Is there anyway now that we can be considered not racist?
This is a response to Liberal Racism: 25 Things I Learned After I Wrote About ISIS and White Racism at the Daily Kos
I have been reading that if we deny it, then we really are.
If I point out ways I have taken stands, then I am sounding superior apparently.
I have noticed that I better not say I have friends who are African American, in fact I still keep in touch with some teachers after retirement. We truly cared for and respected each other. But if I say it out loud it's a sign of pandering or something.
Is there anyway that not every white person has hidden racism?
I don't even know how to respond to posts like this anymore.
I can't deny I am racist, that's the worst of all. Apparently if we deny it then we really really are.
Some of us just are what we are. Our skin is a different color, but our thinking is kind and appreciative of all skin colors.
Posts like this appear (guess I will be corrected if I am wrong) to assume that those who are white are racist.
I very much disagree with that premise.
= new reply since forum marked as read
You are a classy lady. Love that you are standing up for yourself.
What a damn coward!!! I still wonder who that one is. Well, I guess I'll bing the legal 'medicinal' weed. We need it for the stress from DU. Being the worst of the worst is a big job for us. Need to have a barbeque.
I was proud to serve on that jury.
Look at us. I don't even feel irritated anymore.
Thank you for that. Needed it tonight.
Lol~ the medicinal weed sounds like a plan
Response to bravenak (Reply #107)
people who they are. I see there are a few people fanning flames for their own interests. Bravenak is not one of them imo.
I do believe that both of you could resolve this. Because both of you, (without the interference of people who appear to delight in fanning flames here, could simply be ignored) are kind, caring people who had a disagreement, misunderstanding, that is blown out of proportion by others.
You will always be one of DU's most respected members. You and Bravenak are the only people who should be discussing this. The ONLY reason I commented was because I believe you could resolve it if it were not for those who seem not to want to see that happen.
Keep up the good work, you are a DU treasure, and my hope is that Bravenak, who is probably more like you in the sense that she too wants this world to be a better place, than is apparent to either of you right now, and you, can push aside those who do not share your and her spirit, will come to an understanding.
alike, in spirit, than is apparent to either of you right now. I did read one of the links provided and from the outside, and I know things always are easier from that pov, it does seem there was a misunderstanding of what you meant. Sometimes, this medium makes it hard to communicate, and there are times in people's lives when they are more sensitive to things than they might normally be.
For what it's worth, and from the outside, that seems to be what happened, to ME. But I am not you or MF, and won't presume to tell either of you how you should feel about each other.
I'm just sorry I guess, because I believe you are both on the same path, in spirit.
I'll think about it. Just pissed. You probably won't see us in the same thread again anyway. I'll take a smoke break. 
You know what I mean.
behind the scene communications with Hosts discussing posts?
Why didn't I think of that!
That explains a lot!
She was protecting the elderly. 
I remember your thread in AA, you were sad, yet you sure as hell weren't wrong.
Me, I am clueless why people do not understand racism is alive and well in this world. As you know, that comes from a white woman.
She never managed to get mine hidden so she wilded out and started trashing me with her friends. The three hundred recs Hurt me though. I was sad.
I'm over here wondering why we have to pretend. Then I clicked the handy link in th op and saw her numbers.
I hope everybody who rec'd it can now see why she was upset. Same reason the op by Chauncy upsets her.
I told them that Rap IS protest music, but they ain't hearing that. It's gotta have accoustic guitars and crooning and who knows what. They also think we're supposed to do it like MLK.
That would be wrong.
If we redid all of their songs, I think they'd be even more pissed. Say we ruined perfection.
See the pissed off thread about Sam Smith winning a Grammy & it having to do with a Tom Petty song....I listened to both songs & think Sam should be getting paid by Petty for making it a million times better.
Much better than Petty. 
what good music is & that it's not "our" place to decide. 
