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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 10:49 AM Feb 2015

Hazel Park, Michigan retiree dies of hypothermia after gas shutoff

Funeral services were held Monday for John Skelley Jr., age 69, a retired factory worker who died of hypothermia February 1, after his gas was shut off by regional power monopoly Consumers Energy at his home in Hazel Park, a working class suburb just outside of Detroit.

Skelley, a Vietnam War veteran, was living with a roommate at the time, who owed an outstanding balance of $760.28. According to published reports, Consumers disconnected service on January 19, in the midst of a bitterly cold Midwest winter. The Michigan Public Services Commission (MPSA) says the state has a policy prohibiting the shutoff of services in winter to those over age 65. The state of Michigan, has now ordered Consumers to issue a report over the incident.

Hazel Park police reported that they found Skelley unresponsive, huddled under blankets next to a space heater. The medical examiner ruled that hypothermia was a major factor in his death. The high temperature was 18 Fahrenheit (minus 8 Celsius) the day he died, with a low of 2 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 19 Celsius).

Skelley is survived by five children and seven grandchildren. According to family, Skelley worked for 30 years at Phoenix Wire Cloth, a stainless steel wire mesh manufacturer. He was suffering from throat cancer at the time of his death, which undoubtedly weakened his resistance to the cold. He had been recently estranged from family members, who were unsure of his whereabouts.

more
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/18/util-f18.html

Freedom...to die freezing in the richest country on Earth, after serving your country.

