General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsStunning to read Joe Bageant's critique of the Left Behind series.
What the 'Left Behind' Series Really MeansBefore he begins he showed these two quotes about the LeHaye series.
"Jesus merely raised one hand a few inches and a yawning chasm opened in the earth, stretching far and wide enough to swallow all of them. They tumbled in, howling and screeching, but their wailing was soon quashed and all was silent when the earth closed itself again."
-- From Glorious Appearing by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins
"The best thing about the Left Behind books is the way the non-Christians get their guts pulled out by God."
-- 15-year old fundamentalist fan of the Left Behind series
That is the sophisticated language and appeal of Americas all-time best selling adult novels celebrating the ethnic cleansing of non-Christians at the hands of Christ. If a Muslim were to write an Islamic version of the last book in the Left Behind series, Glorious Appearing, and publish it across the Middle East, Americans would go beserk. Yet tens of millions of Christians eagerly await and celebrate an End Time when everyone who disagrees with them will be murdered in ways that make Islamic beheading look like a bridal shower. Jesus -- who apparently has a much nastier streak than we have been led to believe -- merely speaks and "the bodies of the enemy are ripped wide open down the middle." In the book Christians have to drive carefully to avoid "hitting splayed and filleted corpses of men and women and horses" Even as the riders tongues are melting in their mouths and they are being wide open gutted by Gods own hand, the poor damned horses are getting the same treatment. Sort of a divinely inspired version of "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on."
This may be some of the bloodiest hate fiction ever published, but it is also what tens of millions of Americans believe is Gods will. It is approximately what everyone in the congregation sitting around me last Sunday at my brothers church believes. Or some version of it. How can anyone acquire and hold such notions? Answer: The same way you got yours and I got mine. Conditioning. From family and school and society, but from within a different American caste than the one in which you were raised. And from things stamped deep in childhood -- such as coming home terrified to an empty house.
One September day when I was in the third grade I got off the school bus and walked up the red dust powdered lane to my house only to find no one there. The smudgy white front door of the old frame house stood open. My footsteps on the unpainted gray porch creaked in the fall stillness. With increasing panic, I went through every room, and then ran around the outside crying and sobbing in the grip of the most horrific loneliness and terror. I believed with all my heart that The Rapture had come and that all my family had been taken up to heaven leaving me alone on earth to face Gods terrible wrath. As it turned out they were at the neighbors house scarcely 300 yards down the road, and returned in a few minutes. But it took me hours to calm down. I dreamed about it for years afterward.
And then the Bageant ties the author to the John Birch Society.
Scratch LaHaye and youll find an honest-to-god surviving John Bircher. In the 1960s when LaHaye was a young up-and-coming Baptist preacher fresh out of Bob Jones University, he lectured on behalf of Republican Robert Welchs John Birch Society. We are talking about a man who believed Dwight Eisenhower was an agent of the Communist Party taking orders from his brother, Milt Eisenhower. Along the way LaHaye extended his paranoid list of villains to include secular humanists who "are Satans agents hiding behind the Constitution." And the only way to destroy them is to destroy their cover.
Joe Bageant passed away in 2011. He called things as he saw them, did not mince words.
RIP Joe Bageant.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Thanks for that!
world wide wally
(21,755 posts)DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)K&R
So here it is, top of the ninth round, and Gaia is on the ropes with cuts over both eyes, and no referee on the mat. Homo sapiens are moving in for the killer punch. It's been an ugly fight. But the truth is that there will be no winner. Certainly not man, considering that his triumph results in the specter of human self-extinction, dieback or die-off, or at least by massive die-back.
Call me a grim old fatalist, but I just do not see the human race turning things around. Not because humans are inherently evil (although pimping Gaia to death comes close), but because we are what we are. In any case, we are not going to stop eating, shitting, burning up stuff to stay warm, or following the genetic imperative to breed. How can we solve the problem when we are the problem, other than by self-extinction?
~Joe Bageant
[center][/center]
trumad
(41,692 posts)KG
(28,753 posts)and that is enough to satisfy most folks in the land of the free....'
damn, that explains a sizable segment of DU
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)Life is lived anecdotally, not algorithmically. And anecdotal evidence is not allowed in the new digital corpocracy. As one poster on Democratic Underground put it, Anecdotal now has this enforced meaning such that no one is supposed to believe what they experience, what they see, hear, taste, smell, etc. The Powers That Be have basically extinguished the notion of inductive reasoning. Everything has to be replicated in a laboratory and since 90% of all the labs in this nation are operated by Corporate Sponsored monies, not much truth comes out of them."
