ISIS successfully recruiting more and more young western Muslim women...

[Surya Gayatri]

Last edited Fri Feb 20, 2015, 01:55 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31554844

Three missing east London schoolgirls are feared to be travelling to Syria via Turkey, police say.


CCTV captured the girls passing through security at Gatwick Airport

Shamima Begum, 15, Kadiza Sultana, 16, and an unnamed 15-year-old, who are all pupils at Bethnal Green Academy, flew from Gatwick to Istanbul on Tuesday, during their half-term break.

Commander Richard Walton said he was concerned about UK girls intent on joining terror group Islamic State.
.../

He said the force was becoming "increasingly concerned" about a growing trend of young girls showing an interest or intent in joining Islamic State.

"The choice of returning home from Syria is often taken away from those under the control of Islamic State, leaving their families in the UK devastated and with very few options to secure their safe return," he said.


Kadiza Sultana, aged 16, is the oldest of the trio, who are all in the same school year


Shamima Begum, 15, could be travelling under the name of Aklima Begum, police said.

_________________

15 and 16 year-olds, and they're making radical life-changing decisions based on web propaganda designed to appear as an exciting adventure.

To them it probably seems like a virtual video game, but one which is about to get very real.

The needless waste of promising young lives may be the greatest tragedy of this whole mess.

It's happening all over France, as well, in the notoriously disaffected 'banlieues' of the big cities.

Still, young females appear to be less susceptible to the siren call of 'jihad' than males, due largely to the fact that they tend to do better at school and to be more employable.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/09/isis-appeal-women-manifesto-propaganda

"Women can recruit women better than Isis can

"Well, imagine you’re a Muslim female youth. Like any young person, you’re trying to figure out who you are, you’re feeling alienated from your parents, your teachers, and others in your local community, and you’re confused about how to reconcile your religion and modern life in a post-9/11 world.

Now imagine you’re confronted with answers to your questions that seem to speak confidently about religious obligation, motherhood and family; that give your life a sense of purpose; and that invite you to contribute to a cause. Imagine, too, that this narrative embodies the same kind of spirit and activism that catalyses young people to action around any social issue. Imagine you have a leading part to play in a saga of romance and war. All of a sudden, the manifesto and the narrative around it don’t seem so bizarre after all."


ISIS is using alarmingly effective propaganda aimed at a very vulnerable target audience.

[geek tragedy]

1. Better that they leave to fulfill their destiny over there rather than become

a cancer within and commit terrorist acts against their own country.

They won't do much damage over there, probably more of a burden to ISIL actually.

Zero resources should be expended trying to recover them.

[randys1]

2. Wow

[jamzrockz]

9. I rarely agree with him

but if you are a point in your life where you think doing anything for ISIS is your life calling, then I rather you get dealt with over there than be danger over here. I just pray that they Syria army get the strength to deal with these new set of idiots.

I cannot image what anyone sees in these nation destroyers.

Viva SAA

[randys1]

11. These are stupid kids, there is a difference

[Surya Gayatri]

19. Exactly, they're little more than kids, 15-16. God knows, anybody

at that age can be an easy target for manipulation and is subject to bad judgment.

[cwydro]

34. They must be halfwits

not to know what is waiting for them there.

[Surya Gayatri]

37. Out of control hormones, the need to rebel and slick

video-game style propaganda--all this can make people influenceable. IQ has nothing to do with it.

[cwydro]

40. I was quoting my elderly mother actually,

but I tend to agree with her.

Meet you halfway and call them foolish?

[Surya Gayatri]

45. Ah, the folly of youth...

[cwydro]

49. Yeah, I was pretty damn foolish too,

but I never faced the consequences these poor girls will face.

I just imagine the horror when they see what is planned for them.

I just don't understand where they get recruited...Do these ISIS creeps somehow find their FB pages?

It's a mystery to me.

[Surya Gayatri]

62. Apparently, according to other accounts I've read,

Last edited Fri Feb 20, 2015, 04:03 PM - Edit history (1)

ISIS has a whole ministry of propaganda worthy of Goebbels, where they tag-team potential recruits with e-mails, tweets, facebook postings, texting, etc. etc. They've got some pretty sophisticated personnel.

