Russia's former largest foreign investor: Putin is worth $200 billion

[applegrove]

Russia's former largest foreign investor: Putin is worth $200 billion

by Michael B. Kelley at Business Insider

http://www.businessinsider.com/russias-former-largest-foreign-investor-putin-is-worth-200-billion-2015-2

"SNIP................


Hedge fund manager Bill Browder, once the largest foreign investor in Russia, estimates Russian President Vladimir Putin's wealth at $200 billion — which would make him by far the richest man in the world.

When asked to estimate his net worth by Fareed Zakaria of CNN, Browder said: "I believe that it is $200 billion.

"After 14 years in power of Russia, and the amount of money that the country has made, and the amount of money that hasn't been spent on schools and roads and hospitals and so on — all that money is in property, Swiss bank accounts, shares, [and] hedge funds managed for Putin and his cronies."

......


Putin, a former KGB lieutenant colonel, became Russian prime minister in August 1999 and president in May 2000.




................SNIP"

[Agnosticsherbet]

1. Putin is the .000001%

[Cha]

2. WhereTF did ol putin get all that $$$$$$$?!

[On the Road]

5. Many Plutocrats in Russia

made their fortunes by siphoning money off from the sale of state-owned natural resources like oil, gas, and timber, or from the ongoing operations of those still held by the government. It's hard to think they have nothing to do with Putin's wealth.

[Cha]

92. Since I have found out.. thank you, On the Road

[freshwest]

12. Apparently from looting the Commons! LOLOLOL!!!

[11 Bravo]

87. He saved a TON of money when he stopped buying shirts.

[NuclearDem]

3. It is good to be the dictator.

[msongs]

4. how much is all of ukraine worth when he adds it to his portfolio? nt

[SidDithers]

6. Uh oh. The Putin boot-lickers aren't gonna like that info coming out...nt

Sid

[Fred Sanders]

7. Came up with a new preemptive insult for those not sharing your opinions, how original.

Maybe Putin has 200...Gazillion dollars?

[applegrove]

8. Are you a Putin fan?

[GGJohn]

64. Fred, you have zero room to lecture others on slogans. eom.

[freshwest]

13. The Russian version of the Koch brothers, but twice as rich! I'm ROFLMAO here!

[FSogol]

22. 200 billion will pay for a lot of boot-licking.

[Tarheel_Dem]

25. Why, I could buy everybody tons of hearts with that kinda dough.

[JonLP24]

58. It is usually identifying the billionaires and corruption in the Ukrainian government

that lead to "boot-licker" accusations.

Who here has really identified with Putin?

[Tarheel_Dem]

9. Saw an interview with this guy on Fareed Zakaria, and he definitely has inside knowledge. nt

[freshwest]

14. But what about the People, folks? Oh, yeah, let 'em eat cake!

He beat the Koch brothers already. This is EPIC!

[Tarheel_Dem]

26. Wonder how soon these guys will show up to tell us how wrong we all are?

TYT/Buzzfeed: "Russia's Online Troll Army Is Huge, Hilarious & Already Everywhere "

"Moscow is financing legions of pro-Russia Internet commenters. But how much do they matter?"

"Russia's campaign to shape international opinion around its invasion of Ukraine has extended to recruiting and training a new cadre of online trolls that have been deployed to spread the Kremlin's message on the comments section of top American websites.

[freshwest]

47. That one is still hilarious! Don't worry, they're here:

I see them!

[freshwest]

48. BTW, have you seen this Frontline piece on where the money came from?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017245300#op

I saw this a while back and it was scary and depressing stuff. It takes a while if you watch all the parts, but worth the time to see how oligarchs create wealth, fast.

[Tarheel_Dem]

49. I heard about the Frontline piece, and I've been meaning to make time to watch. Thanks.

[Duckhunter935]

52. Thanks, bookmarked for later

[Historic NY]

85. Yup "They're Here"

[ND-Dem]

24. he doesn't even speak russian.

