We’re more than six months into an illegal war and hardly anyone in DC seems to care.

[DesMoinesDem]

The Isis war resolution debate resounds with doublespeak

We’re more than six months into an illegal war and hardly anyone in DC seems to care.

Congress continued to half-heartedly debate an ISIS war resolution this week, as the Senate held a hearing on the Obama administration’s proposed language for a three-year ISIS war that it belatedly wrote only a few weeks ago - after several months and thousands of bombs had been dropped in both Iraq and Syria. Sen. Bob Corker, meanwhile, says he his committee might get around to holding another hearing in a couple weeks. But he’s in no rush.

It’s hard to figure out who is more to blame for the embarrassing damage both branches of government are currently doing to both the War Powers Act and the Constitution: a Congress that is too cowardly to take a stand, or an administration that insists it doesn’t matter what Congress does, they’re going to keep bombing Iraq and Syria for years either way.

In the Senate hearing this week, the discussion focused on the nebulous language in the White House’s proposed bill and whether the Obama administration actually wants a ground war or not. The President, for months, has been insisting US combat troops would not be fighting on the ground - aside from their comically narrow definition of “combat troops” - but their war resolution paints a different picture. The language says it would “not authorize the use of the United States armed forces in enduring offensive ground combat operations.” (emphasis mine)

That means combat troops are on the table, the question is only for how long.

...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/28/the-isis-war-resolution-debate-resounds-with-doublespeak

[Comrade Grumpy]

1. Operation No Enduring Offensive Ground Operations. Sounds kinda zingy.

And we don't need no steenking war authorizations.

[marym625]

2. K&R!

Thanks for the post

[randys1]

3. This is a very important issue and thanks for pointing it out.

Americans, not most liberals but most Americans are so busy working and paying bills they dont have time to rationally research who is doing what and why.

They are told be afraid, so they are afraid.

Obama is caught between the FACT that W and Cheney created a fucking nightmare that he will take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for if ONE hair on ONE american head on American soil is harmed and the fact that ISIL is a very real problem, one we created.

Nobody will blame W and Cheney, appropriately, they will blame Obama...

I am against any boots on the ground but I see this is an ultimate outcome.

Once again, like with the economy, the Black guy was left with such a shit-hole, that no matter how well he responds to it, he will be criticized and blamed.

[glasshouses]

5. It was obvious 6 months ago that Obama will deploy combat units

to fight ISIS

The Iraqi army will not be able to handle this on their own even with the special op units already deployed
working with them.

This is going to take at least 5000 infantry going house to house to kill them.
With that it will take another 20,000 support troops also deployed to the region.
This is going to be a full blown war once again with an occupation in place

[randys1]

6. The question is, what are the alternatives? It would be one thing if we werent responsible

but we are.

But even without that, what are his options?

[GGJohn]

8. That's a good question.

I'm opposed to US boots on the ground, but am in favor of US air power in conjunction with other ME countries.

[glasshouses]

13. It can't be an air war once it gets into the cities

[Scootaloo]

9. Well, we could stop arming and training "rebels" to attack the Syrian government

Since the Syrian forces are the best option for defeating Daesh in Syria. Which is the stronghold of the organization.

So long as we weaken Syria, we strengthen Daesh. Especially since those "rebels" are prone to scurrying under the black flag after we've blessed them so.

[glasshouses]

10. The only other option I see is what Obama was hoping for also

That the other countries in the region would step up and deploy combat units
to take out ISIS

He sees now that's not going to happen. It's certainly no secret to the countries in the region and to the world all this is happening because we removed Saddam Hussein from power.

We broke it and caused this chain reaction now we have to fix it.

[erronis]

24. Just like the Brits fixed the Raj

Or the French, Indochina. Or the Spanish/Portuguese, South America.

Helluva fix, guys. We're still (150+ years later battling YOUR empirical aspirations.) After raping/pillaging/alienating all of these populations in a fit of Kingly/Presidential pique, you try to withdraw cleanly but find your messes will follow you home.

Ask the Ruski's how well that southern muslim border is doing after their own "Mission Accomplished" happened in the ex-states.

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't fix it. But if we had no f'in idea of what we were doing while we were busy breaking every piece of china in the shop, how are we going to "fix it"?

The only way that is is ever fixed, at least per history, is that the Grand Architects of the mayhem have died, the history books are written to glorify the patriotic efforts, and the population that had to endure(or not) the horrors that were unleashed on the innocent will have died without justice.

