Grandma Maced By Police For Bringing Cupcakes To Granddaughter’s Classroom

[n2doc]

Apparently not everyone likes grandma’s cupcakes.

Mary Poole, 78, is still recovering from injuries after what she claims was a violent attack from a school district police officer last year, ABC30 reports. Now the California woman has finally filed a lawsuit, citing $180,000 in medical bills, a dislocated shoulder and fracture and the intense pain of being maced in the face twice.

Poole is alleging a litany of wrongdoing by the district’s officer: excessive force, elder abuse, assault and false arrest.

“I hadn’t seen my granddaughters for some time, and I wanted to see them, and so I baked some cupcakes and bought some cookies for my granddaughters’ classroom,” Poole told ABC30.

Poole says when she arrived at her granddaughter’s school, a Clovis Unified police officer stopped her, saying there was a restraining order against her.

Poole says she tried to explain, but says the officer then sprayed her in the face with mace twice, threw her down and dragged her across the ground. Poole was not arrested, and there was not a restraining order against her. The officer still works for the district.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/24/grandma-maced-by-police-for-bringing-cupcakes-to-granddaughters-classroom/

Like to origonal story

http://abc30.com/news/grandma-claims-officer-manhandled-her-in-front-of-clovis-unified-school/531845/

[KamaAina]

1. Daily Caller?!

So even Tucker the F*cker is getting fed up with this BS?

[randys1]

2. I wont click on a link to a source that is non credible, but if Tucker is upset it is because

Obama is to blame, somehow

[n2doc]

5. here's a different link

http://abc30.com/news/grandma-claims-officer-manhandled-her-in-front-of-clovis-unified-school/531845/

[Cali_Democrat]

3. USA! USA! USA! Land of the free....home of the brave!

We have the freedom to mace grandmothers delivering cupcakes.

Take that, USA haters.

[AngryAmish]

4. lemmie guess, she's black

[PoliticAverse]

9. Nope. n/t

[cstanleytech]

83. Nope, looks white. There was also a court order that forbid her from being there

according to the article though it doesnt say why such an order was in place but it would be interesting to learn exactly why such an order to keep her away was needed.

[jberryhill]

86. Why would that be "interesting"?

[cstanleytech]

92. So you are saying you arent interested in learning why a

grandmother with a restraining order to keep away from the kid at school showed up anyway?

[jberryhill]

95. No, I got tired of that side of the discussion

Just kidding.

We had a grandpa show up at the Family Court here and kill two people under circumstances with this aroma.

She was fucking around at the behest of her son, whom she was calling from the car instead of leaving the property.

It reads like the first paragraph of an Amber Alert.

"Cop Foils Child Abduction" was not the title her lawyer chose for this civil complaint.

[niyad]

89. here:

For several years, she was the guardian of her son's daughters, but a custody dispute between their parents left her unable to see the girls.

[jberryhill]

93. Guardianship revoked

If children have been with a family member for a long time, are you aware of what circumstances might cause a court to take the disruptive step of revoking a guardianship?

What kinds of things come to mind?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

94. nice.

Parents bludgeoning each other with emotional retribution games, grandmother gets wacked.

Really nice.

[jberryhill]

96. Grandmother had been the guardian

...and those are not dissolved lightly.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

101. I guess it's easy for me to see the forest for the trees,

As I have no family. Sticky inter-familial battles don't make sense to me.

[niyad]

99. not to mention a rent-a-thug with an attitude.

[cstanleytech]

102. Just to be clear I dont know what happened myself in this case maybe it was innocent visit

gone wrong but then maybe it wasnt an innocent visit and it it wasnt an innocent visit and if grandma was stupid enough to go along with some harebrained scheme after knowing there was a restraining order in place for exactly that reason then its almost enough to make me think she might have deserved some of that mace she got..............almost.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

107. mmmmmm.....sorry, I have to disagree...and more strongly than "almost."

Mace is for stopping an attacker who is a physical threat. A threat because they're bigger or better armed than you.

So, suspicious cupcakes were involved. You order the cupcake bearer to place the cupcakes on the ground and step away from the cupcakes.

Then, as the threatening citizen was a 70-something year old woman, we can be pretty sure the ocifer wouldn't have had much difficulty subduing her by more peaceful means.

[cstanleytech]

122. Mace is a far better option than some others like a gun.

[rpannier]

118. Where did you get a restraining order?

From the article from ABC 30
Poole stands less than 5 feet and about 110 pounds. Her attorney claims the officer should have had the training necessary to handle this situation. In the end, Poole was never arrested, and there was not a restraining order against her.

also from the article

"He jerked me out of my car with my left arm with such great force, and then threw me onto the pavement. From there he dragged me by my left arm up to the school grounds," said Poole.

*** Waht reason did he have to follow her to her car and then pull her out because she was on the phone?

[jberryhill]

123. In answer to your last question...

Because she wasn't leaving. Instead she decided to call the non-custodial parent for a chat.

Her guardianship had been revoked. The guardian had informed the school she was not to have contact.

The claim there was "no restraining order" by her lawyer is entirely beside the point. The cop knew she was attempting to violate a custody order.

Here's an idea... When you have no legal authority to visit children and are told to leave, you leave. You don't stay on the property to make a phone call, leaving your intentions unclear.

This was bullshit. This was a scheme between her and her son to avoid court orders in relation to these children with "oh just little old me with cupcakes."

This is a game that results in 28,000 abductions of children by grandparents annually.

[rpannier]

131. If you say so

I will cede the argument to your all-knowing, psychic ability in this instance

[jberryhill]

133. Quite a coincidence, don't you think?

I mean the cop thought there was a "restraining order".