Last edited Mon Feb 9, 2015, 04:49 PM - Edit history (1)
There is a reason Neil Young plays with 20 somethings, or why Bob Dylan and Pete Townsend always call out the boomers on their bullshit, because they know that while some have kept their conviction, many have sold out, BUT, they still want to be treated like the hippies they claim to have been once upon a time (which they were not then, and are not now) Hel, we are about to elect one in 2016.
To quote Pete Townsend "whatever happened to all that lovely hippy crap?"
John Lennon provides an answer: "nothing happened in the 60's save we all dressed up."
Of course, bravenak and madflo are two of my favortie posters here, they know me, and I have told them that.
Bravenak Madflo, I will not ask either of you to giver up your points, but I will say this, please be careful, because the folks on discussionist are laughing, and trying to figure out how to use this to bury you and me in the same damned grave 
*sigh*. eom
Just googled it. 
I may just be posting that tomorrow~
I am game for another hide.
Saving for Posterity:
178. I have seen it. Do you believe all white people are the same? Do you think of all of us are your enemy?
I hope everyone reading this OP and attempting to defend it sees this post. You are not interested in seeing any other perspective other than your own, particularly if it gives you a platform to portray yourself as the victim in the process. It should now be apparent to everyone why that OP from DKos upset you so terribly.
I damn well knew what bravenak said, you know why? Because I listened to what she said. I have been listening, she has become a friend of mine. I am old enough to be her mother! Hell. I am old enough to be her grandmother me thinks, almost anyway.
View profile
It was not an attack. It was a defense of older white liberals. We do still count, you know.
Lol~ Thanks for your so called defense, I never needed you to stand for me. Never did and never will. So glad you could stand for 484 people, you must be so proud. Oh Yikes you are.
Number23 said you got 300 plus recs. You! You had to correct her and show all your pride in your recs all 484 0f them.
What is that saying? Pride cometh before the fall.
But - does your husband know you feel that way? 
of this! How will folks keep up the "oh, she just hates white folks" spin if you start letting them know that my husband and large swaths of my family are... (wait for it)... WHITE???! 
Don't harsh the drama, JAG!
But I think we can now add Number 26 to that Kos list of things that happen when black people start to discuss white liberal racism. After the obfuscation, butthurt, demands to change the subject, and victimization comes the final stage:
26. Accuse the people who have informed you that your dismissive/ignorant/racist comments or actions have upset or hurt them of "bullying" you because they dared to not sit quietly or give you a cookie after you said or did something ignorant/dismissive/racist.
A nice ending to an extremely comprehensive and true list, wouldn't you say?? 
It just struck me as silly. 
12 years here have taught me a thing or two about when to keep it zipped
I wish I knew how to do the same.
But I think that alot of folks have been keeping our lips zipped for a long time which is why you can practically count the entire number of posters of color here with two hands. So unzip those lips and get to schooling! 
Obviously someone is lonely & as she says down thread it's really hard being white on DU.
And all this crap about 'Oh, I'm expressing what so many others want to say but haven't had the courage to write.' Like it's some sort of privileged club of private messages all going around saying 'You go! Completely misinterpret articles for us! We're too scared to misinterpret them ourselves!' ROFLMAO
I know, right?? To call that "weird as hell" is Understatement of the Century. There's so much weird stuff going on this thread it'll take three nights of solid reading to get through all of it.
A few surprises in this thread though, including some nice surprises. But for the most part, I'm not shocked by anything I've read nor by the folks writing it, no matter how melodramatic, unnecessary or just plain stupid.
offered up an apology to another poster over that thread -- classy thing to do.
I took my chances and lost with that post Haven't ventured into GD yet today to see if there's an update...
It's about me me me! And my issues. Me, it is all about me. Screw the rest of you. Scuse my language msanthrope.
You amaze me with your whit and intelligence, I bow to your superiority.
I will do a Sid here for you~
they are leftist african americans who do NOT like Obama! you like to smear anybody and everybody critical of Obama. 
Indeed, we could all use a little perspective from time to time.
Oh, indeed.
