Funny how Hillary's biggest critics and opponents will likely be ALLEGED Dems or Libs

[randys1]

The right doesnt have to attack Hillary for their benefit, nobody on their side is even remotely thinking of voting for her, they are too stupid for that.


So that leaves so-called libertarians and Democrats/Liberals/Progressives, right?


So we have concluded that a Republican President would indeed nominate a SC justice who would overturn Roe, that if they controlled the Senate or had enough blue dogs along with Republicans, they could get their way, etc. Surely after everything we have seen nobody doubts they would do this? (It is my contention that if you doubt this, you are either not paying attention or are not who you say you are; but that is just me)


But I digress, so who will criticize Hillary the most often and loudest, other than people like me who dont particularly like her because she is not far left enough, but who will break land speed records getting to the polls to vote for her and AGAINST terrorist rightwingers?

Who are they? Where can they do the most damage to her candidacy?

Right here on DU and in the population, with comments like this:

"I am more concerned with war in the ME than I am abortion and we know Hillary wants war in the ME"

"Both parties are the same in too many ways, so if my choice is Hillary or nobody, it will be nobody"


You know the drill.


So, in conclusion, I question who you really are or what you really want when you say that IF

IF IF IF IF IF

Hillary is the candidate, you will not vote for her.

Sure, I will work day and night for Bernie, right up to the point when Bernie loses, if he does.

So if you are someone who will HATE to vote for Hillary no matter what, but will, if necessary, then I am not talking to you.

I am torn between calling these people white, upper middle class libertarians who dont much care about civil rights, cuz they got all they need, or Women's rights, because they aint one, or teapartiers.

[Scuba]

1. I miss the unrec button.

[randys1]

2. Really? You think Russ Feingold would sit out the election because Hillary isnt liberal enough?

You think he wouldn't vote at all or would vote for a 3rd party ?

What about Bernie Sanders?


Are you a Liz fan?

Who do you think SHE votes for if Hillary is the candidate?

I would appreciate an answer on all 3 of these questions from all of you anti Hillary folks...


Anybody notice how QUICKLY the anti Hillary folks are to pounce on one of these type of threads?

Amazingly quick.

[Scuba]

5. Who said anything about sitting out? Only you, that's who.

[H2O Man]

23. ADMIT IT!!!!!!

BE A FUCKING ADULT !!!!!!! ADMIT THAT I"M RIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Romeo.lima333]

27. there are several on du that have said they will not vote for her

[randys1]

53. Exactly, I am the one who said "sitting out" which is why I directed my comments ONLY

at those here at DU who have said things either directly or indirectly meaning that under NO circumstances will they vote for her.

Now if by not sitting out you mean you could vote for a 3rd party candidate, then assuming you are in a state where it is close, voting for a 3rd party candidate NO MATTER WHO THE DEM IS is voting for the republican.

[TheKentuckian]

51. Russ, Elizabeth, and Bernie will follow their own conscience I neither know nor care

what their person in the mirror decides nor do I depend on such folks to decide what I think and how I will act upon it.

Hell, no one knows what anyone does in the privacy of the voting booth one can say one thing for public consumption and go the other way at the polls and no one could ever be the wiser. You don't know how these pols vote, sometimes they will refuse to endorse our candidates or even support Republicans publicly, you bet your ass some of them vote the other way sometimes.

If the energy that was exhausted on trying to guilt me out of my vote as earning it we'd skip these goofy conversations and be heading toward a nominee we are all happy to go to the mat for if certain quarters are to be taken at their word about our common beliefs and goals otherwise we all lose and I suspect I'm at far greater risk of taking the brunt of the hit than you are because your assumptions are far less than accurate. I do not take policy or strategy positions based on if my ass is in the line of fire or not.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

59. 1 things fo sho, no way in hell Bernie wud vote 4 Hillary in the primary, even if he doesnt run. I don't think his principles wud allow it. JMHO.

[Aerows]

109. There's so damn many of us

it's kind of hard for one of us not to post.

[Rex]

4. Nah this is great theater, let them pretend.

The Masters of Hate are the only experts on if someone disagrees or if someone hates. Let them play dress up, it is funny to watch.

[randys1]

6. So you wont answer how Liz, Bernie and Russ are likely to vote?

If you ADMIT they will all vote for her, what do THEY know that YOU dont?

[Autumn]

69. If Liz, Bernie and Russ allow me to vote for them I will be happy to ADMIT to you how they vote

or to be more precise who I will ADMIT to whom I chose to vote for in their stead. But that could be illegal.

[H2O Man]

15. ADMIT IT!!!!!!!! RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!!!!

[Rex]

22. OKAY FINE I ADMIT IT! DAMMIT! I CONFESS, I CONFESS!

I USED THE LAMP IN THE LIVING ROOM TO KILL COLONEL MUSTERED!

Go ahead...say it, 'book him Dano'.

[H2O Man]

25. Book him, Dano ....

RIGHT FUCKING NOW !!!!!! HE ADMITTED IT !!!!!!! DIDN"T YOU HEAR HIM ADMIT THAT I'M RIGHT ????????????????

[Rex]

33. Just this one time!

And if you tell anyone, I will deny it and say HRC's team of crack hackers hacked my PC and typed it. And if you bring up THIS post, I will say HRC's team of crack hackers hacked my PC and typed it.

NOTHING can be wrong on the Internet, they have people manning the stations 24/7 to prevent mistakes.

Say 'crack hackers hacked' ten times fast!

[QC]

39. And you would have gotten away with it, too,

if not for those meddling kids!

[Rex]

47. I can't get over how brave they are!

I mean, who is not scared of 'ghost diver' and 'voodoo man'? Scary shit right? Look away if you feel faint.

[Autumn]

29. Are you after Manny's job? Cause I think you might could do it.

[H2O Man]

31. But Manny will never

ADMIT IT !!!!!! RIGHT FUCKING NOW !!!!!!!

[Autumn]

95. We can persuade him.

[LittleBlue]

10. Same

These witch hunt threads are dumb

[randys1]

20. Witch hunt? DU is full of anti Hillary threads and posts, 3rd way talk all the time.

And I am the hunter?

[LittleBlue]

46. And what's wrong with that?

We haven't even started the first primary yet. It's considered acceptable in politics to criticize contenders for the nomination, even for partisans.

There is nothing wrong with this. This debate is characteristic of a democracy.

"Shut up, stop criticizing the inevitable nominee" is an anti-democratic concept.

[randys1]

50. You didnt read the OP then, I specifically said I was ONLY referring to the people who say

and there are lots of them here, they will not vote for Hillary, at all, period.

Like I have said so many times now I am getting a nose bleed, I am FAR LEFT and I will vote for her, if she is the candidate, etc.

There are folks here who wont, no matter what, and I wanna know what they are doing here?

[LittleBlue]

55. I'm one of those

What am I doing here? Hoping that we come to our senses and nominate someone else.

[randys1]

56. Wait, you are someone that will NOT vote for her if she is the candidate of the Dem party?

[LittleBlue]

61. I'll do you one better

And I've said this before on DU. In the scenario that Hillary or any other corporate Republican lite gets our nomination, I'm switching affiliation to independent. My vote will go to whichever third party is closest to my values in any given election. That means adios to DU.

So while Hillary is selling what's left of this country to Wall Street, you get your silver lining. However, I think it's still possible to beat her in the primary, so I'll participate in my state primary and hope for the best.

[randys1]

65. NO, I dont get one, I am a white male, I already have rights to my body and my civil rights

But Women will get a silver lining in they wont be dying in back alleys, minorities will have more rights, Gays will have more rights, etc

Sure, Wall street will be as healthy as ever, but you cant have everything.
'
But you go off and be smug, pretend that you are above it all when you help a Woman hating, Gay hating piece of shit get in the WH, if that is what you do.

[LittleBlue]

76. What does any of that matter if we're all serfs?

You are trading the future of our people for our own immediate interests.

If this system persists, we all know where it goes. The merging of big business and government enabled by two parties. Without major change, my grandchildren, in the unfortunate circumstance where they are part of the 99%, will be part of a serf class. And because money is political power in this country, they will be helpless.

Wealth is flowing to the top at a rate not seen for centuries. This system is doomed, and so is this country unless we get major changes. I don't want to be part of a generation in the history books where my descendants look at us and ask "why did they sit by and do nothing?"

[randys1]

80. Are you a Woman or minority?

[LittleBlue]

82. No

My wife qualifies as both, though.

[randys1]

83. I thought so.

You should ask why so few minorities and Women are thinking like you do

[LittleBlue]

85. Cheap shot identity politics

Ad hominmen attacks. Yada yada. Fall back to it when you've run out of ideas. You always do that. It's your MO.

[randys1]

87. NONSENSE, someone here said that the "both parties are the same" posters all have

in common they are white men...most of them anyway

and as a white man I know we need civil rights and so on less than anybody cuz we got ours

Upper middle class white men is exactly why you have the LUXURY to take the position you do

[LittleBlue]

89. If merely electing anyone with a D to the WH helps minorities so much

how did this happen?

