Super 8 hotel kicks out a homeless couple with a room paid in advance

[Aerows]

On Valentine’s Day, at a Wendy’s in Columbus, Ohio, George Gruss and his wife met Stephanie and Louis, a homeless couple with no place to stay for the night. The temperature was going to be below zero. It was about that in Chicago, and I–personally–winced at taking the garbage out.

They took some time and spoke to the couple. They were in their early twenties. Stephanie was from South Carolina, Louis was from Alabama. They had parted ways with a friend and were on their way to a drug rehab center in Michigan.

Instead of doing what most people might do, brushing it off and figuring the couple would figure something out, or saying “Welp, not really our problem,” Gruss and his wife took the couple over to a Super 8 Hotel and paid for a three night stay to help them avoid the bitter cold.

<snip>

An hour or so after Gruss paid for the room and dropped the couple off–having been very clear about the fact that they were buying a room for this couple and not for themselves–he got a call from hotel security saying that the couple had been evicted for not having any identification. He was also told that his credit card would not be refunded for the three days he paid for.

http://www.thefrisky.com/2015-02-17/super-8-hotel-kicks-out-a-homeless-couple-with-a-room-paid-in-advance-because-they-had-no-id/?utm_source=share-fb&utm_medium=button

**********************

What in the hell is this country coming to when people can't even help those in dire need? Who is this heartless?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. I do not understand why Super 8 did this.

And I hope the adverse publicity will make them re-think behaving this way if the situation comes up again, though I doubt it.

Disgusting!

[Aerows]

5. There is a link to a petition

in the article to make this Super 8 accountable.

I found out about it on a twitter link, so Super 8 has really stepped in it. How can someone -anyone- be this damn heartless, and then so corrupt that they keep the man's money on top of it!?

[brooklynite]

7. Super 8 didn't

The franchise owner did.

[Aerows]

64. When there is rot in the roots

There is rot in the leaves.

I don't give corporate heads a pass anymore, and for good reason. If the company profits off of a franchise, ultimately, it is up to them to set a standard. If they *don't* have a standard, then it is all fruit from a poisonous tree.

[former9thward]

10. Was not Motel 6.

It was Super 8.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

11. Ooops! Thanks.

[elleng]

2. BAD business,

forget SUPER-8!

[salin]

3. k&r

[closeupready]

4. Isn't the refusal to refund/provide the service which was paid for effectively Theft Of Service?

[Aerows]

6. That's obviously theft

But it's the sheer evil of putting people out in weather with a subzero wind chill factor, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAD A PAID FOR ROOM. Hell, I wouldn't do that to a person that hadn't paid.

[former9thward]

9. No.

A business does not have to serve someone if it is a lawful reason. Motels require identification. (Generally towns or counties where the motel is at have regulations requiring that) If the couple did not have i.d. then they could be told to leave. The couple that paid for the room should challenge the charge with the credit card company if they are billed. They will win.

[99th_Monkey]

20. Before taking the money, the Motel was told exactly who the room was for

the motel had an opportunity to state it would require ID, but they didn't... they TOOK the money,
thereby agreeing to the deal, as presented to them.

[former9thward]

29. Neither one of us was there.

So we don't know what was said. Nevertheless the parties can not make an agreement that violates the law.

[99th_Monkey]

48. True but

we DO know "after Gruss paid for the room (he) dropped the couple off–having been very clear about the fact that they were buying a room for this couple and not for themselves" ..

So this means the motel clerk KNEW the room was NOT for the person paying for it, and yet the clerk also KNEW he would be REQUIRED by law to demand to see the want-to-be occupants ID, etc. etc. and yet the clerk didn't inform Gruss about the ID requirement but TOOK his money anyway.

That's the only point I was making.

[Blue_Tires]

18. I think technically the hotel chain will try to argue that it isn't theft of service

since Gruss paid for the room, he could stay there if he wanted to...

[99th_Monkey]

19. Except that the Motel was clearly told exactly who the room was for -nt-

[elleng]

8. 'Screencaps of George’s Facebook post quickly took off on Twitter,

and a petition was soon launched to get Super 8 to change their policy. It currently has nearly 12,000 signatures. Which just goes to show you, don’t be an asshole, because you never really know who you’re messing with.