[ND-Dem]

10. oh, now that is ironic. bill browder, hedge fund manager, is the grandson of earl browder. head of

cpusa.

[freshwest]

15. The Communist Party has hedge fund managers? Or not? OMG! Who's kidding who with all the ideology?

[ND-Dem]

17. bill browder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Browder

Bill Browder is the grandson of Earl Browder, the former leader of the Communist Party USA,[2] and the son of Felix Browder, the noted mathematician.

[freshwest]

18. Oh, well, nothing to do with the CP. Thanks for clearing that up. What an interesting life. n/t

[ND-Dem]

20. i'm not sure you're clear yet. the hedge fund guy is the *grandson* of the CP leader.

he never was a communist.

more importantly, he doesn't speak Russian and has no insider knowledge about putin's net worth. he's just a guy who went to Russia to make money. likely with an intelligence connection of some kind.

With an economics degree from the University of Chicago, an MBA from Stanford and a few years of banking in London, he found his way to Moscow just as the country’s Soviet-era enterprises were being privatized. As he openly acknowledges, Browder speaks no Russian and knew little about the country...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2015/02/13/29443218-abf2-11e4-9c91-e9d2f9fde644_story.html

[freshwest]

21. Hedge fund guys aren't communists. I thought I didn't need a sarcasm icon.

Have a nice week.

[ND-Dem]

23. i never said they were, & it's self-evident. which is why i assumed you were confused.

you have a nice week too.

[TBF]

76. John Bachtell is the chairman of CPUSA

John Bachtell (born March 26, 1956) is an American activist, trade unionist, and community organizer who has served as the Chairman of the National Committee of the Communist Party USA since its 30th National Convention in 2014.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bachtell

[ND-Dem]

79. and bill browder, hedge fund guy, is the grandson of earl browder, former cpusa leader,

which is what I said in my post 10, which you are responding to:

10. oh, now that is ironic. bill browder, hedge fund manager, is the grandson of earl browder. head of cpusa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Browder

you're the only one who said anything about the current cpusa chair.

Bill browder is the guy in the OP, and that's why we're talking about him. hope that clears it up for you. thanks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026231601

[TBF]

81. Bill Browder makes a wild guess

and you're accepting it as fact. I have no love for Putin but why this big outburst?

[ND-Dem]

83. down the rabbit hole. the op accepts portrays it as fact, not me; as you know, i think. byee.

[TBF]

82. He left the chairmanship in 1945 ~

and why all the red-baiting? Seriously.

[freshwest]

11. BWAHAHA! The defender of socialism and populist hero! Richer than the Koch brothers!

No wonder the GOP, and the rest of them dance to his fiddle. Last figure I'd seen was $40B. This is hysterical!

[ND-Dem]

16. and the guy that made the guesstimate is the grandson of the head of the US Communist Party.

And a hedge fund guy to boot.

Oh, the exquisite irony.

And what's even funnier is the folks here acting like this is gospel.

[freshwest]

19. Definitely not a Communist anymore though. Apparently a genius by his resume, though.

There was a thread about the guy who got beaten to death on DU that is revealed in the Browder link, it was pretty awful stuff.

[blm]

27. Even funnier - those positioning themselves to defend Putin's self-enrichment

when so many in that nation are struggling.

[ND-Dem]

29. doing lots better than they were under "our" guy yeltsin.

but yeah, the transition to capitalism and democracy ruined a lot of people's lives and killed a lot of people too.

[SidDithers]

33. I can't wait for your "Smiling Russians" thread...

'cause the "Smiling North Koreans" thread was comedy gold.

Sid

[ND-Dem]

34. if you're canadian, why are you here every day?

[SidDithers]

38. You're a homophobe that was banned for being an homophobe...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=282775&sub=trans

Why are you back?

Please, deny it.

Sid

[ND-Dem]

44. If you're canadian, why are you here every day?

[Cha]

50. And, why shouldn't he be here anytime he wants? We are an international board. We don't exclude

just because someone is from a different country.

Only if they are rw a$$holes, homophobes, or racists.