You also said the post made you feel sad inside. Now, one might think that the post would make someone sad because of the fact that people of color have to deal with crap like this (and especially that POC have to deal with stuff like this from people who should be allies). Instead, it appears to have made you sad because someone chose to talk about the fact that this stuff happens, and you took that as an attack on you somehow.
My original question remains: why does that post make you feel defensive?
Response to Aerows (Reply #51)
Divide and conquer, ND-Dem, that's what it seems to be.
Response to madfloridian (Original post)
Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #131)
& was kinda wired up!
I'll wear my glasses tomorrow!
I'm suprised that only one post has been hidden.
Ah well, time to get some popcorn.
Any particular reason?
I suppose you think that legally charged/bail-jumping rapist Julian Assange is a paragon of moral virtue, or that President Obama-the first black President, mind you-is a "fascist." Which reminds me re: the word "fascist": Considering that in the past, you have quoted Holocaust deniers and other professional anti-Semites, I wouldn't be so quick to use that slur.
Anyway, you need to realize that, while you obsess over the "BFEE" supposedly having John F. Kennedy assassinated over five fucking decades ago (despite being repeatedly debunked by actual experts-who you arrogantly dismiss as "government shills" , and you imply that President Obama can't possibly measure up to Kennedy or Truman or FDR or whatever White Male Democrat Of The Past (TM) who faced radically different conditions from what Obama faces today (in so many ways)...you need to realize that there are black people/people of color, women, the LGBT community, and others who remember the mid-20th century, and for that reason, are immediately suspicious of your "Paradise Lost" narrative where America was "permanently' murdered on November 22, 1963, and that it's "been downhill ever since."
Bullying tactics? So feminists/women, racial minorities, and the LGBT community are the "bullies" now? Obama supporters, who-contrary to your own reflexive conspiratorial absolutist worldview, actually are capable of looking at politics realistically, pragmatically, and reasonably-are the "bullies" now? Uh huh. Right.
It is a fact that white racism has played a huge part in the resistance to Obama-not just among the Right, either, but on this very board where Democrats and progressives supposedly are dominant! Why are you so resistant to acknowledging this? Instead of being so angrily defensive and dismissive, perhaps you ought to ask the African-American posters here how they perceive white liberal racism in the Age of Obama. Unless, of course, you dislike learning new things that challenge your own preexisting worldview...
Here's what I told you before:
Both of these guys had ancestors and cronies in the slave trade.
Baron de Rothschild and Prescott Bush, share a moment and some information, back in the day.
The people who tried to overthrow FDR in 1933 had kids.
And their offspring* and connected cronies in crime are the ones* screwing America now.
What's different today, is we don't have Smedley Butler or FDR to stop them.
* Of course, it's not just a few rich families's offspring who screw the majority today. They've hired help and built up the giant noise machine to continue their work overthrowing the progress FDR and the New Deal brought America for 80 years.
Why would the nation and world's richest people do that? Progress costs money. And they don't want to pay for it, even when they've gained more wealth than all of history put together. Instead, whey continue to work -- legally, through government and lobbyists -- to amass even more, transferring the wealth of the many to themselves.
And instead of an armed mob led by a war hero on a white horse, as planned in 1933, their weapon since Pruneface made his first payment to the Ayatollah has been "Supply Side Economics." To most Americans, that means Trickle-Down.
Rothschild and Freshfields founders’ had links to slavery, papers reveal
By Carola Hoyos
Financial Times
Two of the biggest names in the City of London had previously undisclosed links to slavery in the British colonies, documents seen by the Financial Times have revealed.
Nathan Mayer Rothschild, the banking family’s 19th-century patriarch, and James William Freshfield, founder of Freshfields, the top City law firm, benefited financially from slavery, records from the National Archives show, even though both have often been portrayed as opponents of slavery.
Far from being a matter of distant history, slavery remains a highly contentious issue in the US, where Rothschild and Freshfields are both active.
Companies alleged to have links to past slave injustices have come under pressure to make restitution.
JPMorgan, the investment bank, set up a $5m scholarship fund for black students studying in Louisiana after apologising in 2005 for the company’s historic links to slavery.
