Why Do Americans Feel Entitled to Tell Poor People What to Eat?

[eridani]

http://www.thenation.com/blog/198369/why-do-americans-feel-entitled-tell-poor-what-eat

Why do people think they’re entitled to decide how food stamps, in particular, are used? Not all government benefits elicit such feelings. When we give people assistance through the home-mortgage interest deduction, we don’t feel entitled to tell them what house to buy or what neighborhood to live in; when we subsidize a college education through student loans, we don’t tell students what school to go to or what to major in. When we tax capital gains income at a lower rate than income made from labor, we certainly don’t tell those stock pickers what to do with the extra cash.

One big difference is that mortgage and student loan help usually comes in the form of tax credits, part of what political scientist Suzanne Mettler has dubbed the “submerged state.” Benefits delivered through a tax break or subsidy to a private entity, rather than an EBT card or check, are made invisible to those who use them and everyone around them. Even Medicare, one of the largest government programs, is often delivered through private insurance, thus masking the fact that it’s a benefit. Mettler conducted a survey in 2008 that found that, while 57 percent of people said they’d never used a government program, 94 percent of those who denied it had benefited from at least one, usually one that was “submerged.”

The reason people in line at a grocery store get to feel morally superior to someone on food stamps is because she has to whip out a card that tells the world that she gets assistance buying food. No such card exists when applying for a mortgage or getting a federally subsidized student loan.

The other difference, of course, is that food stamps help the poor. (Tax expenditures, including mortgage assistance, overwhelmingly help the wealthy.) And the poor are assumed to be poor because they’re bad with money. More often than not, they’re poor because they can’t get work that pays them enough to not be poor. And they’re not any worse with their money than the rest of the country. In fact, low-income Americans spend larger percentages of their budgets on the necessities like housing, utilities, transportation and home-cooked food. The richest 20 percent spend more on “luxuries” like eating out and entertainment. The rich even spend more of their budgets on alcoholic beverages—so much for poor people’s wasteful spending on fine wine

[Proud Liberal Dem]

1. Furthermore

It's not as if poor people can afford to buy "healthy" food. However, usually, the "concern" tends to be that people on Food Stamps are getting Steak and Crab and eating better than the rest of us hard-working stiffs (see Reagan's Cadillac welfare queens)

[AZ Progressive]

2. I've detected that snobbery for awhile, healthy food is simply not calorie or satiety intensive

compared to junk and not as healthy food. Fruits and vegetables are expensive on a calorie basis. A nice big salad costs at least $4 in Costco and $5 in Mcdonalds, and if you are poor or on food stamps your budget is likely $5 a day or less for food. A super healthy salad in Whole Foods, if you want it to be filling, costs at least $7 for a 0.75 pound salad, not to mention likely being many miles away in the rich part of the city. Organic food at the market is too expensive for poor people.

[BlueJazz]

3. My input would be: This food that they're buying may be the only bright spot/thing in their life.

We SHOULD give them healthy food for free and then give them a card (with less money) so that they can buy treats, ice cream or whatever.

I mean, fuck..when I give people money, I want them to enjoy it 'cause that may be the only joyful thing in their life.

[PasadenaTrudy]

19. That's how I feel, too

You have to have something, no matter how small, to look forward to.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

31. I'd like to see subsidized/free community restaurants.

Make them open to anyone who wants to eat there, and tie them to free clinics so people can have some input on whether they need to make specific choices for diabetic diets, low protein diets, etc.

[ND-Dem]

4. K&R. I've always been annoyed by this.

[Initech]

5. Six simple words: "I've got mine, so fuck you."

That's the American economy in a nutshell.

[SheilaT]

6. This isn't anything new.

Immigrants to this country were usually chided that their traditional foods were bad and they needed to adopt an American diet. It happens over and over.

This is also connected to the fact that in this country we tend to demonize certain foods. Which ones will vary over time. In reality, no one food is evil, no one food is perfect. Eating an appropriately varied menu is always good. However, even those of us who aren't severely restricted in what we can spend on food, are still shaped by what we grew up eating. If you then add in any combination of a limited food budge, little knowledge or opportunity to cook "from scratch", and a limited food budget (yes, I'm deliberately saying this twice), you are going to have a diet that may not be the best. Probably the very best thing that could be done for the poor is to give them a whole lot more food assistance.