George Gruss has since been in contact with the corporate offices of Wyndham Hotel Group, which owns Super 8, as well as Days Inn, Ramada, Travelodge, and Howard Johnson hotels. The people he’s spoken to have been supportive of what he was trying to do, and have told him that each Super 8 is independently owned, which is why there is not an official policy on these things. They are trying to work things out with him, but he is mostly frustrated that he has lost his chance to help Stephanie and Louis.'

[dissentient]

12. I actually know a manager of a Super 8, and yea, that is one of the rules

and it's strictly enforced.

If you don't have identification, they won't let you stay there.

Just sayin'.

[Aerows]

14. Well that's just awesome

Let's kick people when they are down.

[dissentient]

15. I'm just saying, that is what I know. The rules are the rules

It doesn't matter if you are homeless, a millionaire, or famous, or Average John every day citizen, no I.D. -- Super 8 won't rent a room to you. That is from my experience of having a friend who is a manager of one, I have seen that rule in action, personally.

[99th_Monkey]

21. Yes "the rules are the rules", except when you're a cop or a Wall St. greed-head. nt

[ret5hd]

35. EXACTLY!!!

Both the rich AND poor are prohibited from sleeping under the bridge!!!

[gvstn]

59. Yes, but they took the money.

They got an ID from the good Samaritan. He and his credit card were on the hook for any damage to the room. Maybe he overcomplicated things by giving too many details to the clerk.

I don't see why the guy didn't just rent the room, show his ID and give the couple the key. Once you check into a motel then you don't really have much interaction with the desk until you leave.

Either way they can't keep his money. That adds insult to injury.

[Glassunion]

32. It is a provision of the Patriot Act.

[ret5hd]

36. Tell that to the "buy the hour" motels. Shut 'em down!

[Glassunion]

38. I needed ID at one.

They were tenacious about it.

[Ramses]

52. The patriot act is a fucking joke of a garbage law

put into place by a war criminal. Its a way to track everyone all of the time. Its harassment and its about control and subversion. I shouldnt need an ID card to stay at a cheap ass motel. This country is a right wing hellhole and a police state

[SoCalDem]

17. Something similar happened to my friend's son.

He was en route to So Cal from Washington state (by car), and apparently caught the flu..He was feverish, nauseous & had a killer headache...and of course NO MONEY or credit cards.

He called his Mom, and she could NOT find any hotel that would accommodate him, even though she was willing to pre pay for a room .. They told her they could not help him

He found a walmart and slept in his car for two days (:

[treestar]

24. What is the purpose of the rule?

If someone pays you for the room and you give them the key, why do you have to know who they are?

[Glassunion]

27. Patriot act

Keeps us safe

[former9thward]

31. Not a rule, a law in most places.

Police want to be able to find out who transients are.

[JVS]

42. Without ID and preferably credit card the hotel has a difficult time recouping the loss if someone..

trashes the room.

[pnwmom]

65. Then they should strictly enforce a rule of not stealing people's money

by accepting -- and retaining -- payment for a room with conditions they never made clear.

[Terra Alta]

13. it's so sad

ID or not, this couple's room was paid for so they should have been allowed to stay. Cruel, heartless bastards.

I hope at the very least, the good Samaritan gets a full refund.

[Glassunion]

26. No ID no stay.

Thems the rules.

[Terra Alta]

28. they need to change their rules, then.

I'm assuming the person who paid for the room had an ID. That should have been good enough.

[Glassunion]

30. It's not the hotel's rules.

The hotel cannot change the rules.

[ret5hd]

37. First you say it's the law then you say it's the rules.

Which is it?

If it's the law, give me some cites.

[Glassunion]

39. It's law. I was just replying to your words.

[ret5hd]

40. My words? Suggest you re-read.

Now...just waiting for that cite.

[Glassunion]

44. Sorry. I'm posting from my phone, didn't realize the respondent had changed.

My cite is the Patriot Act.

Hotels are required to provide accurate tenant information to law enforcement upon request. IIRC they are also exempted from lawsuits stemming from providing that information. Which in many cases does not require a warrant.

[ret5hd]

45. That's not a cite...

That's a quip.

[Glassunion]

47. Sorry, you'll need to chill for a bit.

Not the easiest thing to research from a phone.

[ret5hd]

49. What do libraries have to do with motels?

[Glassunion]

50. Absolutely nothing.

That was the page I happened to be on my little 3" screen when I grabbed the screen shot.

[ret5hd]

53. Well then...still waiting.

[ret5hd]

67. And still...nuthin'. A day later.

[Glassunion]

68. I'm sorry... Totally forgot about you.

Under section 215 of the patriot act - same section allows NSA to swoop up all of our phone records, are provisions that allow the government to obtain accommodation records from hotels.

