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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 09:51 AM Feb 2015

CIA whistleblower calls for prosecution of officials responsible for torture

By Tom Hall
WSWS.org, 17 February 2015

John Kiriakou, the former CIA agent who helped reveal the agency’s use of waterboarding in a 2007 interview, was released from prison on February 3 after serving a two-year sentence.

Kiriakou was convicted in 2013 on trumped-up charges of violating the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, which he said was retaliation for “blowing the whistle on the CIA’s illegal torture program and for telling the public that torture was official US government policy.”

In an interview with Russia Today last week, Kiriakou called for the prosecution of those responsible for CIA torture, declaring, “no one went to jail but me.”

“But what really bothers me, is that there is no prosecution of CIA officers who obviously violated the law; those CIA officers who were conducting interrogations in which prisoners were killed.” Kiriakou said. “I have no idea why there is no outrage, and why those officers are not being prosecuted.”

SNIP...

Moreover, last fall’s Senate torture report, which mentioned Zubaydah a total of 1,001 times, revealed that the agency used him as a “guinea pig” for developing its “enhanced interrogation” techniques after 9/11. Zubaydah’s lawyer says that he is the only detainee known to have been subjected to all of them. One procedure, developed after it was discovered that Zubaydah had a fear of bugs, involved locking him in a tiny “confinement box” filled with insects. His lawyer says that Zubaydah has suffered permanent brain damage from his ordeal and can no longer even recognize his parents.

CONTINUED...

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/17/kira-f17.html

70 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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CIA whistleblower calls for prosecution of officials responsible for torture (Original Post) Octafish Feb 2015 OP
Horrible. polly7 Feb 2015 #1
CIA Torture program reminds me of NAZI human experimentation. Octafish Feb 2015 #4
So interesting. polly7 Feb 2015 #5
"[E]xperimental inquiry into what is possible" OnyxCollie Feb 2015 #7
"That is the textbook definition of human experimentation"... MrMickeysMom Feb 2015 #14
Yet, America continues to try to justify those actions. No honor. Dark n Stormy Knight Feb 2015 #56
That's because NAZI's were gainfully employed and their skillsets were increased by elements of US bobthedrummer Feb 2015 #19
padilla was an American citizen too questionseverything Feb 2015 #40
That's rather sanctimonious of Kiriakou, don't you think? Scuba Feb 2015 #2
Cheney was public face, but the responsibility is Bush's, who signed off on it. Octafish Feb 2015 #3
HEY! You said "RT" and that makes this whole thread suspect. RT has "Russian" in the title rhett o rick Feb 2015 #27
Considering he is pro-waterboarding, why, yes! nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #18
Didn't his understanding evolve? Octafish Feb 2015 #21
Um, no---his understanding didn't 'evolve' until he realized he could troll the Far Left. nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #23
If that were so, he'd still be supporting US Government Torture program. Octafish Feb 2015 #25
No.....he's trolling the Farthest Left, Octa....pretending he gives a shite about msanthrope Feb 2015 #30
Do you have a government pension in your future, msanthrope? Octafish Feb 2015 #32
Kiriakou lost his pension because he went to prison. He.....like Jeffrey Sterling, msanthrope Feb 2015 #33
The psychotic heinous group-think of warmakers is destroying humanity and the earth. Dont call me Shirley Feb 2015 #6
They truly are! We are living in post-fascist America. Octafish Feb 2015 #22
Many of them are New Apostolic Reformation dominionist zealots bobthedrummer Mar 2015 #69
And they fit hand in glove into the goals of the mic, as if one dependent upon the other. Dont call me Shirley Mar 2015 #70
K&R. nt OnyxCollie Feb 2015 #8
I've got friends and family who are grieving over wars without end. Octafish Feb 2015 #24
K&R! marym625 Feb 2015 #9
William K. Black noticed that in regards to the Banksters. Octafish Feb 2015 #29
nope. not that many brave people in Washington marym625 Feb 2015 #58
Prosecution of these war criminals is step one JEB Feb 2015 #10
Gee, didn't this president come into office on behalf of transparency? What happened??? MrMickeysMom Feb 2015 #11
+1 BeanMusical Feb 2015 #13
Ask Obama. /nt Ash_F Feb 2015 #12
Just finished watching "Kill the Messenger." Searched historical news articles about Gary Webb. kelliekat44 Feb 2015 #15
Ridiculous. John Kiriakou is pro-torture, everyone knows that. n/t yodermon Feb 2015 #16
Sarcasm? [n/t] Maedhros Feb 2015 #38
And, the thugs that participated in it. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2015 #17
He should quit being so sanctimonious BrotherIvan Feb 2015 #20
Hell, he is a whistle-blower, so how much credence can he have? rhett o rick Feb 2015 #28
He's no whistleblower....he DEFENDED the use of waterboarding..... msanthrope Feb 2015 #31
The "Farthest Left?" BrotherIvan Feb 2015 #37
Nope..paraphrasing the TOS.... msanthrope Feb 2015 #39
Know thyself BrotherIvan Feb 2015 #41
Well--this the first time on DU I've been accused of being far Left. I suppose that's an msanthrope Feb 2015 #43
No BrotherIvan Feb 2015 #44
Why not just state plainly what you mean? I never alert on personal insults, because I think they msanthrope Feb 2015 #45
I'm not afraid of hides BrotherIvan Feb 2015 #47
Yes--that a few, sensible DUers remember when this CIA agent brazenly went on national msanthrope Feb 2015 #48
False equivalence BrotherIvan Feb 2015 #50
Which is exactly what I wrote.....anyone we can get for torture, WE SHOULD. msanthrope Feb 2015 #51
Well at least we agree on that. BrotherIvan Feb 2015 #52
The only place we disagree is where I think people like Kiriakou remain the pieces of shit msanthrope Feb 2015 #53
Then we don't disagree BrotherIvan Feb 2015 #55
Then I was wrong, and I apologize, truly. nt msanthrope Feb 2015 #59
You don't have to apologize BrotherIvan Feb 2015 #62
Link to where he defended waterboarding? Vattel Feb 2015 #63
Oh yeah, whistle-blowers are the worst! BrotherIvan Feb 2015 #36
This thread is a great example of the divide in the Democratic Party as represented rhett o rick Feb 2015 #26
Amazing how much the party has changed. raindaddy Feb 2015 #35
'Amazing how the whistle blowers are subjected to more scrutiny than the corruption of the system... Octafish Feb 2015 #46
Thank you Octafish raindaddy Feb 2015 #60
In other words, Jamastiene Feb 2015 #64
This message was self-deleted by its author guyton Feb 2015 #34
A National Press Corpse Octafish Feb 2015 #67
Go look this guy up on... ReRe Feb 2015 #42
''I would do it all again.'' Octafish Feb 2015 #54
My day is not complete.... ReRe Feb 2015 #68
This country has no moral authority and will never have any until the torturers are brought to sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #49
Judge Laurence Silberman compared a journalist who said, 'Bush lied America into war' with NAZIs. Octafish Feb 2015 #57
MUST. LOOK. FORWARD. blkmusclmachine Feb 2015 #61
That's what Judge Silberman said, just the other day. Octafish Feb 2015 #65
That's just what Presidential Advisor Cass Sunstein said the other day. Octafish Feb 2015 #66

