Bruce Jenner's Escalade ran into a Lexus that had ALREADY hit a Prius in front of it, according to police.

[pnwmom]

Last edited Sun Feb 8, 2015, 04:26 AM - Edit history (1)

So maybe this was one of those common California pile-ups caused by all the drivers involved following too closely.


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/08/us/bruce-jenner-involved-in-deadly-car-crash-in-malibu.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

Mr. Jenner, Sergeant Brooks said, was driving a black Cadillac Escalade and pulling a trailer with a dune buggy. In halting traffic, a white Lexus sedan apparently struck a Prius that had slowed or stopped. Mr. Jenner hit the white sedan from the rear, and it veered into oncoming traffic, where it was struck head-on by a Hummer.

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/celebrities/291185551.html

Jenner was going north when his black Cadillac Escalade rear-ended a Lexus sedan that had just struck the back of a black Toyota Prius, Brooks said. The Lexus veered into oncoming traffic and collided head-on with a black Hummer.

The driver of the Lexus — a woman in her 70s — was pronounced dead at the scene.

Investigators were trying to determine who or what triggered the crash; they plan to look at the cellphone records of all four drivers and check for any video evidence, sheriff's Cmdr. Michael Parker said.

Photos of the crash site showed the white Lexus mangled in the front and back, facing the Hummer, which had a heavily damaged engine and its hood popped open. Jenner's Escalade, which was pulling an off-road vehicle, had a damaged front end.

[Egnever]

1. Sounds like it wasn't his fault.

This part was certainly news to me.

It comes at a time of widespread talk that Jenner, 65, is becoming a woman.

Though Jenner himself has declined public comment, those in his inner circles have not challenged the mounting speculation that he is preparing to live as a woman and perhaps will appear in a new reality series about his transition.

[pnwmom]

2. That's the reason, I'm sure, that he's getting so much attention from paparazzi lately.

The transgender story started to gain traction a couple weeks ago. Various family members have confirmed it.

[Major Nikon]

17. When you rear end someone, how can it not be your fault?

Unless someone rear ends you and drives you into another vehicle, which is what Jenner's SUV was reported to have done.

[RichGirl]

20. If lexus hit prius...

...and then Jenner hit lexus...wouldn't the lexus have been sandwiched between the two cars? How could it have gone into oncoming traffic.

The point is....you should always....ALWAYS....be driving at a speed that if you have to stop...you can. You gauge that speed by how thick traffic is and distance between cars.

[Major Nikon]

24. I don't think there's any dispute that Jenner's vehicle drove the Lexus into oncoming traffic

But yes, you are correct. It is always the driver's responsibility to insure enough space between the car in front to stop safely. The trailer Jenner was towing could have and probably did increase his stopping distance, but he should have allowed for that. If he didn't, that's a common mistake people make when they don't have much experience hauling trailers. Still I don't see any way the accident could have been anything but his fault as far as what's been reported so far.

[pnwmom]

120. Courts often spread the responsibility around in a multi-car accident.

He will probably share some responsibility with the woman he hit -- because she had stopped suddenly when she hit the car in front of her.

[Gin]

40. I was thinking that too. Reminded me of a police manuever

[cwydro]

44. That's true - maybe the Lexus bounced off the prius

and at that moment Jenner hit her?

Her wheels appear straight in the photo, so it's hard to see how she was sent into the other lane...

[Quackers]

124. From the pictures

It looks like Jenner hit his brakes and veered to the right striking the Lexas in the right rear. Being hit in the right rear would force the Lexas forward and to the left. It was just enough force to be shoved in front of the Hummer.

[cwydro]

125. damn.

Poor lady

[tblue37]

77. I used too always try to leave sufficient stopping space on the highway, but

nature abhors a vaccuum. Every time I would do so, another car (or two!) would immediately dart into that space, and then if I hung back a bit to reestablish that buffer space for stopping, then another car will get into the space. Now I just try to watch like a hawk and drive the speed limit, so most people pass me and leave me some space on their own initiative.