81 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hazel Park, Michigan retiree dies of hypothermia after gas shutoff (Original Post) n2doc Feb 2015 OP
Feel for the guy, but over 700 dollars behind yeoman6987 Feb 2015 #1
In many places there is natural gas which is delivered via a buried pipe Fumesucker Feb 2015 #5
$700 is a lot of money. Octafish Feb 2015 #11
Did you miss the part about no shutoffs in winter when the resident is over age 65? Gormy Cuss Feb 2015 #15
I wondered if his room-mate was over 65 malaise Feb 2015 #57
Shutoff notices should lay out the options for consumers. Gormy Cuss Feb 2015 #65
in some areas, $700 can be no more than maybe a month and a half bill. niyad Feb 2015 #18
The account was in his roomate's name and he was months behind. Kaleva Feb 2015 #23
It seems that you don't feel much for "the guy" and that you didn't bother to read the article. n/t xocet Feb 2015 #66
The article was ok but didn't give enough info yeoman6987 Feb 2015 #70
Nobody deserves to have their gas Unknown Beatle Feb 2015 #72
How on Earth can a company still run if nobody yeoman6987 Feb 2015 #74
"It is better to pay every month as it will just make matters worse." greiner3 Feb 2015 #79
What in reply is realistically wrong? yeoman6987 Feb 2015 #80
"The state of Michigan, has now ordered Consumers to issue a report over the incident." Scuba Feb 2015 #2
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.. mountain grammy Feb 2015 #9
Really. Curmudgeoness Feb 2015 #75
Since "corporations are people, my friend," how about slumcamper Feb 2015 #3
Exactly. n/t tazkcmo Feb 2015 #38
good idea. this corporation should go to prison samsingh Feb 2015 #62
Sad Sherman A1 Feb 2015 #4
On what grounds? dumbcat Feb 2015 #29
In the article it Sherman A1 Feb 2015 #31
No, it doesn't dumbcat Feb 2015 #37
No, there are not. tazkcmo Feb 2015 #33
You are left to believe whatever you wish dumbcat Feb 2015 #40
Why be shy now? tazkcmo Feb 2015 #43
I understand completely dumbcat Feb 2015 #46
No, I lost. tazkcmo Feb 2015 #48
This is what the poster was saying. NCTraveler Feb 2015 #68
. CountAllVotes Feb 2015 #44
This is an embarrassment. kag Feb 2015 #6
Yep, insane with greed. Those who have it and those who THINK they're going to have it... stillwaiting Feb 2015 #12
OTOH dumbcat Feb 2015 #26
Their duty tazkcmo Feb 2015 #30
Can you cite the equivalent dumbcat Feb 2015 #32
Law shmaw! tazkcmo Feb 2015 #36
OK, I got it dumbcat Feb 2015 #42
Chastised is too weak. tazkcmo Feb 2015 #45
And with that dumbcat Feb 2015 #47
so, I surmise heaven05 Feb 2015 #64
You surmise wrongly dumbcat Feb 2015 #67
take your legal and regulatory points heaven05 Feb 2015 #71
You mad, Bro? dumbcat Feb 2015 #73
No time to waste on "mad" heaven05 Feb 2015 #78
Precisely Sherman A1 Feb 2015 #34
I have to wonder what dumbcat Feb 2015 #7
Even if the gas monpoly were found guilty of negligent homicide... gregcrawford Feb 2015 #8
Jebus, what is the good of the MPSA requiring providers not to shut off service... joeybee12 Feb 2015 #10
The article called it a "policy" dumbcat Feb 2015 #14
True... joeybee12 Feb 2015 #22
And the fact that he had dumbcat Feb 2015 #25
What precisely does it indicate, and what leads you to believe that? LanternWaste Feb 2015 #51
It doesn't precisely indicate anything, as dumbcat Feb 2015 #53
Canada has LAWS prohibiting this. Public utilities. America has "policies" permitting it. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #13
In WI your utilities can't be shut off between HappyMe Feb 2015 #16
I'm sure Walker will get right on that... Still In Wisconsin Feb 2015 #20
Veterans. tazkcmo Feb 2015 #28
I wish that was funny... kag Feb 2015 #56
Walker does what his handlers tell him to do. Still In Wisconsin Feb 2015 #81
but. . we are the greatest country in the world. niyad Feb 2015 #17
Libertarians whooping it up, like the Paulbots at that Repuke debate - bullwinkle428 Feb 2015 #19
that's literally what Murray Rothbard says: that it's more ethical to let a severely-retarded, MisterP Feb 2015 #55
How fucked up would a person have to be to think about things in that manner? bullwinkle428 Feb 2015 #76
not nearly as depraved as the people who looked at that and thought, "this is a message the world MisterP Feb 2015 #77
Apparently it was his roommate who was behind on the bill Kaleva Feb 2015 #21
Disgusting. bigwillq Feb 2015 #24
So glad I'm a veteran tazkcmo Feb 2015 #27
Thank you for your service. kag Feb 2015 #58
Five children and grandchildren ought to be finically set after this. nt kelliekat44 Feb 2015 #35
Many people from Appalachia have settled in Hazel Park over the years KamaAina Feb 2015 #39
What a disgrace! CountAllVotes Feb 2015 #41
Come on, DU ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2015 #49
I know, isn't that ridiculous? dumbcat Feb 2015 #69
Philadelphia (PGW) doesn't cut off anyone in the winter fbc Feb 2015 #50
Common Sense versus Expedited Profits moniss Feb 2015 #52
I'm happy to hear that dumbcat Feb 2015 #54
"new" America... kag Feb 2015 #60
In Illinois they won't terminate utilities in the winter... Stellar Feb 2015 #59
So it's okay if they freeze babies to death in the winter, but not those over 65? Vinca Feb 2015 #61
vet, just fodder heaven05 Feb 2015 #63
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
1. Feel for the guy, but over 700 dollars behind
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 10:58 AM
Feb 2015

I was on vacation for a month from mid December to mid-January this year and figured I would just pay the electric bill on my next month with a 5 dollar late fee......well I get back and we t through my mail and had a stern letter saying that if I didn't pay by tomorrow night it would be shut off.....I immediately called. Point is most electric companies are nasty and will shut you off quicker then cable, water and other utilities.


Plus isn't gas prepay?????? Something doesn't add up. You can't shut something down that is empty.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
5. In many places there is natural gas which is delivered via a buried pipe
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 11:29 AM
Feb 2015

And you pay like you do for electricity, based on how much you used in the last billing period.

Not all gas is propane coming from a bottle.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
11. $700 is a lot of money.
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 11:50 AM
Feb 2015

Too bad this 69-year parasite didn't know how to leech off the system better. In Detroit, there's an outfit called THAW -- The Heat And Warmth Fund -- that helps lazy turds and slackers skip paying the gas company.

Ha ha ha. Maybe in the next world he'll live in Florida.


Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
15. Did you miss the part about no shutoffs in winter when the resident is over age 65?
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 12:23 PM
Feb 2015

What doesn't add up here is why the utility shut off the gas.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
65. Shutoff notices should lay out the options for consumers.
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 04:08 PM
Feb 2015

That would cut down on incidents like this. In most places where I've lived if any resident in the household met an eligibility test, the utility account could not be shut off in winter months if it was used for heating and both electric and natural gas accounts had different rate structures for those using it for heat so the utility was aware of this.

I've lived in a situation where heat was iffy (oil companies weren't public utilities and would only deliver C.O.D) and even one mid-winter night without heat can drop the indoor temp to the 40s. That's not freezing but it's well below comfortable sleeping temperature. For someone who's also battling serious illness that would be very risky.

xocet

(3,871 posts)
66. It seems that you don't feel much for "the guy" and that you didn't bother to read the article. n/t
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 04:08 PM
Feb 2015
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
70. The article was ok but didn't give enough info
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 05:13 PM
Feb 2015

Like age of roommate. Did company even know the 65 year old lived there since it was not in his name. I am not going to bash a company just because this is a sad story. I mean how did the company know he was there?

Unknown Beatle

(2,672 posts)
72. Nobody deserves to have their gas
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 09:57 PM
Feb 2015

shut off in the middle of winter regardless of their age. What if the person that froze to death was 38 or 15 or 45 years of age? Does that make a difference? Absolutely nothing justifies having your gas shut off at any age when it's freezing cold outside.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
74. How on Earth can a company still run if nobody
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 11:03 PM
Feb 2015

Pays in the Winter? And more importantly how can you pay the back bills in April. It is better to pay every month as it will just make matters worse.

 

greiner3

(5,214 posts)
79. "It is better to pay every month as it will just make matters worse."
Thu Feb 19, 2015, 12:03 PM
Feb 2015

And maybe half the rent/expenses/groceries/utilities come from someone who may not have been able to work for months if not years.

Your complete lack of empathy makes me wonder if you are posting on the wrong, let's say political leaning, website.





 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
2. "The state of Michigan, has now ordered Consumers to issue a report over the incident."
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 11:06 AM
Feb 2015

That'll teach 'em.

mountain grammy

(26,624 posts)
9. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing..
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 11:40 AM
Feb 2015

tsk, tsk. Take your medicine and issue a report, that'll make it all good.

ugh. horrible story and all too American.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
75. Really.
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 11:05 PM
Feb 2015

What the fuck is a "report" supposed to do to help? I think that there is a lot more that should be done to them.

slumcamper

(1,606 posts)
3. Since "corporations are people, my friend," how about
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 11:25 AM
Feb 2015

a grassroots campaign to lobby the state attorney general to bring charges of murder against this "regional power monopoly," Consumers Energy? Their actions killed someone.

How do ordinary people bring such a case to trial?

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
29. On what grounds?
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:11 PM
Feb 2015

The guy wasn't a customer of theirs, and probably not even aware of his existence. What legal duty do they owe him?

Not trying to defend the action, but there are some inconvenient details to be considered before the lawsuit response, are there not?

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
31. In the article it
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:16 PM
Feb 2015

Mentions Michigan Law that prohibits cutting off seniors. That might be a start.

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
37. No, it doesn't
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:21 PM
Feb 2015

it states there is a "policy." If you can cite such a "law" in Michigan I will apologize.

Also, the guy that died wasn't the account holder and the company had no way to contact the actual account holder or determine the deceased age. How would the company know he was a senior?

But I look forward to seeing you cite the applicable Michigan law.

tazkcmo

(7,300 posts)
33. No, there are not.
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:17 PM
Feb 2015

While you state you're not trying to defend this, you are. So, I'm left to believe that you feel profits are more important than human life and if a person doesn't pay their utility bill then they deserve to die. Nice.

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
40. You are left to believe whatever you wish
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:24 PM
Feb 2015

though I would question the basis of such a belief since I specifically denied it.

But carry on, I have my own beliefs about your motivations myself, but I won't share them.

tazkcmo

(7,300 posts)
43. Why be shy now?
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:28 PM
Feb 2015

My motivation is based on the fact that a man died as a result of non-payment of a utility bill in the dead of winter and you express support for the corporation that did it because Capitalism. You get hung upon "policy" vs "law" but give the utility company a pass for killing a person due to non-payment.