By total and complete happenstance, there was an entirely unrelated court order which had terminated her previous guardianship and assigned custody to her estranged daughter-in-law.

I mean, gee, it's almost as if the cop knew there was a relevant court order involved in the situation.

But, you're right, someone in the story says there was no "restraining order" per se, so it couldn't possibly be the case that there was a legally relevant prior history of court orders involving this woman's authority to enter an elementary school to see these kids that the legal guardian was not allowing her to see.

Nawwwww....

[rpannier]

134. Cops think lots of things

Like one thought the guy he strangled in NYC had cigarettes
The cop that shot that 12 year old in Cleveland

I'm sure those were also justified

[jberryhill]

137. Those were totally unjustified and wrong

The interesting thing about thinking for oneself is being able to avoid rely on something other than applying mindless prejudice to the actions of individuals.

I'll see your "instances of police brutality" and raise you "28,000 children a year abducted by grandparents in custody disputes".

[rpannier]

141. And unless you can show that's what she was doing

Your 28,000 instances have no bearing on this case.

To use statistical 'evidence' unrelated to this case and this woman is irrelevant as any attorney will tell you (Prosecutor or Defense)
In the case where the police killed the guy in NYC, they could at least claim he had been arrested before for selling untaxed cigarettes, so they could make some murky claim to probable cause to assume he was doing it again

The incident at the school had nothing to suggest she was doing anything illegal or even questionable.
Since she never asked to take her grandchild with her (you can argue was never given the chance) we won't know.

The school is locked. They (the office) let her in.
The officer made her leave.
She sat in her car and called her son -- the father.
Did the school ask the officer to tell her to leave? Nothing in the story says they did or didn't
Did the officer decide on his own that she had to go?
Did he abuse his authority?
Will the district and city likely pay out a big settlement for brutality?

[magical thyme]

155. since you read the story, you also know that when the cop told her to leave the premises

she did.

And that the assault took place at a nearby street where she had pulled over to call her son to talk about what had happened. And that she was injured when the cop dragged her out of her car.

And that a court order terminating guardianship and assigning custody doesn't mean you aren't allowed to visit, see or speak to the person you are no longer the guardian for.

Also tha she is nearly 80 years old and all of 100 pounds.

Hopefully the cop car had a running camera pointed toward her, so show exactly what went down.

[jberryhill]

156. "doesn't mean you aren't allowed to visit"

...without the guardian's permission, you are not allowed to visit.

It is beyond obvious that the guardian was not allowing her to have contact with the kids. It is beyond obvious the school was aware of that instruction. It is beyond obvious she was trying to get around that by this ridiculous maneuver.

I'll ask you, since no one else seems to know. What sorts of things lead a court to decide to terminate a guardianship and change custody arrangements, and why doesn't Prince Charming her son have any visitation during which she can see the kids?

[magical thyme]

158. a custody battle would lead a court to assign a temporary guardian

until custody is decided.

For example, right now a co-worker of mine and her mother are temporary guardians of her niece while her sister and brother-in-law get divorced and custody is decided. Their guardianship will end at that point; it has no bearing on their guardianship or them as individuals.

Beyond that, we don't know the details of the settlement, whether there is shared custody or what. Prince Charming may be that; nothing assures that the mother isn't the wicked witch of the west.

All of which is irrelevent to a police officer assaulting a 78 year old, 100 pound woman.

They told her to leave; she left. She had a right to pull her car over and call her son. They did not have a right to drag her out of her car and injure her. Period.

[jberryhill]

159. The custody dispute appears to be over

"Beyond that, we don't know the details of the settlement, whether there is shared custody or what."

Then why can't granny see the kids when Prince Charming has them?

[magical thyme]

160. obviously we don't know those details

what we do know is that the police assaulted a 78 year old, 100 pound woman and put her in the hospital, for pulling her car over to the side of the road and calling her son on the phone. because the injuries weren't caused on school grounds, but on a public street.

And none of the details of the custody or divorce settlement or guardianship or termination of that are relevent to that.

Per her complaint, they told her to leave the school and she left.

She pulled her car over a block away to call her son, and they assaulted her.

Nothing she did or was doing justifies that.

[jberryhill]

161. "Per her complaint..."

"She pulled her car over a block away to call her son, and they assaulted her."

They?

Was he chasing on foot in order to catch up after she drove off?

[magical thyme]

163. he. my mistake.

She pulled her car over just a block away, so he could have been watching and followed on foot when she pulled her car over.

As I just wrote, we don't know that level of detail.

What we do know is that her complaint is that when ordered to leave the school, she left, that she drove away, pulled her car over at the next street to call her son. And that he pulled her out of her car and injured her.

[PoliticAverse]

6. KFSN-TV (Fresno ABC affiliate) story on the issue...

http://abc30.com/news/grandma-claims-officer-manhandled-her-in-front-of-clovis-unified-school/531845/

[hifiguy]

7. Our magnificent, brave and dedicated police.

Keeping the world safe from grandmas bearing cupcakes. Fuck the kkkops.

[jberryhill]

8. "saying there was a restraining order against her"

“I hadn’t seen my granddaughters for some time, and I wanted to see them, and so I baked some cupcakes and bought some cookies for my granddaughters’ classroom.”

I can't understand why a school would have a problem with an elderly stranger delivering food to a classroom.

[PoliticAverse]

10. "and there was not a restraining order against her."

http://abc30.com/news/grandma-claims-officer-manhandled-her-in-front-of-clovis-unified-school/531845/

[jberryhill]

11. ...in a paragraph sourced to her attorney

Elementary schools do not allow anyone to just show up and meet with kids.

Why hadn't she seen them for a while? Did she not know where they lived?