[hollysmom]

82. I was going to say that as well

it is not nature that abhors a vacuum, but other cars.

[pnwmom]

118. Exactly. The gaps always get quickly filled. n/t

[jmowreader]

135. Very simply

This is conjecture but maybe something like this:

a) The Prius comes to a screeching halt for reasons unknown at this time.

b) The Lexus driver nails brakes and turns the wheel to the left to attempt to avoid the Prius, but hits it anyway.

c) Jenner's SUV hits the Lexus hard enough to make it move forward. Since the wheels are cocked to the left, that's where it's going.

d) Oncoming car hits the Lexus, killing the driver.

[Art_from_Ark]

137. If you rear-end someone who cut in front of you

and then they stopped suddenly, it's not your fault.

[AngryAmish]

21. Every time you rear end someone it is your fault.

Your obligation is to be able to stop. The trailer greatly increases stopping distance.

[FLPanhandle]

28. Correct. It's still Jenner's fault

It's his responsibility to allow enough room to stop even if the car in front of him suddenly stops.

He won't be charged with anything because he can afford a good lawyer though.

[cwydro]

41. Exactly. nt

[MH1]

43. He'll probably pay out in a civil lawsuit.

As he should.

He should probably get charged with whatever covers "negligent driving resulting in an accident", and MAYBE same "resulting in death" (not sure if that's vehicular manslaughter or not); but at this point not enough is know about the Prius and the Lexus, nor the vehicle that hit the Lexus. The Lexus hit the Prius then Jenner hit the Lexus - but initial stories said Jenner hit a car that was stopped. Was the Lexus stopped? Or was it still moving, in a path taking it into oncoming traffic? Could the driver who hit the Lexus have avoided it? Lots of questions for the professional investigators to resolve before knowing what to file.

Jenner shouldn't have been following so close as to not be able to avoid hitting the Lexus if he were paying attention. Duh. But look around you the next time you're on the highway. Many drivers - I'm betting 50% or more - drive in such a way that they'd be unable to avoid a sudden pileup in front of them. And even if I stopped in time, I have a better than even chance that I"d be rear-ended by one of these yahoos. I'm not exonerating Jenner, just saying that a whole lot of the holier-than-thou stuff is coming from people who aren't.

[kwassa]

103. His insurance company will pay out, maybe several insurance companies.

[treestar]

54. "A good lawyer" is not a miracle worker

If the facts and evidence are there, you don't get out of it by hiring "a good lawyer." Maybe they can make the best plea bargain, but you don't get out of it.

And there may be no reason to charge him with a criminal offense. The worst would be a ticket. This is a civil matter. Negligence is not criminal, it's civil.

[lancer78]

68. Except for Johnny Cochran

n/t

[treestar]

97. He was good but there was a lot wrong about the way the case was presented

but that's not what I referred to; more the type of attitude that people can get away with anything, because a "good lawyer" can make the justice system go bonkers. Sort of a rich boy's attitude that he can buy his way out of anything.

[cwydro]

100. Like the "affluenza" kid?

[MillennialDem]

59. Unless they cut you off and slam on the brakes immediately. (ie within 1 second)

[Dreamer Tatum]

65. +1 well said nt

[R B Garr]

3. It's amazing none of the cars spun off that embankment.

That road can be hazardous with a lot of hot-head locals in the area speeding and passing. They use pieces of that highway in a lot of car commercials because it's so picturesque. We always recognize it in the commercials and try to figure out the exact location.

[RichGirl]

22. I remember a while back...

Someone behind the scenes famous was driving that road...going around a curve...AND... texting a picture of his dog...and drove right off a cliff. I think he was associated with that show "Hills". Which had Brody Jenner in it.

[babylonsister]

4. Why is this news? Not to me. nt

[pnwmom]

5. There have been questions raised about whether paparazzi helped cause the accident.

There are laws in California against paparazzi shooting photographs of people in moving vehicles.

This was a serious accident involving several cars, and at least one person died. And Bruce Jenner has been in the news lately, as his family have confirmed rumors that he's going to be transitioning to be a woman.