Wealth gap widens: Whites' net worth is 20 times that of blacks

All racial groups lost ground in the recession, but blacks and Hispanics lost a bigger share of their net worth, a new study finds. As a result, the wealth gap is at its widest in at least 25 years.
By Patrick Wall, Contributor JULY 26, 2011

Ann Hermes / The Christian Science MonitorView Caption

NEW YORK — The wealth gap between whites on one hand and blacks and Hispanics on the other stretched during the Great Recession to its widest level in a quarter-century, according to a new analysis of Census data. All racial groups saw their net worth shrink during the downturn, but that of whites shriveled much less, with the result that their median net worth is now about 20 times that of blacks and 18 times that of Hispanics.

The recession, which included a collapse in home values and high unemployment, took the greatest toll on minority wealth. From 2005 to 2009, median wealth fell by 66 percent among Hispanic households and 53 percent among blacks, compared with 16 percent among whites. The losses left Hispanic and black wealth at their lowest levels in at least 25 years.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0726/Wealth-gap-widens-Whites-net-worth-is-20-times-that-of-blacks

How did poverty reach the highest level since the 60s?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/22/us-poverty-level-1960s_n_1692744.html

How did wealth inequality become the highest since 1928?
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/12/05/u-s-income-inequality-on-rise-for-decades-is-now-highest-since-1928/

This was happening under both Democratic and Republican administrations.



It isn't just about supporting the nominee no matter what. The nominee has to be the right person, with the right values and character. Otherwise the consequences are disastrous. Even if we win, we lose. What kind of fucked up system is that?

[randys1]

91. MERELY , who said we ONLY need to elect a Democrat to the WH, if that was true the blue dogs

wouldnt have been able to stop Obama on so many of his positive agenda items.


Give up, you cant win this debate

You have said, on the record, you will act in such a way that helps rightwing, Woman hating, minority hating, civil rights hating republican assholes get elected if YOUR candidate isnt the nominee

I am on the record saying I will do everything in my power to prevent said terrorists from taking power

I win

[DisgustipatedinCA]

158. You ADMITTED it! ADMITTED!

Sorry, just having fun with the all-caps ADMITTED IT meme.

[sendero]

114. I've said it repeatedly..

... and I mean it. If the choice is between a rattlesnake and a copperhead, I'm not going to bother.

Because it really does not matter.

[VanillaRhapsody]

30. Really? They are?

funny you don't seem to have a problem when SO CALLED "Democrats" complain about the female who IS the Democratic FRONTRUNNER who can BEAT ALL Republicans is criticized on a Democratic (read promotes Democrats) forum.....there are your so called "Witch Hunters"....

ME...I am a Democrat through and through. I vote for WHOMEVER WE decide is OUR candidate...regardless what the Jackalopes think!

[City Lights]

90. Me too. nt

[bigwillq]

143. I miss it too.

I loved that feature.

[H2O Man]

3. Oh deer!

[zappaman]

12. You rang?

[olddots]

7. well I still have an ignore button

[still_one]

8. If enough folks thought like that then LBJ would have lost, and we wouldn't have Medicare or

the Civil Rights Act

Sorry they don't appreciate that the SC is more than just abortion, it is civil rights, citizens United, gay rights, equal pay for equal work, healthcare, and a million other issues

I love single issue people, screw the other issues that will affect millions if a Democrat doesn't become president in 2016

Odds are Ruth bader Ginsberg will step down under the next president. That is all it takes. Oh, by the way, Bill Clinton appointed her. How can that be?

[randys1]

11. You lost me, I dont understand what you are saying, I by NO means am discounting the other

issues, I am pointing out that on abortion, and I will add on ALL the issues you mention, Hillary will appoint a more liberal SC justice than any con...

I was supporting Hillary, in a backhanded way, I dont see how that doesnt come across

[still_one]

60. LBJ escalated the Viet Nam war big time. Not good. However, his Great Society programs did a lot

To help a lot of people

It is an awful dichotomy

[randys1]

9. BTW, here is the GROWN UP liberal way to deal with a situation you are not happy with

If you are an actual liberal, or in my case a Democratic Socialist who is registered and votes as a Democrat, you acknowledge that Hillary is FAR from the person or ideology you want to see in the WH while (here comes the ADULT part) ACKNOWLEDGING that the alternative is so bad, so destructive, so ugly, that there is only ONE responsible action to take...

[still_one]

14. Unfortunately I suspect they view them as no difference. Fortunately most Democrats do see the

Difference

[randys1]

16. Oh good, you did see the point I was making, BTW I thank you for pointing out

the other issues

I agree, but I figure the one that SHOULD get the attention of anyone who CLAIMS to be a liberal, it would be Women's rights.

[arcane1]

18. Thank you for defining the only way to be a "good liberal" but there is another action:

Find a better candidate than Hillary Clinton.

I must be super-extra grown up to come up with that!

[randys1]

26. I was waiting for that response, you did NOT let me down.

Go ahead and explain the failure in my logic, where I state

a. Hillary is not liberal enough for me

b. I want Bernie to be President, or Liz

c. I will do everything in my power to get the most liberal person into the WH

d. Failing all that, I will RECOGNIZE the VAST difference between Hillary and the right and do the right thing



Please explain where I failed in logic.

And it isnt enough to say Hillary isnt different, you have to show me why she will appoint a SC justice who will overturn Roe or per the other poster here NOT support

civil rights
equal pay
Gay rights
healthcare for all

[arcane1]

54. The flaw in your logic is that we have no candidates, including Hillary.

[randys1]

57. That has nothing to do with what I am taling about, and each time you argue with me I

clarify my position...I will do it again


IF IF IF IF IF

for whatever reason

the candidate is Hillary (again, I will work overtime for Bernie)

do you vote for her in the actual presidential election, not the primary?

[LittleBlue]

35. Hypothetical scenario

The Republican candidate is someone like Ron Paul, a libertarian who is a borderline anarchist.

If Democrats nominated someone politically identical to Ronald Reagan, we should support him merely because he's to the left of Ron Paul?

Under your hyper partisan ideology, the country could theoretically be moved rightward forever because no one in either party would rebel against the shift. Right-wingers will vote for their candidate merely because they remain to the right of ours, and vice versa.

What you advocate is a doomed farce of a political system. Without pressure from the left, there is no resistance to continue moving the political spectrum to the right. Part of ensuring our political health is the threat of rebellion, desertion and ultimately the threat of a successful third party. Your beliefs would create an ossified right-wing duopoly.

[frylock]

107. lather, rinse, repeat

[tracks29]

13. This doesn't help

This is the kind of stuff that motivates me to get off my ass and help Bernie or find some alternative to Hillary.

[randys1]

17. Good, you can join me, I have done everything I can to volunteer for Bernie's campaign

but since he hasnt announced yet there is no official work to do.

I support him every chance I get.

[AtomicKitten]

19. giddyup

[H2O Man]

21. Greatest answer ever!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

71. LMFAO! (Thanks, I needed that.)

[VanillaRhapsody]

24. Just like I KEEP saying...THEY are NOT Democrats

they are Dino's...Left leaning Libertarian's disguised as Democrats!

[randys1]

28. And each time I do a thread like this, you have to remind me, because I am NEVER going

to stop exposing them just like the scream in the Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

In other words, those of us who do NOT want terrorists to take over everything, i.e. teaparty, have to openly expose them here and everywhere as often as possible.





I guess I get confused about the rules here, I am a registered Democrat.

I am far more liberal than most, it appears, but these people seem to have zero alignment with the party, why are they here?

And again, I am ONLY speaking of the ones who will not vote for her, no matter what.

[VanillaRhapsody]

32. I will....I keep exposing them too...I WILL continue to expose them for what they truly are...

turncoats!

[randys1]

34. Are all of them turncoats, or are some of them just teaparty types who like to play here?

I dont allege any of them are, but the point of my post is most of the damage that will be done to Hillary, if she is the nominee, will be done by these people.

For the reasons I explained earlier

[VanillaRhapsody]

37. I do believe some of them are Teaparty....but not all

some are just perpetual malcontents.....(or rather nincompoops). There are those that would just rather complain because NOTHING is good enough for them!

[Andy823]

84. I couldn't agree more.

Last edited Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:27 PM - Edit history (1)

The funny things is most of them are the same group that trashes president Obama day after day, saying he has accomplished "NOTHING", ONLY helps the corporations, will cut medicare and SS, etc. Even if Warren ran, and won, I am willing to bet they would be trashing her before the end of the first year! They stalk the boards looking for someone who is "against" them and then they alert on them trying to get the banned from the boards. Whatever the hell they are they are not what the claim to be, democrats, liberals or progressives.

Some of them are just obvious as hell yet their little gang is large enough to rec their threads up and keep the trash they spew on the greatest threads list.

[VanillaRhapsody]

93. Yep....you got it...

they obviously play Second Life....they would be the Griefers! They think we don't see through their games!

[randys1]

119. ...

Yes, there is a group of them who are here to silence liberal voices.

For a while I was confused, I thought they were like me, i.e. radically liberal, someone who could argue all day long with someone about why Hillary aint all that, but that isnt what they are, at all.

