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99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 02:55 PM Mar 2015

WTF? Obama Declares Venezuela A Threat To U.S. National Security? Really?

More sabre rattling from the WH? What's a progressive peacenik to think?

Obama Declares Venezuela A Threat To U.S. National Security
Reuters * 03/09/2015 * By Jeff Mason and Roberta Rampton

WASHINGTON, March 9 (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama issued an executive order on Monday declaring Venezuela a national security threat, sanctioning seven individuals and expressing concern about the Venezuelan government's treatment of political opponents.

"Venezuelan officials past and present who violate the human rights of Venezuelan citizens and engage in acts of public corruption will not be welcome here, and we now have the tools to block their assets and their use of U.S. financial systems," White House spokesman Josh Earnest said in a statement.

"We are deeply concerned by the Venezuelan government's efforts to escalate intimidation of its political opponents. Venezuela's problems cannot be solved by criminalizing dissent," he added.

The White House said the executive order targeted people whose actions undermined democratic processes or institutions, had committed acts of violence or abuse of human rights, were involved in prohibiting or penalizing freedom of expression, or were government officials involved in public corruption.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/09/obama-venezuela_n_6831890.html

140 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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WTF? Obama Declares Venezuela A Threat To U.S. National Security? Really? (Original Post) 99th_Monkey Mar 2015 OP
Sounds like an appropriate response to the actions of Maduro's regime. tritsofme Mar 2015 #1
Sounds like an appropriate response to the actions of US police state RobertEarl Mar 2015 #54
They keep thwarting our coup attempts. bananas Mar 2015 #67
Yeah RobertEarl Mar 2015 #75
I'm pretty sure if when he ran for President he knew Aerows Mar 2015 #94
Probabaly so RobertEarl Mar 2015 #96
I honestly Aerows Mar 2015 #97
We dont have a police state here, yet. But where we do have issues with the police, NoJusticeNoPeace Mar 2015 #101
If you are not a 1%er RobertEarl Mar 2015 #109
Nonsense NoJusticeNoPeace Mar 2015 #110
nonsense ND-Dem Mar 2015 #125
You don't get it do you? RobertEarl Mar 2015 #126
the powerful maduro regime, with an economic might 2.5% of ours!!! be very afraid!!! ND-Dem Mar 2015 #106
Not afraid at all, I just commented that the sanction is appropriate tritsofme Mar 2015 #123
did they assist the plotters in a coup against us or something? oh, wait, that was us...against ND-Dem Mar 2015 #124
if you want to violate the human rights of Venezuelans Man from Pickens Mar 2015 #2
lol dissentient Mar 2015 #3
Only 7, listed below. Let us know which ones you think were wrongly targeted. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #7
Let us know which ones are a threat to US national security. nt Comrade Grumpy Mar 2015 #29
All of them. They've all enriched themselves on the backs of Venezuelans, and put assets msanthrope Mar 2015 #34
Please. That's pathetically weak. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2015 #37
Given the acts done against journalists and opposition figures, including sexual msanthrope Mar 2015 #40
I agree. Please proceed. Aerows Mar 2015 #74
Why would you bring President Bill Clinton into this? nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #78
Oh. Aerows Mar 2015 #79
You do understand that these people are considered directly responsible for their actions in msanthrope Mar 2015 #81
I made my point. Aerows Mar 2015 #84
Oh, you made a point all right....... msanthrope Mar 2015 #86
The man is a FREAKING GENIUS Aerows Mar 2015 #87
Oh and ... Aerows Mar 2015 #88
+1,000,000 countryjake Mar 2015 #92
Thanks, CJ Aerows Mar 2015 #98
stashing their dirty money here supposedly endangers us.... ND-Dem Mar 2015 #129
Interesting. We target Venezuelan politcians but recognize the head of Saudi intel as Ambassador leveymg Mar 2015 #38
Like I said.....I agree Saudi Arabia should have the same legislation. msanthrope Mar 2015 #42
thank you elehhhhna Mar 2015 #63
I guess the US felt it had to retaliate against Maduro's stupid rhetoric geek tragedy Mar 2015 #4
Implementation of 2014 legislation that targets 7 individuals. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #11
Meh. Such legislation doesn't exist regarding Saudi Arabia. nt geek tragedy Mar 2015 #12
It should. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #14
But never will nt geek tragedy Mar 2015 #21
Unlikely.....unless we get a dream Congress or they run out of oil. But I'm still pretty good msanthrope Mar 2015 #22
Also anyone using the notion of Our Oil might want to remember we are running out of room to store Rex Mar 2015 #58
"the fear is that might not be us" Aerows Mar 2015 #91
He was a bus driver & trade unionist most of his life. What's so 'corporate' about him? ND-Dem Mar 2015 #131
Are there any corresponding Saudi Arabian miscreants would be the question treestar Mar 2015 #112
No. we get more oil from canada than from SA: more than 100% more. we used to get about ND-Dem Mar 2015 #134
or against at least a dozen other 'allies' ND-Dem Mar 2015 #127
There's less hope for Saudi Arabia treestar Mar 2015 #113
That Obama, he must just hate people. Or perhaps it's more nuanced than it appears at first glance. randome Mar 2015 #5
The E.O. implements the Venezuela Defense of Human Rights and Civil Society Act of 2014..... msanthrope Mar 2015 #9
Do you want to explain the nuance behind this? leveymg Mar 2015 #39
No, other than what msanthrope has posted. randome Mar 2015 #59
"More New Cold War on the way." Maybe they are getting out in front of it first. Rex Mar 2015 #62
Sigh--the E.O. is a targeted implementation of the 2014 legislation passed by Congress...... msanthrope Mar 2015 #6
Fuck those guys. JaneyVee Mar 2015 #77
When do we sanction the NYPD, the Ferguson PD, etc? Comrade Grumpy Mar 2015 #107
Obama Declares America A Threat To U.S. National Security. nt bananas Mar 2015 #114
And the Banksters, too. nt bananas Mar 2015 #115
Don't go getting sanctimonious now... n/t Scootaloo Mar 2015 #128
Not to mention Bibi! n/t markpkessinger Mar 2015 #130
or dozens of US allies with similar or worse records than venzuela? the "list" is a joke. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #132
OFAC SDN Link JustAnotherGen Apr 2015 #140
Let me check............ LittleBlue Mar 2015 #8