[RichGirl]

26. It's been proven that the pap weren't chasing him.

At any rate...Jenner is part of a family that has made millions being photographed. His face is on every magazine. If he didn't want that he could stay home. You don't drive recklessly and endanger other peoples lives because you don't want your picture taken!!! Especially if you've been on a reality show!!!

I remember watching Tori and Dean and laughing because they would constantly complain about the paps. When you know perfectly well that they want nothing more than to have their faces plastered on magazines. I'd bet they called the paps themselves.

If you have exposed your dirty laundry on a reality show please don't whine about paparazzi!!!

[trumad]

35. Proven?

There are pictures of Jenner hitting the car in real time. That was from the PAP's.

[LisaL]

48. They were following him, but he wasn't trying to outrun them.

He is used to being followed. Paps didn't play a role in the accident, from what the officials say.

[RichGirl]

67. They take pics at long distances...with telephoto lenses.

A lot of pics looked like they were taken from a high place. At any rate...even if they were behind him it doesn't mean that they were "chasing him". It looked like the traffic was too dense for anybody to chase anybody.

[pnwmom]

83. Not "proven." An investigation has barely started and the evidence is

that the paparazzi were immediately on the scene and taking photos of what they said was the moment of impact.

Definitions of "chase" will obviously vary, but everyone seems to have acknowledged that the paps were "following" Jenner.

[peacebird]

126. There are multiple pictures of Jenner in the seconds before & after the accident. Paparazzi clearly

WERE involved.

[MADem]

127. I'd want to see a link that says that--there are pictures of him contemporaneous with the accident

so someone had to be there to take them.

[Dreamer Tatum]

66. If I'm a celebrity and I cause an accident, I'd say there were paps all over.

why not? Couldn't hurt, and maybe I'm right.

"I was driving in a dangerous manner because I was avoiding someone with a camera" is not a defense.

[HERVEPA]

42. So why did you commention it?

[jtuck004]

6. Is this meant to imply that it's ok to just deliver the Coup de grâce to one already injured?

Jenner was driving and drove into some one else, causing their death, driving too fast to stop. It is the following driver's responsibility to leave enough following distance to stop. Period. Also appears that he may have lied about being chased, according to the article in the link.

Whether the driver of the other car was in a wreck previously makes no difference, except to people who want to piss on the dead woman's memory, of course. To them she was and is nothing, .

Selfish bastard was Irresponsible and reckless, and if this is true, deserves prison time, instead of being treated like a star with rights that are more important than the woman whose death resulted from criminal behavior.

[Exhibit A]

7. +1

[pnwmom]

8. Why would you think that? I just said it sounded like a common California pile-up

caused by drivers following too closely.

But from the evidence available now, he appears no more irresponsible and reckless than the woman he hit -- who had already hit the car in front of her. Why is he guilty of criminal behavior and not the woman in front of him who first hit the Prius?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

18. she was guilty, too...

however, as it was HIS impact that sent her careening into the oncoming lanes he is at fault for her death. pretty simple, when you think about it.

sP

[treestar]

56. The jury decides the percentages of negligence

Since she hit the car ahead, she will get assigned some percentage.

[kwassa]

99. Hey! This DU! WE assign negligence, don't you know?

DU has spoken! Throw his ass in jail!

[RichGirl]

46. Because....

The women in the lexus is guilty of rear-ending another car.
Jenner is guilty of rear-ending another car and killing the driver. BIG difference.

The impact of a large vehicle towing an ATV is way more than a regular car. Therefore, he should have considered that and kept his speed down and greater distance between car in front of him.

[pnwmom]

86. That wasn't the question I meant.

I asked why he assumed I was absolving Jenner. I was merely saying this sounded like a common situation in CA, a multi-car pileup because of drivers following each other too closely.

[RandySF]

9. +1

[alphafemale]

13. It's called vehicular homicide.

I'm not giving him a pass because he was transitioning and on TV and rich as hell.

He was driving inattentively and caused someone to die.

[padfun]

37. It would be vehicular manslaughter

not homicide.

