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sheshe2

(83,875 posts)
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:10 AM Mar 2015

When your heating bill nearly gives you a heart attack.

I am from MA. We have been in a deep freeze for more than a month. I have gas heat now, I keep it turned low, I heat at 60-65 degrees. I usually turn it all the way down at night and only edge it up when I get home from work, yet it has been far to cold to do that now. I have to leave it on.

My bill floored me. It was twice what I paid last year. It is so damn cold. I was talking to a person at work that lives in a condo where I use to live. They are electric and I froze there while paying a huge price for heat. I asked him how bad it was now, made a guess what they paid to be cold. I was low in my estimate, his heat was more than his mortgage payment. Hello! Mass has is 4th in the highest rates.

Currently, Massachusetts has the fourth most expensive electricity based on a study done by the Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council. The state’s residents are paying between 17.5 and 22 cents for electricity and rates are supposed to continue to increase. Residential electricity costs in Massachusetts have doubled since 1990, with a majority of the increase happening after 2004. Other regions in the country have not been impacted as intensely because electricity generation isn’t tied to natural gas. This is a good indicator that Massachusetts needs better diversification of their energy portfolio to avoid rate increases. Investment in renewable energy choices, such as solar power, are a smart choice for the state and for residents who want to avoid spikes in energy prices.

Another reason why Massachusetts consumers are paying more for electricity is because they are using more. An increase in the variety of electronic devices has directly impacted resident’s bills. Ten years ago, few households had home computers, cell-phone chargers, DVD players or PlayStations. Even though most appliances these days are much more energy-efficient than in the past and people are more conscientious about turning off lights, the best way to pay less for your electricity bill is to start cutting usage.
[dclass="excerpt"]


We need solar and we need it now!
66 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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When your heating bill nearly gives you a heart attack. (Original Post) sheshe2 Mar 2015 OP
I'm in Mass... Agschmid Mar 2015 #1
I left the northeast almost 30 years GP6971 Mar 2015 #2
One of the weaknesses of solar power is heating in the middle of winter Electric Monk Mar 2015 #3
Usually not a problem. Grid tied net metering looks at the year's net usage and generation. NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #5
You're still using mostly the grid in the middle of winter, so you'd save very little. Electric Monk Mar 2015 #11
Not if the system is designed to produce enough during winter months. Trillo Mar 2015 #54
Germany is further north than Mass. aggiesal Mar 2015 #21
They do more solar than others, but it's still only about 6% of their energy use and most of their Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #40
I live in Western MA druidity33 Mar 2015 #34
I am in California, where it doesn't get down to ass-freezing REP Mar 2015 #56
I feel for ya, she.. brings back cold cold memories living at the base of the Adirondacks.. but, Cha Mar 2015 #4
Thanks Cha! sheshe2 Mar 2015 #44
Oh wow.. I didn't think about the whole Cha Mar 2015 #64
Depending upon where you live, there may be options to your .22/kWh rates. NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #6
Thanks for that SKP. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #45
Ah, gas, yes! NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #48
You have an electric mattress pad. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #52
Awesome! There's nothing like a down comforter, lots of layers. NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #53
Here's a warm hug for you Hekate Mar 2015 #7
Love you Hekate! sheshe2 Mar 2015 #46
I agree, we need solar... one_voice Mar 2015 #8
Stay warm one_voice~ sheshe2 Mar 2015 #47
Would solar do you any good? Seems like the panels would be covered in snow LeftyMom Mar 2015 #9
Sadly no, I rent. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #49
I'm an energy miser, all CFLs and LEDs and closed off rooms Warpy Mar 2015 #10
Wind would work wonders yeoman6987 Mar 2015 #19
Well, they don't just work offshore Warpy Mar 2015 #22
You are using more? catnhatnh Mar 2015 #12
Rates for Mass have risen dramatically, 37% in one year last November for National Grid. NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #13
I'm sorry catnhatnh Mar 2015 #14
I didn't know the utility company was blaming our owning more devices. NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #16
Agree--I live in MA and knew that rates were going up. I've been fairly aggressive in trying to MADem Mar 2015 #28
We do need solar that is for sure Kalidurga Mar 2015 #15
actually, we need nuclear. dolphinsandtuna Mar 2015 #17
This lynch mob member... catnhatnh Mar 2015 #18
You're welcome to take Florida's sun geomon666 Mar 2015 #20
I hear you BainsBane Mar 2015 #23
"I've noticed a lot of cold comes in through the windows." Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #26
I want to get thermal curtains BainsBane Mar 2015 #27
I've seen blankets and quilts used for heavy drapes.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #41
Mine are cellular shades BainsBane Mar 2015 #42
Yeah, those do block a lot of the drafts. Get some floor length drapes and you'll do okay. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #43
I used to use those window kits before I improved my windows--they aren't pretty but they work. MADem Mar 2015 #29
Before there were kits, we used clear plastice painter drop cloths bananas Mar 2015 #32
It works...and it lets the light in, which is important to some! nt MADem Mar 2015 #33
Yes they work well. This year we did bubble wrap on an especially cold bedroom. DebJ Mar 2015 #62
Natural gas is fairly cheap in Oregon bhikkhu Mar 2015 #24
Check to see if there's a funded insulation program in your area.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #25
Our bill has been going down every year for 3 years. ffr Mar 2015 #30
Just looked at my online avg electric usage ffr Mar 2015 #31
I use propane with the help of wood heat. I use around 200 gallons of gas per winter. B Calm Mar 2015 #35
I'm in NH and it's been a very expensive winter. Vinca Mar 2015 #36
NH here too... bunnies Mar 2015 #50
Are you living somewhere here in my house???? LOL. Vinca Mar 2015 #66
Alternative energy? YES. I also LWolf Mar 2015 #37
I wish I had answers for you, what we did madokie Mar 2015 #38
Solar in Mass is not going to help you. Yo_Mama Mar 2015 #39
Where are they at with wind in Mass, sheshe? ScreamingMeemie Mar 2015 #51
We got that going here, SM... sheshe2 Mar 2015 #55
Do you have a southern exposure for a solar thermal panel? (NOT talking about PV panels) NickB79 Mar 2015 #57
Thanks Nick. sheshe2 Mar 2015 #58
I pay under 6 cents for a kwh in ohio Travis_0004 Mar 2015 #59
We've spent $900 on heat in the last two weeks here in NH... bunnies Mar 2015 #60
I've always used wood burning stoves for heat. panader0 Mar 2015 #61
My goodness, the cost of a mortgage payment! That is horrendous! DebJ Mar 2015 #63
That's horrible laundry_queen Mar 2015 #65