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
46. I understand completely
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:32 PM
Feb 2015

Your motivation is based entirely on emotion. My comments were based on the facts presented in the article, law, and reality. You win!

tazkcmo

(7,300 posts)
48. No, I lost.
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:37 PM
Feb 2015

I lost a brother in arms. I lost another bit of pride in being an American, a veteran and a human being. I have very little of that left. You may claim victory as there is no "law" against this immoral behavior and so this man deserved to die because their profits are more important than a person's life. Congratulations.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
68. This is what the poster was saying.
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 04:12 PM
Feb 2015

I do think it was said in a way that could be misunderstood, and judging from your replies, clearly was.

1) Man 1 owes utility company $700.
2) Utility company ends up shutting off the gas of the account of man 1.
3) Man 2, unknown by the utility company dies.
4) Assumption being made that man 1 was under the 65 yo threshold for not stopping service during the winter.

I am not saying I think this is what should have happened or anything. Just trying to show the others position. There seems to be some things missing from the story. I would want to know how the 65 law works. For instance, if man 1 is the name on the bill and man 2 is his roommate, can man 2 fill out a form stating he is at said address and meets the age threshold. Even if not on a lease or on the bill. Very sad situation.

Really too many assumptions. The part that isn't an assumption is the man who died a cruel and what should be unnecessary death.

kag

(4,079 posts)
6. This is an embarrassment.
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 11:30 AM
Feb 2015

A vet????!!! A senior with cancer???!!! Hypothermia???!!!

There's plenty of blame to go around, but it comes down to (IMHO) the fact that the 1%ers are greedy bastards and they spit on the "little people" who end up fighting over the crumbs.

This country is insane.

stillwaiting

(3,795 posts)
12. Yep, insane with greed. Those who have it and those who THINK they're going to have it...
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 11:59 AM
Feb 2015

They have no problem screwing over lots and lots of people to try and satisfy their greed, but it seems like it's never enough.

Hideous culture.

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
26. OTOH
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:08 PM
Feb 2015

There is no indication that the gas company even knew this guy existed. He was not their customer. What duty do you think they have to a member of the general public of whom they are not even aware?

tazkcmo

(7,300 posts)
30. Their duty
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:14 PM
Feb 2015

Their duty is not to kill people in pursuit of profits. Here in Kansas City we have a LAW that forbids utilities to be cutt during winter no matter the age of the delinquent account holder.

tazkcmo

(7,300 posts)
36. Law shmaw!
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:19 PM
Feb 2015

It's inhuman, regardless of laws. You do understand a person died because of money? And you're apparently ok with this because the company isn't required by law not to kill people when they don't pay their bill.

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
42. OK, I got it
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:28 PM
Feb 2015

The law should be whatever you want it to be, because, well, because it is what you want and what you think is right. That'll work. I am suitably chastised.

tazkcmo

(7,300 posts)
45. Chastised is too weak.
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:30 PM
Feb 2015

I have deep, burning hatred for anybody that excuses the killing of someone due to non-payment of a utility bill.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
64. so, I surmise
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 03:49 PM
Feb 2015

you're defending Consumers because you have a stake in their company???? This vet should not be dead from hypothermia, in as someone said earlier in this thread, "the richest country in the world".

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
67. You surmise wrongly
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 04:12 PM
Feb 2015

and I have to wonder under what ignorant, ridiculous and moronic grounds would lead you to that conclusion?

First, I have no stake in Consumer's whatever it is. I live in Texas, and I have no interest whatever in Michigan regulatory affairs.

Second, I was not defending Consumers. You will note in my posts I only brought up legal and regulatory points, and nowhere did I say they should have done what they did. You, and others, read that into my comments all by yourselves.

Thirdly, to surmise that the only reason one would have to comment on the article, or to, as you say, defend, Consumers, is if I had a stake in the company is just asinine. Don't you have some things you would comment on or defend on their merits, without having a "stake" in the company? (You don't have to answer that. I'd rather not hear any more from you.)

Nobody should die "in the richest country in the world."