[alphafemale]

57. touche' I consider myself properly scolded. nt

[treestar]

60. All killings are homicides

Homicide is a neutral concept. Where it is murder, self defense, manslaughter is a different question. Even the executioner commits a homicide.

192.5. Vehicular manslaughter pursuant to subdivision (b) of
Section 191.5 and subdivision (c) of Section 192 is the unlawful
killing of a human being without malice aforethought, ...



So he might be guilty of this

[kwassa]

104. This doesn't fit the definition of vehicular homicide in California.

In the state of California, depending on the degree of recklessness and whether alcohol was involved, a person could be charged with progressively more serious offenses: vehicular manslaughter, vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated, gross vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated, or second-degree murder. In any of these cases, the prosecution must prove that the driver committed some wrongful act (which could be a felony, a misdemeanor, an infraction, or a lawful act that might cause death) and that the wrongful act caused the collision and the death of the victim. Murder charges are usually reserved for the most egregious cases, such as a convicted DUI offender who drives recklessly while intoxicated and thereby causes a fatal collision.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_homicide#California

It looks like vehicular manslaughter is the highest offense in this case. Jenner's liability may be limited due to other factors in this case, including the initial collision.

[pnwmom]

110. Not unless they can prove criminal negligence.

If they can't, then it's a civil case.

And so far they've shown that he passed sobriety tests and he was holding a cigarette, not a cell phone.

[Logical]

23. FFS, are you serious? nt

[AngryAmish]

25. Prison? For a traffic accident?

I am assuming Jenner was sober and not driving like a maniac. Every day people get in traffic accidents. They don't deserve jail. Doctors kill people through negligence every day. Jail?

Jenner deserves a ticket and a crippling civil judgment.

Why put everyone in prison?

[rjsquirrel]

30. It's not an accident

It's negligent driving. He killed someone's mom.

Fuck him, prison spy da right. He won't because rich celebs never face the music. Ticket and a slap on the wrist, Ms. Jenner, camp we cops have your autograph?

[AngryAmish]

36. All accidents are caused by negligent driving .

All malpractice is negligence.
Someone slips, falls and dies at your house because you were too lazy to wipe up a spill? Negligence. Then you go to prison by your standard.

We don't have enough prisons.

[treestar]

61. That's what negligence is

An accident.

[kwassa]

101. no, negligence is failure to use reasonable care, resulting in damage or injury to another.

You are correct that there is probably negligence on the part of the Lexus driver.

California is a comparitive negligence state.

[pnwmom]

111. The fact that someone died doesn't make the act criminal.

It all depends on what caused the accident. So far it appears that he was sober and probably not using a cell phone. He was holding a cigarette, but there isn't a criminal law in CA against driving and smoking.

[FLPanhandle]

50. People go to jail all the time for reckless driving when it causes a death.

Why is Jenner so special?

[AngryAmish]

52. People go to jail if they are drunk, high or going 110 mph.

Not simply going too fast.

Am I missing something? Are there allegations of phone talking or drugs or going 40 over the speed limit?

We don't jail people for negligence in the US.

[FLPanhandle]

70. People have gone to jail for texting and driving then killing someone.

Google it.

[AngryAmish]

74. Was he texting?

[Lonusca]

78. Police are getting a warrant

this picture looks like he might be holding a phone

http://www.tmz.com/2015/02/08/bruce-jenner-texting-search-warrant-fatal-accident-search/

[frazzled]

102. They are getting warrants to search the cell phones of everyone involved

The picture on TMZ appears to be fake, as well: note the police report says the white lexus was damaged both in front and behind; it's not here. Besides, who could have snapped a picture from the left of the two vehicles at the moment of the crash? Think about it.

Let's not start using TMZ as some kind of valid source here.

[Lonusca]

106. then use these from ...

..the NYDN.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/bruce-jenner-survives-deadly-car-crash-malibu-article-1.2106864

All the pics out there are all the same. It's a zoom view. We can tell the lady in front of him didn't have one as she seems to be screaming right before getting killed. They care about Jenner's phone.

