General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPayin with "Lovin'" -- a McMistake
Introduced in their SuperBowl ad, McDonald's is letting some customers pay with "Lovin" through Valentines Day, a policy that many find disturbing and disconnected from reality:
...
But at The Nation, Bryce Covert argues that the campaigns problems go beyond its potential awkwardness. She calls the mandate that McDonalds employees request lovin from customers a pretty blatant example of emotional labor: the requirement that a low-wage employee not just show up to work and adequately perform her duties, but that she put on a veneer of happiness and cheer for the customer to elicit an emotional response in him. Emotional labor, she writes, requires poorly paid people to slather a smile onto their face and cover up the real conditions under which they labor. And, she adds:
McDonalds has been one of the fast-food companies hit by massive, repeated waves of labor unrest by striking workers demanding better pay, the ability to form a union and an end to retaliation for their actions. Workers have been vocal about the fact that they and their families cant survive on the money they make. But the company instead wants its customers to see employees who are genuinely delighted that a mother hugged her son in front of them.
For Ms. Bachelder, the lovin campaign embarrasses customers and maybe McDonalds itself. In Ms. Coverts formulation, it may do something worse: force McDonalds workers to do more work for their already-low wages, and to pretend that they like it.
http://op-talk.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/05/paying-with-lovin-a-mcdonalds-mistake/?ref=opinion&_r=0
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... being a way for McDonald's to whitewash their lousy working conditions and pay. Hard to imagine that customers won't see this as phony as hell and that workers will benefit from it in any way. It's just another absurd demand from the boss.
I refuse to eat at McDonald's but do stop to avail myself of their porceline fixtures when travelling.
ChosenUnWisely
(588 posts)marble falls
(57,097 posts)GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)A positive attitude in the service sector is vital to the success of the business, and management has a right to ask employees to at least be respectful of customers.
One's attitude helps not only the business but the person who maintains that attitude.
It's entirely possible to hate your job but enjoy your life, your interactions with customers, and every moment-- it is a choice.
If they don't want to greet customers with smiles and offers to dance, then they can chose not to.
If they lose their job over refusal to comply, that's their choice.
I've recommended the OP for the discussion of the topic, I think it's worthy of discussion.
Personally, I don't go to McDonalds or any of the chains, and I try to get everything I can from independently owned retailers.
That is increasingly hard and costly to do, but if we don't then everyplace we shop will be the same Target-Walmart-McDonalds experience.
Chiyo-chichi
(3,580 posts)A positive attitude in the service sector is indeed tremendously important.
Employees should absolutely be professional, pleasant, courteous, and respectful of customers.
If they lose their job over refusal to comply, that's their choice.
That's the part that does sound a bit harsh.
Dancing and hugging was not in the job description of these McDonald's employees.
I would feel quite badly for someone who was otherwise doing a good--or even adequate job--if they lost their job over refusal to comply with this marketing/PR crap.
But I highly doubt that is happening. Any halfway decent manager would want to keep a good employee even if they don't want to dance or hug.
I say leave the marketing to marketing professionals who are paid for marketing. Let McDonalds employees do the jobs they were hired to do... and yes, pay them a living wage.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)My job security comes from doing my job well.
I have in the past help high and low positions that had more benefits and a sense of security, but in the end they were not secure.
The only true security comes from adding value.
That's just the truth and it always has been.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)putting them through unnecessary and counterproductive bullshit.
Which fucking idiot MBA came up with this pseudo-business retreat crap?
cwydro
(51,308 posts)as a customer or an employee.
Glad I never eat there.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)then they should not get a positive attitude via threats.
kcr
(15,317 posts)It's degrading. I hate restaurants that make employees stop what they're doing and sing and dance every time a song comes on, though that seems like a trend that has passed, thankfully. I will not tell them it's my birthday or let anyone do that so they'l sing for me. There's a difference between having a positive attitude, whatever that means for each individual, and forced degredation. I especially do not want to feel compelled to join in as a customer. That is a sure way to lose my business.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)and it's nonsense for you to think that your attitude towards your job has any applicability to the average minimum wage job
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I was thinking about you the other day during a community board meeting.
The topic came up about pedestrian traffic incidents and the decision made to create and disseminate to local schools a campaign urging children to yield the right of way to cars and cycles.
Even though pedestrians legally have a right of way, we decided to explicitly explain that the environment is better served if we don't slow down vehicles, causing them to convert momentum into wasted heat energy.
It's safer, too, and just common sense.