It targets 7 individuals---listed above. Tell us which one you think has been wrongly targeted. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #10
You won't get an answer... SidDithers Mar 2015 #16
Post 17 LittleBlue Mar 2015 #19
I note no one wants to discuss the 7 actually targeted.......nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #31
I note no one can say how Venezuela is a threat to the national security of the US. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2015 #90
It appears he said those 7 people are, not "Venezuela." treestar Mar 2015 #116
+100. they put money in our banks! oh no! ND-Dem Mar 2015 #133
When does the Saudi royal family make it on that list LittleBlue Mar 2015 #17
I hope they make it tomorrow. Elect a Congress that will do it. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #20
LMAO. No congress will do it LittleBlue Mar 2015 #23
You know, I'm pretty good with those 7 miscreants not being able to do business in the United States msanthrope Mar 2015 #25
I would be fine with it if our reasons were pure LittleBlue Mar 2015 #35
Maybe none of those individuals treestar Mar 2015 #117
If this were the only thing we've done to make life difficult for the Venezuelan gov't, it might be leveymg Mar 2015 #41
I'm sure you'll tell us which of the 7 is wrongly targeted. nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #43
Everyone of them. Bad people isn't not the same as posing a threat to our national security. TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #99
you keep asking that, but I think you're missing the point.... mike_c Mar 2015 #104
I've given you the 7 individuals targeted by the EO which implements an Act of Congress. Can you msanthrope Mar 2015 #13
Crickets.. they'd rather just be outraged .. not get into the pesky details. Cha Mar 2015 #121
That's outrageous! elias49 Mar 2015 #15
The President, following the laws of Congress, enacts an EO that targets 7 individuals? msanthrope Mar 2015 #18
In itself, pfft. In the context of more than a decade of destabilization, it's another step toward leveymg Mar 2015 #44
Again......look at that list of 7 individuals. Tell me which one you think msanthrope Mar 2015 #46
As I said, State Dept, is playing tit-for-tat. But, your question isn't really relevant to the leveymg Mar 2015 #64
Two reasons, OPEC and Russia. Rex Mar 2015 #70
This is nothing like when Bush does it! Doctor_J Mar 2015 #24
There are 7 individuals targeted, listed above, pursuant to 2014 legislation. Can you tell me msanthrope Mar 2015 #27
The question doesn't deserve an answer. Nobody answered it. The bigger US policy is the problem. leveymg Mar 2015 #45
Who is the "we" in the "We'll be glad to engage"? COLGATE4 Mar 2015 #76
That's between me and the mouse on my desk. ;-) leveymg Mar 2015 #80
Any and every state that practices socialism is a threat to the American way of life. Scuba Mar 2015 #26
There are 7 targeted individuals listed above..why would you call what they practice "socialism?" nt msanthrope Mar 2015 #30
It's redistributionist. Doesn't give back enough to Exxon-Mobil Corp. leveymg Mar 2015 #49
Especially ones with oil Doctor_J Mar 2015 #47
Oil. Octafish Mar 2015 #28
Nah, I thought about that...we are about to run out of room for our own supply. Rex Mar 2015 #50
More than Saudi Arabia, and it's closer, and isn't defended by suicide bombers. leveymg Mar 2015 #51
Maybe to drive the prices UP? Shell and BP say thanks. bahrbearian Mar 2015 #89
War works to put a crimp in the hose... Octafish Mar 2015 #102
Washington Office on Latin America (WOLA) responds negatively. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2015 #32
Council on Hemispheric Affairs says this is stupid and counterproductive. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2015 #33
I thought ISIS was the big threat TBF Mar 2015 #36
I doubt they're truly a threat--it's more that they have to have national security TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #52
The new guy ain't no Hugo Chavez. Rex Mar 2015 #48
That's what they're counting on in Foggy Bottom and Langley. leveymg Mar 2015 #55
No we've been fighting socialism from gaining a hold on consumers. Rex Mar 2015 #56
Chavez died of cancer. leveymg Mar 2015 #61
Sorry but since CIA head William Casey 'died from cancer' at a very convenient time for the Reagan WH Rex Mar 2015 #66
Oh! That is true about Casey, particularly the timing. Same thing with the Shah's ultimate demise. leveymg Mar 2015 #69
Always have been as far as I know. Rex Mar 2015 #72
On the other hand, as you know, it's a curse to have to figure things out for yourself. leveymg Mar 2015 #82
Yes and the procrastination that sets in at times can be killer. Rex Mar 2015 #83
Took a "working vacation" from this place last year. leveymg Mar 2015 #85
I noticed that. johnnyreb Mar 2015 #95
That was fortuitous, yes? elias49 Mar 2015 #108
Any sovereign state that stands up to the US bully is a threat malaise Mar 2015 #53
I always thought we were going to give up being World Police in the next century. Rex Mar 2015 #57
All empires eventually self destruct malaise Mar 2015 #65
But some last a thousand years, which is a long time in human years. Rex Mar 2015 #68
Oh, I'd say we've learned a lot. Marr Mar 2015 #103
You know you have a point malaise Mar 2015 #120
How do the 7 individuals named "stand up to the US bully?" treestar Mar 2015 #118
what *are* their actions, exactly, especially the ones that threaten our national security? ND-Dem Mar 2015 #135
OK, defend these people treestar Mar 2015 #139
sure ... CountAllVotes Mar 2015 #60
hmm. It's a big late to try to relaunch the Monroe Doctrine. BainsBane Mar 2015 #71
It's merely a formality. Maedhros Mar 2015 #73
I think the Republicans in Congress are a greater threat... fadedrose Mar 2015 #93
+100 nt 99th_Monkey Mar 2015 #100
us economy: 16.8 trillion. Vz: 438 billion. Yes, indeedy, Vz is soooo threatening with its ND-Dem Mar 2015 #105
Finally ...someone else realizes that accordions from Venezuela are ruining the US polka scene. L0oniX Mar 2015 #111
lol. i thought you were kidding but there really is a venezuelan polka scene. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #136
Fear the terrorist polka! L0oniX Mar 2015 #137
aeeeiiiii!! ND-Dem Mar 2015 #138
In other words, Venezuela refuses capitalist ownership of its government and people, Zorra Mar 2015 #119
What's With Obama on this? KoKo Mar 2015 #122
 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
54. Sounds like an appropriate response to the actions of US police state
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:57 PM
Mar 2015

There, I fixed it for you. We have a mess in the US and now we threaten other countries? WTF?