polly7

(20,582 posts)
1. Horrible.
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 09:58 AM
Feb 2015

'Can't even recognize his own parents'. I can't even imagine how that family must hurt seeing him that way.

"The Obama administration finally admitted in 2011 that Zubaydah was neither a top Al Qaeda leader, nor a member of Al Qaeda, nor even “formally” identified with the organization."

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
4. CIA Torture program reminds me of NAZI human experimentation.
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 10:08 AM
Feb 2015

Jose Padilla, the convicted dirty bomber in his mind, is another guy James Comey* may want to forget.



The government of the United States destroyed his mind.

*"We now know much of what Jose Padilla knows, and what we have learned confirms that the President made the right call and that that call saved lives." -- James Comey, Deputy Attorney General; press conference, when asked about Bush torture program.



What Cold War CIA Interrogators Learned from the Nazis

The Daily Beast
Feb. 11, 2014

At a secret black site in the years after the end of WWII, CIA and US intelligence operatives tested LSD and other interrogation techniques on captured Soviet spies—all with the help of former Nazi doctors. An excerpt from Annie Jacobsen’s Operation Paperclip, published this week.

It was 1946 and World War II had ended less than one year before. In Top Secret memos being circulated in the elite ‘E’ ring of the Pentagon, the Joint Chiefs of Staff were preparing for ‘total war’ with the Soviets—to include atomic, chemical, and biological warfare. They even set an estimated start date of 1952. The Joint Chiefs believed that the U.S. could win this future war, but not for reasons that the general public knew about. Since war’s end, across the ruins of the Third Reich, U.S. military officers had been capturing and then hiring Hitler’s weapons makers, in a Top Secret program that would become known as Operation Paperclip. Soon, more than 1,600 of these men and their families would be living the American dream, right here in the United States. From these Nazi scientists, U.S. military and intelligence organizations culled knowledge of Hitler’s most menacing weapons including sarin gas and weaponized bubonic plague.

As the Cold War progressed, the program expanded and got stranger still. In 1948, Operation Paperclip’s Brigadier General Charles E. Loucks, Chief of U.S. Chemical Warfare Plans in Europe, was working with Hitler’s former chemists when one of the scientists, Nobel Prize winner Richard Kuhn, shared with General Loucks information about a drug with military potential being developed by Swiss chemists. This drug, a hallucinogen, had astounding potential properties if successfully weaponized. In documents recently discovered at the U.S. Army Heritage Center in Pennsylvania, Loucks quickly became enamored with the idea that this drug could be used on the battlefield to “incapacitate not kill.” The drug was Lysergic acid diethylamide, or LSD.

It did not take long for the CIA to become interested and involved. Perhaps LSD could also be used for off-the-battlefield purposes, a means through which human behavior could be manipulated and controlled. In an offshoot of Operation Paperclip, the CIA teamed up with Army, Air Force and Naval Intelligence to run one of the most nefarious, classified, enhanced interrogation programs of the Cold War. The work took place inside a clandestine facility in the American zone of occupied Germany, called Camp King. The facility’s chief medical doctor was Operation Paperclip’s Dr. Walter Schreiber, the former Surgeon General of the Third Reich. When Dr. Schreiber was secretly brought to America—to work for the U.S. Air Force in Texas—his position was filled with another Paperclip asset, Dr. Kurt Blome, the former Deputy Surgeon General of the Third Reich and the man in charge of the Nazi’s program to weaponize bubonic plague. The activities that went on at Camp King between 1946 and the late 1950s have never been fully accounted for by either the Department of Defense or the CIA.