[SidDithers]

60. See #38...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023453360

Sid

[Tarheel_Dem]

86. Daayyyuummm Sidney, you're good. You spot 'em before anyone. Good on ya.

[SidDithers]

89. I don't like zombies. I especially don't like zombies that were banned for being homophobes...

Sid

[Tarheel_Dem]

90. Ditto!

[snooper2]

62. didn't your mom ever tell you not to answer a question with a question?

[GGJohn]

65. Why shouldn't he be here?

This is a worldwide chat board, open to all who obey the TOS.

[SidDithers]

73. Kick...nt

Sid

[SidDithers]

74. Kick...nt

Sid

[SidDithers]

75. Kick...nt

Sid

[TBF]

84. Ah, finally something that makes sense in this

entire thread. I thought I was losing my mind.

[SidDithers]

93. Kick...nt

Sid

[Tarheel_Dem]

91. He's here to help counter all the damn Russian propaganda. It's a global undertaking.

Proof that the whole world is watching, not just Canada, which you seem to have a problem with.

[Cha]

51. Yes, poor poor Putin.. it's the WEST's Fault he so filthy Rich!!!!!111111

Nothing is Ever Putin's fault according to the usual suspects.

[blm]

61. Ya got that SO right, Z!!!!

.

[Cha]

70. :)

[LanternWaste]

30. What then, is the accurate figure, and on what objective figure is that measured from?

"And what's even funnier is the folks here acting like this is gospel..."

What then, is the accurate figure, and on what objective figure is that measured from?

[ND-Dem]

32. why would anyone expect there to be an accurate figure? if putin is indeed enriching

himself and stashing away the gains (I guess for his old age?), why would anyone think he'd do it in a public enough manner that someone like browder, who self-admittedly doesn't speak Russian and doesn't know the culture or country, would be able to track down the data?

[LanternWaste]

35. If one implies a figure is inaccurate, one shouldn't be surprised when an accurate figure is request

If one implies a figure is inaccurate, one shouldn't be surprised when an accurate figure is requested in its place to validate the unsourced disclaimer...

[ND-Dem]

36. Is that what I "implied"? That the figure was inaccurate, but an accurate figure existed?

all that from this:

"And what's even funnier is the folks here acting like this is gospel..."

[LanternWaste]

39. Many people find it convenient to hide behind implication.

Many people find it convenient to hide behind implication. No doubt, you can illustrate the fallacy of the original figure given-- else we're forced to believe you're merely making things up.

You may however, wish to look up the definition of the word-- you appear somewhat hysterically.

Now I know better than to request objective information from another poster. Win/win for both of us.





(insert something bizarre and tangential below to validate the non-sequiters of yours to date, and continue with the hi-jacking...)

[ND-Dem]

41. well here, let me ask you for numbers that don't exist. On what did data did Mr. Browder base

his estimate, and how did he have access to it?

I want specific answers, please. And quickly.

[LanternWaste]

42. Hence, you are unable to refute or counter his number...

Hence, you are unable to refute or counter his original number, and the exception you take to it is merely faith-based, at best.

It leads me to believe your position is irrational as it is substantiated on gossip rather than sourcing. When you are able to counter the figures he presented with objective sources, I will allow you credibility. Until then, you are little more than an irrational person screaming.

[ND-Dem]

43. Until you provide me the data Mr. Browder's estimate is based on, it's just "faith-based" as well.

Still waiting.

[11 Bravo]

88. I would provide you with the specific answers you desire, but ...

I visited Canada once, so my response would doubtless be suspect.