So, any rain there yet?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)when is a pedestrian expected to cross if cars won't yield to them?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)If a car stops, it turns momentum into heat, unless it has regenerative braking.
There is no reason a two ton car should have to stop when a 139 pound human can just hold still for a second and wait.
That's how we do it in my sustainable community: we don't force cars to apply brakes, we don't create unnecessary traffic.
It's sheer logic.
Now if the pedestrian is faced with an uncontrolled crossing but has a crosswalk, it's not reasonable to expect them to wait for hours until there is no traffic, but that is rarely the case.
At an intersection, pedestrians need to wait for the walk light. If there is no light but stop signs, they need to let a car stop and then proceed.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)surely no government entity would defer your 1950's traffic safety knowledge.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I now own a EREV.
The other committee I refer to, well advanced in their thinking to the SF/Berkeley "carz sux cuz I sez so" set, is committing funds to safety PSAs that will cut down on dangerous intersections.
I suppose some might like to just shut those darned intersections down, but we feel strongly that the most efficacious approach will be to tell kids to look both ways before they cross.
I know, it's very quaint. Personally responsibility, what a concept!
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Is that what you'd like them to do?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)But the idea is that one should never step out in front of traffic if doing so will cause the car to apply their brakes.
Never, ever, it is common sense.
And if one is in a hurry and needs to cross, it is the mature human thing to do to cross quickly, to trot, and not to stroll, if cars are coming.
I'm honored to live in such an advanced community.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)what the heck, why are they always gettin' in your way, wastin' your gas/energy.
and since lots of McDonalds' workers can't afford a car because of their low pay, your answers to me on this topic and in this thread about the employees, strangely show a consistency in terms of their obtuseness.
as for the PSA's the experts have different messages for improving pedestrian safety and saving energy. i surely hope you aren't helping your local government waste precious taxpayer dollars on PSA's with messages that the experts would not agree with.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I am among the experts, my good friend.
Were I to detail the transportation and community affairs committees of which I am a contributing member and, sometimes, speaker and author, people might be able to identify me and then give me grief.
I don't need that.
So, is it raining there? It's coming down here, and it's interesting to see how much bigger the surf became ahead of the storm. I had a house plant outside on the balcony and it blew over, and the surf looks like Mavericks!
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Sierra Club, NRDC, which ones?
Which environmental group has hired you to speak to them or write for them, the pedestrian messages/rules you've advocated for in this thread?
You said you're an expert on this, which environmental groups support your opinions and which ones have you spoke to on them?
Which ones, really simple?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)So, ask away, sweetie!
I've been a co-presenter with L. Hunter Lovins, if that helps ya!
And, while not on a personal friendship level, I do associate with the heads of Greenpeace and Sierra Club, and they and I respectfully differ on a couple minor details but are otherwise amicable.
I just wrote three articles on electric vehicles, two of the series of three have been published.
It was funny, Creek, because no sooner had I finished the third that my Prius gave up the ghost with a "hybrid battery pack failure" alert, so I was very well acquainted with the technology and looked at the range of PHEVs and settled on a very low mileage ObamaCar.
Do you know what an ObamaCar is, CreekDog?
American made, silent but deadly, and the color is very nice, it's called "Veridian Joule"!
Clever, no?
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Remember when Safeway required their employees to greet everyone and if a customer asked where a product was, the Safeway employee had to escort the person to the aisle where it could be found? It was so absurd that it felt like stalking. I would imagine that it had net negative impacts because it doesn't appear to be the policy anymore.
But this:
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)When I was a welder, it was clear that not everyone that came along could be a welder.
When I was a teacher, same thing.
Some people aren't adaptable to the service industry and might be better choosing a different line of work, there are a lot of unskilled positions that aren't about smiling.
It's their choice to be nasty, it's not my job to pay people to be unhappy.
I had several temp jobs that I hated, I was fired at one and left the others by choice.
Choice, get it?
cwydro
(51,308 posts)if you think everyone in these jobs has any "choice."
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)Do you truly think that someone would "choose" to work at McDonalds if they had other decent choices?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Support employee apathy, or fight for fair wages.
I prefer the latter to the former, if you support the former then it's a lost cause.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)or whatever, is a far cry from apathy.
I don't consider that in any way professional. I'm expected to be professional, cheerful etc with our clients.
But that smarmy asking people to dance or call their mom would be a dealbreaker for me.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)As a high school dropout, as a single parent of two kids, as a resident of a rural area where there are few jobs, your choice would be a Hobson's choice.