[Andy823]

155. I agree

People can, and they should, speak up about how they feel about candidates that will run in the primary, and yes even though some here want to deny there "will" be a primary it will happen. What is wrong is the constant post after post BASHING the president, Clinton and the party. We can all agree to disagree, but some of the post I read on a daily basis go way to far with the attacks, and BS.

Now I have no intention of voting for Hillary in the primary, heck I don't even know who will be running, but I do know that whoever wins the primary will get my vote against "ANY" republican that the right will pick. There is way to much to lose by letting a republican win the WH, Supreme court nominees, health care repeal, more wars, low wages, women's rights, etc. I may not like it if Clinton wins, but a sure as hell won't throw my vote away by not voting for her.

[zappaman]

40. This place is infested with libertarians who like hanging out here

since it's a way cooler site than anything the Republicans or Libertarians have...

[randys1]

42. I was going to start a thread about my CPA who is convinced that in

Australia when you turn 45 you stop receiving any medical treatment for anything because their universal healthcare runs too thin.

[TheKentuckian]

88. I'm just as registered as you are. I work elections. I vote every election

I donate.

I am a Democrat and all of your belly aching won't alter that an iota. It won't move me down a single line when the calls for volunteers come. It won't stop one donation request. It won't stop me from being from being by the stage election night.

You want unconditional love and support then call your parents or your child, the expectation for it for a political party is crazy to me. At a certain point unacceptable is unacceptable, there maybe there are distinctions but you're still at unacceptable and worse actively seeking to be less acceptable all the motherfucking time under the cover of the shadow of the other creeping monstrosity.

Sorry about your campaign for purity but it doesn't work like that anymore than it does for ideology. You seem to be looking for a system where registration automatically places a person's vote or something.

[VanillaRhapsody]

100. I don't care WHO you are registered as...

If you are an undependable "Democrat" then you are officially and literally "Independent" by definition!

[DisgustipatedinCA]

159. I think you need to brush up on the adverb form of the adjective 'official' nt.

[VanillaRhapsody]

166. I think you need to brush up on the definition of the word independent...

Bernie Sanders is an Independent that WILL vote for the winner of the Primary...even if it is HRC! Making him a better Democrat than someone who won't...no matter WHAT they registered as!

If you are supportive of Bernie Sanders....why does the moniker "Independent" bother you so much? If it bothers YOU this much....perhaps you need to rethink whom you are supporting.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

168. The words independent? All 4? In De Pen Dent? Help me out here. nt

[TheKentuckian]

163. Your definition is toothless and meaningless vapor that exists only between your ears

I don't consider Turd Way circle d's Democrats either but it does not matter if I hold my breath till I turn blue and protest them like it is the 60's they will still be Democrats no matter how possessed by the ghost of Reagan they are.

I'll have to suck it same as you.

[VanillaRhapsody]

167. Says the Left Leaning Independent!

who cannot produce a viable candidate that polls in double digits against ANY Republican contender.

I don't have to suck anything...I AM a Democrat and I vote for the winner of the Primary...no matter who wins it.

[TDale313]

62. I think this kind of attack and assumption is counterproductive.

Not the best way to convince people. Just sayin'.

[VanillaRhapsody]

66. You would.....but WE are DEMOCRATS!

this site is to ELECT MORE Democrats....

If ONE has a substantial lead on the pack AND polls way ahead of the ENTIRE Opposition field....Then THAT is who "Democrats" should.....that is if they truly ARE one....and THAT is the point.

[TDale313]

75. I am a Democrat. I have always voted for the Democratic Nominee

And will continue to do so. But I reserve the right to fight for who I think the best Democratic Nominee will be until the primaries are decided. THAT is what I feel good Democrats should do.

[VanillaRhapsody]

78. Just voting for them....doesn't make you one...YOU have to support THE Party!

we are a UNION! If you don't support the decision that your fellow Democrats make...then you are an Independent that happens to have voted Democrat. BIG difference!

[TDale313]

86. Whatever.

I know who I am and what I believe and who I support. I am a Democrat, and proud to be. And you don't get to define that for me our others. Done here, cause frankly your "with us or against us" attitude when no one has even announced disturbs me more than I can express.

[VanillaRhapsody]

98. Not "whatever"

it just IS....

Independent means....UNDEPENDABLE!!!

If you won't vote for whomever the Democrats choose in their Primary Election....you are ipso facto "undependable"....and therefore INDEPENDENT!

[randys1]

36. I see none of you clever folks are able to answer this

So you wont answer how Liz, Bernie and Russ are likely to vote?

If you ADMIT they will all vote for her, what do THEY know that YOU dont?

Or tell me they wont vote for her if she is the nominee, come on, one of you must have the nerve to say that?

[VanillaRhapsody]

38. they can't answer that question....

It would expose their utter hypocrisy!

I ask them the same question..."do you think E.W. and B.S. will endorse her if she wins the Primary?....)

[randys1]

41. And since none will, I think I am done with them...I am FAR too busy working to protect voting

rights and Gay rights and Women's rights to deal with these malcontents...

Thanks for enlightening me...

[zappaman]

45. Who cares about voting rights

or gay rights or women's rights?
Hilary voted for the war!!!

[LittleBlue]

48. Uh okay, I'll answer that

I don't give a flying f*** how any of them vote. It doesn't influence my vote one iota.

Is that a good enough answer for you?

[VanillaRhapsody]

63. YOU SHOULD give a flying fuck...

you endorse one or both of them.....or do you?

This is the real point.....you are starting to out yourselves!

[LittleBlue]

64. I haven't endorsed any of them

Primary season hasn't started. It would be silly to hand out my support before they even declare or announce their platform.

[VanillaRhapsody]

67. sure you haven't.....

do you post in support of Elizabeth Warren running? Do you post on that ridiculous groups threads?

Democrats are NOT fooled by these antics...

Do you want to know what the leader of the pack stands for? I have that for ya right here...

http://ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm

[LittleBlue]

81. I hope we get lots of candidates with different ideas

Elizabeth Warren is someone I would seriously consider, but I don't know enough about her or the other potential candidates to make a decision right now.

I'm not fooled by Hillary's words. Her actions have spoken for her. Voting for the Iraq War disqualifies her from consideration. I don't think she's good enough to be president.

[VanillaRhapsody]

101. I would ONLY consider whoever wins OUR Primary...

and YOU won't say that!

Therefore...Independent. Its very very simple and elementary!

[Cali_Democrat]

43. Shit....

....almost forgot my popcorn...

[hrmjustin]

44. I don't like it when I or other Hillary voters are called third way and I don't like to question

the motives of posters in good standing as to why they dislike her.

Yes there will be an occasional troll but people in our party have honest disagreements.

That being said I hope all of us vote for our nominee and if you can't then when the primaries are over not to push for third party candidates here on DU.

[randys1]

49. You have more faith than i do, personally I see more anti Hillary threads and posts here than

positive ones.

[hrmjustin]

52. oh it does bother me but I remind myself that DU will not be the final say.

I look at it as some people getting out their anger now.

[VanillaRhapsody]

151. Thank the FSM that cooler minds than some on DU WILL prevail...

but in that case....why are we CEDING the Democratic Underground to them?

[hrmjustin]

152. I don't think we are. I think we challenge ideas here.

[VanillaRhapsody]

153. I think you just said that we are....

because Democratic Underground is NOT representative OF the Democrats in this country!

[hrmjustin]

154. Well it really depends on the day here.

Some days they get to me and I just give up, but other days I put up a fight.

[Dragonfli]

165. Justin, you are a sane person and a good Democrat

I actually read your posts and upon occasion change my mind because of them (but not always I am afraid)

Can you explain to me why I was just told that I am not allowed in the party unless I support Hillary Clinton? Is this really how the party feels IYO?

I have to tell you, it sounds like some in your group would prefer a much smaller tent as I have been a Democrat for 40 years and used to be welcome, if anything, Vanilla has done nothing but harden my position against Clinton whereas until her attacks I was very seriously considering voting for her as a lesser of two evils that would at least protect social issues even while favoring Friedmanesque economic policies that would force me and others in my class even further into poverty.

I don't expect you to speak for another poster, but for the sake of not hardening even more people against Hillary as a candidate, perhaps an intervention is in order.

[VanillaRhapsody]

171. Unlike some around here....

who won't vote for the Primary winner if it is Hillary Clinton but DO support an Independent....ironic isn't it? I have more respect for Bernie Sanders...

[hrmjustin]

172. You are allowed in the party.

I don't know what you were told and I have no desire to go into other posters minds here but you are certainly welcome in the party. We will have a vigorous primary and debate issues and it shoukd be great. And in the end we will have a nominee and she or he will be stronger for it.

I have no doubt you are a Democrat and you don't need to convince me of that. Don't let moments like this get you down and if you don't get along with a poster just don't engage.

[VanillaRhapsody]

68. but that is the point hrm....many of them outright say they won't

that they support B.S. or Elizabeth Warren....YET both of THEM WILL endorse HRC if she wins the Primary!

they are hypocrites!