Yes - there is no damage to the white car's front, because it has not hit the Hummer yet.

And if you want Celebrity News - TMZ is the place

[Lonusca]

107. Looks like smoking

and not texting. This is good for him

http://www.tmz.com/2015/02/08/bruce-jenner-smoking-photo-texting-fatal-crash-search-warrant/

[pnwmom]

115. Right. The photo supports his innocence of a criminal act. Smoking isn't criminal. n/t

[Lonusca]

132. I don't think there is anything criminal about this

Although someone will have a field day with a civil suit

[pnwmom]

114. tmz has corrected that. Look at their site now.

They show that he was actually holding a cigarette, not a cell phone.

[pnwmom]

113. There's no evidence yet that he was texting. What he was holding was a cigarette,

according to photos that came out today.

[Coventina]

53. Not really. One of my closest friend's daughter was killed by a guy running a red at 70 mph.

All he got was two tickets: for speeding and running the red.

If he'd been DRUNK however.....

[alphafemale]

63. No one on DU gave a damn about Jenner until about 3 weeks ago.

Now he can plow into the back of a grandmother's car and cause her to be killed and there are people defending the careless ass.

[Dreamer Tatum]

72. I definitely see it too. You're not the only one. nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

85. I still don't give a damn. n/t

[pnwmom]

112. Why is he so special to you? Why are you claiming he drove recklessly without any evidence yet?

So far the reports say that he wasn't speeding; that the woman in front of him suddenly stopped when she hit the person in front of her; that he attempted to stop (based on skid marks); that he passed sobriety tests; and that what some thought was a cell phone in his hand was actually a cigarette.

CA doesn't have a law against smoking while driving.

[pnwmom]

87. Jenner passed the sobriety tests and the blood tests.

I doubt that most of these people would want to be judged by the standard they're using to judge Jenner.

[RichGirl]

33. People like him want their pictures to be taken.

As long as they get paid for it.

[treestar]

55. You don't go to jail for negligence

You end up paying money. It is civil, not criminal.

[jtuck004]

64. "‘Negligent’ Oscar Pistorius still faces lengthy jail term"

http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/negligent-oscar-pistorius-still-faces-lengthy-jail-term-286081.html

There is such a thing as criminal negligence. There are also people not worth wasting one's time with.

Opinions, too.

[treestar]

81. You are right. though I doubt it applies to Bruce here

looks like ordinary negligence.

Even so California law appears to allow for that to be vehicular manslaughter.

An experienced California DUI defense attorney can help you argue some of the following legal defenses to 191.5 PC charges:

You were not actually intoxicated at the time of the accident;
You did not act with negligence or gross negligence;
Your negligence didn't cause the victim's death, and
You were facing a sudden emergency and acted reasonably under the circumstances.
In order to help you better understand California vehicular manslaughter/gross vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated laws, our California DUI and criminal defense attorneys will address the following:

http://www.shouselaw.com/gross-vehicle-manslaughter.html

[pnwmom]

88. Being distracted isn't the same as deliberately shooting a gun through a closed door. nt

[AndreaCG]

128. Are you serious???!!!

Comparing a traffic accident with a shooting? Which occurred under very suspicious circumstances. That's absurd and tremendously unfair to Jenner.

[jtuck004]

129. It was unfair to cause the woman's death. Nice of you to forget about her. Think

I will repay the favor.

[AndreaCG]

130. Jenner didn't kill her on purpose

There is ample evidence that Pistorius killed his girlfriend on purpose, although the verdict was ultimately negligent manslaughter. Hardly the same thing.

For Jenner to have done the equivalent he would have had to argue with the woman beforehand then as she crossed the street gun the car and run her down. That is NOT what happened.

[jtuck004]

131. He got behind the wheel of a car and drove too fast and out of control. It is irrelevant

whether Jenner, in this case, purposely aimed his car at the dead woman. He caused her death through his selfishness, arrogance, and carelessness.

No different than a drive-by on a stranger. He is an adult, in control of a deadly missile, and killed someone with it.

Murderer.