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
1. I'm in Mass...
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:12 AM
Mar 2015

We have a Nest thermostat which has come in very handy this winter, really kept us aware of how efficient we were being. Still I'm sure the February bill will be high, the average is 40 and this year we barely broke freezing!

GP6971

(31,203 posts)
2. I left the northeast almost 30 years
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:17 AM
Mar 2015

ago and we were shocked when we saw our first utility bill. We live in the Pacific Northwest and it was about half of about we paid in Connecticut. Rates have increased since then, but I'm sure not anything you're seeing. The thing I really don't miss........having to call for home heating fuel deliveries.

 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
3. One of the weaknesses of solar power is heating in the middle of winter
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:24 AM
Mar 2015

because heating requires a really heavy draw of electricity (compared to, say, running a laptop or a few lights), and in the winter the days are also shorter with less direct sunlight because the sun is lower in the sky, even at high noon.

My parents have a smallish solar setup at their cottage, and it's great for summertime, running lights and fans and their laptop computer, but in the middle of winter it's almost useless, it recharges so slowly. Good thing in the winter they only use it for 2 or 3 days, then go home to the city while it re-charges for a month, then it's good for another few days, etc. In the summer it's fine for constant use.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
5. Usually not a problem. Grid tied net metering looks at the year's net usage and generation.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:28 AM
Mar 2015

Your point would only apply for a stand-alone solar photovoltaic system disconnected from the grid.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
54. Not if the system is designed to produce enough during winter months.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:00 PM
Mar 2015

Yes, that means you need a more square feet of cells.

aggiesal

(8,923 posts)
21. Germany is further north than Mass.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 02:20 AM
Mar 2015

Their government subsidized solar, and now they produce enough
electricity from solar that they will be decommissioning all their
nuclear power plants.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
40. They do more solar than others, but it's still only about 6% of their energy use and most of their
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:59 AM
Mar 2015

energy still comes from coal, oil and gas. They are increasing renewable sources (wind,solar, hydro, biomass) and currently get about 20% of their energy from renewable sources, a percentage that is increasing yearly and swiftly.
By comparison, the State of Oregon gets more than 70% through such sources and has no nukes at all.
Germany closed 8 of their 17 nuclear power plants after Fukushima and the rest are to be closed by 2022. They still use quite a bit of coal.

druidity33

(6,446 posts)
34. I live in Western MA
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 08:27 AM
Mar 2015

in a super efficient house. We have PV and Solar HW. The Solar HW is useless in the winter, but the PV does generate enough to decrease our bill. I usually pay no electric bill for 7 months out of the year, and in the end make a few dollars from quarterly checks from Solar Recs. Of course it's grid tied. Our biggest issue with that is that when the power goes out, so does the well pump. Someday when the battery technology gets there, we'll go off grid...