[riderinthestorm]

72. I would guess they get a line on the recruiting sites thru the mosque

that appears to be the jumping off point with the young Muslim men as well.

It's why the western governments keeps going back to monitoring activities at the mosque Imho - because they know the pipeline connections must originate there.

[tabasco]

94. Nope. Sorry.

They're imbeciles and will always be imbeciles.

[TheKentuckian]

93. You think the vast majority of the home grown types aren't stupid kids (many literally children)?

Shit, many of the leaders are probably stupid kids or little more than that.

[samsingh]

80. agreed

[Man from Pickens]

3. There's a nightmare in store for them

They will be sold as sex slaves like so many other captured women in the area.

[geek tragedy]

4. Meh. Sign up with the most evil cause on the planet, karma.

They won't get their chance to behead aid workers or burn people alive. Not gonna feel sorry for them for the bad consequences they incur in an attempt to do so.

[Surya Gayatri]

8. Have a little understanding for the vulnerabilities of the young...

"Well, imagine you’re a Muslim female youth. Like any young person, you’re trying to figure out who you are, you’re feeling alienated from your parents, your teachers, and others in your local community, and you’re confused about how to reconcile your religion and modern life in a post-9/11 world.

Now imagine you’re confronted with answers to your questions that seem to speak confidently about religious obligation, motherhood and family; that give your life a sense of purpose; and that invite you to contribute to a cause. Imagine, too, that this narrative embodies the same kind of spirit and activism that catalyses young people to action around any social issue. Imagine you have a leading part to play in a saga of romance and war. All of a sudden, the manifesto and the narrative around it don’t seem so bizarre after all."


ISIS is using alarmingly effective propaganda aimed at a very vulnerable target audience.

[geek tragedy]

15. The targets are well aware of what ISIS does to 'infidels.'

This is the same phenomenon we see in white supremacist gangs.

Those who find appeal in beheading infidels are generally undesirables whose removal from society is a benefit.

[Man from Pickens]

13. that's pretty cold

Girls don't deserve to be raped because they are young and ignorant - there's no way they could possibly have a serious understanding of the situation they are getting into.

[geek tragedy]

18. Not saying they deserve it, but they're putting themselves in danger out of a desire

to massacre infidels.

Sorry if my sympathy tank is running on empty. But, I feel about as much pity as I do for the males who join up as cannon fodder and then get Hellfired in a jeep.

[Surya Gayatri]

22. Agree, a case of egregiously bad judgment.

[samsingh]

82. we're not saying they deserve to be raped - we're saying it's going to happen and they are

on their way to support mass murderers.

[samsingh]

81. neither am i

they are supporting mass murderers.

[Surya Gayatri]

5. True about the 'home-grown' terrorist threat...

But, they are allowing themselves to be manipulated by an insidious ideology and are likely to destroy their lives and their families' as well.

The Guardian article (link at the bottm) discusses this at length.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/09/isis-appeal-women-manifesto-propaganda

[geek tragedy]

10. The target is people who were never truly at home in western civilization.

If a person is motivated to go over and assist in head-chopping and crucifixions and massacres, they were never really part of our society and certainly were never going to be productive members of it.

Birds of a feather flock together.

[Fumesucker]

21. A newphew of mine is Iranian

He happened to grow up in S Georgia instead of Iran, no choice of his it just happened that way.

These days he's a redneck Southern Baptist.

If he had grown up in Iran he might be joining ISIS instead of the Southern Baptists.

We complain about Republicans falling for propaganda and voting against their best interests and then blame the victims when it comes to vulnerable children.

[geek tragedy]

23. I can assure you if he grew up in Iran he would not be joining ISIS.

It's one thing to fall for propaganda that purports to support the same general goals for everyone (freedom and prosperity) but just using different ways to achieve it.

It's quite another to say "beheading aid workers and crucifying children--where do I sign up?"

[Fumesucker]

25. How do you know that's what they are hearing?

Young people, kids, don't pay attention to the same things we do.

I was trying to make a more general point, what culture you are part of makes you vulnerable to different propaganda.