[hrmjustin]

74. Well i like to see the better side of people.

I think some of them just need to get used to the idea of her becoming the nominee.

[VanillaRhapsody]

79. if they don't....then they are not or never were.....Democrats.

its just that simple...

[TheKentuckian]

96. How can one person be a hypocrite based on the actions of another person?

Why do you think that favor or support for a politician is the same as making them your deity or something?

It is like you are trying to ramp up the "what would your dear departed mother think if she saw you now" tact but it is really goofy because I have no connection to even attempt to play into a guilt trip nor are they set upon some high priest or priestess pedestal nor are they lords we have sworn fealty to.

What do you think the relationship is between politician and constituent is? This does give a little insight into your point of view though.

[VanillaRhapsody]

97. Because.....if they won't support the candidate that the DEMOCRATIC PARTY...(that being US)

elect in OUR Primary......then they are not Democrats.....this is politics. If they support a candidate...who WILL endorse the winner of the Primary (which means that person wants people who support them TO support that other candidate)...yet THEY cannot do the very thing that the candidate they DO support suggests they do..then they are hypocrites not Democrats! Its really very simple

[TheKentuckian]

138. Not following someone's "suggestion" does not make them a hypocrite either.

[cpwm17]

58. It's not funny how those who oppose politicians that enthusiastically support mass-murder

Last edited Wed Feb 18, 2015, 08:59 PM - Edit history (1)

can be insulted by some on a liberal site: because only white, upper middle class libertarians oppose mass-murder against brown people on the other side of the world. Western, imperial racism runs deep in the US.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

70. Who am I? I'm a Democratic Socialist.

And one who has been unemployed for about 5 years now. And I vote for candidates I fell address the most important and far reaching issues affecting the country as a whole. At this point in time, that's the crushing of the middle class and the impoverished so as to maintain the status quo of money being funnelled upwards to the plutocrats. You want to help women? Get more money in their pockets. You want to help people of colour, or gays? Get more money in their pockets. It's always the marginalized who get crushed first when the 1%ers screw up the economy. And politicians listen only to people with money. So if you want politicians to help women, gays, blacks... then get them the money to start buying political attention.

[VanillaRhapsody]

102. NO you might be a Socialist Independent like Bernie Sanders

but if you are not pledging to vote for whomever wins the Primary...you are no longer a Democrat.

Undependable = Independent by definition!

[Dragonfli]

110. I find you very confusing, once when I said I don't like Hillary's republican policies

and would be unlikely to vote for such a Republican just because they register as a Democrat, you told me she is a Democrat because she is registered as one..

I still think that when someone proposes or supports republican laws and policies and votes like a Republican for a Republican war, they are Republicans no matter how they register.

Now you tell me that just because people register as Democrats they are not Democrats because they won't vote for a Dino.

Well which is it? Does Hillary's registration make her a Democrat, or does her support for Republican policies and her Republican war make her an independent?

How can both of your beliefs be true when they are arguing opposite sides?

[VanillaRhapsody]

113. No you don't that is bullshit!

You know EXACTLY what I am saying.....you are just in denial. You don't want to say it....but you know its TRUE!

Bernie is an Independent...who WILL vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton when she wins the Primary. Not only will he vote for her....he will throw his support behind her (meaning he is telling HIS supporters to vote for her) when he drops out....YOU Cannot say that...therefore you are less a Democrat than HE is!

Which is why I have more respect for Bernie than I do for you and your Independent cohorts!

[Dragonfli]

141. Does One's Democratic registration count for nothing

unless it is the registration of a politician IYO?

Shouldn't we all just register as unaffiliated if our registration does not gain us entry into the party unless accompanied by an unconditional oath? Where does one that wishes to join the party take such an oath? Is there a way to verify said oath so that we know the number of real Democrats rather than the false numbers we have now?


Where did you take your blood oath and would you vote for this ticket:

if Jeb decides to change parties?

I am currently a registered Democrat, should I turn in my card since I do not support Republicans posing as Democrats?


Will you answer any of these questions that your beliefs raise?

[VanillaRhapsody]

147. Actions speak louder than words! An "alleged" Democrat who supports a Non-Democrat!

Do you have an alternative candidate that CAN beat ALL Republican Potential Candidates by better than double digits yet?

Until to you do....pppppppfffffftttttttt! Talk to the hand...

[Dragonfli]

148. So, after making absurd statements about party membership that raises many questions

You can answer none of them?

Perhaps because you realize how absurd your assumptions are after all...

[VanillaRhapsody]

150. Its not absurd at all....

will you or will you NOT vote for Hillary Clinton if she wins the Democratic Primary...prove whether you ARE a Democrat or not...then and only then would I consider your rhetoric!

OH and be aware...if you cannot answer that....you are NOT one....because any TRUE Democrat could!

[Dragonfli]

157. I will write in someone that is not attacking my class, I will refuse to vote for Republican policy.

Am I therefore kicked out of the party and disallowed the option of voting for all the Democrats down ticket?

So then, you would have a tent so small that only those that support Hillary Clinton are allowed in the party?
Since you obviously get to decide the few allowed in the party, who shall you send to take away my registration card?

[VanillaRhapsody]

169. attacking your class?

and you needed ME to clarify for it you????


If you are not a dependable Democrat now...because you cannot vote for the winner of the Primary if it is one Hillary Rodham Clinton...then you are no longer one. Its pretty simple math.. 2 + 2 = 4!

Bernie Sanders is an Independent that WILL Vote for the winner of the Democratic Primary election....even if that winner is HRC...

Therefore Bernie Sanders the Independent is a much more "Dependable" Democrat than you are....and he is not even registered AS ONE!

[Dragonfli]

175. Hilary Clinton supports supply side economics and neoliberal trade policy, this is no secret nor is

she ashamed of it, she is good on social issues, but supply side and neolib trade has been harming my class since her husband began supporting them from the left.

It has reduced me and my blue collar peers from holding our own, barely, after the Reagan attacks against us, to living in poverty with very few options to work our way out of it. Comfortable people can afford to vote for policies that worsen our fate because unlike us, they (and I assume you) are well, comfortable.

My own destruction may well be inevitable due to the power wielded by supply siders that are harming us, but I damn well don't have to vote to assist them in my destruction. No matter what you may think my party registration compels me against my will to do, now kindly piss of and make your own decisions without attempting TO FORCE mine.

[VanillaRhapsody]

176. No secret? Its utter bullshit and the facts bear it out...

Your hatred undies are showing...

http://ontheissues.org/hillary_clinton.htm



Strongly Favors topic 1:
Abortion is a woman's unrestricted right
(+5 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 2:
Legally require hiring women & minorities
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Favors topic 3:
Comfortable with same-sex marriage
(+5 points on Social scale)

No opinion on topic 4:
Keep God in the public sphere
(0 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 5:
Expand ObamaCare
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 6:
Privatize Social Security
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 7:
Vouchers for school choice
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 8:
No 'rights' to clean air and water
(+5 points on Social scale)

Opposes topic 9:
Stricter punishment reduces crime
(+2 points on Social scale)

Strongly Opposes topic 10:
Absolute right to gun ownership
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Strongly Favors topic 11:
Higher taxes on the wealthy
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Favors topic 12:
Pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens
(+2 points on Social scale)

Opposes topic 13:
Support & expand free trade
(-3 points on Economic scale)

Opposes topic 14:
Maintain US sovereignty from UN
(-3 points on Economic scale)

No opinion on topic 15:
Expand the military
(0 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 16:
More enforcement of the right to vote
(+5 points on Social scale)

Favors topic 17:
Stay out10:49 AM 11/28/2014 of Iran
(+2 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 18:
Prioritize green energy
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Opposes topic 19:
Never legalize marijuana
(+2 points on Social scale)

Strongly Favors topic 20:
Stimulus better than market-led recovery
(-5 points on Economic scale)


"attacking your class" my big ass!

[Dragonfli]

179. Those aren't facts, and that chart with it's methodology has been known to be garbage

for quite some time now.