[TexasProgresive]

12. Did the cop tell her that it was school policy did not allow people to enter

without an appointment? Was it necessary to put the woman in the hospital? Did the officer use the minimal force necessary to prevent this woman from entering the school? These are questions I would like answered. Too many police officers resort to maximum force when dealing with any person. I just don't think the cops I knew when I was young would've carried out their duties like this one or several others that come to mind.

[jberryhill]

15. These are allegations in a civil lawsuit

Is every word of every lawsuit filing the gospel truth?

From the few details available, a few things stand out... She hadn't seen the granddaughters in a while? Why? Why would she know where they go to school, but not be able to see them at home?

The confrontation appears to have happened after she was asked to leave, but did not leave.

I wasn't there, and do not know what happened.

There is no school anywhere that simply allows people to show up and give kids food. None. There is also no shortage of people involved in Family Court matters who do not believe that such proceedings apply to them, and who abduct children with whom they are not supposed to have contact.

This suit was filed a year after the fact in order to toll the relevant statute of limitations, because the defendant's attorneys were apparently not buying what the plaintiff's attorneys were selling. If you believe the civil complaint in this matter is the entire story here, then you are certainly entitled to do so.

[TexasProgresive]

19. She wouldn't have gotten in to my schools because the doors

were locked to the outside. We could go into a fence area for recess and at lunch but the doors at the front were locked with panic locks on the inside that we were never to open except at the end of the school day. This was in the 50s.

[jberryhill]

23. This much is clear....

While there is an allegation sourced to the civil filing that there was "no restraining order" it is clear that whomever was the legal guardian of the children wasn't allowing granny to see the kids.

We don't know why.

However, what granny decided to do was to route around the legal guardian by visiting the children at the school.

That much apparently got communicated to the school, which would explain why the cop might have thought there was a "restraining order" when instead there was more likely a custody order.

And, yeah, no members of an extended family EVER thought they'd interfere with a custody order.

D'jever take a close look at most Amber Alerts and notice who the abductor is? It is more often than not a family member who apparently does not agree with a custody order.

[panader0]

20. Yes. The lady is 78 years old.

I'll bet in her day a grandma bringing cookies to school would have been just fine. It's too bad that there needs to be such intense security in schools these days.

[d_r]

87. it would be

In my kid's school right now, but I admit it makes some parents nervous

[Journeyman]

13. Most elementary schools (or at least my daughters' schools) don't allow home baked foods. . .

They don't want to take a chance that the nice person baking cookies and cakes is a lousy cook, or worse, an irresponsible home maker who would inadvertently poison the children with expired ingredients.

Store bought or not brought, that was my daughters' school mantras.

(All this said, I have to say this situation was handled poorly all the way around.)

[jberryhill]

18. It's not about the food

Does your school allow anyone to show up to visit your daughters?

In particular, does your school allow someone to show up whom you have not been allowing to visit your daughters?

[madfloridian]

38. My schools where I taught did NOT mace elderly women. Ever.

[jberryhill]

149. Is granny spry?

[Trajan]

41. Should ask grandparents who accidentally arrive at their grandchildrens elementary school

Be immediately maced? ... or should they first get dragged?

[Warren DeMontague]

44. 'accidentally'?

She 'accidentally' showed up out of the blue for an unscheduled, unauthorized meeting with kids that there's currently a custody dispute over, and she is closely associated with the non-custodial parent?

[jberryhill]

48. And called the non-custodial parent on a cell phone instead of leaving

I wonder what the entire plan really was.

[Warren DeMontague]

49. Given DU's demographics, though, I suspect your points will fall on deaf ears

...so to speak.

[niyad]

91. according to the linked article, she was IN HER CAR, talking to her son, when the rent-a-thug

dragged her out of it.

[jberryhill]

104. Yeah, calling her son...

...instead of leaving the premises.

...and refusing to leave.

...and likely interfering with operation of the school because "disgruntled grandma in custody dispute refusing to leave parking lot."

[niyad]

109. she was IN HER CAR.

[jberryhill]

120. Did the engine work?

Was she calling the non-custodial parent for instructions on how to start the engine and drive away?

[TBF]

80. Our schools allow it. The teachers will let you know if there

are allergy issues (peanut allergies in particular can be very serious).

[rhett o rick]

14. Let us guess your point here. If the statement is sourced to her attorney, it must be

at least suspect.

"Elementary schools do not allow anyone to just show up and meet with kids. " Implication is that she did not have authorization to see her granddaughters at school.

"Why hadn't she seen them for a while?" Hmmm, maybe she is on the outs with the parents and they didn't want her to see the granddaughters.

" Did she not know where they lived?" I guess if she knew where they lived she should have visited them at their home and saved herself a lot of trouble. Victim guilty.

The news story left a lot out.

[jberryhill]

16. "Victim guilty"

No, legal guardian of children obviously not allowing access to the children by this person.

We do not know why.

So, this person decided that the legal guardian of the children should be disregarded, and decided to get access to the children at the school.

[rhett o rick]

25. We do not know why the police did not allow her to see her granddaughters.

If the article says the legal guardian wouldn't allow contact with the grandmother, I missed it.

We do not know why the officer treated her so roughly. The treatment appears to be unjustified.

[jberryhill]

39. Then you certainly missed this part of the article

"I hadn’t seen my granddaughters for some time, and I wanted to see them"

They live somewhere. Is that a fair inference?

They live under the supervision of whomever is their legal guardian. Is that a fair inference?

Apparently, granny is not able to see them at wherever that is, under the supervision of whomever that is. Because it is generally a lot easier to visit children where they live, rather than to attempt to visit a whole classroom full.