[AngryDem001]

14. How about the option where we STAY THE FUCK OUT!

The ME countries need to handle this on their own.

Take a page from Star Trek and apply the prime directive. ISIS is an internal matter in the ME.

[randys1]

25. That is my first inclination as well, but what about the tens or hundreds of thousands of lives

that will be lost DIRECTLY because of the for profit war of W and Cheney, do we have any obligation for those people who will die, as sure as god made little green apples, if we do nothing?

[TheKentuckian]

18. Get the fuck most out and let the regional powers deal with it or not.

[840high]

4. big k/r

[leveymg]

7. Shouldn't the War Powers Act Congressional approval requirement be triggered after 90 days?

After all, ISIS has demonstrated that an F-16 can be shot down with a dusty old SA-7 shoulder-launched missile. Not like there's no plausible risk to it.

[frankfacts]

11. Our Military seems to prosecute nothing but

[DonCoquixote]

12. sadly,

both the GOP and the Dems show inconsistency, but Rand is right to go sahead and ask where the hell those demos who are against war are. However, it is disgusting that the Rand Paul speech quoted quote makign war and making Obama care as EQUAL. I do wish the Guardian writer who quoted and used Paul had pointed that out.

[Cryptoad]

15. More Papa Paul BS,,,,,,

[uhnope]

16. Inaccurate headline. The legal issues are a matter of debate. But Obama, a Constitutional scholar,

believes he has legal authority to fight ISIS.

Debate:
http://time.com/3328080/isis-syria-aumf-obama-law/

and

the fact that matters most is that ISIS began its life as Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), the branch set up following the 2003 U.S.-led invasion. While the groups prospects waned for a time, the war across the border in Syria gave the organization new life as it took advantage of the chaos to regroup, recruit, and reorient itself. Currently ISIS is listed on the State Department’s Foreign Terrorist Organization list as the “Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (formerly al-Qa’ida in Iraq),” with the site clearly saying that the group had been on the list since 2004.

As a different senior administration official explained to the Guardian, the determination was based on the group’s “longstanding relationship with al-Qa’ida (AQ) and Usama bin Laden.” The fact that the U.S. fought against ISIS when it was still AQI, that the group still wants to conduct attacks against “U.S. persons and interests” and ISIS’ belief that it’s the real successor to Osama bin Laden’s legacy, the official argued, means “the President may rely on the 2001 AUMF as statutory authority for the use of force against Isil.”

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/09/11/3566166/why-obama-thinks-he-can-bomb-isis-in-syria-without-asking-congress/

When it comes to fighting the beheaders, I think I'll take Obama over "Trevor" :

[blackspade]

23. The problem is that AUMF was on shaky legal ground to begin with.

Relying on this Bush era travesty is foolish on the administration's part and only provides fodder for the rethugs in the upcoming election cycle.

[former9thward]

28. I always wonder why people call Obama a "Constitutional scholar".

He lectured for about 12 years teaching part time 3 classes a year at the U of Chicago. I am unaware of any law review articles he wrote or any books on Constitutional Law. Normally these are the things "scholars" do.

[randome]

17. At the risk of being labeled a cheerleader for Obama...

...I believe we have truly entered a new era in which 'war', as we so quaintly understood it, no longer exists.

This is the 21st century and the Eastern and Western worlds are merging, which causes all sorts of repercussions, including roving bands of terrorists like ISIS.

Like it or not, this is the world we have now. Trying to force our thinking into 20th century ways is not the best way to approach the present.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[TheKentuckian]

19. No, it sounds like Tony Snow or Ari Fliescher coming to bullshit us accepting Bush shenanigans

[grahamhgreen]

20. This war is as stupid as the last one.

[blackspade]

21. This shit sandwich just keeps getting thicker.

Meanwhile the money keeps flowing to the war profiteers.

[bigwillq]

22. It's not illegal when this adminstration does it.

And we must always support the president during a time of war.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

26. Well, we spent over a decade on the illegal war in Iraq, so six months seems short. nt

[libdem4life]

27. It's the epitome of The Gordian Knot and it scares the hell out of me. What's worse, it is setting

up like the Biblical prophecies of Armegeddon...and then there are those in the ME with nuclear arms who don't belong to the Non-Proliferation Agreement and we depend on our ability to "control" these nukes. I'm afraid we're screwed...back to the Gordian Knot.

[Scuba]

29. K&R

[Doctor_J]

30. But our leader now has a pure heart and beautiful children, so this is nothing like

all those other debacles

[woo me with science]

31. kick