Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:43 PM Feb 2015

Charles P Pierce- Drums Along The Potomac: How This Country Never Learns Anything

Quite frankly, this has been one of the more depressing weeks we have seen in a very long time. The country seems to be sliding down some very familiar tracks into a military engagement in the Middle East -- an engagement that, at the moment, seems to be cloudy in its objectives, vague in its outlines, and obscure on the simple fact of what we are supposedly fighting for, and who we will be fighting with. Can we fight the Islamic State generally without help from (gasp!) Iran? Can we fight the Islamic State in Syria without a de facto alliance with Hafez al-Assad, who was Hitler only a year or so ago? And the most recent polling seems to indicate that all the institutions that are supposed to act as a brake on war powers within a self-governing republic are working in reverse again. The Congress is going to debate how much leeway it should give the president to make war, not whether he should be allowed to do it at all. The elite media, having scared Americans to death by giving the barbarians and their slaughter porn the international platform the barbarians so desired, is jumping on board with both feet. (To cite only one example, Chris Matthews is suiting up again.) The country has been prepared to give its children up again. At the very least, public opinion on what we should do is a muddle, which means that any plan that looks "bold" likely will carry the country with it, unintended consequences be damned.With the intelligence all pointing toward bin Laden, Rumsfeld ordered the military to begin working on strike plans.

Amid more executions by the militant group ISIS, Americans increasingly see the group as a threat to the U.S. Now, 65 percent of Americans view ISIS as a major threat - up from 58 percent in October - while another 18 percent view it as a minor threat. Majorities of Republicans (86 percent), Democrats (61 percent) and independents (57 percent) view ISIS as a major threat. Support for sending U.S. ground troops to fight ISIS has risen among all partisans, but particularly among Democrats and independents. Back in October, 56 percent of Democrats and 49 percent of independents disapproved of using ground troops - now 50 percent of Democrats approve and 53 percent of independents favor using ground troops.

You can see the logical canyon, can you not? The Islamic State is no more an actual threat to the United States than it was in October. But there have been more garish executions and more events elsewhere, so the perceived threat -- real or not -- has begun to work its dark magic on the national imagination, the way that aluminum tubes and mushroom clouds once did. The more bellicose of our leaders are openly shilling for a general engagement on the ground; the inevitable John McCain inevitably has called for a "mere" 10,000 ground troops, and he wants those troops to help fight against both the Islamic State and Assad. Because...do something!

You develop a strategy and elements of the strategy are American boots on the ground and not the 82nd Airborne, the president keeps setting up these straw man saying we want to send in masses of American troops, we don't, but we need to have American..air controllers, special forces, many others. I'm talking about about ten thousand in Iraq. Then we need to say our objective is to eliminate Bashar Assad as well as ISIS in Syria and we recruit a other Arab nations with Americans but not too many to fight against ISIS and Bashar Assad in Syria and coordinate those movements with air power guided by air controllers.


So the mission already is creeping; hell, Congressman Ed Royce, who only chairs the House Foreign Relations Committee, wants the proposed authorization for the use of military force to include Iran. And god only knows what happens if the Islamic State grabs a couple of those 10,000 American ground troops and uses them for another snuff film.