Aside from that, maybe you haven't raised children in a while, but there is not an elementary school anywhere that doesn't have a list of people who are authorized to pick up or visit children. You can't just send your friend to "pick up the kids from school" anymore. Additionally schools are usually pretty sensitive to instructions from the legal guardian about specific persons who are not, under any circumstances, to have contact with the children.

The circumstances here strongly indicate that granny was on that list. Hence, the cop believing there was a restraining order. That information didn't come from nothing.

And when someone whom the school has been told to watch out for shows up, then you bet the assumption is an attempted child abduction.

[rhett o rick]

136. I read that and it clearly doesn't indicate why she hasn't seen them. But you surmise

that since the officer beat her up that he was right and she deserved the beating. How sad. She is an old lady for crying out loud. You don't know that she wasn't on the authorized list, you just want to think so to justify her beating. You don't know why "granny" wasn't able to see them. You are making huge assumptions trying desperately to justify her getting beat up. There is no excuse for her treatment.

[jberryhill]

138. From reading further reports, we do know

Her guardianship had been terminated.

Her estranged daughter in law had custody.

Quite obviously, her son was such a Prince Charming that he had no visitation rights, and never had guardianship or custody.

Whether that's because he molested them or beat them, it is a rare situation.

[rhett o rick]

143. So you think the officer was justified in beating her up? That's what this is all

about.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. I'm in agreement with you on this.

Elementary schools generally require visitors to check in and follow some sort of procedure, especially these days- and for damn good reason.

There seems to be some issue because it was supposedly a "kindly little old granny with a plate full of cookies" or something. If it was a 22 year old kid in fatigues carrying a duffel bag, everyone would understand why the school was on edge.

But schools aren't going to be sitting there going "oh, this random unannounced visitor is okay, whereas that one may be intending to shoot the place up"

[jberryhill]

26. Not just any visitor...

...but a visitor whom the legal guardian of the children was apparently not allowing to have contact with the children.

The place to challenge that is Family Court, not the school.

It is clear the school, and the cop, were aware of the legal guardian's authorization in that regard.

Notice also, the confrontation escalates after she is told to leave. She doesn't leave. She apparently then makes a phone call to a non-custodial parent.

There was definitely something else going on here than "kindly old granny drops by with cupcakes".

[Warren DeMontague]

28. I think you're right.

The story smells fishy. "I used to be their guardian but I can't see them because of a custody dispute"... hmmm. and there's a restraining order? with all the custody kidnappings that take place, people want to know why cops might be involved?

The fact that Tucker and World Nut Daily are flogging this thing only makes me think it's bullshit even more.

[jberryhill]

34. ...and infowars, to name a few

There may not have been a "restraining order". From the few facts available, there was a messy custody situation and, yes, her guardianship had been terminated. She claims she had not been able to see them for a while, and the only explanation for that is that the then-current guardian was not allowing her to contact the girls. That could easily be understood on the ground, from a chain of instructions from the guardian to the school to the cop as a misunderstanding of there being a "restraining order" per se.

So, yes of course, if the legal guardian of a pair of children doesn't want you to have contact with the children, then you show up at their school with cupcakes.

And, instead of leaving after being denied access, she remains on the school grounds to make a phone call - apparently to the aggrieved non-custodial parent.

Yeah, no extended family members have ever been enlisted in a scheme to evade a custody order. Like, that NEVER happens, cough, cough.

[Warren DeMontague]

35. Oh man, I threw out Alex Jones's name almost by reflex.

Not surprised at all.

[jberryhill]

85. Take a look at the WND version - and comments

Whirled Nuts Daily is in full dudgeon.

[H. Cromwell]

105. It is safe

to assume that when Granny was stopped from seeing the grandkids, She was told to LEAVE School Property. It is safe to reason she was on school property while conversing with her son in her car on the phone. LEO goes to her car and AGAIN tells her to leave.
From that point on...I am guessing that she got vocal with the School cop and he did what he did.

[jberryhill]

106. She "tried to explain"

He wasn't letting her explain.

[H. Cromwell]

111. Vacate the property

There is no explaining after an order to vacate private property is given....no matter what the circumstances are. Frustrating, yes; causing the trespasser to get maced and arrested Yes, even a grandmother. Arguing with a school guard while on school property is always a bad idea. Argue your case at a school board meeting.

[jberryhill]

113. But you don't understand, she was trying to explain

By, uh, calling the non-custodial parent and remaining on the property.

[H. Cromwell]

117. Leave the property

and then call whoever she wants to complain to...nobody gets maced or arrested.

[Warren DeMontague]

130. I think that's probably right.

I also think there's almost certainly a whole bunch more going on - particularly pertaining to the custody dispute - here than the story according to innocent "who, me?" granny.

[cwydro]

37. Yeah, there is something else to this story for sure.

Does not excuse the cop's violence, but some domestic crap is going on here.

[jeff47]

162. Wow that is a stupid argument

You are claiming that her lawyer is lying about a public document that is extremely easy for the court to produce.

That is an incredibly stupid argument for you to make.

Next, you claim that being beaten by the police is acceptable because she didn't visit the kid at home.

If that's what you got, you really should just stop.

[Matariki]

27. But you can understand assaulting her?

Good god. NOT the way to handle things.

[jberryhill]

29. Neither of us know what happened

Instead of leaving, she makes a phone call to a non-custodial parent. Why? For further instructions because whatever they had planned didn't work out?

A civil complaint is not what you'd call a dispassionate objective recounting of facts, and most child abductions are not by strangers.

[Matariki]

31. How can you possibly be an apologist for stuff like this?

[Warren DeMontague]

33. because the story smells like bullshit, and if there's a custody dispute AND a restraining order

most people should be able to do the math.