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
75. Yeah
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:35 PM
Mar 2015

What I don't get is why Obama is allowing the RW to determine foreign policy in the WH.

May be Obama feels he has to give them something to chew on to keep them from eating the furniture?

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
94. I'm pretty sure if when he ran for President he knew
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 05:53 PM
Mar 2015

how much "stop chewing the furniture" interference he would have to run, he would have said "Screw it, I'm going to become a carpenter".

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
96. Probabaly so
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 06:14 PM
Mar 2015

Like he said about his daughters the other day and their likely political future lives: They won't. They listen to their mother.

I think Obama is blessed to have such a partner as Michelle (who wouldn't be?) and I think she has seen even more than Barack has of the ankle-biters in DC.

Bill Clinton got chewed on and what has he done? What has Al Gore done? We know what Carter has done.... became a carpenter!!

What Obama should do is to establish a new Peace Corps. Pull a Kennedy type historic move... maybe even adopt the Kucinich idea of a Department of Peace.

Stick it right in the eye of the RW and make them blindly stumble some more.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
97. I honestly
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 06:18 PM
Mar 2015

don't know how they have held it together. Republicans are determined to burn everything down like giant children, and reining them in is a full time job. Such a full time job that you barely get the opportunity to make progress.

But Republicans don't want progress, that much has become obvious since St. Reagan infested the White House and Congress.

NoJusticeNoPeace

(5,018 posts)
101. We dont have a police state here, yet. But where we do have issues with the police,
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 06:30 PM
Mar 2015

most of it is in minority neighborhoods.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
126. You don't get it do you?
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 08:13 PM
Mar 2015

How old are you? How much have you been around?

The 1% screws over the whole of society and feasts upon the environment for profits, and they skate. Or do you not think they have screwed over and stolen from nearly everyone?

You are in an economic minority if you are not a 1%er.

tritsofme

(17,380 posts)
123. Not afraid at all, I just commented that the sanction is appropriate
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 07:53 PM
Mar 2015

President Obama made the right call.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
124. did they assist the plotters in a coup against us or something? oh, wait, that was us...against
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 08:09 PM
Mar 2015

them....

 

Man from Pickens

(1,713 posts)
2. if you want to violate the human rights of Venezuelans
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 02:58 PM
Mar 2015

you have to do it all proper-like, and have it done in Guantanamo

or Chicago

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
34. All of them. They've all enriched themselves on the backs of Venezuelans, and put assets
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:33 PM
Mar 2015

here.

Should we allow them to carve out safe havens for themselves in American banks and companies? Should we allow them, and their families to travel here freely?

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
37. Please. That's pathetically weak.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:35 PM
Mar 2015

Traveling here or putting money in our banks threatens our security? You've got to be kidding.

Sanction them if you wish, but this national security threat talk is unadulterated bullshit.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
40. Given the acts done against journalists and opposition figures, including sexual
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:42 PM
Mar 2015

assault......you really think these are people who should be allowed to travel here?

Please proceed.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
79. Oh.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:48 PM
Mar 2015

I see you missed the "guilt by association" is popular addendum.

I guess if it is a familiarly used tactic that provides absolutely nothing to any discussion except to derail it, one would miss it.

And yes, I do see the irony here.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
81. You do understand that these people are considered directly responsible for their actions in
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:57 PM
Mar 2015

ordering and committing suppression, right?

Perhaps you could look at the list and tell me who you think is wronged.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
84. I made my point.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 05:17 PM
Mar 2015

I'm not one to show up with a dull blade and an empty toolbox when I intend to make one.

You and I frequently disagree. I actually *appreciate* that about you, msanthrope, but make no mistake, we do disagree on many matters and methods.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
86. Oh, you made a point all right.......
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 05:25 PM
Mar 2015

On a side note.....Eduardo Castro must have had a great season, dressing Maleficient and Regina.....

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
87. The man is a FREAKING GENIUS
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 05:29 PM
Mar 2015

I just cannot look at the things he has pulled off and say he is anything but amazing.

If I ever became Queen of the World™, I want him to be in charge of my wardrobe.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
129. stashing their dirty money here supposedly endangers us....
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 08:16 PM
Mar 2015

and maduro, the ex-bus driver, is supposedly waaaay dirtier than the descendants of the house of saud, rulers of arabia since the 1740s.

yeah.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
38. Interesting. We target Venezuelan politcians but recognize the head of Saudi intel as Ambassador
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:37 PM
Mar 2015

We are a strange country where money can buy anything, including wars, and even active supporters of terrorists are "too big to fail."

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
42. Like I said.....I agree Saudi Arabia should have the same legislation.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:43 PM
Mar 2015

But I'm perfectly fine with these seven people being on a list.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
4. I guess the US felt it had to retaliate against Maduro's stupid rhetoric
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:00 PM
Mar 2015

with some stupid rhetoric of their own.

Meh.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
22. Unlikely.....unless we get a dream Congress or they run out of oil. But I'm still pretty good
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:19 PM
Mar 2015

with those 7 miscreants making the list.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
58. Also anyone using the notion of Our Oil might want to remember we are running out of room to store
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:07 PM
Mar 2015

the stuff we make HERE! The new leader of Venezuela is no Hugo Chavez. He is very corporate and that means he can be bought by 'foreign investors' and the fear is that might not be us.



