Being an atheist had nothing to do with it. Being Muslim did

[WestCoastLib]

Muslims have been vilified to an outrageous degree over the past 15 years in this country and you see the evidence in people's attitudes everywhere, including many on this very "progressive" message board who have said horrible things about them.

People (read: Americans) have been urged to hate and fear Muslims and the Islam religion.

This person's supposed Atheism has nothing to do with his crime, though the victim's religion almost certainly did. He hated and wanted to kill Muslims because George Bush, CNN, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, Bill Mahr, CNN, & Democratic Undeground told him they all deserve it.

[Fred Sanders]

1. Egged on to hate - by a doom and gloom fear mongering media now desperately hiding in a parking spot

[TexasProgresive]

2. I think the reason this is an issue with some people is

Theists "have been vilified" by a few atheists placing most if not all the violence in the world at the feet of religion. This is just my opinion which like most such is maybe not worth much. Or as we say in Texas, "Opinions are like assholes, everybodies got one and they all stink."

[WestCoastLib]

3. That's because theists often claim to do things "in the name of their religion"

Whether it be refusing to bake cakes for Gay weddings, bombing abortion clinics, or other awful minded things, Theists claim to do many of these things "because of their religious beliefs", from their own mouths.

There is nothing that remotely suggests this person was set to murder religious people because his lack of faith commanded him to.

He clearly hated Muslims. In this country that hate of Muslims has absolutely zero to do with being an Atheist. In fact, while there is certainly no "doctrine" that an Atheist needs to follow, I would imagine that you will find a stronger support for American Muslims among the American Atheist population than the American Christian population. This being due to the fact that, in general, Atheists would like to see less of a Christian stranglehold on the country.

[TexasProgresive]

4. People like to rationalize their reason for their actions they know are wrong.

That is unless they are sociopaths, those just don't need to rationalize because they don't believe anything they do is wrong.

I put this down to the human condition, it is not anything to do with religion or its lack. A few are good, a few are evil and the rest of us are so-so.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

5. "He clearly hated Muslims."

He clearly hated people with religious convictions.

[WestCoastLib]

6. No more so than most people in this country

If you are referring to Islamic religious convictions

[Nuclear Unicorn]

7. Most people are not gunning down Muslims. Crimeny.

[GummyBearz]

8. I read that

he hated people who parked in his parking spot even more

[Nuclear Unicorn]

9. The parking spot was just an excuse he ginned-up in his mind.

He wanted to hurt people, he needed a pretext. It was the wanting-to-hurt-people part that is the beginning and end of the entire matter. We all have people that make us angry, even furious, but we don't want to hurt anyone.

[GummyBearz]

11. He was an angry man

Did he want to hurt muslims in particular? I dunno... his facebook posts seem to say he dislikes any one who belongs to a religion. The rush to call it a terrorist attack was obviously foolish, and the rush to call it a hate crime may or may not be true at this point. Best to hear some evidence and then decide what it was. If it can be shown it was really a hate crime, then the laws are in place to punish him accordingly.


But a second hand account of a phone conversation between a victim's father and the victim, in which the father says the victim said "i dont think he likes how we look" isnt proof of a hate crime.

Unless our court system is so screwed up that a "he said that-she said that-I think HE thinks this-" testimony is actual proof of the shooters motives.

[uponit7771]

15. Yes it was pretext, it was a VISITOR parking spot and wasn't his. After finding that out I lean towa

...towards terrorism and hate crime.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. Currently there is little evidence to go on to reach any conclusion other than

he had been very upset with all sorts of people over the parking situation for months.

Was he also acting on anti-muslim sentiments? probably yes, but so far nobody has come up with concrete evidence of that. In fact his facebook scrapings are all statements expressing belief in tolerance, including his "anti-theism" remarks, which included a specific statement of uncategorical tolerance for those with religious beliefs.

[uponit7771]

13. There was no "parking dispute" it was a visitors parking space that wasn't his. The media is being

...very disenginious by calling it a parking dispute when the shooter didn't have rights to the parking spot

Also, the shooter didn't treat the guy like an ahole until the guy he brought his Muslim bride home with the head dress.


That and the shooters FB postings ... sounds like a hate crime to me with a VISITOR parking space being used as a pretext to kill 3 people execution style with shots to the head and NO struggle (either sleep on on their knees)

[Warren Stupidity]

23. you need to do a bit more research.

there was an ongoing parking dispute between this nutjob and everyone else in the area. He had confrontations with many people, many of them neighbors as were the people he killed. He was obsessed with the parking situation. He may also have been a bigot, there just isn't any evidence of that bigotry so far, although certainly the fact that when he finally exploded he acted out against these three muslims does point in that direction. An explicit statement of bigotry would help make that case. Absent that evidence it is unlikely that a hate crime charge can be added to the murder charges.

To be clear - I think it is entirely likely that he was bigoted against muslims, but the primary motivation here, as the police have stated, appears to be his obsession with the parking situation in the apartment complex.

[uponit7771]

12. Exactly!! well except DU.... I don't think we're in the same company as Bush et al

[The2ndWheel]

14. Basically everything contributed except one thing?

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. There's a conflation going on that is causing a lot of misunderstanding.

Atheism and anti-theism are not the same thing and one does not presume the other.

Atheism does not compel someone to murder. It's simply not believing in God.

Anti-theism, an oppositional stance to theistic belief, could have the potential I suppose. But it too would probably need something else to push the individual to the point where he/she vilifies or dehumanizes people of faith rather than remaining a critical opinion of religion. Anti-theism tends to want to rescue theists from their perceived delusion by argumentation, not kill them for it.

I don't think any of us are in a position at this point to say what precise combination of motivations inspired this heinous triple murder. But it is safe to say he didn't kill them because he's atheist.

[Nye Bevan]

16. "Anti-theism" of the militant kind

[Rex]

17. So what do they post about at Democratic Undeground? Boxers and panties?

I guess underpants are considered taboo?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. i tend to agree.

[LanternWaste]

20. What *specifically* leads you to believe his belief system had nothing to do with it?

"This person's supposed Atheism has nothing to do with his crime..."

What *specifically* leads you to believe his belief system had nothing to do with it?

[sadoldgirl]

21. It is mostly impossible to

identify Christians by their clothes. However the head scarf seems to indicate
a religious belief . Besides the family had immigrated as far as I know.

I thought that Furgeson proved that it is extremely difficult for the
Justice department to prosecute, but I wish them the best in their efforts.