[jberryhill]

36. Because the context reads like an Amber Alert in the making

If the legal guardian of a pair of children is not allowing you to have contact with the children, you do not show up at their school with cupcakes, and then call the non-custodial parent for further instructions instead of leaving the premises when you are requested to do so.

[Shrike47]

71. Those of us who have practiced domestic relations and juvenile law have seen too many times.

Some of what goes on ain't pretty. Berryhill's a lawyer. His view makes sense to me, although it sounds like there might have been excessive force employed.

[jberryhill]

74. You should have seen the grandpa who shot up our Family Court!

Grandpa killed two people in that one.

http://archive.delawareonline.com/article/20130211/NEWS01/302110071/-1/NEWS1127

[Matariki]

172. I don't disagree with keeping random people out of the school - that's not the issue

There are certain folks here who pop up like clock work to make excuses for the most egregious behavior as long as it's done by an authority figure.

I seriously doubt this 80 year old woman posed a genuine threat to the school cop. He just doesn't know how to do his job and/or he delights in his petty power. I'm sure a reasonable person could have explained school policy and either escorted her to the school office or given her a phone number to call. Or, if she got verbally abusive, had the training to deal with that without putting her in the hospital.

It's sickening. And having to argue that it's sickening on a supposedly progressive board smells like troll.

[Warren DeMontague]

32. WHY DO YOU HATE CUPCAKES? AND GRANNIES?

You're just a mean ol cupcake granny-hater, you are.

[Renew Deal]

43. Obviously this shouldn't have happened, but

This is a way someone could access or abduct a child they aren't supposed to be around. I wonder why the security thought there was a restraining order. And even if they legitimately thought so, there is no need for a violent reaction.

[jberryhill]

140. Let's talk about Prince Charming for a moment

She hasn't seen the girls because daughter in law won't allow it.

She gets along with dad (her son) okay, since she was on the phone with him at the time.

Also, everybody seems to reside in the same general geographic area.

Now, riddle me this. Why doesn't she see the kids when son has visitation? Hmmmm...

I guess one answer would be that he doesn't.

Now, this might require a little general knowledge about Family Court, but in your reckoning, is it usual for the non-custodial parent to have no contact with the children?

If, if not, under what sorts of circumstances does that happen?

Now, yes I know, grandparents do get shafted in these things fairly often - typically if they are not on good terms with the parent who is their child.

But that doesn't seem to be the case here. Instead, during the event, she's on the phone with the parent who is not allowed to be with the kids.

You don't get an odd vibe from that?

[jeff47]

164. You think it's odd for her to talk to the parent she likes?

What fucking planet are you on?

Golly, perhaps her son that is intimately involved with the custody situation might know what she is supposed to do.

[cui bono]

69. Can you understand why anyone would have a problem with a 78 year old woman being maced?

Geebus, the callousness of people on a Dem board is astounding.

[jberryhill]

72. I had a problem with an 89 year old going on a shooting rampage

...at the Holocaust Museum in DC.

Ageist assumption that one's capacity for troublemaking is defined by a number is noted.

You don't know how this went down.

But even looking at what her own lawyer is saying, this has the earmarks of a setup for a child abduction.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

125. I think everyone sees the problem with it

We also see the problem with the "kindly old grandma simply bringing cookies and cupcakes to her granddaughter's class TOTALLY INNOCENTLY NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT FAMILY CUSTODY DISPUTE BEHIND THE CURTAIN".

[napi21]

127. There are thousanads, if not hundreds of thousands of kids abducted by grandparents,

an estranged mom or dad, aunt, uncle, and sometimes even strangers. Schools have gotten very strict on who can even enter the school, or see the child. To have the child released to you, you have to be on a registered list, PERIOD! It doesn't matter if your the child's parent. If you're not on the list, forget it.

[mopinko]

129. there is usually also a "do not let the kid go with" list

i suspect that is why the cop thought there was a restraining order.

[RobinA]

169. Yeah,

that "I was just bringing cookies" story doesn't pass the smell test. Security shouldn't be beating down grandmas, but ya gotta wonder.

[Initech]

17. I wonder what would have happened if they were Snickers bars or Almond Joys?

[jberryhill]

21. It's not the food

I'm surprised how there is no curiosity about why granny hadn't been seeing the children at the residence of the children's legal guardian.

[pinboy3niner]

24. The thlot pickens

From the linked ABC News story:

Poole says she had nothing but good intentions last April, when she showed up at Kastner Intermediate to give her granddaughters baked treats after school. For several years, she was the guardian of her son's daughters, but a custody dispute between their parents left her unable to see the girls.

Obviously we're missing a lot of details and what we have so far is mostly the plaintiff's narrative.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Right. Why would the cops try to keep someone in a custody dispute who has a restraining order

from freely hobnobbing with the kids whose custody they're in a legal fight over?

.....ZOMG COPS ATTACKING CUPCAKE GRANNIES ZOMG ILLUMINATI CALL ALEX JONES

[madfloridian]

40. So now many in this thread support macing an elderly woman with cupcakes. Good Lord!!

[Renew Deal]

45. Why? You don't?

Just kidding. It's absurd.

[jberryhill]

51. 14% of family abductions are by grandparents

http://www.stopfamilyabductionsnow.org/family_court.html

In the over 203,000 cases in which children are abducted by a family member each year, 53 percent of the time the perpetrator was the biological father, 25 percent of the time it was the biological mother, and 14 percent were abducted by a grandparent.

In 63 percent of abductions by a family member, children were with their abductor under lawful circumstances immediately prior to the abduction.

In 76 percent of family abductions, the abducting parent intended to prevent contact between the child and the left-behind parent.

[Renew Deal]

55. I get that

But I imagine that this could have been handled better. Don't think that's a stretch.

[Warren DeMontague]

59. I also think that if you take the accounts being relayed by Alex Jones, etc at face value

you may be missing a big part of the story.