 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
91. "the fear is that might not be us"
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 05:48 PM
Mar 2015

Which is the true complaint.

It is impossible for me to not notice that elephant in the room. I can look out the window and pretend it isn't there for the sake of going along to get along, but I will also notice when it takes a dump on the carpet.

I know who is going to have to clean it up.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
131. He was a bus driver & trade unionist most of his life. What's so 'corporate' about him?
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 08:37 PM
Mar 2015

Nicolás Maduro Moros born 23 November 1962:

He attended a public high school at the Liceo José Ávalos in El Valle, a working-class neighborhood on the western outskirts of Caracas.

After leaving school, Maduro found employment as a bus driver for many years.

He began his political career in the 1980s, by becoming an unofficial trade unionist representing the bus drivers of the Caracas Metro system. He was also employed as a bodyguard for José Vicente Rangel during Rangel's unsuccessful 1983 presidential campaign.

During the 1990s, Maduro was instrumental in founding the Movement of the Fifth Republic, which supported Hugo Chávez in his run for president in 1998.[6]

Maduro was elected on the MVR ticket to the Venezuelan Chamber of Deputies in 1998, to the National Constituent Assembly in 1999, and finally to the National Assembly in 2000, at all times representing the Capital District. The Assembly elected him as Speaker, a role he held from 2005 until 2006.

On 9 August 2006, Maduro was appointed Minister of Foreign Affairs.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicol%C3%A1s_Maduro

treestar

(82,383 posts)
112. Are there any corresponding Saudi Arabian miscreants would be the question
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 07:27 PM
Mar 2015

Saudi Arabia is so repressive over all that they hardly need to do anything new.

We get more oil from Venezuela than from the Middle East, if I recall correctly.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
134. No. we get more oil from canada than from SA: more than 100% more. we used to get about
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 08:58 PM
Mar 2015

the same amount from Vz and SA, but SA's been shipping more and Vz less since 2008.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_epc0_im0_mbblpd_a.htm

treestar

(82,383 posts)
113. There's less hope for Saudi Arabia
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 07:28 PM
Mar 2015

It hasn't ever been open; Venezuela has, so maybe people messing with that are the ones to go after.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
5. That Obama, he must just hate people. Or perhaps it's more nuanced than it appears at first glance.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:02 PM
Mar 2015

If I had to take a guess, I'd go with the latter.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Everything is a satellite to some other thing.[/center][/font][hr]

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
9. The E.O. implements the Venezuela Defense of Human Rights and Civil Society Act of 2014.....
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:06 PM
Mar 2015

Damn that Obama!!!! Following the law!!!

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
39. Do you want to explain the nuance behind this?
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:40 PM
Mar 2015

Frankly, this looks to be more tit-for-tat than anything else. Escalation, countermeasures. More New Cold War on the way.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
59. No, other than what msanthrope has posted.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:07 PM
Mar 2015

I don't need to become a foreign policy expert on the fly in order to make an educated evaluation of both the man and the result of the Executive Order.

Knowing that Venezuela is spiraling into disorder helps, too.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
62. "More New Cold War on the way." Maybe they are getting out in front of it first.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:10 PM
Mar 2015

I think with the Ukraine and Russia situation, a New Cold War is right around the corner. We are already playing mind games with Russia.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
6. Sigh--the E.O. is a targeted implementation of the 2014 legislation passed by Congress......
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:03 PM
Mar 2015

It targets 7 individuals-----you tell us which ones you are defending......




1. Antonio José Benavides Torres: Commander of the Strategic Region for the Integral Defense (REDI) of the Central Region of Venezuela’s Bolivarian National Armed Forces (FANB) and former Director of Operations for Venezuela’s Bolivarian National Guard (GNB).

•Benavides Torres is a former leader of the GNB, an entity whose members have engaged in significant acts of violence or conduct that constitutes a serious abuse or violation of human rights, including against persons involved in antigovernment protests in Venezuela in or since February 2014. In various cities in Venezuela, members of the GNB used force against peaceful protestors and journalists, including severe physical violence, sexual assault, and firearms.

2. Gustavo Enrique González López: Director General of Venezuela’s Bolivarian National Intelligence Service (SEBIN) and President of Venezuela’s Strategic Center of Security and Protection of the Homeland (CESPPA).

•González López is responsible for or complicit in, or responsible for ordering, controlling, or otherwise directing, or has participated in, directly or indirectly, significant acts of violence or conduct that constitutes a serious abuse or violation of human rights, including against persons involved in antigovernment protests in Venezuela in or since February 2014. As Director General of SEBIN, he was associated with the surveillance of Venezuelan government opposition leaders.

•Under the direction of González López, SEBIN has had a prominent role in the repressive actions against the civil population during the protests in Venezuela. In addition to causing numerous injuries, the personnel of SEBIN have committed hundreds of forced entries and extrajudicial detentions in Venezuela.


3. Justo José Noguera Pietri: President of the Venezuelan Corporation of Guayana (CVG), a state-owned entity, and former General Commander of Venezuela’s Bolivarian National Guard (GNB).

•Noguera Pietri is a former leader of the GNB, an entity whose members have engaged in significant acts of violence or conduct that constitutes a serious abuse or violation of human rights, including against persons involved in antigovernment protests in Venezuela in or since February 2014. In various cities in Venezuela, members of the GNB used excessive force to repress protestors and journalists, including severe physical violence, sexual assault, and firearms.


4. Katherine Nayarith Haringhton Padron: national level prosecutor of the 20th District Office of Venezuela’s Public Ministry.

•Haringhton Padron, in her capacity as a prosecutor, has charged several opposition members, including former National Assembly legislator Maria Corina Machado and, as of February 2015, Caracas Mayor Antonio Ledezma Diaz, with the crime of conspiracy related to alleged assassination/coup plots based on implausible - and in some cases fabricated - information. The evidence used in support of the charges against Machado and others was, at least in part, based on fraudulent emails.