Camp King was strategically located in the village of Oberursel, eleven miles northwest of the United States European Command (EUCOM) headquarters in Frankfurt. Officially the facility had three names: the U.S. Military Intelligence Service Center at Oberursel, the 7707th European Command Intelligence Center, and Camp King. In 1945, the place housed captured Nazis but by 1948 most of its prisoners were Soviet bloc spies. For more than a decade Camp King would function as a Cold War black site long before black sites were known as such—an ideal facility to develop enhanced interrogation techniques in part because it was “off-site” but mainly because of its access to Soviet prisoners.

It was an international crisis in June of 1948 that gave Operation Paperclip momentum at Camp King. Early on the morning of June 24, the Soviets cut off all land and rail access to the American zone in Berlin, an action that would become known as the Berlin Blockade. “The Soviet blockade of Berlin in 1948 clearly indicated that the wartime alliance [between the Soviets and the United States] had dissolved,” explained CIA deputy director for operations Jack Downing. “Germany then became a new battlefield between east and west.”

“In our conversation of 9 February 1951, I outlined to you the possibilities of augmenting the usual interrogation methods by the use of drugs, hypnosis, shock, etc., and emphasized the defensive aspects as well as the offensive opportunities in this field of applied medical science,” wrote Dulles.
At this time, the CIA believed the Soviets were pursing mind control programs—supposedly a means of getting captured spies to talk—and the Agency wanted to know what it would be up against if the Russians got hold of its American spies. Since the end of the war, the various U.S. military branches had developed advanced air, land and sea rescue programs, based in part by research conducted by Nazi doctors during the war. But the Soviets had also made great advances in rescue programs and this presented a serious, new concern for the Pentagon and the CIA. If a downed U.S. pilot or soldier was rescued and captured by the Russians, that person would almost certainly be subjected to unconventional Soviet interrogation techniques. In an attempt to determine what kinds of Soviet techniques might be used, a research program was set up at Camp King. Documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) reveal that the U.S. developed its post-war enhanced interrogation techniques here at Camp King, under the CIA code name Operation Bluebird.

CONTINUED...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/11/what-cold-war-cia-interrogators-learned-from-the-nazis.html

polly7

(20,582 posts)
5. So interesting.
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 10:23 AM
Feb 2015

I remember my grandparents talking about the experiments here in Canada, in Weyburn, SK. They lived there at the time and the horror stories scared me so bad as a little girl. I had saved a good article on it all on another computer that died, but it said it was all connected. The doctors are now lauded as pioneers in psychiatry and treatment, but what they did to the people there was horrible.


 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
7. "[E]xperimental inquiry into what is possible"
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 10:56 AM
Feb 2015
Review Articles TOTALITARIANISM The Revised Standard Version By ROBERT BURROWES*

Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 3rd edition, New York, Harcourt, Brace & Company, 1966, 526 pp. $8.75.

Carl J. Friedrich and Zbigniew K. Brzezinski, Totalitarian Dictatorship and Autocracy, 2nd edition, revised by Carl J. Friedrich, Cambridge, Mass., Harvard University Press, 1965, 439 pp. $9.95.

Arendt's conception of totalitarianism is that of a "fictitious, topsy-turvy world" (437). The most striking feature of that world is less the omnipresence than the non-utilitarian character of terror. Unlike the terror of other systems, totalitarian terror is not understandable in terms of the utilitarian motives or self-interest of the rulers. It is explicable only as a means to the insane, anti-utilitarian and selfless "experimental inquiry into what is possible" (436, 440).


The CIA Didn’t Just Torture, It Experimented on Human Beings
http://www.thenation.com/article/193185/cia-didnt-just-torture-it-experimented-human-beings

In its response to the Senate report, the CIA justified its decision to hire the duo: “We believe their expertise was so unique that we would have been derelict had we not sought them out when it became clear that CIA would be heading into the uncharted territory of the program.” Mitchell and Jessen’s qualifications did not include interrogation experience, specialized knowledge about Al Qaeda or relevant cultural or linguistic knowledge. What they had was Air Force experience in studying the effects of torture on American prisoners of war, as well as a curiosity about whether theories of “learned helplessness” derived from experiments on dogs might work on human enemies.

To implement those theories, Mitchell and Jessen oversaw or personally engaged in techniques intended to produce “debility, disorientation and dread.” Their “theory” had a particular means-ends relationship that is not well understood, as Mitchell testily explained in an interview on Vice News: “The point of the bad cop is to get the bad guy to talk to the good cop.” In other words, “enhanced interrogation techniques” (the Bush administration’s euphemism for torture) do not themselves produce useful information; rather, they produce the condition of total submission that will facilitate extraction of actionable intelligence.

~snip~

But here we are again. This brings us back to Mitchell and Jessen. Because of their experience as trainers in the military’s Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape (SERE) program, after 9/11 they were contacted by high-ranking Pentagon officials and, later, by lawyers who wanted to know whether some of those SERE techniques could be reverse-engineered to get terrorism suspects to talk.

The road from abstract hypotheticals (can SERE be reverse-engineered?) to the authorized use of waterboarding and confinement boxes runs straight into the terrain of human experimentation. On April 15, 2002, Mitchell and Jessen arrived at a black site in Thailand to supervise the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, the first “high-value detainee” captured by the CIA. By July, Mitchell proposed more coercive techniques to CIA headquarters, and many of these were approved in late July. From then until the program was dry-docked in 2008, at least thirty-eight people were subjected to psychological and physical torments, and the results were methodically documented and analyzed. That is the textbook definition of human experimentation.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
14. "That is the textbook definition of human experimentation"...
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 02:20 PM
Feb 2015

You bet your ass, it is.