CONTINUED (with registration, etc) ...
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7c0f5014-628c-11de-b1c9-00144feabdc0.html
Generation upon generation, knowing only service to power and property.
Kevin Phillips called them a ''multigenerational family of fibbers.''
The Barreling Bushes
Four generations of the dynasty have chased profits through cozy ties with Mideast leaders, spinning webs of conflicts of interest
by Kevin Phillips
Published on Sunday, January 11, 2004 by the Los Angeles Times
EXCERPT...
During these years, Bush's four sons - George W., Jeb, Neil and Marvin - were following in the family footsteps, lining up business deals with Saudi, Kuwaiti and Bahraini moneymen and cozying up to BCCI. The Middle East was becoming a convenient family money spigot.
Eldest son George W. Bush made his first Middle East connection in the late 1970s with James Bath, a Texas businessmen who served as the North American representative for two rich Saudis (and Osama bin Laden relatives) - billionaire Salem bin Laden and banker and BCCI insider Khalid bin Mahfouz. Bath put $50,000 into Bush's 1979 Arbusto oil partnership, probably using Bin Laden-Bin Mahfouz funds.
In the late 1980s, after several failed oil ventures, the future 43rd president let the ailing oil business in which he was a major stockholder and chairman be bought out by another foreign-influenced operation, Harken Energy. The Wall Street Journal commented in 1991, "The mosaic of BCCI connections surrounding Harken Energy may prove nothing more than how ubiquitous the rogue bank's ties were. But the number of BCCI-connected people who had dealings with Harken - all since George W. Bush came on board - likewise raises the question of whether they mask an effort to cozy up to a presidential son."
Other hints of cronyism came in 1990 when inexperienced Harken got a major contract to drill in the Persian Gulf for the government of Bahrain. Time magazine reporters Jonathan Beaty and S.C. Gwynne, in their book "The Outlaw Bank," concluded "that Mahfouz, or other BCCI players, must have had a hand in steering the oil-drilling contract to the president's son." The web entangling the Bush presidencies was already being spun.
CONTINUED...
http://faculty.plts.edu/gpence/html/kevin_phillips.htm
Of course no one's heard of the BFEE. While they wonder how Saddam got WMDs, Wall Street gets ahead.
Here's why you may be confused regarding the BFEE and the assassination of JFK:
In the hour of the death of President John F. Kennedy, Texas oilman George Herbert Walker Bush, telephoned the FBI and named a suspect in a "confidential" phone call. He then added he was heading for Dallas.
Here's a transcript of the text:
TO: SAC, HOUSTON DATE: 11-22-63
FROM: SA GRAHAM W. KITCHEL
SUBJECT: UNKNOWN SUBJECT;
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT
JOHN F. KENNEDY
At 1:45 p.m. Mr. GEORGE H. W. BUSH, President of the Zapata Off-Shore Drilling Company, Houston, Texas, residence 5525 Briar, Houston, telephonically furnished the following information to writer by long distance telephone call from Tyler, Texas.
BUSH stated that he wanted to be kept confidential but wanted to furnish hearsay that he recalled hearing in recent weeks, the day and source unknown. He stated that one JAMES PARROTT has been talking of killing the President when he comes to Houston.
BUSH stated that PARROTT is possibly a student at the University of Houston and is active in political matters in this area. He stated that he felt Mrs. FAWLEY, telephone number SU 2-5239, or ARLINE SMITH, telephone number JA 9-9194 of the Harris County Republican Party Headquarters would be able to furnish additional information regarding the identity of PARROTT.
BUSH stated that he was proceeding to Dallas, Texas, would remain in the Sheraton-Dallas Hotel and return to his residence on 11-23-63. His office telephone number is CA 2-0395.
# # #
Gee. Why was Poppy Bush in Dallas when JFK was assassinated?
Could it be, he was on official business? I suspect he was on Secret Government business. After all, his eldest son bragged during his Texas Air National Guard and Harvard grad school days that his daddy was CIA.