5. Manuel Eduardo Pérez Urdaneta: Director of Venezuela’s Bolivarian National Police.

•Pérez Urdaneta is a current leader of the Bolivarian National Police, an entity whose members have engaged in significant acts of violence or conduct that constitutes a serious abuse or violation of human rights, including against persons involved in antigovernment protests in Venezuela in or since February 2014. For example, members of the National Police used severe physical force against peaceful protesters and journalists in various cities in Venezuela, including firing live ammunition.


6. Manuel Gregorio Bernal Martínez : Chief of the 31st Armored Brigade of Caracas of Venezuela’s Bolivarian Army and former Director General of Venezuela’s Bolivarian National Intelligence Service (SEBIN).

•Bernal Martínez was the head of SEBIN on February 12, 2014, when officials fired their weapons on protestors killing two individuals near the Attorney General’s Office.


7. Miguel Alcides Vivas Landino: Inspector General of Venezuela’s Bolivarian National Armed Forces (FANB) and former Commander of the Strategic Region for the Integral Defense (REDI) of the Andes Region of Venezuela’s Bolivarian National Armed Forces.

• Vivas Landino is responsible for or complicit in, or responsible for ordering, controlling, or otherwise directing, or has participated in, directly or indirectly, significant acts of violence or conduct that constitutes a serious abuse or violation of human rights, including against persons involved in antigovernment protests in Venezuela in or since February 2014.
 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
8. Let me check............
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:06 PM
Mar 2015

Yes, they have oil. No, it isn't controlled by us.

THREAT!!!!!!!!

(In b4 the government's rapid response team floods the thread with justifications)

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
10. It targets 7 individuals---listed above. Tell us which one you think has been wrongly targeted. nt
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:07 PM
Mar 2015

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
16. You won't get an answer...
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:13 PM
Mar 2015

the perpetually outraged will be too busy wiping the outrage spittle from their monitors, as they ramp up for another round of...



Sid

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
90. I note no one can say how Venezuela is a threat to the national security of the US.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 05:47 PM
Mar 2015

President Obama said it is. How?

Are the seven sanctioned really, really bad guys? Maybe.

Is Venezuela a threat to the national security of the US?

Oh, yeah. It tried to overthrow the elected government in Washington in a coup. Oh, wait. Got that backwards. Sorry.

Oh, yeah. It spent millions of dollars trying to subvert American democracy. Oh, wait. Got that backwards. Sorry.

But it's just the law of the land, you say. Did Obama attempt to veto that bill so he wouldn't be forced into uttering lies in order to punish Venezuela? I don't know. Do you?

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
17. When does the Saudi royal family make it on that list
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:15 PM
Mar 2015

Those 7 combined could never come close to equalling what King Abdullah, and his family members, did during his reign, and are still doing today.

No Chinese officials either.

Point is, our concern about human rights is largely political. If a smaller oil country plays ball, they can behead people in the streets. If they don't, like Venezuela, suddenly we are interested in human rights.

You know it, I know it, it's no secret to anyone.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
23. LMAO. No congress will do it
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:20 PM
Mar 2015

Because ...... they play ball!

Did you read what I wrote? Our concern isn't human rights, it's replacing those who won't cooperate (particularly on resource extraction) with those who will.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
25. You know, I'm pretty good with those 7 miscreants not being able to do business in the United States
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:24 PM
Mar 2015

or traveling here. Should Saudi Arabia have similar laws against it? Absolutely. But you don't stop the good because you didn't get the perfect.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
35. I would be fine with it if our reasons were pure
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:34 PM
Mar 2015

They're not. It's solely because they have immense oil reserves and they won't cooperate. Surely you feel just the slightest bit icky knowing the reality of why we punish Venezuela but not Saudi Arabia.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
117. Maybe none of those individuals
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 07:39 PM
Mar 2015

have done similar things. It's the individuals who are listed, not the countries.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
41. If this were the only thing we've done to make life difficult for the Venezuelan gov't, it might be
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:42 PM
Mar 2015

proportional to the recent order to reduce the US Embassy staff. Do I need to explain what I mean by that?

TheKentuckian

(25,026 posts)
99. Everyone of them. Bad people isn't not the same as posing a threat to our national security.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 06:24 PM
Mar 2015

What is that you think you posted about those seven that is a threat to the security of the people of the United States?

mike_c

(36,281 posts)
104. you keep asking that, but I think you're missing the point....
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 06:37 PM
Mar 2015

What makes these seven people national security threats to the U.S.? Are any of them targeting U.S. nationals? In what way? Are any of them operating in the U.S.? Are any of them conspiring against the U.S.? How? What is the national security threat HERE?

I'm not "defending" any of them. I'm wondering how they threaten my security in the United States.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
13. I've given you the 7 individuals targeted by the EO which implements an Act of Congress. Can you
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:12 PM
Mar 2015

please

1) Tell us which of the 7 is wrongly targeted, or,
2) Provide legal justification as to why the President should not follow the laws of Congress on this occasion?

Because, otherwise, it seems like the President is doing his job.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
18. The President, following the laws of Congress, enacts an EO that targets 7 individuals?
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:15 PM
Mar 2015

I've given the names of the targets upthread.....

who has been wrongly targeted?

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
44. In itself, pfft. In the context of more than a decade of destabilization, it's another step toward
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:45 PM
Mar 2015

regime change. These things don't just happen all at once, do they?

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
46. Again......look at that list of 7 individuals. Tell me which one you think
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:51 PM
Mar 2015

should not be targeted, or alternatively, is going to bring down Maduro's regime.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
64. As I said, State Dept, is playing tit-for-tat. But, your question isn't really relevant to the
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:12 PM
Mar 2015

larger question of why the US has been destabilizing Venezuela for more than a decade. Is it?

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
70. Two reasons, OPEC and Russia.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:18 PM
Mar 2015

Also the CIA never being able to stop fucking up other countries for whatever nefarious (but patriotic wink wink) purpose.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
24. This is nothing like when Bush does it!
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:21 PM
Mar 2015

Just like the continuation/escalation in the middle east is nothing like when Bush does it! This is way different! Venezuela could attack any minute!