There are so many levels on which this is criminal.

Could the SERE be reverse engineered? Good golly… I should say not.

Should we have understood the need to break the CIA into a thousand pieces more than 50 years ago?… Yes.

 

bobthedrummer

(26,083 posts)
19. That's because NAZI's were gainfully employed and their skillsets were increased by elements of US
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 04:37 PM
Feb 2015

national security-that's old news but still news to some of the youngsters that love the truth.

Often a simple thing like a PO box in a National Park signified much deeper things.

P.O. Box 1142 (Wikipedia entry)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._O._Box_1142

Ret. Major Arnold Kohn finally tells his story of the secret POW camp that changed the world (Mark Anderson post&update 2007, 2013 Monterey County Weekly)
http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/news/cover/ret-maj-arnold-kohn-finally-tells-his-story-of-the/article_dbf9cdb2-66f5-5dbc-b045-dcae52e26d5c.html

It's much more sophisticated today, especially your local and regional Behavioral Sciences centers that carry on in that NAZI tradition.

I have a simple on topic question to ask Octafish-when (by who) were the direct conversion of neural signals into radio signals and vice versa achieved? I'd put my money on some of those folks that lived in P.O. Box 1142 for awhile. Then imagine being on the worst possible lsd trip for months at a time-those were the days of MKULTRA for unwitting souls that were "recruited" as non-consensual human research subjects to combat Communism (fill in the blanks since then) and defend the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave from all enemies domestic and foreign.

Yep, "our" NAZI legacy is a vital part and parcel of this Nation today. K&R brother.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
3. Cheney was public face, but the responsibility is Bush's, who signed off on it.
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 10:02 AM
Feb 2015


The guy hates war criminals, in a compelling kind of way.
 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
27. HEY! You said "RT" and that makes this whole thread suspect. RT has "Russian" in the title
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:20 PM
Feb 2015

in case you didn't know.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
21. Didn't his understanding evolve?
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:04 PM
Feb 2015

So, today, he is against torture. That's why he went to jail.

If he had CONTINUED to be "pro-waterboarding," he wouldn't have gone to jail.

That's the real crime, isn't it?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
25. If that were so, he'd still be supporting US Government Torture program.
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:16 PM
Feb 2015

And he never would have been prosecuted for outting the US Government Torture program as INEFFECTIVE.

There's that "whistleblower" word again.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
30. No.....he's trolling the Farthest Left, Octa....pretending he gives a shite about
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:34 PM
Feb 2015

the people he gladly tortured, and joining the Obama-is-evil brigade.

There will be a book. Lectures. Hell, you can donate to his cause, now!

It's trolling by a CIA operative who doesn't have a pension anymore......trolling at its finest.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
32. Do you have a government pension in your future, msanthrope?
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:45 PM
Feb 2015

If so, would you give it up to expose corruption? War crimes? Treason?

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
33. Kiriakou lost his pension because he went to prison. He.....like Jeffrey Sterling,
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:48 PM
Feb 2015

are CIA operatives doing what they do best.....finding the best position for gain. Trolling.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
6. The psychotic heinous group-think of warmakers is destroying humanity and the earth.
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 10:52 AM
Feb 2015

Yet they believe they are sane. They believe they are right. They believe they are creating good. They believe what they are doing is positive. They are so devoid of creating anything right, good, positive and just that they have the life of us and the earth dangling by a thread. How can we begin to stop this psychotic mentality before all is lost?

Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words. Keep your words positive because your words become your behaviors. Keep your behaviors positive because your behaviors become your habits. Keep your habits positive because your habits become your values. Keep your values positive because your habits become your destiny. Ghandi

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
24. I've got friends and family who are grieving over wars without end.
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:12 PM
Feb 2015

And the lying liars, torturers, banksters and warmongers who make a killing walk free.



The Knights of the Revolving Door

When War is Swell: the Carlyle Group and the Middle East at War

by JEFFREY ST. CLAIR
CounterPunch, WEEKEND EDITION SEPTEMBER 6-8, 2013 , Paris.

A couple of weeks ago, in a dress rehearsal for her next presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton, the doyenne of humanitarian interventionism, made a pit-stop at the Carlyle Group to brief former luminaries of the imperial war rooms about her shoot-first-don’t-ask-questions foreign policy.

For those of you who have put the playbill of the Bush administration into a time capsule and buried it beneath the compost bin, the Carlyle Group is essentially a hedge fund for war-making and high tech espionage. They are the people who brought you the Iraq war and all those intrusive niceties of Homeland Security. Call them the Knights of the Revolving Door, many of Carlyle’s executives and investors having spent decades in the Pentagon, the CIA or the State Department, before cashing in for more lucrative careers as war profiteers. They are now licking their chops at the prospect for an all-out war against Syria, no doubt hoping that the conflagration will soon spread to Lebanon, Jordan and, the big prize, Iran.

For a refresher course on the sprawling tentacles of the Carlyle Group, here’s an essay that first appeared in CounterPunch’s print edition in 2004. Sadly, not much has changed in the intervening years, except these feted souls have gotten much, much richer. — JSC


Across all fronts, Bush’s war deteriorates with stunning rapidity. The death count of American soldiers killed in Iraq will soon top 1000, with no end in sight. The members of the handpicked Iraqi Governor Council are being knocked off one after another. Once loyal Shia clerics, like Ayatollah Sistani, are now telling the administration to pull out or face a nationalist insurgency. The trail of culpability for the abuse, torture and murder of Iraqi detainees seems to lead inexorably into the office of Donald Rumsfeld. The war for Iraqi oil has ended up driving the price of crude oil through the roof. Even Kurdish leaders, brutalized by the Ba’athists for decades, are now saying Iraq was a safer place under their nemesis Saddam Hussein. Like Medea whacking her own kids, the US turned on its own creation, Ahmed Chalabi, raiding his Baghdad compound and fingering him as an agent of the ayatollahs of Iran. And on and on it goes.