I highly doubt this was a case of "kindly old granny shows up at school with steaming plate of yummy brownies, cop immediately pulls out mace and sprays"

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

126. I don't think it's a stretch to say the headline is being used to conceal part of the real story. nm

[jberryhill]

46. Such a tragedy she could not abduct children over which her guardianship was revoked

Gee, why could that be?

[madfloridian]

50. Situations like that happened often during my teaching years. Ridiculous stupid way to handle it.

We used to have to handle such cases, and I never ever remember any elderly person being harmed like that.

To defend it is ludicrous.

[Warren DeMontague]

53. If it was just a granny showing up with brownies, sure.

There's obviously a whole bunch of shit going on in the background, as evidenced by the custody dispute. I'm sure "granny" didn't tell ABC news about that part.

[madfloridian]

58. Oh, well then, just pepper spray or tase granny.

I guess I am just in shock that so many think there is nothing wrong with that.

Whatever turns you on.

[jberryhill]

63. Yeah, look what they did to Cliven Bundy for just grazin' his cattle

The story is always in the telling.

[Warren DeMontague]

64. Right. Sort of like me suggesting you're fine with children being kidnapped or worse, huh?

Because the ONLY reason I'm disagreeing is because I just want grannies to get maced, it "turns me on".

Whatever the FUCK.

Two words. Kyron Horman. He still hasn't been found. So you know what? I'm sorry if schools are too careful and not accommodating enough to random family members involved with non-custodial parents in disputes. Yes, we should open up all our elementary schools to whatever random people want to roam the grounds, because THE WORLD ISNT FAIR TO GRANNIES

[BlueJazz]

70. Hell, I was just about to post that we should all hop in my pickup truck...

...., stop by the hardware store, haul ass to the hospital, break thru sir-cur-ity and Git her !!


I doubt if a 78 year old lady could get me to mace her if she paid me.
I certainly wouldn't drag her around.

[jberryhill]

75. 68 year old grandfather here killed two in a custody dispute

http://archive.delawareonline.com/article/20130211/NEWS01/302110071/-1/NEWS1127

[jberryhill]

57. Then your skills are sorely needed to stop 28,000 children a year abducted by grandparents...

http://www.stopfamilyabductionsnow.org/family_court.html

In the over 203,000 cases in which children are abducted by a family member each year, 53 percent of the time the perpetrator was the biological father, 25 percent of the time it was the biological mother, and 14 percent were abducted by a grandparent.

In 63 percent of abductions by a family member, children were with their abductor under lawful circumstances immediately prior to the abduction.

In 76 percent of family abductions, the abducting parent intended to prevent contact between the child and the left-behind parent.

------

Kinda odd that the school district apparently had instructions that granny was not supposed to have contact.

Other story indicates granny's former guardianship had been revoked. That also suggests a range of other possibilities here.

[Warren DeMontague]

47. so many in this thread think that the very common instances of custody-related kidnappings that

happen every year magically become no big deal if there's a granny with cupcakes introduced into the mix.

[jberryhill]

54. Grandparent is the abductor 28,000 times a year

http://www.stopfamilyabductionsnow.org/family_court.html

In the over 203,000 cases in which children are abducted by a family member each year, 53 percent of the time the perpetrator was the biological father, 25 percent of the time it was the biological mother, and 14 percent were abducted by a grandparent.

In 63 percent of abductions by a family member, children were with their abductor under lawful circumstances immediately prior to the abduction.

In 76 percent of family abductions, the abducting parent intended to prevent contact between the child and the left-behind parent.

-----

[Warren DeMontague]

56. Thank you for being a voice of sanity and reason.

Like I said, Kyron Horman disappeared from an Oregon school - he still hasn't been found.

I'd rather have schools err on the side of caution.

[Egnever]

61. I don't think that is true at all

I think they have a sense that there is more to the story and think that referring to her as grandma with cupcakes is misleading. It seems clear she was not supposed to be there. The campus cop may indeed have over reacted but we have no way of knowing what was going on here for sure because people seem to be deliberately trying to ignore the fact the school was informed not to let her in.

Macing an old lady sure sounds awful but there is more to this story than just that.

[madfloridian]

65. He pulled her out of the car and onto the pavement. She was IN her car.

Sorry, but in the car a 78/80 yr old woman was hardly a danger.

[Egnever]

67. Says granny who is ignoring protocols in the first place?

Who has had the children removed from her custody?

If it turns out she had the children removed from her custody for abuse will you still be defending her right to visit them with cupcakes?

The point people are making is that clearly there is more to this story than sweet old grandma trying to bring cupcakes and getting maced.

The mental leap from that to they just enjoy grandmas being maced is so bizarre I cant believe anyone even considers it.

[jberryhill]

76. It's the MRA brigade

They get enthralled when a woman is maced, or so I've been told.

[Warren DeMontague]

52. 200,000 parental child abductions in 2010 alone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abduction#Parental_child_abduction

You wonder why schools and authorities get skittish around this shit, this is why.

They still haven't found Kyron Horman. Personally, I'd much rather have schools err on the side of caution.

[jberryhill]

60. Next time someone posts an amber alert here...

"Hey, big deal, it was the kid's dad. Why the fuss."

This school obviously had been warned that granny might show up.

[madfloridian]

62. He pulled her out of the car and onto the pavement. She was IN her car.

Wow, it's good thing that guy was on granny watch.She might have stayed in the car otherwise.

Glad she is suing.

[jberryhill]

66. And SID DITHERS WAS STANDING THERE LAUGHING!

Says so right in the civil complaint.

[Warren DeMontague]

73. ...