In a related vein, I do volunteer work helping to feed the homeless in my city. Because I enjoy cooking, and because I've learned how to cook for large numbers, I do think I'm helping our homeless get decent nutrition, at least when we feed them.

[eridani]

23. A plug for Sheila's recipes in Cooking and Baking

Lots of yummy soups you can make in large quantities.

[Wellstone ruled]

7. Ronald Raygun started this crap.

Remember Kudlow and other Cabinet Members running their mouths off about peoples diet and assumed habits.

[rhett o rick]

8. When you don't have enough food for your family, do you go for quality or

quantity? I volunteer at a foodbank. I have found that people want to eat healthy but it's expensive. Also, once in the cycle of poverty people don't learn how to cook healthy foods. People turn down dry beans because they don't know what to do with them. I've seen people turn down sweet potatoes or squash because they didn't know how to cook them. We give out recipes and encourage people to try cooking healthy. Some don't have access to a kitchen but maybe a hotplate. Some live in group homes and have limited refrigerator access. All these things determine what people buy.

[shenmue]

30. I volunteered at a food bank too

Good place.

[rhett o rick]

32. Very rewarding. About 80% of our work is done by volunteers many are

clients of the foodbank.

[joshcryer]

44. Interesting food bank that allowed people to turn down food.

Much less that offered perishables.

Growing up it was always canned goods, powdered milk, and perhaps cheese would be the only thing that would require a fridge. Everything else was room-storable. We all got our own package, no "choice" in what we were allowed to get.

Later on I helped run a food bank and non-perishables are the only things we would accept, canned goods, dried goods, powdered goods.

[Kalidurga]

9. If only it stopped there.

It's not just people on food stamps. The working poor are also assumed to be spending their money unwisely. And it's not just that people assume they can tell poor people what to eat. They will say poor people shouldn't have children or even have sex because they could end up having a child. They think poor people shouldn't go to movies. Poor people are assumed to be uneducated, but most the poor people I know have at least a two year degree a few have a Bachelors. I know quite a few that were fairly well off and had owned a business who now work as sales clerks for various reasons, one was divorced so she opted out of the business she had with her husband, one was sick for a prolonged period her business didn't recover she did. There are a lot of people who think they have the right to tell poor people they are doing it wrong. Same people who have catastrophic events happen to them think they are the exception, not the rule. I have news for them they are likely the rule rather than the exception.

[flvegan]

10. ...Bryce Covert, grow up.

[freshwest]

11. Because they are petty, self-rightous, crass, stupid and have no sense of boundaries.

I truly pity those who use these cards, the fact that they are in financial straits makes their detractors feel inordinately proud and accomplished, when they are nothing but immature losers.

To be scrutinized by the public eye for any transaction shows how nosy, ignorant and vindictive segments of the population are. I am blessed to live in what is for now, a liberal working class area where people don't have the time or inclination to look down on others on these things.

We do have some Libertarian assholes making headway and they are congenitally incapable of not showing their sociopathic tendencies whenever they think they can get away with bullying someone. You can see they really get off to it.

BTW, I don't like people fucking with the poor, disabled, elderly or any other group, in case it doesn't show by my language.

There is no logical reason for the harrassment that EBT users are no doubt getting in some areas.

[Warpy]

27. I don't feel pity, I feel a sense of relief

that some of my tax money is doing something useful rather than paying fat cats to produce bombs to incinerate brown people on the other side of the planet.

Do I look at what they're buying? Yes, if I'm bored, but I look at cash purchases, too. I also understand what I'm looking at since I've had real periods of poverty in my life. That dollar fruit flavored soda from Wally's will give the kids a treat and some of it has a little Vitamin C in it. The bologna will be put onto day old balloon bread for suppers the nights before the next deposit comes in for that EBT card. That bag of chips will be doled out to the kids a few at a time for lunches on the weekends, not inhaled by Himself in his recliner chair in one sitting during a football game. Poor folks buy the stuff that will keep the kids happy and keep their stomachs from hurting for the longest period of time. Poor quality food does that.