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
27. There are 7 individuals targeted, listed above, pursuant to 2014 legislation. Can you tell me
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:26 PM
Mar 2015

1) Which individual is wrongly targeted, or,
2) Why the President should not follow the 2014 legislation?

Yeah--it is different from Bush. Here we have a President actually following the law.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
45. The question doesn't deserve an answer. Nobody answered it. The bigger US policy is the problem.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:48 PM
Mar 2015

We'll be glad to engage on that one.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
80. That's between me and the mouse on my desk. ;-)
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:53 PM
Mar 2015

The one in my pocket speaks Spanish, which I haven't completely mastered.

Hello, Sr. Speedy

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
26. Any and every state that practices socialism is a threat to the American way of life.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:25 PM
Mar 2015

At least according to the capitalists who own our government.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
30. There are 7 targeted individuals listed above..why would you call what they practice "socialism?" nt
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:27 PM
Mar 2015

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
49. It's redistributionist. Doesn't give back enough to Exxon-Mobil Corp.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:53 PM
Mar 2015

You are correct. Venezuela isn't Cuba - it has something we really want, other than nice beaches and classic American cars.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
47. Especially ones with oil
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:52 PM
Mar 2015

Last edited Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:50 PM - Edit history (1)

or other resources that God says belong to the US.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
50. Nah, I thought about that...we are about to run out of room for our own supply.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:54 PM
Mar 2015

I think this is tough talk aimed at a much bigger country (indirectly) that also has a defacto dictator. You have to admit the guy running Venezuela now ain't no Hugo Chavez.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
102. War works to put a crimp in the hose...
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 06:35 PM
Mar 2015

1967...
1973...
1991...
2003...
2015...

Multiplies the value of the oil's holders.



No wonder they can afford to give away such bling.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
32. Washington Office on Latin America (WOLA) responds negatively.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:30 PM
Mar 2015
http://venezuelablog.tumblr.com/

Executive Order on Venezuela: WOLA’s Response
WOLA Senior Fellow David Smilde Offers His Take on Targeted Sanctions

(Note: this post is adapted from a letter to the press. For the original, please visit: WOLA.org)

Today, President Obama released an Executive Order implementing and expanding targeted U.S. sanctions on seven Venezuelan individuals. WOLA’s Senior Fellow David Smilde is currently on the ground in Caracas, and issued the following quote in response to the announcement. Please feel free to use any parts of his quote in your reporting.

From Professor Smilde:

“The way to address the difficult human rights situation in Venezuela is through constructive multilateral efforts by allies in the region who are better positioned to engage the country. Unilateral U.S. sanctions, even targeted ones, will be counterproductive, especially when couched in the language of a ‘national emergency.’ These measures will only help Nicolas Maduro portray his country’s crisis as the result of a confrontation between Venezuela and the United States rather than a result of his failed policies.”

For more information on these ongoing regional efforts, please see this March 4 letter addressed to an UNASUR delegation that traveled to Venezuela over the weekend to address the situation there.

David Smilde, moderator of the blog, is a WOLA Senior Fellow and the Charles A. and Leo M. Favrot Professor of Human Relations at Tulane University. He has lived in or worked on Venezuela since 1992. He is co-editor of Venezuela's Bolivarian Democracy: Participation, Politics and Culture under Chávez (Duke 2011).
 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
33. Council on Hemispheric Affairs says this is stupid and counterproductive.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:32 PM
Mar 2015

Mods: This can be reprinted in whole. See last paragraph.

http://www.coha.org/the-council-on-hemispheric-affairs-opposes-u-s-intervention-in-venezuela-and-calls-for-a-resumption-of-full-diplomatic-relations-with-caracas/

THE COUNCIL ON HEMISPHERIC AFFAIRS OPPOSES U.S. INTERVENTION IN VENEZUELA AND CALLS FOR A RESUMPTION OF FULL DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS WITH CARACAS
February 26, 2015 · by COHA · in CELAC, United States, Venezuela
By: Larry Birns, Director of COHA, and COHA Senior Research Fellows Frederick B. Mills, Professor of Philosophy at Bowie State University, and Ronn Pineo, Professor and Chair, Department of History at Towson University

The Council on Hemispheric Affairs (COHA) urges the Obama administration to alter its course from its increasingly belligerent foreign policy towards the government of Venezuela to one of constructive exchange with Caracas. Despite the very tense present ties between the two hemispheric nations, President Nicolas Maduro remains open to a relationship of mutual respect with Washington. President Obama should consider reciprocating.

U.S. support for the right-wing opposition in Venezuela, most infamously during the 2002 coup attempt against then-president Hugo Chávez, has been extraordinarily counter-productive, providing legitimacy to President Maduro’s claims of continued U.S. meddling. The U.S. sanctions recently set into place against Venezuelan governmental leaders, and the continued U.S. financing of political groups and organizations in the Venezuelan opposition now have added fuel to strong anti-imperialist sentiments throughout the region.

The sanctions rightly earned the condemnation of the Community of Latin American and Caribbean Countries (CELAC), which have repudiated foreign interference in the internal affairs of Venezuela. This comes at a time when CELAC nations are re-examining their ties to the United States, looking at other options for trade and for arms supplies, and forging stronger economic and strategic links with China and Russia. The Obama Administration’s policies toward Caracas are harming U.S. interests in Venezuela and across the region.

The election of President Obama in 2008 had inspired an expectation in the region that the U.S. would abandon its Monroe Doctrine policies, which had led to the overthrow of democratically elected governments that had not met Washington’s ideological requirements. The U.S. was widely and correctly perceived in the region as having played a role in the disappearances, torture, and murders of political opponents of the 1970s and 1980s. But these were mainly crimes of prior presidents, and Obama had the chance to create new U.S. moral standing the region.