[VanillaRhapsody]

180. Oh you need the facts that created it? GREAT!!! By the way...NOT discredited

Strongly Favors topic 1:
Abortion is a woman's unrestricted right
(+5 points on Social scale)

Lift ban on stem cell research to cure devastating diseases: Favors topic 1
Respect Roe v. Wade, but make adoptions easier too: Favors topic 1
Alternatives to pro-choice like forced pregnancy in Romania: Strongly Favors topic 1
Must safeguard constitutional rights, including choice: Favors topic 1
Remain vigilant on a woman’s right to chose: Favors topic 1
Keep abortion safe, legal and rare: Favors topic 1
Being pro-choice is not being pro-abortion: Favors topic 1
Supports parental notice & family planning: Opposes topic 1
No abortion for sex selection in China: Opposes topic 1
Voted liberal line on partial birth & harm to fetus: Favors topic 1
Endorsed Recommended by EMILY's List of pro-choice women: Favors topic 1
Rated 100% by NARAL, indicating a pro-choice voting record: Strongly Favors topic 1
Expand embryonic stem cell research: Favors topic 1
Sponsored bill providing contraceptives for low-income women: Favors topic 1
Sponsored bill for emergency contraception for rape victims: Favors topic 1
Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance: Strongly Favors topic 1
Provide emergency contraception at military facilities: Favors topic 1
Ensure access to and funding for contraception: Favors topic 1
Focus on preventing pregnancy, plus emergency contraception: Favors topic 1
NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion: Strongly Favors topic 1
NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP: Favors topic 1
NO on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life: Strongly Favors topic 1
NO on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime: Favors topic 1
YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives: Favors topic 1
NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions: Favors topic 1
YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines: Favors topic 1

Strongly Favors topic 2:
Legally require hiring women & minorities
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Some world leaders are still misogynistic: Favors topic 2
Some world leaders are still misogynistic: Favors topic 2
We’ve come a long way on race, but we have a long way to go: Strongly Favors topic 2
Apologize for slavery, but concentrate on civil rights now: Favors topic 2
Human rights are women’s rights: Neutral on topic 2
Women’s rights are human rights: Favors topic 2
OpEd: "18 million cracks" meant "lingering sexism": Strongly Favors topic 2
Equal pay is not yet equal: Strongly Favors topic 2
1988: Instituted gender diversity Report Card within ABA: Strongly Opposes topic 2
Argued with Bill Clinton about diluting affirmative action: Strongly Favors topic 2
Shift from group preferences to economic empowerment of all: Neutral on topic 2
Sponsored bill maintaining role of women in armed forces: Favors topic 2
Rated 96% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance: Strongly Favors topic 2
Recognize Juneteenth as historical end of slavery: Strongly Favors topic 2
Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment: Strongly Favors topic 2
Reinforce anti-discrimination and equal-pay requirements: Favors topic 2
Ban discriminatory compensation; allow 2 years to sue: Favors topic 2
Sponsored bill enforcing against gender pay discrimination: Strongly Favors topic 2

Strongly Favors topic 3:
Comfortable with same-sex marriage
(+5 points on Social scale)

Increase America’s commitment against Global AIDS: Favors topic 3
I re-evaluated & changed my mind on gay marriage: Favors topic 3
DOMA discrimination holds us back from a more perfect union: Strongly Favors topic 3
I support gay marriage personally and as law: Strongly Favors topic 3
Let states decide gay marriage; they’re ahead of feds: Favors topic 3
2004:defended traditional marriage; 2006:voted for same-sex: Strongly Favors topic 3
Federal Marriage Amendment would be terrible step backwards: Favors topic 3
Gays deserve domestic partnership benefits: Strongly Favors topic 3
Military service based on conduct, not sexual orientation: Favors topic 3
More funding and stricter sentencing for hate crimes: Strongly Favors topic 3
Rated 89% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance: Strongly Favors topic 3
Provide benefits to domestic partners of Federal employees: Strongly Favors topic 3
YES on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes: Strongly Favors topic 3
NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage: Strongly Favors topic 3

No opinion on topic 4:
Keep God in the public sphere
(0 points on Social scale)

Partner with faith based community in empowerment zones: Strongly Favors topic 4
Tap into churches to avoid more Louima & Diallo cases: Favors topic 4
Community involvement helps, but only in short term: Favors topic 4
Link payments to good parenting behavior: Opposes topic 4
Allow student prayer, but no religious instruction: Opposes topic 4
Character education: teach empathy & self-discipline: Favors topic 4
Change what kids see in the media: Favors topic 4
Co-sponsored bill to criminalize flag-burning: Favors topic 4
Rated 0% by the Christian Coalition: an anti-Family-Value voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 4
Rated 100% by the AU, indicating support of church-state separation: Strongly Opposes topic 4
NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration: Opposes topic 4

Strongly Favors topic 5:
Expand ObamaCare
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Outcry if AIDS were leading disease of young whites: Favors topic 5
Lower costs and improve quality and cover everybody: Strongly Favors topic 5
Supply more medical needs of families, & insure all children: Strongly Favors topic 5
Medicare should be strengthened today: Favors topic 5
Smaller steps to progress on health care: Favors topic 5
Guaranteed benefits & focus on prevention: Neutral on topic 5
2006: If I can't do universal coverage, why run?: Strongly Favors topic 5
Universal health care will not work if it is voluntary: Strongly Favors topic 5
Universal health care coverage by the end of my second term: Strongly Favors topic 5
We need a uniquely American solution to health care: Favors topic 5
Health care initiatives are her first priority in Senate: Strongly Favors topic 5
Establish "report cards" on HMO quality of care: Favors topic 5
Invest funds to alleviate the nursing shortage: Favors topic 5
Let states make bulk Rx purchases, and other innovations: Opposes topic 5
Rated 100% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record: Strongly Favors topic 5
Preserve access to Medicaid & SCHIP during economic downturn: Strongly Favors topic 5
NO on means-testing to determine Medicare Part D premium: Favors topic 5
NO on funding GOP version of Medicare prescription drug benefit: Favors topic 5
NO on $40 billion per year for limited Medicare prescription drug benefit: Opposes topic 5
YES on increasing Medicaid rebate for producing generics: Favors topic 5
YES on negotiating bulk purchases for Medicare prescription drug: Strongly Favors topic 5
YES on expanding enrollment period for Medicare Part D: Favors topic 5
NO on limiting medical liability lawsuits to $250,000: Opposes topic 5
YES on requiring negotiated Rx prices for Medicare part D: Favors topic 5
YES on overriding veto on expansion of Medicare: Favors topic 5

Strongly Opposes topic 6:
Privatize Social Security
(-5 points on Economic scale)

1997: Hillary warned against privatizing Social Security: Strongly Opposes topic 6
Soc.Sec. one of greatest inventions in American democracy: Strongly Opposes topic 6
Social Security protects families, not just retirees: Strongly Opposes topic 6
All should join the debate now to preserve future solvency: Opposes topic 6
Create Retirement Savings Accounts: Favors topic 6
Rated 100% by the ARA, indicating a pro-senior voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 6
NO on establishing reserve funds & pre-funding for Social Security: Opposes topic 6

Strongly Opposes topic 7:
Vouchers for school choice
(-5 points on Economic scale)

OpEd: Common Core recycled from Clintons in 1980s and 1990s: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Fully fund special education & 21st century classrooms: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Supports public school choice; but not private nor parochial: Opposes topic 7
Vouchers drain money from public schools: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Fight with Gore for public schools; no voucher “gimmicks”: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Charter schools provide choice within public system: Opposes topic 7
Vouchers siphon off much-needed resources: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Parents can choose, but support public schools: Opposes topic 7
Supports public school choice and charter schools: Favors topic 7
Solemn vow never to abandon our public schools: Strongly Opposes topic 7
Offer every parent Charter Schools and public school choice: Opposes topic 7
Rated 82% by the NEA, indicating pro-public education votes: Strongly Opposes topic 7
YES on funding smaller classes instead of private tutors: Opposes topic 7
YES on funding student testing instead of private tutors: Opposes topic 7
YES on $5B for grants to local educational agencies: Opposes topic 7

Strongly Opposes topic 8:
No 'rights' to clean air and water
(+5 points on Social scale)

$5B for green-collar jobs in economic stimulus package: Opposes topic 8
Voted against and consistently opposed to Yucca Mountain: Strongly Opposes topic 8
Scored 100% on Humane Society Scorecard on animal protection: Strongly Opposes topic 8
Remove PCBs from Hudson River by dredging 200 miles: Opposes topic 8
Rated 89% by the LCV, indicating pro-environment votes: Strongly Opposes topic 8
EPA must do better on mercury clean-up: Opposes topic 8
Grants for beach water pollution under Clean Water Act: Opposes topic 8
Strengthen prohibitions against animal fighting: Strongly Opposes topic 8

Opposes topic 9:
Stricter punishment reduces crime
(+2 points on Social scale)

Longtime advocate of death penalty, with restrictions: Strongly Favors topic 9
Address the unacceptable increase in incarceration: Opposes topic 9
Mandatory sentences have been too widely used: Strongly Opposes topic 9
Give kids after-school activities to prevent gangs: Opposes topic 9
Spend more time with kids to prevent violence: Opposes topic 9
Supports citizen patrols & 3-Strikes-You’re-Out: Favors topic 9
Supports “Three Strikes” and more prison: Strongly Favors topic 9
End hate crimes and other intolerance: Favors topic 9
Require DNA testing for all federal executions: Opposes topic 9
Increase funding for "COPS ON THE BEAT" program: Opposes topic 9
Reduce recidivism by giving offenders a Second Chance: Strongly Opposes topic 9
YES on reinstating $1.15 billion funding for the COPS Program: Opposes topic 9