In 2007, I did some consulting for a firm that supports the reservation and POS systems for a few hotels. They had the task of having to find a way to retain copies of IDs in their systems along with the specifics of the individual staying... Name, DOB, address, DL#, last 4 of CCN, etc... The tricky but was keeping it out of their booking and POS systems. This info was strictly for LE, so we did some point to point encryption, with a segregated network.

It started when they had been served with a NSL and found that their records were insufficient for what the investigators had demanded. They only had written records of the tenant, and not tangible proof of the actual individuals.


Here is an article.


http://www.advfn.com/news_FBI-Fears-Loss-of-Its-Surveillance-Tools-in-Patrio_65363998.html

[ret5hd]

69. Talk talk talk...but still no cite.

[Glassunion]

71. Here is a book... You should read it.

Hospitality Law: Managing Legal Issues in the Hospitality Industry By Stephen C. Barthm J.D. & David K. Hayes, PH.D.
Published by John Wiley & Sons Inc. Hoboken (I'd highly recommend the House of Bangkok on Washington Ave. for good Thai Food) N.J.
Copyright 2006

<snip p.280>
The Patriot Act provides for the use of emergency warrants to search hotel rooms or to obtain guest information. Under the Patriot Act, federal agents of the U.S. Government may, with a search warrant obtain "tangible records" - This is that section 215 I was telling you about. You should read it, and the related FISA laws it refers to. - from a hotel relating to guests or "groups of guests" that registered at the hotel. Even without a search warrant, registration records of a hotel guest may be obtained by a federal agent if proper law enforcement identification is produced to hotel management. Furthermore, records of all electronic transmissions relating to the guest at the hotel must be produced if requested by a governmental entity. Those records include telephone records, e-mail correspondence, and transactions involving more than $10,000 in cash.
<snip>

[ret5hd]

72. Here's a document...You should read it.

I cqn't find the word hospitality or hotel in here. Maybe you can help.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-107hr3162enr/pdf/BILLS-107hr3162enr.pdf

[ret5hd]

73. OMG! Don't tell me you didn't know what you were talking about!!!

I was depending on you!

[Liberal_in_LA]

16. It's a "troubled hotel" : almost closed last year because of crime. article below

A Third Troubled Hotel On Columbus’ North Side Will Close For Now

A third north Columbus hotel will be shutting down at least temporarily because of reported crime problems.

The Super 8 at 1078 East Dublin Granville Road near the I-71 and State Route 161 interchange will be closing its doors for now.
After Judge Daniel R. Hawkins granted the city’s request for a temporary restraining order, the hotel was being evacuated and boarded up this morning.

City officials say there were more than 300 police runs to the Super 8 in each of the last two years, and more than 112 in the first half of this year. Those included drug deals and prostitution complaints.

The State Fire Marshal also found several fire code violations during multiple inspections in 2013 and 2014.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

70. Kind of like the by the hour hotels on Sepulveda north of Victory.

[99th_Monkey]

22. kick

[byronius]

23. Terrible story, and at the root of it --

American citizens should not ever be homeless. Period. Homelessness is not a product of lack of resources; it is a product of the attitude of a significant portion of the American population that people must suffer in order for others to feel self-worth.

In fact, most Republicans and Libertarians are of the opinion that American citizens should be allowed to starve and die. It's a very medieval mindset, partly a fact of religious belief -- The Prosperity Gospel requires that god curse 'bad' people with poverty -- and partly a simple and unexamined primal/tribal subroutine that gives sociopaths euphoric feelings when observing the misery of Not-Them.

I've been homeless. And I think it's disgusting that resources exist to feed, clothe, shelter and educate every single American citizen (probably about twenty times over) but that we cannot do so because some of us are addicted to the drug of Looking Down On Others.

We kinda suck. Well, Republicans suck. And they poison the well for everyone.

[yeoman6987]

34. They weren't homeless.

They were running away from home to get to drug rehab. The couple should have waited for the couple to get to the hotel then do the transaction and ensure they got to the room in time. Most people do that.

[Aerows]

62. "They weren't homeless"

Please cite the source of that information, please. According to the linked article, and the facebook page of the man who got them the room, they were homeless because they "parted ways" with a friend because they were headed to rehab.

[handmade34]

51. "American citizens should not ever be homeless. Period."

been there also... it is only a matter of collective priorities... so sad

good post!