He failed. Despite repeated promises, Obama has yet to close Guantanamo. In 2009 the Obama administration supported a golpista regime that emerged after a coup against the democratically elected President of Honduras, Manuel Zelaya; this policy brought further dismay in the Americas. It constituted a return to Washington’s interventionist policies, carried out by Secretary of State Hilary Clinton, who supported the coup-driven government in Honduras in 2009. Even the usually timid Organization of American States condemned the coup and post-coup government. Disappointingly, the Obama administration’s intensification of the adversarial relationship with the Bolivarian revolution in Venezuela is fully consistent with this ill-conceived policy direction.

Since President Hugo Chavez’s first electoral victory in 1998, the U.S. has provided support for regime change in Caracas, funneling U.S. AID and National Endowment for Democracy funds to right-wing Venezuelan opposition organizations, with an additional $5.5 million proposed for FY 2016. The Bolivarian revolution had offended Washington officials at least in two key policy areas: the push back against neoliberalism and the leadership of the late President Hugo Chávez in the cause of Latin American independence and integration.

In April 2002 the U.S. provided de facto recognition for a short-lived coup regime that came to power by overthrowing the democratically elected Chávez government. During that coup all of Venezuela’s democratic institutions were suspended, including the National Assembly, the Supreme Court, and the Constitution. The head of the Venezuelan Federation of Chambers of Commerce (Fedecamaras), Pedro Carmona Estanga, claimed the presidency, a term in office that lasted two days. The coup was reversed by an unprecedented popular manifestation of support for the constitutional government and the deployment of the predominantly loyal Bolivarian Armed Forces.

Since that time, the U.S. has continued to support some of the same figures from the right-wing opposition that were involved in the deeply unpopular and anti-democratic coup attempt in 2002. Elements of the ultra-right are still bent on extra-constitutional regime change when democratic procedures do not go their way. However, this opposition is presently divided, lacks popular support, and does not present a viable democratic alternative to the elected constitutional government. The upcoming legislative elections present a legitimate means of increasing political influence on governance. In the face of ongoing attempts to overthrow the government, including terrorist attacks, assassinations, sabotage, coup plots and escalating U.S. hostility, the Bolivarian Armed Forces have made it very clear that they remain loyal to the Bolivarian Republic and will defend the constitutional order.

During the past decade the U.S. has indulged in episodic adversarial relations with one chosen foe or another that does not adhere to Washington’s enthusiasm for neoliberal economic principles, including Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Nicaragua, as well as Argentina. But from Athens to Caracas, there are a growing number of democracies that are calling the neoliberal model into question. On February 20, 2015, White House spokesman Josh Earnest, commenting on yet another round of possible sanctions against Caracas, said, “The Treasury Department and the State Department are closely monitoring this situation and are considering tools that may be available that can better steer the Venezuelan government in the direction that they believe they should be headed.” The Obama administration’s attempt to “steer” Caracas away from a project that has lifted millions of Venezuelans out of poverty, is a violation of that nation’s right to democratic self-determination and a menace to the 200-year old struggle by Latin America to gain authentic independence.

U.S. policy ought to engage in diplomatic and commercial relations with its southern neighbors based on respect for the diverse forms of governance to be found in the region, including left and left of center ones, rather than intransigent insistence on the adoption of the free market gospel. The U.S. would be well advised that the destruction of democratic institutions, however imperfect those institutions may be in Venezuela, risks setting loose a spiral of violence and death in a region that has pledged itself to establishing a zone of peace. Washington ought to immediately lift the outrageously smug and certainly arbitrary sanctions to cease any form of support for the ultra-right, provocative segment of the opposition, and begin the process of rapprochement with Caracas. It is still not too late for President Obama to arrive at the Summit of the Americas in Panama this April as a peace-maker, for if he continues with the current policies, he should expect to be coolly received by other democratic leaders in Latin America.

By: Larry Birns, Director of COHA, and COHA Senior Research Fellows Frederick B. Mills, Professor of Philosophy at Bowie State University, and Ronn Pineo, Professor and Chair, Department of History at Towson University

Please accept this article as a free contribution from COHA, but if re-posting, please afford authorial and institutional attribution. Exclusive rights can be negotiated. For additional news and analysis on Latin America, please go to: LatinNews.com and Rights Action.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
52. I doubt they're truly a threat--it's more that they have to have national security
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:55 PM
Mar 2015

invoked as an issue before we can impose sanctions.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
48. The new guy ain't no Hugo Chavez.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:52 PM
Mar 2015

Arresting reporters and detaining them sounds like something that only happens in this town called Ferguson, USA; but yeah it does happen in other places.

The leader of Venezuela basically like the leader of Ukraine, made himself the defacto dictator, er president.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
55. That's what they're counting on in Foggy Bottom and Langley.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 03:57 PM
Mar 2015

And both Chavez and Maduro were elected, like Salvador Allende. Bad precedents. But, we have been trying to protect people from democracy since Nixon, haven't we?

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
56. No we've been fighting socialism from gaining a hold on consumers.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:00 PM
Mar 2015

They might all get together and boycott or something. Yes both were elected, but did Chavez declare it best if he stay in power, 'for the good of the people'? Also, Maduro is much more likely to go along with corporate interests.

Probably why Chavez...you know...had to go away.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
61. Chavez died of cancer.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:09 PM
Mar 2015

That made him "go away." Maduro is with the same party, and was also elected. What makes you say Maduro is "much more likely to go along?"

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
66. Sorry but since CIA head William Casey 'died from cancer' at a very convenient time for the Reagan WH
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:13 PM
Mar 2015

I've been suspect of hearing that about political rivals. Kinda like Leaping Off Foggy Bottom for no apparent reason.

Yeah I got issues, learning about JFK fucked me up and Reagan just pushed me over the edge.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
69. Oh! That is true about Casey, particularly the timing. Same thing with the Shah's ultimate demise.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:17 PM
Mar 2015

There are probably a dozen other instances we can come up with where medical conditions have conveniently played into the game plan. I think we're reading from the same hymn book.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
72. Always have been as far as I know.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:26 PM
Mar 2015

Hard to pass that stuff up when you use critical thinking skills in everyday life and not just huge major decisions. I notice you do that too a lot. I think it is just habit for some of us, while others just merely exist. I do have empathy for people like that.