The trouble with the algorithmic age is that life is not a finite sequence of steps that define and contain the algorithmic concepts used. Even when created with the best of intentions -- and we can all agree by now there were few good intentions at Goldman Sachs when they were creating and bundling these mutant investments -- they cannot account for our uninsured sprinkler installer getting cancer, or divorcing the other half of the household income -- or the end of Americas residential construction orgy.
The digital folly is never ending. The knock-on effect just keeps rolling. The latest is the rising scandal of millions of illegal foreclosures created by MERS (Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems), which enabled the big financial firms to securitize and swap mortgages at super high speed. But not to worry. Nancy Pelosi and Christopher Dodd are on the case, and there is sure to be a Congressional committee appointed. Whoopee! Have one on me.
Meanwhile, we have our social networking software to better weave us into the hive. Social networking software, now theres a term that should scare the piss out of anyone with an IQ over 40. It means the database as hive reality. Facebook, online banking, shopping, porn, years of ones life playing electronic games or whatever, online dating and reducing romance and companionship to fit the software. Or 4,000 Facebook friends, data on 4000 Americans voluntarily collected for Facebook corporation. The concept of friends is cheapened, rendered meaningless as it passes through a database. In fact, all human experience is cheapened by that process. Information is not reality.
~Joe Bageant, Algorithms and Red Wine
haikugal
(6,476 posts)Voices like his keep us from bouncing off the insanity cliff...or maybe I'm just saying too much about myself. In any case, thanks for bringing him here tonight.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Wonder how many old assholes smugly walk around town looking at young people being,....well,.....young people and thinking of how their vengeful Sky Spook will make them pay,.....for having the good time they never had.
It's only a small step to thinking since you are the "Enlightened One" than it is your Calling to be God's Holy Instrument.
A visit to the gun shop follows and soon all the neighbors are saying, "He seemed like such a nice man, he went to church all the time."
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)is that there is no Rapture described anywhere in scripture. It is an interpretation only held by a select group of Born-Again Christians. Catholics, Orthodox, and main stream Protestants do not accept this belief. This is very Jerry Falwell type stuff.
Another interesting point is that Jesus clearly says in the Gospels that HE will not judge. The Father will judge and condemn, not Jesus. Jesus is the redeemer, not the condemner. The very act of Jesus opening the earth and destroying souls into hell is almost sacrilegious. The nearest Jesus comes to condemning is sorting the people in Mathew, but even then, he only sorts The Father has already determined who is blessed and who is not.
I see that as a fundamental flaw in these books. Plus the fact they are the most boring ready in the entire world. I find them worse than John Updike, and I really really cannot stand John Updike's writing. I find him to be the cure for insomnia.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)that they have a direct connection to the John Birch Society. When I was growing up this group was seen as anti-American. Today the Koch brothers are passing it off as totally pro-American.
I need to make sure that my family knows that they should avoid the Left Behind series like the plaque.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)repeat it loudly enough and often enough in every conceivable medium. Absolutely anything.
Charlie Pierce explains it in his Three Great Premises of Idiot America:
1. Any theory is valid if it sells books, soaks up ratings, or otherwise moves units
2. Anything can be true if someone says it loudly enough
3. Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it
In my mind these stand with Einstein's Theories of Special and General Relativity in terms of the truth to the greatest extent we currently know it. And they will kill this society, if not human civilization as a whole
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)of Jesus that doesn't exist in the Gospels, and is indeed sacrilegious to my cultural faith, Roman Catholicism.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)At one point there's a scene on a train where there is suddenly this scheming character looking over the protagonist as if they are trying to figure out how best to use them.
Just when you try to figure out who this guy is the author writes, "Perhaps you are wondering why I have inserted myself in the story at this point."
No, but I stopped reading at that point.
safeinOhio
(32,727 posts)superstitious.
flygal
(3,231 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)He's hard to quote because he spares no one at times.
This one really hits home in today's world.
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)and banned. Imagine a leftist writing such a thing on DU. I would see these books stacked up in used bookstores in AZ and my flesh would crawl.
hatrack
(59,593 posts)I think it was Bageant who said (paraphrase) that "The characters speak dialogue that sounds like it was written by Ostrogoths."
At least there's only one Atlas Shrugged - there's volume after volume of this shit.
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)My bullshit sensing field never allowed me to approach the book displays close enough to pick one up. However, the cover art did make quite an impression on me.
And I did consider and worry about the number of volumes in the series, providing hours and hours of brainwashing content to format the RW Christian Fundie Army for the coming Apocalypse.