Still not all of the president’s men are in a despairing mood. Amid the wreckage, there remain opportunities for profit and plunder. Halliburton and Bechtel’s triumphs in Iraq have been chewed over for months. Less well chronicled is the profiteering of the Carlyle Group, a company with ties that extend directly into the Oval Office itself.

Even Pappy Bush stands in line to profit handsomely from his son’s war making. The former president is on retainer with the Carlyle Group, the largest privately held defense contractor in the nation. Carlyle is run by Frank Carlucci, who served as the National Security advisor and Secretary of Defense under Ronald Reagan. Carlucci has his own embeds in the current Bush administration. At Princeton, his college roommate was Donald Rumsfeld. They’ve remained close friends and business associates ever since. When you have friends like this, you don’t need to hire lobbyists..

Bush Sr. serves as a kind of global emissary for Carlyle. The ex-president doesn’t negotiate arms deals; he simply opens the door for them, a kind of high level meet-and-greet. His special area of influence is the Middle East, primarily Saudi Arabia, where the Bush family has extensive business and political ties. According to an account in the Washington Post, Bush Sr. earns around $500,000 for each speech he makes on Carlyle’s behalf.

One of the Saudi investors lured to Carlyle by Bush was the BinLaden Group, the construction conglomerate owned by the family of Osama bin Laden. According to an investigation by the Wall Street Journal, Bush convinced Shafiq Bin Laden, Osama’s half brother, to sink $2 million of BinLaden Group money into Carlyle’s accounts. In a pr move, the Carlyle group cut its ties to the BinLaden Group in October 2001.

One of Bush Sr.’s top sidekicks, James Baker, is also a key player at Carlyle. Baker joined the weapons firm in 1993, fresh from his stint as Bush’s secretary of state and chief of staff. Packing a briefcase of global contacts, Baker parlayed his connections with heads of state, generals and international tycoons into a bonanza for Carlyle. After Baker joined the company, Carlyle’s revenues more than tripled.

SNIP...

So the men behind the Carlyle Group drift through Washington like familiar ghosts, profiteering off the carnage of Bush’s disastrous crusades, untroubled by any thought of congressional investigation or criminal prosecution, firm in the knowledge that the worse things get for the people of the world, the less secure and more gripped by fear the citizens their own country become, the more millions they will reap for themselves. Perpetual war means perpetual profits.

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/09/06/when-war-is-swell-the-carlyle-group-and-the-middle-east-at-war/



Old, old news to you, OnyxCollie. Most Americans have not heard a word of it.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
9. K&R!
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 11:51 AM
Feb 2015

Damn straight we need to prosecute. The fact we aren't speaks volumes about our morality and ethics. Or more precisely, lack of both

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
29. William K. Black noticed that in regards to the Banksters.
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:27 PM
Feb 2015

I wonder who will notice that for the Warmongers?



How the System Looks After Its Own

Why US War Criminals Walk Free

by CHARLES PIERSON
CounterPunch, WEEKEND EDITION FEBRUARY 13-15, 2015

“Why Is Henry Kissinger Walking Around Free?” Andy Piascik asks (CounterPunch, Feb. 6-8, 2015). On January 29, Kissinger appeared before the Senate Armed Services Committee to testify on the Iranian nuclear threat. Because, you know, some countries just can’t be trusted.

Also present were Medea Benjamin and CODEPINK who were there to confront the celebrated diplomat, author, and war criminal with pink plastic toy handcuffs.

Not only is Kissinger still walking around free, he is fawned over. The February 10 New York Daily News reports that Kissinger’s endorsement is a “sought-after prize” for 2016 Republican Presidential hopefuls “looking to boost their foreign policy credentials.” (The Daily News predicts that Kissinger’s rose will go to suitor Jeb Bush.)

The short answer to the mystery of why Kissinger remains at large is that US leaders look after their own. Democrats and Republicans even share this courtesy with each other. When in December, the Senate released its report on torture under the Bush Administration there was briefly talk of prosecutions, but such talk was quickly eclipsed by the announcement of President Obama’s new Cuba policy. Anyone who had been paying attention knew not to expect prosecutions. Obama had announced at the beginning of his administration that there would be no prosecutions of Bush era officials. That turned out to be a wise decision given Obama’s subsequent penchant for using drones to blow foreign civilians into tiny, charred bits. He who lives in a glass White House shouldn’t throw stones.

SNIP...

US hostility to the ICC was apparent even before the Act’s passage. President Bill Clinton signed the Rome Statute, the treaty which created the International Criminal Court, but did not submit it to the Senate for ratification. One of George W. Bush’s first acts as president was to “unsign” the Rome Statute, leading baffled law professors to splutter: “Can he do that?” Not that it mattered. The Rome Statute would never have passed in the Senate.