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
71. take your legal and regulatory points
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 08:40 PM
Feb 2015

and shove them back where they came from. Texas? Well.....figures. Okay....no one should die like that in the richest country in the world....and your spewing of unintelligent and unwise words shows me all I need to know about YOU. You're .....ahhh never mind. The pearls I have to impart would be thrown to the wrong person and would be wasted on someone such as you. Corporations are part of the american greed problem....there are, these days, little merit to comment on. Flying kites can be fun, I suggest you go and do just that.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
78. No time to waste on "mad"
Thu Feb 19, 2015, 09:29 AM
Feb 2015

you used the inflammatory language. No problem, put you right into the niche. I understood and acknowledged you, which is more than I should have done. Have a good one, texas.

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
7. I have to wonder what
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 11:36 AM
Feb 2015
The Michigan Public Services Commission (MPSA) says the state has a policy prohibiting the shutoff of services in winter to those over age 65.


a "policy" means as opposed to a "law"? If there was a law prohibiting such action, you would think that it would state such. Instead they use the term "policy", which seems to mean that it is a suggestion, or something not otherwise enforceable by law. It seems the state doesn't want utilities to do this, but doesn't have the statutory authority to do so. Does anyone know?

gregcrawford

(2,382 posts)
8. Even if the gas monpoly were found guilty of negligent homicide...
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 11:38 AM
Feb 2015

... , they'd just pay a slap-on-the-wrist fine and go back to business as usual without admitting any wrongdoing. Welcome to the NEW corporatism! "Our profits are more important than your life!"

Just wait until the TPP becomes law! Then the REAL fun begins. Get fitted early for your one-size-fits-all orange jumpsuit and be rewarded with AN EXTRA DICE-SIZED CUBE OF GREEN JELLO! Now get back in line.

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
10. Jebus, what is the good of the MPSA requiring providers not to shut off service...
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 11:43 AM
Feb 2015

If it apparently isn't enforced...yeah, now give them a report, lots of good that does. Pathetic.

I hope this gentleman is at peace.

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
14. The article called it a "policy"
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 12:21 PM
Feb 2015

I wonder why? If it was actually required, wouldn't it be called a "law" or a "requirement"? "Policy" is a weasel word and I am not sure it is enforceable.

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
25. And the fact that he had
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:02 PM
Feb 2015

five children and seven grandchildren, from whom he was "estranged" is troubling and seems to indicate that there was more going on than just the cold.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
51. What precisely does it indicate, and what leads you to believe that?
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:57 PM
Feb 2015

What precisely does it indicate, and what specifically leads you to believe as such?

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
53. It doesn't precisely indicate anything, as
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 02:16 PM
Feb 2015

precisely is a rather difficult determination in this case. I have no means, nor did I claim to, precisely determine anything.

What specifically leads me to believe that there was something more going on is that it is somewhat unusual, at least in my world, to be estranged from your five children and seven grandchildren when you are a senior, living with a roommate that doesn't pay the bills, and has throat cancer. But that's just my world, yours may differ.

 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
20. I'm sure Walker will get right on that...
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 12:38 PM
Feb 2015

Can't let a bunch of senior citizen cancer patient Vietnam veterans think that they have the right to sponge free utilities off the system.

kag

(4,079 posts)
56. I wish that was funny...
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 03:12 PM
Feb 2015

But you're right. Walker will very likely jump on that if he finds a neuron in his microscopic excuse for a brain to understand it.

bullwinkle428

(20,629 posts)
19. Libertarians whooping it up, like the Paulbots at that Repuke debate -
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 12:37 PM
Feb 2015

"LET HIM DIEEEEEEE!! WHOOOOOOOOOO!!"

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
55. that's literally what Murray Rothbard says: that it's more ethical to let a severely-retarded,
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 03:08 PM
Feb 2015

handicapped, or otherwise dependent child die, than to use any taxes to keep the kid alive

bullwinkle428

(20,629 posts)
76. How fucked up would a person have to be to think about things in that manner?
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 11:08 PM
Feb 2015

I just don't see how I could ever get there.

Kaleva

(36,312 posts)
21. Apparently it was his roommate who was behind on the bill
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 12:39 PM
Feb 2015

"According to the company's records, the service was in the name of Joseph Mixen, who requested natural gas service on Nov. 18, 2014. Mixen had previously lived at the home between March 2012 and May 2013 and had an outstanding balance of $760.28.

As a condition to restore service, he was required to make an initial payment and was then put on a payment plan for the outstanding balance with payments required every two weeks. According to Consumers spokeswoman Deborah Dodd, no payments were made after initial payment on Nov. 18. Dodd said shutoff notices were sent on Dec. 18, Dec. 24 and Dec. 31. Dodd said no mail was returned and the company had no phone number on record for Mixen."