As I wrote above, when I worked in such environments I knew that it was temporary for me but for an astounding number of my co-workers the shitty job was really the best option they had given their life circumstances.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Are we really to default to the worst case scenario for all employees and then enact legislation protecting poor behavior on the job.
The OP was an invitation to discuss work ethic and reasonable expectations of employees by employers.
It's also a great opportunity to discuss minimum wage, benefits, and training, but not explicitly so.
Thus, we're left wondering what is this about? Should dirt wage employees be required to fulfill expectations, or should we give them a pass because they are paid so poorly?
The answer is "neither"; we need to pay them more and with that pay expectations are reasonable.
So, I ask you, if the hourly rate was $20 would the requirement of engaging and smiling, etc., be an acceptable expectation?
Would it?
bluesbassman
(19,374 posts)But the conditions of employment are established at the time of hire and based on the norms of the industry. Chuck E Cheese employees know that a good percentage of their job requirement is entertainment. McD's is not the same. So some hair-brained ad agency scheme decides that McD's is going to now try to make their dining experience an interactive one by forcing their employees to perform in ways that they did not sign up for, that go above and beyond the simple act of being courteous to the customer, and you feel that they should just toe the line and do what they're told with no differential in compensation for the additional requirements?
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Not "who's."
Since you're a published author and all...thought you might appreciate the difference.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Oh how I love the smell of desperation in the morning, and for all to see!
I have made the wrong choice among three, if not more, homonyms! And been caught! Whatever shall I do!
We have unpaid interns to deal with trivialities such as how words are spelled on discussion boards, but we decided to give them the night off.
If you don't give up, one day you can have something published, too.
REP
(21,691 posts)Don't have me degrade myself. Treat me with respect. Pay me a living wage. Provide a safe, non-hostile workplace.
Absent these things, expecting a "positive attitude" is asking a bit much.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I said it was harsh but it's true.
Where the hell is it stated that people can be poopie heads while serving the public and have job protection?
I mean we're on the same page but are fighting the wrong battle if we want to protect workers' rights to be stinky.
Let's give them better pay, not some form of protection.
do you get my drift?
REP
(21,691 posts)Why do you assume not licking the masters' boots equals being unpleasant to customers? It doesn't work that way. If you're expecting service workers to kiss your ass, you may be part of the problem. They owe you professional courtesy and nothing more.
I say let's give them better pay and protection, in the form of unions. Workers need to be protected from unfair workplaces and unfair repercussions from unpleasant customers.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)We agree on the principles, but maybe not on the details.
The OP, the matte at hand, seems to take exception to the idea that employees should follow a script.
Following a script is part of many jobs, both low and high pay jobs.
I'm not sure what we are supposed to expect McDonalds to do.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)or short of that, a higher wage than they are paying?
and while paying a poverty wage, not expect employees to dance and put on shows for customers?
are you so detached from the reality of the workplace for lower income people that you couldn't fathom these things?
jeez.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)but being forced to ask customers to do this other crap is just wrong.
I rarely go to McDonalds; but they are always as nice as can be.
I cringe to think of them having to act this way to customers.
No way would I do it. NO way. And I'm a top performer (as they call it) in the job I have, which is heavily customer/client oriented.
I guess since they are minimum wage workers we should expect them to sing and dance for their wages, right?
Wow.
csziggy
(34,136 posts)Too many companies expect cheerfulness from minimum wage employees who are juggling two or three jobs in order to make ends meet while trying to dovetail unpredictable schedules.
In addition, the employees can seldom expect acknowledgement of their efforts - management too often only gives out criticism and no compliments or increase in pay. Positive feedback would do wonders for employees attitudes - pay them more, give them kudos for being cheerful, give them time to adequately serve the customers with a smile. When you are expected to serve customers in a minimal amount of time, it's hard to be cheerful about additional requirements that cut into your efficiency especially when you are likely to be docked for not serving a customer every 30 seconds.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)If the price of a bigmac is a dance routine, I'll select something else from the menu.
The thing that really annoyed me about the ad is when the kid asked the 60-ish year old guy to call his mom.
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)When I have to get fast food I don't want to dance around for it. I can afford the $6, I just want to pay it and go.
Give "winners" a choice to just buy out of it and let the next customer(s) choose to do the same. Eventually there will be someone who is living hand to mouth and really does need to save that $6
get the red out
(13,466 posts)Or I would turn around and walk out and go to Wendy's. I doubt they could have me arrested.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)I watched a promo for it thought the tv was on was the Onion Network.
This goes beyond stupid.
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)a huffy "What you want?".
