Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 09:03 PM Feb 2015

NOW Third Way is admitting NAFTA was a BAD deal for US workers...but the TPP will be GOOD.

You can't make this stuff up...

An admission from trade-deal supporters: NAFTA hurt some workers
2/12/2015


The Democratic think tank Third Way has long defended centrist, pro-business policies -- including the North American Free Trade Agreement, which allowed many U.S. companies to ship jobs to Mexico.

Now, in arguing for a new trade pact being negotiated by the Obama administration, Third Way is making what appears to be a surprising concession about NAFTA, the most famous trade deal in American history: It hurt some blue-collar workers, the group says.

...Kessler and Horwitz say that NAFTA, the Clinton-era agreement which expanded trade with Canada and Mexico, "fell short" in its promises to middle-class American workers. But they argue that more recent agreements, such as those with Panama (2012) and Singapore (2004), have proven much better for workers and the U.S. economy as a whole, improving the United States' balance of trade in goods with 13 of 17 countries.

...Progressive groups that have clashed with Third Way over trade -- and which oppose the TPP -- criticized the analysis, arguing that it’s too simplistic just to tally up each trade agreement as a win or a loss.

The magnitude of losses from NAFTA far outweigh gains from the later trade agreements, they say, and TPP has the potential to do the same, especially if it doesn’t include a way to prevent trading partners from subsidizing their industries by cheapening their currency. That has long been the worry with China.

Public Citizen’s Lori Wallach said the TPP most closely resembles the Korea framework. "The Korea FTA actually has the improved labor and environmental standards, and we are getting slammed by a massive new trade deficit since that one went into effect,” she said.

The AFL-CIO’s Celeste Drake argues that Third Way isn’t looking at the distribution of the gains from trade, which tend to favor business owners and shareholders, rather than workers....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/12/now-even-supporters-of-new-trade-deals-are-bashing-nafta/


I guess those posters here trying to sell us on the myth that NAFTA was a good thing (when we KNOW it wasn't/isn't because we're still hurting from it) will have to adjust their talking points...

bob & weave...spin baby spin!


28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
NOW Third Way is admitting NAFTA was a BAD deal for US workers...but the TPP will be GOOD. (Original Post) RiverLover Feb 2015 OP
Want to lay any bet on that? marym625 Feb 2015 #1
Both suck. Really sad. aquart Feb 2015 #2
Yep. RiverLover Feb 2015 #3
Ocean front lots for sale JEB Feb 2015 #4
We're sorry we though a punch to the nuts would be good. Glassunion Feb 2015 #5
That might be funny if it wasn't so demented and sad. /nt AtomicKitten Feb 2015 #6
It didn't take a brain surgeon nationalize the fed Feb 2015 #7
That's a scary hotel. Who needs Norman Bates? RiverLover Feb 2015 #9
To me they are Neo liberals and no different arthritisR_US Feb 2015 #8
One group with lipstick. RiverLover Feb 2015 #10
That's sure how I see it. nt arthritisR_US Feb 2015 #11
"hey, we can admit NAFTA stank out loud--but that just means our endorsement of TPP is objective!" MisterP Feb 2015 #12
You nailed it here, ^^^this is how they want frame it for credibility as they try to persuade us RiverLover Feb 2015 #20
I guess we can react to this two ways Jack Rabbit Feb 2015 #13
Just what we need Mnpaul Feb 2015 #14
The DU posters will say aspirant Feb 2015 #15
Snort! Scuba Feb 2015 #18
LOL! RiverLover Feb 2015 #21
yep 840high Feb 2015 #27
This vaguely reminds of stories I've heard before. Trillo Feb 2015 #16
It reminds me, not vaguely, but in vivid detail Populist_Prole Feb 2015 #17
Lucy: I won't take the ball away at the last second this time. nt bemildred Feb 2015 #19
This OP has now been up for over ten hours Fumesucker Feb 2015 #22
A new thread will appear MannyGoldstein Feb 2015 #26
In the words of Frigging' Frankenstein- dirtydickcheney Feb 2015 #23
First, they will swear up and down people are getting upset over things that won't happen. Jamastiene Feb 2015 #24
We don't know what's in it. How can we be against it? Autumn Feb 2015 #25
Kick. SixString Feb 2015 #28

marym625

(17,997 posts)
1. Want to lay any bet on that?
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 09:06 PM
Feb 2015

I will take the, they won't adjust anything. Maybe say something like, "this one thing....but on a whole. .."