more

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a33248/drums-along-the-potomac-how-this-country-never-learns-anything/
31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Charles P Pierce- Drums Along The Potomac: How This Country Never Learns Anything (Original Post) n2doc Feb 2015 OP
Honestly, we should just keep doing what we're doing--slowly halting ISIS, TwilightGardener Feb 2015 #1
The televised, twitterized marym625 Feb 2015 #7
I wonder why we are not seeing the even WORSE brutality currently being inflicted by sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #25
They know that the American people don't want to see ground troops TwilightGardener Feb 2015 #27
Yes, I agree with why we are focusing on ONE place while ignoring others, IF our reasons were sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #31
amen to that! marym625 Feb 2015 #2
You should check this out n2doc Feb 2015 #5
Institute the draft with ZERO deferments... randys1 Feb 2015 #3
^^^ what he said 4_TN_TITANS Feb 2015 #4
Agreed. People love war because they don't know what it is. (nt) enough Feb 2015 #11
+! - Been saying that for years! n/t markpkessinger Feb 2015 #10
If it's important enough to send combat forces, it's important enough KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #19
Doktor Goebbels would be so proud of his successors hifiguy Feb 2015 #6
ain't they though marym625 Feb 2015 #8
Totally stupicidal and ignorantly arrogant. TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #9
Maybe the MSM can,,, Cryptoad Feb 2015 #12
All I can say is K&R mountain grammy Feb 2015 #13
+1 BrotherIvan Feb 2015 #14
But ISIS is ASKING for it. Octafish Feb 2015 #15
K&R. Paladin Feb 2015 #16
Or maybe it really is a different world today. randome Feb 2015 #17
"Chris Matthews is suiting up again." Paladin Feb 2015 #18
Ship of fools on a cruel sea. eom JEB Feb 2015 #20
Sigh. Please don't tell me I'm going to have to spend another 8 years of KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #21
It's all the same war what we protested was legs of it and since the legs TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #22
Thanks for that uplifting message! :) - nt KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #23
Sorry, reality is not always inspiring but it is a win to understand where you are and where others TheKentuckian Feb 2015 #24
Declare war, start the draft, raise taxes gwheezie Feb 2015 #26
K&R Solly Mack Feb 2015 #28
We don't learn from our mistakes, we learn mistakes... alterfurz Feb 2015 #29
We're seriously going to learn that the hard way if we elect another Bush. Initech Feb 2015 #30

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
1. Honestly, we should just keep doing what we're doing--slowly halting ISIS,
Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:53 PM
Feb 2015

slowly bleeding them, slowly denying them the ability to replenish supplies/make money. But people see beheadings and other televised brutality and get impatient and antsy, even though it impacts them NOT AT ALL. There's brutality all over the place--are we going to put troops (beyond special forces/intelligence) in Libya? Yemen? Nigeria?

marym625

(17,997 posts)
7. The televised, twitterized
Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:49 PM
Feb 2015

Beheadings , etc, are just current day WMD. I don't mean they're not actually doing that to people. I mean the media hype to justify the war.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
25. I wonder why we are not seeing the even WORSE brutality currently being inflicted by
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 03:43 PM
Feb 2015

Boka Haram on thousands of innocent people?

The fake War in Iraq was very lucrative. The ending of that money maker for Defense Contractors was not going to make them happy.

We should have expected this fight to start it all over again.

What I didn't expect, was that Democrats would fall for it all over again.

Having control of the media, has made it all so easy for them.

Cut school lunches, we don't have money to take care of our children, but there is an endless supply of money for all these wars that, according to Feinstein and Rogers, who inadvertently admitted while trying to drum up 'fear' again, that we in 'FAR MORE DANGER' now that EVER.

Sometimes they just get caught up in their own lies that they end up telling the truth, but the Corporate Media, deliberately glosses over the truth when it emerges, however unintentionally, and refuses to question the war mongers.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
27. They know that the American people don't want to see ground troops
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 04:09 PM
Feb 2015

fighting in Africa--visceral Blackhawk Down associations. Plus, we don't have the relatively easy ability to slide back into a footprint/occupation in Nigeria, etc. the way we do in Iraq. The demand for ground troops, fueled by the MIC/GOP/Media, is because there is no real money to be made by dropping bombs and missiles and letting native forces take over (IOW, what we're doing now, which is slowly working). Ground troops = contracts with KBR, etc. = money.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
31. Yes, I agree with why we are focusing on ONE place while ignoring others, IF our reasons were
Sun Feb 22, 2015, 12:53 AM
Feb 2015

humanitarian in nature. My point is, that atrocities are not why we were starting the Iraq War all over again.