[stillwaiting]

12. Because far too many Americans are assholes. Far too many.

It's been instilled in our hyper-individualistic society purposefully, and it's made tearing down our economic way of life ridiculously easy.

It's why I sometimes feel so disconnected from the society I live in.

[ileus]

13. Because we think we're dietitians since it's easy to read a label.

We know better than them, thus we need to control their dietary intake. It's for healthy living...

[Nuclear Unicorn]

14. Some people are just meddlers/controllers and it's not just directed at the poor, i.e.

Bloomberg's ban on large sodas.

[Exhibit A]

17. +1, n/t

[bemildred]

15. Looking down on the poor is one of the main perks of being rich.

In fact without lots of poor needy people they might not think they were special at all, the rich.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. Straight Americans feel they have the right to trash talk LGBT Americans and tell us how to live.

Why is that? Even in this Party, Straight Democrats are more than willing to defend the likes of Rick 'they are all pedophiles' Warren when he attacks LGBT Democrats.
Why is that?

[KG]

18. Why Do Americans Feel Entitled?

[PasadenaTrudy]

20. Where I live

here in trendy SoCal and you are white, if you don't eat entirely organic, non-GMO, gluten-free, etc., you aren't "doing it right." My parents were born in the midwest in the early 1920s. I grew up pretty neglected ( mentally ill mother ), so McDonald's was a common meal. Also no fresh fruits or veg, just canned. Lots of sweets, too. So, now at 51, I am eating a little better, but old habits die hard. I'm pretty meat and potatoes. It's just kind of funny the looks I get when I'm shopping. And no, I don't do yoga or pilates either

[grilled onions]

21. If You Get Food On My Dime I Want You To Suffer Mentality

They get so high and mighty when the poor actually get a morsel of free food that they become indignant at the very idea. I would love to think that a child may get a birthday cupcake on their special day. They must get so sad when year after year they hear those words "I'm sorry but mama doesn't have the money to buy you a cake,cupcake--most likely not even a box of cookies. Meanwhile many of those of the have's chortle over this. Money has not made them any happier but as long as they have control over those at the bottom, they feel giddy. Tis' the pity for them. They will never be happy if they judge happiness by having more than many who have nothing at all.

[romanic]

22. It;s more common than you think.

I've seen the general snobbery of those who look down at people who used EBT cards. One time I was grocery shopping at Kroger's and the customer ahead of me was buying a gallon of milk and a box of tea. When she pulled her card out, the very snotty cashier heaved and asked aloud, "Another one?". I guess she had several people using EBT cards prior to this woman (who must have been over 60) and was just annoyed at having to deal with "another one". That lady looked so dehumanized and what's worst, she didn't have enough money in the card. I just went ahead, paid for it and gave that brat cashier a good mean mugging.

There's just a general ignorance when it comes to foodstamps. A lot of folks think EBT users are just lazy abusers who contribute nothing to society. But in reality, most of them have fallen on hard times and are doing the best that they can. If they want to buy lobster or name-brand ice cream, then so what? Better for them to buy it then to let all that food sit in the shelves going to waste.

[closeupready]

24. Welcome to American society.

I was born in the most whitebread part of the US, but almost all my friends are non-Americans. Our society is so lame, and this facet reflects it. Can't be bothered to socialize with hypocrites who - as the article points out - are big-time government welfare beneficiaries in the form of a mortgage interest deduction, and then turn around and begrudge their poor neighbor $100 in food stamps.

[ARMYofONE]

25. People pay back food stamps?

Poor analogies, there. Home loans require repayment and are collateralized debt. Student loans require repayment and are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. Food stamps are largesse, pure and simple.

[choie]

28. "largesse????"

Um...have you ever heard of "the commons"? We, as tax payers, pay for this safety net. I sure as hell hope YOU don't ever need this "largesse" in your life. If you do, I hope you are met with the same empathy that you exhibit to those in need.

[ARMYofONE]

34. Yes, avoid the substance of my post, and accuse me of lacking empathy.

The examples given in the article are useless as points of comparison, because repayment is expected with both home loans and student loans. Food assistance is, from a legal standpoint, a gift, as it requires no repayment or other consideration. That is the definition of largesse.

And no, I do not suspect that I will ever need government assistance because I work hard, live frugally and have saved well. I am a maker, not a taker.