[geek tragedy]

30. I will save all of my sympathy for the young people who get murdered and tortured, or watch

their families get murdered and tortured, by ISIS rather than those who willfully sign up with ISIS.

ISIS does not appeal to people unless they have a deep personality defect and hole in their moral conscience.

[Fumesucker]

35. It'll probably happen to some of these kids too..

If these kids are much like the ones I know they scoff at what they hear on the news and think it is all a pack of self serving lies, with considerable justification in far too many cases.

Consider that these kids have been indoctrinated their entire lives to believe that what is at least from a non religious perspective religious nonsense is absolute truth that leaves them vulnerable to further nonsense presented in the same framework.

[Surya Gayatri]

43. Precisely, the MSM is just more adults trying to control

their lives--"they scoff at what they hear on the news and think it is all a pack of self serving lies"...

And yes, they often come from authoritarian, patriarchal families where critical thinking is not the order of the day.

The family, dad and my brothers, say to be a good Muslim...

OK, I'll take it to the next level...
JIHAD!!! CALIPHATE!!!

[samsingh]

83. i'm with you - i have no sympthany for people who are uprooting their lives and not

understanding who they are supporting - though i think they do.

they are hearing something appealing and isis is blatantly brutal. how could they not know about beheadings?

their trek is in support of that.

[leftynyc]

38. It's not like there hasn't

been MOUNTAINS of exposure to what isis is up to these days. Beheading Christians, burning Muslims alive and it's not like they live in some backwater place. Yes, they're young but not THAT young. I have zero sympathy and frankly, I would revoke their passports before I'd let them come back and infect others with their delusions about isis.

[Fumesucker]

41. I don't even own a TV, not everyone does, I have a radio in a drawer for emergencies

I've seen absolutely nothing about it, the only video I consume is music, movies or educational type stuff.

Yeah, I know about ISIS but mostly from reading here on DU and a few other political type sites. It's not impossible to avoid the news almost entirely, not even difficult really. I know people who deliberately never pay any attention to news, actively avoid it.

[leftynyc]

57. I'm sorry, but you'd

have to have your head in the sand to not know about isis these days. Between tv and the computer (and you've already said you get it from online sources), there is no excuse for these young women to be that ignorant. They managed to get on a flight to Turkey so it's not like they're poverty stricken.

[Yo_Mama]

89. But if that were true, you would never have run into the propaganda - which includes

the snuff flicks, the little-kids-with-heads FB postings, etc.

And a whole bunch of religious stuff. Once you are past the age of 14 you should have something of an independent moral conscience. These kids I think do - it's just that it has different fundamental moral axioms.

[Surya Gayatri]

24. 'Blame the victims when it comes to vulnerable children', indeed!

[Bluenorthwest]

66. If he's from Iran, then he's a Shiite Baptist and most certainly would not have joined the Sunni

Baptists over at ISIS.

[Surya Gayatri]

47. The 'Whitehouse Conference to Counter Violent Extremism' was

held to confront just this problem: disaffected and alienated youth.

Contrary to what you say, they are indeed members of our societies, but are rendered vulnerable to proselytizing for a variety of reasons.

[geek tragedy]

50. people attracted to ISIS may physically be present in western societies, but never shared

its values.

Cults have always recruited from the ranks of the disaffected losers. Jim Jones, Manson, etc etc.

Having ISIS supporters removing themselves from society rather than wreaking havoc from within it is probably the least bad outcome.

[cyberswede]

31. Yikes.

I feel bad for these girls - the fate that awaits them will be awful, and then it will be too late.

[geek tragedy]

48. it sounds cold, but who would want ISIS sympathizers living in their neighborhood?

Their neighbors, indeed their entire community are safer with them over there.

ISIS's media campaign includes demonstrating all of their atrocities--they post beheading videos etc. I am very skeptical that these aspiring jihadis had no idea what ISIS did to infidels.

[samsingh]

88. i wouldn't

it's like having nazis on the street

[samsingh]

79. agreed

[Android3.14]

6. Social Darwinism in action

It is unfortunate for their families that this meme is a lethal mutation. But, given a couple of years, the persons susceptible to the phenomena will literally die out.