Strongly Opposes topic 10:
Absolute right to gun ownership
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Rein in idea that anybody can have a gun anywhere, anytime: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Against illegal guns, crack down on illegal gun dealers: Opposes topic 10
Get assault weapons & guns off the street: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Background check system could prevent Virginia Tech massacre: Opposes topic 10
Congress’ failure at Littleton response inspired Senate run: Opposes topic 10
Limit access to weapons; look for early warning signs: Opposes topic 10
License and register all handgun sales: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Gun control protects our children: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Don’t water down sensible gun control legislation: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Lock up guns; store ammo separately: Strongly Opposes topic 10
Get weapons off the streets; zero tolerance for weapons: Opposes topic 10
Prevent unauthorized firearm use with "smart gun" technology: Opposes topic 10
NO on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence: Strongly Opposes topic 10
NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers: Strongly Opposes topic 10

Strongly Favors topic 11:
Higher taxes on the wealthy
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Rescind tax cuts for those making more than $250,000 a year: Strongly Favors topic 11
Pay down debt & cut taxes within balanced budget: Favors topic 11
GOP tax plan would hurt New York’s students: Favors topic 11
Rated 21% by NTU, indicating a "Big Spender" on tax votes: Strongly Favors topic 11
Rated 80% by the CTJ, indicating support of progressive taxation: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on raising the Death Tax exemption to $5M from $1M: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on allowing AMT reduction without budget offset: Favors topic 11
YES on reducing marriage penalty instead of cutting top tax rates: Favors topic 11
YES on spending $448B of tax cut on education & debt reduction: Favors topic 11
NO on $350 billion in tax breaks over 11 years: Strongly Favors topic 11
YES on extending the tax cuts on capital gains and dividends: Strongly Opposes topic 11
YES on $47B for military by repealing capital gains tax cut: Favors topic 11
YES on retaining reduced taxes on capital gains & dividends: Strongly Opposes topic 11
NO on permanently repealing the `death tax`: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on supporting permanence of estate tax cuts: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on raising estate tax exemption to $5 million: Strongly Favors topic 11
NO on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax: Strongly Favors topic 11

Favors topic 12:
Pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens
(+2 points on Social scale)

Introduce a path to earn citizenship in the first 100 days: Strongly Favors topic 12
Consider halting certain raids on illegal immigrant families: Favors topic 12
Deporting all illegal immigrants is unrealistic: Strongly Favors topic 12
Illegal immigrants with driver’s licenses puts them at risk: Opposes topic 12
Oppose granting driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants: Opposes topic 12
More border patrolling on both Mexican AND Canadian borders: Opposes topic 12
Anti-immigrant bill would have criminalized Jesus Christ: Strongly Favors topic 12
Sanctuary cities ok; local police can’t enforce immigration: Favors topic 12
Comprehensive reform to get 12 million out of shadows: Strongly Favors topic 12
Sponsored bill covering child resident aliens under Medicaid: Favors topic 12
Sponsored bill funding social services for noncitizens: Favors topic 12
Rated 8% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance: Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on continuing federal funds for declared "sanctuary cities": Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security: Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on giving Guest Workers a path to citizenship: Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on establishing a Guest Worker program: Favors topic 12
YES on building a fence along the Mexican border: Strongly Opposes topic 12
YES on eliminating the "Y" nonimmigrant guestworker program: Neutral topic 12
NO on declaring English as the official language of the US government: Strongly Favors topic 12
YES on comprehensive immigration reform: Strongly Favors topic 12

Favors topic 13:
Support & expand free trade
(+2 points on Economic scale)

Chief advocate for Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP): Strongly Favors topic 13
TPP agreement creates more growth and better growth: Favors topic 13
Smart, pro-American trade: NAFTA has hurt workers: Strongly Opposes topic 13
No fast-track authority for this president: Opposes topic 13
Defended outsourcing of US jobs to India: Favors topic 13
1980s: Loved Wal-Mart's "Buy America" program: Opposes topic 13
Globalization should not substitute for humanization: Opposes topic 13
Supports MFN for China, despite concerns over human rights: Strongly Favors topic 13
Build a rule-based global trading system: Favors topic 13
Rated 17% by CATO, indicating a pro-fair trade voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 13
YES on removing common goods from national security export rules: Favors topic 13
YES on granting normal trade relations status to Vietnam: Favors topic 13
NO on extending free trade to Andean nations: Strongly Opposes topic 13
YES on establishing free trade between US & Singapore: Favors topic 13
YES on establishing free trade between the US and Chile: Favors topic 13
NO on implementing CAFTA for Central America free-trade: Strongly Opposes topic 13
YES on free trade agreement with Oman: Strongly Favors topic 13

Opposes topic 14:
Maintain US sovereignty from UN
(-3 points on Economic scale)

US support & no-fly zone, but UN troops on ground in Darfur: Strongly Opposes topic 14
Support UN reform because US benefits: Opposes topic 14
Engage in world affairs, including human rights: Strongly Opposes topic 14
Keep Cuban embargo; pay UN bills: Opposes topic 14
2002 Iraq speech criticized both Saddam and U.N.: Opposes topic 14
2002: Attacking Iraq "not a good option" but authorized it: Favors topic 14
Urged President to veto UN condemnation of Israel: Favors topic 14
Voted against Levin Amendment: it gave UN veto over US: Favors topic 14
Dems believe in fighting terror with cooperation: Strongly Opposes topic 14
Restore habeas corpus for detainees in the War on Terror: Opposes topic 14
YES on preserving habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees: Strongly Opposes topic 14
YES on requiring CIA reports on detainees & interrogation methods: Strongly Opposes topic 14
NO on removing need for FISA warrant for wiretapping abroad: Strongly Opposes topic 14

No opinion on topic 15:
Expand the military
(0 points on Social scale)

There is no safe haven for the terrorists: Favors topic 15
Our troops are stretched; so increase size of military: Favors topic 15
Rated 100% by SANE, indicating a pro-peace voting record: Strongly Opposes topic 15
Extend reserve retirement pay parity back to 9/11: Favors topic 15
Improve mental health care benefits for returning veterans: Favors topic 15
YES on requiring on-budget funding for Iraq, not emergency funding: Opposes topic 15
YES on limiting soldiers' deployment to 12 months: Opposes topic 15

Strongly Favors topic 16:
More enforcement of the right to vote
(+5 points on Social scale)

Presidents should reveal donations to their foundations: Strongly Favors topic 16
Voter suppression revives old demons of discrimination: Favors topic 16
Stand for public financing and getting money out of politics: Strongly Favors topic 16
Move to public election financing, not banning lobbyists: Strongly Favors topic 16
Verified paper ballot for every electronic voting machines: Favors topic 16
Called for ban on all soft money in 2000 campaign: Favors topic 16
Prohibit 'voter caging' which intimidates minority voting: Favors topic 16
YES on banning campaign donations from unions & corporations: Favors topic 16
YES on banning "soft money" contributions and restricting issue ads: Favors topic 16
NO on establishing the Senate Office of Public Integrity: Opposes topic 16
NO on allowing some lobbyist gifts to Congress: Strongly Favors topic 16

Favors topic 17:
Stay out of Iran
(+2 points on Social scale)

OpEd: More aggressive than most Dems on foreign policy: Opposes topic 17
Smartest strategic choice is peace: Favors topic 17
Extend peace treaties to Palestinians, Syrians & Lebanese: Favors topic 17
Foreign aid spending is only 1%; lead by remaining engaged: Strongly Favors topic 17
Up to the Iraqis to decide the future they will have: Favors topic 17
Demand Bush to explain to Congress on his plan on Iraq: Favors topic 17
Deauthorize Iraq war, and don’t grant new war authority: Strongly Favors topic 17
Phased redeployment out of Iraq, beginning immediately: Strongly Favors topic 17
Withdraw troops within 60 days after taking office: Strongly Favors topic 17
Voted for Iraq war based on available info; now would not: Favors topic 17
Progressive Internationalism: globalize with US pre-eminence: Favors topic 17
No troop surge: no military escalation in Iraq: Strongly Favors topic 17
Require Congress' approval before military action in Iran: Favors topic 17
YES on authorizing use of military force against Iraq: Strongly Opposes topic 17
NO on redeploying troops out of Iraq by July 2007: Strongly Opposes topic 17
YES on redeploying US troops out of Iraq by March 2008: Strongly Favors topic 17

Strongly Favors topic 18:
Prioritize green energy
(-5 points on Economic scale)

$100B per year by 2020 for climate change mitigation: Strongly Favors topic 18
$100B per year by 2020 for climate change mitigation: Strongly Favors topic 18
Remove energy dependence on countries who would harm us: Strongly Favors topic 18
Stands for clean air and funding the EPA: Favors topic 18
Reduce air pollution to improve children’s health: Favors topic 18
Ratify Kyoto; more mass transit: Strongly Favors topic 18
Supports tradable emissions permits for greenhouse gases: Favors topic 18
Keep efficient air conditioner rule to conserve energy: Strongly Favors topic 18
Establish greenhouse gas tradeable allowances: Strongly Favors topic 18
Rated 100% by the CAF, indicating support for energy independence: Favors topic 18
Designate sensitive ANWR area as protected wilderness: Favors topic 18
Set goal of 25% renewable energy by 2025: Strongly Favors topic 18
Let states define stricter-than-federal emission standards: Strongly Favors topic 18
Gas tax holiday for the summer: Opposes topic 18
NO on terminating CAFE standards within 15 months: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on removing consideration of drilling ANWR from budget bill: Favors topic 18
YES on reducing oil usage by 40% by 2025 (instead of 5%): Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on disallowing an oil leasing program in Alaska's ANWR: Strongly Favors topic 18
YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge: Favors topic 18
YES on factoring global warming into federal project planning: Favors topic 18
YES on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies: Strongly Favors topic 18