Happily, Kissinger’s and Nixon’s victims—and Bush’s and Obama’s—were foreigners. Otherwise, killing them might have been serious. As every American knows, the United States acts only for good. We do not commit war crimes. This mindset has to change. The Nixons, the Kissingers, the Cheneys, the Bushes and Clintons and Obamas rely on it to keep themselves out of the slammer. To hear them tell it, their only concern is protecting Americans’ lives. Antiwar activists can and must convince Americans that these butchers protect no one but the powerful.

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/02/13/why-us-war-criminals-walk-free/



Not that many brave people in Washington, it seems. They sure are friends when it comes to money, though. Too bad about all the broken and dead bodies.

marym625

(17,997 posts)
58. nope. not that many brave people in Washington
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 09:14 PM
Feb 2015

And as time goes on there are fewer and fewer.

Mitchell should have been in jail along with Kissinger. Damn, it would take an entire post yo name all those bastards.

 

JEB

(4,748 posts)
10. Prosecution of these war criminals is step one
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 11:51 AM
Feb 2015

in our nation regaining ANY moral high ground. We are stuck at the bottom of the hill with all our weapons, munitions and delusions.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
11. Gee, didn't this president come into office on behalf of transparency? What happened???
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 12:03 PM
Feb 2015

It's more important to indict whistleblowers, I realize…. Doesn't matter where you live or who you are. How DARE we speak truth to power?

The Obama administration, which came into office on a wave of anti-war sentiment and promising the most transparent presidency in history, has not charged a single government official for war crimes stemming from the so-called “War on Terror.” Meanwhile, Obama has indicted seven whistleblowers on espionage charges, more than twice as many as all previous administrations combined.


K&R
 

kelliekat44

(7,759 posts)
15. Just finished watching "Kill the Messenger." Searched historical news articles about Gary Webb.
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 02:29 PM
Feb 2015

Suicide...not. And after reading this story I am convinced that the man was murdered directly or even indirectly..

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
20. He should quit being so sanctimonious
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 04:58 PM
Feb 2015

They were scared patriots who just tortured some folks. Look forward. Impeachment is off the table. You just want a pony.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
28. Hell, he is a whistle-blower, so how much credence can he have?
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:23 PM
Feb 2015

He is trying to tell us the Emperor has no clothes and we don't want to hear such things. "America, America uber alles"

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
31. He's no whistleblower....he DEFENDED the use of waterboarding.....
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:36 PM
Feb 2015

now, he's just trolling the Farthest Left. The book deal and lecture circuit should be next.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
37. The "Farthest Left?"
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 06:36 PM
Feb 2015

Is that the new meme where you go so left you touch right, as if there is such a phenomenon. No, no, better to stay in the "Right of Center-Right" where it's saaaaaaaaaaaaaafe.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
39. Nope..paraphrasing the TOS....
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 06:40 PM
Feb 2015

Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.


The Farthest Left......
 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
43. Well--this the first time on DU I've been accused of being far Left. I suppose that's an
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 07:24 PM
Feb 2015

improvement over "authoritarian." Right?

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
45. Why not just state plainly what you mean? I never alert on personal insults, because I think they
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 07:31 PM
Feb 2015

speak more to the person hurling them, than me.

Of course, torturers should be prosecuted. Thankfully---Kirakou was. Now that he's trolling, it's amusing to see who gobbles up the writings of a CIA operative who's gone off the rails.

OH----and who brazenly went on national television AND DEFENDED WATERBOARDING. There are better heroes. Jeebus.....there HAS to be.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
48. Yes--that a few, sensible DUers remember when this CIA agent brazenly went on national
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 07:36 PM
Feb 2015

television to defend waterboarding????

I don't want to bring facts into this.....but that is precisely what that man did.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
50. False equivalence
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 07:40 PM
Feb 2015

Just because he defended waterboarding does not mean those who tortured or authorized torture should be immune from prosecution. Losing the forest for the trees.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
51. Which is exactly what I wrote.....anyone we can get for torture, WE SHOULD.
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 07:49 PM
Feb 2015

We should prosecute.....

But here's the real horror of the Bush Administration, Ivan....we protected the torturers under the color of law. It's not just that we tortured....it's that we made it legally, 'okay.'

We enshrined torture in legal protections that as a criminal defense attorney, I wonder if we would ever get a conviction.

And that is even more horrible, isn't it? Because if we could put grinning ghouls like Kiriakou in prison for defending waterboarding, perhaps we could call it "Justice." Instead...we are left with piecemeal prosecutions, and blaming the wrong people for failure.

And bottom feeders, like Kiriakou, use torture for their own ends....twice.



BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
52. Well at least we agree on that.
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 07:57 PM
Feb 2015

I believe that these people should be prosecuted. They may have done nothing according to US law, which is a highly dubious "law" at best, but there must be some way to prove they broke international law. They should go after those in power first such as attorneys who drafted the Kafkaesque memos and tear apart their argument. Then go after the leaders. And then go after actual torturers. Remember, Nazis were not allowed to use the "following orders" defense.


And to be honest, the trial, a real trial that let the truth come out, would be preferable to the situation as it stands.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
53. The only place we disagree is where I think people like Kiriakou remain the pieces of shit
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 08:02 PM
Feb 2015

they were when they first defended waterboarding.

I don't disagree with a damn other thing you wrote.....just despair that Justice will ever happen.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
55. Then we don't disagree
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 08:18 PM
Feb 2015

I never said I liked him or supported him. If he defended waterboarding, then he is truly a piece of shit.