[B2G]

7. So here's what I don't get

So many of these young kids that are being radicalized are from upper middleclass families and seemingly from good stable homes.

Yet we're also being told that it's due to lack of opportunities, jobs, etc. that are the cause and they are disaffected by their lack of options.

I think it goes way beyond that and we'd better be looking at what the actual root cause is.

[LittleBlue]

14. If you want to know the real reason

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Muslims are religiously obligated to join the caliphate if they are physically able. These girls will be married off shortly after arriving and we'll likely never hear from them again.

[jamzrockz]

16. Also

how the heck are they able to find these websites online? I have tried looking and cant seem to find any place online where ISIS is spoken about in a positive light. I consider myself to be computer savvy, I have Muslims friends, I know a little bit of arabic (from watching too many saudi football league games) and I couldn't find these people if my life depended on it.

How the hell are they finding these people?

[Surya Gayatri]

17. They may come from well-off families, but they are

still vulnerable youth, with all of the contradictions, pressures, and let's face it, bad judgment that being 15 or 16 entails.

[greytdemocrat]

12. What boobs... n/t

[Android3.14]

27. Not cool

eom

[LeftyMom]

20. "Women" is an awfully strange word to describe minor girls. "Children" or "teen girls"? Sure.

"Women"? Hardly.

[Surya Gayatri]

29. Agree, hence the use of 'YOUNG women', because they're

really too old to be just 'girls' and I hate the term 'female'.

That may be the influence of the French language, wherein 'femelle" is exclusively used for animals.

ISIS obviously considers them to be women of marriageable age!

[dissentient]

26. I'm sorry for these girls, they are very young and at an age where this kind of propaganda

can make a big impression on them.

I don't blame these girls for this, I blame ISIS.

How sick and cowardly can they get, to recruit young girls who don't know any better.

[Fumesucker]

28. To an extent I blame the culture that leaves them vulnerable to this propaganda

If they hadn't had their heads filled with what is from my perspective religious nonsense they wouldn't be nearly as vulnerable to the propaganda.

Teach your kids nonsense is absolute truth and reap the rewards when they can't tell nonsense from actual truth.

[dissentient]

33. Ok, but religious traditions are deeply rooted in most of culture

Atheists are a tiny percentage, and most people believe in some kind of religion.

ISIS is to blame, not these girls or their religion.

[Fumesucker]

39. If many people do a stupid thing that does not mean it's not a stupid thing..

If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would it be smart for you to jump off the cliff too?

Raising your kids to believe illogical nonsense is in the end stupid and leaves them vulnerable to manipulation by others. If we all taught our children to think for themselves in every matter this world would be a better place.

[dissentient]

42. I have more respect for religious beliefs and traditions than you do

obviously.

I think you are letting ISIS off the hook by blaming religion for these girls bad decisions. Don't you give ISIS any responsibility?

[Fumesucker]

44. ISIS is doing what power mad nutjobs have always done

By any means necessary.

It doesn't mean parents have to leave their children vulnerable to insidious propaganda by teaching them some things may not be questioned.

I'm in favor of thinking for yourself in all things and that's the way I raised my kids (which leads to some lovely arguments when we disagree ).

Religion is to a big extent about the suppressing of logical questions, they are highly discouraged in many sects and kids learn fast to just shut up and mouth what they are told.

[dissentient]

46. Fair enough. I just see this differently. To me, ISIS is like a child molester in this situation

luring these girls with lies and false promises. Just like a child predator.

I would never blame a child or victim for being lured into the hands of a child molester.

I would always blame the child molester for their despicable crime, and hope they rot in jail for a long, long time.

That is just how I see it. So that is why I might be coming on strong in my posts, but I respect others can see things differently than me.

[Fumesucker]

51. You'd be surprised how often the child molester is brought into the kid's life by the parent(s).

More often than not would be my guess, that's what happened to me. I don't really blame my parents they didn't know what he was but he definitely came from their circle of acquaintances and it didn't occur to them how vigilant they needed to be.

I'm certainly not blaming the kids and by no means is all the blame on the part of the parents but I see teaching kids not to question some things as a form of poor parenting that can lead to disaster.