Opposes topic 19:
Never legalize marijuana
(+2 points on Social scale)

Medical marijuana now; wait-and-see on recreational pot: Opposes topic 19
Medical marijuana maybe ok; states decide recreational use: Opposes topic 19
Divert non-violent drug offenders away from prison: Strongly Opposes topic 19
Address drug problem with treatment and special drug courts: Strongly Opposes topic 19
End harsher sentencing for crack vs. powder cocaine: Opposes topic 19
Require chemical resellers to certify against meth use: Favors topic 19

Strongly Favors topic 20:
Stimulus better than market-led recovery
(-5 points on Economic scale)

Wealthy should go back to paying pre-Bush tax rates: Favors topic 20
Want to restore the tax rates we had in the ‘90s: Favors topic 20
Help people facing foreclosure; don’t just bail-out banks: Strongly Favors topic 20
Minimum wage increases haven’t kept up with Congress’ wages: Strongly Favors topic 20
Co-sponsored bills totaling $502B in spending thru 2005: Strongly Favors topic 20
End Bush tax cuts;take things away from rich for common good: Favors topic 20
Social issues matter; wrong time for tax cuts: Strongly Favors topic 20
Use tax dollars to upgrade infrastructure, not for stadium: Strongly Favors topic 20
America can afford to raise the minimum wage: Strongly Favors topic 20
Just Say No to GOP tax plan: Strongly Favors topic 20
YES on increasing tax rate for people earning over $1 million: Strongly Favors topic 20

[VanillaRhapsody]

181. Need even more...here are her words...read them for yourself

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Abortion.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Budget_+_Economy.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Civil_Rights.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Corporations.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Crime.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Drugs.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Education.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Energy_+_Oil.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Environment.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Families_+_Children.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Foreign_Policy.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Free_Trade.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Government_Reform.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Gun_Control.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Health_Care.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Homeland_Security.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Immigration.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Jobs.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Principles_+_Values.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Social_Security.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Tax_Reform.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Technology.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_War_+_Peace.htm

http://ontheissues.org/Celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Welfare_+_Poverty.htm

[VanillaRhapsody]

182. So yeah....your premise is what has been "discredited" here....

for quite some time now...

[Bluenorthwest]

117. I am tired of straight people who claim to speak for LGBT people. It's not all about money.

LGBT people as a community have strong resources and major funding. We have been using that financial clout with great precision ever since the Ronald Reagan Republicans neglected their public health duties and left us to create entire social and health policies and programs on our own. Elizabeth Warren can explain to you why she supported Reagan's vicious and inhuman policies, she did it because she thought they had sound economic policy. Of course it was sound for her 1%er class, but it destroyed the middle class.
You want to help LGBT people? Give us absolute equality in all law. It would be easy if not for all the bigotry among heterosexuals.
Reducing everything to cash dollars is despicable. I'm as sick of that as I am of being lectured by straights who should be out there advocating less bigoted views among their own community.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

118. I'm not 'claiming to speak for LGBT people'.

And I'm certainly not claiming to speak for you. I find you incredibly annoying, so I'd never try to speak for you or even waste my time trying to 'lecture to you'.

(Edit, btw, that you is you personally, not LGBT people as a whole.)

[Capt. Obvious]

72. Am I the only one

who didn't even read the OP but scrolled past to get to the comments?

[randys1]

73. LOL , then I will put you down as a Hillary voter if she is the nominee

even with the insult

unless you were doing the opposite

I am still learning who the "here solely to convince people not to vote for Hillary" posters are and arent

[Capt. Obvious]

77. She's not as evil

Why wouldn't I be?

[elehhhhna]

92. imo hil is the "alleged dem"

[L0oniX]

94. ^^^this^^^

[VanillaRhapsody]

104. says the "alleged"

[VanillaRhapsody]

103. In my opinion....if she is pledging to vote for whomever wins the Primary Election

then SHE is the Democrat....someone who cannot say that...IS the "alleged one".

[TDale313]

105. Yes, of course she's a Democrat.

It's silly to say otherwise. Just as silly as claiming anyone not already supporting her for the nomination is no true Dem. Democrats are perfectly capable of disagreeing on what direction they'd like to see our party head.

[VanillaRhapsody]

106. NO saying that you cannot support her if she wins the Primary.....

means you are an Independent not a Democrat.....because Independent means Undependable....an Undependable Democrat is an Independent voter by default anyone on this site who won't dependably vote for whomever WE Democrats decide in the Primary election is one...

Its very very simple

[lild]

116. Simply Rhapsodic

[eridani]

99. Right. Those who want to regulate banks and cut back spending on empire are just ALLEGED liberals

Everyone knows that real liberals advocate for reproductive rights and marriage equality, and then stop right there. [\sarcasm]

[reddread]

108. :)

i wish i could top that.

[Savannahmann]

111. I've started to ask this question, but nobody has answered. Perhaps you can help me.

What has happened to the Democratic Party if we nominate Hillary? We've gone from nominating, and electing giants. FDR, Truman, JFK. Giants. FDR created social safety nets that were the envy of the world at the time. He led this nation during the darkest days when we were simply put unprepared for war.

Truman, who stepped into shoes that were so large nobody thought he could hope to fill them. Fill them he did, doing some pretty amazing things. Including but not limited to taking Nuclear Weapon authority out of the hands of the Generals and keeping it in the hands of the President. Truman was a man to became a giant when he stepped into the Oval Office. He made some mistakes, everyone does, but he was able to stand and lead this nation. He refused to knuckle under to MacArthur and the bomb them now forces who wanted Nukes dropped like confetti across North Korea.

JFK. My God do I need to highlight his achievements? During the Cuban Missile Crisis he stood up to the Soviets, and his own Generals who were ready to bomb Cuba and ignore the threat of nuclear weapons because Curtis LeMay didn't think that the Russians were crazy enough to drop the bomb. If they were, we could easily drop way more bombs than they could. JFK who inspired the nation, hell the world to go to the moon no matter what it cost.

Good Presidents who weren't great like Carter. Who led by example during the energy crisis turning the thermostat down in the White House and wearing a sweater on TV to show he was enduring just like he wanted the rest of us to do. Carter who stood on the ground at Three Mile Island and told the nation that the reactor was not going to explode. Not a great President, but a damned fine man of integrity and honor. I'll take that thanks.

How far has the Democratic Party sunk that we are even talking about nominating someone like Hillary? We've stepped down from giants, to pretty impressive, to fairly good, to you have to be kidding me. The question that will run through the minds of the voters is this. Is that the best we have? And with Hillary, the answer will haunt us for decades.

So tell me, how did we go from the era of giants to the era of Hillary is unstoppable and the only way you wouldn't support her is if you are a white libertarian male? Is that what we've devolved to is insulting anyone who opposes a candidate that inspires none? What the hell happened to the Democratic Party? How could we have so many greats so close together and now this is all we are left with?

You notice nobody is talking about how awesome Hillary is. Nobody is telling us how inspirational she is. Nor are they telling us how she's going to be the best President ever. All we're told is that she can win, and she'll be way better than a Republican. That's like saying that a broken leg is way better than a brain injury. Guess what, I don't want the broken leg either. But don't tell me that I should be thrilled with the chance to pick the broken leg. Don't tell me that my reluctance to get the broken leg is some how less than loyal or makes me a bad person. It's a fucking broken leg, and nobody in their right mind wants it.

[fadedrose]

124. We can only know what happened

when and if we get a complete unabridged list of her contributors, and another list of those supporters who have been promised key positions in the government, or contracts with the government.

I feel a sense of desperation when her supporters cut down people who support others they prefer to be president for whatever reason.

[DeSwiss]

112. I WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON!!!1!1!!!

- Even if doing so would stop the end of the world. Now, howzat?! That clear enough for ya!?!

When I was a young man, we had a word for people like Hillary: ''Liberal Republican.''

I would never have anything to do with putting those Democratic Party destroyers back in power ever again.

No.

No.

[font size=10]NO![/font]



And I ain't white...............

[fadedrose]

122. Sounds like backlash to "Extremist Democratic Party"

[fadedrose]

115. I could listen to Obama speak every day for an hour

and loved his presidency not only because of what he says or stands for. I love his speeches, comments, sincerity and his goofy smile.

I like listening to Biden, not as much, but quite a bit.

I like listening to Warren, quite a lot.

I like listening to Sanders, Webb, and so many Senators who are not running.

But I don't like to listen to speeches by person in the OP, but I doubt I'll live long enough to be subjected to them.

[randys1]

120. I could care less if you like me or listen to me, but I do care who you vote for...

Especially if you are a liberal or Democrat because we need those folks to vote for the Dem nominee...