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
3. Yep.
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 09:19 PM
Feb 2015

If anyone, for some reason, needed definitive proof our elected reps work for corporations and not US citizens, these trade deals that send our jobs overseas is it. And almost just as bad, our federal govt grants said corporations the ability to bypass local courts & local govt laws for their profits...

Really sad.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
5. We're sorry we though a punch to the nuts would be good.
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 09:48 PM
Feb 2015

We haz a sad....

Here, this kick to the nuts should givez the happeez!

nationalize the fed

(2,169 posts)
7. It didn't take a brain surgeon
Thu Feb 12, 2015, 10:09 PM
Feb 2015

But the likes of Laura D'Andrea Tyson couldn't have been bothered



Clinton took a baseball bat to the knees of Democrats and now it's a knife in the back.

Next Step: Droids. Soon the people of the US will have NO jobs, not even flipping burgers or carrying bags. It's coming and no one cares. But they will.

World's First Robot-Staffed Hotel to Open in Japan
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026191321

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
20. You nailed it here, ^^^this is how they want frame it for credibility as they try to persuade us
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 07:30 AM
Feb 2015

on the wonderful TPP.

I read that this corporate plunder proposal has a 5 year shelf life, so they could also be thinking ahead if it doesn't pass now. It could be the next president's global corporate takeover to sell....

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
13. I guess we can react to this two ways
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 12:07 AM
Feb 2015
1. Their judgment was poor in 1999, and there is no reason to assume it's any better. I don't trust their judgment.

[center][font color="red"][size="8"]- OR -[/font][/center]

2. They knew what NAFTA was all about and lied about it with a straight face. I don't trust them. Maybe they should hire Brian Williams as a spokesman.

aspirant

(3,533 posts)
15. The DU posters will say
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 12:21 AM
Feb 2015

that the Third Way command post has been hoodwinked by a mesmerizing PUSH POLL and will regain consciousness soon.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
16. This vaguely reminds of stories I've heard before.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 01:04 AM
Feb 2015

Yeah, we tricked you in the past, but really, we won't ever do that again.

Maybe it was Lucy, tricking Charlie Brown once again.

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
17. It reminds me, not vaguely, but in vivid detail
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 01:38 AM
Feb 2015

They can go back and forth and cloak their malevolence in wonk-ish, technocratic speciousness, and the argument will go back and forth until the BS is rendered down until the issue is shown at its most base dynamic:

Their "trust me" really means "the hell with you", but only after you've pointed out ( after the fact ) that our trust in them is ill-founded.

Oh they won't say "the hell with you", they'll tap dance with an adroitness that puts Fred Astaire to shame in telling you your pain is illusory or of no consequence: in pursuit of some other greater, nebulous, good

It's the same pattern I've seen with every FTA pushed since I began paying attention in the early 90's.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
22. This OP has now been up for over ten hours
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 07:34 AM
Feb 2015

And not a single Third Way fan has checked in to tell us how wrong it is.

Things that make you go "hmmm...."

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
26. A new thread will appear
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 07:37 PM
Feb 2015

Within an hour or two, a bunch will check in with their sensible adult views.

That's my guess; although this post might create a Heisenberg-uncertainty-ish situation.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
24. First, they will swear up and down people are getting upset over things that won't happen.
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 07:12 PM
Feb 2015

"Obama would never do that," they will say. Then when it becomes clear he IS doing just that, they will say he always said he was going to do that and anyone who didn't know that and agree already wasn't paying attention and doesn't know Obama as well as they do. Then, when it actually happens, they will swear up and down everything is going to be ok. Then, after we give it a while and find out things are really NOT ok, they will tell us to STFU, bend over and take it.

They follow the same pattern every single time.

Autumn

(45,092 posts)
25. We don't know what's in it. How can we be against it?
Fri Feb 13, 2015, 07:18 PM
Feb 2015

Yep. NAFTA was good for the country and had nothing to do with lost jobs. A monkeys uncle too.

rec

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»NOW Third Way is admittin...