct?

[Sheepshank]

96. oh, so we are comparing what one race did what to another race as if all are equal?

what a bunch of crap. They are not comparable and each should be punished on it's own merits without comparison.

what I am refering to is the eons of years where black people have been treated like crap. The PD is shooting black people in much much larger percentages that white people, incarerating them in larger numbers, on death row in larger numbers, racism is at an ugly high, Obama is dealing with it on the public stage, and the tension of disrespect, badgering, and putting down are at a boiling point on the nation scene. Perhaps it was time time that the rich white boys realized the harm they were perpetuating. The football player's action again the one girl was heinous. But it is it's own case and the comparison to the Frat house issue is not a comparison at all. The Frat House pigs were perpetuating a narrative that hurts a wider population and did nothing to heal national racial tension. Your pentulant statement does exactly the same thing, IMHO.

[still_one]

53. It should have been a felony. I hope they sue his ass in a civiltrial

[Vattel]

54. Campuses need to take the safety of their students seriously.

This applies to sexual assault and assaults like the one here. The asshole Mixon should have been expelled. If he had been a professor he would have been fired for sure. But God forbid some dumbass violent dickhead athlete should suffer the consequences of his actions.

[gollygee]

55. This is a criminal act and should be handled by the courts, not the school

the other was a school behavior issue and not a criminal act, and should be handled by the school.

[Nye Bevan]

59. So the school should not have suspended him from the football team? (nt)

[gollygee]

70. The school can have a policy that someone who commits a felony can't play football

or attend or whatever, but the school isn't the main source of punishment here.

[Starry Messenger]

62. Or maybe OU needs to get its fucking shit together.

Just a thought.

[seabeyond]

65. or... crimes against our girls is near irrelevant. as we have seen repeatedy.

i hardly see lowering the bar any further to be the answer. do you?

[stevenleser]

76. FYI all - Interview with the girl who was hit...

[stevenleser]

78. Also - An interesting article on the subject

http://newsok.com/joe-mixon-video-sad-bad/article/5338705

[melman]

82. Read the comments on that article

Disturbing.

[B Calm]

85. That coach saying he is a super, super kid is what blows me away.

[redgreenandblue]

86. Do I understand this correctly? He was charged with a misdemeanor rather than a felony because

legally she was the assailant after slapping him and the thing he was guilty of was using disproportionate force?

I have a hard time judging this event without any additional information.

Here's the thing: I trained martial arts in the past and one of my instructors always stressed the idea of using overwhelming force when being attacked.

There are a number of reasons for this: One of them is that you can never be sure how far a person, once they have made it clear that they are willing to enter a physical confrontation, is going to go. What starts as a slap can easily become being struck with a blunt object nearby and so on. Furthermore, you can never be sure that a person isn't concealing a weapon, there aren't multiple attackers you are unaware of, and so on. This is true in particular for smaller people who start fights with larger people.

What they hammered into our heads in all of my martial arts training is that a person never needs to risk physical harm to themselves to preserve the health of an attacker.

This being the theory. In real life I guess it all depends on the specifics of the encounter and one should always use best judgment.

And yet: I was once in situation where a visibly drunk man half a head shorter and probably 15 pounds lighter than me, who was accompanied by two friends, was starting to get violent with me. I was picked at random out of a crowd for no particular reason whatsoever. The encounter ended when a woman who was with me interfered by yelling at the guy.

Here's the thing: Even though the guy was smaller and weaker, he was holding a beer bottle and wearing a jacket under which there could easily have been a knife or a gun. And he was with two friends and we were in a crowd, so I wasn't sure there weren't more dudes around. Up until the point were the woman interfered I didn't respond in any form. Had he struck at me I would have blocked the first strike. Had he attempted a second one I would have punched him in the face as hard as I could and prepared myself to fight for my life against his friends, possibly reaching for the closest blunt object I can find.

So the ultimate question is: Should one respond in a different way when attacked by a woman rather than a man? Classic chivalry would say that one should never hit a woman under any circumstances. And sure enough: I think I couldn't bring myself to punch a woman, even if she was pounding my face with her fists.

On the other hand, again, during our martial arts sessions if you were sparring with a woman and decided to "go easy because she is a woman" you did so at your peril. It would seem that equality would demand that one approach women and men in the same way. And then of course there are lots of known cases of women who have become insanely violent (the recent video of the girls in Mc Donald's comes to mind).

That said, I hate the idea of anyone getting punched in the face. Also, I am only going by the article that was linked to and the comments in this thread so there is the possibility that I misunderstood the facts of this case. Flame away.

[stevenleser]

102. It seems so. (Your first sentence, assailant...disproportionate force)

The statements I've seen from prosecutors said that given the situation, they had a range of choices between calling it self defense by him (since she hit him first) all the way to felony assault and thus what they thought was fair was to split the difference and go for the charge that seemed to be "in the middle".

But they also said that they could see the arguments for the extreme ends of the choices too.

Another choice, IMHO, would have been to charge them both with the max of what their actions might have allowed. Charge her for assault and battery and charge him with aggravated battery. I can see the logic in that too. She shouldnt be hitting people, and he shouldn't have smashed her face in.

[morningfog]

103. How did I know that your story would involve a black student doing wrong.

So predictable.

[kwassa]

109. Isn't it predictable?

A man with an agenda.

[morningfog]

106. Nice attempted race-bait. But the two aren't comperable.

The racist students were suspended appropriately.

[Nye Bevan]

110. They weren't "suspended", they were expelled.

The guy who smashed the female student's face was suspended from the football team (for the remainder of the season) but not from the university.

[morningfog]

116. Do you think the racist chanters should not have been expelled?