I'm glad to know Joe Bageant wrote about this, I always appreciated his writing.
JHB
(37,162 posts)The "saved" hole up in Galt's Gulch while "unbelievers" and their world burn.
Dr. Strange
(25,925 posts)Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)because I feel that I, as a loyal member of the RW American Christian Taliban, need to prepare my minions for the coming Apocalypse.
Do I need this? Probably...
KG
(28,753 posts)Bonx
(2,075 posts)- Hans Christian Andersen
The books are ridiculous, but i can't find a source for that 15-year old fundamentalist fan quote anywhere.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)And he's not around.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,654 posts)page 198 of "End-Timers: Three Thousand Years of Waiting for Judgment Day" By Martin Ballard. It's got a citation, but I can't get to the footnote to find where Ballard got it.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I remember reading some excerpts from that.
ChosenUnWisely
(588 posts)Lots of Christians have woddies, so to speak, reading and watching vary bad movies, about how all the non Christians get killed and are made to suffer.
.
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)I know these fine categorical distinctions are so very hard on one intellectually and require actual critical reasoning skills, which modern education has abandoned in favor of high stakes testing. It may not be your fault that you're having trouble with this.
ChosenUnWisely
(588 posts)If that is what one wants to believe, that is their right but that does not make it true.
History proves, time and time again with ALL religions, eventually, it always ends up with someone holding a sword or gun up to your head forcing one to convert or die that is just the way it works.
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)ChosenUnWisely
(588 posts)and that is a historical fact jack.
Religious BS can't even be sold on it own merits, conversion by the sword, it is all ya got.
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)Is it one of your buddies?
Response to Pooka Fey (Reply #33)
Post removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #34)
LanternWaste This message was self-deleted by its author.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)It's quite interesting that you call the murders of three innocent people "brilliant".
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6211732
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)My post was thoughtless and immature. Your post is despicable and dishonest and malicious.
Response to Pooka Fey (Reply #55)
Post removed
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)I'll stay here all fucking night if you want to keep accusing me of advocating criminal activity. You don't like people saying anything about atheists, that is for sure and certain.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)Did you NOT NOTICE WHEN I wrote TWICE that I AGREED that one of my posts was IMMATURE and THOUGHTLESS.
Do you wish to alert on any other of my posts? You are free to do so. And then we will discuss openly and objectively what is objectionable, so that we may learn from the exchange.
Or is your intention to state that atheists are a protected group on DU, immune from criticism, unlike all the faithful of the other 3 main religions?
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)It's more than "one of my posts".
The issue is not of "protected group" status.
It's about rude, insensitive, hurtful posts.
Your admission of being "IMMATURE and THOUGHTLESS"
should give a rational person pause....
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)Might I be the rational person you are referring to, who recognizes immature and thoughtless and gives pause?
Speak plainly, Cosmic Kitten. Don't be shy.
Cosmic Kitten
(3,498 posts)Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)My decoder ring is in the shop this week. The passive aggression comes through loud and clear though.
mwooldri
(10,303 posts)There's a reason why it's called Left Behind. I left it behind at the store and didn't purchase it. Or read it. I sorta saw some made-for-tv movie about this book series and it just wasn't my cup of tea at all.
G_j
(40,372 posts)exactly
blm
(113,100 posts)They were aligned since the 70s, when both were considered to be mind control experts.
Rev Moon's alliance with Poppy Bush(CIA) goes back to the 60s.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Chock full of good stuff.
Good to see you.
blm
(113,100 posts); )
blm
(113,100 posts)You get far more eyeballs than I do.
; )
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)you got me started looking up some oldies but goodies. BTW some of those eyeballs ain't so friendly.
hunter
(38,328 posts)Ignorant uneducated fuckwits are easier to manipulate.
ProfessorPlum
(11,277 posts)His archives start here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/tag/left-behind/page/41/ and move forward through the series. He is a Christian whose analysis of these awful books is both religious and artistic.
Some of the most important cultural criticism I've ever come across.
JHB
(37,162 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)ProfessorPlum
(11,277 posts)on this site. I have really appreciated it over the years.
LongTomH
(8,636 posts)My cousins, on my mom's side eat this shit up! I think that's why my mom and I both stopped going to church.
Thanks again for the reminder and link!
malaise
(269,186 posts)Freaking perfect
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)Sort of a divinely inspired version of "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on."
But seriously, folks, this is why it's terrifying to live around the Rapturists.