[pnwmom]

84. No, it isn't. It is meant to say that driving too closely is common in CA, as are multi-car pile-ups

That's what this appears to have been.

[JI7]

10. i don't really get this, i have driven when there was a stopped car in front of me that shouldn't

have been stopped. but for whatever reason, accident or the car doesn't work it's not moving. i see the car is there so i slow down and stop my car . and either wait for them to go or move into the next lane if they are not able to move for whatever reason. but i don't just keep driving.

[pnwmom]

11. That works well as long as people aren't following too closely. In many roads in CA

people routinely follow much too closely. That's why we hear about 10 and 20 car pile-ups.

The rule of thumb -- one car length for every 10 miles an hour of speed -- is ignored more than it's followed in California. But without the space between vehicles, a vehicle won't have time to safely stop.

[JI7]

12. i drive in california in the LA area and there really isn't any excuse

and there have been many asshole drivers .

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

69. I've been driving on Los Angeles freeways since 1969

and it's very uncommon to not see someone following too closely, even when the freeways allow high speeds. Almost no one follows the California DMV Driver's Manual's instructions about safe driving distances.

[Arugula Latte]

90. Yeah, I've ridden in cars driven by relatives in Calif. and they

will leave about 20 feet in front of the next car while going 65 or 70. I'm pushing the imaginary brake the entire time.

[Spider Jerusalem]

15. More than one car length for every 10mph when driving an Escalade and towing, I'd say (n/t)

[alphafemale]

14. Yeah, but he won't be charged with vehicular homicide

An average person would be.

But he's rich and famous.

A black or Hispanic person would be.

But he's white.

[dsc]

32. yeah the transgendered have it so great in this country

it isn't like they get killed all the time, fired from jobs, etc. No wait it is like that.

[RichGirl]

34. This has NOTHING to do with him being transgendered.

Imagine that he wasn't...that he's just plain old Bruce Jenner, former Olympic star, Mr. Kardashian. Every word written by every news org regarding this accident or on any thread would be exactly the SAME.

Whether gay, bi, trans etc...you shouldn't be discriminated against...AND...you shouldn't be given a pass either!! Regardless of sexual orientation, race, gender, religion, nationality, dem or rep...whatever...you can be an irresponsible asshole or not.

[dsc]

45. I am not saying he should be given a pass

but the poster I was responding to said that she would get off solely for being white and I pointed out, accurately I might add that in addition to being white she is also transgendered. I would be willing to bet that transgender trumps white in this case.

[alphafemale]

62. Jenner will not be charged for this death even though at fault.

$$$ and fame has its privileges.

[pnwmom]

123. Except there is no evidence yet that he was criminally at fault. n/t

[pnwmom]

122. Except the paps wouldn't have been tailing him if not for the recent transgender story.

He's a 65 year old has-been, well past his prime. It's his daughters that have been getting all the attention.

But he might be lucky they were there, since the latest released photo show he wasn't holding a cell phone -- it was a cigarette, and they're not illegal to use when driving.

[RichGirl]

47. You are right about that.

I have a friend who works in the prison system. He says that there are black guys in prison for possession of marijuana doing more time than white guys who have committed murder. Regardless of what the original sentence was...the black guys never seem to make parole...the white guys do.

[Ilsa]

51. Not "homicide" unless you believe he intended to kill

the Lexus driver. From what I've read, involuntary manslaughter if he was negligent.

[pnwmom]

116. No, an average person wouldn't be charged unless they did something criminal.

Smoking a cigarette while driving isn't criminal in CA, even if you are involved in an accident.

[mainer]

29. And Jenner was towing something, meaning he had more mass to control

and should have given himself even more distance between him and the next car.

[B Calm]

16. Should have been watching the road.

I have no idea what Jenner was doing, looking at herself in the mirror maybe?

[WinkyDink]

19. #1 Rule: PAY FREAKIN' ATTENTION.

[rjsquirrel]

27. There is never an excuse for rear ending

anyone else. If you can't stop in time you were not keeping proper following distance. It really doesn't matter what the car in front of you or the car in front of them did. Insurance and the law almost always find the rear-ender to be fully at fault -- as well they should.

