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neverforget

(9,436 posts)
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 01:05 AM Feb 2015

Pro-Privacy Senator Wyden on Fighting the NSA From Inside the System

Since Snowden is in the news again

From October 23, 2014
http://www.wired.com/2014/10/senator-ron-wyden-q-a/

Wyden on NSA’s backdoor search loophole: “The Bush administration, as incredible as it sounds, closed it before they left in 2008, and the Obama administration came back and re-opened it.”

The Snowden documents revealed a lot about NSA surveillance activities, but there are at least two “extraordinarily serious” areas that are still in the shadows: the NSA’s use of a so-called backdoor search-loophole and its use of Executive Order 12333, which some fear the NSA has been using as a “hall pass” to do virtually anything overseas with presidential approval.

Although the NSA is not allowed to target Americans for surveillance, under Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act, the NSA can collect data on suspected foreign terrorists and foreign agents, and in doing so, emails and other data belonging to Americans gets swept up as well. The NSA is supposed to take steps to “minimize” the acquisition, retention and distribution of this incidentally collected American data. But in 2011, the government got the FISA Court, which oversees surveillance under the FAA, to agree that the government could deliberately search this American data, using email addresses and phone numbers as the search terms, without needing a warrant—what civil liberties advocates refer to as a “backdoor” search since it allows the government to essentially target Americans through searches of incidental collection without specifically targeting their data for collection. The data isn’t just available to the NSA, however. The FBI also has access to it.

No one, however, not even the NSA, knows how much collected data belongs to Americans and how often it is searched. “I’ve gotten letters from director Clapper and others saying that this problem is growing,” Wyden says. “In fact director Clapper wrote me a letter saying the FBI doesn’t even keep track of them, which causes me to be even more concerned.”

Wyden’s outrage over the searches is all the stronger because he notes that “The Bush administration, as incredible as it sounds, closed [this loophole] before they left in 2008, and the Obama administration came back and re-opened it.” He’s referring to the fact that under the Bush administration, searches of the data was restricted.
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Pro-Privacy Senator Wyden on Fighting the NSA From Inside the System (Original Post) neverforget Feb 2015 OP
Kick neverforget Feb 2015 #1
We need to elect more Wyden's. joshcryer Feb 2015 #2
Absolutely! neverforget Feb 2015 #3
So sad about Udall Valhallakey Feb 2015 #5
Well, Udall was Third Way. joshcryer Feb 2015 #7
K&R. nt OnyxCollie Feb 2015 #4
One of my main fears/reservations re- Obama, before his election as Pres., was snot Feb 2015 #6
Well, he did vote for telecom immunity. joshcryer Feb 2015 #8
Wasn't that the vote he promised to fix after he became President, though? merrily Feb 2015 #9
And people still bought it. joshcryer Feb 2015 #10
Point was, it was not as obvious and clear as your post stated. merrily Feb 2015 #14
How would he "fix it" if he voted for it, making it unfixable. joshcryer Feb 2015 #15
Again, I'm not getting drawn into one of your changes of subject. merrily Feb 2015 #16
That's the subject you initially responded to. joshcryer Feb 2015 #17
Sigh, no it wasn't. And no I didn't. merrily Feb 2015 #18
"Wasn't that the vote he promised to fix" joshcryer Feb 2015 #19
the one with the secret rulings on laws apparently neverforget Feb 2015 #11
Kick neverforget Feb 2015 #12
At least Wyden stood by his principles and voted for cloture on the reform bill Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #13
 

Valhallakey

(70 posts)
5. So sad about Udall
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 04:00 AM
Feb 2015

I still cannot believe we elected Gartner over Udall when it should not have even been close.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
7. Well, Udall was Third Way.
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 04:55 AM
Feb 2015

So clearly the people wanted to choose the far more right wing guy over the Third Way guy because he wasn't liberal enough.

This is the sentiment I hear a lot here and it's disappointing. I think we should judge officials on their merits, not whether or not they're part of a New Democrat coalition.

But yes I was quite disappointed in that outcome. It blew my mind. But midterms suck. We managed in 2010 but 2014 was a disaster.

snot

(10,530 posts)
6. One of my main fears/reservations re- Obama, before his election as Pres., was
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 04:36 AM
Feb 2015

his support for NSA surveillance.

Whose constitutional law was it that he studied???

merrily

(45,251 posts)
9. Wasn't that the vote he promised to fix after he became President, though?
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 06:01 AM
Feb 2015

And, before the vote, he had said he would filibuster, but did not.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jul/14/obamas-wiretapping-flip-flop-yes/

Obama was a lot more equivocal in 2008 than some of your posts would suggest. He said a variety of things about the same subject and often used carefully chosen words to give one impression, while avoiding definite statements that could be held against him later.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
10. And people still bought it.
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 06:52 AM
Feb 2015

Telecom immunity should've never been granted. We're talking a purely unconstitutional act. It's not one says, but what one does, and Obama voted for immunity. To think he'd then go on, as President, to whittle down wiretapping is absurd. For 1) he didn't have the legislative power to do so and 2) no President has ever given up powers that they have. Ever. The very idea that he would stop wiretapping and NSA spying is preposterous. Especially given he was a junior senator with no experience with the realities of government. He didn't even spend any time on it for his first few years.

Ironically, Hillary Clinton voted no. How about them apples?

merrily

(45,251 posts)
14. Point was, it was not as obvious and clear as your post stated.
Wed Feb 25, 2015, 12:12 AM
Feb 2015

I am not about to get into the silly debate that a newly elected Democratic President with a Democratic House and a Democratic Senate can do zero about legislation. Point, was, before he was elected his support for telecom immunity was nowhere near as clear as your post stated--and I would bet a lot that you haven't forgotten the promise to filibuster and the promise to fix after he became President.

[

Ironically, Hillary Clinton voted no.


Who said she didn't? I thought you really wanted another candidate for POTus, but defend Hillary constantly oonlly because you feel a need to correct all the bs others allegedly post about her. Which statement are you "correcting" there?

How did your alleged "real" candidate vote?

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
15. How would he "fix it" if he voted for it, making it unfixable.
Wed Feb 25, 2015, 01:25 AM
Feb 2015

When Clinton voted no on it she said:

But the legislation has other significant shortcomings. The legislation also makes no meaningful change to the immunity provisions. There is little disagreement that the legislation effectively grants retroactive immunity to the telecommunications companies. In my judgment, immunity under these circumstances has the practical effect of shutting down a critical avenue for holding the administration accountable for its conduct. It is precisely why I have supported efforts in the Senate to strip the bill of these provisions, both today and during previous debates on this subject. Unfortunately, these efforts have been unsuccessful.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Clinton_Obama_split_on_wiretap_vote_0709.html

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
17. That's the subject you initially responded to.
Wed Feb 25, 2015, 02:13 AM
Feb 2015

You seem to think that somehow Obama could live up to promises to reign in spying on citizens when he voted for policy that strengthened spying on citizens. Anyone could've predicted the outcome.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
13. At least Wyden stood by his principles and voted for cloture on the reform bill
Tue Feb 24, 2015, 05:57 PM
Feb 2015

while big-talking gutless wonders like Rand Paul bitched out at the last minute...So I got respect for him...

Cloture fell just two votes short...

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