Here's an FBI document from the same week of the assassination in which FBI Director J Edgar Hoover briefed one "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency." Some strange coincidence there, wot?
Here's a transcript of the above:
Date: November 29, 1963
To: Director
Bureau of Intelligence and Research
Department of State
From: John Edgar Hoover, Director
Subject: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY
NOVEMBER 22, 1963
Our Miami, Florida, Office on November 23, 1963, advised that the Office of Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in Miami advised that the Department of State feels some misguided anti-Castro group might capitalize on the present situation and undertake an unauthorized raid against Cuba, believing that the assassination of President John F. Kennedy might herald a change in U. S. policy, which is not true.
Our sources and informants familiar with Cuban matters in the Miami area advise that the general feeling in the anti-Castro Cuban community is one of stunned disbelief and, even among those who did not entirely agree with the President's policy concerning Cuba, the feeling is that the President's death represents a great loss not only to the U. S. but to all of Latin America. These sources know of no plans for unauthorized action against Cuba.
An informant who has furnished reliable information in the past and who is close to a small pro-Castro group in Miami has advised that these individuals are afraid that the assassination of the President may result in strong repressive measures being taken against them and, although pro-Castro in their feelings, regret the assassination.
The substance of the foregoing information was orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency and Captain William Edwards of the Defense Intelligence Agency on November 23, 1963, by Mr. W. T. Forsyth of this Bureau.
# # #
Hmm. "Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency."
Russ Baker in his "Family of Secrets" discussed these memos (which many first learned about on DU). Keep an eye peeled for David Talbot, who is working on Allen Dulles' connections to the assassination. If you see it before I do, please give me a heads-up.
I learned about what we now know about the assassination of President Kennedy at an academic conference at Duquesne University:
Snooper2 wanted to know if I’d asked DUers for money and wondered how much support I had gotten from my “fan base.”
Despite the discouragement, I shared on DU some of what I learned there:
Octafish to attend JFK assassination conference. Do you think JFK still matters?
JFK Conference: Amazing Day of Information and Connecting with Good People
After JFK Conference, when I got home, I felt like RFK.
JFK Conference: Bill Kelly introduced new evidence - adding Air Force One tape recordings
JFK Conference: Rex Bradford detailed the historic importance of the Church Committee
JFK Conference: Lisa Pease Discussed the Real Harm of Corrupt Soft Power
JFK Conference: James DiEugenio made clear how Foreign Policy changed after November 22, 1963
JFK Conference: Mark Lane Addressed the Secret Government’s Role in the Assassination
JFK Conference: David Talbot named Allen Dulles as 'the Chairman of the Board of the Assassination'
JFK Conference: Dan Hardway Detailed how CIA Obstructed HSCA Investigation
Noah's Ark - Nov. 22, 1963 (at Oakland Community College in Michigan)
JFK Remembered: Dan Rather and James Swanson talk at The Henry Ford (like Heinz History Center, a Smithsonian Affiliated Institution.)
Seven Days in May -- tonight on TCM
Machine Gun Mouth
Feel free to go to any of the OPs and dissect for errors. I'll apologize and correct my post.
Nixon's White House tapes revealed a murderous intent on the part of Nixon and members of the Secret Service:
President Richard Nixon OK'd assigning a murderous Secret Service agent to protect Sen. Ted Kennedy.
Vital information for US citizens to know, yet is what is never mentioned on Corporate Owned Media. It's also is a good example of why I never denigrate people with labels, like "CT." It is a loaded term, designed to poison the person as a source of information and news. Here's the treasonous, murderous reality of the "Unindicted Co-Conspirator" of Watergate fame:
Nixon approved hiring a Secret Service man who said he'd 'kill on command' to guard Ted Kennedy. You can hear Nixon and Haldeman discuss it, about 40 minutes into the HBO documentary "Nixon by Nixon." While I had read the part of the transcript available years ago, and wrote about it on DU, almost no one I know has heard anything about it.