Plus the moron was clearly texting or dialing his cell phone. On a busy highway. Driving two tons of metal counting the trailer.

I have heard the "but s/he stopped short" excuse a million times. It doesn't wash. You must always be prepared to stop and alert to the possibility you will have to.

No one rear ended Jenner's go kart did they?

Case closed, negligent vehicular homicide. Get this freak show family out of here.

[Logical]

71. Sure there are, a person pulling in front of you and slamming on thier brakes! Nt

[rjsquirrel]

133. Not usually

in my experience that is still substantially the following driver's fault. You weren't following at a safe distance. If someone pulls in front of you, you need to drop back.

[Logical]

136. It is a well know insurance scam. You really don't know much about this. nt

[Logical]

73. Also, no trial for you? Mind made up? How GOP of you! Nt

Last edited Sun Feb 8, 2015, 01:47 PM - Edit history (1)

[rjsquirrel]

134. Lol whut?

How "GOP" of me?

First, there is rarely ever a "trial" in an auto accident. There is an investigation. Criminal charges are only called for if criminal negligence or malice is asserted. Otherwise, insurance companies and the police can and do assign fault and blame. It would be the rare auto accident that led to a trial. Maybe a civil trial, but that depends only on a preponderance of evidence, so even more conducive to supporting the obvious facts of a situation.

Nor did I say Jenner should go to jail or be criminally charged. I said he was clearly at fault, based on photographic evidence and common sense. We don't wait for trials to form opinions about, let's say, the cop who killed Eric Garner. We saw the video, we made up our individual minds. That's what I am doing because in my 40 years of driving experience I have never, ever seen someone rear end another car when they did not bear substantial responsibility. In this case it is obvious. Doesn't make a bit of difference whether or not the Lexus rear ended a car in front of it (which turns out not to be true anyway). Jenner was driving a large vehicle towing another vehicle. He had the damn phone in his hand in *pictures* at the moment of impact. He was following too closely and not paying attention, whether or not he had killed someone or there was an accident in front of him. On a highway, you always leave enough room to stop even if the car in front of you stops short. That's the theoretical ideal.

So yeah, made up my mind, and yet I am to the left of Karl Marx, go figure.

Edited to add: in what universe is it more characteristic of "GOP" folks to "make up their mind in advance" than liberals? Liberals are equally inclined to favor stories that support their views. It's human to form an opinion based on what you know and what you believe. So your comment is an outright smear, bringing right/left politics into this discussion when they have NOTHING to do with Mr. Jenner's negligent causation of the death of another.

Also, OJ did it.

[pnwmom]

89. In situations like this, judges and juries divide negligence among the various parties.

The woman ahead of him who first hit the Prius would be likely to share some of the blame.

You are right that Jenner is responsible for his driving, but in a situation like this, the driver in his position (unless he were drunk or something) is unlikely to be assigned 100% of the negligence.

[a kennedy]

31. Getting hit by a car following to closely is my worst nightmare....

especially when driving on snow or slippery roads. I keep tapping by brake lights to have them back off. Just hate that.

[Major Nikon]

75. When someone tailgates me, I increase my following distance

I can't do much about someone tailgating me, but I can increase the time I allow for myself to stop. Tapping your brakes will often make aggressive drivers drive that much more aggressively and/or incite road rage dipshits.

[pnwmom]

91. That can be difficult on some freeways, where other drivers will immediately fill in the "gap."

In California on many roads there are typically very close following distances. Hence, the multi-car pile-ups.

[Major Nikon]

93. It's no different in Texas and they will cut in regardless

2 seconds behind the driver in front of you is enough for anyone to cut in front of you. If someone does it just means I will get to my destination 2 seconds later so it's not something I worry much about.

[pnwmom]

94. I wouldn't care either except I do think about stopping distances. n/t

[a kennedy]

96. And usually the people that pass me in a huge hurry.....are the ones

Stopped at the next light when I arrive just in time for the light to change to green. I'm usually smiling to myself when I see them stopped at the light.