One way to solve their battery problem might be to have 2 batteries, in the winter charge one in the city and bring it to the cottage. But really, here in MA in a cottage, you should have a woodstove for heat. Better yet, a well designed Masonry Stove. A little Tulikivi is always nice... but hand built can be even nicer. Also, there are all sorts of programs in the area for Weatherizing/insulating/etc. The MassSave program paid for a friend's new refrigerator and gave him a 0% interest loan to have his attic/roof/windows insulated. His house is warmer/less drafty and he needs 30-40% less oil to heat during the heating season.

How big is the "smallish Solar setup" your folks have? Mine is rated at 3.2KW and was installed 8 years ago. It seems appropriately sized for a small 3 person household. Though we don't do broadcast TV and are out of the house during the day most days of the week... we do use computers and play music with amps (a big draw).


REP

(21,691 posts)
56. I am in California, where it doesn't get down to ass-freezing
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:14 PM
Mar 2015

But I have a radiant solar heating/cooling system that also runs my hot water heater. It uses very little electricity and the solar isn't for that; it's for heating the water in the radiant panels and the boiler. If it's been overcast for a week, we run both showers and the steam room and run a bunch of laundry on hot, then the propane kicks in as a backup. I don't think it happens much; I have my propane filled once a year and it's always been half or more full (we're all propane where I am, so I cook with it and it runs the backup generator).

So solar electric may not be everyone's answer, but hydrosolar heating can reduce the burden.

Cha

(297,574 posts)
4. I feel for ya, she.. brings back cold cold memories living at the base of the Adirondacks.. but,
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:26 AM
Mar 2015

you're doing now!

I never had my heat on at during the night, either and basically just heated my bedroom.. and would run fast from there to my bathroom where I could turn on a heated fan system.. and, I took a lot of hot baths. My landlady was always asking me why I used so much WATER in the Winter time!



http://cauldronsandcupcakes.com/2012/03/26/the-magic-of-an-epsom-salts-bath/

So sorry you have to pay so much to keep from freezing!


sheshe2

(83,875 posts)
44. Thanks Cha!
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:24 PM
Mar 2015

I love the bath pic.

I am lucky that I have gas instead of electric, yet it still doubled over last year due to my leaving it on when I normally would have had it on it's lowest setting. With no customers coming into the store because of the snow and frigid temps, I am taking a double hit. I work on commission and we have lost more than a month of pay.

The temps are coming up a bit, yet we get more snow tomorrow.

Luv ya Cha!

Cha

(297,574 posts)
64. Oh wow.. I didn't think about the whole
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 01:40 AM
Mar 2015

"working on commission" thing and the weather keeping people off the streets except for necessities!

"More snow"

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
6. Depending upon where you live, there may be options to your .22/kWh rates.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:29 AM
Mar 2015

If you send my your zip code by PM I can check rates and ways to save.

sheshe2

(83,875 posts)
45. Thanks for that SKP.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:34 PM
Mar 2015

You are always so very helpful. My heat is gas, thank the goddess, it use to be electric. My town is implementing a municipal aggregation program through which the town sought competitive bids from electric suppliers to provide power. I am good on that part. Yes my gas doubled from last year since we have had frigid temps for a month now. Not much I can do about that. Lol~ I wear lots of layers at home.

On the bright side we may see some daytime temps of 40 and 50 next week!!!! Yeah!!!!

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
48. Ah, gas, yes!
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:43 PM
Mar 2015

Well I'm sure there are a lot of actions you've taken and in the end dressing warm as possible and lots of blankets helps.

I use an electric mattress pad in lieu of having a warm house at night and it sounds like you already keep the settings as low as possible.

Looking for ways you might be losing heat might help, storm windows or plastic over your window with an air space in between can cut down on drafts-- more useful for older buildings with single glazed windows than with modern double or triple glazing. Thick draperies can help, too, and letting the sun in.

Finally, you can move out here with me and Millie dog!

sheshe2

(83,875 posts)
52. You have an electric mattress pad.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:54 PM
Mar 2015

I have the best down comforter ever! I bought a floor sample at work for absolutely nothing. Best one I ever owned.