Just imagine leveymg...the horror of just merely existing in your one shot (as far as we know) at life!? Never asking a single question or looking up at the star filled sky! Wondering, pondering, reflecting or even merely thinking outside the box? I pity people like that.

You know I might even be gutzy enough to add Saddam to that list...though he was going to go out eventually.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
82. On the other hand, as you know, it's a curse to have to figure things out for yourself.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:59 PM
Mar 2015

Takes time and energy from other things most people consider important in this world. But, there are many kinds of relative poverty, and I prefer the one I chose. Not really sure it was a choice or a curse. Any opinion on that?

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
83. Yes and the procrastination that sets in at times can be killer.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 05:03 PM
Mar 2015

Nope, I think I know exactly what you mean. Sounds like we are almost in the same boat.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
85. Took a "working vacation" from this place last year.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 05:22 PM
Mar 2015

Was trying to avoid distractions. Might do it again.

johnnyreb

(915 posts)
95. I noticed that.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 06:00 PM
Mar 2015

Seemed like some really good posts sunk, then you were gone awhile. It's good to break if you manage to get refreshed, but I'm some guy in South Carolina who is glad to see you around.

 

elias49

(4,259 posts)
108. That was fortuitous, yes?
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 06:43 PM
Mar 2015

I have this vague memory that he was out on a boating trip when he died. Is my mind going?

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
57. I always thought we were going to give up being World Police in the next century.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:04 PM
Mar 2015

Growing up, I figured eventually everyone would be so pissed off at us it would be easier to let the UN be World Police. Looks like empire made it into the next century...yay...

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
68. But some last a thousand years, which is a long time in human years.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:16 PM
Mar 2015

Humans DO learn, they just choose to do the wrong thing. They know what is right and wrong, but take the wrong thing out of whatever vice they secretly covet imo.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
103. Oh, I'd say we've learned a lot.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 06:36 PM
Mar 2015

The design of the US empire is pretty brilliant. It's glued together with debt, so it's all incredibly malleable and stealthy. The guns only come out when one of our fiefdoms doesn't play along.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
118. How do the 7 individuals named "stand up to the US bully?"
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 07:40 PM
Mar 2015

We are to approve their actions as "standing up to the US bully?"

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
135. what *are* their actions, exactly, especially the ones that threaten our national security?
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 09:08 PM
Mar 2015

all I've heard so far is they might put some money in our banking system.

oooh, scary....

CountAllVotes

(20,876 posts)
60. sure ...
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:08 PM
Mar 2015

Why not? Every other place out there is a likely suspect as well.

The War on Terrorism goes on and on and on and on and on and on .....

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
71. hmm. It's a big late to try to relaunch the Monroe Doctrine.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:20 PM
Mar 2015

That ship has sailed. The sun is setting on the US's Latin American empire.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
73. It's merely a formality.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 04:26 PM
Mar 2015

Now that the Colombian "Narco-Terrorists" are no longer in play, we need a placeholder in South America in case we want to throw our weight around down there.

fadedrose

(10,044 posts)
93. I think the Republicans in Congress are a greater threat...
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 05:50 PM
Mar 2015

If they screw up the Geneva talks, China, Russia, United Kingdom, Germany, and France will be mad enough to go to war with the United States...

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
105. us economy: 16.8 trillion. Vz: 438 billion. Yes, indeedy, Vz is soooo threatening with its
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 06:38 PM
Mar 2015

economy that's about 2.5% of ours.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
136. lol. i thought you were kidding but there really is a venezuelan polka scene.
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 09:12 PM
Mar 2015


Description:

The Venezuelan polka is a hall dance that has its origin in Europe at the beginning of the 19th century and arrived to Venezuela in the middle of that century.

Polka has not been recognized like a Venezuelan sort, but many composers have loaded it with Venezuelan characteristics. The bands that consolidated the polka at the end of the 19th century occupied to integrate in their repertoire these compositions, guaranteeing the life of the polka in the country.

For the time that arrived the polka to Venezuela, the hall dances constituted the most important entertainments for the ladies of the high society, which was organized by musical turns that were made up generally of waltzes, polka, danzas and other pieces like mazurca, were executed with a rhythmical character different from the European dances. In these hall dances although occur at the time that the social structure of the colony was conserved, attenuated the differences between white people, creole people and afro-Venezuelan people. These last ones accompanied the ladies to the dance, observing their steps and later practicing them. This attitude has been one of the reasons of the incorporation of polka and other sorts to the popular tradition.

The popular polka is cultivated fundamentally in center the west and the Andes, making it present in the instrumental ambient of popular dances and many traditional celebrations throughout Venezuela

http://pages.rediff.com/venezuelan-polka/1139414

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
119. In other words, Venezuela refuses capitalist ownership of its government and people,
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 07:41 PM
Mar 2015

and this makes them an enemy of the WTO that must be forced into compliance with the global economic program, cuz all that oil and cheap labor belongs to the global 1%.


For more information, see "History of Cuba".

The global power of the financial centers is so great, that they can afford not to worry about the political tendency of those who hold power in a nation, if the economic program (in other words, the role that nation has in the global economic megaprogram) remains unaltered. The financial disciplines impose themselves upon the different colors of the world political spectrum in regards to the government of any nation. he great world power can tolerate a leftist government in any part of the world, as long as the government does not take measures that go against the needs of the world financial centers. But in no way will it tolerate that an alternative economic, political and social organization consolidate. For the megapolitics, the national politics are dwarfed and submit to the dict ates of the financial centers. It will be this way until the dwarfs rebel . .

http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/mexico/ezln/1997/jigsaw.html

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
122. What's With Obama on this?
Mon Mar 9, 2015, 07:52 PM
Mar 2015

He Gives with One Hand and Takes Away with Another?

How could he go back to the NeoCon position on America Owning South America? He was seeming to do Good recently being cautious...but he now backtracks.

WHY?

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