These workers deserve a hell of a lot better pay and benefits but they need to be helpful, professional, and pleasant.
get the red out
(13,466 posts)Without being required to engage in humiliating behaviors.
Nay
(12,051 posts)bullshit, both for the customer and the worker. If I were a customer, I'd leave immediately rather than see such low-paid workers forced to act in such a degrading manner. I would, of course, refuse to participate.
This is a particularly egregious example of the one-percenters' desire not just to wring out of workers every dime possible, but to bully and torture them as well. It must give them woodies or something, but it seems to be a trend.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)I will walk out of any restaurant that does this to me on my birthday.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)It's total corporate dominance over the rights of labor. This keeps them toeing the line, making what resistance there is emotionally and mentally exhausting. Capitalism demands the abuse of workers in order to extract the most profit. Keep them scared, keep them exhausted, keep turnover high, and it prevents them from uniting.
Also, there really are an unnerving amount of sociopathic/psychopathic/authoritarian people in the elite. They take pleasure in suffering.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Also, "Our McWorkers do not have paid sick leave - so may be sick. McCaution is advised".
vanlassie
(5,675 posts)What if a family member just died and you dragged yourself to the first place you could find after leaving the hospital or something? Because you're hungry. You have to be ready for fun if you go to McDonalds?? Beyond beyond stupid.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)says "call your mom and tell her you love her" and she's dead ?
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)and get up on the counter and start going at it, they'll pull the plug on this idiotic idea.
McDonalds really blew it this time.
brewens
(13,589 posts)What are known as our leads were instructed to have team meetings prior to blood drives to make sure everythig was squared away. Our lead thought we should, to finish the meeting, all form a circle, stack hands in the middle and, I can't remember what the cheer was supposed to be.
I called bullshit and refused and had another dissenter join me. I just said, "sorry, this isn't Walmart, I don't need a morning cheer session", and went back to my station to get started. There were other people around that would have seen that. I wasn't loud so they didn't hear what I said but would have seen us do the little cheer. I saved them all from humiliating themselves.
get the red out
(13,466 posts)It is just wrong on so many levels. The workers should NOT be required to participate in stupidity like that and customers shouldn't either, though I would definitely be a spoilsport, and with a big frown on my face. I don't do what others tell me when I've got NOTHING on the line. The poor employees have jobs on the line. Fuck McDonalds.
Years ago, a company I worked for brought in some outside consultants to have some kind of teamwork seminar. We were asked to write down our favorite music, movies, things such as that. Then we were required to go around the room and reveal these things. I would simply say "I don't like music", "I don't watch movies". I participated as little as possible. I am a very private person with an obsessive fear of being humiliated by others. No one has the right to force me to behave in a way that is, what I consider, beneath the dignity of adults.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)I went on Monday, and had no idea about this - didn't watch the Superbowl and don't watch commercials generally. So when I ordered for my meal, and prepared to pay, they asked me, 'are you paying with lovin?' I was like, huh? So they explained the promotion and I said how do I do that? She suggested I call someone and tell them I love you, or even give the cashier a high-five - so I gave a high-five, and the meal was on McDonald's.
Not sure what the harm there was, but it saved me $6, and that's a loaf of bread, a dozen eggs and some green onions.
TygrBright
(20,760 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)"Hug your child!! That just died in the hospital down the street, and you stopped here because you've refused to leave their bedside for two days and are starving."
libodem
(19,288 posts)A friend of mine worked on a cardiac floor. One of her supervisors told her that she needed to take that 'worried look off her face' while she was racing up and down the hallways.
It's hard to smile and look good while being stressed out from constant understaffing and stressful conditions.
JohnnyRingo
(18,635 posts)What works so well in the controlled environment of a commercial, is iffy at best in the real world.
Imagine, as in the commercial, the worker asks a customer to "call your mom". In my case, she's deceased. In many other cases that seemingly good natured request could trigger emotional distress that Mickey Dees never saw coming in the TV spot.
I already made up my mind that if I were put on the spot by hapless counter workers, that I'd tell them to pass it on behind me, regardless the nature of their stupid request. I literally don't want to sing or dance for my supper, and if I'm at McDonalds, it's because I can afford to pay for a rotgut burger & fry without performing stunts for the amusement of other customers.