See, us Far Fringe Leftists aren't totally nuts.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
62. You don't have to apologize
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 12:45 AM
Feb 2015

though the gesture is truly appreciated. We found out we agree, though it took a while for us to state our issues so we could each understand. That is a lesson learned for me. I defensively snarked a lot which doesn't help. But at least we agree about justice, so that is a good thing.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
63. Link to where he defended waterboarding?
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 12:57 AM
Feb 2015

Originally he said it worked, which he later withdrew. Is that what you are talking about?

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
26. This thread is a great example of the divide in the Democratic Party as represented
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:16 PM
Feb 2015

by the DU microcosm. The crazy-assed Lefties (most likely the only ones to participate in this thread) respect whistle-blowers and don't go nationalistic ape-shit at the mention of RT (it has Russian in the name you know). The non-Left side of the Party will ignore this thread because they seem to feel that all whistle-blowers are trouble makers and should be treated like Ms. Chelsea Manning. That side of the Party would ban RT from DU if they had the chance. They like to use RT as justification for alerting. Apparently they would prefer Wolf Blitzer where "never a discouraging word is heard" about our country (Dog bless America).

So is it fair to say the non-Left Wing of the Democratic Party accept torture? No, not really. They will indicate that they are against torture, but are ok with not doing anything about it. "So some folks did some torture. Times were tough and they were really patriots." Frack that shit.

I bring this up because it will be important in our up coming brutal fight for our Party. The Crazy-Assed Lefties will be up against it, with the Oligarchy backed Corporate Wing of the Party.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
35. Amazing how much the party has changed.
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 06:27 PM
Feb 2015

Also amazing how the whistle blowers are subjected to more scrutiny than the corruption of the system and the people responsible.
Whistle blowers stir up the layers of muck that has been sitting at the bottom of the pond. The muck no one wants to see. it's easier to just blame the whistle blower and let it settle back down so we can pretend that it's not there.
If we continue to ignore whistle blower's and their repeated warnings inevitably the pond reaches the saturation point.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
46. 'Amazing how the whistle blowers are subjected to more scrutiny than the corruption of the system...
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 07:32 PM
Feb 2015

...and the people responsible."

Concise. Precise. Exact. The Point.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
60. Thank you Octafish
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 10:05 PM
Feb 2015

Because we're not reflected in the MSM doesn't mean there isn't growing number of us feeling pretty disenchanted. I don't know where either party thinks their future supporters are coming from, the 18 to 30 crowd have pretty much stopped voting. I guess they're fine with that as long as there's an unlimited flow of money from Wall Street and the global corporations.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
64. In other words,
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 09:16 AM
Feb 2015

the left are screwn. I wonder if we will ever get the party back on track. I wonder if it is even possible.

Response to Octafish (Original post)

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
67. A National Press Corpse
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 08:28 PM
Feb 2015


What integrity?



Secrecy, Surveillance and Censorship

War by Media and the Triumph of Propaganda

by JOHN PILGER
CounterPunch, Dec. 5-7, 2014

Why has so much journalism succumbed to propaganda? Why are censorship and distortion standard practice? Why is the BBC so often a mouthpiece of rapacious power? Why do the New York Times and the Washington Post deceive their readers?

Why are young journalists not taught to understand media agendas and to challenge the high claims and low purpose of fake objectivity? And why are they not taught that the essence of so much of what’s called the mainstream media is not information, but power?

These are urgent questions. The world is facing the prospect of major war, perhaps nuclear war – with the United States clearly determined to isolate and provoke Russia and eventually China. This truth is being turned upside down and inside out by journalists, including those who promoted the lies that led to the bloodbath in Iraq in 2003.

The times we live in are so dangerous and so distorted in public perception that propaganda is no longer, as Edward Bernays called it, an “invisible government”. It is the government. It rules directly without fear of contradiction and its principal aim is the conquest of us: our sense of the world, our ability to separate truth from lies.

SNIP...

The most effective propaganda is found not in the Sun or on Fox News – but beneath a liberal halo. When the New York Times published claims that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, its fake evidence was believed, because it wasn’t Fox News; it was the New York Times.

CONTINUED...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/12/05/war-by-media-and-the-triumph-of-propaganda/



It wasn't integrity killed Journalism. It was rigor mortis.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
42. Go look this guy up on...
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 07:17 PM
Feb 2015

... DemocracyNow from last week. Amy had a great interview with him. Congenial likable fellow, and he held nothing back. Did you see it Octafish?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
49. This country has no moral authority and will never have any until the torturers are brought to
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 07:40 PM
Feb 2015

justice. Sickening that not one of them has been even prosecuted so far. But the Whistle Blowers? Unbelievable what we are expected to swallow AND keep on supporting.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
57. Judge Laurence Silberman compared a journalist who said, 'Bush lied America into war' with NAZIs.
Tue Feb 17, 2015, 09:11 PM
Feb 2015
Judge Laurence Silberman is the GOP guy who met with the Iranians at L'Enfant Plaza Hotel in 1980; overturned Oliver North's conviction on appeal; and helped foist Clarence Thomas and John Yoo into court.



Federal Appeals Judge Compares People Who Say Bush Lied To Rise Of Nazis

A federal appeals judge wrote in a column published on Sunday that people who accuse former President George W. Bush of lying about the Iraq War are peddling myths like those that led to the rise of Hitler.

Laurence H. Silberman, a federal appellate judge appointed by President Ronald Reagan, wrote in the Wall Street Journal that the idea the Bush administration "lied us into Iraq" has gone from "antiwar slogan to journalistic fact."

"It is one thing to assert, then or now, that the Iraq war was ill-advised," he wrote. "It is quite another to make the horrendous charge that President Bush lied to or deceived the American people about the threat from Saddam."