My windows aren't bad, this is a Victorian apartment I rent. They have new windows, closets...yikes they are cold, I keep them shut as firmly as I can.

Love all your help...if and when I can afford to get out to California I will stop by to visit you and Millie. I have friends and family there.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
53. Awesome! There's nothing like a down comforter, lots of layers.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:59 PM
Mar 2015

And that's probably a lot more sustainable than electric anything.

But Millie is a tiny dog and doesn't give off nearly enough heat!

Come on out, any old time!

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
8. I agree, we need solar...
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:31 AM
Mar 2015

My electric bill was $500 this month. I was floored. My house isn't that big. The back of my house gets very warm from the sun, even in the winter. I have to leave my bedroom window cracked and the vents shut because it gets so warm in there.

The front of the house, that's another story.

I keep my heat at 67. I can't go any lower, I have a neuromuscular disorder and am very sensitive to the cold. My hands/arms/legs turn blue very easily.

I hope you guys start to see some moderating temps soon.

sheshe2

(83,875 posts)
47. Stay warm one_voice~
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:42 PM
Mar 2015

Please be careful. It has been an ugly winter, yet we may see 40-50 daytime temps next week. Wow, almost spring.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
9. Would solar do you any good? Seems like the panels would be covered in snow
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:31 AM
Mar 2015

and even if you kept them brushed off as best you could I can't imagine you're awash in sunlight?

I genuinely don't know. We complain bitterly here if the temperature drops below 40.

Warpy

(111,332 posts)
10. I'm an energy miser, all CFLs and LEDs and closed off rooms
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:32 AM
Mar 2015

I don't think the use of solid state electronic games with solid state LED TV screens can be pointed to as justification for rising rates. Increased floor space to be heated, cooled, and lit might, but nothing sucked energy more than a CRT TV set, tube radio, and non energy efficient refrigerator. My own bill came down when the reconditioned fridge finally died and I got an Energy Star model, so I know what a difference those old things made. The switch from fans to central AC also affected power use for a lot of people.

As for Mass, there is little in the way of water power and the nuke plants are getting close to the end of their useful lives, if they haven't been mothballed already. There are still oil fired plants up there and those are hideously expensive. The alternatives are between an environmental disaster from coal plants or expensive natural gas. Wind is being fought tooth and nail by NIMBYs and solar is limited in use there.

I'm afraid the best bet in Mass is to find wind designs the NIMBYs can live with, smaller and less noisy units. One thing Mass. has plenty of is wind, it's on a major storm track.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
19. Wind would work wonders
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 02:16 AM
Mar 2015

But the richies on Cape Code and other areas don't like the sight of them...boo hoo I say. They seem to be winning.

Warpy

(111,332 posts)
22. Well, they don't just work offshore
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 02:22 AM
Mar 2015

but complaints about noise are legitimate, I'm always surprised by how noisy the big towers can be.

catnhatnh

(8,976 posts)
12. You are using more?
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:41 AM
Mar 2015

"Ten years ago, few households had home computers, cell-phone chargers, DVD players or PlayStations."

Nintendo=70's
VHS recorders=70's
Home Computers=80's
Cell Phones 50% of homes=90's

Of course, meanwhile every major appliance has become more energy efficient and lighting has been transformed.

I think if your bill has doubled someone is lying. A lot.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
13. Rates for Mass have risen dramatically, 37% in one year last November for National Grid.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:44 AM
Mar 2015

It's not about more devices, it's about higher rates, first, and this cold spell, second.

That could double a monthly bill.

Nobody is lying, that's not a very nice thing to say.

catnhatnh

(8,976 posts)
14. I'm sorry
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:47 AM
Mar 2015

I meant the utility was lying. That's why I showed the introduction dates of the devices they blamed the increase on. I live in New England and damn well know how high the bills are.

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
16. I didn't know the utility company was blaming our owning more devices.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:59 AM
Mar 2015

That's crazy. And your dates are right, and we are likely using less per capita than in years past even with more devices, because of EPA energy star appliances, awareness of conservation measures, and etc.

But the rates go up nonetheless. http://www.necn.com/news/business/Massachusetts-Electric-Rates-Soar-277009371.html

I see them blaming the market, I'm on the West coast so don't follow energy trends there.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
28. Agree--I live in MA and knew that rates were going up. I've been fairly aggressive in trying to
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 03:45 AM
Mar 2015

reduce my electricity intake and even with conservation the bills are still higher this year.