[BainsBane]

54. What would be funny if it weren't so repulsive

Is that people who trash the President and Democratic candidates for being "corporatist" will brook no criticsm of a thieving, murderous, homophobic autocrat. They justify Russian imperial expansionism and cheerlead on Putin's war on the Ukraine.
Naturally people engage in ad hominen attacks, just as they did with the Frontline piece, which is very well substantiated by Russian police investigations into Putin's graft, investigations that have led to exile, imprisonment or murder of those who carried them out. Indeed, it is hard to estimate wealth accued through theft, but there is a partial documentary trail. You and others here will ingore it because what is most important is that a right-wing autocrat never be subject to criticism. You all will dismiss the evidence because the truth is you don't care how much Putin has stolen or who he has killed. In fact, people seem to much prefer him over the Democratic Party, whom people not only criticize but trash entirely. Puitin, however, must under no circumstances be spoken ill about.

A hedge fund guy vs. a far right-wing authoritarian murderer, ex. KGB who helped keep control over the GDR, the most complete police state in history. Ex-head of the FSB and implicated in the planting of a bombing of a Moscow apartment buiilding he then blamed on Chechnyan terrorists in order to justify war on the region. That you dismiss a source for the crime of managing a hedge fund in order to protect a homophobic murderer who has stolen huge amounts of money from the public suggests some disturbing values.

No wonder this country has moved so far to the right when those who pretend to be on the left spend their energies defending right-wing authoritarians and stumping for his war.

[ND-Dem]

55. I don't mean to be rude, but recent US heads of state are responsible for killing a lot more people

than Putin. That isn't a defense of Putin, it's a statement of fact. Unless you think Putin has been responsible for the death of millions since about 2001.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War#mediaviewer/File:Iraq_Body_Count_project_flags.png


The red flags are americans; the white flags are Iraqis. They're all equally dead.

[BainsBane]

63. And I have been highly critical of that war

and did all I could to prevent and end it. Putin has not only killed through war but had his political rivals and journalists killed. Why then do you refuse to consider criticism of Putin for the very imperialism you oppose in the US? If imperialism and war are bad, why do you defend them for Putin?

You must think I'm an idiot not to know huge numbers of people died in Iraq. That is in no way a response to any point I made but more distraction designed to detract from the issues raised. Your continued efforts at distraction only show your own refusal or inability to engage with the subject matter.

[ND-Dem]

71. well tell me which globe-spanning wars putin's been involved in during the same time period.

I just don't get why the 'issues raised' are focused on so relentlessly to the exclusion of 'issues' that affect americans a lot more directly.

[JonLP24]

59. When it comes to myself

and you describe a position taken as plural. Ukraine's government outranks Russia on the most corrupt list. Right-wing authoritarians are in charge. Huge amounts of amounts of money are stolen from the public -- check.

Ukraine conceded Crimea like right away so that war is over. This is a war between Kiev & Eastern Ukraine.

Ukraine coal miners demand gov't pay wages
http://english.cntv.cn/2015/01/29/VIDE1422514682760418.shtml

Coal in Ukraine is one of the country's biggest industries, but it is dangerous for its miners.

Coal mining is one of the biggest industries in Eastern Ukraine. The country's coal industry employs about 500,000 people.[5] More than 90 percent of Ukraine’s coal production comes from the Donets Basin ("Donbass&quot region.[1]

Corruption and illegal mining

Ukrainian mines are sometimes run by mafia-like organizations. Often, these organizations derive large incomes from the mines that belong to the government. As a result, underfinancing causes many employees to have to wait to receive their monthly salary for weeks or even months. Additionally, a lack of financing influences the condition of many coal mines. Old mines don’t receive the necessary financial aid, therefore they are not being renovated or remodeled annually. All these problems together with other challenges have resulted in "gradually declining production capacity and a loss of global market share".[13]

In the Donets Basin there are many extremely dangerous illegal mines.[2][14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_in_Ukraine

Ukraine fails miserable in all the the corruption categories.
http://reports.weforum.org/global-competitiveness-report-2014-2015/economies/#economy=UKR
Every single political map of Ukraine looks the same.