[SidDithers]

170. HEY!!...

Sid

[msanthrope]

173. The Notorious S.I.D. strikes again. nt

[madfloridian]

68. The video says there was no restraining order against her.

[jberryhill]

77. I'm going to guess you haven't read the whole thread

Her guardianship was revoked. The legal guardian had told the school she was not to have contact.

Hey, tell me. What kinds of things lead to revocation of a guardianship? Just answer whatever pops into your head.

Whether the cop had been informed the legal guardian had left no contact instructions with the school as a consequence of legal action, and understood that to mean "restraining order" is of zero consequence.

Meet elderly grandpa...

http://archive.delawareonline.com/article/20130211/NEWS01/302110071/-1/NEWS1127

[Warren DeMontague]

78. "A custody dispute left her unable to see the girls"

So what excatly does at mean, do you think?

...and why would showing up unannounced at their school- or waiting to "meet" them with a car- while coordinating on the phone with the disputing non-custodial parent, NOT raise some serious red flags?

[jberryhill]

79. She didn't know how to work the car

This car came unequipped with door locks and she didn't know how to drive it away.

I guess that's why, instead of leaving, she stayed on the property to make a phone call to the non-custodial parent.

[Jamastiene]

81. Who raises those assholes?

Why beat up a kid's grandmother? What do they get out of that?

[jberryhill]

90. Which ones?

Are you asking who raises child abducting non-custodial family members, or who raises mace-armed school police excessively sensitive to custody disputes?

[alp227]

82. Why include your daily caller link? Please don't like to RW sites here.

they have enough traffic as it is already.

[jberryhill]

84. Because among the alternatives is infowars

WND has this story and quite the lively comment section.

[mopinko]

88. maybe there wasnt a "restraining order" but i got a feeling

that the custodial parent had instructed the school not to let her see the kids. and if that is the case, they damn well better have kept her away from those kids, no matter how old she is.
i'm not supporting what this rent-a-cop did, but there is a whole lot more to this story.

she was in her car, but she wasnt leaving. she was talking to the non-custodial parent on the phone. you think they hadnt discussed this beforehand? please.

trying to pass this off as a granny w cupcakes is just bullshit. it was a granny admittedly trying to get around a custody dispute.
yeah, i'll be waiting for the rest of the story.

[madfloridian]

98. Our school kept those in disputes away from the kids without help of police.

And if there was a persistent one we would lock the classroom and call them if needed.

[jberryhill]

108. And you know they didn't "lock the classroom and call the cop"

From what he is said to have believed, it sounds like they did exactly what you are proposing they should have done.

[madfloridian]

110. You are right. They could not take the chance she might hurt the police.

Even though she was in her car. You are right. She might have overpowered everyone and taken those kids.

[jberryhill]

112. Alas her car afforded no opportunity for escape or shelter

Hmmm.... I'm sitting in my car in a parking lot after being ordered to leave school property.... how will I get away? A puzzler.

Oh. I know. The way out is to call another antagonist on the phone and remain on the property!

[madfloridian]

114. Yes, they were right to drag her out and incapacitate her for their own safety

and to keep her from overpowering everyone to take the kids.

[jberryhill]

116. She was refusing to leave

Clearly, while you and your students are locked in the classroom, you should remain there while she makes a phone call in the parking lot for as long as she damn well pleases. I guess maybe she was having pizza delivered and needed to wait there.

[madfloridian]

119. Hey, I said they were right to overpower her so she would pose no danger.

[madfloridian]

97. You guys are right. Safer to incapacitate the old lady in case police weren't strong enough.

Can't go around taking chances.

Jerk her out of the car and throw her on the ground after she's maced. Then she will be no problem.

Never take chances with old ladies against cops. She might have had a gun or knife.

[mopinko]

100. nobody said that.

child abductions in custody cases are real. there is more to the story.

[madfloridian]

103. Of course. They needed to be sure the cops weren't harmed by her.

So they had to mace her, drag her out of the car by one arm and throw her to the ground before she overpowered them.

[jberryhill]

121. No, they should have brought her a fast food order

As long as nobody had anything other to do than find out if she was going to stay in the parking lot until sonny showed up.

I mean, heck "crazy lady in parking lot refusing to leave" is just a normal everyday thing. They should have brought all the kids out to say hello at dismissal time.

I mean, just because the legal guardian left instructions not to allow contact, there's no reason to believe anything bad might happen.

Obviously she had forgotten how to drive her car off the property.

[Rex]

115. I am glad she was detained peacefully, those cupcakes probably had anthrax in them.

Elderly women (I refuse to call her Grandma since that helps her gain sympathy, when she almost got away with blowing up the school) with brownies usually have C4 painted brown to fool the school cops. Happens all the time, I am surprised she tried such an old and tired ploy.

Obviously she did not watch enough Bugs Bunny when she was young. Probably wanted to take the children and dump their dead bodies in a cauldron.

I can almost hear her cackling about eating children, I swear I can.

[jberryhill]

124. You know...

I had the same notion about the story that began...

"Special Needs Alumnus Treated With Suspicion On Visit To Campus"

Pro-tip: don't show up at elementary schools and do weird shit.

[Rex]

132. Weird shit like bring cupcakes to a school, sweet old grandma? What are you? Satan?

Do you frisk your party guests before they come inside the house? Why do you want people to assume she is so menacing without knowing if the guardians are just assholes that hate sweet granny? Seems you are clearly taking one side here.

[jberryhill]

135. I know, silly me, right?

I mean, after all, her guardianship had been terminated and custody assigned to the kids' mother because courts usually say, "oh fuckit, let's mess with the kids for shits and giggles".

And I'm sure that her son was a fine young man before that floozy daughter in law of hers just run off for no reason at all.