[choie]

35. famous last words

n/t

[Skittles]

39. OK, how about wasting money wars based on lies?

when will we see THAT money again and I am talking about TRILLIONS

[ladyVet]

42. I worked hard, lived frugally and saved what I could.

I raised three kids on my own on low-paying jobs. Despite my best efforts, life still kicked me in the face and I ended up with nothing (well, the kids turned out okay, so I have that).

It's easy to sit back and feel superior when your life is going great. Good for you. You're lucky. Come back when your job is outsourced, or the company closes and the area is in a recession so there's nothing else that pays that good, or you or a loved one gets a chronic illness, or you get divorced and the spouse bails on the kids, or whatever happens that kicks you in the face. Maybe you won't be an asshole about it then.

I think you're on the wrong message boards.

[alarimer]

45. You do lack empathy.

You would begrudge someone a decent meal and call it a "gift" instead of something we should do out of basic humanity.

[gollygee]

47. You have had the privilege of being able to find work that pays well enough

Not everyone who wants to work is able to find work, and a great number of people work very hard but still need food stamps to get by.

Yes, you lack empathy.

[LTX]

52. As a "maker not a taker," what is it that you make? n/t

[quaker bill]

38. poor analogy

Home loans and student loans require repayment minus the subsidy. The subsidy is every bit as much "largesse" as food stamps, pure and simple. Money is money, whether you get it on a card or as a discount on your repayment.

[daleanime]

26. Far too common....

[shenmue]

29. Yeah

[daredtowork]

33. The EBT Card was a step up from actual food stamps

At least it's somewhat discrete. But I still stopped going to the neighborhood grocery where the cashiers knew me when I started using it. Also it's very embarrassing when something goes wrong with it and you hold up the whole line while the cashier runs items back and forth trying to get the card to clear right. Or he/she announces to the whole world that the card was rejected (because social services screwed something up).

It does feel wrong to buy luxury food items with that card. While in theory I could buy dessert foods, I never do. That would make it look like I'm poor because I'm an "unhealthy eater". I would also never use half the card buying filet mignon (I don't eat red meat anyway, so I'm just guessing that's expensive). Then the cashier would think I'm not prudent with money. Potato chips? Never - that's junk food. I self-censor a lot when I use my EBT card.

This is probably exactly what the taxpaying public and the medical establishment is hoping for, and it might be worth something if my situation were indeed being caused by poor lifestyle choices. However, I've always been a pretty healthy eater. Food is one of the few things I've had control over in my life. My health problems come from other factors. A little luxury might actually do me some good by relieving some stress, but the social pressures induce my EBT card spartanism.

[aikoaiko]

36. Fed subsidized loans are limited to accredited colleges

[Tree-Hugger]

37. 'Murica

Last edited Mon Feb 23, 2015, 01:39 PM - Edit history (1)

They bitch if you buy a steak. They bitch if you buy ice cream. They bitch if you buy ramen. They bitch if you buy soda. They bitch if you buy organic fruit. They bitch if you buy whole wheat bread. They bitch if you buy a bag of pretzels.

They don't care WHAT you eat. They care that you are poor and that you have the nerve to exist in the same airspace as them.

My family had needed food stamps. By the way, we are makers, not takers. We work hard, but we live in a culture that thinks slave labor is A-OK. I buy a wide variety of different foods and I make most things from scratch, but I will buy snack food now and then. My kids go through enough shit living in poverty - I'll be damned if some ignorant twit tells me I can't treat them to ice cream now and then. I even bought them birthday cupcakes once - organic and from Whole Foods. Clutch those pearls!

[gollygee]

48. I've got to give a big +1 to that first paragaph

There was an article where people were complaining about a woman who bought grapes!

[Tree-Hugger]

53. I believe it

I have heard/read people complaining about every single type of food.

[Recursion]

40. I disagree with the first paragraph; we do tell non-white people where to buy homes

with the home mortgage deduction. We're actually incredibly eloquent that way.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. It's magical thinking

I've noticed that a lot of people who rag on the poor have stories about how they used to be poor and worked their way out of it, so why can't those other people do it?
They tell themselves how different they are from the poor, and they think it will protect them from ever becoming destitute.
Either that or they're just assholes.