When you get your electric bill, they give you a little graph that shows your usage over the last year--month to month. It's a real pissah to look at the graph, see you've used less, then look at what you paid and realize you're paying MORE for using less 12 months later.

I heat w/gas so I'm not getting socked quite as bad as those who rely on electric heat, but that's gone up too. The bargains (cough--relative term) are with those who use oil heat--they got a break this year.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
15. We do need solar that is for sure
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 01:56 AM
Mar 2015

we also need a new model for the way homes function. My daughter and I are going to be working on 3D model for some designs I have been working on. It won't be for everyone, but if every home adopted one or two features of what I have come up with the savings would be phenomenal.

Some examples

solar would provide a lot of energy, but most homes the size and amount of appliances would still mean they have to use bought electricity

so my model would also have an organic to methane gas converter

wind power generator

and a system for collecting and recycling grey water and collecting moisture from the atmosphere and rain water to replenish water lost in food production, evaporation, and cleaning.

I can only estimate the savings from extrapolation and averages on energy use, but it would be around 1500 dollars for a single person and a bit under 6000 for a family of four. Depending on the size of their home and what appliances they use.

 

dolphinsandtuna

(231 posts)
17. actually, we need nuclear.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 02:00 AM
Mar 2015

Solar can't possibly keep up. It's fine for part of the problem. But nuclear is the only way to have a chance to mitigate global warming. But the crowd lynch mob mentality is not likely to permit that.

My utility bill in RI last month was $600.

BainsBane

(53,056 posts)
23. I hear you
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 02:27 AM
Mar 2015

In MN we use natural gas, which is cheaper than electricity. Our heating needs are serious here. I do a few things to keep the cost down. In addition to turning the heat down to 58-60 at night and while I'm gone for more than an hour or two, I keep the blinds drawn. I've noticed a lot of cold comes in through the windows. I leave it at 67-68 when I'm home.

I'm in a new place and have had only two bills. One was $50 for five days! I started economizing in a hurry. The next was $98 for a whole month. I heat a small house built in 1914, but it does have central heating, which is unusual for a house that old.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
26. "I've noticed a lot of cold comes in through the windows."
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 03:31 AM
Mar 2015

Before they came out with those dual pane windows the Victorians used multiple panels of heavy drapes.



Even between rooms without doors to reduce drafts.



Make sure you pull back the drapes on the sunny side for free solar heat and keep your eyes open for Dracula.

BainsBane

(53,056 posts)
27. I want to get thermal curtains
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 03:36 AM
Mar 2015

Right now I just have blinds. I need to get the windows glazed or whatever it is to make them stop leaking so much heat. Here it's so cold, the sun isn't enough to make up for the cold that leaks through.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
41. I've seen blankets and quilts used for heavy drapes....
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:58 AM
Mar 2015

You can also try thumbtacking and/or taping up clear plastic drop cloth from the dollar store. I know someone who works nights who used some of their black plastic tablecloth on the windows of her bedroom. They also have bright yellow, blue and green that will cast the room in color when the sun hits them. You can use them in combination with curtains or blinds. The point is to layer. Even sheer panels will trap air and stop drafts and provide insulation.

Mini blinds are like the vent adjusters in a car's AC. You can aim the draft but not quite stop it.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
29. I used to use those window kits before I improved my windows--they aren't pretty but they work.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 03:49 AM
Mar 2015

They let the light in, too--that's important to people who don't like the dark days of winter.

bananas

(27,509 posts)
32. Before there were kits, we used clear plastice painter drop cloths
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 04:57 AM
Mar 2015

Cover the windows using clear plastic sheets and masking tape, the way you would if you were painting the walls.

http://www.amazon.com/Premier-Paint-Roller-69730-Plastic/dp/B000KKKXCU



DebJ

(7,699 posts)
62. Yes they work well. This year we did bubble wrap on an especially cold bedroom.
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 01:07 AM
Mar 2015

That helped a lot, and it goes up quick (my Dad had a huge roll in his garage, easy to snip, tear, mist window with water, stick on).

Our windows are in horrible shape. They really need replacing but DARN they are so expensive!

bhikkhu

(10,722 posts)
24. Natural gas is fairly cheap in Oregon
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 02:40 AM
Mar 2015

we're having another easy winter here, but typically its below zero many nights (living at 4000ft), and the heating bill is about $130 a month during winter, for our old brick uninsulated (except for the attic) house. I complain, but I know that's not much compared to al ot of places.