[dissentient]

54. Well, my sympathies. I certainly didn't know I would be bringing up bad memories

from your past with my analogy. Thanks for the conversation and debate.

[Fumesucker]

55. We're good...

[Surya Gayatri]

64. And the potential recruits are 'groomed' by ISIS'

propaganda wing just like pedophile victims.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026253051#post49

ISIS has a whole ministry of propaganda worthy of Goebbels, where they tag-team potential recruits with e-mails, tweets, facebook postings, texting, etc. etc. They've got some pretty sophisticated personnel.

[Maedhros]

56. I also blame Western culture for demonizing Islam.

As a young person, living in the West, watching the media tell you day in and day out that you are less than human because you are Muslim, ISIS' radical ideology might must take root with you.

[Fumesucker]

59. Yeah, I don't disagree with that either

Lots of blame to go around on this topic.

[Rhinodawg]

61. I agree.

those evil westerners and their horrible culture.

[Jackpine Radical]

36. As the Jesuits say (in a firghteningly similar context),

"Give me the child until hie is seven and I will give you the man."

Probably most religious belief depends on early indoctrination, and teenagers are in a stage that seems particularly vulnerable to indoctrination--I suspect because their brains have matured to the point that they are beginning to handle abstract concepts and principles, and are yet in a stage where they haven't learned to test those principles against reality. I think the same thing happens with some adolescents when they first read Ayn Rand and get themselves exposed to that economic rugged-individual libertarian nonsense.

[cwydro]

32. Where on the web do they recruit them?

I really would be interested to see how these creeps operate.

[Surya Gayatri]

67. Don't know, but French President Hollande wants

to get GOOGLE, Yahoo and other search engines to ban them.

But, then the intelligence services say that would just drive them further underground and make tracking them much more difficult.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026253051#post62

I think this is how they operate--they troll the social media networks for potential recruits and never let go.

ISIS has a whole ministry of propaganda worthy of Goebbels, where they tag-team potential recuits with e-mails, tweets, facebook postings, texting, etc. etc. They've got some pretty sophisticated personnel.

[cwydro]

85. Scary. Nt

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

52. What's happening to them once they get there?

What are they expected to do? Do they have a machine gun shoved into their hands? Are they expected to do nursing or food preparation? Or considering the barbaric attitudes of the Islamic fundamentalists are these young women relegated to tasks as "comfort women" considering their youth and sex appeal?

[Surya Gayatri]

69. ISIS is especially good at organizing their new recruits--

they are usually met at a Turkish crossing point and taken to some sort of 'orientation' center, where they are further indoctrinated and probably married off to a deserving male 'jihadi'.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

75. "married off to a deserving male 'jihadi'"

Part of a deserving Jihadi's harem? I imagine these dark ages fundamentalists believe in multiple wives, as many as they can collect.

[Surya Gayatri]

78. Well, the Prophet did allow up to four--although I suspect that

there may not be enough to go around for everybody to have their pick of four.

This article is a long read, but gives a very interesting overview of ISIS' medieval mindset.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

All Muslims acknowledge that Muhammad’s earliest conquests were not tidy affairs, and that the laws of war passed down in the Koran and in the narrations of the Prophet’s rule were calibrated to fit a turbulent and violent time. In Haykel’s estimation, the fighters of the Islamic State are authentic throwbacks to early Islam and are faithfully reproducing its norms of war. This behavior includes a number of practices that modern Muslims tend to prefer not to acknowledge as integral to their sacred texts. “Slavery, crucifixion, and beheadings are not something that freakish [jihadists] are cherry-picking from the medieval tradition,” Haykel said. Islamic State fighters “are smack in the middle of the medieval tradition and are bringing it wholesale into the present day.”

[Yo_Mama]

90. They're married off.

They have to have mahram (male guardian), which in this case will be their husband. After that, they obey their husbands.

[Orsino]

53. "More and more"?

If the story is claiming a trend, It's going to need numbers.

I guess "more and more" sells more papers than "some."

[Surya Gayatri]

63. Well, if you prefer, 'increasing numbers' of young women, just as they are

managing to recruit increasing numbers of young men.