Demanding minimum wage employees choreograph a commercial stunt filmed under controlled conditions in real life is incredibly clueless. What are they, cruise ship directors? Someone should be taken out of the corporate decision making process for what has to be the stupidest idea by an overcompensated executive ever. Well, except maybe for New Coke.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)melm00se
(4,993 posts)in and of itself, its the execution that can be problematic. the staff should be instructed not to push it if the customer doesn't want to participate.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Pay your fucking employees a living wage, though, and you wouldn't need mandatory spontaneous demonstrations. There would be plenty of actual joy, and it would be contagious.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)They must've somehow ended up with 12 extreme extroverts/former cheerleaders running their marketing operations who can't even comprehend how unpleasant this would be for most people.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I would hate that.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Raise the roof
aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)CreekDog
(46,192 posts)you're the only other person to not express disapproval.
aikoaiko
(34,170 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 6, 2015, 10:59 PM - Edit history (1)
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It creates a sort of chicken egg thing, are they jerks because they're underpaid (which is wrong), or are they underpaid because they're jerks?
I'm all for a $20 minimum wage, with benefits.
But I'm also for doing your best no matter what the pay, because it's the right thing to do.
You and I might be alone on this side of the issue, aikoaiko.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)to being churlish?
Odd leap you're making there.
I'm not a regular customer of any fast food place, but I occasionally go into convenience stores. Always been greeted nicely. Same when I have gone into the fast food places. Never been greeted with "eye rolls."
You must have had some really bad experiences.
I treat the staff with respect, and I always get it back. They always smile too. But so do I.
Something for all of us to ponder. This "lovin" thing is utter nonsense. It is humiliating to the staff, and I would be horrified if it happened to me as a customer.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)But I'm generally polite to everyone I meet in a public setting.
Good manners are important.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)Who are prevented by massive corporate money from unionizing or showing resistance in any way? Who are beaten down by this year after year, struggling to live on an unlivable wage?
Shame on you.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Demit
(11,238 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Dumb, dumb idea, imo.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)if all I had to do was fist-bump the cashier....fine with me. Calling my mom, um, sorry, she's dead. I totally get why others are disapproving. This campaign would NOT have been my first choice if I was brainstorming, but hey, maybe it won't be so bad overall. At least a "lovin" thing breaks up the soul-crushing monotony of a work-day, and the customer can always refuse (and most probably will). If I was in a hurry or a bad mood, etc, I'd just fork over my credit card and get the f*** outta dodge.
Yes, of course, McDonald's and all lower-wage places need to pay a living wage, good benefits, and treat their employees with dignity and respect. If I was the manager, I would not force anyone to do this. If no one was ok with it, I hope I'd have the guts to tell the district manager that it was a complete flop.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)Brigid
(17,621 posts)I didn't know about the promotion either. No stupid floor show, no dancing -- J just got my food, ate it, and left. Maybe that store manage thought it was a lame idea too.
raven mad
(4,940 posts)And some idiot decides he wants to dance?
Another reason not to McD's.............
Blue Owl
(50,393 posts)n/t
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)sendero
(28,552 posts)... start tripping on their dingus' in a desperate attempt to retain their position.
There are two simple reasons for McD's troubles and anyone can see them.
1) the economy
2) the food
They are at least paying lip service that they understand that people are growing uninterested in eating buns that look, feel and taste like foam rubber, and meat patties with cellulose.
Whether they can actually effect the changes needed remains to be seen.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)right in front of the customer but that would slow down their service a lot so some hybrid of both made-to-order and off the rack may be what they do next.
Six quarters is a long time. The chain told investors this week it is taking the next year and a half to regroup after sales continued to slide in the recent quarter and such competitors as fast-growing Chipotle Mexican Grill (CMG) seem to be leaving the burger leader behind. In McDonalds case, however, the repositioning wont necessarily involve the typical hallmarks of a rebrand, such as a new logo or total design overhaul (a strategy Olive Garden (DRI) has taken), but will instead focus on reworking the basics: better value, service, marketing, and menu. Why else would it plan to start serving sustainable beef in 2016 and add more fruit and vegetable options?
http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2014-07-23/mcdonalds-to-embark-on-rebranding-initiative-over-next-18-months
MindPilot
(12,693 posts)But yeah, the worst thing about something like this is that you come to realize that a group of people sat around a table and decided it was a good idea.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)This sounds like a new "cause" for lawsuits and the like.
To be sure, the McDonalds idea is pathetic and stupid, but the Bryce Covert has take it to a new level of WTF.
Emotional Labor, why it's almost as bad as slavery!
Instead of fussing around with assigned tasks, lets just get right to the point: pay these workers a living wage.
And put away stupid ideas like "emotional labor". Good Grief!
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)I agree. But easier said than done, when a corporation doesn't want to lose a single penny of their billions in profits.