[Major Nikon]

98. One of things I liked about living in Germany is people actually understand lane discipline

Folks who dart in and out of traffic actually slow everyone down.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

95. Yes - that's been my experience

Sometimes I laugh about the fact you can't leave much more than a car length or two of space in front of you before someone cuts in front of you and fills it in. It's very serious though and dangerous. And on top of that, some drivers seem to get very aggressive once they get behind the wheel, constantly changing lanes to try to get a few car lengths' advantage.

[MohRokTah]

38. Sounds like two drivers are at fault.

First, the Lexus driver is at fault initially.

Then, Jenner is at fault for compounding the accident.

Unless police find evidence to the contrary, like a following paparazzi's car pushing Jenner into the Lexus or some other mitigating factor, I think that's how the accident will be ruled.

[MH1]

39. "they plan to look at the cellphone records of all four drivers"

Funny, the only headlines / stories I'd seen before this said they were looking at Jenner's phone to see if he'd been texting.



This is what I can't stand about media. Regardless of Jenner's other characteristics, positive or negative, why the hell single him out, if ti is true that they are looking at the phones of all drivers involved, which makes sense and is not prejudicial to anyone? (Yeah, I know, dumb question. "make money by getting readers/ viewers and sell advertising", of course.)

Also, most stories I saw yesterday totally ignored that the car driven by the victim had just hit a car that was STOPPED in front of her. On a HIGHWAY. Now maybe at that time of day cars can be expected to stop in that area of highway, but normally, stopping in the middle of the highway = bad accident about to happen. (My most terrifying car experience was when my transmission just stopped working while I was driving in the left lane of a highway, with moderate traffic. I was somehow able to get across all lanes of traffic and pull off on the shoulder safely. I was lucky that day.)

[RichGirl]

49. Each driver is responsible for being able to stop if necessary.

So they were all negligent...but it's only Jenner whose negligence caused someone to die.

I've never driven an SUV or towed anything...but I've been a passenger when someone else was driving and you really have to be extra careful because the weight of it all can cause way more damage than a single car. So he actually had a greater responsibility to drive carefully than other cars.

[bettyellen]

58. There was a light 300 feet away. Yes people stop on highways all the time.

They also frequently use their cell phones while driving. They're testing four phones? I bet 1-2 were using them when the accident occurred. Negligence is common.

[pnwmom]

92. And it's not just the media. Many DUers seem to want to single him out

for nasty comments, even though an investigation has barely started.

And even knowing that the reason for all the negative media attention is his transgender status.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

76. Hummers should be seized and destroyed...jesus christ, how enraging is that shit

I suppose Escalades arent all that much better for the environment

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

79. I'd hate to get hit by a real heavy car like an SUV or Hummer

I drive light little cars from yesteryear that use little gas like my '61 Renault that weighs 1200 pounds (lighter than a VW) and my beloved Saab 96 that is very small and lightweight, too.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

80. I LOVE that... Yeah, anyone who drives a gas hog is saying "my comfort is more important than all

life on the planet surviving"

Kinda makes you wanna slap someone like that.

[KingCharlemagne]

105. My little Nissan putt-putt car (Sentra) usually allows me to scoot away

from these monstrosities. But there are few things more terrifying than being on a CA freeway and boxed in on all 4 sides by these land yachts. Then I just cross my fingers and pray to the cell phone gods that the SUV drivers are paying attention and not texting while driving. Otherwise, I'm toast!

[Warren Stupidity]

109. the 96 was a sweet car.

Too bad saab lost the recipe.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

108. Jenner was an INSANE athlete, as in GOOD, i hope the new docu-reality show about his

transition reminds people of this.

There is a reason she/he is so famous.

[pnwmom]

117. He was a great athlete. Imagine, though, the pain he's been living in for all these years. He's 65 years old

and finally going to be the person he's always felt he was.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

119. Have you seen the Amazon series "Transparent", awesome

a must see

[pnwmom]

121. No. Thanks for the rec, NoJusticeNoPeace! n/t