If saying you dont like me will get you to vote for whoever it is, then you are welcome to dislike me as much as you need to.

Really


As to people listening to me, we can see that they have made up their minds already.

Most of them are upper middle class white protestant males and their lives wont be upset much if a terrorist, uh I mean republican takes the WH

Well, they dont think it will anyway

[fadedrose]

121. I don't remember Michigan having a primary

or any other state. Do we vote according to the polls now?

Who picked the nominee and when was it finalized? by whom(s). I missed seeing the convention for some reason, and I have the news on almost all the time. I love seeing the people with broken English yelling out, "3 votes for Puerto Rico" or whatever, for ??????.

Actually I do like you. I'd just like to know about the electoral process. It seems to have "radicalized," by extremist Democrats.

[randys1]

123. Oh, so you missed the part where i said IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF

You see, if you are going to vote for whoever the Dem is, nose holding or not (I will have a basket full of clothes pin for my nose if it is Hillary, yet you will have to physically stop me from voting for her because it is that important, IF she is the candidate) then this thread isnt about you.

[fadedrose]

125. Sorry, randys 1

You did say "If" more than once as I recall. But the "alleged Democrats," in the title threw me off a bit.

But now is the time to criticize the nominees (even if there aren't any yet).
When they are nominees, it's too late. Now is the time to express honest opinions, not when it's too late.

Looking forward to staying and remaining a good Democrat even if hell does freeze over, and I think it might.

You know the saying, "I belong to no organized party--I am a Democrat," to paraphrase.

I love Bernie Sanders but feel that as an Independent, he has no chance. I wish when the time comes he will throw his support to someone, and then it might be easier to vote.

[randys1]

126. Thanks, you know I wonder about Bernie, since Liz says no way at all, not gonna run...I wonder

if Bernie is such a long shot or such a no way in hell candidate.

I know, he would have to live down or explain his socialist stuff, but if the population was ever ready for a populist candidate, someone who says the income inequality is simply untenable, it is now.

I always try to do "the math", and I suck at it, but, for instance


25% of those who vote (that is the biggest problem of course, not enough vote) are dedicated to hate/racism/immigrant bashing and are incapable of ever voting for the Democratic candidate, we can call them teaparty

20% of those who vote are old school republicans who will need one hell of a reason to vote for a Dem and very unlikely that they will

40% are democrats or liberals or both who cant imagine voting for a con

15% are somewhere in the middle, dont care what we call them, are they able to admit that income inequality is more important than banning abortion? More important than their guns? More important than fill in the blank.

I say lets get our economy back, and then we can argue about those other things...

[fadedrose]

137. Bernie's brave stance

on not attending the Netanyahu visit speech will help in the polls. Many who aren't anti-Semitic are anti-Netanyahu. Hope he loses his election.

Bernie has a chance - but I don't think the Repubs want to run against him and have him telling the truth. They'll spend a lot on his campaign, maybe Biden's and others, but no way will they unload their weapons on HC. They WANT her to run - just look at the dozen or so candidates running on the R slate. I'm starting to wonder if some of her money is R, counting on her losing.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

127. I'm a Democrat and I won't vote for Hillary. And, I'll still be a Democrat.

And, there's no "alleged" about it.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

[randys1]

128. ..

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

129. ...

[randys1]

131. Dont play for me, I dont have time to listen. Between my twitter account dedicated to

protecting the rights of voters (you see in America if you are white and especially if you have money, you will always have a real easy voting experience, but if you arent, well you know) and getting people registered and to the polls.

What is so weird is according to you Hillary and the repub candidate are the same, yet the Koch Bros and others are spending BILLIONS to defeat her (or whoever the candidate ends up being), weird.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

133. Well, I am white, but certainly not wealthy and I've been hungry poor.

I don't think Hillary is "the same" as the Repubs. I just think she's unfit to be president. And, "Not as Bad" is a No Sale as far as I'm concerned.

I'll vote in 2016 just not for Hillary or the Republican.

[randys1]

134. And if you are in a state where your vote matters, you will be helping overturning Roe.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

136. I live in Washington State.

I also lived, and voted, in California and Oregon.

I've voted in 13 presidential elections and my vote has never determined the outcome of an election. Nor do I think it would in any other state I might live. And, I have no illusions that it will determine the outcome of the 2016 election no matter how I vote.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

170. VR will be along soon to OFFICIALLY excommunicate you from the Party. Sorry it turned out this way.

She's serving a hall monitor-like function in this thread. Randy's too busy saving people with his tweets (honestly, he says that somewhere up above), so VR is functioning as the muscle. Save a spot for me in the Outcast Democrats' Clubhouse, please.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

173. She's expelled me from the party several times before. Or, is that "purged"?

She should save time and purge the party itself from the party.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

174. I like purged. It sounds sort of like pogrom, but not so....Soviet.

[Marr]

130. Capitulating to Hillary and the primary hasn't even started.

Frankly, I doubt *your* sincerity as a supporter of someone to her left. I don't believe any sincere sincere supporter of a liberal candidate would be so anxious to capitulate that they start doing it a year before the primaries even begin.

So it's more than a little odd to see you suggesting that critics of Hillary are secret Republicans.

[randys1]

132. You lost me

[sibelian]

139. Nah, you sort of ignored it.

Not really the same.

[randys1]

140. NO, I sincerely wasnt sure what you were trying to say

[redstatebluegirl]

135. I want a woman in the oval more than anyone i know but

I don't want one who is in bed with big money and the banks. Am I being unrealistic, I'm sure I am, but I want someone who can fight for us and I worry she will not. She wants power, people who want it so badly don't know how to use it properly.

Will I vote for her if she is the party's candidate, yes, because the republicans scare me more than she does. But I don't buy that Democrats who don't support her are not "real" Democrats! We have a right to a vote in the primary and the right to hear the issues on our side debated by two or more candidates.

Don't you dare call me a turncoat, I will never vote for a Republican for President, never!

[randys1]

144. Was NOT talking about primaries or you...made it CLEAR i was talking about those who

constantly say, on DU, that if Hillary is the nominee they will NOT vote for her


I have made that clear 200 times, I think

[AgingAmerican]

142. Huh, what?

Pathetic OP.

[randys1]

145. I know, working overtime to protect Women from dying in back alleys can be pathetic to some

[AgingAmerican]

146. It's the strawman

The 'Mindlessly support Hillary no matter what, or else the world will spontaneously implode and it will all be the Democrats fault' strawman is pathetic.

FYI the OP has zero to do with women dying in back alleys.

[Doctor_J]

149. Actually her biggest supporters will be pro-war, pro-drilling, pro-corporation DINOs

who actually have much more in common with the republican party than the Dem party that made the 20th century the American Century. They'll cheer madly over ever new war, new corporate giveaway. I wish you'd stop calling yourselves Democrats and give us back the name

[RiverLover]

177. 10000000000 Recs!!

[DisgustipatedinCA]

156. Oh my god, we're all teabaggers!!!11!!

155 replies, 4 recs. I believe you've uncovered a secret nest of teabaggers. For my part, I've been a secret plant since 2001, long before the 'baggers even existed. On the bright side, you did win Ridiculous Post of the Day.

[Dragonfli]

160. Vanilla has informed me I am not allowed to remain registered as a Democrat

Because I will not swear a blood oath to Hillary Clinton and her friends at Goldman Sachs. I am a little scared because in countries where such oaths are required, the folks they send to take away one's registration card would likely not stop there but arrest one for thought crimes against the party. I have double locked my door but Vanilla obviously holds a very high position to be able to take away my voter registration and such power often controls powerful goons


I guess the tent is big enough for Conservative war mongers, yet too small to include liberal pacifists.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

162. I believe she told you it was OFFICIAL that you weren't a Democrat.

Unless that was one of the accusations she was leveling at someone else. The two folks in question don't seem to have grasped that they hold NO POWER over most of us. I've been told to keep my powder dry, I've been warned about Sarah Palin on the Supreme Court, I've been harangued 8 different ways over the years. The only person who can MAKE me do anything is a candidate who runs a campaign that I can at least marginally believe in. That's why I haven't concerned myself with making a serious reply in this thread. I don't respond well to stupidity or to attempted coercion, and this thread has both in spades.

In any case, on your way out, just drop your voter registration card off in the cardboard donkey up front, and go make nice with your libertarian masters.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

161. 'Nilla and Randy have paired up...

LOOK OUT WORLD! Or at least "left-leaning independents."

[DisgustipatedinCA]

164. And what a sight they are to behold--the sum is somehow less than the constituent parts.

Also, you can't spell Republican without independent. Or if you can, you shouldn't be--spelling isn't my thing.

[Old and In the Way]

178. She's not perfect.

Who is? Every person has their faults, some implict and some explicit. Then you have Republican candidates.....point is, I will hPpily vote for HRC if she is the candidate. Don't know who will oppose, but if they can't convice me that they can beat the Republican, I will happily vote for HRC. Fuck the unknown anti-Hilary faction.

[krawhitham]

183. So, the Democrats/Liberals/Progressives have spend 6 years tearing down Obama

It's the way we roll