Not to mention the original plans regarding the ME as laid out in the Project for a New American Century.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
2. amen to that!
Fri Feb 20, 2015, 07:56 PM
Feb 2015

I am flabbergasted at this. The poll I put up has 17% saying yes to this war. Here.

The "collateral damage" aka human lives, will be astronomical. There's no way around it without set boarders and obvious enemy. It's a horror among horrors were getting into and will be the main cause.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
19. If it's important enough to send combat forces, it's important enough
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 11:54 AM
Feb 2015

that the children of the rich and upper-middle class shoulder their share of the burden.

It's not and they won't. They will, like Cheney, always have 'other priorities.' (As though the children of the working class don't also have other priorities.)

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
6. Doktor Goebbels would be so proud of his successors
Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:42 PM
Feb 2015

in the M$M. "Sheeple" is a gross overestimation of the intelligence of the US populace.

No air power, no navy, much less a deep-water navy, no missiles. There are sound moral reasons to exterminate ISIL, though the US has in the past installed, armed, and supported worse, but that they "pose a threat" to the continental US is about the billionth reason on the list. Boy, people are dumb.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
8. ain't they though
Fri Feb 20, 2015, 08:52 PM
Feb 2015

And even those that are not dumb seem to want to believe that this US involvement is justified and necessary.

Someone actually said on a post of mine "we need to fight them there so we don't have to fight them here." Sound familiar?

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
14. +1
Fri Feb 20, 2015, 11:24 PM
Feb 2015

I'm so tired of the bloodthirstiness of my fellow citizens. Yeah sure, they say, I want war because I can still go home at night and order a pizza, doesn't bother me. Just some brown people way far away. Who cares?

Don't pay attention to the man behind the curtain, i.e. all the world leaders who showed up to kiss the Saudi king's dead ass. Maybe they can get the Saud to do something.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
15. But ISIS is ASKING for it.
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 10:38 AM
Feb 2015

"Terrorism is the best political weapon for for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death." -- A Hitler

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
17. Or maybe it really is a different world today.
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 11:41 AM
Feb 2015

And trying to judge it in yesterday's context doesn't help.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

Paladin

(28,262 posts)
18. "Chris Matthews is suiting up again."
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 11:48 AM
Feb 2015

Amen, Charlie. Matthews was always borderline watchable; now he's not watchable at all.

Another superb write-up by Mr. Pierce. He's right: we never learn anything from past mistakes.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
21. Sigh. Please don't tell me I'm going to have to spend another 8 years of
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 12:46 PM
Feb 2015

my life protesting yet another imperial debacle. Iraq and Afghanistan were 8 years too much. Good thing I kept all my anti-war signs in our storage unit - may be time to start pulling them out of the mothballs.

TheKentuckian

(25,026 posts)
22. It's all the same war what we protested was legs of it and since the legs
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 01:30 PM
Feb 2015

also never actually ended other than for marketing purposes the signs didn't need to be in storage anyway.

TheKentuckian

(25,026 posts)
24. Sorry, reality is not always inspiring but it is a win to understand where you are and where others
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 03:22 PM
Feb 2015

actually stand when the rubber meets the road.

Another sad point is our protests are of little to no impact, they just give us a sense of doing something which provides an outlet to prevent boiling over in ways that are easy to ignore, ridicule, or attack if need be.

The Civil Rights and the anti Vietnam movements are silly models to follow today. There are no better angels to effectively appeal to and no guilt to work on nor does nearly everyone share in someway in the pain of the wars.

Playing paddycake will yield expected results.

gwheezie

(3,580 posts)
26. Declare war, start the draft, raise taxes
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 03:56 PM
Feb 2015

Nationalize private industry to support the war effort. The vote and draft might be easy to get but raising taxes and the government taking over the oil companies would put a stop to it quick.

alterfurz

(2,474 posts)
29. We don't learn from our mistakes, we learn mistakes...
Sat Feb 21, 2015, 05:26 PM
Feb 2015

The only thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history. -- Martin Heidegger


Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Charles P Pierce- Drums A...