We have a nice fireplace we used to use regularly burning cordwood, but air quality regulations kicked in a few years ago and most really cold snaps are accompanied by "no-burn" periods. I'd complain about that too, but the air quality does get noticeably bad around houses burning wood.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
25. Check to see if there's a funded insulation program in your area....
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 03:21 AM
Mar 2015

Older homes are a pain in the ass to insulate with their lath and plaster walls and I HATE heating a home with a radiator system. (The idea of a steam boiler in the cellar exploding like in "The Shining".)

We got smart in Michigan and moved into the remodeled full cellar during the extreme freezes. We built three bedrooms and two baths down there and a den with a TV and a small kitchen. All heat was diverted to this underground realm and it was toasty down there.

ffr

(22,671 posts)
30. Our bill has been going down every year for 3 years.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 04:01 AM
Mar 2015

We're on 100% renewables this year for my electric too! Why so low? Take a guess.

Every day and every night, just about, is 7 - 15 degrees above normal for the season. We're in another drought and experiencing unusually high dry temperatures.

Our electric bill for January was $42.00, gas (heating) was $70. Single detached home, approx 2,700 sq/ft. It's a new home with south facing windows. The thermostat is set to bottom out at 57 degrees at night, but with the warmth built up inside during the day, it doesn't cycle on very often. You notice when it does.

It's suppose to drop below freezing tonight. So excited. We might even have frost outside in the morning on the pine trees.

My brother's home in SoCal has solar panels. His total electric bill for the year last year was ~$60 and his home is probably in the 4,000 sq/ft range, it's huge. He installed the panels as an investment. It was a smart move. The things were suppose to pay themselves off in their lifetime, which is like 20 - 30 years. But with rates going up on his energy use before the panels went in, it's down now to about 6 years to go before it's paid for itself (BEP).

ffr

(22,671 posts)
31. Just looked at my online avg electric usage
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 04:04 AM
Mar 2015

It's down 28% from last year. Gas usage is down 33%. That's how warm it is here year over year.

Vinca

(50,303 posts)
36. I'm in NH and it's been a very expensive winter.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 08:49 AM
Mar 2015

Our house was built in the late 1700's and is not as air tight as newer homes. Plus it's huge. We use a hodgepodge of heating sources to try to keep the cost down, but our electric bill, in particular, went over $300 a month for the first time ever in February. We have what is supposed to be energy efficient electric heat in one section of the house. In a normal winter we only turn it on a few times, but this winter it's been cranked up every day. Our saving grace is the Harmon pellet stove we bought years ago. The pellets come from a local producer in Jaffrey and they keep the house pretty toasty when it's above freezing and they're affordable. The price of oil has been down a little since previous winters. I'm beginning to think it wouldn't be a bad idea to sell and build a small solar house somewhere.

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
50. NH here too...
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:51 PM
Mar 2015

And we just purchased a house that sounds exactly like yours. Built in the late 1700's, huge, heating hodgepodge (oil, electric, pellets, wood stove and propane for hot water)... *sigh*. I got my first electric bill the other day. It was for 2 weeks, literally, and it was over $160.00!!! We've almost gone through a tank of oil in just over two weeks. AND we're using a bag of pellets a day. Not to mention the wood.

People keep telling me that this winter is unusual for everyone... but I feel so much better hearing it from someone in my situation. Mind you, the drafts in this house are crazy but our heat is at 63 and Ive only taken my coat off ONE time at night since we moved in. And here, the pellet stove is in an ell and not even the main house. Same with the wood stove. Another damn ell. Ive been freaking out thinking its gonna cost thousands a month to heat this place.

Great choice for a first house huh?

Vinca

(50,303 posts)
66. Are you living somewhere here in my house???? LOL.
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 08:45 AM
Mar 2015

I keep thinking back to the people who built this place and wonder how on earth they survived the winter. The original part of the house has 3 fireplaces, one with a beehive oven and an iron hook that swings out for cooking. Of course there was no insulation and single-pane windows without storms to add to the mix. There were no town snow plows so they would have been stuck for most of this winter. It's amazing when you think about it. (My next house will be 1200 - 1500 Sq. Ft. and have solar panels on the roof!)