Protestors killedq in Ukraine
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/02/20/live-video-and-social-media-updates-from-kiev/

[BainsBane]

66. I really don't care if the Ukrainian government is corrupt

that is hardly an excuse for an invasion that took place right after one of those corrupt leaders fled into Russia.
You apparently have no problem with countries taking over and oppressing peoples. Russia has dominated and controlled the Ukraine since the 17th century, except for the period between the Russian revolution and the creation of the Soviet block and then another period since the fall of the USSR. You give Putin's excuses for why Ukrainians are unfit, inferior, and why they should be subject to imperial control. I hope you are proud for standing up for might and oppression of foreign peoples. You point to events since the Russian annexation of Crimea, events that Russia helped create, as an excuse for their imperial endeavors. What you call a war between East and Western Ukraine was unleashed, financed, and instigated by Russia. Not only through Russian arms but direct payments to pro-Russian fighters (for this I cite the Frontline program on Syria and the Ukraine).

I believe in certain principles. I believe that empire and colonialism are wrong, whether by the US or Russia. I do not make excuses for another country when it engages the kind of activity I oppose by my own government. You instead promote and defend empire and provide excuses for why Russians deserve to rule a people you see as inferior. I do not see certain peoples as inferior and unfit to govern themselves. In fact, I find such positions morally reprehensible and completely and absolutely hypocritical when made by people who claim to oppose war and empire by the US. There are a lot of ways one might describe such positions, but leftist and liberal are not among them.

[JonLP24]

69. Instigated by Russia?

Look at the political maps in Ukraine going back years. You're talking about issues that have long been politicized, it is the Right-Wing Nationalist side of Ukraine that treats Ukraine citizens as inferior.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_%28political_party%29

No question Russia has supplied aid to one side which several countries have done in Syria including both Russia & US. Kiev is the most pro-Western part of Ukraine & the Eastern side largely isn't so naturally the US backs one side & Russia the other.

[TBF]

77. Please stop repeating this BS - Bachtell is the chairman of CPUSA

Your propaganda sounds like it is coming straight out of "the Blaze" - a rag started by Glenn Beck. If you've got another source I'd love to see it.

[ND-Dem]

80. i think you're confused.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6276931

[Comrade Grumpy]

28. I believe Putin is worth $1.50. And I have as much evidence as Bill Browder.

[Fred Sanders]

67. I say he is worth several thousand rubles. I said so, so it must be true and must be proven wrong.

[OverseaVisitor]

37. Well Bill Browder

Sure make lots of money according to wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Browder

est 2006 125 to 250 million pounds

2007 est 125 to 150 million pound..... all in Russia.

[Mimosa]

45. Good for Putin, if true

Putin's still below America's super rich in assets.

Browder's interesting. I wonder why Chicago was headquarters for Communist Party USA.

[ND-Dem]

53. I think he's interesting too. There were always rumors that grandpa became a US government

asset later in life.

That would explain why the kids got good educations and the grandkid got to manage a hedge fund.

Typically CP members and functionaries didn't make much money -- unless they were intelligence assets. Typically they died in poverty.

[Orsino]

46. Why be governed by a bunch of lackeys who suck up to the billionaires?

Cut out the middlemen!

[snappyturtle]

56. Sounds like this Browder person may have some

sour grapes issues. Let's see...an American citizen who gives up his citizenship seemingly to avoid taxes...gets into trouble in Russia for owning shares in Gasprom and although wealthy, obviously is jealous of a man he once supported...Putin. Why anyone would believe a hedge fund manager's (LOL) estimate of Putin's wealth is beyond me.

[Fred Sanders]

68. Some folks will believe anything, any means to the end....sad, really. Senator Inhofe comes to mind.....

[SidDithers]

57. Kick...nt

Sid

[TBF]

78. I believe unicorns fly ... nt

[BainsBane]

94. They actually know the banks his money is in

They are all Western. That is why the Obama administration targeted sanctions at Putin and his cronies, because they wield the power and an enormous percentage of Russia's wealth. There are also reports from Russian police investigations from when Putin was Deputy Mayor of St. Petersburg in the early 90s that gives estimates of how much we took from the sale of public property. While estimates of his wealth vary, he is one of the richest men in the world.

[TBF]

95. Who is "they"?

Any cites to back up these guesses?