Ted Kennedy survived Richard Nixon's Plots
By Don Fulsom
In September 1972, Nixon’s continued political fear, personal loathing, and jealously of Kennedy led him to plant a spy in Kennedy’s Secret Service detail.
The mole Nixon selected for the Kennedy camp was already being groomed. He was a former agent from his Nixon’s vice presidential detail, Robert Newbrand—a man so loyal he once pledged he would do anything—even kill—for Nixon.
The President was most interested in learning about the Sen. Kennedy’s sex life. He wanted, more than anything, stated Haldeman in The Ends of Power, to “catch (Kennedy) in the sack with one of his babes.”
In a recently transcribed tape of a September 8, 1972 talk among the President and aides Bob Haldeman and Alexander Butterfield, Nixon asks whether Secret Service chief James Rowley would appoint Newbrand to head Kennedy’s detail:
Haldeman: He's to assign Newbrand.
President Nixon: Does he understand that he's to do that?
Butterfield: He's effectively already done it. And we have a full force assigned, 40 men.
Haldeman: I told them to put a big detail on him (unclear).
President Nixon: A big detail is correct. One that can cover him around the clock, every place he goes. (Laughter obscures mixed voices.)
President Nixon: Right. No, that's really true. He has got to have the same coverage that we give the others, because we're concerned about security and we will not assume the responsibility unless we're with him all the time.
Haldeman: And Amanda Burden (one of Kennedy’s alleged girlfriends) can't be trusted. (Unclear.) You never know what she might do. (Unclear.)
Haldeman then assures the President that Newbrand “will do anything that I tell him to … He really will. And he has come to me twice and absolutely, sincerely said, "With what you've done for me and what the President's done for me, I just want you to know, if you want someone killed, if you want anything else done, any way, any direction …"
President Nixon: The thing that I (unclear) is this: We just might get lucky and catch this son-of-a-bitch and ruin him for '76.
Haldeman: That's right.
President Nixon: He doesn't know what he's really getting into. We're going to cover him, and we are not going to take "no" for an answer. He can't say "no." The Kennedys are arrogant as hell with these Secret Service. He says, "Fine," and (Newbrand) should pick the detail, too.
Toward the end of this conversation, Nixon exclaims that Newbrand’s spying “(is) going to be fun,” and Haldeman responds: “Newbrand will just love it.”
Nixon also had a surveillance tip for Haldeman for his spy-to-be: “I want you to tell Newbrand if you will that (unclear) because he's a Catholic, sort of play it, he was for Jack Kennedy all the time. Play up to Kennedy, that "I'm a great admirer of Jack Kennedy." He's a member of the Holy Name Society. He wears a St. Christopher (unclear).” Haldeman laughs heartily at the President’s curious advice.
Despite the enthusiasm of Nixon and Haldeman, Newbrand apparently never produced anything of great value. When this particular round of Nixon’s spying on Kennedy was uncovered in 1997, The Washington Post quoted Butterfield as saying periodic reports on Kennedy's activities were delivered to Haldeman, but that Butterfield did not think any potentially damaging information was ever dug up.
SOURCE:
http://surftofind.com/tedkennedy
Why does that matter? The Warren Commission, and the nation's mass media, never heard about the CIA-Mafia plots to kill Castro until the Church Committee in 1975. You'd think that would be a matter of concern to all Americans, especially considering how then-vice president Nixon was head of the "White House Action Team" that contacted the Mafia for murder.
This is the sort of information citizens of a democracy shouldn't have to search the Internet to learn. It should be taught in school, or at the least, discussed in the nation's mass media. I certainly think it's unfair for people -- especially those who consider themselves Democrats or democrats -- to label those interested in such subjects "Conspiracy Theorists."
PS: Notice I included links and sources to back up what I wrote. Where are yours, YoungDemCA?
Ok, that made me laugh.
Next time, you could at least try to offer an actual counter-point.
My many feline associates and I are watching this thread with wonder! And
We are having a winter of ice in horse country NJ! And The Gio is happy because I came home with three jars of nutella on Saturday!
Response to Post removed (Reply #422)