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
37. Alternative energy? YES. I also
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 08:56 AM
Mar 2015

wish everyone had their power delivered, like I do, by a non-profit co-op. My co-op serves the rural areas around our local towns and cities. I pay much less than my friends and family in town do, and every few years I get a small refund. My rates are based on projected costs, with some padding to ensure stability, and every 2 years the excess is sent back to co-op members.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
38. I wish I had answers for you, what we did
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:05 AM
Mar 2015

two years ago we put in a mini-spit high efficiency heat pump/air conditioner. These heat pumps work all the way down to 5 degrees F unlike the old heat pumps that worked down to 35 degree F at best. In the winter of '90-'91 we bought our first wood pellet heating stove and have upgraded it twice in the years hence. What we have now is a Harman Advance. it is going to cost us at most 250 bucks to heat this winter. I'm in Northeast Oklahoma and we do have a lot of 40s through 50 degree days but we also have a lot of wind and a lot of days where the temperature drops in the teens and lower and nights where it gets bone chilling cold. We're old people so we keep the house at a minimum of 72 degree with most times around 74 to 75 degrees. I'm home all day so we keep the house these temperatures 24/7.
This heat pump uses a variable speed compressor so its running at the speed that it needs to do the job that the thermostat is telling it, not turning on and off like the old type did.
Anyways this all cost money but in the end it will save us mucho money. When we went to a wood pellet stove we were spending upwards of 1200 bucks a winter for propane and not really staying warm at that and the first pellet stove we paid 1000 bucks for it. It paid for itself in three winters and the savings keep piling up. The last time I put a pencil to it we were 7000 plus dollars to the good over using propane as heat. We don't have natural gas here or I'd be using that just because the convenience of it
The combination of the high efficiency heat pump and the wood pellet stove we're staying warm for a fraction of what my neighbors, friends and family pay out.
I wish this was an option for you.

ScreamingMeemie

(68,918 posts)
51. Where are they at with wind in Mass, sheshe?
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 09:54 PM
Mar 2015

I'm in Houston, TX, on 100% wind, and my summer (don't really use much more than 20 bucks/month in gas year round) electricity bill for cooling a 2500 s.f. house with a pool filter running 8 hours/day runs around $350/month.

sheshe2

(83,875 posts)
55. We got that going here, SM...
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:02 PM
Mar 2015
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_Massachusetts

The U.S. state of Massachusetts has vast wind energy resources onshore as well as offshore and the installed capacity has been growing in recent years due to a variety of regulatory actions and financial incentives enacted by the state government. Notable policies include a Renewable portfolio standard that requires 22% of the state's electricity to come from renewable sources by 2020 and a goal of installing 2,000 MW of wind power in the state by 2020.[1]

Read more at the link, this is the future, no matter how much people fight it.

NickB79

(19,258 posts)
57. Do you have a southern exposure for a solar thermal panel? (NOT talking about PV panels)
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:37 PM
Mar 2015




It appears they retail for around $2000, but are supposed to heat 1500 sq. ft.

I've also seen people build smaller ones themselves; I plan on building something like this for my chicken coop to keep my hens a little warmer next winter:


Eventually I plan on adding one of the SolarSheat commercial units to the southern side of our home to take the edge off our heating bill. Where we are in Minnesota, we typically see winter lows around -20F, and until the windbreak behind our house fills in more, we get hit by brutal north/northwest winds from the Dakotas and Canada that rattle the house in a blizzard. Right now we're about 50/50 between propane and wood in the Vermont Castings wood stove in the living room, with a little assistance from the space heater now and then.



I've gone entire weekends without hearing the furnace kick on even in the dead of winter, so long as I keep feeding the woodstove every 6-8 hours.

At $2/gal. for propane, and $400 for two full cords of hardwood purchased every year, we spend around $1200 total for 7 months (between Oct-Apr) for heating (typically 68F) and hot water. The extra insulation, weathersealing, new windows, new woodstove, and plastic sheeting over the old windows has shaved hundreds per year off our heating bill. And this is for a 1800 sq. ft house built in 1968. I still have tons of upgrading to do, such as spray-foaming the basement rim joists or filling the walls with cellulose insulation.

sheshe2

(83,875 posts)
58. Thanks Nick.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:40 PM
Mar 2015

Good info for many people out there, thanks for posting it. I am an apartment dweller. Sadly it will not help me.

 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
59. I pay under 6 cents for a kwh in ohio
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 10:45 PM
Mar 2015

Living next to coal country isnt always bad.

I keep my heat at 72 when Im home and have never had a bill above 150.

I

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
60. We've spent $900 on heat in the last two weeks here in NH...
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 11:06 PM
Mar 2015

And we just moved from an apartment where it was $300.00 last month for gas. Weve spent $600 for oil, $100 for pellets and $200 for wood we've used just in the last two weeks. And that doesnt count the electric heat bathrooms. Talk about a heart attack!