[Glassunion]

25. This is a public safety issue. They should not be allowed to stay in a motel/hotel.

Safety is more important than liberty. And these are the very sacrifices that we good patriots must endure to secure our safety from terror.

In the name of national security, provisions of the Patriot Act require that any and all individuals be identifiable who wish to stay at such a business. This keeps us safe from terror.

The folks can contest it with their credit card company and there will be no harm. They won't have to pay for the room, and America will be safe from terror.

Only people who have done bad things need worry. If you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to fear.

These vital security measures are ok, no one lost any rights. Remember, we have a (D) running things, and that makes it ok.

If I need this => ... Then your meter is broken.

[davidn3600]

33. Hotels are getting REALLY strict with these kind of rules

You need to have identification and you need a credit card. Many hotels won't even accept cash anymore.

[Glassunion]

41. The ID requirements are in the Patriot Act.

The hotel has nothing to do with the requirement.

They have to be able to provide law enforcement with an accurate list of all tenants upon a request by law enforcement.

[ret5hd]

43. Waiting for that cite.

[Telcontar]

54. Google is your friend

Quit being snarky

[ret5hd]

55. Not being snarky. He claimed a fact...not up to me to prove a negative.

[Telcontar]

56. Whats the negative?

Fairly clear the PA requires ID at hotels. Demanding chapter and verse is just being pedantic. Esoecially when you can see it for yourself, the law is available online.

[ret5hd]

57. Then you, being educated on the subject, should be able to cite.

Right?

On edit: going to bed now. Will look for that cite in the morning.

[Telcontar]

58. Yup

I type "patriot act hotel ID requirement" in Google and the answer pops up.

[ret5hd]

60. Except it doesn't...

Did that exact google search. The first 3 links that come up I did a word search for "hotel" and nothing hit:

http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/pdf/faqsfinalciprule.pdf (lots of stuff about banks)
http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/patriot/ (nothing)
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/03/the_analog_hole.html (a single reply complaining about a hotel that "bent the rules" when the customer complained)

then a wikipedia link

then (finally) http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2009_3rd/Sep09_WakeUpCall.html

<snip>
The tragedies of September 11, 2001 generated numerous Congressional initiatives designed to prevent the recurrence of such devastating terrorist activity. However, most of these new laws and their attendant regulations have been directed toward better airport and aircraft security through the federalization of airport passenger and baggage screeners and increased aircraft security measures, but there are no new specific federal requirements for hotels.
</snip>

So I ask again: Cite?

[ret5hd]

66. What??? No link? You got nuthin'???

Didn't think so.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

46. I was turned away from a 5-star hotel because the address on my drivers license

didn't match the billing address on the credit card I used to book my reservation. I had to give up my California drivers license when I registered a car in Alberta. They said I could either pay with a Canadian credit card (which would have murdered me on the exchange rate) or fuck off. I chose fuck off and went across the street to the Sheraton.

I complained and got something of a conciliatory non-apology saying that the management was following their loss prevention guidelines.

[daredtowork]

61. An additional idiocratic policy regarding ID

You have to pay a fee for the ID - even if you have no income and the County knows damned well there is no direct cash welfare ( and if you attempted to earn the money, it would be subtracted from your General Assistance for shelter, so you would need to replace that). And of course there is no way to contact the DMV to discuss the problem and going there would cost bus money...

Anyway, if the State is going to use IDs like a human barcode, then they need to distribute them automatically instead of selling them. There is a real unemployment rate of something like 20% in California, and I bet this could be confirmed through the "unexpected" Medi-Cal enrollment numbers. It's not cool to continue to pressure this growing underclass with all sorts of "unfunded mandates". Redistribute livelihoods or subsidize these random "requirements", please.

Note: my ID was sponsored by the Dept of Rehabilitation, but due to an error with the voucher, it has been invalid for months. Just waiting for the moment this will cause some big sh*tstorm, because you know it will take another 6 months for all the authorizations to get around to fixing the problem...

[Aerows]

63. What enrages me most about this story

is here is a couple who are obviously down to earth enough to travel by car and eat at a Wendy's. That doesn't exactly strike me as the executive set. We all know the middle class pays the highest tax rates and the very wealthy the lowest.

The CEO of Wyndam Hotels should be ashamed of himself. This sort of crap goes on in our nation because people like him don't pay their fare share.

Homelessness is a preventable problem.