Now, I have never harmed them, would do anything to help them, but because I don't buy their religious claptrap, they are going to rejoice in my any-minute-now-our-god'll-be-here-to-validate-us excruciating death.
Hell, if they think the end is near, they may just decide to preemptively gut me open, since that's "what Jesus would want us to do to a nonbeliever."
I love my neighbors, but they don't love me back the same way, I fear. I never fantasized about their deaths, that's for sure.
SICK SICK SICK people who read and enjoy that violence porn.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)I think that you may be mistaken about your neighbors. These people love the idea of "heathens" being tortured by their God in the End Times, but I have a suspicion that the reality will be much harder for them to take. They rejoice in the belief that they would be Raptured, therefore they will be saved from all the suffering.....but they are not really thinking of the reality of what they are wishing for. Their own children may be tortured. Friends, like you, would be tortured. People that they love and adore will suffer. Good people who have helped them in times of need will be tormented. The reality of it will not be so much fun for them to watch.
valerief
(53,235 posts)angel823
(409 posts)Just to thank you for reminding me about Joe and his website.
Great stuff there, coming from a fellow progressive southerner.
Angel in TExasperated
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)And thank you for the heart and the thought behind it.
gregcrawford
(2,382 posts)... shortly before he died (I've got an inscribed copy of "Deer Hunting With Jesus" He was a good man.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Interesting man who had a low tolerance level for fools.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)I'd never seen any material from that garbage series before.
xtian fundies = islam fundies
OldRedneck
(1,397 posts)One evening, sitting on my deck, he went into his "end-times-rapture" routine. I listened patiently as I had for several times in the past, then, I asked him if he would have a spare set of keys made for his Mercedes so I could take it when he is raptured. Also asked him if he would leave his ATM card in an envelope on the kitchen counter with his PIN -- I could use the money.
He blew his stack, stormed back home, hasn't spoken to me since.
His wife got so tired of his bullshit that she left him around Thanksgiving last year after 42 years of marriage. Their daughter asked her what took her so long.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I hear it got terrible reviews. Almost nobody is worse than Kirk Cameron.
azmom
(5,208 posts)We laughed more with the Cameron version. We saw the one where they go after the anti-Christ.
It was a riot. At one point Jesus freezes time so Cameron and his crew can make an escape.
The Nicholas Cage one was funny but there was nothing much to it. People disappeared, leaving their clothes behind and everyone freaks out. The end.
oops, I guess there was a message that I missed. Fro the interwebs.
Anticipation Of The Rapture This was the biggest lesson of the movie for me. While watching the film, you are literally on the edge of your seat because you know the rapture is coming. You just do not know when. As a Christian, I fell under conviction because God had me deal with the question, Why am I anticipating the rapture so much in a movie but not in real life. I should anticipate the real rapture even more because I also know it is coming. I just do not know when.
Initech
(100,104 posts)Oh wait...
struggle4progress
(118,356 posts)of books published a decade or more ago and cheering a now-dead man for denouncing that silly nonsense back then, as if nothing more important had happened since
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I feel like responding more to that but I won't.
struggle4progress
(118,356 posts)thats a very good thing. The first book in LaHayes series follows two protagonists: "revered" airline pilot Rayford Steele and superstar journalist Cameron "Buck" Williams. Unexplained disappearances rock the world, and a charismatic Antichrist rises to power, while Rayford, his daughter Chloe, and Buck prepare to survive the end times as part of the guerrilla "Tribulation Force." This all sounds tremendously exciting, until you realize that both men are arrogant and vindictive bores, the Rapture is forgotten within a few chapters, and the Antichrist is a minor Romanian politician jockeying for leadership of the UN. With its unpleasant characters, glacial pace, and bizarre preoccupation with phone calls and travel plans, Left Behind may be one of the dullest books (and most cynical money grabs, since its story would be stretched over 15 more volumes and a young adult series) to ever hit the bestseller lists. A 2000 film adaptation, starring Kirk Cameron of Growing Pains, didnt redeem it. Im reasonably confident guessing the original script for this version of Left Behind was not written for Tim LaHayes megafranchise at all. The characters and basic setup of the book are channeled into a disaster movie about Rayford (played by Nicolas Cage) struggling to land his plane amid the chaos of millions of people inexplicably disappearing. Its more Langoliers than Leftovers: runways have gone dark, fuel is running low, and the remaining passengers are growing more paranoid by the minute. Theres no UN, no Antichrist, and in fact the whole plot of the movie covers 25 pages in the book although, granted, theyre probably the most exciting 25 pages ... Unfortunately, Left Behind has bigger problems as simple entertainment. It starts with an aimless, meandering half-hour of pointless banter and earnest discussion between major characters, interspersed with almost completely extraneous vignettes of people who will never be seen again. Chloe and Buck are introduced with a forced meet-cute, and the passengers on Rayfords plane are thinly drawn cliches created to fill supernatural-disaster-movie quotas ... Left Behind bears some of the hallmarks of a made-for-TV religious movie, including a bland, schmaltzy, and often totally inappropriate score ..."