I'd kill to have gas again. Count your blessings.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
61. I've always used wood burning stoves for heat.
Wed Mar 4, 2015, 11:07 PM
Mar 2015

There is a small electric heater in the bathroom for cold mornings. It has been unusually warm so far this year in So Az. I'm at 4600 feet. But it has been cool enough to burn quite a bit of my wood stash. It can be quite a bit of work to get the wood. Several days a year with my truck and chain saw, then stacking and splitting. I have to view it as a meditation. I have oak, pecan, eucalyptus and plenty of mesquite. So my heating "bill" doesn't give me a heart attack, but I have to work to stay warm.

DebJ

(7,699 posts)
63. My goodness, the cost of a mortgage payment! That is horrendous!
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 01:36 AM
Mar 2015

We are in South Central Pa, in a 60 year old home with very drafty windows and everything going to pot (or termites recently). It's all brick with nice oak flooring, only 1400 sq feet, but zero insulation in outside walls (I was too dumb to know that this is how brick homes were built). The windows are actually beginning to rot away, single pane glass, plus some ridiculous things supposed to be storm windows. Basement unfinished; the cold air pours into the old pull-out style windows down there and cold radiates from the cinder block and cement floor, and also, runs right under the main floor....the beautiful oak floors have no insulation, just the lovely wood. The attic insulation might be from 60 years ago too, from the looks of it. The house actually warms up in summer evenings as the attic heat radiates into the main floor. I sure can't complain about the bills though. The recent change in electric usage was when my husband lost 120 lbs, and then found his hobby area in the basement too cold to use half the year. He always had lights blazing everywhere, the radio on, tv on but muted, all hours of the day and night when he wasn't working. And he'd leave it on and go shopping for hours, pausing only to turn on the upstairs TV too before he left! Now he's upstairs with me half the year, and we use less lights in our living room than we used to do. And 2007-2008 we converted everything we could to CFLs (now to convert again to that newer bulb...) The last two years natural gas consumption increase in gallons was due to my husband being diagnosed in 2012 with chronic kidney disease, and losing 120 (extremely extra) pounds; now he has a more normal body temp without the insulation of a polar bear. We keep our thermostat at 74 degrees; sometimes crank it to 76.... but our heat vents are at the ceiling....so the hot air comes out and goes up, while the windows blow drafts in around our shoulder level. Hopefully next year or two we can replace the attic insulation and do some other things to improve and keep costs no more than the average $2500 a year for both gas and electric.



Electric KWH per year
11832 12002 11281 11552 11240 11177 10063 9678
2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014
Electric dollars per year
1281.78 1200.73 1310.08 1451.10 1521.52 1414.72 1330.53 1264.46


Natural Gas gallons per year
1030.00 1104.00 1110.00 1100.00 932.00 900.00 1137.00 1118.00
2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014
Natural Gas dollars per year
1359.50 1741.02 1544.79 1308.55 1065.22 1017.40 1234.75 1314.29


Used the gas fireplace a lot in 2008; less in 2009, then stopped using it....toooo expensive and doesn't even warm the room !
I think 2008 replaced gas water heater with a gas tankless one; the new one pilot is lit using energy from running water/zero electric
October 2009 1963 electric stove/oven converted to gas
August 2010 replaced 25 year old fridge with a cheapo but new fridge ($400 with terrible seal leaks water all the time)
Gas leaks detected June 2010 and March 2013 (apparently for three months during full heat use)
Severe below zero weather for probably about a total of 3-4 weeks in January and February 2014

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
65. That's horrible
Thu Mar 5, 2015, 01:52 AM
Mar 2015

Even in the coldest of winters my gas bill never went over $250/month (and I live in Canada). My current home was built to be ultra energy efficient - tankless hot water heater which acts as a boiler for the furnace, and the house was built with excellent insulation (mostly rigid spray foam). In our coldest month in the last 2 years my gas bill was $85, and that's with 2 teenage daughters that take super long showers (ah, the downside of tankless hot water - they never have to get out because the shower turned cold). My electricity, however, is quite high. Even though we are gone all day most days, my last bill was $130.

It's way past time for some alternatives. A dream of mine was to mount solar panels to my roof...and I have a friend who is an electrician who can help me out. But I currently cannot afford it. And the panels would probably be useless in winter when it snows and covers them. I wish there were MORE alternatives. Isn't it so typically human to wait until we are desperate to come up with something better? This should've happened 20 years ago.

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