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2015/02/12/vietnam-veteran-hypothermia-shutoff/23327507/

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
24. Disgusting.
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 12:58 PM
Feb 2015

It's disgusting that some humans are allowed to treat other humans this way. We have billions to send overseas but yet our very own are not being taking care of. Where is our bailout?

So sad. RIP

tazkcmo

(7,300 posts)
27. So glad I'm a veteran
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:09 PM
Feb 2015

Glad to be a veteran in a country that pays its' debts to war veterans! Love those bumper stickers! Deleicious, nutritious and keeps me warm too!

 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
39. Many people from Appalachia have settled in Hazel Park over the years
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:22 PM
Feb 2015

Did you hear the one about the family who drove up there from Kentucky? They saw a sign that read "Hazel Park Left".

So they turned around and went back to Kentucky.

CountAllVotes

(20,876 posts)
41. What a disgrace!
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:25 PM
Feb 2015

>>Meanwhile, the Obama administration has imposed cuts to the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program, (LIHEAP) whose funds have been reduced by 30 percent since 2009. The White House plans to freeze LIHEAP in next year’s budget at its current level.

and ...

>>Tanya’s half-brother Adam added, “I think it is sad that a veteran froze to death over monetary issues. I think there should be a program in place to help those who cannot provide for themselves.

*************

Looks like the VA paid for his funeral is my guess (flag on the coffin indicative of it). Once again, the great system out there failed this poor man as the Wall Street criminals walk away not even noticing nor caring!

I wonder what the VA might have to say (if anything about this?).



RIP Sir!

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
49. Come on, DU ...
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:46 PM
Feb 2015

think of the moral hazard created, if the utility had NOT shut of Skelley's heat in the middle of a cold snap! What be the incentive for others to pay, if they took the possibility of freezing to death off the table? Why no one would pay their bills!

(Do I really need to put the sarcasm thingy here?)

dumbcat

(2,120 posts)
69. I know, isn't that ridiculous?
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 04:34 PM
Feb 2015

That's like saying some people would not pay their water bill if they knew it wouldn't get shut off. Ridiculous!

 

fbc

(1,668 posts)
50. Philadelphia (PGW) doesn't cut off anyone in the winter
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 01:54 PM
Feb 2015

regardless of age.

It seems like a good policy. It also gives them many months to collect between winters.

moniss

(4,256 posts)
52. Common Sense versus Expedited Profits
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 02:08 PM
Feb 2015

Anybody with a heart and common sense would knock on the door and determine if anybody was inside. If even more common sense prevailed then you either do a blanket shutoff moratorium like Wisconsin enacted (pre-Walker) or you do it the same as evictions which is a county cop shows up with a court order to enter the premises along with the movers and you remove anybody inside. In any event this was about a debt of money and at such a small amount it is a small claims case. A debt of money is not supposed to be a capital offense except it appears we are there in the "new" America. As far as dumbcat and his argument about policy versus law, his moniker tells it all. A utility is regulated by the state through a public service commission that sets up rules, guidelines or policies etc. They have the full effect of law since the whole shebang is setup under a set of enacted state laws. The enacting laws give the authority to the commission to control the public utilities and the utilities are required to comply. These aren't simply suggestions and they carry penalties and impart liability for violations and are fully enforceable in court.

kag

(4,079 posts)
60. "new" America...
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 03:22 PM
Feb 2015
In any event this was about a debt of money and at such a small amount it is a small claims case. A debt of money is not supposed to be a capital offense except it appears we are there in the "new" America.


Yeah, in this "new" America, a debt of $760 can get you killed.

Stellar

(5,644 posts)
59. In Illinois they won't terminate utilities in the winter...
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 03:16 PM
Feb 2015

Springtime...there's a lots of people standing in line to pay the gas and/or electric bill. I mean a whole bunch of people. I assume people have gotten their income tax return and that's when they pay the bill. And not a minute too soon.

Vinca

(50,278 posts)
61. So it's okay if they freeze babies to death in the winter, but not those over 65?
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 03:24 PM
Feb 2015

In a humane society, things that sustain life would never be shut off for lack of payment. Sadly, we are not a humane society. Money rules.

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