[ladyVet]

43. I'm pretty sure they're just assholes!

There's something about humans that makes them need to feel superior. Whether it's based on color, ethnic culture, sexual orientation, gender, career, wealth, some have to have someone they can look at and say, hey, they're not me. Sad, really. If we don't get over it, it's going to kill us off.

I was born poor, and have lived most of my adult life poor. I've had two brief periods where I was making decent money, but I wasn't able to keep those jobs (mostly through my own mistakes, but there were outside things I had no control over that ultimately won out).

When I had money to spare, I'd usually buy food, or get needed items bought (a TV that worked, a better car, quality clothes for the kids, get everybody's teeth fixed, like that -- never anything extravagant). I saved whatever was left, and when times were bad I had a tiny cushion that helped get me through.

I'm buying the same stuff now that I was before I needed SNAP. Over the years, I've taught myself to cook from scratch and make healthier meals, but I've had the time, the opportunity and the facilities to do that. I'm lucky. When I look at what people buy (anybody, not just poor people), I'm sad to see so much "junk" in their carts, like boxed food and frozen entrees, and nasty snack foods loaded with chemicals.

I wish I could talk to them about buying basic ingredients and cooking stuff themselves. But I don't know their circumstances, if they have time or a way to find recipes, whether they have adequate cooking facilities or not, if they have to take care of an ill child or parent or spouse. If they work two or three part time jobs just to keep the lights on and a roof over their heads.

It's not my place to judge others. If I can help, I do. I try to show relatives how to save money on groceries, or how to eat better so they feel better, but ultimately it's up to them to do what they think is best for them in their situation.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

50. Back when I was a graduate student, I belonged to the New Haven Food Co-op

(I don't think it exists anymore, at least not under that name.) It was mostly an ordinary supermarket, but to shop there someone from your household had to volunteer four hours a month

At any rate, it was located near the boundaries of a couple of different neighborhoods, so its customers were of every economic and cultural background.

One of the things they did, along with catering to the different cultures (Orthodox Jewish, Puerto Rican, African-American, Italian, Greek), was feature classes on how to cook on a low budget. They even had a contest for "the best recipe with ingredients costing $1.00 or less," which was quite feasible in those days.

I think a whole generation or two lost cooking skills. When I was in junior high, two years of home ec. were required (just for girls in my day, but a few years later, they started requiring both boys and girls to take both home ec. and shop), which was a good thing, because my mother and grandmother were so protective of the kitchen that they hardly let me use it. But my situation was exceptional. Most of my classmates were already helping their mothers make dinner by the time they reached junior high.

When women started entering the workforce in large numbers, it was just easier to order take-out or go through the drive-through than to spend time and energy cooking or getting family members to cook. So that's what? Thirty or forty years of people not learning how to cook from scratch.

That's why I wish more supermarkets and co-ops had cooking classes.

Alas, most of the food co-ops in the Twin Cities are located in neighborhoods that are at least middle class if not affluent, like mine, which does offer classes in cooking, nutrition, and health. But it's located in a neighborhood that might be intimidating for a poor person.

[alarimer]

46. Because Americans are jerks, by and large.

It's "screw you, I've got mine".

"We're makers, not takers." Bullshit. Those are code words for the sentence above.

[HappyMe]

49. Petty, self righteous and just plain

assholes. Poor people get treated like they are little kids at times. People should just mind their own damn business.

[Bettie]

51. I'm on a 'moms' forum

And the women there, who are all supposedly mothers, are vicious about people on any kind of assistance.

They freak out at the thought of a kid having a birthday cake because "if they can afford a cake, they can afford not to be on food stamps/cash assistance/WIC, etc.

Of course, they also state with great regularity that instead of food stamps (what's it called now?) poor folk should be issued a bag of brown rice and a bag of beans monthly.

For me, I'd rather have people fed. It is none of my business how they manage their food budget.

It makes me really sad that a person would begrudge someone else a meal.

[dilby]

54. The same reason they feel entitled to tell over weight people what to eat.

I always laugh when someone makes a comment at a fast food restaurant about an overweight person who is eating there, it's like you know you are eating the same exact shit they are so maybe you need to take your own advice.