After re-litigating the case for invading Iraq, Silberman wrote that the charge could have "potentially dire consequences."

"I am reminded of a similarly baseless accusation that helped the Nazis come to power in Germany: that the German army had not really lost World War I, that the soldiers instead had been 'stabbed in the back' by politicians," he wrote.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/laurence-silberman-bush-lied-nazis



Silberman was instrumental in about every major event turning America rightward and backward over the past 35 years, at least. Of course, he and the cursed Federalist Society need be brought to light, then justice.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
65. That's what Judge Silberman said, just the other day.
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 08:03 PM
Feb 2015

And any journalist who says, "Bush lied America into war" is the same reason why Germany went NAZI. Talk about calling your kettle Karl Rove.



The Dangerous Lie That ‘Bush Lied’

Some journalists still peddle this canard as if it were fact. This is defamatory and could end up hurting the country.

By LAURENCE H. SILBERMAN
Wall Street Journal, Opinion, Sunday, Feb. 8, 2015

In recent weeks, I have heard former Associated Press reporter Ron Fournier on Fox News twice asserting, quite offhandedly, that President George W. Bush “lied us into war in Iraq.”

I found this shocking....

SNIP…

The charge is dangerous because it can take on the air of historical fact—with potentially dire consequences. I am reminded of a similarly baseless accusation that helped the Nazis come to power in Germany: that the German army had not really lost World War I, that the soldiers instead had been “stabbed in the back” by politicians.

Sometime in the future, perhaps long after most of us are gone, an American president may need to rely publicly on intelligence reports to support military action. It would be tragic if, at such a critical moment, the president’s credibility were undermined by memories of a false charge peddled by the likes of Ron Fournier.

Mr. Silberman, a senior federal judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, was co-chairman of the Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/laurence-h-silberman-the-dangerous-lie-that-bush-lied-1423437950



Whatever happened to free speech, anyway, blkmusclmachine? And how come those war criminals who lied America into war walk free?

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
66. That's just what Presidential Advisor Cass Sunstein said the other day.
Wed Feb 18, 2015, 08:07 PM
Feb 2015

It's what he's all about, government conspiracies being, at root, like banal and all.



Cass Sunstein’s Conspiracy Theory: The Tuskegee Experiment

The Classic Liberal, 2010-01-20

Obama Administration Czar Cass Sunstein wrote a paper in 2008 stating that the government should respond to conspiracy theories via "cognitive infiltration of extremist groups."

In other words, Cass Sunstein advocates thought and speech control.

SNIP...

The Tuskegee Syphilis Study

Using Humans as Laboratory Rats


For 40 years ... from 1932 to 1972, the U.S. government conducted an experiment on 399 black men with syphilis. These men were mostly illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama.

The government never told them what disease they were actually suffering from, nor of its seriousness. Instead, the government told them they were being treated for "bad blood." The government and its doctors never had any intention of curing them.

These (black) men were not only given false information about their disease, but were inflicted with dangerous "treatments" as well - while genuine treatment was intentionally withheld. In 1947 for example, when penicillin became the drug of choice for sufferers of syphilis, the United States Public Health Service (PHS) refused to offer it to the 399 "subjects" of their study.

CONTINUED...

http://the-classic-liberal.com/cass-sunstein%E2%80%99s-conspiracy-theory-tuskegee-experiment/



What's telling, regarding Don Siegelman, is Dr. Professor Sunstein's evident concern for the Bush Crime Family:



Government Nanny Censoring "Conspiracy Theories" is Also Responsible for Letting Bush Era Torture and Spying Conspiracies Go Unpunished

Washington's Blog
Thursday, October 7, 2010

Cass Sunstein was the main adviser to the Obama White House advocating against prosecuting Bush administration officials for torture, illegal spying, and other crimes. As constitutional expert professor Jonathan Turley wrote in 2008:

Close Obama adviser (and University of Chicago Law Professor) Cass Sunstein recently rejected the notion of prosecuting Bush officials for crimes such as torture and unlawful surveillance.

*****

The exchange with Sunstein was detailed by The Nation’s Ari Melber. Melber wrote that Sunstein rejected any such prosecution:

Prosecuting government officials risks a “cycle” of criminalizing public service, argued, and Democrats should avoid replicating retributive efforts like the impeachment of President Clinton — or even the “slight appearance” of it.


Sunstein did add that “egregious crimes should not be ignored,” according to one site, click here. It is entirely unclear what that means since some of us take the views that any crimes committed by the government are egregious. Those non-egregious crimes are precisely what worries many lawyers who were looking for a simple commitment to prosecute crimes committed by the government.


SNIP...

So Sunstein isn't calling right now for proposals (1) and (2) -- having Government "ban conspiracy theorizing" or "impose some kind of tax on those who" do it -- but he says "each will have a place under imaginable conditions." I'd love to know the "conditions" under which the government-enforced banning of conspiracy theories or the imposition of taxes on those who advocate them will "have a place." That would require, at a bare minimum, a repeal of the First Amendment. Anyone who believes this should, for that reason alone, be barred from any meaningful government position.

CONTINUED w links...

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2010/10/main-obama-adviser-blocking-prosecution.html



[font color="green"]Prosecuting government officials risks a “cycle” of criminalizing public service, (Sunstein) argued, and Democrats should avoid replicating retributive efforts like the impeachment of President Clinton — or even the “slight appearance” of it. [/font color]
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