The trend is definitely upward, especially since the "Caliphate" was officially declared last July.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

"After Baghdadi’s July sermon, a stream of jihadists began flowing daily into Syria with renewed motivation. Jürgen Todenhöfer, a German author and former politician who visited the Islamic State in December, reported the arrival of 100 fighters at one Turkish-border recruitment station in just two days. His report, among others, suggests a still-steady inflow of foreigners, ready to give up everything at home for a shot at paradise in the worst place on Earth."

[Orsino]

65. Interesting article so far, but doesn't seem to make a case for growing recruitment...

...of young, Western Mulsim women.

[Rhinodawg]

58. Yep....I like it.

its good they have given themselves to the caliphate.

They will aid and give "comfort" to those strong brave and handsome ISIS fighters.

No more having to worry about "western dating".

and no more of that anti-islam 'western education'.

and the beautiful wardrobe.

?w=720&h=480&crop=1

Yes, they have a great life ahead.








/sarcasm

[Surya Gayatri]

70. Well, if you're just too stressed out by the plethora of choices

facing you in western culture (education, career, marriage, etc.) this is just the ticket. Let the State decide, the Islamic State that is.

[DonCoquixote]

60. Dulce et Decorum Est

"If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori."

Wilfred Owen wrote this about his fellow soliders in the War that took his life, WWone, that war to end all wars. Sadly, there are always people ready to sell glory to the young, many of whom had nothing to look forward to in their lives thanks to the old men (and occasional old woman) in charge. The IS Imams and Western War-mongers can wrap this in a silk sheet, but the truth is, we live in a world that does not value the young, that seems them as exploitable fodder and pawns, and rewgardless of whatever idelogy is used, the end result is the same, the young kill, the young die, and the old men (and occaional old woman) profit. The onyl diofference is, now they can outwardly recruit young women to throw into the furnace, be they twits like Lyddie England, or these fools in the Burqas.

Dulce et Decorum est Pro Patria Mori "It is sweet and fitting to die for the fatherland." An old deadly lie sold to the youth, by old men (and the occasional old woman) who want to be relieved of the responsibility to give these children a life worth living.

[Dawson Leery]

68. Foolish.

Once they leave here, they must never be allowed back in.

[Surya Gayatri]

74. Well, I'd say make them undergo some sort of

rehabilitation or deprogramming process before ever allowing them to reenter British society.

[riderinthestorm]

71. Awful. Shrouded, disappeared, enslaved and most likely pregnant at 15-16 yrs old

When my 15-16 yr old youngest daughter rebelled, her worst consequence for poor impulse control and bad judgement was a ride in a police car.

These girls lives are pretty well ruined by this one terrible decision.

By voluntarily associating themselves with these despicable murderers, they've doomed any chance of redemption.

Horrific.

[Surya Gayatri]

73. They are cutting themselves off from their families and the only

home they know--the UK.

Really, really bad judgment due to on-line grooming by the ISIS propaganda branch.

Can you imagine the anguish of the parents?

[riderinthestorm]

76. The family's pain must be terrible. Just terrible.

Of course they won't see their daughters ever again.

Plus they have to live with the knowledge their girls are assisting a monstrous agency committing the worst sort of crimes in the name of Islam, even as they also know their daughters' lives are essentially over.

[Surya Gayatri]

77. There was recently a documentary here on French TV

about a similar situation in Tunisia where ISIS is recruiting very successfully.

The pain and suffering of the mothers was almost too much to watch. Many of them have even been all the way over to the Turkish/Syrian border to try and contact their children, but they've come back disappointed.

[samsingh]

87. apparently the mother and sister of the boston bombers were on their side in perpretating the

killing of innocent people.

i didn't see much grief in those interviews

[samsingh]

84. assuming the family is not into the propaganda themselves.

[Rhinodawg]

86. I wondered about them too.

"Oh sure, you want your passport...here it is."

[Quantess]

91. Dumbasses!

They will become sex slaves. Fucking nitwits.

[Surya Gayatri]

92. Yes, I fear they'll live to regret their bad judgment...

On the other hand, they may be indoctrinated to go on a suicide bombing mission.

Whatever their ultimate fate, it will be a waste of young lives.