A terrible book about the apocalypse gets even bleaker
By Adi Robertson on October 9, 2014 10:00 am
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)have read little or no fiction before they found this crap.
When the very first book came out I picked it up and started reading, but only made it about one chapter in before I realized where it was headed and knew I didn't need to waste any more of my time. I seem to recall it was not well written in the first place, but it was so long ago I've thankfully forgotten any specifics.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)strongly disapprove of regular secular fiction, because since it's not based on the Bible, is lies, pure and simple. They lack any sort of understanding of the memes of fiction, or why fiction even exists. Now, I understand people who simply don't like reading novels (even if I personally think they're weird), or those who read only one sort of fiction -- I have a good friend who only reads mysteries -- even though I can't imagine such a limited outview of life. But still, I do reasonably well understand such people. But those who generally read the Bible and only the Bible (it's the only part that stops me in my tracks) have a profound lack of understanding of the uses of fiction. I'm not talking about sophisticated literary analysis here, lord knows I don't do that sort of thing very well. What I'm getting at is to be able to read a piece of fiction and say something beyond, It was good. Or it was bad.
I would love to read a genuinely well-written book based on the notion of the Rapture. Doesn't matter if I believe in such a thing or not. A good book on that topic would be quite fascinating. Unfortunately, such books are only written by the True Believers, and they have few if any skills at writing interesting fiction.
iscooterliberally
(2,863 posts)My mom and my sisters raved about them. They are religious. I thought they were boring and the characters were not interesting. There was one named 'Buck' because he 'bucked the system'. How creative - NOT! The book covers looked great though!
Thanks for this post. These guys are even nuttier than I thought.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Both had hair-trigger bullshit detectors and an enviable way with both common sense and words.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)Never forget that Fred Koch, father of the Koch brothers, the current force overtaking Congress, was a founding member of the Birch Society.
I'd say the apocalypse of fire is going to be ecological disaster urged on by this, may I saySatanic family.
bluedeer71
(15 posts)Yes, I did read the entire series. In fact, I was once an "evangelical christian". Even when reading the books as a "believer", I knew something was amiss. I got so tired of people in "positions of authority" telling me what to think and how to act. Even when I was a "believer", I questioned this authority. Finally, I decided that if there was a God, he wasn't going to hunt me down and kill me if I doubted the church. When being honest with myself, I questioned just about everything with the church. The hypocrisy of the evangelical church was so overwhelming that I finally left. Now, if someone professes to be a christian, particularly an evangelical christian, I find myself disgusted by it. Maybe that's an over-reaction, but I just can't deal with it. To me, they are all deluded. To me, they have all given up all control over their own lives, basically because they are afraid of God. I do not and will not "serve" a God of whom I should live in fear. If there is a God, surely he is not like that, and if he is, I don't need him in my life.
I threw the books in the trash a few years ago.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I could relate to so much of it. I was raised Southern Baptist, but left when they called Iraq a holy war and said we were unpatriotic.
Good point:
"If there is a God, surely he is not like that, and if he is, I don't need him in my life"
So true.
azureblue
(2,152 posts)was, as a middle schooler, being told the story of the Biblical flood again, how everything perished that wasn't on the Ark, etc., and I had the nerve to ask, "but what about the fish?' I well remember the stunned look on the person's face who was teaching the story, then the pivot from a older Christian to a hateful person who spit out the words, "how dare you doubt the Bible!" And I thought I had asked a reasonable question. That was the moment when I got that nagging feeling that something was very wrong here. And i was right.
Diremoon
(86 posts)I came to the conclusion that I did not believe the bible stories at a very early age, but I was always aware that to not claim to be a true believer was to place myself in danger from those around me. Six decades of watching xtians has left me pretty will disgusted by them. At one time I thought that maybe their religion gave them comfort. Now I see it just helps them rationalize their hate. To hell with them.
indivisibleman
(482 posts)I got to chapter two or three as I recall. It was so poorly written and so absolutely stupid I was astonished that so many people were reading it.
The Omen was a hundred times better.