So, yeah, she was there to show that no good Jezebel what's what! She wasn't going to let a silly old thing like a termination of guardianship and a custody order get in the way of letting those kids know their mom is a lying little two-timing tramp.

[Rex]

139. Why wouldn't the court give the kids back to the mom? Is that unusual?

Maybe she gave them back and then the parents went asshole on her. Still, no restraining order against her but mace is good she probably was going to knife the kids in the parking lot. Good call.

Jberryhill says, "She won't roll out - always tackle and mace granny in the parking lot, she might knife the kids."

[jberryhill]

146. The parents did not "go asshole on her"

She's on the phone with her son instead of leaving. Prince Charming apparently was never the guardian of the kids and apparently doesn't have visitation either.

So, after being told to leave, there she sat in her car with no means of escape.

We had a 68 year old grandfather shoot the living shit out of our Family Court, killing two people in the process, under these circumstances. I don't see what age has to with it.

If I live to be 78, I will kick Skittles ass!

[LanternWaste]

168. I like to pretend she deserved what happened to her, also.

I like to pretend she deserved what happened to her also, while creating my own life-story of both her and her family.

Certainly allows us to feel more important and clever than we really are...

[sunnystarr]

128. At least the granddaughters

were spared the direct embarrassment that ensues when someone shows up with cupcakes and cookies for you in a 7/8th grade classroom. Oh those cruel middle school mean girl years.

I read all the responses and offer my own take.

I don't believe there was any plot to kidnap these girls. It's not easy to kidnap 13/14 year olds who don't want to go with you. If they did want to go with you there would be no need for kidnapping - they'd just meet you at the mall.

As a grandmother who helped raise my son's 3 children, I handled all their schooling and medical appointments since my son was busy at work during those hours. I had custodial papers which specified those areas of responsibility filed with the school. Anyone can get the form online and have it notarized and filed. From the information it appears that at one time the dad had custody and the grandma took care of the girls. There was a custody battle and the mom won. She cut off access to the girls.

Grandma wanted to see them and did the cupcake/cookie thing (which they were now too old for). Someone at the school had to have let her in. Once she was told to leave she did and went to her car. It states her car was parked on the street and not school property.

So she's upset, especially since she's been told there was a restraining order (a lie). She calls her son to find out about the order and probably to complain about not being able to see her babies. Plus ... who's gonna eat the goodies now?

She wasn't breaking the law by sitting in her car on a public street. The officer acted criminally in assaulting that poor woman. I can't believe he kept his job. Good on her for suing.

[madfloridian]

142. I agree.

This part especially:

"She wasn't breaking the law by sitting in her car on a public street. The officer acted criminally in assaulting that poor woman. I can't believe he kept his job. Good on her for suing."

[Rex]

145. Oh come on, you know she was going to knife those kids after school!

Thank GOD there was an officer of the law there to pull her out of the car and throw her down on the pavement! Any second she was going to spring like a cobra at those poor kids. She can probably spit acid too.

[jberryhill]

147. How many of these do you want?

"A 66-year-old grandmother is under arrest after police say she shot her estranged son-in-law because of an ongoing custody battle he and her daughter were having over the pair's young son."

"A grandfather killed his former daughter-in-law and another woman in a Delaware courthouse before he died in a shootout with officers, a confrontation sparked by a child-custody dispute, police said."

By the way, the victim in that second one lived between me and DUer Treestar.

[Rex]

148. I agree the women could spit acid at least 20 yards. I would have tased her first.

That officer was brave pulling her out of the car like he did. You think they give medals out for thwarting evil grannies with loaded cupcakes? I hope so the world is cold and cruel. She belongs in Sing Sing, at the very least.

For all we know she kept those kids in a well in her basement.

[jberryhill]

150. The gingerbread house is usually a tip-off

Perhaps it was not even her, but a wolf who had eaten her and put on her clothes.

[Rex]

151. It puts the lotion on it's skin or it gets the cupcakes again.

Stale cookies can be thrown like Chinese stars. Just saying. They should have given the teacher a chance to welcome her into the classroom, then tased her in front of the kids. Bad form.

[jberryhill]

152. In happier days, this family performed as The Aristocrats

[msanthrope]

166. I think you won the universe with that post. nt

[jberryhill]

144. How come dad didn't have any visitation?

That seems to be a missing piece from your tale of woe.

Why couldnt granny be with the kids during dad's visitation?

She had guardianship of the kids prior to the custody order. It's not clear dad is allowed to see them at all.

[LWolf]

157. Excessive force? Absolutely.

There's no need to beat up on little old ladies.

That said, though:

1. Don't put your grandkids' school in the middle of your custody dispute. We have to enforce restraining orders.

2. Don't "show up with cupcakes" whether there is a restraining order or not. First of all, if you want to bring treats, make arrangements with the teacher ahead of time, instead of expecting the teacher to just drop the current lesson so that you can fill the students full of sugar.

3. Once you've made arrangements with the teacher to show up with treats, make sure they are treats approved by district policy. That means no home-made treats, among other things.

[cstanleytech]

167. "Absolutely." Since none of us were there we cant know what happened for certain

thus there is no absolute here, well except that it could have absolutely been worse if the cop had used a gun instead of mace on her.

[Starry Messenger]

165. At my school, all visitors, even parents, have to register in the main office.

Schools get very jumpy about randos on campus. I'm not a cop fan, but this makes my antenna go up too.

[Pooka Fey]

171. Only in the USA.

I erased everything I wrote before, because it's all irrelevant. I know that many DUers are capable of seeing that the story of a cop beating up an old woman is just plain unacceptable.

Many aren't though, and its just plain gross. That's not the America I used to know, and I know when the Security State started to become more important than plain old common sense.

Peace